spectio Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 Hi, everyone. Thanks to Schuyler, Nadia and alto for responses re:foot cramps. Havn't had any more in the last few days. A few days back, I took one 500 mg niacinamide caps, really didn't experience any short term problems but a couple days later I noticed I had developed one of those "canker sores" inside my bottom lip. I've had them before after eating something that did not particularly agree with me. Don't remember that happening so I assume it may have been the capsule. I assume the dosage was probably a bit too much. Not sure but haven't taken it since. I did notice during the next three days(same days as having the caker sore), my headaches and nervousness were much improved. Today, the canker sore is gone but my headaches are back full force. Any comments? Okay, an update on my endocrinological work up. I did something called a metapyrone stimulation test. It's supposed to test your brains ability to produce ACTH in response to the metapyrones suppression of the adrenal gland. No cortisol production, the Acth levels should sky rocket. Well, my adrenal gland reacted like a champ. It's still functional. This was the last adrenal test I had done. Also did a low dose dexamethasone suppression test. It came back equivocal, not conclusive. The doctor did say after the metapyrone test that my adrenal gland, etc is okay. So, the evidence continues to mount that this monster truly is AD withdrawal syndrome. In a way, I was hoping for some abnormality to come to light. At least then there sold be some therapy(?). That scared me too, though because prescribing cortisol for an under producing adrenal gland would take me down yet another nebulous and potentially dangerous road. Hope everybody's weekend is as beautiful as it is here in northern Nevada. It's 80* here and all my cats are sprawled out on my deck sleeping and enjoying the warmth. I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted April 20, 2012 Administrator Share Posted April 20, 2012 Hey, spec. I get 100mg niacinamide tablets (Source Naturals), you can cut them up. I take 100mg in the a.m. and 200mg at night with no ill effects. Don't know if niacinamide has the effects you felt, but it may be worth trying a much lower dose. Personally, I've found it's magnesium that has noticeable good effects on headaches and muscles. Good to hear you're reassured about your adrenals. No, you don't want to take cortisol. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
spectio Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 Hi, everybody. I think I need to revisit an old topic of mine from a few months back. When I first DC AD's several months back, I remarked in my history that I was also taking a blood pressure medicine called lisinopril. Alto at that time remarked how it was very possible this medication may be playing a factor in some of the symptoms I was having. I decided at that time to put it in the back burner and see how it went with just DC remeron. Well, I'm really thinking this also may be a problem. For the last few weeks I am struggling with many physical issues and coupled with a few results from my recent blood tests, I'm thinking I am getting toxic from the lisinopril, too. The headaches are actually getting worse. They are always accompanied by dizzyness, and if those symptoms are bad enough, nausea too. The headaches sometimes start when I'm still asleep, stay with me most of the day, and get better in the evening. I take my day dose of lisinopril at bedtime. The recent blood test showed low sodium and low white blood cell counts. I also am experiencing charley horses, coughing, on and off chills, and throat phlegm that really takes some work to dislodge. To me, these symptoms sound like a drug reaction. I feel sickish! Anyway, made an appt. to talk to my cardiologist's nurse practitioner(my dr. Is not available untl Aug!) and I think I should change medications. My psychiatric symptoms are a very small component of my health right now. Anyone out there have any other drug related challenges? Any comments? I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted April 24, 2012 Administrator Share Posted April 24, 2012 The timing of those symptoms seems a dead giveaway. http://www.drugs.com/pro/lisinopril.html ....Following oral administration of lisinopril, peak serum concentrations of Lisinopril occur within about 7 hours.... ....Symptomatic postural hypotension is usually not observed although it can occur and should be anticipated in volume and/or salt-depleted patients.... ....If excessive hypotension occurs, the patient should be placed in the supine position and, if necessary, receive an intravenous infusion of normal saline. A transient hypotensive response is not a contraindication to further doses of Lisinopril which usually can be given without difficulty once the blood pressure has stabilized. If symptomatic hypotension develops, a dose reduction or discontinuation of Lisinopril or concomitant diuretic may be necessary.... Symptomatic Hypotension Patients should be cautioned to report lightheadedness especially during the first few days of therapy. If actual syncope occurs, the patient should be told to discontinue the drug until they have consulted with the prescribing physician. All patients should be cautioned that excessive perspiration and dehydration may lead to an excessive fall in blood pressure because of reduction in fluid volume. Other causes of volume depletion such as vomiting or diarrhea may also lead to a fall in blood pressure; patients should be advised to consult with their physician.... ....and so forth.... Can Lisinopril Cause Hyponatremia? The lisinopril package insert recognizes hyponatremia as a potential adverse event but no incidence is reported.[1] In the primary literature, 3 case reports[2-4] document the effect of lisinopril on serum sodium levels. In each case, patients were taking 10-40 mg of lisinopril for varying durations (6 months to 4 years). On admission each patient presented with signs and symptoms of hyponatremia (eg, nausea, malaise, headache, lethargy, seizures, coma, respiratory depression) and decreased serum sodium levels (101-109 mEq/L). From the US NIH http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000917/ What side effects can this medication cause? Lisinopril may cause side effects. Tell your doctor if any of these symptoms are severe or do not go away: cough dizziness headache excessive tiredness nausea diarrhea weakness sneezing runny nose decrease in sexual ability rash spec, your cardiologist doesn't have time to look at what might be an adverse drug reaction??? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
spectio Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 Hey, Alto, thank you for your attention to my lisinopril dilemma. I talked to my osteopath (he's the one who knew the remeron was really a problem and helped me off) yesterday. He's a little reluctant to tell me to quit the lisinopril until he checks me out. I truly love this dr. He has always listened to me and agrees that traditional medicine is horribly lacking. He's also just started reading Anatomy of a Epidemic and is blown away by what he's read so far. But I can see his point about discontinuing meds he never put me on. So, I have begun tapering it myself. I'm sure its like any other drug. Your system adapts to having it and I probably will see side effects pop up. Just as depression is a side effect of WD from AD's, I assume there will be some elevations of bp with DC lisinopril. I thought I'd taper ten mg at a time. I know that's high but I have to get off this stuff enough to at least see if some of these side effects will lessen, particularly the headaches and dizzyness. Thanks again Alto, I really appreciate you being there!!! Will keep you informed. I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Barbarannamated Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Spec, Thought of this article about unified withdrawal concept. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1586-endocrine-withdrawal-syndromes-a-unified-concept/page__pid__14972#entry14972 I certainly don't understand it all, but thought it might be useful reference. The tendency of docs to add on drugs but not DC any is disturbing. I've seen this with my parents for years. They change docs and nobody knows why drugs were started years before so don't DC any. B Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment
Daisy Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Spectio, I am glad to know that you are tapering your dose of Lisinopril. If it is stopped abruptly, it can cause rebound hypertension. I do not know what the recommended tapering schedule should be though, Google would not tell me The main side effect I have seen when people take Lisinopril is a cough. Ace inhibitors are know for that. The other is what is called orthostatic hypotension. That means that when you go from a lying or sitting position to standing, your blood pressure suddenly drops and dizziness occurs. The hypotension (low blood pressure) is usually short lived. Changing positions slowly can help alleviate that. Daisy Effexor XL 2009-2012. CT 150mg Effexor XR 2012, Effexor XR 75mg 2012 then rapid taper to 0, Reinstated Effexor XR 13mg then updosed to 20mg, Tapered to 18mg Effexor XR 4/9/12, Off Effexor XL ?Reinstated Effexor XL 150 mgs August 2012, Crashed in November 2012, Prozac 40 mgs 2012 to Feb 2018, Buspar 60 mgs 2012-stopped 2015, Remeron 7.5 mgs as needed for sleep-stopped Feb 2017, Prozac 50 mgs Feb 2018 to March 2018, Lexapro 5 mgs March 18 2018 to May 17th 2018, Lexapro 2.5 mgs May 18th to May 26th 2018, Prozac 10 mgs May 15th 2018, Prozac 5 mgs May 19th 2018 to current day May 28th 2018, Xanax 0.25 mgs to 0.5 mgs daily for over 15 years. Increased Xanax to 1.5 mgs Sept 2012, Tapered Xanax to 0 mgs May 2013.Reinstated Xanax Feb 2017 at 0.125 mgs as needed, Gradual increase of Xanax to 1.5 mgs daily till May 22nd 2018, Xanax 1.25 mgs daily. Holding Link to comment
spectio Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 Hi, Barb and Daisy; thanks so much for the replys. Barb, when my headache subsides a bit this evening, I'll look over that WD paper. Maybe I can get some idea how to go about this lisinopril DC. And Daisy, I too looked around for any informantion about dropping down on the dosage. Low and behold, there's nothing. I don't get it! Barb you're right ! There's libraries full of info and encouragement on piling on more and more drugs, but a trickle of info and a truck load of denial when problems develop. Is there something wrong with this picture?! A few years ago, a physicians asst here locally tried to get me to add metformin and Lipitor to my daily regimen. I asked her what the Lipitor would do to my depression. I don't remember a satisfactory answer so the "free" samples went into the garbage bag. I'm walking every day, despite the dizziness and headaches, watching my diet, and just generally trying to keep care of myself. I'm hoping this won't develop into anything ugly. And if I can do tis without too much dr. Interference(like adding or starting more drugs), I would be very happy. I haven blood pressure machine so can carefully monitor things at home. Wish me luck! Barb, what's happened with your horses? I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted April 25, 2012 Administrator Share Posted April 25, 2012 spec, you can't get your cardiologist's attention to this? I would be doing the crazy woman dance. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Barbarannamated Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 spec, you can't get your cardiologist's attention to this? I would be doing the crazy woman dance. Need emoticon for that! Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment
spectio Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 Alto, am seeing an advanced nurse practitioner with a my cardiologists group next week. Her dad is a cardiologist with the group. I'll start there but for a few days I will reduce lisinopril to 30 mg from 40. I monitor my bp at least a couple times a day and always have. I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Skyler Posted April 25, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 25, 2012 spec, you can't get your cardiologist's attention to this? I would be doing the crazy woman dance. Need emoticon for that! . . . . As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule. Requip - 3/16 ZERO Total time on 25 years. Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10) Total time on 25 years. Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section. "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted April 26, 2012 Administrator Share Posted April 26, 2012 I'll take the banana! This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
spectio Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Star date 05012012. That was fun. Just thought I'd update my "log". It's been ten days since I started reducing my dosage of lisinopril. For six days I took 30 mg and the last four days I dropped down to 20. Most of the days since I reduced have been pretty good. I believe the headaches, dizzyness , nausea have gotten better . Not gone but better. I actually took a pretty good up and down hike in the desert yesterday. Even got a chance to visit with a couple of young rattlesnakes sunning themselves at the top of a hill in some rocks. The were well behaved and retreated to the safety of their rock cubicle. I decided that retreating was a good option for me too! Today, though, is not a very good day. Don't know if I overdid it yesterday or what. I woke this am with a pretty good headache and nausea, and dizzy. Just don't feel good. Have been laying low and not doing much. My bp so far has remained under 130/80. I think that's okay. I will see the cardiologist nurse practitioner on Thurs. It's interesting that during this ten day lisinopril retreat I've experienced more depressive symptoms than I have for the last few months since stopping Remeron. Also noticing more revisiting of traumatic, guilt inducing events. That also hasn't happened for a long time! I've read a little about ace inhibitors and their mechanism of action. They are involved in HPA axis manipulation, also. Don't know the details but that part caught my attention. So, the struggle continues. Was hoping this reduction would be smooth and I could report some real day to day improvement. I'm just hoping that I can totally discontinue all medications and get my life back. Don't we all! I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Daisy Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Spectio, You must be a Treky or just really enjoy Star Trek. I do too but never thought of starting my "log" with "star date." Very funny...it gave me a good giggle Daisy Effexor XL 2009-2012. CT 150mg Effexor XR 2012, Effexor XR 75mg 2012 then rapid taper to 0, Reinstated Effexor XR 13mg then updosed to 20mg, Tapered to 18mg Effexor XR 4/9/12, Off Effexor XL ?Reinstated Effexor XL 150 mgs August 2012, Crashed in November 2012, Prozac 40 mgs 2012 to Feb 2018, Buspar 60 mgs 2012-stopped 2015, Remeron 7.5 mgs as needed for sleep-stopped Feb 2017, Prozac 50 mgs Feb 2018 to March 2018, Lexapro 5 mgs March 18 2018 to May 17th 2018, Lexapro 2.5 mgs May 18th to May 26th 2018, Prozac 10 mgs May 15th 2018, Prozac 5 mgs May 19th 2018 to current day May 28th 2018, Xanax 0.25 mgs to 0.5 mgs daily for over 15 years. Increased Xanax to 1.5 mgs Sept 2012, Tapered Xanax to 0 mgs May 2013.Reinstated Xanax Feb 2017 at 0.125 mgs as needed, Gradual increase of Xanax to 1.5 mgs daily till May 22nd 2018, Xanax 1.25 mgs daily. Holding Link to comment
Nikki Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 "I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck." Spectio this is me too...deterioration in thinking, depression, nervousness. Waking up dreading another day of feeling like this, unsure of myself. And loss of confidence. Lots of confusion about direction of my life. Feel stuck too. I am on 40mgs. Celexa and feel the way you do, so something is wrong with me on Celexa. Did you have any life changing incidents in the last 2 years? I found that incidents or changes exacerbated the issue. Hugs Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/ Paxil 1997-2004 Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries Lexapro 40mgs Lexapro taper (2years) Imipramine Imipramine and Celexa Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each 45mgs. Serzone 50mgs. Imipramine Link to comment
spectio Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 Good morning, Nikki and Daisy, I'm glad you got a chuckle out of old star trek dialogue. Still love that program! Nikki, I really think all these awful things you and I have and/or are still experiencing are directly related to these drugs. No doubt about it! Our brains have just had it with the poisons! Please don't accuse yourself of being defective or that you're doing it to yourself with the way you think. After being off the remeron now for almost eight months, most of that early discontinuation "neuro emotion" is gone. I don't constantly feel bad about everything I do. The best advise I can give to you is to take care of yourself the best you can, now and for sure after you've totally quit the drugs. I really believe our bodies and brains will remember how it was to be without drugs, and we will finally feel good again! I have to believe that!, All of us have been on meds for a very long time and I think it unreasonable to believe change will happen over night. It will take time, and lots of it!, Eat right, get some exercise every day, be gentle with your expectations. We'll get there, Are you currently tapering onto or off of celexa? Hang tight, Nikki. Huggs to you, too!!! Oh, to answer your question, the only life changing event the last couple of years was discontinuing remeron. I did close my vet practice a year and a half ago but only because neighbors bought the building and showed me the door. It was good timing because I was at mid taper and was feeling pretty much the way you do now, plus, the anxiety was horrible. I couldn't risk an animals life in my hands at that point! I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Nikki Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 You are a Vet....that is terrific. You have a career and an admirable one at that. Do you sit back and think about putting a plan together to get back into practice? I have a pet sitting business....love animals. Spectio there are a stories here about lots of people not being able to work due to WD. Work was a good antidote for me....still is. Up and out the door. A purpose. When I am home or bored my mind goes places. Busy is better. I am on 40mgs. Celexa and about two weeks back I was shaving granules off of the pills and then stopped. As Alto put it-it is quessestimating. So I have sent an email to the Nurse Practitioner (we can do that with her) and told her how I am feeling and that Celexa is not really for me. I have requested the liquid in conjunction with pills to begin the world's slowest taper. I keep telling my mother that my thinking isn't right and I am having a great deal of difficulty seeing the glass as half full. I can usually get relief or find an answer in talking to friends and practicing positive thoughts and alot of journaling.....not happening. This is what makes me think this is a chemical issue. My Mom is Italian American, from Brooklyn and Catholic:) So she keeps telling me to turn all of this over to God. And I do like to do that, but I am stuck in being able to help myself. Her advise this morning was not to look back on the drugs, but to move forward, focus on my business, keep doing the next right thing and turn the rest over to God (Higher Power). Gotta Love Her:) Nice speaking with you:) Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/ Paxil 1997-2004 Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries Lexapro 40mgs Lexapro taper (2years) Imipramine Imipramine and Celexa Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each 45mgs. Serzone 50mgs. Imipramine Link to comment
spectio Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 Just checking In, everyone. I discontinued lisinopril 12 days ago and immediately started a beta blocker, lopressor for my b.p. The one thing I definitely notice with the change is that this three year going on four year unrelenting nervousness has improved dramatically. For that, I am very grateful. It's not totally gone but definitely 50 to 75 % better. I'm sure it's the result of epinephrine suppression. The nausea has improved. I do though still have regular bouts of headaches and dizzyness. But, they are not the same in intensity everyday. My b. p. is well controlled. Most readings are 100 to 110 over 60 to 70. Not sure if the lisinopril was causing the previous and/or current problems since many of them have followed me with the beta blocker. Karma, this ones for you. One of my previous blood tests showed an elevated Tsh level. It was a couple of points high. I had another Tsh test a month before that and it was in the normal range. A free T 4 test was run at the same time as both Tsh tests and the results were normal. A different lab ran both sets of tests. The adrenal Dr. would like me to repeat the test again. What do you think? I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Nadia Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Hi Spectio... glad to hear your BP med is making you feel better! '94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever. 1/13 Best I've ever felt. 3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows. 4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time. Link to comment
spectio Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 Hi, Nadia; so nice to hear from you. Please accept my sympathies for your Dad's passing. I'm so sorry for your loss and that you also have this trauma to work through on top of everything else. I lost my dad when I was 19. I'm happy you had your Dad in your life so much longer. What a blessing!! You are the strongest person on this forum I know and I'm so proud of the progress you've made. I know you'll get through this time and be all the more stronger because of it. I still read of your daily struggles and feel so much stronger just knowing you've come this far. If you've seen War Horse, you remind me of his capacity to survive the most horrendous challenges. He and you and all of us just want to have our lives back. One day at a time, my friend! I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Karma Posted May 18, 2012 Administrator Share Posted May 18, 2012 Karma, this ones for you. One of my previous blood tests showed an elevated Tsh level. It was a couple of points high. I had another Tsh test a month before that and it was in the normal range. A free T 4 test was run at the same time as both Tsh tests and the results were normal. A different lab ran both sets of tests. The adrenal Dr. would like me to repeat the test again. What do you think? Hey Spectio, I would repeat the test and get Free T3 and Free T4 ... note that your Free T4 probably is fine, T4 is the storage form of the thyroid hormone and when it is over 1.4 it generally indicates a reverse T3 problem where the inactive form of T3 is attaching to your cell receptors and is blocking the active form from getting to the cells. If your Free T3 is in the lower end of its range it could indicate a problem. I had a friend who had a Free T3 of 2.3 with a normal range of 2.2 - 4.4 and she had symptoms of hypothyroidism ... she had a hard time finding a doc to treat her, but finally got T3 and it helped her resolve her fatigue and poor sleep. (T3 is the active form of the thyroid hormone - it gives energy). I think I linked a good article with citations in the thyroid thread recently ... it talks about how the current TSH normal ranges tend to keep people with hypothyroid conditions, hypothyroid. If I had a TSH that was above normal, I would demand treatment ... but that is based on my personal journey - I pushed, forced and fired doctors until I got treatment that allowed me to be free of pain, fatigue and depression - now there is no going back for me. Personally I don't accept "your labs are normal" from any doctor, I get a copy of all of my labs. I'm not a medical professional - just a patient sharing my experience - I hope something here is helpful. Karma 2007 @ 375 mg Effexor - 11/29/2011 - 43.75 mg Effexor (regular) & .625 mg Xanax 200 mg Gabapentin 2/27/21 - 194.5 mg, 5/28/21 - 183 mg, 8/2/21 - 170 mg, 11/28/21 - 150 mg, 4/19/22 - 122 mg; 8//7/22 - 100 mg; 12/17 - 75mg; 8/17 - 45 mg; 10/16 40 mg Xanax taper: 3/11/12 - 0.9375 mg, 3/25/12 - 0.875 mg, 4/6/12 - 0.8125 mg, 4/18/12 - 0.75 ; 10/16 40mg; 1/16 0.6875 mg; at some point 0.625 mg Effexor taper: 1/29/12 - 40.625 mg, 4/29/12 - 39.875 mg, 5/11/12 - Switched to liquid Effexor, 5/25/12 - 38 mg, 7/6/12 - 35 mg, 8/17/12 - 32 mg, 9/14/12 - 30 mg, 10/19/12 - 28 mg, 11/9/12 - 26 mg, 11/30/12 - 24 mg, 01/14/13 - 22 mg. 02/25/13 - 20.8 mg, 03/18/13 - 19.2 mg, 4/15/13 - 17.6 mg, 8/10/13 - 16.4 mg, 9/7/13 - 15.2 mg, 10/19/13 - 14 mg, 1/15/14 - 13.2 mg, 3/1/2014 - 12.6 mg, 5/4/14 - 12 mg, 8/1/14 - 11.4 mg, 8/29/14 - 10.8 mg; 10/14/14 - 10.2 mg; 12/15/14 - 10 mg, 1/11/15 - 9.5 mg, 2/8/15 - 9 mg, 3/21/15 - 8.5 mg, 5/1/15 - 8 mg, 6/9/15 - 7.5 mg, 7/8/15 - 7 mg, 8/22/15 - 6.5 mg, 10/4/15 - 6 mg; 1/1/16 - 5.6 mg; 2/6/16 - 5.2 mg; 4/9 - 4.8 mg; 7/7 4.5 mg; 10/7 4.25 mg; 11/4 4.0 mg; 11/25 3.8 mg; 4/24 3.6 mg; 5/27 3.4 mg; 7/8 3.2 mg ... 10/18 2.8 mg; 1/18 2.6 mg; 4/7 2.4 mg; 5/26 2.15mg; 8/18 1.85 mg; 10/7 1.7 mg; 12/1 1.45 mg; 3/2 1.2 mg; 5/4 0.90 mg; 6/1 0.80 mg; 6/22 0.65 mg; 08/03 0.50 mg, 08/10 0.45 mg, 10/05 0.325 mg, 11/23 0.2 mg, 12/14 0.15 mg, 12/21 0.125 mg, 02/28 0.03125 mg, 2/15 0.015625 mg, 2/29/20 0.00 mg - OFF Effexor I am not a medical professional - this is not medical advice. My suggestions are based on personal experience, reading, observation and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers Link to comment
spectio Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 Hi, everyone, It's been a while, almost three weeks since I updated my never ending saga. I gave the beta blocker my best shot and have come to the conclusion no one who has ever suffered from depression, sleep or breathing issues should touch this stuff. This was not a good choice for me for controlling my b. p. I'm not sure it would be a good choice for anyone with blood pressure issues. As with any drug, there's always a ton of trade offs. Beta blockers take a lot more than they give back. I was hoping that some of my WD symptoms would be helped by the lowering of adrenaline but after a couple weeks, the pre-existing headache, nausea and dizzyness also worsened. This, along with the disrupted sleep and depression, caused our brief dalliance to come to a end. I began to taper off the beta blocker eight days ago. I am now on 1/4 of a 50 mg tablet. I have not yet started another b.p. med because I'm really leary of going down another blind alley. You can only get hit over the head so much. The new problem is in the morning my b.p is in the hypertensive range, already. This morning it was 150/90. After a couple of hours it came down into the normal range, never higher than 130/80. I'm still dizzy, headachey, and sometimes nauseous, even when my b.p. is in the normal range. So, my dilemma is wait a few more days and see how things develop, or start a calcium channel blocker tonight. It's the only class of b. p. meds I haven't been on. My sleep is okay, no more depression and I was able to go back to exercising this morning because I can now breathe. Anyone out there have any suggestions? I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
spectio Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hello, everyone. An update for myself and anyone else who can benefit from my " experimentation " era. I've taken a calcium channel blocker now to control my b.p. for going on three weeks. I've gotten pretty good control on my numbers at a fairly low dose. In the evenings, though, I'm getting some breakthrough hypertension in the low to moderate hypertension range. The last two days, I've doubled the dosage. I figured I wouldn't get any crazy results in only two days and I'd be checking in with the cardiologist on Monday anyway. What I have found today though is that my anxiety levels are off the chart. They haven't been real good anyway for a long, long time. It 's had me thinking that this "anxiety" really is akathisia. I'm reading this morning that some calcium channel blockers do lead to akathisia. So, now I have chronic akathisia from twelve years of mirtazapine plus two weeks of geodon, complicated by two weeks of cardizem. I must add though that my b. p. is now in the normal range. Great trade-off! I have my first appt. with a neurologist at the end of July. I need to change b.p. meds, again. I'm running out of options. I took an ace inhibitor for years until the chronic cough was just too much to bear. The beta blocker left me depressed, sleepless and exercise intolerant because I couldn't breathe. Now this with the increased akathisia with the CCB. Is there anyone here with b.p. issues and akathisia that has found some drug that works. No, I don't want anymore drugs. I've found that the few days between taking these b.p. meds are wonderful. Many of the symptoms are better, I feel more hopeful. After about a week, though my b,p. goes back up and I'm stuck on the "guinea pig" treadmill again taking yet another drug. Any advise would be soooo welcomed. Thanks, everyone! I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Nikki Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Spectio I can relate to beta blockers causing a residual depression. However on occasion I do take Propanolol for bad anxiety. I take lisinopril for HBP 40mgs. and it seems to work. In my case, I do believe that ssri's can bump up the blood pressure. My brother who has HBP takes a water pill in addition to the HBP med. There are water pills at the health food store which are made of uva ursi and parsley which work. He takes something else which is a natural supplement. You can google that. Sorry this is mostly what I know about HBP. Nikki Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/ Paxil 1997-2004 Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries Lexapro 40mgs Lexapro taper (2years) Imipramine Imipramine and Celexa Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each 45mgs. Serzone 50mgs. Imipramine Link to comment
spectio Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hi, Nikki. Thanks so much for the prompt reply. I, too was on lisinopril at 40 mg for about three years. Along with headaches, nausea, dizzyness, I was having chronic coughing sessions. They came a lot a night. I wasn't sure the lisinopril had anything to do with the first three symptoms but the cough definitely was. That is thankfully, gone. Are you having any coughing issues on lisinopril? I'm thinking, at this point, that the headaches, nausea, dizzyness is still an after effect of the AD's. That really hasn't changed through using these other b.p. meds. I'm really fascinated that more people aren't having b.p. issues , especially after having persistent anxiety as a result of the use of these pdrugs. THANKS AGAIN, NIKKI! I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Jemima Posted June 25, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted June 25, 2012 I take a calcium channel blocker called Isradipine, 2.5 mg. twice a day. It's available in a far more expensive form under the brand name Dynacirc (made by Glaxo), which is time-released and carries more side effects (doesn't mix with grapefruit, alcohol, and heaven knows what else). The calcium channel blockers aren't all alike in my experience. At one point long before I was given antidepressants, I was taking Procardia for a circulatory problem (Reynaud's Phenomena) and it gave me nightmares. My BP was all over the board when I was going through withdrawal from Lexapro. I've been off of Lexapro slightly over six months and my BP has normalized on the low side. I may not even need BP meds any more, but finding out isn't a high priority at the moment. It took a lot of trial and error to find a BP drug that worked for me. Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's RazorIntroduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/ Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers. Link to comment
Sally3 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hi all - I am new to this thread and have read it in it's entirety and have gained alot of knowledge from it. I am tapering off of Prozac and having similar problems with depression and anxiety. But what I wanted to comment on to Spectio is regarding the BP drugs. I have been on Propranalol for 20 years due to a heart rhythm issue...I may have been depressed from it but I'll never know because I was also put on Klonopin and Prozac at approx. the same time. I was also put on 40 mg of Lisinopril to help my heart work more efficiently due to having to take the Propranalol. When I went off the Klonopin (cold turkeyed it 21 months ago) I lost 40 lbs and my blood pressure went very low so they reduced my Lisinopril to 20 mg. I don't think I had an issue with reducing it but I was in a horrifying w/d from the Klonopin, so I am not sure. I am slowly gaining back the weight but still on 20 mg. I am very depressed right now and am wondering if the Propranalol is playing into this. I don't even dare to try to go off of it due to my heart issue....I just wanted to let you know that the Lisinopril has given me no problem ever, nor has the Propranalol, but the Lopressor I was not able to take. Caused headaches, depression, just a yukky feeling. So there is a difference between the two beta blockers and just wanted to let you know that. I wish you luck with the calcium channel blocker and hope it helps you. Thank you for this long but extremely intelligent thread - I have learned alot and have much information to now look up due to all the links here. Sally3 Have been on .125Klonopin for 17 years....was tapered off rapidly (3 weeks)from a 6 week updose of 1.50 K....went back on .125 K and tapered off there in 3 weeks - September 7 2010...horrible w/d sx. Have been suffering ever since, although do get windows.Was put on 20 mg Prozac back in 1993 also...no issues ever with the prozac. Was told last summer to get off the Prozac by a psychiatrist who thought that my benzo w/d was really due to the Prozac i.e., jitteriness, shaking, nervous, anxiety and depression. He wanted me off in 3 months. I started decreasing 1 mg per months - am now down to 9 mg Prozac....feel like I have been tapering incorrectly. Introductory Post: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2439-sally3-i-am-new-here/page-1 Link to comment
spectio Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hi, Sally, thank you so much for the reply. You're right about the beta blocker. I really felt low on it and very restricted as to what I could do. It wasn't an option to take a drug that prevented me from getting some exercise. That's kind of important for health in general. I see Propanolol mentioned quite a bit as a treatment for akathisia. Do you have high levels of anxiety ? Is that part or partial of your withdrawal experiences? Thanks again for your experiiences. Will llook up side effects of Propanolol, too. I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Sally3 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I do have terrible anxiety while going through this w/d from a benzo and still tapering from Prozac. But I was originally put on the Inderal (Propranalol) for my heart arrythmia. I know I would have to taper it if I went off of it, but I don't intend to. However it doesn't seem to be helping much with my anxiety - when I'm in a wave the anxiety is very bad. When in a window though it goes away ... and so I am hoping that is how I will be when this is all said and done....and I am healed! Good luck to you Sally3 Have been on .125Klonopin for 17 years....was tapered off rapidly (3 weeks)from a 6 week updose of 1.50 K....went back on .125 K and tapered off there in 3 weeks - September 7 2010...horrible w/d sx. Have been suffering ever since, although do get windows.Was put on 20 mg Prozac back in 1993 also...no issues ever with the prozac. Was told last summer to get off the Prozac by a psychiatrist who thought that my benzo w/d was really due to the Prozac i.e., jitteriness, shaking, nervous, anxiety and depression. He wanted me off in 3 months. I started decreasing 1 mg per months - am now down to 9 mg Prozac....feel like I have been tapering incorrectly. Introductory Post: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2439-sally3-i-am-new-here/page-1 Link to comment
Sally3 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Don't know whether this is pertinent or not but when I first started on the Inderal, I was very very tired and I used to take it 4x a day and would get very drowsy after each dose. But then I was switched to Inderal LA (Long acting) and I only take it once a day and it presents no problem for me at all.....I don't know what dose or how many times a day you were taking the propranalol. Just wanted to let you know my story with that drug. Sally3 Have been on .125Klonopin for 17 years....was tapered off rapidly (3 weeks)from a 6 week updose of 1.50 K....went back on .125 K and tapered off there in 3 weeks - September 7 2010...horrible w/d sx. Have been suffering ever since, although do get windows.Was put on 20 mg Prozac back in 1993 also...no issues ever with the prozac. Was told last summer to get off the Prozac by a psychiatrist who thought that my benzo w/d was really due to the Prozac i.e., jitteriness, shaking, nervous, anxiety and depression. He wanted me off in 3 months. I started decreasing 1 mg per months - am now down to 9 mg Prozac....feel like I have been tapering incorrectly. Introductory Post: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2439-sally3-i-am-new-here/page-1 Link to comment
broomegirl Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Hi spectio, just wanted to say hi and thanx for yr help i am now wanting to move off my AD as it is causing so much grief more than my benzo so i hope i get help along the way Thanks again and wish me luck im going to get stable from my last drop of benzo then reduce my AD it will be hard but so is being on this poision huggs trace have been on prothieden for 20 yrs from my eary 20's taken off it in december 2010 was switched to mirtazipine on it now for 18 mnths,was on lorazapam for 10 yrs,stopped and was put on valium,on it for 2 years now,and doing professor ashton method dont know weather the mirtz is helping me at all anxouis,nervous,panicy,could be the benzo just dont know.(prob in tolerance but AD doesnt seem to help much except sleep) current drugs: valium 5.5 tapper mirtazipine 22.5(trying to stay on this dose was on 30mg) my problem both drugs work the same so confused what one to drop first Link to comment
spectio Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 Hi, Trace, you sound like you're ready for the next chapter of your life! You 'll be in good company! Stabilizing is a very good idea. And don't forget to take care of your body on this journey. Eat right, try to get some exercise, do things that make you happy. Don't be afraid to ask for help. Check in here frequently. Someone will always be here to help you! hUGGS! I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
spectio Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Greetings from northern Nevada,all! It is 106* outside so my cats are in various stages of heat related anesthesia , passed put on all sides of me. This is just an update on the ongoing struggle we all are having. In my last post, I was having issues with horrendous anxiety after being on Cardizem for my high b. p. discussed this with the cardiologist office. At the same time, my b.p. had crept up. At one point, I detected a reading of 162/90. I was taking my one tablet in the evening. Evenings we're whe the readings were the highest. They agreed the high blood pressure was causing the intense anxiety. This had happened to me previously when I was using too low a dose of an ace inhibitor. They switched to another calcium channel blocker, Norvasc, which is twice a day. After two weeks, my pressure is better and I think in an acceptable range. Trouble is, there is of course, a price to pay. There's where interpretation of symptoms gets very confusing. During my time on an ace inhibitor, somewhat on the beta blocker, and now, with the CCB, I still have anxiousness, nausea, DIZZYNESS, some headaches, and some depression. I know the accentuated dizzyness is from the CCB. Also, so is some of the nausea and depression. The only conclusion I can make is that the previous symptoms of never ending anxiousness(/somewhat better on the CCB), dizzyness, some nausea, are still there from AD withdrawal. For now, I have to stay on an b.p. med. I have an appt with a neurologist at the end of this month and don't want to get sent home after waiting two months for an appt because my b.p. is not adequately controlled. As far as the appt with the neurologist, I need to get information together in a concise form so that he will have all the facts in front of him. I don't think it wise to make the narrative twenty pages long. What should I emphasize about my medical history? Any advise would be sooo appreciated!! I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted July 12, 2012 Administrator Share Posted July 12, 2012 Tell him you had adverse reactions to Remeron throughout and great difficulty tapering off. If your symptoms increased after you quit, let him know what they were and how they increased. Because of withdrawal syndrome, your autonomic nervous system overall may be hypersensitive to any neurologically active drugs, including those to regulate blood pressure. Don't expect him to agree completely with you, but make sure he has information about your symptom pattern on and off Remeron. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
spectio Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 Hi, all: just checking in and updating my record. I changed blood pressure meds a couple of months back, from lisinopril to amlodipine. I still endure WD symptoms day after day but I believe my bp is controlled. A week ago, I developed a UTI, out of the blue. I hadn't had one since WD from remeron. While on remeron, for three or four years, I had monthly attacks. Don't know if the remeron was to blame but I highly suspect it was. Anyway, I always had a supply of macrobid just for such occasions. For two days I took it twice a day, thinking I'd probably be okay but the symptoms were still there so I decided to continue at one/day for another six days. Didn't think much about it but day by day I felt progressively sicker and sicker. My cognitive ability started evaporating again, I was nauseous all day, everyday, the dizzyness ramped up, my body temperature felt so hot, and I was really starting to feel intensely depressed about my predicament. It didn't dawn on my until I did some research online that macrobid DOES cross the blood brain barrier and I guess, causes issues with us AD recoverers. What is a person to do about UTI's. Mine are so painful I need something immediately. Does anyone have any experience with UTI's during WD? I'm allergic to sulfa, I take it we can't tolerate Cipro. There's not much left. The one thing about this experience is that it is proof in my mind that what is happening with me is indeed AD withdrawal. What other reason could it be that I could tolerate macrobid for four years but after one dose, I felt positively MANIC! Anyone with any experience with this problem, please chime in!!! I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck. Link to comment
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