spectio: Is this Depression or Withdrawal?

[Karma]

Regarding BP, I have always had lowish bp and when i have reduced too fast it has gone up to normalish figures, but to me this feels not normal. In fact, you can see the veins in the back of my hand and arms stand up and out.I don't feel right with 'normal' BP, i feel jittery and get palpitations. When i have slowed down my WD my bp has gone back down to lowish figures and I feel calm and 'normal. I addressed this with a doctor in hospital and they said they no idea why this happened. But it makes sense if you normal body composition means you have lowish BP and then you withdraw and experience constriction then your BP will go up. I try not to panic about that particular thing anymore and hope it will return to normal given time.

 

Incidentally my blood sugar rocketed at higher doses, now it is nearer normal. I wonder how many people end up on diabetic meds when it is a temporary issue?

 

I have read that people who naturally want to reduce their BP often use magnesium, but not sure how it works if you are sensitive to supplements.

 

I read an article that people with depression/anxiety often have sub clinical thyroid issues and one of the symptoms of that is low BP which sort of makes sense if your body is slow at distributing nutrients around your body, maybe it is these deficiences which manifest as anxiety/depression. So I guess a long term fix when out of WD would be to supplement diet and fix any underlying issues...though that is easier said than done.

 

Yes, yes, yes ... low thyroid function does result in depression and anxiety - thyroid needs cortisol to get to the cell receptors - it also needs sufficient iron. Heart palpitations can be due to low in-range sodium or insufficient iron. Hypothyroidism can result in high systolic BP readings. Just as we have found that pdocs don't really know what they are doing with antidepressants and benzos, I've found the same with endocrinologist and western medicine with regard to thyroid. There is more information in http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1593-thyroid-symptoms/.

 

Karma

[Altostrata]

A note of caution:

 

Hypothyroidism or hyperthyroidism can co-exist with antidepressant withdrawal syndrome.

 

HOWEVER, if you did not have symptoms of thyroid problems before withdrawal, it is likely your symptoms are due to withdrawal, not to thyroid issues.

 

There are doctors who will be happy to diagnose you with hypothyroidism on the basis of your complaints, not being very astute about interpreting the tests, and start trial-and-error with thyroid medications.

 

If you do not actually have thyroid problems, this can make you worse.

 

So do NOT jump to the conclusion you have thyroid problems on the basis of symptoms that are also withdrawal symptoms!

[InNeedOfHope]

To test blood sugar I just bought a meter over the counter. I read about diabetes etc and I read about acceptable numbers which I didn't have, it worried me a great deal and added to my anxiety to be honest. My readings were high earlier on after eating nearly anything, but now they are a better as I get lower in dose.

 

I read Diabetes 101 and like all the rest of this stuff there is more research out there giving safe numbers; numbers doctors don't advocate yet. I will use this knowledge post WD but do not test my blood much anymore as it can add to anxiety and I know it is improving.

 

I can't remember where I read the thyroid things, I read a lot of books, books like 'Stop the Thyroid Madness' as already said there is a great deal of misunderstanding about diagnosis and treatment. I can tell my symptoms change, overactive when i first reduce, under, when i reach a plateau. I know someone who had to have their thyroid removed for overactive thyroid, then went on meds for low thyroid for the rest of their life. After a period of time, part of their thyroid grew back and they had to reduce their medication, which just goes to show, if things are left alone and stress is taken away, some of these things will right themselves of their own accord.

[spectio]

Hi all: going through a long "dry" spell of no real progress. In about ten days, it will be five LONG months since I quit remeron. The last three weeks have been pretty much none stop intense anxiety, headaches, head pressure, nausea(and her evil twin, dizzyness--they always seem to travel together) and terrible memory issues. I did see a local G.P. who listened to my spiel, and decided I should see an endocrinologist. I'm still waiting for an appointment , even though I saw the G.P. nearly three weeks ago. At least the specialist does have the paperwork sent over by the G.P. I thought I had noticed though in the last ten days or so, that the anxiety was better. There are periods, especially in the afternoons, when I really notice things have slowed down and I don't feel as rushed(nervous). I guess the thing that concerns me the most is my blood pressure. When the symptoms are the worse, in the morning, it feels like my head is going to implode and the nervousness is really intense. It was interesting that a lot of you have low b. p. even after this intense anxiety. Have any of you experienced an increase in your appetite at the same time you're having nausea. That one really stymies me. I try to eat nutrient rich meals during the day, very little sugar or pastas, breads, alcohol. I eat plenty of fruits and vegetables. I can barely tolerate sugars anymore, eve fresh squeezed orange juice. I eat three meals a day most days. Within a couple of hours, I'm already hungry. I can be laying in bed early in the a.m. , at 5 or 6 or even earlier if I'm awake, and I'm already hungry. I don't remember ever being that big on breakfast but if I don't eat by 9 a.'m. I feel awful. The routine is still, for the most part as it always was. Very intense symptoms in the morning, lesser symptoms in the afternoon. After 4:00' the symptoms really get better, especially the nausea, dizzyness, and head

pressure. The evenings are pretty tolerable, but I'm pretty worn out and tired, but hungry. The hot flashes are still present, especially in the evenings, but may be abating a little. The early morning dread seems to have improved too, and some mornings, after waking early, I'm able to sleep a little longer and get six or seven hours. I'm putting this info out to keep track of things, and also to let others know how this particular withdrawal is going. Anybody out there going through remeron withdrawal? I am so impressed by those of you who have been on multiple drug "cocktails" and are bravely enduring withdrawal! You have my utmost respect and I think you are very special people!

[Altostrata]

Make sure to eat a good breakfast before 10 a.m. This matches your body's energy needs and can help regularize the appetite hormones.

 

Many of us have gone the full endocrine checkup route. It's possible there's something there, but don't be surprised if tests show nothing.

 

It does sound like things are changing in your nervous system, although it's not very comfortable.

[Nadia]

Hey Spectio... sorry to hear about this... it is so hard

 

I wanted to say that I went through a phase of being intensely hungry all the time as well, after a phase of being hungry but having no appetite and feeling sick if I ate. But then they told me I had amoebas, so maybe that was it (the hunger phase came about a month after I was treated for them). It's hard to make sense of it all. I DO think there are blood sugar issues with being on and coming off these meds, though. I can't tolerate sugar that much either... even juice, like you say.

 

Hang in there. The fact you can go back to sleep and get 6 or 7 hours is a good sign.

[Barbarannamated]

Spectio

My BP always ran very low prior to and on meds ~during and after Pristiq taper it is spiking although I don't take it regularly ~it seems to go with the anxiety which is dramatically improved --no early morning attacks •

I'm still on trazodone and Klonopin hs so I'm sure that's playing in and likely lessening wd symptoms •

[spectio]

Hi, all fellow travelers. It's been a few weeks since I checked in so thought I'd throw an update into my record. I really don't have too much new to report. Today is not too bad a day. I feel I have less anxiety, though it's still there in the background. Today I have more dizzyness, and not so much nausea. The mornings lately have reverted in milder form to some depression. It's like I wake up and realize I have to endure yet another day of these symptoms(whatever they are) and I feel so discouraged. The depression is there in smaller doses the rest of the day, but not as intense as early morning. For quite a while, maybe a couple of weeks, the intense early morning dread had gone, I had no depression, and the day just began with the usual nervousness, then dizzyness and/ or nausea. I do notice that my interest and motivation are particularly bad the last few weeks. At times everything about my daily routine just "nauseates" me. It's like I don't think I can stand one more day doing what I've been doing. Couple that with being dizzy and sometimes really nauseous and it is just barely tolerable. The evenings are, as before, ok, with greatly reduced, but not gone, symptoms. Sleep is ok. I'm still sleeping pretty normally, wake up around 5, back to sleep for an hour or two. Still struggling with stress intolerance, and the stress doesn't have to be anything major. I take no supplements, vitamins and try not to take anything over the counter. I can tolerate an aspirin once in a while. I took maalox for three nights in a row and it seems my symptoms were worse; nothing last night and symptoms today seem better. Right now, at 6:30 p.m. The dizzyness is mostly gone but I feel a constant undercurrent of mild/moderate nervousness. When will this ever end?

[Nadia]

Hey Spectio...

 

I can relate to everything you say.

 

It seems the nature of this is for things to come and go. Sometimes it's depression, sometimes anxiety, sometimes dizziness, sometimes dread... it seems to me they come in groups but not always the same ones. I wish you patience through this process. I think it's a good sign that you've seen improvement in some areas... I think the general pattern is erratic about how we move forward through this. Try to gain strength during the better moments and don't despair during the difficult ones!

[spectio]

Henry, Nadia, thanks for the reply to my wandering observations. How are you doing? It seems like just a few weeks ago you were really struggling with some bad stuff. Have things quieted down for you? You sound very focused and accepting. I'd like some of that. . It sure would make the rest of the "trip" more tolerable. How is meditating going? I was doing very well with that a few weeks back. Not so easy now. Have a sweet day, my friend.

[spectio]

Hey, Nadia, sorry to rename you. These iPads are very sensitive, especially if you're not paying attention.

[Barbarannamated]

 

It seems the nature of this is for things to come and go. Sometimes it's depression, sometimes anxiety, sometimes dizziness, sometimes dread...

 

How do depression and dread differ for you (anyone)?

I will check to see if there is a thread on this and, if not, will start one in Symptoms.

[Altostrata]

spectio, good to hear some of your symptoms are fading. Did we talk about magnesium? A little of that can take the edge off some of the unease you feel during the day, and it's good for you in general.

[spectio]

Hi, barb, for me, when the dread was at its worse, it was like gut wrenching depression. I remember feeling like my stomach was turning inside out. The one "good" thing was it didn't last very long, but usually was replaced by the nervousness. Do you still have episodes of it? I can honestly say I don't think it has visited me for a couple of months now. For the first 6 to 8 weeks, it was there most early morning awakenings.

 

Alto, thanks again for your magnesium suggestion. I did take it for a while but stopped because I couldn't figure out if it was helping or hurting. I think I will try it again.

[Nadia]

Henry, Nadia, thanks for the reply to my wandering observations. How are you doing? It seems like just a few weeks ago you were really struggling with some bad stuff. Have things quieted down for you? You sound very focused and accepting. I'd like some of that. . It sure would make the rest of the "trip" more tolerable. How is meditating going? I was doing very well with that a few weeks back. Not so easy now. Have a sweet day, my friend.

 

I'm doing a bit better now, on an upswing... thanks. Believe me, my acceptance waxes and wanes (minute to minute even)! I think what was toughest for me was getting worse and going through the whole anxiety/dread/insomnia thing again after being almost normal for about a month... I thought I had made it out. It felt like a crushing defeat. That same pattern happens to me in smaller ways as I get better and worse in smaller cycles... It's so easy to get used to feeling better, sometimes I don't even notice how much better I was until another downswing. And then they are so hard to face. What gives me hope is that I see a general progress. I particularly notice it in less feelings of dread and doom.

 

I have not been doing too well with the meditation, I really need to get back on track with that... I've just had so much work. There is so much to be done with the walking and the exercising and eating well and meditating and trying to rest! I really admire people that are going through this having to take care of children.

 

Anyway, one foot in front of the other...

[Nadia]

Barb, for me dread is like depression and anxiety mixed together. Typical depressive thoughts for me are things like "there is no reason to live", "I don't enjoy anything", "it's a tragedy to have to survive". While dread is more of a general feeling of horror... like I'm in a nightmare and everything around me is hostile and strange in a very uncomfortable and nerve-wrecking way. There's more depersonalization and derealization involved...

[spectio]

Hi, all: just an update. I really do think my symptoms are becoming more muted. Not to say they are gone, but just not as intense. Is anyone having issues with self confidence? This is so strange. . . There are things that I did at work for years, things that are not hard, but every time someone asks me to do these things, I cannot stop thinking about them. I practically make myself sick with the anticipation of doing them. I make myself do these things, as long as they aren't that hard, and once they are done, the dread of anticipation disappears. If I agree to do something the next day, I find myself dreading it the whole day before. On the other hand, I do not seem to dread trying new things, as long as they're not work related.

 

I really realize that this is what you call "neuro-emotion" and it is certainly part of WD but it does seem to be really imprinted on my nervous system. I just hate being afraid. It's just so illogical.

I'm tempted to think this fear is meant to protect my brain from the possibility of real stress, since my thinking processes are still not so good and I run the risk of genuine panic If something goes wrong. Boy, don't I detect just a small amount of obsessiveness with this analysis.

 

Any comments?

[Barbarannamated]

Spectio,

Your last comment

 

I've struggled tremendously with self confidence and ability to complete projects that's worsened over the years since I lost my career (forced onto LTD/med retirement by company) in 2001. Career was the one area I HAD confidence (as opposed to personal areas). I don't know how much is drug-related, but I think that may have played in.

I have difficulty comitting to what would have been simple tasks or projects in past. Fear of failure, not wanting to let anyone down, generally uncertainty in my abilities after so long. Very anxiety-producing.

Just noticed your comment that you have trouble with work-related things only. Is that where you have felt most confident and excelled?

In 2008, I went thru the classroom training, TB testing, background and reference checks to volunteer at a local hospital (Patient Advocate position which later became a paid position). Bought the lovely uniform. Then I was overcome by anxiety and the 'what ifs?' and bailed.

 

OTOH, I've done things with little planning or time to think that I was good with - driving across the country by myself during withdrawal, for example.

[fefesmom]

Hi Spectio. I have learned so much from the people on this site that what I have to offer is not new but it really helps. When you feel low/no confidence is the time you need to be most kind and gentle with yourself. This would preclude any blame or mind-f...ing about what is causing these feelings. They will go away eventually and it will be much better for you if you are kind and gentle when these feelings occur and remind yourself that they won't last forever. I know this is easy to say. It is also true and one of the most helpful things I have been given by all of you on this site. Take good care.

[fefesmom]

P.S. You are the best judge of whether to "make" yourself do something or to ease up and not do it for now.

[spectio]

Hi, barb and fefesmom, so glad you responded to my post. You're right bar, I really like not having any requests to perform right now. You're right about just doing things without that anxiety promoting pre-thinking thing. That seems to be what gets me. It's the expectation to do something, which implies you will be successful doing it. Where has our self confidence gone?

 

Fefesmom, thank you for your kind, thoughtful remarks. I will try to keep that in my heart. I guess we all get so fed up with feeling so impotent that it's easy to get impatient.

[Nadia]

Hi Spectio,

 

I have horrible problems with self-esteem and self-confidence lately, and like you, they are random, but almost entirely work-related. Of course, the more I think about them the more impossible they seem. I think it's like if you ride a bike and are smoothly going along, if you stop to think about HOW you are doing what you are doing, you can fall off! Suddenly the whole pedaling, maintaining your center of gravity, calculating distances between you and other objects, etc. can seem impossibly complicated.

 

I think the answer is not thinking about it too much and plunging into it, trusting your body knows best. Let automation take over. And not shying away from the task is really important. Taking the bull by the horns is what I tell myself. But the anxiety is there and it doesn't go away until the task is completed.

 

The strange part for me is that I can't make sense of when the anxiety is triggered and when it isn't. It seems like as time has gone by, however, I have been more able to keep the anxiety in check and feel it as something physical almost, and not let it take over my thinking as much. The frontal lobe overpowering the amygdala, I guess. But I do hope someday I just won't feel so much anxiety about every little work thing... Sometimes I just get in this rut of thinking "I'm not cut out for surviving in life" and "I'm a freak" and those sorts of things and end up feeling so down in the dumps. I guess the only way to combat it is with more positive messages about myself, and with distraction with acting instead of thinking, but it's hard.

 

It seems to me you are being very courageous and level-headed about this. Kudos!

[spectio]

Hi, Nadia, so nice to hear from you! What a battle we're in! I'm so glad to hear that im not the only one feeling this way, although it pains me to hear you're trying to actually "live" through this, too. I mean, how many of us are still trying to bull our way through day to day, feeling the way we do! I still have responsibilities, like everyone else does and these really do require effort and rational thinking to resolve. We still have homes to maintain, bills to pay, kids and animals that require our presence in their lives, husbands, boyfriends who we love and care about.

 

The one thing I can testify to since getting off AD' s though, is I can rationally think things out again. All days are not the same, of course. Some days are totally governed by this irrational fear, but other days I can fight the insurance companies for raising premiums, battle the propane company for expecting outrageous fees for a day late bill, and argue with health care providers for bogus tests and interpretations. I don't seem to have a problem with things like that. Sure wish my short term memory was better, though. Still battling that, but it is better than it use to be.

 

I just hate being afraid of work related issues! It really is like Pavlov's dog! The phone rings, someone wants me to do something, and I immediately begin fretting, and keep fretting until its done! I will do what you suggest, I will continue to try. It is funny, when I actually start doing the task, the anxiety starts going away and when I complete it, it's gone.

[Nadia]

I just hate being afraid of work related issues! It really is like Pavlov's dog! The phone rings, someone wants me to do something, and I immediately begin fretting, and keep fretting until its done! I will do what you suggest, I will continue to try. It is funny, when I actually start doing the task, the anxiety starts going away and when I complete it, it's gone.

 

That sounds just like me. Phone ringing = instant anxiety. No matter what the task I've been asked to do, it seems like an utter emergency and I can't rest until it's accomplished. For me the anxiety can linger, however, since many things don't have a resolution. Still, I think my anxiety has lessened quite a bit. In the past few days I've noticed I can handle more with a lower level of anxiety.

 

Hang in there! Yes... this is just "surviving" now. I hope for all of us that we rise above this, that we find meaning and purpose and moments of enjoyment to keep us going. Lately I ask for just that: the ability to see a purpose to life, the energy to meet the challenges. A sense of all of this being worth it in the end, for any reason.

[spectio]

Hi, friends, I was wondering if anyone out there is taking flax seed as a cholesterol lowering supplement? I took it years ago when I was on ad's. After a couple of weeks, I started to feel very sick. The Dha omega fatty acids conflicted in some way with the ad. I was actually able to lower my dose of remeron while still using flax and the combination really helped for a while, but then I found I was really depressed again.

 

My current question is, is anyone off their ad taking flax seed and do they think they are suffering any worse anxiety, etc? I think I will start at a low daily amount and build up to my previous amount, two tablespoons and see how it goes.

 

I'm interested in this because I'm finding I'm battling some daily a.m. depression and also have a 214 cholesterol level. Fish oil caps, even the pediatric dose seems to aggravate my anxiety levels.

 

Boy, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. Very frustrating!

 

Nadia, how are you? I didn't mean not to respond to your last response, but everything you said, and said so well, was right on target. That really is the day to day dilemma we all face. How do you keep going through this? I mean, if anyone has a reason to be depressed about their circumstances, it is surely all of us!

[spectio]

Well, just an update: I am so incredibly sick of feeling bad! There is some research out there about the ability of remeron to depress cortisol secretion. I'm thinking that after eleven years of daily use there may not be a return of any semblance of normal. I'm currently getting a work up from an endocrinologist and so far, nothing definitive. I'd really like to know what's happening either in my hypothalamus or adrenal gland. To me, my symptoms are a mixture of too much cortisol and too little cortisol. As the endocrinologist commented, if it truly is adrenal fatigue or burnout, it is a life threatening process. Whether I got here from the chronic effects of remeron or my poor stress coping ability over the years, I would like to know if there is something I can do to help myself.

 

My symptoms are 1. Poor to nonexistent stress coping ability; 2. Nervousness, worse in I the morning, but definitely there ALL day in some form; 3. Dizziness, worse in the morning but a real sidekick to the nervousness; 4. Headaches, again worse in the morning, usually, but some days, there all day; 5. Nausea, not anywhere near as bad as it used to be, but worse when the headaches are bad; 6. Depression, probably from feeling this way EVERY DAY.

 

Sorry for the downer report. After eight or nine years of less than adequate antidepressant action, two years of undiagnosed toxicity from the antidepressant, with daily nausea and increasing nervousness and head pressure, and now, this daily repeat of "Groundhog Day" after seven months of withdrawal, it's almost too much! I'm just sick of it!

[bubbles]

hugs...

Bubbles

[Altostrata]

spectio, that list of symptoms sounds like withdrawal syndrome, classically waves of subclinical cortisol elevation, low mood, and lack of energy.

 

Many people have pursued the adrenal exhaustion angle but it hardly ever pans out. Don't be surprised if your endocrinological evaluation is normal.

 

If you have surges of anxiety, your adrenals are doing fine. They're taking orders from higher up, in your brain. See What is antidepressant withdrawal syndrome?

[spectio]

Bubbles and alto: thanks for the posts. I really needed the hug, bubbles, thank you. Alto, I know these are probably withdrawal symptoms. I do have to cover some bases as far as satisfying family and friends. When I tell them what I think is going on with me I can hear the uncertainty in their voices. It's not only the medical industry that is doubtful of withdrawal syndrome, it is the general public. I would say rhat the public perception of antidepressants as valid treatments for depression is fully Indoctrinated into us, the tv watching, readers digest reading public.

 

Whatever my adrenal tests show, at least I can offer up that I had these things checked. And maybe some day, we can pool all this evidence together and present what we the affected have

endured in order to find answers. It definitely is all maddening to say the least!

[Barbarannamated]

Agree 100%- maddening

[Nadia]

Spectio, so sorry to hear about this. I completely understand your frustration, and the "groundhog day" of it all. I was just using that very movie to describe what I was going through to a friend a about a month ago! It was like repeatedly waking up into some horrible limbo...

 

But hang in there... I totally understand going to the endocrinologist. I am doing the same bit with getting my hormones checked. I insisted on getting my DHEA level checked as they say that goes down with consistently high cortisol (and also age). They thought it unimportant to check, even though it is a factor in fertility, but I convinced them. At least I'll know if it's normal or not, I tell myself. (And if maybe it's something I can supplement to see if it helps with fertility... I hear it's a big thing now in fertility clinics. We'll see what the doc says IF the results are low.)

 

It's funny how the medical profession overmedicates us, but at the same time seems to find nothing wrong with us when there is something definitely out of whack. I HAVE tested high on cortisol (31 microg/dl), but the doctors say it's not dangerously high and "nothing to worry about". But then you look at the range of "normal" (for the lab I went to, 6 to 19 microg/dl), and that says it all... it is so broad that it can't take into account your personal history or variation.

 

I've read the same thing happens often to women who are entering menopause... Apparently your estrogen can surge and be higher than normal, and then when it drops to "normal" again you feel awful and get symptoms, but when they check your hormonal levels they are, well... normal. So the doc says, "nope, not approaching menopause yet". I was talking about this with my cousin and she says she thinks it happened to her. She was having AM anxiety, trouble sleeping, hot flashes, nausea, etc., and the whole time doctors said there was nothing wrong with her and it couldn't be perimenopause because she was only 41. Only later did she get proof that she was right.

 

On the plus side, getting these things checked can set us at ease about some other cause we may be ignoring, some disease that needs attention, and that is a good thing.

 

How wonderful it would be to be able to know what is going on in our brains and how to remedy it. I fantasize about this all the time. Then I tell myself the closest thing I can do is imagine healing in a general way. Just like you can walk and ride a bike without knowing all the millions of complicated mechanisms involved, you can heal. Believe it!

[spectio]

Hi, everyone: has anyone had episodes of leg and foot cramps during withdrawal? Early in wd I had frequent episodes of these "pee in your pants" charley horses. Not so much lately but early this morning woke to one in my calf. Sometimes I can almost anticipate them and try to get in a really good morning stretch in bed. I think that helps them but never caught it in time this morning. I'm taking magnesium daily but sometimes not frequently enough. Could that be it or is this just part of wd? Any experiences? Just remembered, took one 500 mg niacinamide last night at bed time. Didn't notice any other side effect.

[Skyler]

Hi, everyone: has anyone had episodes of leg and foot cramps during withdrawal? Early in wd I had frequent episodes of these "pee in your pants" charley horses. Not so much lately but early this morning woke to one in my calf. Sometimes I can almost anticipate them and try to get in a really good morning stretch in bed. I think that helps them but never caught it in time this morning. I'm taking magnesium daily but sometimes not frequently enough. Could that be it or is this just part of wd? Any experiences? Just remembered, took one 500 mg niacinamide last night at bed time. Didn't notice any other side effect.

 

Hi Spetico,

 

I had leg and foot cramping. Not huge because Lyrica is covering for most, but they got thru when I was on 150 mgs. as opposed to the 280 mgs. I'm on now. Cramping is part of benzo withdrawal as well. They have awakened me in the AM, in the middle of the night, and the most embarrassing.. when I've been out and about and on my feet for a period of time. A couple of months back, a foot cramp came on when I was in a large supermarket parking lot. When driving out, I ended up stopping the car, taking my shoe off, and jumping out to put pressure on in the middle of the crowded parking lot for TEN minutes.

[Altostrata]

I used to have bad foot cramps, especially in the evening. Two things helped:

 

- Taking magnesium in the evening. (I can handle only 50mg-75mg at a time, you might be able to take more.) Mag relaxes muscles.

 

- Stretching feet. Your feet are confined in your shoes most of the time. They don't get enough exercise. Give them a good stretch against a wall or other object, or massage them and stretch them with your hands, 5-10 minutes at a time.

[Skyler]

I used to have bad foot cramps, especially in the evening. Two things helped:

 

- Taking magnesium in the evening. (I can handle only 50mg-75mg at a time, you might be able to take more.) Mag relaxes muscles.

 

- Stretching feet. Your feet are confined in your shoes most of the time. They don't get enough exercise. Give them a good stretch against a wall or other object, or massage them and stretch them with your hands, 5-10 minutes at a time.

 

Errg.. sorry Spectio. I seemed rather dour, less than supportive in my response to you.. in truth, I did not mind the muscle spasms all that much. The did not worsen, just were a nuisance. From my perspective, they were minor; if only other withdrawal symptoms would respond by standing on a foot until the symptom went away. I actually found the parking lot incident humorous so was not congizant as to how this might read to you. OUCH!

 

I suspect your experience is very different as I had the spasms in a small taper cut window.. for max 2 or 3 days running. Not like being bombarded with them at any time for days on end. I hope Alto's tips are of help, and you find relief soon. Keep us informed.

 

S

[Nadia]

I think a lot of the back pain I have that I relate to withdrawal has to do with muscle tension... and my feet did cramp up. Probably significant that in the past month that I've been doing better they have not. I stretch and massage them. Luckily I don't get those horrible cramps you can get, my uncle used to get those and yell with the pain. I hear that can be due to low potassium. I'm sure the magnesium helps.