nityananda: Zoloft

[nityananda]

Thanks so much for finding and posting this very important article!

After being hit badly several times increasing dose myself, and reading others being severely harmed by reinstating, I tried to spread the word of the danger of reinstating. I'm so glad this has been acknowledged by experts and I believe this very important knowledge will save many from suffering.

 

I actually read it many years ago before my wrong doing increasing doses, unfortunately I didn't quite understand it well. Hard lessons learned for me but hopefully others won't have to go through the same route.

 

Link to above quote:  james-heaney-article-on-what-to-expect-in-restatement

 

Hello LexAnger, I'm considering myself to go up with a dose, because of my withdrawal symptoms I'm suffering for 4 months now, since my last taper. I was waiting to stabilize but seems I feel worse with every day. Maybe my anxiety mimicall that pains and shaking and spasms.. I'm confused. I feel stuck. I was on Zoloft 50 mg for 12 years, beside xanax. I started to taper Zoloft february, last year.. This year in april was my last taper and I'm on 8mg since then and feeling awful. Why do you think its not good to go up with dose ? Someone else its so very welcome to answer also. Thank you.  

Edited August 17, 2016 by ChessieCat
Added link to quoted text & added drug tags

[ChessieCat]

Hi nityananda, and welcome to SA.  You have come to the right place for information, support and advice about tapering and withdrawal symptoms.

 

I have moved your post and created your own Intro/Update topic.  You can ask questions about your own situation here and use it as a journal of your progress.  Click "Follow" top right and you will be notified when someone responds.

 

When people join SA we ask all members to Please put your Withdrawal History in Signature.  Please provided details for the last year to 18 months and a summary of anything prior to that.  Please include ALL drugs, dates and doses and how you decreased/increased (that is, did you skip doses, alternate doses, cold turkey).  Please also remember to update your signature whenever you make a change so it remains current.  This way your history will be easily seen at a glance.  Providing the drug history helps us to make suggestions based on your individual situation.

 

Once we have some more details we will be able to make a suggestion about what (small) dose you might be able to take (that is updose) if that is what you decide to do.  Please DO NOT take the same dose that you were taking when you dropped your dose to 8 mg in April because your brain will have made some adjustments during the time you have been on the lower dose.

 

QUESTIONS:  How do you measure your dose to get 8 mg?

 

It is very important to take an accurate dose at approximately the same time each day.

 

I'm going to provide some links to information which I suggest you read and then you can ask any questions here in your topic:

 

Introduction to AD Withdrawal Syndrome

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Symptoms Checklist

 

Brain Remodelling (Rhi's Description of Brain Healing)

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Tips for tapering off Zoloft (sertraline)

 

It may seem a bit overwhelming when you first come to SA and get all the information, but the links I have listed contain very helpful information.
 

[nityananda]

Thank you very much. I added most of the things in my signature just now. The thing is that since april, especially past two months I have very high anxiety, muscle spasms, lightheadedness, panic attacs, health anxiety, agoraphobia ( semi), mood swings, jittery feeling, dizziness, weakness, chest pain.jaw tension, acid reflux, heart pounding, loss of period,weight loss, decreased appetite, lips twitching, skin rash....etc. Every day something new.. when one symptom subside, other come to the surface.. and they are gong in circle for 4 months now. Cannot descriminate anymore which is from WD, what is because of anxiety.. But I never had these symptoms before taking those meds--just mild anxiety and panic attacs. 

 

I become so obsessed with these symptoms and I'm afraid of them. Like they will never stop. I'm seeing psychologist and she said that WD symptoms made me too afraid and anxious.  psychiatrist says that cannot be all WD. I forgot to tell in previous post that first part of tapering I was listening to him, even if he thought that taper can go faster.. after 20 mg I started to have symptoms and continue to taper without his advices..just seeing psychologist and homeopath. 

 

I'm using jewelry scale to measure meds..we do not have liquid form of Zoloft here.

 

Chest and neck  pain are very persistant.. 1-2 months now..and jaw pain. Constant. I did cardio, gastro..blood tests.. they turned out ok. 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Nausea,especially morning, Iritability, Insomnia,Ear clogged, Ringing ears, Eyes twitching , Itchy skin, Brain zaps, Headaches, Sweating, Anger - those subsided. 

 

I cannot take supplements.. omega 3 sent my anxiety to the sky.. Chest and neck pains bothers me very much..and fatique too.. cannot do yoga or exercise like I was doing all the way till may.. 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, nityananda.

 

What times of day do you take your drugs, and what dosages? Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern? Please keep daily notes on paper of your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages.

 

Have your symptoms changed since your last dosage decrease in April?

[nityananda]

Thank you.

 

I take my meds the very moment I wake up. Sometimes 7, sometimes 8.. 9am last alarm.

 

I take Zoloft 8mg + xanax 0,25 morning, noon 0,25mg xanax, 4-5 pm 0,25 xanax, 8-9pm0, 25 xanax.

 

No, they do not. they can be all present in the morning and throug all day, sometimes just one all day.. (rarely), sometimes morning fine, then afternoon few symptoms.. no pattern.

 

Yes, they changed.. Some old one subsides like I wrote above, some new one came.. some subside and then appear again.. 

[Altostrata]

When do you have nausea in the morning? Is it when you delay taking Zoloft?

 

How are you sleeping? How long have you been taking Xanax?

[nityananda]

"Nausea,especially morning, Iritability, Insomnia,Ear clogged, Ringing ears, Eyes twitching , Itchy skin, Brain zaps, Headaches, Sweating, Anger - those subsided."

 

 

I mentioned those symptoms which subsided. I do not have nausea anymore. Sometimes I do, but not every day like before.

 

Xanax 12 yrs. I wrote everything about it in my signature. 

 

I'm seeping OK . Not the best..but better. I do not have insomnia anymore.

[Altostrata]

You're still having withdrawal symptoms from reducing Zoloft too fast. You might try taking 9mg Zoloft and see if that helps.

 

As you are also taking Xanax, it's very important that you keep notes on paper about your daily dosing and symptom pattern.

 

Are you taking any other drugs? Please put ALL the drugs you take in the Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html
and copy and paste the results in this topic.
 

[nityananda]

Ok. I will try. No I do not take any other drug. Thank you. 

[Altostrata]

Please let us know how you are doing.

[nityananda]

Of course, I will update you. Thank you.

[nityananda]

Hi Altostrata, I went up with dose for 1mg..three  days ago.. Symptoms are still here: high anxiety, chest pain and tightness, muscle spasms, jittery feeling, weakness, neck pain, back pain, panic attacs,acid reflux, dizziness, cannot go out in this condition..morever cannot do anything much at home either..

 

How long should I wait to notice the difference due updosing?

 

Tnx 

[oops44]

How long should I wait to notice the difference due updosing?

 

it takes a minimum of 4 days for your body to register a dosage change. conventional wisdom here on this site is to expect to wait 4-8 days before you begin to feel the effects of a dosage change 

 

I become so obsessed with these symptoms and I'm afraid of them.

 

what i am about to recommend to you can be one of the most difficult parts of recovery from withdrawal to understand and apply so try to keep an open mind because i believe it can also be one of the most effective things you can do for yourself - if at all possible try not to obsess over your symptoms. i have noticed that almost without variation the people who recover the most efficiently and completely are the people who can accept their situation and maintain a positive attitude in the face of adversity. obviously that is easier said than done but the effort pays dividends.

 

these links were given to me and i found them extremely helpful. on the surface none of these links will appear to address any of your physical symptoms, however it is my belief that most of your physical symptoms stem from your high anxiety. these links address that. i hope they are of some use to you.

 

Acceptance

Acceptance and Mindfulness

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

Change cognitive framing - Redirect - Another Way

 

and my personal favorite - Non-drug Techniques to Cope with Emotional Symptoms  

 

what are your thoughts on meditation? if you can pull it off it can be immensely helpful. here is a short one to get your feet wet - https://www.youtube....h?v=obYJRmgrqOU

 

i find that obsessing over symptoms has a snowballing effect on them. thinking about them is natural and healthy as you try to find ways to overcome them, however constant rumination has a detrimental effect and can cause one to begin focusing more on the negative aspects of your situation which can cause you to stagnate. forward is the direction we all want to go and obsession isn't usually conducive to that end.

 

i realize your concern is probably more focused on finding the "just the right dose" that will stabilize you, and that is a valid concern. if you can get yourself into a mindset where you are comfortable with yourself then the amount of milligrams you are taking will become less important than the consistency with which you take those milligrams. amount of medication, symptoms, stabilization, and your perception of it all are intertwined in such a way that they feed off of each other. sometimes its hard to tell which comes first: the remission of symptoms, or the cure. sometimes it doesn't happen in the order you think it would.

 

of course i could be completely wrong about my assessment of your situation and maybe even be projecting my own situation onto yours. if that is so take everything i said with a grain of salt. even so its definitely something to consider.

 

a recommendation: find intro threads on this site that are positive in nature and stick to them. avoid the doom and gloom for the time being. everyone knows the saying "you are what you eat" and the same goes for what you read.

[ChessieCat]

Oops, you took the words right out of my mouth!!!

 

Not really, but you've explained it very well.

 

Nityananda, when we reduce the drug, our brain needs to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  This takes time and patience.  It is simple but hard to do.  I believe that when we worry and focus on the symptoms that our brain diverts its attention to deal with the anxiety.  This means that it isn't able to do what it needs to do to adapt so it may take longer.

[nityananda]

Oops and ChessieCat, thank you. Thank you very much. I will wait some more to see how it goes.

 

Yes, I know that you are right, and it is not that you just projecting your situation. I was able to calm myself down in some previous months during the taper, but somehow during this longer pause (4 months) and due to syptoms persistance I become anxious like never before. And symptoms become bigger and so many new ones arised. 

 

I was able to meditate before, practice yoga, mindfulness meditations too .. body scan for introduction.. and all that daily..regularly.. than going to walks..listening some calm meditative music, eat healthy, socialise.. then symptoms become worse and worse and I become so anxious.. almost completely agoraphobic and symptoms become even worse. Every day something new came up. And somehow I stopped practising acceptance and just observing, but started to freaking out .

 

I do not know anymore how to break that cycle.  I am so desperate. I am so very tired of all this sensations. I'm trying to go out.. but that become hard for me. I'm freelancer and do not have to go out to work. 

 

I don't know is it normal that anxiety is so intense in past few weeks, that I cannot move my neck or hands for days..how muscles become sore in the first minute of panic attack. 

 

Before, I used to have panics everywhere.. on the street..in the car..etc. pushed through it and engaged the day. Now I cannot move my neck for hours. I'm scared to go anywhere because of it. Today I got new symptom on top everything. Burning in my feet/ fingers. Now I am scared that is something serious... 

 

Is there anyway to break that cycle and to make yourself to get of that vicious loop. I want to meditate or do yoga.. but I just cannot make myself to do that anymore. Like I lost hope, will, strength.. mental strentgth.. 

 

Thank you guys in advance. 

[ChessieCat]

Other members have discussed this here: burning-skin-burning-feet

 

Here's another link which might be helpful:  Neuro Emotions

[nityananda]

Other members have discussed this here: burning-skin-burning-feet

 

Here's another link which might be helpful:  Neuro Emotions

Thank you. I will check out those links. 

[oops44]

Is there anyway to break that cycle and to make yourself to get of that vicious loop.

 

there is. study those who have been in similar situations. read everything.

 

after boning up on negative cycles myself, i have noticed certain trends. it seems that whether you be a drug or gambling addict, stay in a bad relationship, experience ptsd, or even suffer antidepressant withdrawal - all deal with negative cycles and all require the sufferer to break the cycle before seeing relief. read about them all and then try to apply the lessons they learned to your own situation.

 

and then read some more. arm yourself with all the information you can. read about cognitive behavioral therapy (cbt). read about the experiences others have had with it. Best CBT techniques for anxiety, depression, or getting through a wave? if you decide its something you want to look further into there are Free online Cognitive Behavior Therapy lessons.

 

read everything this site has to offer, but don't stop there. click links, google unfamiliar terms, and follow up on every datum to its conclusion.

 

read everything you can find even remotely related to your situation. talk with people on this site about what you read, then read and read again and with any luck eventually something will stick - your "aha!" moment. its different for everyone, this elusive moment, and entirely yours. be a student of it.

 

all the best to you

[nityananda]

Thank you so very much oops44, thank you. I pm you.

 

Dear Alto, just a quick update and question. 

 

I still cannot stabilize myself after 1mg updosing.. So anxious.. having panic attacs.. all symptoms like in my last update. I called my psychiatrist. <he is suggesting to  updose Zoloft from 10mg to 25mg . He said that maybe I need different therapy and that we will talk over, but until then to updose to 25mg. That is something totally different from what I am reading here in reinstating topics.. updosing actually.. Its been 5months now since my last taper. What should I do? Thanks

[ChessieCat]

Hi nityananda,

 

Please wait until one of the other mods responds before taking more of the drug.

[JanCarol]

Hey Nityananda, I am sorry you are struggling - 

 

cannot do yoga or exercise like I was doing all the way till may.. 

 

Maybe you cannot do strenuous yoga, but everyone can do restorative yoga:

 

I've also been studying stress response, and exercise with these qualities, improves your stress response:
1.  Strengthen core muscles, improves communication between adrenal glands and cerebral cortex, and

2.  Coordinating breath with movement nourishes this connection.

 

You don't have to be able to do specific asanas to achieve this benefit.  Any coordination of breath and movement which strengthens your core (abdomen) will help your physical stress response.

 

Some old one subsides like I wrote above, some new one came.. some subside and then appear again.. 

 

Healing comes in Waves and Windows and symptoms change and morph over time.  You are still only a few months out from your drop to 8 mg - and congratulations on your gentle taper to there!  

 

I'm sorry that, even though you've been very careful, you are still struggling.

 

Now, the big question:

I still cannot stabilize myself after 1mg updosing.. So anxious.. having panic attacs.. all symptoms like in my last update. I called my psychiatrist. <he is suggesting to  updose Zoloft from 10mg to 25mg . He said that maybe I need different therapy and that we will talk over, but until then to updose to 25mg. That is something totally different from what I am reading here in reinstating topics.. updosing actually.. Its been 5months now since my last taper. What should I do? Thanks

 

Your last updose was 18-Aug, so you are on 9 mg now?  

 

I'm very afraid that if you updose to your psychiatrist's recommendation of 25 mg would be a serious shock to your system.

 

You see, the "perfect dose" is not always able to be found.  The hardest part of withdrawal is living through the symptoms long enough to heal and come out the other side.

 

When I went into this tapering process, I promised myself that I would not complain to my psychiatrist before 3 months of intense suffering.  Well, I never got there, but you have, and even so, 6 months of instability is not uncommon, even on a slow taper.

 

So I'm wondering about other factors.

 

What, in your life, do you need to change in order to live with your stress?  Our modern world drives us to work harder, longer, and faster - with no thought to our human needs.  What do you, as a human being, need?

 

Another factor - 95% of our serotonin is in our gut.  How is your digestion?  Your diet?

 

Another consideration - maybe dry cutting and weighing of your Zoloft is not as accurate as making your own liquid would be:  How to Make a Liquid from Tablets or Capsule and

 http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/235-using-an-oral-syringe-and-other-tapering-techniques/

 

You are sleeping through the night?  (awesome, if you still are, and that puts you well ahead of the pack!)

 

And the last question - I wonder if xanax is a complicating factor in your withdrawal.  You are, by now, acclimated to the xanax.  It worries me, as it has been there a long time, and it could be a factor complicating your Zoloft withdrawal.  I'm sure it is a comfort to you, and normally, we like to keep a benzo stable until the antidepressant is gone.  I am not a benzo expert, I only know little things:  like xanax has the shortest half-life.  You have a big break in between your 9 pm dose and your 9 am dose, and I wonder if it is destabilising.

 

I've referred this on to more benzo-smart moderators.  If you want to learn more, you can go to our Members Only Benzo Forum and read the information there, or start your intro thread there to ask questions.  

 

I may be wrong, but at this point, it is better to look at Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms and reduction of doses, than with re-drugging your problems.

 

(Prediction: if you try your psychiatrist's suggestion, you may only last one dose before realizing that it is too much.  It is not a "Zoloft deficiency" which is causing your symptoms, but your body trying to heal from the withdrawal of Zoloft - the trellis holding the roses is smaller than before, and the rose vine will reform, but it takes time)

[bubble]

Hello Nitya.

 

I believe you will find JanCarol's ideas and suggestions helpful.

 

I also wouldn't increase Zoloft by so much especially since you have been on a much lower dose for quite some time and some of your symptoms improved.

 

I have some more questions which could help us suggesting what to do:

 

How did you feel after increasing your dose? Did the symptoms stay the same, got worse, got better a bit but then got worse again? Any changes you noticed at all.

 

I can't remember it at the moment: how is your sleep? Do you wake up at night, have troubles falling asleep, wake up too early?

 

Would you say that your anxiety is worse in the morning when you wake up or does it maybe wake you up?

 

I hope that's not too may questions

[Wellness]

nityananda

 

welcome to SA.

 

I do not have experience with Zoloft withdrawal, only with benzodiazepines.  There are, however, some common practices to coming off these drugs.

 

If your symptoms are very severe and you want to increase the dose, then you want to start low and go slow.  Going from 10 to 25 mg is a very large dose increase.   Adding 1 mg at a time and waiting for the drug to take action is more sensible since that way you can find the absolute minimum dose that relieves your symptoms, but please do not act on my recommendation, it is only my opinion as I do not have experience with Zoloft.

 

Is there any possibility that the Xanax is causing you panic attacks.

 

One of the problems with Xanax is that it fluctuates very rapidly in the blood and when the levels get low, you can have withdrawal effects from Xanax withdrawal.  You say that you are taking 0.25 Xanax at approximately these times:  8 am, 12 noon, 4 pm, and 8pm.  You can see that there is a 12 hour period where the Xanax concentration can decrease a lot.

 

Here is a link to a benzodiazepine withdrawal document that is excellent.  It is available in many languages.

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/ashlangs.htm

[Altostrata]

As you are also taking Xanax, it's very important that you keep notes on paper about your daily dosing and symptom pattern.

 

 

What is your daily symptom pattern relative to when you take your drugs?

[nityananda]

Thank you very much for your replies. 

 

1.Yes, I can try to do restorative yoga 

 

2. My diet.. it was fine until 2 months ago,when I developed acid reflux and globus hystericus. Since then, I cannot eat properly..and I have heartburn, no matter what I eat.. Still trying to eat clean, but I eat a lot less than before.

 

3. My sleeping was fine til few days ago.. Now I sleep 5-6 hours max. 

 

4. Changing things in life- I work at home.. I am freelance graphic designer.. It is not stressful, but I cannot concentrate in past few months, so I barely work.. I do not socialise anymore since my symptoms become more intense, especially anxiety and acid reflux with awful chest and neck pain.

 

5.After incrising my last dose for 1mg, I did not see any improvement. Cannot say is it worse, because I am in hard state for long time.. symptoms are constantly present.. if one isn't the other ones are.. I feel so uncomfortable in my own body.. Like I have discomfort everywhere.. I become despressed ( never was depressed before) because of it and awfuly anxious, like never before. Like my whole life became withdrawal symptoms..I cannot think on anything else anymore. I cannot do things anymore.. I am constantly weak and tired or anxious and depressed.

 

6.Xanax wd crossed my mind, but I do not know what can I do about it, because I did not think it is smart to taper down xanax, while I am in ssri withdrawal.

 

7. I feel a bit better when I take xanax, but that not last long.. 

 

8. Mornings are the worst.. but I have symptoms through the whole day.. 

 

I hope these answers are helpful ..

 

Thank you all so much for your kind help so far. 

[JanCarol]

Thank you Nityananda - 

 

So you have had digestive changes - this is common in withdrawal.  Here's what others have to say:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3413-digestive-problems-nausea-diarrhea-bloating-gerd/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1229-probiotics-and-gut-health/

and maybe this one:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/890-scdgapspaleo-diets/

 

If you saw no changes with 1 mg updose - then - even though you went slowly, you may still need to "wait it out."  It's remotely possible, this far out, that another 1 mg updose might help.  But it might be destabilising too.  This far out, it's a "crap shoot" (dice game) and we don't know whether the odds favour the house - or you.

 

You are very right that it's not a good idea to taper your xanax when you are in the midst of withdrawal symptoms.

 

We wouldn't be looking to taper your xanax, just try and adjust the way you are taking it to try and smooth out your rough mornings.  The roughest part at the morning fits with you going through a form of interdose withdrawal from xanax every night.  I've asked Wellness for her opinion.

 

5-6 hours is still good sleep - and also fits the xanax withdrawal scenario.  I'm hoping that we can find a path which will help you.

 

I hope you see the Sun today!

[oops44]

its like a who's who of surviving antidepressants in here. everyone who is anyone is posting. 

 

i just wanted to pop it to say hello. with so much good advice and info being thrown around i figure it best if i refrain from adding to it to avoid overloading you. try to relax and digest as much of it as you can. though you may not think it possible now, I'm sure with everyones help you'll find your way through this.

 

hang in there. it will get better.

[Wellness]

Nityananda,

 

Since I don't have much experience with SSRI tapering I don't spend much time on the main forum and will not be following your progress unless you want help with the Xanax when you are ready to taper it, or if you want to change your Xanax dosing schedule to take it more evenly, to try to prevent inter-dose withdrawal.

 

If you want to reach me, I check all of the posts on the "Members-only benzo forum" every day. Just start a topic in the Benzo forum and I can help share my experience and try to help in anyway that I can.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/29-members-only-benzo-forum/

[Altostrata]

nityananda, please post about your Xanax dosing schedule and symptom pattern in the benzo forum, Wellness gave you the link above.

 

It could be your symptoms are from Xanax.

[nityananda]

JanCarol

 

thank you so very much for those links. I will check them out. I am working on it to resolve that GI issue with diet ..trying to avoid meds, but so far I am not successful. Whatever I eat gives me pain and heartburn. I have pain in chest and globus sens. for about 2-3 months now. It is so frustrating. 

 

2nd.. How to live with all this symptoms ..?  I am tired and desperate. I cannot take care of myself on my own and soon I'll have to.. I am so anxious to stay at home alone with all this symptoms..I was never afraid to stay at home alone before..I do not go anywhere..cannot work.. I am just more and more depressed and anxious. 

 

oops44

Thank you so very much for your kindness . You are helping me a lot. Please, do not hesitate to say anything.. Thank you for your support. It means a world to me.

 

 

Wellness

 

Thank You very much. I will post there. 

 

 

 

Altostrata

 

Thanks. Will do. We ll see. Maybe it is that after all. I'll update here, 

[nityananda]

 I tried to spread the doses like Welness suggested, but I could not do it. Vertigo, pains and other symptoms makes me even more unfunctional. 

 

Do not know what to do anymore, but cannot live like this anymore. I cannot take care of myself, neither to work etc. and I have to.

 

I am pretty sure now that xanax interdose withdrawal is giving me hard time, beside zoloft withdrawal. I am feeling trapped. 

 

Any suggestions?

 

tnx

[nityananda]

Anyone, anything? 

[scallywag]

nityananda - because you're tapering Xanax, it might be best for you to start a topic in the forum that Wellness monitors much more frequently than this one. Link to Members-only b-drug forum.

[BlueOcean]

I feel your pain. I'm coming off Zoloft myself, and it's brutal. I think I just made a mistake and took a full dose

[nityananda]

scallywag

 

I did that already, and Wellness tried to help, but that just doesn't work. :/

 

 

 

BlueOcean

 

Oh, you too. :/ It sucks!! So bad. 

 

How do you mean you took full dose? You took 50mg? 

[BlueOcean]

Yes and I'm paying for it now I feel way too amped up and confused