ravijaua: Paxil withdrawal hell

[JanCarol]

How many Big Boy Brownie Sundaes does it take to beat an Ativan habit?      (though I confess, I'm a little jealous - I haven't been able to have much dairy or wheat for years now, and while a Big Boy Brownie Sundae sounds awfully good right now, it would probably make me sick)

 

I am also wrestling with the "carbs as mood control" myself, right now.

 

It is preferable to use carbs to benzos, but it's still "turning to a substance to fix me," when really I should be adequate myself to adjust my mood, with mindfulness, with exercise, with just good living habits.

 

Please keep all of your drugs the same for at least a month, maybe 3 months.

 

If you can do without the Ativan, please do so, otherwise you may need to check in to our Members Only Benzo Forum and start a whole new protocol for dealing with Ativan dependance.

 

If you are having symptoms, that is not the time to change your drugs.

 

It seems counter-intuitive. You think, "I don't feel right, so maybe my doses aren't right."  But the cold hard fact is, the changes are harder than a "wrong dose" (except in extreme toxicity).  If you are "getting by," then stick with the doses you've got.

 

Hold.

 

Wait to feel better.  If you can hold long enough, and not make any changes, you will see what we are talking about, and experience it for yourself.

 

Holding is the best way to address symptoms, and you've had too many changes lately to consider reinstatement.

[ravijaua]

Yesterday was a terrible day. I am trying to stabilize on 16 mg. But I have bouts of SI/HI/Anxiety/DP/DR>

[scallywag]

Sorry you were hit with a wave. It's important to remember, even though sometimes it's difficult, that waves come and they go.

[ravijaua]

Really in a bad place now. Terrible anxiety, sunlight sensitivity, feeling hot all the time, exercise intolerance. Not doing well.

[ravijaua]

I was looking back at my old emails to reflect on my paxil experience. This is from May 25, 2011 8 weeks after I reinstated medication at 10 mg after trying a C/T. I was talking to a family friend for advice.

"I have gone back on my medication now for about 7 weeks at 10 mg . Until about one week ago, I was doing very well and I had no problems whatsoever. I was happy, cheerful and doing great. Suddenly, I started to have severe symptoms like burning in my hands, sensitivity to light and sound and anxiety. I was wondering why is this happening and what things I can do to get rid of this? Thank you."

At that time, I was so confused why would I suddenly go from doing well on a reinstatement to having withdrawal but of course I was having withdrawal because my dose was 20 mg. for 5 years before the C/T. I of course stabilized back on 20 mg later but it's funny how this drug cause effects that people claim are your anxiety coming back.

[ravijaua]

It's amazing how many threads I read and think this exactly happened to me but I didn't know what was going on. For example, I was probably progressively pooping out for about 3 -4 years with inability to exercise being my worst symptom but I didn't realize it. I just thought it was weird.

[SkyBlue]

Ravijaua, Yes! ! ! I really didn't know about "poopout" until coming here. I knew the Paxil had stopped working, but I didn't realize that it was A Thing.

 

You said yesterday you weren't doing well. Have you improved any?

[ravijaua]

So today and yesterday, some good hours and some terrible hours. Spent some time walking around the mall today and felt half ok but at times wanted to throw my phone at the glass wall in a store. Still have SI, HI, but no DP/DR. Anxiety up and down. Sleep terrible. Taking 0.25 mg Ativan but doesn't seem to be doing anything for sleep. Was on 0.5 mg Ativan X 18 days. Did 0.25 mg X 3 days, ok in terms of no muscle spasms etc no dp/dr. I think SI, HI, anxiety from paxil withdrawal not from Ativan or lunesta withdrawal. No lunesta since a few weeks.

[ravijaua]

Thinking of switching to liquid paxil at some point after I stabilize on the tablet form. Only I discovered the 1 mL syringes I had from months ago, like Nov 2015-March 2015 when I was doing 2 mg liquid Zoloft on top of paxil , the color on the rubber part of the syringes is coming off and I assume it would also come off into the liquid when I draw it.  I bought them on amazon. Anyone have a good syringe link on amazon that doesn't have color coming off.  Also tried 75 mg magnesium glycinate, way too weird and stimulating and anxiety provoking. 25 mg somewhat relaxing but also a bit weird. Tried 5 mg and this was really relaxing and felt better than the 0.25 mg Ativan. Weird how a natural metal ion works better than a phamarceutical , would love to slap my psychiatrist how suggested that I go on Ativan 0.5 twice a day.

[ravijaua]

do not buy these :

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FMYDLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

warning color is coming off. I guess it has been 10 months since I bought them but I don't think the color dye on the rubber part should ever come off.

[ravijaua]

Edit of last post sorry it is these syringes that the dye is coming off. The previous ones worked great and the dye never came off. I probably should reorder them. Don't order these.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XZ96DOA/ref=cm_cr_ryp_prd_ttl_sol_0

I have a whole box of 100 and I used like 10 of them. I noticed that today a few syringes that were sitting out for a month or so the dye is coming off on the rubber tips. I guess they are good for single use only but it is kind of scary. I checked new unopened syringes and the dye doesn't come off.

[ravijaua]

 

Easy Glide 1cc Luer Slip TB Syringe 100/BX (No Needle)

[ravijaua]

Worse day of my life yesterday. I acted out in public. I am really afraid now of what's going on. Usually even if I have severe anxiety I don't act out in pubic. Luckily nothing happened but I am starting to think I can't stabilize on 16 mg paxil alone as I never acted out like this when I was on Zoloft for 9 months, not once. I need to add something as I can't move forward like this. I don't know what to do.

[scallywag]

Without identifying yourself, please consider posting what happened?  It may not be as serious as you think.

[ravijaua]

I'm taking lunesta 0.75 mg and Ativan 0.25 mg. My pdoc says to increase Ativan to 0.5 mg twice a day but I don't want to fall into that trap. I honestly don't know what to do.

[ravijaua]

I got really anxious and started yelling in public at another person. I have never done this before. It was an unsafe situation.

[ravijaua]

I am considering add celexa or Lexapro as I am desperate and I can't go on like this, even though everyone says to stabilize it is UNSAFE for me to go one like this.

[ravijaua]

Prozac added cause me to feel restless and I had to walk/run 6 miles a day and exercise a lot. After a week, I couldn't take it anymore. Lexapro and Celexa both make me feel anxious but not restleless so maybe I can take it for 6-8 weeks and hope the anxiety goes away and my body stabilizes. I don't see any other option.

[scallywag]

We provide people with information to discontinue medications. We don't make recommendations about medications to add.

 

Please confirm that these are the medications and doses you take daily:

• Paxil 16 mg
• Lunesta 0.75 mg
• Ativan 0.25 mg

Please confirm that this is your recent medication history:

• 2006 - June 2015:  Paxil 20 mg
• Nov. 2015 - March 2016,
  • Zoloft 2 mg added to paxil, increased to 12.5 and 25 mg during this time
  • Paxil decreased slowly to 15 mg
• August 2016:
  • discontinued Zoloft from 12.5 mg
  • still taking Paxil 15 mg
  • tried Prozac 10 mg for 5 days, stopped Prozac

[ravijaua]

Yes absolutely correct

[scallywag]

What is your daily pattern of symptoms? Please take notes about when you take your medications and when your symptoms occur or change.
 

- Time and dosage for drugs taken in morning
- Time and description of any symptoms in the morning

- Time and dosage for drugs taken in afternoon
- Time and description of any symptoms in the afternoon

- Time and dosage for drugs taken in evening
- Time and description of any symptoms in the evening

- Time and dosage for drugs taken in middle of the night
- Time and description of any symptoms in the middle of the night (such as waking)

And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, such as:

6 a.m. Woke and vomited
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Had diarrhea
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Stomachache
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Headache got worse
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke with headache


... do this for every single day -- A daily diary.

[ravijaua]

I have a question that I hope someone can answer. I have been in tolerance poopout since June 2015. I was taking 18.8 mg then. I was taking 20 mg for 2006-2012. I did like a mild taper from 2012-2013. I think I tapered like a few percent per year. I wasn't really tapering but just taking a dose that didn't cause side effects or withdrawal. Had I known about tapering I would have done it. I probably took 18.8 from 2013-2015. I have been trying to stabilize for the last 1 year 3 months but I wonder should I be tapering. I mean I was stable some few months but before I could start tapering I would destabilize. Should I taper slowly even if I don't find totally stability. Because if I had tapered the last year and 3 months, my dose would be down to like 12 or 13 mg and I wonder would I be better off since maybe my body would rebuild receptors or will in rebuild receptors even in tolerance at the same dose. So confused please help! I followed brassmonkey and he seemed to do better with tapering in tolerance. Generally we say find stability and then taper but what if you can't find stability.

[ravijaua]

I was stable Nov 2015 - Feb 2015 and could have tapered those 3 months but I was so scared. I could have possibly tapered April to August 2016 as well.

[SkyBlue]

Hmmm… Maybe this is what brassmonkey means about "withdrawal normal." There is information on his thread about it. So while it is extremely individual, you're right that waiting until there are absolutely no symptoms might take a while (which of course is all right too).

 

However I'm just reading a post from above and you said that in August you:

• August 2016:
  • discontinued Zoloft from 12.5 mg
  • still taking Paxil 15 mg
  • tried Prozac 10 mg for 5 days, stopped Prozac 
• I see that now it's going to add bullet points to what I write.  
• This is a LOT of changes. Huge changes to the nervous system. Please consider letting your system stabilize before making any huge changes.
   

[ravijaua]

Oh yeah I'm going to stabilize for 3 months at least. But I just wonder if I should have tapered all this time the past year and 3 months like a slow brassmonkey taper. I could have tapered, I'm not sure if I would have been worse or better but could have.

[ravijaua]

I regret not tapering slowly from 2012 when I restablized on 18.8 mg after trying to CT in 2010. I achieved great stability then but I didn't know about tolerance and poop out. I just wanted to come over to lose weight. If I had known the med would stop working I would have tapered but of course no one told me. Everyone said you can take it forever , your body needs it. Why aren't psychiatrist taught to slowly withdraw people from ssris when they are stable. They just say you can take it forever.

[ravijaua]

What about starting smoking? Ftom what i can tell its better in the short run than benzos

[Athena]

Hi Ravijaua,

 

For me stabilizing meant that the symptoms were tolerable. Please be gentle on yourself while the anxiety and symptoms are difficult. Do any activity that calms your body, walking, yoga meditation...what works for you. And you will find stability. Patience is tough but it's the only way I found. I hope this helped and answered your question.

 

Love,

 

Athena

[ravijaua]

Thank you. I was just joking about smoking.

[ravijaua]

Btw do u think staying on a dose too long in withdrawal or tolerance will cause further worsening withdrawal or that your body will upregulate receptors

[ravijaua]

It has been a year and 3 mo and lots of exercise later and i dont understand why my rceptors havent fully upregulated yet for me to be stable on my dose

[ravijaua]

I just wanted to say tapering too too slow is dangerous too. As I did a micro taper without realizing it was a micro taper and I still developed tolerance. But I tapered like 1.2 mg off 20 mg over like 2 years and then held at that dose for 2 years. So lesson don't taper too slowly like at least do 2.5 % per 8 weeks. And never hold a dose more than 3-6 months.

[scallywag]

Stability for some people means no symptoms. For others, as Athena posted, it means that there are no wild swings in symptoms though they might intensify after a dose reduction.

If you've read brassmonkey's topic you'll see that he's tapered through ongoing symptoms at a level he could tolerate. Here is one of his posts about that:

brassmonkey on "Withdrawal Normal"

[Altostrata]

Edit of last post sorry it is these syringes that the dye is coming off. The previous ones worked great and the dye never came off. I probably should reorder them. Don't order these.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XZ96DOA/ref=cm_cr_ryp_prd_ttl_sol_0

I have a whole box of 100 and I used like 10 of them. I noticed that today a few syringes that were sitting out for a month or so the dye is coming off on the rubber tips. I guess they are good for single use only but it is kind of scary. I checked new unopened syringes and the dye doesn't come off.

 

Do you mean the color is coming off the black gasket inside? Or are the markings on the outside of the syringe coming off?

 

If you get magnesium citrate, you can put it in cold water and sip it throughout the day. This can take the edge off anxiety.

 

Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern? Please keep notes as Scallywag requested on Sept. 26.

 

You haven't been tapering for more than a year, you've been making a lot of drug changes. The nervous system craves stability.

 

Going off Paxil is especially difficult. Once your nervous system is destabilized, it can be difficult to get it to settle down. That is the source of your symptoms. Irritability can be one of them.

 

For the time being, you need to cope with the symptoms. Please see Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms , particularly

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Mindfulness and Acceptance

 

Good links for anxiety/worry

 

Inhabiting our bodies in meditation http://wp.me/p5nnb-aSX

 

Meditation can heal the brain which can heal the mind and body

 

Mindfulness, Meditation, and Prayer After Brain Injury

 

Pranayama Breathing for Anxiety and Depression

[ravijaua]

I have done art of living it is helpful for anxiety and sleep i just have to keep up with it which i will

[ravijaua]

During tapering and withdrawal , even without CT, have people felt periods where sexual arousal is very difficult.