Shanti: tapering off Paxil

[Altostrata]

That's a relief, Shanti.

 

You're dealing with such a complex situation.

 

I would take some of what the psychiatrist said with a grain of salt. Latuda does cause weight gain, but at this point, since it's new, the manufacturer is claiming, as usual, that it has fewer problems than its competitors. See http://www.behavioral.net/ME2/dirmod.asp?type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=64D490AC6A7D4FE1AEB453627F1A4A32&tier=4&id=73C0E7379E844EA8B741B0606671933C

 

http://www.fiercepharma.com/story/sunovion-lobs-latuda-crowded-atypicals-market/2011-02-04

 

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/lurasidone-side-effects.html

 

http://www.drugs.com/pro/latuda.html FDA prescribing information

The effectiveness of Latuda for longer-term use, that is, for more than 6 weeks, has not been established in controlled studies.

 

I'm beginning to think you can sell anything to a psychiatrist.

 

Also see Drug interactions between fluoxetine and lurasidone. The combination may cause problems.

 

One might be able to minimize the risk by taking the lowest effective dose, which may be smaller than the lowest tablet dosage.

 

What are your plans for the Prozac?

[Shanti]

I just don't know what to do about the Schizo.

 

I'm going to finish my bottle of 20 mg Prozac, which is a months supply, then I will go to my liquid and start tapering. I want to be sure I'm over the Paxil and give my brain a little time to recover.

 

Thank you for your research Alto!

[Altostrata]

Sounds like a good plan.

 

Other than your fears for the future based on your father's decline, your present schizo symptoms are manageable, right? Perhaps you can wait a month or two, until you are off Prozac, before experimenting with Latuda.

 

You might want to wait, in case your system is still sensitized by the Paxil withdrawal symptoms. You might have a hard time dealing with a drug-drug conflict, and it sounds like your psychiatrist overlooked this possibility.

 

Although biopsychiatry, as usual, claims it needs lifelong medication, it's debatable that schizophrenia is a progressive disease. There may be other factors that caused your father's deterioration.

[Shanti]

They are somewhat manageable. There is one thing that I am now doing that I didn't do before, and it's something that I saw happen to my dad and progress into an inability to communicate with him. Someone can be talking to me, I'm listening intently, but then I totally have no clue what they said. Then I say "oh, sorry can you repeat that?" and they do, and then I do it again! I have gone as far as trying to listen to the same thing 4 times without "getting" their words. My dad does this terribly. This scares me.

[Altostrata]

Shanti, please connect with the Hearing Voices people, and Will Hall, too. He's in Oregon and a therapist who is mentally various. You can get support for making these decisions about medications for schizophrenia, and how to cope with the symptoms.

[Shanti]

Shanti, please connect with the Hearing Voices people, and Will Hall, too. He's in Oregon and a therapist who is mentally various. You can get support for making these decisions about medications for schizophrenia, and how to cope with the symptoms.

 

Okay. I did some more research about whether people get worse without treatment and I can see there is debate about it like you said. I'm handling the symptoms pretty good. I think I'll just wait and see how I do. The thought of going on meds had me in anxiety all day today.

[Shanti]

Alto, I so appreciate that link you left me. I read the whole site and downloaded the booklet. It was like a God-send. I am exhausted right now from the stress from going to mental health and the docs and the confusion and fear. I'm always a mental wreck after talking to the docs. I get really confused about what I should do. I haven't read the whole booklet, only about half so far. I'm too sleepy right now to finish it. But so far it's been a huge help in getting all this straight and having confidence that I can take care of it naturally. Thanks again for all the work you do here! You are making good karma

[Altostrata]

Very glad to help. Was it the Icarus Project guide you downloaded?

 

There may be a Mad Pride support group near you. Will Hall would know.

[Barbarannamated]

Doctors are scary.

 

I have a terrible fear of doctors now ~ drdickwadaphobia

And then there's the distinct anxiety provoked by any well-meaning but naive person who asks 'what do the doctors/your husband suggest'

[Shanti]

Barb, the way you relate and then say what I'm thinking too but in a funny way always cracks me up lol.

 

Alto, I don't think it's the same, the one I downloaded is called the Harm Reduction Guide from Will Hall's site. I'll check out the other one though and see what it's like too. Or if it's the same one.

 

I was really schitzo today. Voices were mean. I thought about my Spirit Guide and then a man voice said "Spirit Guides aren't real". smh. Then I saw a flash of Light and I think it was my angels blasting that voice away because it went away.

 

I found a Schitzophrenia forum and it's pretty interesting reading these posts, they sound like me with their spiritual views.

[Altostrata]

Right, it's the Harm Reduction Guide, the same booklet.

 

Shanti, you're doing a great job countering those destructive voices by calling on your self-protective spirit. I can only admire that.

[Shanti]

Thanks Alto.

 

K, it's 8 days since I dropped from 20 mg to 18 mg and I'm doing great. I only had one tiny little zap the second night. Nothing more. I think I'll taper every three weeks and see how that goes since it's going a lot better than with the Paxil.

 

As for the Schizophrenia, I'm doing great! I've done some research and I'm taking a lot of Niacin and also starting a low carb, gluten-free diet plan. I hear these things are supposed to help with Schizo and so far it's worked wonders. I have only had one voice in a week and my hallucinations are very bizarre but peaceful. In fact, I see them as "visions" and I interpret them like dreams. I can tell they are messages encoded in universal symbolism from my subconsious or Higher Self. Very helpful

[Barbarannamated]

Shanti~

Your new outlook is awesome :-)

 

I know people who experience visions and voices and don't consider them pathological or schizophrenic •

That said ~i haven't experienced that so can only imagine how disconcerting it would be •

If you stop referring to yourself as 'schizophrenic' and rather someone who is able to hear and see messages other people can't //I suspect it might help you reframe things in a less negative light •

I think it was GiannaKali who UNdiagnosed herself --love it

[Shanti]

Shanti~

Your new outlook is awesome :-)

 

I know people who experience visions and voices and don't consider them pathological or schizophrenic •

That said ~i haven't experienced that so can only imagine how disconcerting it would be •

If you stop referring to yourself as 'schizophrenic' and rather someone who is able to hear and see messages other people can't //I suspect it might help you reframe things in a less negative light •

I think it was GiannaKali who UNdiagnosed herself --love it

 

For some reason, the word Schizophrenia doesn't bother me. I totally accept that I have a condition. I believe it is an astral and ego wound condition. I do believe I have Schizophrenia, as I have the other symptoms aside from voices and hallucinations, such as delusions of persecution and paranoia. Lots of other signs as well. But I do handle it spiritually as best I can and no way I'm going to resort to antipsychotics now.

 

Maybe it is better to call it something different, like what Alto called it. I forgot the word or phrase. I call it a gift that got a bit wounded from trauma. Clairvoyance, Clair-audience, and emphatic. That's what it all really is. It's just the trauma makes us experience the negative realms.

[Altostrata]

Neurological variability. I think Will Hall invented that phrase.

[Shanti]

Neurological variability. I think Will Hall invented that phrase.

 

 

That's it. I like that outlook of it. However, I am on the mission now to bring deeper understanding of Schizophrenia even under the same name. I believe it is true, that it is "neurological variability" but I believe there are specific spiritual conditions that cause Schizophrenia. Not talking about demon possession, though I have many times done exorcisms to be sure. lol. Anyway, I just believe it has a lot to do with clairaudience and clairvoyance, and a confusion with the boundaries of different realms.

 

Anyway, I am now a month off Paxil! Yay!! I'm at 16 mg Prozac. Tapering has been pretty smooth and easy so far

[Shanti]

I am doing great with withdrawals, but I'm having so much stress and depression in my life over all the medical issues that I think I'm going to stay on the Prozac until I get all the medical situation resolved. I'm just not coping well with dealing with the doctors and having the tests, waiting for results and all that. I get stressed when I think of my living situation and my future and it drives me crazy.

[Karma]

Shanti,

 

That sounds like what my withdrawal symptoms were like. I had these irrational fears about having enough money to retire on, would I leave my husband enough money to live on if I died, if I lost my job and had to find another would I make the money I'm making ... just irrational ... but this was all withdrawals for me. I also felt a kind of emotional pain when reading books that had fighting, war, separation of family, or other kinds of drama.

 

Now that I've been at my up-dose of Effexor for over a month those irrational fears are gone. I feel confident in my job (I expect an outstanding performance review - I'm really doing a good job by all accounts) and I'm taking steps to increase my retirement fund. I've started reading the book series I was reading before and its drama no longer effects me like it did before. It is fiction.

 

I know others will chime in, but I think you need to hold on your dose of Prozac or maybe go back up to 18 mg - I think you are having withdrawal symptoms.

 

Karma

[Altostrata]

Karma has a good point.

 

Shanti, you're right. In situations of high stress, it may make sense to hold on the tapering, it can add more stress.

 

Sending calming thoughts your way, I know you're going through a lot.

[InNeedOfHope]

I don't know what to say except to keep trying and to keep having the positive attitude you have shown all the way through, something I wish I could have more of. Hugs to you.

[Shanti]

I totally understand irrational thoughts, but the fact is that I don't have a job. I am so week and in so much pain that it's impossible to work. I've been waiting for 2 years for disability. I'm living off my moms retirement in a travel trailer at her home. I hate my living situation but I have no choice. I am grateful that I have what I have and not living in shelters but it's so depressing to have to depend on my mom. I'm not married and sometimes I get so angry at my ex of 18 years that he stayed with me through the good and best years of my life and now I'm left with nothing through the hard times. I have not worked as I was a homemaker so I have no retirement. So, just to say, my concerns really aren't irrational. I just can't wait to get disability so I can at least take care of myself.

 

Thank you Alto for understanding. I was so stressed yesterday that I went ahead and took Xanax when I don't normally take it. I had a nerve transmission test the other day and it caused me two days of electrical shock pain through my body and I think it also effected my nerves and stress. I am doing much better today though

[Shanti]

Since I blurted out so much negative I must count my blessings, as I am very grateful for MANY things.

 

I AM Grateful that I have a place to live and food to eat

I AM Grateful that my parents both own two homes and I will never be homeless no matter what my situation and income. When my mom decides to move into a retirement home, she is leaving the home to me so I have a rent free home to own.

I AM Grateful my kids are healthy

I AM Grateful that I have medical care and coverage

I AM Grateful that my condition isn't so tragic as many others suffer.

 

Okay that feels better!

[Altostrata]

Dear Shanti, you are so courageous.

 

I am concerned about the nerve transmission. It reinforces my intuition that you shouldn't push the Prozac taper. Go gently for the time being.

[Barbarannamated]

Shanti ~

I relate to the helpless feelings ~

Hubby and I finally talked yesterday (actually I tried to talk thru the sobs) and alot has happened over the years but it FEELS like it would all be a tad more manageable if I was able to earn money ~

I do get disability for which I am thankful but will never be able to take in more than I do now or I lose everything including medical benefits for both of us based on my previous emplyers disability program

To be restricted in earning potential is a terrible contributor to Learned Helplessness and --i agree --not an irrational fear

[Shanti]

You are all so supportive and helpful. I feel calmer now and it's so good to have friends here like this. Okay, I'm just going rest a while on 20 mg Prozac. I already know now that I can handle it's withdrawals MUCH better than the Paxil. Though it's not a piece of cake exactly. Alto intuition always seems to be right on for me too. I totally respect that and am grateful.

[Altostrata]

It's up to you, Shanti -- I would think staying at 16mg would be okay, you may not have to go all the way back up.

[Shanti]

Yeah, I think going up to 20 was a bit much. I'll go with 18 mg.

[Shanti]

Uggh. I feel like c***. I had nightmares too. I feel like a little sick with a cough. But not only that, I am starting feel all the horrible feelings of withdrawals like before. The anxiety and depression. I went ahead and upped Prozac to 20 mg. I'm tapering off of Vicodin now because I got bumped up to Percocet and I just don't want to get deeper into the opiate addiction. So this morning I decided it's time that I dove into my withdrawal plan full force again like I did at the beginning. All the homeopathy and rosaries. I feel like I'm falling into the astral atm. But also feel sick so maybe a bug is causing a bit of a relapse in my Paxil wd syndrome?

[Altostrata]

That could be, Shanti.

[Nadia]

It makes sense that sickness (or just about any other stressor) could cause a relapse. Hope you get through it gently!

[Shanti]

Thank you. I just had a fever for about a day and a half. That was it. But it was enough to sink my consciousness into the pits and have a setback on my mental and emotional stability. I must've had an infection and the Echinacea helped I guess.

 

Well, I'm doing great emotionally and everything right now. I'm at 20 mg still. We found out my daughter has a brain tumor and things just keep happening so I'm not going to go down on the Prozac for some time. Thankfully the tumor is benign! It's small too so it's not as bad as it could be.

 

I haven't been around much but just wanted to stop in and say I'm alive. I'm not on much right now so I probably will just check back in after a few days or so. Bless you all <3

[Altostrata]

From http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1651-beatnik87-multiple-med-adjustments/page__view__findpost__p__15831

Hi Beatnik. Welcome to the forum. I was on Geodon for several months before but it gave me akathisia. I've been through the ringer with anti-psychotics and I am through with trying anymore. I've had at least 10 different kinds. I'm diagnosed Schizophrenia. I searched Google for natural ways to deal with Schizophrenia and found a wonderful program of megadoses of Niacin. This has been a MIRACLE for me. Simply taking about 10, 500 mg capsules of Niacin a day has completely eliminated the psychosis. I don't know if that works for bi-polar, but I just want you to know that there are wonderful alternatives to try if you look good and hard.

 

I'm glad you found your way here

 

Shanti, that is amazing. How long have you been on megadoses of niacin? Did you have any bad effects at the start?

 

You might want to check on this -- too much niacin can affect the liver. Not sure what dosage is in the danger zone. You may want to ask your nicer doctor to check on liver function periodically.

[Shanti]

I just started on 2 pills a day then increased by one until I stopped having symptoms. I take about 7 to 10 a day. Usually 7 is good. I got a book called "Orthomolecular Treatment for Schizophrenia - Megavitamin supplements and nutritional strategies for healing and recovery by A. Hoffer, M.D.,Ph.D. I started this about 3 weeks ago.

 

I didn't have any side effects. He says that someone that doesn't need this will have side effects. I didn't even get a Niacin flush.

 

I didn't know that about the liver though. Maybe I'll look more into that.

 

Here's a little vid.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgUvAVQbxDY

[Shanti]

Do you think that's too dangerous Alto? I'm gonna do more research.

 

I'm confused. Again. Surprise! My nerve conductivity test showed that I have neuropathy of unknown origin. So they can't do a full body MRI cause they can't link it to my spine. There are no neurologists that take my insurance. I discovered that a Xanax actually helps the pain and I told my doc this. She said this tells her that it has to do with my mental illness and insists that if I take my antipsychotics that it will help my pain. So now I am thinking of going back on Latuda. I don't want to get in deep with benzos! So I think I'd rather take Latuda than Xanax for the pain.

[Altostrata]

Do you think that's too dangerous Alto? I'm gonna do more research.

 

I'm confused. Again. Surprise! My nerve conductivity test showed that I have neuropathy of unknown origin. So they can't do a full body MRI cause they can't link it to my spine. There are no neurologists that take my insurance. I discovered that a Xanax actually helps the pain and I told my doc this. She said this tells her that it has to do with my mental illness and insists that if I take my antipsychotics that it will help my pain. So now I am thinking of going back on Latuda. I don't want to get in deep with benzos! So I think I'd rather take Latuda than Xanax for the pain.

 

I'm confused, too. There is not a molecule of evidence that Latuda is effective for neuropathic pain. I can't find anything that says it was even considered for this purpose.

 

It sounds to me like your doctor just thinks you're crazy, plus you're making a pitch for an addictive drug. She lied to you and is treating you disrespectfully. She wants you on an antipsychotic no matter what. Is it possible for you to see this doctor with ear plugs in your ears?

 

It sounds like you're taking 3500mg-5000mg (3.5-5 grams) of niacin a day. According to the NIH, dosages over 3 grams per day may injure the liver http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/924.html. The Linus Pauling Institute agrees http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/niacin/

 

An alternative medicine site http://www.doctoryourself.com/hoffer_niacin.html claims such reactions are rare. This may be true, due to individual variability in metabolism. Even so, medical supervision is advised, to monitor liver health.

 

Since the niacin treatment is working for you -- and I'm very happy about that -- you may wish to work with an orthomolecular physician. Here's a list http://orthomolecular.org/resources/drs.shtml There's one in Redding.

 

I'm wondering if your neuropathy isn't from withdrawal syndrome, or from being switched from drug to drug. Did it get worse when you were trying to taper Paxil?

[Shanti]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate the time you put into this research for me! Thank you!

 

I'm going down to 2 niacin a day until I can figure out exactly what to do and check out the links. I can ask my doctor to monitor my liver. Yes she thinks all my problems are Schizo related. I wish I had more options for doctors but I just don't. At least she is compassionate and kind and treats me with respect. She is just one of those docs that is a drug pusher big time. So I have to watch it.

 

I am getting extreme fatigue in my lower legs that drives me insane. Its like there's no circulation and I can't stand long. I just started taking a couple of Cayenne capsules a day to see if it helps my circulation. I do suspect this is due to withdrawal. The neuropathy though all started before I even took Paxil. So it has to be caused by something else. I'm going to read all the links you posted here. Thank you again.