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Barbarannamated

Toxic Family

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Shanti

Meistersinger, but did you care and love? Did you help people and support others, and were you kind? None of us are without guilt. We are all flawed here. But what matters is what lives you've touched with love, art, compassion, empathy and kindness. You know who the biggest drain on society is, and who is guiltiest of harm to humanity is? Those that care more about money than mankind. Many conservatives even Christian, took the "mark" and worship the beast. They are the ones that could care less about the testing for drugs and how many lives their products ruin, as long as they profit financially. You are a good person. Your worth to you should never be measured by something so mundane as jobs. But of your heart and intentions. You deserve to be loved and deserve the help you need.

 

People that are kind and of good heart are the ones that bring light into this dark world. Without us, this place would be in even worse shape. Know that being who you are and the help you give others does much more to help the world than any of your conservative family.

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meistersinger

 

Meistersinger, but did you care and love? Did you help people and support others, and were you kind? None of us are without guilt. We are all flawed here. But what matters is what lives you've touched with love, art, compassion, empathy and kindness. You know who the biggest drain on society is, and who is guiltiest of harm to humanity is? Those that care more about money than mankind. Many conservatives even Christian, took the "mark" and worship the beast. They are the ones that could care less about the testing for drugs and how many lives their products ruin, as long as they profit financially. You are a good person. Your worth to you should never be measured by something so mundane as jobs. But of your heart and intentions. You deserve to be loved and deserve the help you need.

 

Thanks for the thoughts.

 

As I was growing up, I always heard the comment from mom, "Yep, that's Meistersinger, he's as bighearted as he is dumb." Dumb, in this sense, meaning naive. You would not believe how naive I can still be at times. I had to learn, the hard way, to be wary, and not to trust. Oscar Hammerstein II, the lyricist, said it best in a song that comes from the musical South Pacific: You've got to be carefully taught. While the lyrics deal with racial hate and racial discrimination, the title, which also happens to be the first line of the song, says it loud and clear: You have to be taught this stuff. not only taught, but carefully taught.

 

People that are kind and of good heart are the ones that bring light into this dark world. Without us, this place would be in even worse shape. Know that being who you are and the help you give others does much more to help the world than any of your conservative family.

 

The one thing that bothers me, both with psychology and psychiatry, is with the definition of normal. I have yet to see anywhere, a written definition of normal. The dictionary only gives a descriptive definition of the word. How is normal defined prescriptively? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Is it defined as a community standard? If so, what is the standard? Community Standards have been known to change, often for the worse.

 

The DSM, as I found out, started out as a military document to determine whether a soldier was suffering from battle fatigue. Just like anything else that comes out of the military, with very few exceptions (GPS being one of them), it has very little to offer the civilian population. To me, it looks like psychiatry, with psychology following the same lead as psychiatry, adopted this same document, which eventually became the DSM, because either the APA's (both psychiatric and psychological), didn't want to take the time to write a new standard, or because they thought it was easier to adapt an existing military document to the civilian population. Keep in mind, the military is big on standardization in regards to inanimate objects like guns, machinery, food, etc. How do you standardize human behavior? As far as I'm concerned, you can't.

 

Don't even get me started on politics. I've been all over the map with politics, and I've been burned every time. The last great president this country had that was for the people, in my opinion, was Harry S. Truman. Everyone else after him, again, in my opinion, abandoned the populous for the big money. I refuse to vote, mostly because I don't know where any of the candidates stand, no thanks to all the "spin" and mudslinging.

 

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Shanti

Aspies are not meant to fit in, because we have a mission above and beyond conforming to a 9-5 job. We're not meant to be sheep. Think about this, 90% of the population is asleep. They have no clue about the Power Elite, what is ruling behind the supposed government, the extent of the corruption in all areas like Big Pharma. They are asleep because they have no time to learn these things. Before, it used to be that the housewives were the only friggin hope for learning TRUTH, because they weren't forced to sit in a cubicle and not looking deep at the world and events. We really need our System Busters. People that don't conform, but they follow their hearts, read and study and express what they feel led to from within. This should be a paying job. I sometimes even wonder if some of us incarnated here as Aspie or with disabilities so that we'd help to bust this system, but we must have a way to live. It is okay Meister. I'm going to get SS soon and I don't consider myself worthless. I contribute to society in more ways than a lot of people and I am doing all these sheeples that pay into it with taxes a favor actually lol. Here we are, one thing cleaning up this mess that Big Pharma and the Power Elite made in just one area. You give support and advice. That's priceless.

 

Have you heard of Indigo Children and Adult Indigos?

 

  • Are intelligent (though did not necessarily have top grades).
  • Are very creative and enjoy making things.
  • Always need to know WHY (especially why they are being asked to do something).
  • Had disgust and perhaps loathing for the inanity of much of the required work in school, the repetition.
  • Were rebellious in school, refusing to do homework, rejecting authority of teachers OR seriously wanted to rebel, but didn't DARE, usually due to parental pressure.
  • May have experienced early existential depression and feelings of helplessness. These may have ranged from sadness to utter despair. Suicidal feelings while still in high school or younger are not uncommon in the Indigo Adult.
  • Have difficulty in service-oriented jobs - resistance to authority and caste system of employment.
  • Prefer cooperative efforts or leadership position or solo if expertise is valued.
  • Have deep empathy for others, yet an intolerance of stupidity.
  • Extremely emotionally sensitive including crying at the drop of a hat (no shielding) - to no expression of emotion (full shielding).
  • May have trouble with RAGE.
  • Have trouble with most systems (either emotionally, mentally, or physically)- political, educational, medical, law.
  • Alienation from politics - feeling your voice won't count and that the outcome really doesn't matter anyway.
  • Frustration with or rejection of the traditional American dream - 9-5 career, marriage, 2.5 children, house with white picket fence, etc.
  • Anger at rights being taken away, fear and/or fury at "Big Brother watching you."
  • They feel a need like a burning desire to do something to change and improve the world. May be stymied what to do.
  • Have psychic or spiritual interest fairly young - in or before teen years.
  • Had few if any Indigo role models.
  • Have strong intuition.
  • Random behavior pattern or mind style - (symptoms of Attention Deficit Disorder), may have trouble focusing on a task unless of OWN choosing, may jump around in conversations.
  • Have had psychic experiences, such as premonitions, seeing angels or ghosts, hearing voices.
  • Sexually expressive and inventive OR may reject sexuality in boredom. May explore alternate types of sexuality.
  • Seek meaning to their life and understanding about the world May seek this through religion, spiritual groups and books, self-help groups or books, or individually.
  • If they find balance they may become very strong, healthy, happy lightworkers.

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starlitegirlx

I appreciate the sentiments. Unfortunately, I'm now the black sheep of what's left of the family, just as my family was considered the black sheep on both sides of the family, just as mom and dad were considered to be the black sheep of their respective families. Is it my fault I'm the black sheep, no., but I still get saddled with all the guilt, which is probably why I ended up on antidepressants.

 

Thing is, and I don't mean this to hurt you, but your family sounds like a bunch of tools for how they treated you. If you want to let a bunch of tools who have been less than kind to you sink you then I guess that's the way it's going to be, but it seems to me that none of them are worth letting whatever they say or how they treat you rule how you feel about yourself. Of course, I'm cut from a different grain or more accurately I grew to be a different grain of person. People like that, who treat me like that are worthless humans in my book. I sooner cut them out of my life than let them steamroll me into berating myself and letting situational depression due to their treatment of me take over. I say this having come from a similar place - off the wall controlling crackpot mom with very little actual love shown toward me my whole life. Concern was only for my survival. Recently that has changed toward the better but only after 20 years. She loathed my father and uncle, both of whom I considered to be good men. My father was really there for me when I got very sick 20 years ago. Her? Only in the controlling fashion. My brother? He may say he loves me, but he does nothing to show it. I spent most of the past 16 years of my life (since my dad died) feeling like an orphan with no family, just these people who happened to be related to me by default. Both my mother and brother can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Truly. My mom's love is so twisted that I don't know if it's guilt, fear, something connected to catholic issues related to stigma attached should I ever kill myself or what. There is some teeny bit of love in there. She dislikes seeing me suffer and she has been helpful recently, but due to a very long history of watching this woman mistreat me in a myriad of ways to the point that drove me near suicide because i just wanted to die and be with my dad who I knew loved me, well, redemption on her end is tentative and with recent events of her pushing my buttons, we're back where we started. I don't trust her. I fear her. She's threatens my survival and what's sadder is that on some level I feel like she wants to do that. Like she wants me to kill myself and can't bring herself to admit it or face it so she acts out.

 

Point of all this is that for 16 years, I've been fed a steady diet of being the black sheep (brother was always the favorite who can mistreat and ignore my mom and she makes all sorts of excuses for him). I'm the one that caused her suffering. I'm the one with the problems. And yet, I'm also the one who is expected to be the perfect child or whatever the hell crap twists in her brain.

 

I know how hard it is. Whether they say this stuff or just show it in their actions, it's damaging. But that only proves they're trash in my book. They made me harder and angrier and more depressed via their actions. Then I took that power from them and realized they're just selfish, ignorant and damaged humans and I owe them nothing. I don't care that my mom says I verbally abuse her. I never did before the years of hell she put me through with neglect and mistreatment that falls below the level of overt abuse but exists nevertheless. 90% of the time I do not exist to her unless I have said something hurtful to get her attention or stop her from doing something that is damaging me. Mainly the second happens only after periods of build up from letting the little things go for far to long.

 

Now, to me, they are just people. I don't care about them. They aren't worth it. Should I survive this withdrawal hell and get better, my mom is going to be doing things for herself that I did because I've discovered she's more than capable whether it's difficult or not for her. Tough luck, lady. You turned me into a person I didn't ever want to be. Payback is a *****.

 

So yeah, your family is horrible, but that's only your problem when you allow it to be. Write them off as the tools they are and don't let them define you. They don't deserve that power. They don't deserve any kind of acknowledgement at all from you. People like them just aren't worth it. They are reason this world gets so screwed up and has so many damaged people. Easier for them to scapegoat you than look in the mirror and see their many faults. Don't give them that right or that power. They don't deserve it. They don't even own it. You've given it to them. Take it back and be free.

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Shanti

Family Mesmerism is a term many of us use to describe this phenomina where we allow our family members to control us through manipulations, condemnation, beliefs and philosophies, societal standards, dysfunction and co-dependency. It's okay to have family ties on one level, but this is about how family ties prevent us from being true to ourselves and keep us from fulfilling our higher purpose for being.

 

If you want to end Family Mesmerism, being aware of this unhealthy tie and realizing you need your Liberty is one way to start cutting them. Their opinions about us are destructive and penetrate our own thoughts about ourselves long after we've parted ways. (this is the mesmerism part). This whole society is brainwashed into criticizing, condemning and judging each other to prevent individualization and thus the expression of our Light that can only come from following our true desire and fulfilling our true purpose. Here is a meditation for cutting ties, and releasing not only yourself in body, but in mind.

 

Imagine that you are coming up to a long bridge, and you start to walk across it. As you get closer to the center you see a certain family member walking from the other direction to meet you halfway. When you meet in the middle, say something to them like "I love you and I forgive you, and please forgive me. But I have to cut free and live my own life now". Then take out an imaginary pair of scissors. See that there is a cord attached to both of you, connecting you. Cut the cord. Then you both turn around and leave the bridge.

 

"Cult" is a man-made term created by a certain powerful religion. It's a "dirty" word created to get everyone to cast judgment against anyone that goes outside the mainstream in philosophy, thought and spirituality. Cults are not bad. Not most of them anyway. Of course there are some bad ones, but not any more so than the abuse and atrocities I see in many mainstream religions. One of the important things in cults is cutting ties because they know how Family Mesmerism is detrimental to expanding a person's consciousness outside of the box. I don't recommend joining a cult. But I just wanted to make a point in how not only political and religious leaders punish anyone that goes against the accepted norm, but how they brainwash the masses into doing the same, even to family members.

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Barbarannamated

Shanti,

 

Ive read a little about Indigo Children before but your list is a spot on description of me aside from being rebellious in school or not getting good grades. I always conformed, even when my instinct screamed not to. It seems that a few of those items that have either/or choices, the second choice is a sort of giving up/buckling under the pressure of being different and resorting to inaction whether consciously or not. That's exactly how I feel right now and I feel like I can *hear* a similar feeling in Meistersinger, Starlitegirl, Sparrow. I hope this doesnt offend anyone. I have noticed that certain peoples' posts always resonate with me deeply. Shanti, yours also strike a chord with me and I hope to have your outlook someday. Hopefully soon.

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Shanti

There has been a conscious and concerted attack against Indigo children for the last 40+ years, mainly through the labeling of ADHD and ADD, and the weapon of Ritalin. I believe there is a specialness to these souls, but don't quite agree with a lot of the New Age beliefs about them. They are usually forced into rebellion. They know that the current system is plain wrong. Their souls won't let them conform easily and if they do, it leads to the depression.

 

In cutting ties (physical, astral or etheric) to people that have a hold over your consciousness, mainly Family Mesmerism, it's counter productive to have resentment or anger toward them. Sure, it's good to be angry to get you moving, because that is what the anger is for, to cause you to take action. But that tie won't be cut and they'll always have a hold over you in your thoughts and feelings about yourself if there is no true forgiveness and we still hold onto anger. And this will lead to bad feelings still about yourself and still guilty for not conforming like they wanted you to. This is about how to be totally free.

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Shanti

I can really relate to Starlite about having no qualms about cutting free of these people and not letting them convince me of their lies about me. I wasn't always like that though.

 

Knowing who you are is powerful. I am very proud to be an Aspie! And you should be too Meistersinger. I think it's a kind of Indigo, but more extreme. One thing about people with Aspergers is that they have no fear of Being and are even confused about the personas that people wear. How people manipulate, beat around the bush, play all kinds of stupid games instead of just saying what they mean. I like this fearlessness and freedom to Be and I'm grateful I don't have the heavy burden of a persona to uphold. If people don't like me, that's there problem. It really doesn't matter to me. I like to Be.

 

Also, I edited this to add that until we accept who we are, being Aspies, it can be very hard and feel lonely in a world of people that don't seem genuine and of good conscience.

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Barbarannamated

Just got word that my sister OD'd again and is on psych hold at hospital in my hometown. My father is said to be miserable. I feel terrible and that I should help somehow, but I tried for too long. He continues to provide drug money knowing exactly what it's being used for.

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starlitegirlx

Just got word that my sister OD'd again and is on psych hold at hospital in my hometown. My father is said to be miserable. I feel terrible and that I should help somehow, but I tried for too long. He continues to provide drug money knowing exactly what it's being used for.

 

I'm so sorry for that. What a horrible situation to have to handle. Honestly though, you really can't help. He's enabling her. She's not going to stop. They cycle is already set. He's miserable because he feels guilty no matter what he does. Truly toxic. You being involved in it would just add to your stress and recovery while not actually doing anything or being able to do anything to help resolve the situation. Seems to me like staying out of it, as much as you want to help, is what you need to do for you. In fact, all of those groups for family members/friends of addicts promote self-care and not feeling guilty no matter what happens since you are not the one abusing the drug and especially when you are not the enabler.

 

I wish I could offer more helpful words. I'm sorry this is happening to you and your family.

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Shanti

How is she doing now Barb? I'm sorry you have this situation going on. But it is true. You can't do anything if your dad won't listen to you about enabling her addiction. Maybe you can get him to go to an Al-anon meeting? He would get a lot of support there.

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Barbarannamated

I apologize, I never saw the last message.

 

My father never mentioned the December OD to me. I found out from someone in the small town. My dad would never dream of going to a meeting. That would be admitting there's a problem in his family. Lots of elephants in the proverbial room. I figure someone will notify me if she dies.

 

On a different note... I just got this book, The Normal One, today and it's already hit home several times.

 

http://www.jeannesaferphd.com/book/the-normal-one/

 

I've been in contact with the author about possible counseling.

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Hope1

i read this thread with intrest. i can relate to the use of "tactic's" to "draw" me/others in.

 

i still have both parents,they live several hundred miles away (i came to see this as a blessing).i was v blessed with my Nana who was more of a mother to me,it would have been her birthday tomorrow,i miss her so terribly& wish she was still here.

 

i see how my mother winds people up & sets them off like a clockwork toy,she stands back claiming shock etc at what so & so said/did. last yr she set about trying to cause worry about my Dad's health (implying she was worried he'd die).she had me going for a while,until i realised she was enjoying creating fear.in trying to distance from her we stopped picking up if caller display showed their tel no. she started with holding the tel no! when that failed she used my Dad's mobile to ring!

 

she is v manipulative,plays the victim,controling,can be so cruel etc. at the moment she "seems" to be kinder,another post mentioned your guard,i feel very aware of not letting mine down,experience has taught me she will never change,i have given up hope of that. my relationship with my 2 siblings isn't strong,mum stirs & i see she enjoys setting us off against each other,"he said /she said about you....",we will never be allowed to be close while she's alive.

 

i have said to my husband that if my mum is ever terminally ill don't take me to her death bed - she'd leave me with nasty,cruel comments that would do me no good. my dear nana on the other hand - i sat with her daily in a hospice as she died of breast cancer. mum & nana are chalk & cheese.

 

i love my Dad but he enables allsorts with Mum. living a long way away is a blessing. i told my Dad a tiny bit about the withdrawl i'm going through last night,normally i don't tell them much. i'm lucky my husband is supportive!

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primrose

I haven't read all of this thread but I have got the gist and my heart goes out to you all.

I am nearly 47 years old and it's taken me till now to realise that my family are toxic, and, like so many others, place great emphasis on appearing like the preverbial normal happy mainstream family.

I am surprised how slow I have been to catch on, given that my abuse was so blatant. It took me till age 25 to leave the family home, god knows why, I was miserable as my parents were making me that way.

If I had moved out when I was younger, I would have been much more happy.

Still, no point in pondering that, as it wont do any good.

I did cut off contact for seven years, but when I first got benzo wd, I got paranoia, and out of the blue, I phoned my parents and asked if I could stay.

What a mistake. That was three years ago, and it has taken me three years to realise why I rang them on impulse. I must have figured, "I am in big trouble, and abusive parents are the only ones I have got and the best I am gonna get".

They still try to control me and I wish I had never broken that rift.

I send them cards but cannot bring myself to put 'love' on them. It's their anniversary, but I could not bring myself to write a card.

52 yrs married. Dad has given mum a **** life. They told me they dont love each other, but tolerate each other, so I didn't want to send a card this year.

Eventually I will go no contact, but at the moment, it feels easier to just send the odd birthday card to keep them at arms length, cos if I send no cards, it will attract their attention.

It breaks my heart to see other people enjoying sibling and parent relationships and I feel really envious.

Not having a loving family can make me feel unwelcome here on Earth itself.

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Barbarannamated

I am surprised how slow I have been to catch on, given that my abuse was so blatant.

 

They still try to control me and I wish I had never broken that rift.

 

It breaks my heart to see other people enjoying sibling and parent relationships and I feel really envious.

 

Primrose,

I could have written the exact statements above, especially the last. I do use Facebook (probably a mistake for me right now) and every time I see a post about a wonderful mother, father, sister, I feel so alone and jealous. I don't have kids and the "wonderful daughter" ones even bother me right now.

 

The source of dysfunction and control / manipulation with money are very clear to me since withdrawing. It's hard to believe I never recognized the blatant manipulation before my late 40s.

 

I have no real life friends who understand this and they often defend my father. A good provider does not equal a good parent.

 

I'm thankful to everyone who contributed so honestly to this thread.

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primrose

 

I am surprised how slow I have been to catch on, given that my abuse was so blatant.

 

They still try to control me and I wish I had never broken that rift.

 

It breaks my heart to see other people enjoying sibling and parent relationships and I feel really envious.

 

Primrose,

I could have written the exact statements above, especially the last. I do use Facebook (probably a mistake for me right now) and every time I see a post about a wonderful mother, father, sister, I feel so alone and jealous. I don't have kids and the "wonderful daughter" ones even bother me right now.

 

The source of dysfunction and control / manipulation with money are very clear to me since withdrawing. It's hard to believe I never recognized the blatant manipulation before my late 40s.

 

I have no real life friends who understand this and they often defend my father. A good provider does not equal a good parent.

 

I'm thankful to everyone who contributed so honestly to this thread.

 

"A good provider does not make a good parent", Beautiful.

So, you also only realised in your late 40's.

This is not common, there are forums for people who have suffered abuse from families and many people who grew up with abuse did not see the full picture, as we are too immersed in the abuse.

None of my family members validated my experiences, and so it was like being abused over and over again, funny how it seems to multiply itself.

Sorry you are hurting so badly, but thank you for helping remind me I am not alone.

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Barbarannamated

Primrose,

 

What are the forums you referred to? I did find SibNet, but haven't gotten involved. I'm so sensitive about this and trying to find balance between discussing it but not getting overwhelmed. Very difficult.

 

It reminds me of people who refuse to leave their homes in the path of California wildfires. I can't stop looking back, thinking I should do something but knowing rationally that I can't. It's awful. Mother's Day is difficult, too.

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primrose

I have to add my two cents here... and this after saying above how utterly important it is to preserve your own sanity...

 

Once the seemingly toxic people in your life pass, you (I) still end up with lots of guilt surrounding the what ifs. It's hard to explain if you haven't been there. Sometimes the guilt is worse than the original happening. All this to say if it's at all possible to make some kind of peace while these toxic people are still around, DO IT. I can tell you from years of experience and ongoing therapy, that the pain 'after' is even worse. The act of forgiving and accepting (if you can bring yourself to do it) is beyond anything your mind can imagine. It's healing beyond words.

 

What if your parents were abusive and seemed to deliberately want to drive you insane?

I don't hate them, but I need to keep myself away from them, for my own emotional and psychological safety. My quality of life would be vastly reduced if I were in regular contact with them.

Also, why should I feel guilty, when they were the ones who hurt the little vulnerable me, all those years ago?

I don't understand where the guilt comes from, but would love it if you could elaboarate and explain from the point of view of an abused daughter please?

I don't see that I owe them anything.

I don't feel bothered about them, but I do feel bothered about the pervasive effects their abuse has had on my life.

To me, they are already dead, but I would love to know more about this guilt that comes after they die, cos, at the moment, the only thing i feel guilty about, is letting myself down, by not fighting back, when they victimized me, and not moving out of the family home to safety until age 25.

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Barbarannamated

 

I have to add my two cents here... and this after saying above how utterly important it is to preserve your own sanity...

 

Once the seemingly toxic people in your life pass, you (I) still end up with lots of guilt surrounding the what ifs. It's hard to explain if you haven't been there. Sometimes the guilt is worse than the original happening. All this to say if it's at all possible to make some kind of peace while these toxic people are still around, DO IT. I can tell you from years of experience and ongoing therapy, that the pain 'after' is even worse. The act of forgiving and accepting (if you can bring yourself to do it) is beyond anything your mind can imagine. It's healing beyond words.

 

What if your parents were abusive and seemed to deliberately want to drive you insane?

I don't hate them, but I need to keep myself away from them, for my own emotional and psychological safety. My quality of life would be vastly reduced if I were in regular contact with them.

Also, why should I feel guilty, when they were the ones who hurt the little vulnerable me, all those years ago?

I don't understand where the guilt comes from, but would love it if you could elaboarate and explain from the point of view of an abused daughter please?

I don't see that I owe them anything.

I don't feel bothered about them, but I do feel bothered about the pervasive effects their abuse has had on my life.

To me, they are already dead, but I would love to know more about this guilt that comes after they die, cos, at the moment, the only thing i feel guilty about, is letting myself down, by not fighting back, when they victimized me, and not moving out of the family home to safety until age 25.

 

Primrose,

 

I can't answer for Summer, of course, but I empathize with your position. I've found that Jeanne Safer, PhD, offers a different view on topics that hit home with me, particularly "Death Benefits" and "Forgiving and Not Forgiving... why sometimes it's better not to forgive".

http://www.jeannesaferphd.com/book/forgiving-and-not-forgiving/

 

I know that, for me, at this point, forgiveness would not be genuine and feels like it would undermine my own self.

 

Just wanted to share.

 

Hugs.

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primrose

hi

 

thanx for the link and the hug x

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mammaP

This topic makes me feel so sad for everyone who has toxic

family. :( I wish I could make things better for everyone.

Hugs for everyone who needs them. XXX

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Barbarannamated

This topic makes me feel so sad for everyone who has toxic

family. :( I wish I could make things better for everyone.

Hugs for everyone who needs them. XXX

 

Thanks, mammaP. Seeing this about my family is the most painful thing I've ever come to realize. It was much easier when i , like everyone else, saw my sister as a drug addict that just *happened* to an otherwise good and healthy family. I wish I could unsee the bigger picture. It hurts so badly that my default position is anger and distance, as I'm sure comes through in my posts.

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Aria

 

This topic makes me feel so sad for everyone who has toxic

family. :( I wish I could make things better for everyone.

Hugs for everyone who needs them. XXX

 

Thanks, mammaP. Seeing this about my family is the most painful thing I've ever come to realize. It was much easier when i , like everyone else, saw my sister as a drug addict that just *happened* to an otherwise good and healthy family. I wish I could unsee the bigger picture. It hurts so badly that my default position is anger and distance, as I'm sure comes through in my posts.

 

I had to let much of my childhood and mid-20's go. It was painful but I had to. The memories have become blurry with age (thank goodness) and I find I skim over that history when asked.

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Barbarannamated

 

 

This topic makes me feel so sad for everyone who has toxic

family. :( I wish I could make things better for everyone.

Hugs for everyone who needs them. XXX

 

Thanks, mammaP. Seeing this about my family is the most painful thing I've ever come to realize. It was much easier when i , like everyone else, saw my sister as a drug addict that just *happened* to an otherwise good and healthy family. I wish I could unsee the bigger picture. It hurts so badly that my default position is anger and distance, as I'm sure comes through in my posts.

 

I had to let much of my childhood and mid-20's go. It was painful but I had to. The memories have become blurry with age (thank goodness) and I find I skim over that history when asked.

 

Aria, Are you also estranged from your family? (I apologize if you've said before).

I guess I'm a little surprised that so many are separated from family. I think if it had happened earlier in life, I might not be hurting so badly now.

 

Hugs to all.

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Aria

I had my share of crappy adolescent and mid 20's but I wasn't estranged from my family. My parents are deceased and I live several states away from my siblings. One sibling is a therapist and believes strongly in diagnoses and drugs. After it was found I had been wrongly diagnosed and given dangerous toxic psych drugs for many years this sibling realized ostracizing me had been a mistake. She won't talk about this (let along apologize for her meaness) but has said she tries to get her clients on less psych drugs. I have found "my family" is who I enjoy and love being around.

 

I try to not tell the bad parts of my life (including my years on unnecessary psychiatric drugs) and I think for me it's better. I see no reason to tell a new acquaintance or friend what I went through unless it's imperative. There is a new friend who's on a neuroleptic and I almost told her my story in hopes she not repeat it drug wise.

 

I appreciate you sending me the link to Forgiveness because I need to forgive me. That is what is the most important.

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mammaP

I have read a lot of the posts here and felt for anyone with a toxic relationship.

I thanked my lucky stars that I have a lovely family.

Then I came here to stay with my daughter. I discovered that far from

being the lovely family I thought we were, I am actually the

typical toxic matriarch. Things I do or say have been taken out of context for years

and have just been brought to my attention. I am devastated that I made them feel that way.

One example is babies. That gorgeous baby smell, all sweet milk and baby shampoo.

Or just spag bol in their hair when they've tried to feed themselves. That sleepy smell when they

have a snuggly nap on your lap. Yankee candles can't produce any of those and I just love it.

But apparently I am sniffing the baby to see if her parents have been smoking over her.

She never smells of smoke and i WOULD NEVER THINK THEY DID. They talk about how nasty I am to do such a thing.

I can't say any more I'm too upset. I wish I hadn't come here.

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primrose

This topic makes me feel so sad for everyone who has toxic

family. :( I wish I could make things better for everyone.

Hugs for everyone who needs them. XXX

 

Thank you.

Hugs back x

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primrose

I'm our family's scapegoat, and the token drug addict.

 

It's not thier fault. My parents are deeply disturbed, they must be to do what they did.

They are disturbed because, they, themselves, suffered damage, but they are afraid to face their own inner pain, and so, they ended up taking it out on me, and breaking my spirit.

I'm not excusing them when I say it isn't their fault. Maybe they suffered even worse abuse which caused their damage. How do I know, that if I hadn't gone what they went through, that I wouldn't have done the same?

 

Nowadays, I prefer to keep contact with them to a minimum, it's easy as I live 300miles away. I like to keep contact to a minimum, because when I am around them, or engaging with them in any way, my mental health suffers, so, while they are my only parents, and could die at any time as they are old, I also have a personal responsibility to maintain as good mental health as possible, because I am most likely negatively affect others with bad mental health.

 

It's a shame, but I have grieved the loss of them, as if they were no longer here, because, the nurturing parent that I need and needed was/is never there, and never will be.

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Barbarannamated

I have read a lot of the posts here and felt for anyone with a toxic relationship.

I thanked my lucky stars that I have a lovely family.

Then I came here to stay with my daughter. I discovered that far from

being the lovely family I thought we were, I am actually the

typical toxic matriarch. Things I do or say have been taken out of context for years

and have just been brought to my attention. I am devastated that I made them feel that way.

One example is babies. That gorgeous baby smell, all sweet milk and baby shampoo.

Or just spag bol in their hair when they've tried to feed themselves. That sleepy smell when they

have a snuggly nap on your lap. Yankee candles can't produce any of those and I just love it.

But apparently I am sniffing the baby to see if her parents have been smoking over her.

She never smells of smoke and i WOULD NEVER THINK THEY DID. They talk about how nasty I am to do such a thing.

I can't say any more I'm too upset. I wish I hadn't come here.

 

MammaP,

 

I'm so sorry for the hurt you're feeling. I hope that when the hurt calms a bit, you may be able to talk things out..?

 

Consider yourself hugged. B

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mammaP

While reading another thread things fell into place.

I have always been close to my kids but over the last few months things have

changed a bit. I go stay with youngest about every 3 months and we've all got

on great. They even wanted me to move in with them. Then things changed one

time and she really had a go at me, ranting about all kinds of things.

 

She had been feeling down after having the 2nd baby and had been put on

citalopram. Next visit she was so wired she was almost hysterical most of

the time, and even though she had been crying uncontrollably on the phone

before I went, it was all my fault and she was fine before I got there!!!

 

I had to fly down there, 500miles, at the drop of a hat because she wasn't

coping but it was my fault. Then I asked her about the tablets and she said

she stopped them because she felt better. That explained everything to me!

She went back on them but fell out with me when I told her to stop screaming.

She was hysterical and had thrown a pan of hot food,

scared the boys and was out of control. She isn't like that AT ALL,she is a

brilliant mummy and on top of things.

She also feels inadequate around her MIL and SIL, but it is all MY fault

 

Now you and I know what's happening but they don't!

One is telling lies and the other is believing them.

I've done my best for both of them and love them dearly

but now I think it's time to step back and take care of me.

I could start producing evidence but I don't want to pit one against

the other so will sit tight and take care of myself for a change.

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Barbarannamated

MammaP,

 

It is good that you've seen what is going on and can step back and take care of yourself. I know how difficult that is for those of us who are natural caretakers and helpers. I struggle every day, feeling that I *should* be doing something to fix my family.

 

Perhaps the greatest lesson in all this is that we must first take care of ourselves.

 

B~

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alexjuice

Barb,

 

I don't think there's anything you can to fix your family, not if yours is remotely like mine. I've been much more dependent on my family in the last year and I've realized that my family members are simply unhealthy and it's not in my power to fix them. My mother for instance, is constitutionally dishonest and conflict averse. The conflict aversion causes the dishonesty. For instance I had a bad experience with a chiropratic healer she insisted I see. I told her about it and she became very distraught and told me she wasn't going to continue seeing the chiropractor. She cancelled her apponitments on the phone in front of me in a demonstrative manner. However as time went by she resumed seeing the chiropractor but in a very sneaky way b/c 'she didn't want to upset me.'

 

The truth is I don't care if she sees that chiropractor or not but I do wish she would be she wouldnt sneak around if she decides to change her mind. I don't know why she doesn't talk to me in an upfront manner but she is not capable of it, I have learned, thus I frequently hear how she has done the exact opposite of what she told me she intended to do...

 

Unfortunately, in my family there is a very 'out for oneself' instinct and my mother leads the way in this regard, which is why I went to seek outside help in the first place. So it's quite common for my mom to tell me one thing about her intentions, usually what she thinks I want to hear, but then she will actually do whatever it is she wants to do and hope I don't ever find out. She doesn't understand that I don't particularly care if she does the thing or not but that I do care bout expectations and intentions being fulfilled in an open and trust building way...

 

Sadly, she is so conflct averse that she will not be honest if she fears another person will not like what she has to say. There is no fixing this, it's her survivial instinct. However, the effect is constantly undermining in our relationship because there have been numerous instances where she promises to do something and then doesn't do it and this has a destabilising effect in a relationship.

 

Oh well. Sigh.

 

The saddest part is that she'll assure me she will or won't do something, then she will get uncomfortable and do whatever she said she wouldn't.. Eventually, I'll hear about this from another person. When I ask her about it she always tells me that she is sorry and she doesn't know why did the exact opposite of what she promised to do... There are about 10 major examples of this in my life where I was completed disappointed that what I was expecting did not happen and the thing that she said would not happen did...

 

It would be easier if she was a bad actor but she really feels bad each time she contradicts herself. She really can't help it. She always means to do what she says but in the end, she typically does the easiest thing for her, doesn't speak up when someone else's feelings might get hurt and then feels terrible that she can't be trusted to follow through with her word... Sigh again.

 

Knowing I can not fix this is a burden off my shoulders. I love my mom and I see 'problem areas' in advance where I no longer expect her to be able to keep a commitment and I try to adjust my expectations accordingly.

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areyouthere

 

 

Knowing I can not fix this is a burden off my shoulders. I love my mom and I see 'problem areas' in advance where I no longer expect her to be able to keep a commitment and I try to adjust my expectations accordingly.

 

 

You are a very astute in figuring this out. Yeah, it took TEN TIMES but that is 10 times of being hurt and then hurt again. Why did this happen?  Because 1) you yourself cannot imagine behaving this way yourself and so have a very hard time believing someone else,  would ( I feel this way about gossipers ) 2) she's your mother and and it hurts to acknowledge  that she didn't get & or couldn't stop hurting  you... a LOT.

 

Acceptance is a beautiful thing. I may have misinterpreted your situation ... but it struck a nerve. I'm sorry you were/ are hurt by your Mom. My Mom continues to hurt me as well. 

 

RU

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MaryKA

 

BTW I am immediately suspect of anyone who is concerned about me because they are such good people. That it is patronizing.

 

 

This is my first post on this thread which I should not be glad to see that there is so much to be said that it's over a year old.... I too have a toxic family. But for now....

 

Whatever, that's my attitude too. And also I am very wary when it comes to family being concerned cos they're family but still do not listen. That's soul destroying.

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Barbarannamated

To others having difficulty on this Father's Day... you're not alone.

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TrishF

When I lost my job, my home, my possessions, and most of my sanity, i tried to return to my family for a little safety net, after NEVER asking them for a thing in the 30 years since I left home, and they basically put me out on the streets. Let me stay for 3 months, but was still reeling for from my loss, and only finding part time work. No understanding or sympathy at all, just "you were fine before, you will be fine again".  Not even a small financial loan to help me get started again, after being completely financially secure and reliable all my life!  Trying to let go of the bitterness, but it is HARD to have no family to help. I have treated complete strangers with more love and kindness.  They just want to stick their heads in the sand. 

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