Grill: Struggling with anxiety during Valium withdrawal

[Grill]

Currently trying to withdraw from Valium and really struggling with anxiety. I'm down at 5.62mgs.I'm doing a daily micro taper which is getting ridiculously slow. Started taking 10 mgs of Citralopram about 4 months to pick me up and help me with anxiety. It's does nothing though when Valium withdrawal hits. Wondering should I quit it as I don't want to get hooked on another drug? Can I quit it now as I'm on Valium? If so how do I go about it? Is there anything else that helps with anxiety?

[AliG]

Hello Grill. You've done well in your tapering of Valium however if you've been on Citalopram for 4 months that is enough to get your brain well and truly wrapped around it and therefore you would be wise to taper slowly if you want to step off. We can help with that. 

Brain Remodelling

 

We advise a gentle taper of no more than 10 % of current dose per month, depending on symptoms.

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Perhaps, given that Valium is more sedating and therefore acts as a brake, it might be wise to hold there for a while as you start to taper the Citalopram which is equally, if not more troublesome.

The recommendation here is to taper one drug at a time. 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

Magnesium and fish oil supplements are extremely beneficial in withdrawal and are recommended. They may help with anxiety.

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

These links will help to explain the withdrawal process :

What is withdrawal syndrome?

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

Healing from antidepressants. Patterns of recovery/

 

If you can learn to manage your anxiety as you taper off, it will set you up to be ultimately drug free for the future. There are many natural ways of coping with anxiety. This thread has lots of ideas.

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Thanks for filling in your signature. This is your thread to journal your progress, record symptoms, talk to other members and ask questions. Please read the links and come back with any other questions you may have.

Welcome to S.A.

Ali

[Grill]

Hi there and thanks a million for all that info. To be honest I can see it taking years for me to get off valium. I was hoping that I could come off Cit quicker because I hadn't been on it long. So which to do first! I thought the fact I was on Valium would have helped with the Cit symptoms. And I take it I can't do 2 at once.

[AliG]

Grill . That's right. As I said , stay where you are with the Valium. It will help to temper the withdrawal symptoms from the Citalopram. Taper that gently as recommended by no more than 10 % of current dose. Please read the links above.

 

In the meantime , look at the other ways of dealing with the anxiety . There are many and varied natural ways of dealing with this problem. Many find meditation/ deep breathing / yoga and guided meditations helpful.

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Ali

[Grill]

Sorry for being a pest. Do you think I'm better to get off the Cicitalopram first instead of the Valium?

[bubble]

Hello Grill and welcome to SA from me too.

 

Thank you for filling in your signature. In order to get a better understanding of your situation I would appreciate information on how long you were on Valium (when did you start taking it?) Also when did you start tapering? Have you been on any drugs before Valium?

 

I'd like to have this information because they can do a certain extent explain why we need to taper longer. If somebody, like me, was on a drug for 16 years it will take me very long to come off because the brain will need a lot of time to reverse the changes which ocurred in the presence of the drug.

 

We don't advocate for making cuts every day (especially if they are not followed for at least periodical holds because a lot of the withdrawal symptoms don't manifest themselves from one day to the next.

 

The best way to manage withdrawal anxiety is to slow down the taper. Anxiety is the way in which our brain is telling us that it doesn't like what is happening and that it can't keep up. It's a plea for help and a warning to stop. I'm very happy to read that you have decided to do a few month hold. (Listen to your body rule actually says hold for as long as the symptoms reduce to the level at which you can endure symptoms which will follow a cut with relative ease).

 

Adding other drugs to mitigate withdrawal symptoms which are a result of a too fast taper is a bad idea. As you could see it doesn't help with the symptoms because you continue to injur your brain further. In addition, you end up being on 2 drugs (or more) instead of 1. Although citalopram hasn't been doing anything, removing it after 4 month use will cause withdrawal symptoms. If they are to come to the central nervous system already severely destabilised through a too fast taper of a benzo these symptoms might be very nasty and might make you quite dysfunctional for quite some time. Sorry if this sounds like I'm trying to scare you. It's just that we read so many painful stories all the time here and I wouldn't like you to be one of them.

 

If I were you I would stop tapering anything. That is, in addition to your decision to hold on Valium taper I wouldn't reduce Citalopram until your symptoms reduce. We don't know how long that might be but it is very encouraging that you are thinking in terms of months rather than weeks.  

 

The link Ali provided for you is great to help us understand what is happening with our brains on drugs and while tapering so I'm repeating it once again:Brain Remodelling

 

We advise getting of antidepressants first and leaving benzos to help with withdrawal but I repeat starting a taper in your situation would be ill advised. (regardless of how short you were on a drug. And 4 months is not such a short time

 

Once you stabilize it is possible to you will be able to taper by more than 10 % or more frequently but the only judge of that is your brain. If you start getting symptoms you will know you are tapering too fast.

 

You will get off the drugs successfully but it might take longer than you thought. Tapering slowly enables us to stay functional while tapering and avoid suffering which can be really bad.

 

Let us know if you have more questions and sorry for all the bad news.

 

Bubble

[Grill]

Hi, 

 

I ahev been double posting so i thought i would put all info in here

 

"Hi Bubble. I was on Clonazepam 1mg for 2 years for a sleep disorder. I CT'D off it because I didn't know any better. Was put on 10 mgs of Valium in January. Again was tapered off too fast by my doctor. Managed to stay off 2 weeks before I had to reinstate. Then I started microtapering and got down to 3.6mgs but was completely miserable. My father intervened and I moved back up to 6 mgs a few months ago. Have had a manic year. Got burgled, bought another house, met my fiance so I've sort of been through the mill. Patience hasn't been my biggest friend. Now I'm resigned to the fact that could take years. And I'm worried that when I beat Valium I'll have further years of trying to beat Cit. Thanks Sean"

 

"So the million dollar question is which is worse for you? Cit or Valium? There seem to be a lot more people on AD than Valium. I was always lead to believe that if you can beat Benzos then AD is a cake walk! 

Now I'm at a crossroads. Do I stop coming off Valium to come off Cit which in theory could take at least 10 months. Or continue trying to get off Valium. 
There seems to be more work going into SSRI than benzos so maybe more hope in the future for better new drugs? 
Anyway I don't know. Gonna enjoy my month of stability! 
Sean"

 

"Ok. So realistically I'm looking at 10 months to come off the Citalopram? 

Thanks 
Sean"

 

FINALLY - Im getting married in Feburary and would be hoping to start a family. Is there any evidence that being on this drug could affect my fertility?

 

Thank you. 

Sean
 

[Grill]

Hi there, 

 

Just to update. 

 

I started dropping 10% there about 14 days ago. 

 

I have had no symptoms at all up until today. 

 

Have had a hard day at work with confrontation and have been feeling slightly anxious all day.

 

Tinnitus is quite loud as well. 

 

Is this the normal time frame for symptoms or would my anxiety be coming from something else. How long does this usually last?

 

I have been caffiene free and sugar free this last few weeks but since I have been feeling fine I have been eating licourice this last 3 nights. 

 

I'm still able to go to work ok but today is the first noticeable day of anxiety. 

 

Sleep has been unaffected. 

 

Thanks

 

Sean

[ChessieCat]

Some of these links were posted previously but I'm adding some more:

 

1. The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization
2. Brain Remodelling
3. Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery
4. What is Happening in Your Brain
5. Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms
6. Fear, terror, panic, and anxiety
7. Yoga for calming (very simple poses can help greatly)

It's important to learn non-drug techniques for coping so that you don't feed the anxiety by becoming fearful:

 

1. Acceptance
2. Acceptance and Mindfulness
3. Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

Keep daily notes of symptoms on paper so that you can see if there is a pattern and notice improvements and/or worsening of symptoms.

[Grill]

Cheers Cheesie, 

 

Yeah I'm working my way through a mindfullness acceptance book at the minute. 

 

Im also keeping a daily journal as you say to keep an eye on symptoms. 

 

I just thought i would have been hit by now as I'm on Day 14. 

 

Suppouse you just have to face whats in front of you. 

 

Sean

[bubble]

Hello again Grill.

 

I have also started my AD taper and today is day 12 for me. I didn't feel any effect of the cut for the first 8 days. It seems I even felt a bit better than before the cut. I felt a big surge in anxiety on day 9 and now 12 days into the cut things are still very uncomfortable and I'm struggling. So what you are describing matches my experience and a lot of what I have read. That's why we advise people against too frequent cuts: it takes time for the symptoms to manifest themselves.

 

I tapered Xanax before this and after the first few cuts I got familiar with the WD symptoms. I knew when they would appear and how long they would last. Also if they were too intense I would cut less and hold longer. I think that we will also get into the swing of things once we have made a few cuts and get familiar with how our brain reacts to them. The first cut is always the most challenging. I hope for both of us that our 'nervous system accommodation' won't take long.

 

And we always have an option to reduce by less next time. It would be good to update your signature with your recent change. Good luck!

[Grill]

Hi Platinum, 

 

Yeah i was hoping to get away a lot easier with this as I have done with Valium. 

 

I'm holding at 5.6 mgs Val until i can get off the Cit. 

 

I've only been on Cit about 4 months. 

 

I'm trying my very best to accept the anxiety for what it is. Just an effect of the drug and not real life. 

 

Did you manage to taper completely off xanax? I hear that is very difficult. 

 

Its all difficult for me to be honest. 

 

Although this anxiety isnt anywhere near as bad as the Valium anxiety,

 

G

 

P.S. I tried magnesium but it ramped my symptoms up through the roof. Mind you i was taking 800mgs in one go,. 

[bubble]

I'm also always hoping it would be easier than it is... Since you have been on Citalopram for a short time one would really think that would be the case. But once our brain gets sensitised by one drug things just get more difficult.

 

However you have every reason to be optimistic. I'm not off Xanax yet. still quite a long way to go (at 0.64 mg). But once I found the right speed I was actually feeling better despite temporary WD upheavals.

 

I believe this will be your case too. We can have fairly good lives while still tapering and enjoying the benefits of an ever increasing dose.

 

It is difficult and we should keep giving ourselves credit for everything we are going through. Maybe you could try a lower dose of magnesium. I'm taking 200 mg of magnesium glycinate several times a day.

[Grill]

Sorry Bubble, 

 

I called you platinum!

 

Yeah its very frustrating as I'm generally fine when i hold.

 

Then i start dropping again and all the fears of anxiety rear their head again. 

 

I'm reading a book on accepting anxiety but as you know when youre in the midst of it all it hard to stay focused. 

 

I'm afraid to try magnesium again after what it did to me the last time. 

 

Can I also ask you are you doing dual tapers i.e tapering both drugs at once? 

 

I thought that was frowned upon? 

 

S

[bubble]

My brain is such a mush that I didn't notice platinum at all

 

Just a while ago I noticed that I wrote holder long (instead of longer hold..)

 

What you wrote about holding, fears of anxiety and acceptance is exactly how I feel (and all of us I believe). Technically speaking I  don't know if what I'm doing would be a dual taper: I brought Xanax from 2 mg to 0.64, held for 9 months and now taper the AD.

 

Last year I tried to squeeze in two small AD cuts into my Xanax taper and that might have been what caused my horrible crash. So there is a reason why this approach is frowned upon. Alto wrote something about that in, I think, which drug to taper first...  

[Grill]

Ah right. 

 

That makes more sense now. 

 

So you've put you Xanax taper on hold to taper of your AD? 

 

Are you staying on the Xanax to help you with the AD taper? 

 

That's essentially what I'm doing though not through choice!

 

Its the Valium that's eating away at me but the Cit has killed my libido. 

 

My anxiety has eased now this afternoon. 

 

God knows why. 

 

I always get it bad in the morning and for the last few days it had just been lasting a few hours longer each time. 

 

Nothing else to do but run with it or stick and hold. 

 

Throughout this journey the amount of people I have found who are "blatantly" taking AD's and completely oblivious to the effects is scary. 

 

When i ask them would they not consider stopping they just say well why would i bother considering stopping. I can just stop taking them when i want. 

 

Scary scary thing!

 

Sean

[Grill]

Anxious again today. 

 

Anyone know how long this lasts generally before it smooths out again? 

Sean

[bubble]

It's very individual and even for the same person doesn't take the same each time because there are so many other factors involved.

 

But since it is your first cut, you will get to know your pattern for future cuts. As I wrote before, my experience with tapering Xanax was pretty predictable: I would start feeling a cut after day 3,  then things would be uncomfortable from day 3 to 6 and than they would start decreasing. But I was making very small cuts every 10 days at that time. If you cut more that pattern will look differently. 

 

This post has helped me a lot to get an idea of what is happening with our brains when we taper and why things happen in the way they do: why it takes time for withdrawal symptoms to appear, why we have to hold, etc.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1160-brain-remodeling/

[Grill]

How are you feeling today?

[bubble]

Thanks fro asking I was hoping to feel better by day 14 after what I thought was a small cut. In a similar way to you: anxiety is still quite high. There are brief periods throughout the day when I feel clearer in my head but in general I feel very wobbly in a way that is hard to put into words. I feel very fragile and vulnerable, like I just want to crawl into a hole and groan.  This morning I felt so light headed that I thought I might just faint. My energy and motivation to do things are low and I feel awfully tired.

 

I also wonder like you: what is this, how long will it last, will it get worse... Then I just repeat to myself: this is WD. It will pass. Although I don't quite believe it. I know this not being able to believe that it will pass is also a symptom of WD...

 

What has improved is that I haven't had those terror like attacks of anxiety in the middle of the night (and for that I'm deeply grateful). I look forward to the weekend and hope for further improvements.

 

And what are your symptoms (except for anxiety)?

 

(it's better to put a date of the reduction in your signature because after a while 14 days ago or yesterday lose quite a bit of the meaning

[Grill]

Hi, 

 

Anxiety is the main one. 

 

My sleep has been effected the last few nights. 

 

Woke up at 3 am the night before and 5 am this morning. 

 

I actually had to go and close my eyes for 10 minutes in the work toilets earlier.

 

I don't really have any other physical symptoms. Maybe a tiny bit of nausea but thats probably from the anxiety. 

 

I'm like you a get brief glimpses where i feel ok for about 10 mins but then the cloud appears again. 

 

Its the not knowing how long it will last is the killer.

 

If i knew i was going to feel like this for 4 days and then feel ok again I could handle it better. 

 

Do you work? I think it would be easier to handle if i didn't have to. 

 

Im saving up to get married so cant afford anytime off work which is adding further pressure. 

 

Vicious circle. 

 

And reading about how long it takes people to heal AFTER going through all this is putting me off wanting to stop all together.

 

Sean

[bubble]

Yes, I work, or lately just exist at work and often think it would be so much easier if I didn't have to. But then again, work provides us some distraction so that the time which is the only healer moves faster.

 

You have a much shorter and less complicated history than most of us here and have the knowledge of how to taper properly so that you don't have to go through what some other people are experiencing.

 

After this first cut you will know how long it takes you to stabilise after the cut so next time will be easier. Also if this experience has been too uncomfortable you may try to reduce by 5 % next time. It doesn't mean that the whole tapering would necessarily last longer because you might not have to hold as long.

 

This is the best time to practice acceptance and relaxation techniques. I use a site with free mindfulness exercises. You can do a body scan in 3, 5, 10, etc. minutes. I find it really helpful. It's equivalent to closing your eyes for 10 mins: www.calm.com

[Grill]

Thanks so much for your input. 

 

It seems we are peas in a pod. 

 

I go through such a range of emotions. 

 

I'm sat here now thinking if i can just ride this out for a few more days then its all harm reduction. Ill only be on 9 mgs of Cit which is a small dose compared to the millions on it. 

 

Same with the Valium. I'm on 5.58 mgs which is in the grand scheme of things isnt much.

 

Believe me I have made every mistake possible in the last 10 months,

 

CT of Clonazepam. Then did a too fast taper off Valium. Had to reinstate after 10 days.

 

I'm 41 years old and didn't expect life to be this difficult at this age. 

 

I'm terrible for trying to rush things through and putting timelines on things. 

 

And I tell myself the longer I'm on this the more damage I'm doing. 

 

As I think I said I'm only coming off this as it has killed my libido and ill want to start trying for a family next Feburary. 

 

What a time to pick to come off drugs eh!

 

Please stay int ouch and let me know how your symptoms are going? 

 

How would a 5% cut not take longer? If I have to wait 12 days for the symptoms to kick in? 

 

Thank you

 

Sean

[bubble]

I don't know if knowing that some people have it more difficult is any comfort but imagien you were a woman of 41 wanting to start a family (I'm over 39...)

 

We are all struggling with reframing our mind and accepting that we can't put timelines to this (and yet my favourite pastime as of late has become to calculate how long it will take me to reduce at different paces grrr)

 

I'm afraid I'm not going anywhere from here  I've been around for 3 years now and as bad as it is things would've been a lot, lot worse had I not found this community with all its collective wisdom and support.

 

5 % cuts will probably have less intense symptoms which will clear faster so the total tapering time shouldn't necessarily take longer. If that makes sense

[Grill]

Hi, 

 

Yeah i know things could be a lot worse. 

 

This might seem really strange but i took my shot of multi vitamins and Vit C at lunchtime and again things seem to have eased a bit. 

 

That was the same yesterday. Bad in the morning and then not too bad in the afternoon. 

 

Wonder should i try taking it first thing in the morning? 

 

I constantly spend time calculating how long it will take to get off and see where i can make up time!

 

Anytime I've done that its usually ended up costing me time. 

 

I've had so much happening in my life this last year that i often think i picked the wrong time to start trying. 

 

But i just try and tell myself even if i stop trying now I'm on so much less medication than i was before if that makes sense? 

 

So you reckon trying dropping down 5% every two weeks instead of the bigger bump down every month?

Sean

[rapunzel2]

 

 

As I think I said I'm only coming off this as it has killed my libido and ill want to start trying for a family next Feburary. 

 

 

 

Hello, Grill!

 

I'm also in a same boat, wanting to start a family. it does put pressure on withdrawing, doesn't it?

do you already have any children or this would be your first? Mine would be first. 

[Grill]

I don't have any kids already.

 

Hence I have no clue what pressure it will put on!

 

I would imagine the lack of sleep would be the biggest thing.

 

But sure that's part and parcel of withdrawing anyway so the two might go well together!

[Grill]

Hi, 

 

I'm a little brighter this morning but still tense if you know what I mean.

 

Again I don't really know what to be at. 

 

I have felt anxious for 5 days now and if today is me getting better then that's 5 days out of each month ill feel grim. 

 

Now I haven't missed any work and have cooked dinner and gone for runs but just been very quiet. My sleep hasn't been too bad either. 

 

And I haven't updosed either which is a positive. 

 

Most people would probably say I'm getting away easy but i cant tell you how much i dislike feeling anxious. 

 

I'm at a cross roads now.  I'm not sure whether to continue a mega slow valium taper and stick with the Cit or continue trying to get off the Cit. 

 

Im not sure which is doing me more damage if you know what i mean? 

 

Sean

[bubble]

Hi there.

 

I'm afraid to say so (for fear it will disappear) but it seems that I'm also doing better today with Friday being the apsolute low. Today is day 17 for me.

 

I might have some more suggestions for your situation if I knew a bit more about your drug history: how long have you been taking Valium and some timelines about how fast you have been reducing it, when did you stop the taper (how long was the hold)?

 

You are probably still struggling with Valium WD which is making you very sensitive to AD withdrawal. 10 % cuts shouldn't be felt so hard normally. You will be fine. There are a number of things you can do to reduce the discomfort: hold longer, cut smaller. For the reasons explained below I would taper the AD first. Especially since you have been taking it shorter and you are on a quite low dose of Valium now. Maybe you just started tapering too soon before your CNS has had time to recover from the benzo taper. Having more dates (approximate) in your signature would be helpful.

 

I will copy a part from the thread: taking multiple drugs? Which one to taper first?

 

 

Altostrata, on 04 May 2012 - 8:34 PM, said:

When you are taking an antidepressant and a benzo, if you are not having significant adverse effects from the benzo, consider tapering the antidepressant first for these reasons:

• Antidepressants are activating while benzos are sedating. The action of the benzo can soften the suffering from antidepressant withdrawal symptoms.
• Conversely, a concurrent antidepressant will not reduce withdrawal symptoms during a benzo taper. With all due respect, Prof. Heather Ashton's suggestion antidepressants might help is misguided, see http://survivinganti...dpost__p__14205
  
  In Dr. Stuart Shipko's e-book Xanax Withdrawal (2012), he addresses the Ashton Manual's apparent recommendation of antidepressants to counter benzo-withdrawal depression, see http://survivinganti...dpost__p__28759
• Often, benzos are prescribed to cover up adverse effects, such as anxiety, insomnia, and akathisia, from an antidepressant. When you remove the benzo, the antidepressant's adverse effects come to the forefront. You then may be in such distress, it is difficult to taper the antidepressant slowly enough to forestall severe withdrawal symptoms.
• Benzo withdrawal before antidepressant withdrawal increases the risk of a difficult antidepressant withdrawal.
  
  Going into an antidepressant taper with GABA downregulated by prior benzo withdrawal is a very perilous strategy. Your nervous system will need GABA to deal with antidepressant withdrawal symptoms.
  
  You may more easily control an antidepressant taper. Fast recovery from antidepressant withdrawal will enable you to tackle your benzo taper.
  
  The people who have the worst withdrawal syndrome are those suffering from both benzo withdrawal and antidepressant withdrawal, because two systems -- serotonin and GABA -- that might help them recover are not functioning due to downregulation.
• If you have already done the hard work of getting off a benzo and then suffer severe withdrawal syndrome from the antidepressant, you are faced with the decision of whether or not to get on the benzo merry-go-round again.
  
  Many doctors treat antidepressant withdrawal symptoms with benzos, although that brings in a whole other set of problems, which you know well. Still, many people can't get through withdrawal without an occasional benzo dose. Consider using benzos very, very sparingly.

And then there are antipsychotics...
To make this a little more confusing, if you are taking an antipsychotic, e.g. Seroquel or Risperdal, you may wish to discontinue that first, because of serious adverse health effects from antipsychotics, such as diabetes.

However, if you're taking an antipsychotic to counter an adverse effect of an antidepressant, such as sleeplessness or agitation, you may want to discontinue the antidepressant first.

Conceivably, one might systematically lower the antidepressant part way, then lower the antipsychotic. If sleep doesn't break up, continue to get off the antipsychotic. If it breaks up, stop lowering the antipsychotic, stabilize, and lower the antidepressant, managing the tapers in a way that preserves sleep.
 

[Grill]

Ok, 

 

Ill try and remember this as best i can. 

 

I was on 1 mg of clonazepam for about 2 years for a sleep disorder. Parasomnia. Basically sleep walking. 

 

Was merrily taking away at it until last November when i had a panic attack for a weekend at my brothers house. 

 

Decided it was the tablets fault so went to see my doctor. He told me to start taking 0.5 mgs of clonazepam for a month and start taking 20 mgs Cit at the same time.

 

I ignored this advice and rapidly tapered off clonazepam and went CT. Was in bed crying for 4 days just before Christmas. 

 

So the Doctor stuck me on 10 mgs of Valium in in December last year and told me to cut down 2 mgs every 2 weeks. 

 

I did this rigidly and thought i was home free at the start of Feb 2016. 

 

However the taper was much too fast and i stuck it out for 10 days and had to reinstate at 8 mgs a day. 

 

I then discovered liquid titration and at my peak had worked down to 3.6 mgs but was completely miserable to the point where my father intervened and made me go see a specialist. 

 

So back up to 8mgs (i think, cant remember at this stage) about 4 months ago and started on 10 mgs Cit at the same time. 

 

Was crashing and bashing back down on the Valium and eventually got my hands on liquid Valium. 

 

So I've been holding at 5.62mgs for the last month as i was going on holidays and then started my Cit taper. 

 

Oh and by the way this year and a bit i have

 

(1) Had my house broken into and had my car stolen. 

(2) Started a new relationship and got engaged.

(3) Bought another house and had to re do it all from scratch. 

(4) Work in a high pressure job with long hours. 

 

I used to drink an awful lot when i was younger and spent 20 years do all forms of recreational drugs. 

 

So if you figure out how to fix all that youre a good one!

 

Sean

[Grill]

P.S. 

 

No matter how grim I have felt in the last wee while I have managed not to updose anymore.

 

And i don't ever intend to either. 

[Grill]

For someone who runs an engineering department in pretty crap at making decisions aren't I! 

 

It's just confusing. You need Valium to help you come off Cit and Cit is suppoused to help with anxiety so should help with Valium withdrawal! 

 

I thought I could get off Cit quick and at least eliminate one drug. But it looks like that won't be the case. 

 

I've read a bit about Benzos causing alzeimers so that would be a worry. 

 

Then I read somewhere that Cit can make you infertile! 

 

But then hypothetically I could be off everything in 4 years! 

 

Suppouse I have to figure out what is more beneficial too me and what should I drop first. 

 

I really do value your opinion. 

 

If you were a relatively young man about to get married and try and start a family what would you do? 

 

 

Sean

[KarenB]

Hey Grill, just read through your thread and I see you are getting a lot of great help from other mods, so I'll leave the technical advise to them.  Instead I'll respond to this: 

If you were a relatively young man about to get married and try and start a family what would you do?

 

Regardless of which tapering priority you decide upon, make it an even bigger priority to build up your ability to cope.  Create for yourself a nest of tools and skills which can carry you when things get rough.  The book you are reading about acceptance is a great start.  Keep adding to it, because with a complex situation such as w/d, one tool is usually not enough.  Weave yourself a whole nest of tools and you can shelter in it when you need to. 

 

And happily, those same skills will be very useful in strengthening a new marriage and family. 

[Grill]

Hi Karen,

 

Many thanks for your kind words. Out of curiosity what sort of tools do you mean so I know what to be looking at?

 

Thanks

 

Sean

[bubble]

There are lots of ideas on this thread. There was a reason of of us started taking these drugs so coming off of them is not going to do the trick of making them all go away. We have to learn to manage our anxiety in a different way. Pains of withdrawing are a great motivator to do that.

 

 

 

If you can learn to manage your anxiety as you taper off, it will set you up to be ultimately drug free for the future. There are many natural ways of coping with anxiety. This thread has lots of ideas.

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

[Grill]

Thanks bubble. 

 

I'm at a cross roads now. 

 

Whether to lose the Valium or the AD. 

 

I'm not sure which is doing me more harm. 

 

You have been tapering both. 

 

Apparently AD's are less damaging in the long run? 

 

Thanks a million for all your help and input. 

 

G