☼ Maybe

[Maybe]

Hello all!

 

Glad to be here!

 

As I recognize some familiar names, some might know me under the name of Quirk.

 

My whole w/d experience started exactly 19 months ago (hit the mark today).

The first time I took an AD (15mg Remeron for depression/lack of motivation [burnout?], end of 2008) I had no problems. Took it for around 2 months, but it made me so sleepy, that I had to quit it. Took 7,5mg for a week or two and then stopped c/t so to speak. Never had any w/d symptoms.

 

At the end of August 2009, I was prescribed Lexapro, for my situation was still not satisfactory.

I took the pills in the afternoon and on the 4th day (after 3 pills) I woke up with weird gastro and circulation problems resulting in my first ever and full blown panic attack. While hyperventilating and thinking that I am going to die, the ambulance arrived and all symptoms abaded slowly, but completely. In the afternoon I felt good again and, stupid me, took the 4th and last pill of Lexapro. I have to add that I always was suspicious of medicine and close to never took any pills, not even an Aspirin when i had headaches...

The next morning I woke with severe gastro problems (pain, cramps) again which slowly faded after 3 hours of agony. After heading to the doc who helped me with some stomach medicine, I thought that's it. Far from it.

 

After a short holiday trip and a very intense return flight (having aviophobia) I got my first real w/d symptoms. And so begins my experience.

Whenever I wanted to sleep, I got brain zaps, which were so strong, that it was impossible to sleep. They lasted for around 4 to 5 days and then were gone forever, thank God.

 

Other symptoms I had during the first waves were hot flushes, dizziness, panic attacks, dp/dr, weird head feelings and sound sensitivity in regard to being jumpy and zounds of other symptoms I cannot even remember anymore. When the symptoms abaded I tried to work out again, lifting weights and 3 days later...two weeks of heavy symptoms again. Then came two months where I felt back to normal, only the jumpiness remained.

 

Around christmas I had a quarrel with my dad and 3 days later I got another panic attack resulting in a visit to the ER and a week of dizziness and dr/dp. Then I was better again until another quarrel with a fellow student...3 days later, severe panic attack and a 2 week stay in hospital with another 2 panic attacks and all time dizziness.

 

Released out of hospital I went home to my parents...anxiety attacks nearly every evening and the inability to sleep. Again one or two weeks later, I could not handle life anymore and decided to stay in hospital for 3 months. The first night in hospital, I could sleep again. No more panic attacks, only feeling bad some days, dizziness and a weird perception of reality.

 

During the stay in hospital I felt better and better, only having minor symptoms. I could even work out again. I remember that when I told a friend about my experience and the symptoms, some minutes later I got symptoms feeling much worse. Or going out with the friend of my mom for dinner, I got dizzy in the restaurant without having any conscious fear.

 

After my 3 month stay, I came out of hospital and at once had weird symptoms again at home. They lasted 2 weeks and when I drove to my studying place in another city, they slowly abaded and the first time in months, I felt 100% back to normal for around 2 weeks (June 2010).

But then I drove home again and had an accupuncture appointment. I did not feel anything right after, but with every day I felt worse and on the 3rd day I got severe problems again this night. Stupid me, I had another acu. appointment, because I did not relate the symptoms to the accupuncture and of course I got symptoms again, worst on the 3rd day. An even worse evening/night followed some days later when I watched a soccer world cup game cheering too much at the goals.(worst night of my whole w/d with severe brain pain, like someone was cutting through it with a rusty knife).

 

Well, to make the rest of the story short, since then I have had waves and windows all the time, never feeling back to normal again.

 

Persisting symptoms:

(Symptoms vary greatly in intensity, but the majority of days is endurable)

 

- Dizziness/off balance

- Hot flushes in neck/backhead when laying down to sleep

- Pain/weird feelings in my calfs

- Feelings of exhaustion mainly in my arms

- Burning skin

- Gastro problems whenever I eat something

- Flu like symptoms or brain fog, as if something is laying on my backhead, hard to explain

- Derealisation/Depersonalisation

- Stiff neck/neck pain

- Body is just feeling weird, sometimes ill...not right

- Headaches from light to medium

- and other symptoms which come and go

[Neuroplastic]

Welcome to the forum, Maybe! Great to see you in our Blue Community. All the symptoms you're experiencing look soooo familiar. The waves and windows pattern is obvious in your case. First, it's really important that you already know what causes it all. Second, the waves and windows pattern means that there's healing going on; you will be progressing till you reach the point of complete healing. The important thing is to never let the waves trick you into thinking otherwise. Keep us updated on your improvement!

[Maybe]

Thank you very much, Neuroplastic.

 

I just hope that more improvements are on the horizon. I am still worried that I had 2 weeks of feeling great, but then the symptoms got much worse again after the acupuncture. No real improvements for around 9 months since then...

 

And I forgot one unnvering symptoms in the list:

- very dry skin (especially forehead and under my eyes) for two or three months now

[Healing]

Welcome, Maybe! It's good to see you here.

 

I'm so sorry you're having to go through all this. It certainly sounds like you had an adverse reaction to the Lexapro, with perhaps a kindling contribution from the Remeron. It doesn't sound like your body tolerated the Remeron all that well, either. These meds are not good for you!

 

It's really mind-boggling how long it can take to recover from such a brief exposure to these meds. But, it's true. Some people take these meds for a super-short time, yet still have to heal for a long time afterward.

 

You *will* heal, just like the people having the more common w/d experience. I have heard of others having a severe, long-lasting reaction like yours, and they healed.

[stan]

hi Maybe

 

welcome

[Maybe]

Thanks Healing and Stan,

 

My biggest fear right now is that even at 19 months out, new symptoms might pop up or old ones get worse. I often do not feel well, but I am able to go to work, even if I am not at 100%. I am afraid of getting worse and losing my job.

And i just do not understand what those 4 pills did to my body...

[Healing]

It seems to me highly unlikely that you will get significantly worse at this point. You are constantly healing now.

[Maybe]

I hope so...I just hope it so much...

 

Puna has helped me a lot the past weeks and I guess she is going to be mad at me asking the same questions over and over again <g>. But it is so good to get positive feedback on things that have such a horrendous and deep impact on one's life.

[stan]

hi Maybe

 

19 months is sometimes too short, it depends what receptors in what areas and how many have been fired, it is individual and random destruction(maybe more in areas you are weaker)

look at me 13 years taken and any problem function sexual (as i have divorced have to find a lovely in this site before death), but focus,nocturia, standing, shortness of breath,anxiety want kill me

 

time and patience my friend

 

asking the same questions ten times is normal in your state and mine too

[Punarbhava]

I hope so...I just hope it so much...

 

Puna has helped me a lot the past weeks and I guess she is going to be mad at me asking the same questions over and over again <g>. But it is so good to get positive feedback on things that have such a horrendous and deep impact on one's life.

 

Hi Maybe........

 

just wanted to welcome you.

 

I'm not the least bit "mad" at you BTW. Don't worry about that.

 

Rather, I understand exactly how you feel because we all have the same fears as you do. This is why it's important to receive feedback from multiple sources.

 

In fact, it is wise to seek help/opinions and information from multiple sources.

 

 

You're right re: this suffering is horrendous and is a life-altering experience. The good news is you WILL come through this!

 

BTW, new symptoms will show up, old ones can come back with great intensity, symptoms can cyclic in nature and not necesarily have a wave and window pattern and thus, it really throws one's sense of recovery into state of psychological turmoil again........leaving one believing that ome will never recover. It's a horrible process.

 

I've always said, "the only thing predictable about the WD process is it's unpredictability" With that said, you can predict the fact that you will fully recover.

 

Hang in there for a couple of more months. Things can change dramatically and even over night for many people. I know of many people who had an intense wave just before they turned the corner.

 

As for myself, I was suffering quite badly at the stage you are at and then, almost overnight, at the 21 1/2 month mark, a significant SHIFT has happened in my brain. While I am not symptom free............I'm feeling half-functional and with such greater ease rather than having to push so darn hard to accomplish the simplest of tasks.

 

My body feels flooded with energy. Many symptoms are of minor intensity.......

 

I still have cognitive problems and am sensitive to stress however, not anywhere near the intensity as what I experienced for so long.

 

Psychological symptoms are still there but in less intensity as well, however, I have a lot of trauma surfacing but that's to be expected since, I was in a very severe state for a very long time and have had to endure back to back horrific WD states.

 

So PTSD is really rearing it's ugly head right now but it's all part of the healing process. I need to understand this process and work with it rather than fear it.

 

 

I know some of what I've posted here is a reptition of our earlier discussions but I'm sharing this to reassure you once again, as well offering this for others to hang onto to keep hopeful in the midst of their current suffering.

 

You mark my words.........a few months from now you will begin to feel like a different person.

 

Anyway, I better post this. I need to leave again for several days. Take care Maybe. Soon you will be changing your username to "For Certain" (lol) or "For Sure"

 

Punarbhava

[Healing]

(as i have divorced have to find a lovely in this site before death)

 

time and patience my friend

 

asking the same questions ten times is normal in your state and mine too

 

Yes!

[Maybe]

Thanks a lot Punarbhava!

As always, your answers are greatly reassuring.

 

Yes, 100% recovery is possible. I even would be satisfied with 80 or 90%

 

Question is just, when? That is what makes me sad. After only 4 pills, I yet have to wait for a real improvement. I know, I should be glad that I am still able to work, that i had waves and windows from the beginning. Even months of feeling close back to normal. But then feeling bad again, is such a hit on the head. It just feels like there is no ending. And work is very hard. I have to be creative, focused, energetic. But I feel so empty. No power an always afraid of things getting worse. Scanning my body every minute, every hour. I want to stand on firm ground again, like I did before the pills. Not having the fear that the next step, the next day will throw me into oblivion or horror...

Do you know this feeling of not feeling normal? I do not mean special symptoms, just feeling weird. Not that it is terrible, it is just...unnormal.

[Punarbhava]

Thanks a lot Punarbhava!

As always, your answers are greatly reassuring.

 

Yes, 100% recovery is possible. I even would be satisfied with 80 or 90%

 

Question is just, when? That is what makes me sad. After only 4 pills, I yet have to wait for a real improvement. I know, I should be glad that I am still able to work, that i had waves and windows from the beginning. Even months of feeling close back to normal. But then feeling bad again, is such a hit on the head. It just feels like there is no ending. And work is very hard. I have to be creative, focused, energetic. But I feel so empty. No power an always afraid of things getting worse. Scanning my body every minute, every hour. I want to stand on firm ground again, like I did before the pills. Not having the fear that the next step, the next day will throw me into oblivion or horror...

Do you know this feeling of not feeling normal? I do not mean special symptoms, just feeling weird. Not that it is terrible, it is just...unnormal.

 

All of the "bold print" is very common in WD, not to mention everything else you have detailed. I had those and even worse. So too have many people. Again, this is temporary.

 

in regard to your fear reactions. This is common as well. I had to keep telling myself that "fear was my enemy". It has nothing empowering to offer me and thus, I chose to counteract my fears with FACTS rather along with wishful thinking.

 

To find facts, I read and re-read tons of recovery stories. These are not fiction......rather, real life stories of people who endure inhumane torture who recovered. I consider them to be factual accounts.

 

our receptors are in the process of healing ...... finding their way back to normal functioning. When I look at my suffering in this way, it allowes me to trust the process and to release some of the fears.

 

you're going to be more than fine. Just ride out the next few months.

 

My mind is going in circles atm and I'm running late so I better post this. Take care and hang in there.

 

Punar

[Maybe]

It is just that I see more people who still have troubles way out, than people who have recovered. Like Cosette, 36 months off or others with 4 or 5 years.

 

And I just cannot understand that I had only minor symptoms for close to 3 months in hospital. How could that be, if I still was in w/d? I ate normal food, did not take any medicine (of course not!) and did some light exercises every morning for 15 minutes. Maybe my system just cannot cope with stress anymore and living a normal working life is too much for me? Or did those two acupuncture sessions harm my cns more than one thinks?

 

Something is not quite right with my experience...

 

I just cannot believe that going on like I do, just waiting for a wonder, will heal myself.

[Maybe]

When I read for how many functions in the body serotonin is responsible, I feel queasy...

The 4 pills I took seem to have thrown my system out of balance, which can have bad effects on nearly every organ in the body. For example I sometimes have an above normal diastolic rate since I took the pills.

 

I truly doubt that this experience will not leave damage behind. It is a logical consequence that it does. And most of it may only come up when one is older. Those pills are unbelievable dangerous and no one knows how many other symptoms/illnesses will pop up when the years go by. I wish I never ever had taken them.

 

Why did I trust the doctor when I always was so suspicous before? I cannot believe it...

[Healing]

It's not a logical conclusion that you will have permanent damage. There are many, many things in the body that can be ill and then be 100% well.

 

It's just that what you're going through is hard to believe. You're having an adverse reaction to just a few pills, and it's harder for the human mind to wrap itself around that reality -- that even just one of these pills can cause harm that takes some people a long time to repair.

 

But, it's absolutely true -- I have seen many people have this kind of adverse reaction and then heal and have more vigor even than they had before.

 

I don't think we know for sure why you did so much better in the hospital -- it's very possible that the sheltered environment and the expectation that help was on the way did the trick. On the other hand, healing from these meds is non-linear, and you can be up and down for reasons that are hard to discern all the way until the end when the roller coaster stops.

 

It's impossible at this point in our knowledge to predict when the roller coaster ride will end for you. It really could be any moment!

 

You will heal even if you do nothing. It's true! I've seen it! But you can help the process along by taking good care of yourself and learning from this community all the tricks for calming your system.

[Maybe]

Hello Healing,

 

I do not really doubt, that one is going to "heal" from such an experience in that one has no symptoms anymore. But I think that there is a high chance, that some kind of organ illness may develope much later, because of the changes that have taken place during this time.

 

Furthermore, all adverse reactions I read about were much more severe than mine. Having symptoms right away for months without waves, whereas I had waves from the start. To be honest I do not understand the difference between an adverse reaction and prolonged w/d, because to me my experience seems more like the latter.

 

I struggle so badly, because before all this, I physically was complete healthy, doing sports, eating healthy..etc, etc...dang it

[stan]

it is hard to believe we will come out of the hole when you have both feet in

[Healing]

It's a weird and wonderful fact about the human body and psyche that, once an injury heals, that area is now stronger than it was before!

 

There is so much variety in the course of this syndrome, both for protracted w/d and for adverse reaction. It seems to me that it's a *good* sign that you went straight into having windows. It shows your neurological system is strong.

[Maybe]

I just read Suqirrels posting......and I am back into psychological hell again.....

[stan]

I just read Suqirrels posting......and I am back into psychological hell again.....

 

many testimonies say the first two years bad (i am in)

 

but many testimonies of severe withdrawal show people recovered very much between 18/24 months and 28/30 months

i prefer know the truth than illusion

[Maybe]

Well, one of my main problems is and was, I am not a very optimistic person, never was. And those bad stories always bring me down right away. I mean...6 years...unbelievable. And always the fear that things might get worse out of the blue. Worse for a longer time. I can cope with some bad days, have done it before. But the fear that one will suddenly feel worse for months or even years...

[Neuroplastic]

Maybe, the recovery time differs from person to person. But one thing remains unchangable - that the healing always happens.

 

You won't feel the way you're feeling right now in the months to come - your symptoms will be, on average, diminishing. I say "on average", for when in the bad wave, the temporary worsening of the symptoms plays havoc with a natural cognitive compass in our heads, and we start to obsessively think - "if it's bad again then I'm not improving". Don't let WD convince you to think along those lines.

 

There's absolutely NO doubt you're healing. Next time a window opens, write about it on a piece of paper. It helps to look at it when the wave worsens. It worked for me. Hang in there!

[Maybe]

Well, even tomorrow I do not feel the way I do now

Inside their category, the symptoms change like they want.

 

In one month, I have one to two really bad days/nights, ten bad days, 16 moderate days and maybe two are quite fine. The problem is...that has been the case for the past 10 months. Since this darn acupuncture I had exactly 1 1/2 days where I felt 99% recovered.

[Altostrata]

Well, one of my main problems is and was, I am not a very optimistic person, never was. And those bad stories always bring me down right away. I mean...6 years...unbelievable. And always the fear that things might get worse out of the blue. Worse for a longer time. I can cope with some bad days, have done it before. But the fear that one will suddenly feel worse for months or even years...

 

Maybe, whether it takes 6 weeks or 6 months or 6 years to recover, we all put one foot in front of the other to keep going. None of us knows what will happen in the future. Just take it one day at a time.

 

About the 4 pills -- please stop worrying about them and feeling guilty. Don't feel bad about any of the choices you've made. You did the best you could, without guidance from experts because there are hardly any. Most of us did the same.

 

Some people are sensitive to to the burst of serotonin produced initially by SSRIs and can suffer very long adverse reactions and withdrawal syndrome -- yes, even after 4 pills. It is estimated to be 1 percent of the population with this sensitivity. It doesn't mean anything was wrong with your nervous system, it means that not enough is known about these drugs and how people react to them.

 

The recovery process is frustrating and dispiriting, because when you have a short period of feeling better, you expect it to gradually continue. This is logical, but it isn't how recovery works. There are a lot of lurches forward and backward. Eventually you'll notice your average level of wellness increases and you're feeling better than you did 6 months ago.

 

On this site, you are seeing a lot of people who have been struggling with withdrawal syndrome for a long time. I've also invited people who have recovered and don't have time for support sites anymore -- hopefully they'll drop by and post their stories.

 

People do recover, you just don't seem them participating. Over the last few months, I'm doing much better myself.

[Maybe]

Thank you very much Surviving!

 

It seems there is no other way than moving day by day.

I am glad, that I am able to work and at least have some "calmly" fun. I have to increase my working out though. I think I am just doing not enough to help my body recover. Maybe some knee bends or so will slowly help me.

[Punarbhava]

Well, one of my main problems is and was, I am not a very optimistic person, never was.

 

Optimism is not unattainable. It is a conscious decision to work on our fears. Optimism however, is not to be confused with being naive and/or blind to possible realities. Rather, it is a conscious desire to work on our fears so we can become empowered rather than remaining immobilized or paralyzed by fear..

 

And those bad stories always bring me down right away. I mean...6 years...unbelievable.

 

You are not alone in regard to those reactions. It's natural to be shaken by such stories however, one must take some time to put things into proper perspective.

 

Here's the thing Maybe, the law of average is on your side. The vast majority of people start to feel so much better between the 18 and 24 month mark. A smaller percentage take about 30 months and an even smaller percentage 36 months. Then there are the minority that take much longer.

 

You could be spending all this time worrying about something that will never come to pass. Keep your eye on the 24 month mark.....ride out this time and don't look beyond that. Just think of how angry you will be at yourself IF you spend the next couple of months filled with fear, only to find out that it was all for nothing.

 

Please know, I am, in no way, preaching to you. Rather, I'm sharing what I tell myself all the time to counteract my fears.

 

And always the fear that things might get worse out of the blue. Worse for a longer time. I can cope with some bad days, have done it before. But the fear that one will suddenly feel worse for months or even years...

 

Your fear is highly unlikely to pan out as you describe. The vast majority of people are doing SO MUCH BETTER by the two year mark. As long as you remain drug, alcohol, herb and supplement free you have every reason to believe that you are only a matter of a few months away from turning the corner.

 

And you can argue that point with me if you wish (LOL) (just joking with you BTW).......but I've seen thousands of people come and go from various AD and benzo forums and I can attest that what I have relayed above is NOT wishful thinking, not my opinion, nor my attempt to give you false hope. Rather, it's pretty much a given and a near guarantee.

 

Take care and hang in there. You truly are closer to recovery than you think. Do not gauge your progress by how you feel at this time. It's not an accurate representation of where you will be a few months from now.

 

BTW, sorry it's taken a bit of time to get back to you but I was in and out of town for a short while and then had a life stressor to contend with which prevented me from reading so many posts.

 

 

Punar

[Maybe]

Thank you very much, Punar

Your postings always give me a lot reassurance and hope.

 

I am currently feeling quite fine and have so for the last 2 weeks or so. Still having a lot of weird digestive problems, dizziness and weird body feelings. But most of the time they are endurable and I am grateful for that. I just wish that the real corner is not too far ahead. Living a normal life again would be unbelievable great. But well, one step after the other...

[Maybe]

Is it possible to get symptoms after eating something wrong (was at a Chinese restaurant) 24 hours later?

I am feeling quite weird currently. Maybe it is a typical random symptom flair-up or has a connection to the Chinese food from yesterday. I think they use a lot of unnatural ingredients here and i did not think about it

[angie007]

Ah now, chinese food, yes!!!!! it affects me in the same way,

i think its to do with the fact that its loaded with MSG,

something lots of us in wd, do not tolerate too well.

 

Hang in there, this too will pass and soon.

[Neuroplastic]

Is it possible to get symptoms after eating something wrong (was at a Chinese restaurant) 24 hours later?

I am feeling quite weird currently. Maybe it is a typical random symptom flair-up or has a connection to the Chinese food from yesterday. I think they use a lot of unnatural ingredients here and i did not think about it

 

Quite possible. Could have been some processed food, could have been too much carbs, or still others. Nothing to worry about - it will pass. I usually feel the deterioration of the symptoms (after the "no no" ingredients) 24-36 hours after the fact.

[Maybe]

Well, I am feeling better already

Worst thing for me is still stress. After working 8 hours, I always feel a bit worse until I am home. When I relax symptoms mostly get better again. How I am longing for a full recovery...

[Punarbhava]

Thank you very much, Punar

Your postings always give me a lot reassurance and hope.

 

I am currently feeling quite fine and have so for the last 2 weeks or so. Still having a lot of weird digestive problems, dizziness and weird body feelings. But most of the time they are endurable and I am grateful for that. I just wish that the real corner is not too far ahead. Living a normal life again would be unbelievable great. But well, one step after the other...

 

 

My pleasure and so glad to hear that things are easier to endure! Few more months and you will be on your way!!

 

 

Many More Grateful Moments to You!

 

Punar

[Maybe]

The past 2 weeks or so really have been quite good. Only some bad hours, though still not a single moment of feeling back to normal. It somehow feel as it will be this way forever now. I know, you all say it will not, but one gets so used to this feeling of weirdness, it is hard to imagine or to remember how life was and will be without it.

 

Most obvious symptoms are still movement sensitivity (has become a bit better), tinnitus, dizziness and just feeling weird mostly around the head and neck. And of course my digestive system, though this as well has become a tad better as it seems.

Funny thing is, I have a feeling that the dizziness somehow emerges from my digestive system. Very hard to explain.

 

We will see how everything developes...

[Rhiannon]

Thanks Healing and Stan,

 

My biggest fear right now is that even at 19 months out, new symptoms might pop up or old ones get worse. I often do not feel well, but I am able to go to work, even if I am not at 100%. I am afraid of getting worse and losing my job.

And i just do not understand what those 4 pills did to my body...

 

Its hard to say since we don't really understand, but I think the Remeron must be part of the picture too--some kind of kindling effect, maybe some genes that got upregulated on the Remeron and never normalized fully. Who knows.

 

The past 2 weeks or so really have been quite good. Only some bad hours, though still not a single moment of feeling back to normal. It somehow feel as it will be this way forever now. I know, you all say it will not, but one gets so used to this feeling of weirdness, it is hard to imagine or to remember how life was and will be without it.

 

Most obvious symptoms are still movement sensitivity (has become a bit better), tinnitus, dizziness and just feeling weird mostly around the head and neck. And of course my digestive system, though this as well has become a tad better as it seems.

Funny thing is, I have a feeling that the dizziness somehow emerges from my digestive system. Very hard to explain.

 

We will see how everything developes...

 

Actually there is quite a complex nervous system associated with the digestive tract.

http://www.psyking.net/id36.htm

among many, many other sources. This is a hot topic these days so lots of research and discussion.

[Maybe]

The fist thing that was "hit" by the pills was my digestive system. I just wonder why it was fine around month 6 to 10 or so and then got much worse. But well, no one can tell me. I just hope that my system is able to get back on track.