spectio: Is this Depression or Withdrawal?

[Barbarannamated]

Spectio,

 

That's an interesting correlation you drew between UTIs and withdrawal. It seems several of us have had UTIs and some repeatedly. UTIs in themselves can cause delirium, presumably due to toxin accumulation.

 

It's best to have a Culture & Sensitivity done to determine offending pathogen. Then a targeted antibiotic can be chosen rather than shotgunning with a too powerful drug. That said, I believe that Augmentin or cephalosorins may be choices IF NOT PENICILLIN ALLERGIC.

 

Keep us posted.

[Karma]

I had a series of UTIs last fall and ended up on Cipro which sent me into terrible anxiety ... that's when I fell into withdrawal and found this community. (Finding this community was a good thing, but the anxiety and withdrawal were not a good thing).

 

I found a supplement that helped to relieve the symptoms and in some people it can clear up the infection ... it is d-mannose. I used the NOW brand http://www.nowfoods.com/Supplements/Products-by-Category/Womens-Specialty-Formulas/M035636.htm. It is a type of sugar that coats the bacteria and helps to flush it from your urinary tract. In conjunction with that I started taking 2 teaspoons a day of Smart Silver http://www.naturalhealinghouse.com/deseret_smart-silver.php to completely eliminate the bacterial infection. It took two bottles of Smart Silver to completely clear up the problem.

 

I found that an initial course of d-mannose did not completely clear up my UTI. I had to keep taking d-mannose and when I tried to wean off of it my irritation would come back. That is why I used Smart Silver. My nutritionist directed me to Smart Silver to naturally resolve the UTI. In the meantime d-mannose kept the UTI in check.

 

Another thing you can use for immediate relief from the symptoms is AZO standard. It is a pain killer so not a solution, but it can give you some rapid relief.

 

Karma

[Altostrata]

Maintaining an acidic environment in the bladder can prevent UTI infections. For example, taking vitamin C will do it. If you take a fairly high dose, such as 1000mg delayed-release twice a day, the excess gets stored in your urine and makes the bladder environment slightly acidic and inhospitable to the bacteria.

 

Cranberry juice also does this, but it contains a lot of sugar and you have to drink a lot of it.

[spectio]

Thanks so much, Barb, Karma, and Alto: I really appreciate soo much your responses to my "new" issue. Barb, back when I was having frequent UTI's, five or six years ago, I did have a complete urological work up, complete with everyone's favorite, a cystoscope. A great test if you need a visual confirmation of having a bladder infection. They didn't see anything else. I cultured with a methicillin resistant staph, was put on macrobid and that seem to control the problem. I was advised to take one a day. I did for a while, then lengthened the time out between doses so I was able to get by taking one capsule every five to six days.

 

After WD, I had no UTI's for eleven months. I have not had a recent C and S for many years. If I get a repeat infection, I will submit a sample and get it retested.

 

Karma, are you routinely taking the colloidal silver as a preventative? I'd heard about the d mannose when I was doing research on UTI's many years ago. They claim it doesn't work on any other infections than e.coli, is that right? Mine is staph. I'm not sure it would help but if you've heard anything about dmannose and other bacteria let me know. Is the colloidal silver expensive?

 

Alto, will start taking vitamin c right away.

 

Thanks, all. Stay cool!

[Nadia]

Hi Spectio... this is interesting that you and Karma both have had reactions to taking antibiotics. I found this site just like Karma... when my anxiety and insomnia ramped up because I was taking an anti-amoeba med (though not a conventional antibiotic--metronidazole). I had not been doing well, but I got incredibly worse.

 

So, when I got a UTI in April, I did whatever I could not to take antibiotics!!! I thought I had an e. coli infection, so I drank tons and tons and tons of a special concoction: hibiscus + cornsilk + horsetail grass tea. I also took something called "Urovaxom", which is dead e. coli. I had had a UTI years ago and the doc prescribed it for me and it made my recurrent infections go away until this year (it also worked for my sister, who had gone through years of recurrent awful UTIs and was taking megaloads of antibiotics with no effect). At the same time I was taking "Candida Clear", which has oregano oil, black walnut, caprylic acid, and pau d'arco... those are all antibacterials, so it could have helped. In any case, I beat it and didn't have to take any antibiotics!

 

But my boyfriend got it, and it turns out it's not e. coli, but enterococcus. He's been on two rounds of antibiotics so far and it will not go away. I wanted him to dry D-mannose, too, but I hear it's not effective for anything than e. coli. He went to a naturopath since the urologist's antibiotics were not working (and he has to be careful with them as he has gut issues), and they prescribed Cantharis and R-18 homeopathic pills, garlic tablets, and a tea of something we have here called "palo azul". He's also been drinking my special hibiscus concoction. He finally seems to be feeling better, but we're not sure if the infection is totally gone yet or not.

 

In any case, if you can get your hands on hibiscus tea, maybe from a store that sells mexican goods (called "jamaica" in Spanish), try it. It's has the same benefits as cranberry juice but it's not sweet. Also, eliminate all sugar and sweets and simple carbs from your diet as you can! And I'd give oregano oil a try, too. I think the most important thing is drinking tons of water to flush it out.

[Nikki]

Spectio I am the reigning Queen of UTI's. Just had one.

 

Cipro makes me crazy and I found out that taking ibuprofen and naprosin (Alleve) is a NO NO with Cipro. They cause anxiety, paranoia, hallucinations (for people with kidney disease), bad dreams, etc.

 

I will never take it again (I hope). E coli is becoming resistant to Cipro in people who have used it alot. The alternative is Keflex. ER doctor explained this to me.

 

For pain, if you take a percuset (one the first night and one again the second night the pain will completely go away with the least amount of medication. Pyridium helps, but after a few days it can alter your bilirubin count.

 

If you have spasms at the opening of the urethera you can use lidocaine gel. It helps.

 

I believe there is a connection between UTI's and SSRI's. The tricyclics cause urinary retention and by not completely emptying the bladder there can be more infections.

 

I did notice I had two infections while on Celexa which is terrific for me.

 

Pools give me UTI's - the Ocean I don't have an issue.

 

I can write a book

[spectio]

Good morning, Nadia and Nikki: It's truly great to be female!! Nadia, I wasnt aware that men gett UTI's too. That was the first time anybody ever mentioned that.

 

Nadia, I will chase down some hibiscus tea today. Sounds good!! I wonder if the walnut oil works because of the omega 3 FA aspect. Maybe the anti inflammatory nature of the oil helps ? Where do you get candidia clear?

 

Queen Nikki: I'm sorry you don't get to be queen of something that brings a lot less pain! What did you do with your latest UTI? Did you use an Antibiotic and what did you use?

 

I don't know about you guys but my UTI'S go from no pain to doubling over pain in hyper speed!, I know it's coming when I feel spasms in my bladder and urethra. If I'm in tune to things, I need to start something then before the pain starts. I do have Azo for pain but that is just a bandaid to the whole infection thing.

 

Im wondering because I just changed bp meds that it has something to do with this reoccurrence. Nikki, you talked about tricyclics causing urinary retention and I believe the ssris do too. I'm now wondering if calcium channel blockers do also. I know when I urinate, there always seems to be a little bit left over and unless I hang around to finish the job, some stays behind. Since I started the CCB, I'm up three or four times a night. You would think I have ample opportunity to empty out with all the trips but maybe I'm not totally emptying

 

I think I will focus on a couple of things. Like you said, Nadia, drink lots and lots of water. Urinate when the need first arises. Stick around long enough to totally empty out. I will have hibiscus tea available and also the colloidal silver that Karma recommended.

 

Nikki, what makes some of us more prone to getting these things in the first place??

 

Thanks tons everyone!!!

[Barbarannamated]

Hey Spectio. UTIs are another gift to women.

 

The female structure is far more prone to infection - tucked in and all, shorter urethra, thinner walls due to estrogen loss in menopause. I had kidney problems as kid and was instructed to always wipe front to back to not bring bacteria from back to front. Sorry if that's TMI!

 

I agree that these drugs cause or increase risk through the mechanisms mentioned and possibly by alteration of immune system.

 

Here's an article I pulled up: http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/urinary-tract-infection/risk-factors.html

 

I hope you're feeling better.

B

[Skyler]

 

I don't know about you guys but my UTI'S go from no pain to doubling over pain in hyper speed!, I know it's coming when I feel spasms in my bladder and urethra. If I'm in tune to things, I need to start something then before the pain starts. I do have Azo for pain but that is just a bandaid to the whole infection thing.

 

I think I will focus on a couple of things. Like you said, Nadia, drink lots and lots of water. Urinate when the need first arises. Stick around long enough to totally empty out. I will have hibiscus tea available and also the colloidal silver that Karma recommended.

 

Hi Septico. I get a UTI on average once a year. Ever since I had an episode one Memorial Day Weekend and ended up in the major trauma ER (a little overkill?) because no other source of assistance was available on the holdiay, I've kept antibiotics on hand. Sometimes I don't need to take them (drinking lots of fluid works, etc), and the symptoms just subside, but at others, when I would have needed care within 4 or 5 hours they helped. No more ER trips! My doc likes this too because I don't end up bugging him whenever a UTI starts as I can't tell in the first couple of hours if the infection will become acute. Win Win.

 

Bladders naturally keep a reservoir of urine to keep the pressure up, so never totally empty. Having some left is a good thing, actually we can't not have ...

 

PS.. kidney stones, not so good... one episode every two years (ain't life grand?). I keep flomax for that as it dilates the urethra. When drinking does not help, before the pain get too bad (the ER again, courtesy of an ambulance this time), I take said.. works great. Are really, my doc is a happier camper.

[Nikki]

Spectio the spasms in the urethera are awful. The lidocaine helps and this last time I self-catherized, just once to empty my bladder and to removed the tiniest of blood clots that can block the urethera which causes spasms. A clot can be the size of a pin head, but because the urethera is so narrow it will cause bad pain.

 

It also opens the urethera to allow urine to pass.

 

I put out alot of info in a previous post outlining what I've learned from experience. I've gone to the ER a number of times. They catherize, culture and treat. I have taken percuset as I said twice. The first night and second night only to end the pain and go to sleep.

 

Once you are on the 'right' antibiotic + pain pill the pain will subside in 24-48 hours.

 

On these two night a heating pad helps.

 

CVS drugstores have the One Minute Clinics and the Nurse Practioners will do a culture, take and prescribe a med. They take most insurance plans. It's about $80 and the lab has to be paid for.

[Barbarannamated]

Schuyler,

Flomax - for women?? I THOUGHT that was one of those drugs that women are not supposed to even touch with hands?? Kidney stones scare the c*** outa me.

 

EDIT: Sorry, it's Avodart (dutasteride) and Proscar (finasteride) that are dangerous. Birth defects possible just by handling the pills.

 

Nikki,

Does CVS do Culture & Sensitivity or the dipstick urinalysis for presence of bacteria? I keep those teststrips at home. Had to test my diabetic dog frequently. C&S would take a few days to week, usually.

[Karma]

I think you're right ... d-mannose only works on e. coli ... I used about 2-1/2 bottles of smart silver (not colloidal silver because the particles can be too large) to cure my infection. But I think you can use it as a preventative.

 

Karma

[Skyler]

Schuyler,

Flomax - for women?? I THOUGHT that was one of those drugs that women are not supposed to even touch with hands?? Kidney stones scare the c*** outa me.

I suspect women should not handle them on a regular basis, but maybe that's not what is meant. I have a grand total of FOUR capsules of Flomax in a pill vial, and I only take them in an emergency, for example I take one before the pain gets so intense and I can't keep food down, or drink fluids. So if that sort of episode is coming on, I will gladly take one or two. Better than a ride in the ambulance and a wait at the ER.

[Nadia]

I have more to answer on the subject of UTIs, but in the meantime, you can get Candida Clear from Amazon. UTIs in men are much more uncommon... my BF has issues with his immune system. Now it turns out he no longer has the enterococcus, but has a Staphylococcus infection that is resistant to the last antibiotic he took. I think the antibiotics just wreak more havoc and the answer is to get your natural flora in balance with more gentle approaches. We are huge ecosystems! Did you know that 99.9% of the cells that compose the human body are not human? Western medicine is only now beginning to understand the implications of this...

[spectio]

Hi, Nadia thanks for the new info on UTI's. Does your BF take probiotics on a daily basis or can he while he's taking antibiotics. You're right about our inside ecosystem. I'm sure it doesn't take much to alter the balance, especially with the use of antibiotics. For three or four years I had frequent UTI's and was cultured with methicillin resistant staph. They were so frequent the urologist wanted me to use daily macrobid. Don't know if that's the antibiotic they will recommend for your BF but it did keep mine controlled.

 

Will look into Candida Clear and have that on hand. For now I'm really concentrating on hygiene, lots of water, and early intervention. Hopefully, this last episode was just a uncommon occurrence and not a return to my previous pattern.

 

Has anyone experienced periods of "breathlessness" during WD? I've had infrequent episodes for three or four years now, even before I withdrew from AD's. The periods were very pronounced when I changed bp meds from ace inhibitors to beta blockers, and now that I've been on the calcium channel blockers I've noticed more frequent symptoms again. I've even noticed right after waking up I'll have problems. I think they are related to anxiety. I'm not having trouble breathing during exercise. These episodes just show up erratically. Haven't noticed them today but some days they are present off and on all day.

 

In September, I'll have been in WD for a year. Anyone out there in long term WD who is noticing more fatigue than anxiety. I'm finding the last couple of weeks that I fatigue very easily and am particularly unmotivated. In a way it's not a bad thing since I'm been running on jet fuel for four years and it's "nice" not to be charging ahead with everything I do. I'm not sure if this is a new stage I'm entering or what. This morning brought more depression than I've seen lately too; that has happened a few times lately, in the morning.

 

Thanks, all!!

[Nadia]

Hi Spectio,

 

My bf does take probiotics. We make yoghurt at home, fermented 24 hours. We think his original problems with IBS/celiac stuff started because of overuse of antibiotics when he was a child, so we're trying to find other options. He did have to take them recently because he had salmonella and this UTI... in a way it's like the same predicament we are in with taking ADs. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The drug that can help you (in theory) is also the one that will hurt you most.

 

I have breathlessness frequently. Sometimes in the afternoons, but many times in the morning. Sometimes it is what wakes me up. Like I'm not getting enough oxygen. But I bet what is going on for you is different... it does make sense that it could have something to do with your BP meds.

 

As for fatigue, I have both fatigue and anxiety, mixed in different degrees. When I went away and my anxiety disappeared for two weeks, I was exhausted. I felt like I was getting sick with something. Other times the extreme exhaustion comes when the morning panic starts to calm down. On my morning walks I tell myself, "rest when you need to rest, be active when you need to be active"... it seems like it is all haywire. I can't sleep at night and am tense and then when, I assume, the cortisol is coming down some, I crash. The pattern varies and mutates.

 

Depression settles in when anxiety gets lower. Sometimes both are together. That's the really killer combo.

 

N.

[spectio]

Hey Nadia, everything you mentioned is very similar to my experiences. I hear the exhaustion in your voice and I feel it too. Last night I had one of those wake up in the middle of the night and know you're done sleeping nights. I felt so depressed I wasn't sure what to do. I just wanted to be with some one so I just stayed In bed until dawn until my husband got up. Like you said, I realized at that point I'd been sleeping.

 

I'd been dreaming and I remember clearly reaching for an injured dove that had just been attacked by a rat. I caught the dove by its long tail, and then woke up.

 

Don't know what that means but it was an unusually detailed dream. I remember the long grey tail and it's struggle to get away as I held it long enough to get my hands on it. I remember feeling sad but relieved I could help him.

 

Don't know if there are any dream interpreters here. Actually, Nadia, how do you feel on those days when you had restless or abbreviated sleep the night before. This has happened a few times lately with the disturbed sleep and I would expect a horrendously fatigued day. Actually, just the opposite has happenend. I'm more upbeat than usual, have less anxiety and my cognitive function seems better. I havent had any depression today. Not too long ago, my husband and I slept in almost nine hours. I felt awful all day. I had more anxiety, I couldn't remember things, I was more dizzy, etc, etc. What does it all mean??

 

In a way, I'm okay with the rough sleeping nights. If I can just get it in my head that I'll be okay if I don't sleep perfectly all the time, you know, like the REST OF HUMANITY, then maybe I can retrain myself not to take insomnia like its the end of the world. That's the one HUGE thing that led me down the depression hole. By the way , meditation really does help with those kinds of obsessive thoughts.

 

These are just random ponderings.

 

Any interesting dreams, anyone?

[Nadia]

Heh heh... I have a lot of work to do to accept bad sleep. I have traditionally used sleep as a way of getting away from things. For example, I just had a fight with my mom and felt so crazy emotional. In the past I would have taken a nap and that would have helped me a ton. Now I can't. But you are totally right... so much of feeling awful is just the denial of what we're going through. Sometimes my mom says she had great sleep, and she says she slept only 5 hours! She says it's enough for her age. The days I can worry less about whether I get good sleep or not I'm certainly less pessimistic about everything.

 

The pattern you describe is how it can be fore me at least some of the time. It's hard to generalize because I go through different phases.

 

If I go too many nights in a row with bad sleep then I start to break down, but many times my energy level and sense of well-being have nothing to do with the quality of my sleep. I think cortisol can keep you going strong for a while. Then, when the cortisol dips down, you probably suffer from built up exhaustion that you weren't feeling because it was being masked by the cortisol. And other times, the cortisol is keeping you going but you're so run down that it's not enough. I think that is when I get the flu-like symptoms and more dizziness. I had some of that "don't feel quite healthy" exhaustion at the beginning of my vacation when I was finally able to sleep, and then after a week or so of really good sleep I started to feel better and had more energy. Another few days passed and then I started getting anxiety and early waking again. Alas.

 

It's like our bodies have not been able to find the right rhythms. Our peaks of cortisol are in the wrong places and exaggerated, and then the dips are probably more exaggerated as well.

 

I don't know about the relation to depression. I was down in the dumps yesterday, completely anhedonic, unable to see anything positive about life. Today I woke up with more determination to endure. My sleep was about the same both nights.

 

I'm not sure that I really understand how any of it goes together, but what I do feel is clearly my rhythms are completely haywire. Certain patterns emerge only to disappear later.

 

In general what I ponder a lot is how much it helps to reduce stress. I read that how stress works vis a vis cortisol in a healthy individual is adaptive. So X amount of stress will cause X amount of cortisol production, but after a while, if that same level of stress continues, the body no longer has as severe of a stress reaction. This would explain why all my periods of improvement have been when stress dropped suddenly and considerably, and then I'm doing much better. But if this is true, then the converse of this would be that if we reduce stress continuously, our "resistance" to it will also drop, so that then we can't handle as much. This seems to have happened to me as well, like coming back from vacation, and now suddenly stuff that I was handling OK before is raising my anxiety to levels it had not been at for months with way more stress.

 

This makes me question what the answer could possibly be. If we avoid stress, we get better, but only to get worse if we ever have stress again? Or could it be that if we avoid stress (somehow) for long enough, we can repair our nervous system to a normal stress response?

 

As for dreams, I've been having a ton of weird ones (in addition to random, very vivid memories, like I was having last year). I dreamed I had a baby, but it was a tiny little embryo, and my mom took it waterskiing. I picked it out of the water in my hand and shielded it's sensitive eyes from the sun. It started to grow and grow, and though it was only a day old it was suddenly a several month old baby, and it was even talking. I thought it was remarkable that it could talk so soon, but nobody else around me seemed impressed.

 

Last night I dreamed of kids again. I think it might have to do with the fact that I've been trying to have a baby and am considering giving up (I have felt so terrible that it seems cruel to bring another life into the world, especially if they inherit my way of being).

 

Lots of electrical activity going on up there. They say when babies can't sleep, it's because they are in a learning stage or fast growth stage. Let us hope our dreaming stages mean we are healing.

 

N.

[spectio]

I'm starting to get scared. I just started my fourth b. p. med change since May and the last week I'm feeling particularly depressed. I stuck with the calcium channel blocker for two months but the 20 + side effects I was having was just too much. The last week I was on that I started really feeling the blackness creep in. The side effects of this new med are very small so far but the depression is not lifting. Last night. I fell to sleep but after I got up to go to the bathroom during the night, I couldn't stop the panicky thoughts about what I was going to do next . How was I going to help myself if this truly is the return of depression.

 

Right now, I feel very nervous and worried. I've made an appt. with an "actual" cardiologist, not his minions who deal strictly with medication changes. That in itself was "uplifting". I asked one of the nurse practitioners what the most direct way of scheduling an appt with a dr.was and she launched into a lecture about how the drs were S0 busy , appointments would come through them, the practitioners. I told her briefly I had tried a number of meds and what my numbers were, and the problems with side effects. The b.p. readings have been ok, a little high last night. Well, theyre a okay NOW, aren't they? Was her response. I told her I had more of a story than just my b.p. readings and would like to talk to a doctor. I was civil and not teary.

 

Anyway, I told her I would persue this another way and I think she finally picked up I really needed to see a dr. So, I finally will be able to talk to a dr. Not a technician.

 

That's the other end of this nightmare. You see primary care drs who just do drugs, immediately label you if they see psychiatric in your history, and send you to the shrinks,,telling you "well, some people just need to take meds the rest their lives.". The other specialists listen to you, do their specific tests and when everything on their end checks out, suggest its a problem with the other specialist.

 

I just saw a neurologist. He tested me, talked to me,did an MRI. Yes, everything neurological tested out. I told him about changing b.p. meds. He said he'd had the same experience with finding the appropriate med. He heard my spiel about only talking to technicians, suggested actually talking to a cardiologist.

 

So, that's how it goes. Who do you talk to when you want the whole picture evaluated. When I started this nightmare journey, I had very little depression but a ton of anxiety, headaches, head pressure, nausea. Now, three months later I just basically have depression, some anxiety and very little of anything else.

 

Trouble is, this depression really has me scared. Is it a side effect of the new b.p. med (maybe), a side effect of three months of trying all these powerful drugs, one on top of the other, (very possible) or am I stuck in the middle of trying to recover from WD syndrome plus the trauma of changing b.p. drugs ( I'm thinking, YES.).

 

I'm really needing some consoling and some rational thought, not necessarily in that order.

[tezza]

Hey Spectio,

 

I'm sorry you're scared, I know how it feels. I'm kinda feeling the same things you're feeling. I really wish I could help you and cheer you up. I'm here to console you but I'm not very rational right now, i hate to admit. I'm sure someone that is will have some good advice for you.

 

Sending love and healing wishes wrapped in hugs!

 

Tezza

[Altostrata]

spec, are you also doing stuff to control the blood pressure naturally, e.g. exercise like swimming?

 

You may need to do this as it seems the blood pressure meds are all giving you bad side effects and you may need to minimize the dosage if you take them.

[spectio]

Dear Tezza, thank you for tasking time to respond. I really appreciate your loving thoughts and I send them back to you x 100!! I made it through another night and don't really feel that bad for not having slept. The depression is more or less gone today(little appearances) but mostly just feel very anxious!! How are you doing today? Please write and let me know how you're doing. I feel better when I can offer a shoulder,too. Love and Huggs back!!

 

Alto, , I've been a walker for MANY years. It's been harder the last few months because of all the med changes but I usually manage 3 to 4 or 5 days a week for 30 to 45 minutes. I love to walk. I know I'm not feeling good when I make excuses not to walk. Also, i watch my salt, eat salads or make green juice regularly, eat regular meals, steer clear of sugar and alcohol and dont do fast food. I thought i have all the bases covered but theres something else at work here with my b.p.. Don't know if my high bp is part of the adrenal hypothalamic dysregulation thing or what!, Thanks for taking the time to respond,Alto. I always appreciate any tidbit of advise you can shoot my way. I know blood pressure issues are not in your bag of tools but really do appreciate your spiel on things!! Thanks!

[Altostrata]

It's a mystery, spec. You're doing everything right. If it is withdrawal messing with your blood pressure, at least you know over time it will get better.

[Nadia]

Hugs, Spectio...

 

I don't know anything about blood pressure... I wonder how it all works, as mine is sometimes extremely low (like 85/54)... I hope you get that part of the puzzle figured out somehow, and in the meantime, keep strong, be kind to yourself, know I'm thinking of you (if that helps at all).

 

Love and admiration...

 

N.

[spectio]

Nadia, been thinking of you. How is YOUR Depression? I know you were really in some tough straits last time I talked. As for me, since the last time I journaled, I was really doing some sliding as far as my b.p. meds are concerned. I was/am feeling some scary stuff on the new meds(D), but not much of nothing else as far as side effects. Three days ago, I halved the dose and the D is somewhat better but along with that, my b.p. starts creeping up and that leads to more anxiety. I've made yet another appt, this time with a primary care dr.(not local in my sad little town) at a university clinic. Maybe a fresh pair of eyes can help me sort this thing out before it gets really out of control.

 

I was so happy to hear from you! Just knowing someone is thinking of me that knows what the "never ending story" is gives me great comfort, especially if that someone is you!

 

The worse part of this is I really have no one to confide in. If I tell my family how bad I feel, then they'll be depressed. I couldn't bear that!! I hate the feeling of being alone with these horrible thoughts!! I think that would help the anxiety if I had a friend who understood the struggle and wouldn't judge me as unfixable.

[tezza]

Dear Tezza, thank you for tasking time to respond. I really appreciate your loving thoughts and I send them back to you x 100!! I made it through another night and don't really feel that bad for not having slept. The depression is more or less gone today(little appearances) but mostly just feel very anxious!! How are you doing today? Please write and let me know how you're doing. I feel better when I can offer a shoulder,too. Love and Huggs back!!

 

 

 

Hi Spectio

 

I'm sorry I found this a little late. I've been a little low for a while but am beginning to feel better. Thank you for asking. I was just thinking of you and stopped by your thread to see how you are doing.

 

I hope your BP issues are resolving, that can be very frightening. I always had perfect BP prior to the psychotropics. Some are known to significantly lower BP and that happened in my case; however, since tapering meds, I have had higher readings.

 

These medications affect our health and well being in lots of negative ways. I so hope you are doing well now!

 

Just know you are in my thoughts and prayers!

 

Love and hugs!

[spectio]

Iggy, can I ask where you are seeing Dr Healy, and how much does he charge to see him privately?

 

Hello, everyone, it's been a long time since I checked in. It's been over 14 months since I discontinued AD's. I wish I could give everyone some real hope but what I've experienced along with many of the other long timers, is more of the same, most every day. When my stress level is low, my anxiety is almost livable. Unfortunately, almost everyday there is some stressor that rams it way into my day and causes a rebooting of my anxiety levels. Kind of the dog chasing the tail sort of thing. I have always tried to maintain some connection with my profession but what I'm finding is that it unfortunately is the cause of my worse anxiety. I'm pretty much at a point that I need to decline all work. It's either that or my anxiety levels will NEVER recede.

 

I'm getting pretty desperate. I don't want to be continually reacting with a flight or fight response every time the phone rings or someone wants me to do something. I'm getting really tired. I've developed back aches the last few weeks, it's really hard to cook good, healthy meals, or even to exercise.

 

I guess the point of this update is that to help your recovery, please do whatever you can to contain your stress levels. I know that is not an easy request since we don't want to give up on doing thin gs and contributing something to our lives and to others lives. I believe Alto has told others this too. If a particular stress affects your ability to sleep, then find a way to not do it. This may be work, or crowds, or whatever. Particularly in the early weeks and months of WD, PROTECT YOURSELF FROM STRESS, whatever it takes.

 

I'm sure in my case, coupled with 12 years of heavy doses of mirtazapine, I did not do enough to limit my stress during withdrawal. I may be paying the price now.

 

A few other things I've found out the hard way is watch out for ANY foreign substances you may be inclined to try. I know this has been talked about ad nauseous but be careful with supplements, antibiotics, blood pressure meds, statins(the one thing I never tried), fish oil, in ADDITION to sweeteners, CLEANING PRODUCTS, MOLD, caffeine, aspirin ,etc, etc. Please be very careful!

 

The only things that HELPED me are exercise(not too much, but regularly), meditation(every day, maybe twice a day if possible), good clean, wholesome food (three meals a day, each with some protein, some good carbs like vegetables, whole grains), and plenty of fresh water. Limit sugar intake but that is really hard to do when you're seeking some small thing to make you feel better? In fact, start the day with a couple of 12 ounce glasses of water with lemon, then more throughout the day. I've found that counsel by ANY doctor about WD issues is stressful and will lead to nothing but more stress and doubt. What I really miss is having a live person who understands my plight and struggle to confide in. My family is very afraid to know the day to day truth of what I feel every day. I'm tired of shouldering this burden in a bubble. It's so hard!

 

In a positive light, my thought processes are SOO MUCH BETTER. My memory is better which is a huge thing. I really missed not remembering things. On AD, memory was really bad for a long time.

 

I'd like to contact others that have reached the year mark or better just to have a conversation about how to go on. Anyone out there with a few observations?

[Altostrata]

spec, given that your thought processes were one of your main problems, this is excellent news.

 

And your advice to contain stress is right on. We each need to find a mode that helps us heal.

[Barbarannamated]

Spectio,

 

Thanks for your insightful post and excellent advice about stress. I'm at about 18 months post Pristiq (sloppy taper) but my case is very muddled so I hesitate to comment extensively.

 

This one statement resonated with me:

 

"I've found that counsel by ANY doctor about WD issues is stressful and will lead to nothing but more stress and doubt."

 

I find any interaction with medical professionals extremely stressful at this point. I have no trust and am hypervigilant to clues that docs still believe in psychopharmacology or that antidepressants should be used for pain and hormonal issues and... The magnitude of the deception is astounding to me, especially knowing how fraudulent the original research was. Hopefully my paranoia will mellow in time and/or protect me from further harmful treatments.

Husband is an MD, does phone consults from home, so I'm barraged with this daily.

 

I feel like I have zero stress tolerance and overreact to what little I expose myself to. My fight -flight - freeze system is stuck on freeze with moments of "FLEE!!" but no fight.

 

I hope other "veterans" will comment about trusting doctors again.

 

B

[spectio]

Thanks, Alto and Barb! You two , along with Nadia, Nikki, Whatever, Fefesmom, etc, etc. are REAL heroes and should be told that EVERY day. You've all come so far and against all odds, retained your SANITY and your CONCERN for others, and face the day again, ONE MORE TIME!

 

I really love and respect all of you on this site, I mean ALL of you!

 

Barb, I can't imagine hearing your hubby counsel people on the same issues you're DROWNING in every day. That can't be helping you deal with stress! I complain about my hubby really choosing NOT to be part of the discussion every day and walking a fine line around me, but to hear you're life partner telling other people the lies would be a challenge to deal with. HUGGS to you!! You're right on about he stress response. Stuck in flight is definitely the norm! It's so exhausting!

 

I give thanks I can think again! Unfortunately, I spend a lot of time thinking in circles with no resolution! Still neuroemotion?

[Barbarannamated]

Spectio,

 

I'm not so certain I've retained my sanity, but it's all relative, eh?!

 

The circular thinking... I think about thinking! Am I ruminating? Perseverating? What really is the difference between good attention and bad attention?? (Rhetorical questions, all)

Yes, I vote it is some variation of Neuroemotion.

 

B

[spectio]

Hey, good friends, I'm sorely in need of advise. In my small town where I live I have been feeding colonies of cats for years. In the last few years people have been progressively complaining more and more about the colonies. I've been trying to do my feeding covertly and laying low. It seems like people get a lot more interested if they see you feeding. Then it becomes a huge problem.

 

It has been so cold here. The last three weeks the daytime temperature have not reached freezing and the nighttime temps are sometimes below zero. At one of my colonies, I made the fatal,mistake if moving water up by a fence that is directly adjacent to another persons fence. These particular people, the wife especially, HATE cats. I knew they were both at work until noon but didn't realize until later that I had ended up there during the lunch hour. All I did was check the water and leave a can of food for a cat that got away from me when I was at the shop (my office was right around the corner from these people; these people bought my office building and then sent me away). I also called to him to come eat and then left because he's shy. I got home at 1:30 and this "human being" had already called animal control to complain.

 

I can't let go of the fear. I'm afraid I won't be able to continue feeding and I'm truly afraid for my cat that lives around these people's property. I visited with a friend yesterday who gave me real insight into what had just happened. This woman's response was really not about the cats, it was a reaction to seeing me violate her code of etiquette.

 

My response to animal control was to start trapping cats. As much as I hate the idea, I realize this has got to stop. There really are too many animals that are suffering and dying and I can't take care of all of them. It's so sad but I can't fix the situation and in this small town, allies are few and far between. If a property owner complains about the cats, that's pretty much the end of the discussion.

 

When I was in practice, I would routinely trap, neuter, and return or tame the kittens and find homes for them. I can't do this anymore and I really don't want to. It's hard work and it never ends. Couple that with feeling thiis way , anxious, scared and depressed pretty much paralyzes me.

 

I really don't know how to deal with this gamut of feelings I'm having about this problem. It's getting overwhelming and Im afraid for my sanity.

 

I really don't expect anyone to come up with a magic solution for these cats because there is none. What I would like from my friends is how to deal with the fear, guilt, anxiety, and depression over something that is not solvable. And this stuff, for me, happens ALL THE TIME . But this one, for me has me sick in my soul.

 

Suggestions, comments,anything anybody??

[Skyler]

My response to animal control was to start trapping cats. As much as I hate the idea, I realize this has got to stop. There really are too many animals that are suffering and dying and I can't take care of all of them. It's so sad but I can't fix the situation and in this small town, allies are few and far between. If a property owner complains about the cats, that's pretty much the end of the discussion.

Trapping the cats is the right thing to do. Feeding feral cats that are not neutered only breeds more to suffer. There is no way you can keep up. I hope you feel better once you have the situation in hand. I know you have the very best intentions, and love the animals, but it's not fair for the cats, for you, or the community.

 

Best regards,

Skyler, former kitty activist

[spectio]

Skyler, what is your history as a kitty activist? Did you have any experience with feral colonies? The other part of this equation is that our animal control in this town is just about worthless to nonexistent when it comes to cats. If I pursue getting A.C. to trap these cats, I can't be sure they would be euthanized. The gal at A.C. Is very secretive about what she does with these cats and I have heard that she just lets them loose around farms, etc. I'm really very unsure about the end result. It may be putting these innocent animals in yet another hell, not of their making.

It really is a catch 22.

[Skyler]

Hi Septico, no I did not work with feral colonies directly. I have networked with animal rights folks who dealt with them however, and the first 'rule' is don't feed feral cats unless they are neutered as you are only causing more poorly cared for animals to come into the world.

 

Unfortunately, feral cats are a problem over much of the country, and local animal control is often swamped. I used to feed stray cats that could be handled on a one at a time basis, and then find homes for them. That was a couple of decades ago. Since then rabies has become a problem, and feline leukemia is rampant.

 

I do not let my cat, adopted at age 11, now 14 yrs., outside. The situation is horrible, and I've taken care not to get caught up as you have because it's a bottomless pit. Just as you do now, I would have felt dreadful, and there is no end. I'm really sorry you find yourself so enmeshed and am sure you feel miserable. We humans have created a dreadful mess for the four paws and there are no good solutions.

[spectio]

Skyler, thanks for your input. It is no better for these animals now than it was decades ago. But there's got to be some solution to this if a group of people worked together. At least to make sure they were humanely euthanized.