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Ego Reality


Shanti

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Ego death and reality

To be completely you means being alone. When this is experienced, it will bring very deep grief and sadness. You have to learn to say good-bye to everything you have loved -- not just your Mommy and Daddy, your boyfriend and your cat, but to your feelings, your mind, your ideas. You are in love with all of these. Letting go of them will feel like a great loss, even a death. It is not you who dies. What dies is everyone else. In the experience of ego death, you don't feel you're dying; you feel everybody else is dead. You feel you're all alone, totally alone. You have lost a boundary which was constructed from past experiences. But this boundary never really existed! It was just a belief. When you experience reality as it is, there is no sense of boundaries or of being separate, of inside or outside. (Diamond Heart Book 2, pg 169)

Ego death and unity

Experiencing this unity reveals to us that life is beautiful. Prior to this, when you experience yourself moving from the state of the physical or of the personality to the state of the essential or of the boundless dimensions, there is the feeling that life is a problem. The best option seems to be to get away from life, and one may long to disappear or die. From the perspective of unity, there is no such thing as dying, nor of being reborn. There is no such thing as ego death, and no such thing as enlightenment either, since you are already the unity. This is the state of affairs all the time and always -- before you develop an ego, when it is dissolving, and after you are dissolved. All those parts are the unity itself, and so you are not going anywhere. (Facets of Unity, pg 88)

 

I have considered the idea that the drug Paxil does something to break the boundaries of ego reality to the extent that we feel nothing is real; depersonalization. I think the problem is that it is too much, too harsh of an experience when we aren't ready for such an event. This can go along with the other topic about Kundalini. Maybe it's that our physical brains and nervous systems aren't a high enough vibration to withstand the energy as well, and so we have the zaps and such. Or, maybe we are still basing our identity a little too much from the ego self rather than our true self, so there isn't a firm grip of who we are, our identity, when that boundary falls and we're stuck kind of in between identities. Not fully grounded in either one. We lose knowing who we are and why we're here.

 

I've been spiritual and working on my spiritual growth for many years. I think it's just something that might not be meant to be experienced in this realm unless we've reached full enlightenment, or at least a very high attainment. I feel there is so much more to understand about this and ponder it often, it's a bit beyond my grasp but it's there in my mind as something to explore.

Taper from Cymbalta, Paxil, Prozac & Antipsychotics finished June 2012.

Xanax 5% Taper - (8/12 - .5 mg) - (9/12 - .45) - (10/12 - .43) - (11/12 - .41) - (12/12 - .38)

My Paxil Website

My Intro

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Ego death and reality

To be completely you means being alone. When this is experienced, it will bring very deep grief and sadness. You have to learn to say good-bye to everything you have loved -- not just your Mommy and Daddy, your boyfriend and your cat, but to your feelings, your mind, your ideas. You are in love with all of these. Letting go of them will feel like a great loss, even a death. It is not you who dies. What dies is everyone else. In the experience of ego death, you don't feel you're dying; you feel everybody else is dead. You feel you're all alone, totally alone. You have lost a boundary which was constructed from past experiences. But this boundary never really existed! It was just a belief. When you experience reality as it is, there is no sense of boundaries or of being separate, of inside or outside. (Diamond Heart Book 2, pg 169)

Ego death and unity

Experiencing this unity reveals to us that life is beautiful. Prior to this, when you experience yourself moving from the state of the physical or of the personality to the state of the essential or of the boundless dimensions, there is the feeling that life is a problem. The best option seems to be to get away from life, and one may long to disappear or die. From the perspective of unity, there is no such thing as dying, nor of being reborn. There is no such thing as ego death, and no such thing as enlightenment either, since you are already the unity. This is the state of affairs all the time and always -- before you develop an ego, when it is dissolving, and after you are dissolved. All those parts are the unity itself, and so you are not going anywhere. (Facets of Unity, pg 88)

 

I have considered the idea that the drug Paxil does something to break the boundaries of ego reality to the extent that we feel nothing is real; depersonalization. I think the problem is that it is too much, too harsh of an experience when we aren't ready for such an event. This can go along with the other topic about Kundalini. Maybe it's that our physical brains and nervous systems aren't a high enough vibration to withstand the energy as well, and so we have the zaps and such. Or, maybe we are still basing our identity a little too much from the ego self rather than our true self, so there isn't a firm grip of who we are, our identity, when that boundary falls and we're stuck kind of in between identities. Not fully grounded in either one. We lose knowing who we are and why we're here.

 

I've been spiritual and working on my spiritual growth for many years. I think it's just something that might not be meant to be experienced in this realm unless we've reached full enlightenment, or at least a very high attainment. I feel there is so much more to understand about this and ponder it often, it's a bit beyond my grasp but it's there in my mind as something to explore.

 

Thank you Summer! I was a little leary posting my ideas. They weren't received well at another forum. All the posts that I put my heart into were deleted and I was barred. I'm really glad to be here and love the posts I've seen. Very helpful!

Taper from Cymbalta, Paxil, Prozac & Antipsychotics finished June 2012.

Xanax 5% Taper - (8/12 - .5 mg) - (9/12 - .45) - (10/12 - .43) - (11/12 - .41) - (12/12 - .38)

My Paxil Website

My Intro

Link to post
Barbarannamated

Yes, very interesting. There is so much disconnectedness in our connected world. Hoping that makes sense to someone.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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lol @ Summer :)

 

Yes Barbara, I totally know what you mean.

 

This concept of the ego makes some sense in some kind of connection with the withdrawals. I can't quite grasp it or try to explain it, but I know it's there. It's something to meditate on when I want to get my mind off other things.

Taper from Cymbalta, Paxil, Prozac & Antipsychotics finished June 2012.

Xanax 5% Taper - (8/12 - .5 mg) - (9/12 - .45) - (10/12 - .43) - (11/12 - .41) - (12/12 - .38)

My Paxil Website

My Intro

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That reminds me of Krishnamurti (very intersting reading, I recommend). Basically, he says that our ego divert us from the reality, prevent us from having relations, and take love away from us. It sounds threadbare and flat, but his theory is far more radical and embracing than that ( I can't but betray and diminish his thinking, just read it).

It comes down to the conclusion that the death of the ego (actually, he talks about the end of a center-outskirt pattern and dynamism), the comprehensive death of the ego is the only way to happiness and love (he has very interesting conception of love and of the relations between the human beings).

Withdrawal looks so much like a kind of sacrifice of the ego. When in withdrawal, you are dispossessed of everything, even of yourself. You are nothing at all. There isn't anything left you can cling onto so as to feed the illusion of the ego. You are forced to live without ego. It is learning a new way of life. Just like you are peeled.

And the death of the ego is the key to happiness and true love, and to vision. According to Krishnmurti, one should symbolically die every day, so as to be able to truly live the day after. Death here means renewal of the spirit by the abandon of experiences and prejudices.

First AD -sertraline- in 2007at the age of 13 because of child abuse

2009-2013: intricate story of multiple wds, meds and cts, gradually became a living mess

Feb 2013: last CT from a cocktail of four drugs, symptoms are relenting but witness a constant sharpening of the brain

 

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  • Administrator

Excellent point, Roads. The Buddhist concepts of letting go of control, resignation, or submission are similar.

 

Or, from the Christian-influenced 12-step program, trusting your future to God.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Very good point! Here's a good story of Jill, a Brain Scientist, who recounts her story of a stroke she had. It tells of how she went back and forth from the containment of the ego mind to the spiritual mind. I guess that's a way to put it, but just see for yourself. It's very interesting!

 

Taper from Cymbalta, Paxil, Prozac & Antipsychotics finished June 2012.

Xanax 5% Taper - (8/12 - .5 mg) - (9/12 - .45) - (10/12 - .43) - (11/12 - .41) - (12/12 - .38)

My Paxil Website

My Intro

Link to post
  • Administrator

That is a brilliant video, thanks for posting it, Shanti.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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That is a brilliant video, thanks for posting it, Shanti.

 

You're welcome.

 

Jill seems to have had a complete separation from the two minds. So her "spiritual mind" wasn't scary to her. I suspect that what we go through is more of a warping and wounding of the ego mind and it causes a feeling of loss of identity and it's very scary. That's just my theory. I do try to find meaning in all of this because it is a comfort to me. I always have to know the "why" and I have full faith that I will be shown what I need to know, as long as I have faith in that. I guess it's just a trust that my higher guidance will show me if I'm open to it.

Taper from Cymbalta, Paxil, Prozac & Antipsychotics finished June 2012.

Xanax 5% Taper - (8/12 - .5 mg) - (9/12 - .45) - (10/12 - .43) - (11/12 - .41) - (12/12 - .38)

My Paxil Website

My Intro

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  • 2 weeks later...
Barbarannamated

Great video, Shanti! The corpus callosum is a fascinating structure. I'd love to hear how she correlates her stroke experience to her brother's schizophrenia. This takes me back to my amazement at how neurology and psychiatry have diverged horribly. I believe there is much greater overlap related to brain structures and how and when the right brain activity manifests: during seizures/strokes, auras, visions, voices, past life memories.

Would also love to pick her brain ('scuse the pun) about what she believes meds do to brain.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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I am a black male with a masters degree in social work. Yet when I have problems associated with my withdrawal from ssri's that I stopped taking 2 years ago I am treated like I'm a drug addict looking for some free pills! I don't want another damn pill for anything yet I have to fight the system and a 'glance at me diagnosis'. I wear a business suit to work every day but when I go to the drs office I go casual. Do they even look at the fact that I am a 49 year old male who is very physically fit and my IQ probably exceeds the quacks who tell me to take ibuprofen and wait it out.BTW- Has anyone else experienced periods of lackadaisical sex drive from ADs ? I have even moreso while in withdrawal. This is maddening!

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I am a black male with a masters degree in social work. Yet when I have problems associated with my withdrawal from ssri's that I stopped taking 2 years ago I am treated like I'm a drug addict looking for some free pills! I don't want another damn pill for anything yet I have to fight the system and a 'glance at me diagnosis'. I wear a business suit to work every day but when I go to the drs office I go casual. Do they even look at the fact that I am a 49 year old male who is very physically fit and my IQ probably exceeds the quacks who tell me to take ibuprofen and wait it out.BTW- Has anyone else experienced periods of lackadaisical sex drive from ADs ? I have even moreso while in withdrawal. This is maddening!

 

Hi Jake. I totally relate. I've been treated like I was only a drug addict, especially when I was in severe pain. So much I've experienced too always get written off as anxiety and that drives me crazy. I've learned a lot in the last couple of years about how doctors don't know as much as I thought they did!

Taper from Cymbalta, Paxil, Prozac & Antipsychotics finished June 2012.

Xanax 5% Taper - (8/12 - .5 mg) - (9/12 - .45) - (10/12 - .43) - (11/12 - .41) - (12/12 - .38)

My Paxil Website

My Intro

Link to post

Why is there a little icon before the title of this topic and "Resilience After Trauma?" What's it mean?

Taper from Cymbalta, Paxil, Prozac & Antipsychotics finished June 2012.

Xanax 5% Taper - (8/12 - .5 mg) - (9/12 - .45) - (10/12 - .43) - (11/12 - .41) - (12/12 - .38)

My Paxil Website

My Intro

Link to post
Barbarannamated

Jake,

Gianna Kali on her Beyond Meds blog wrote a great piece about how she is perceived and treated differently depending on how she introduces herself--as a mental health professional or a patient. I bet you would relate well to her experiences. I have avoided docs as much as possible thru this, although that will have to end soon.

I'm sad to say that the racism doesn't surprise me. I was shocked to see how people in Orange County (S Ca) treated a black male friend when we were together. It was eye opening.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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Barb, I hate to say racism at all. I just don't want to be seen differently than than anyone else when it comes to anything, especially health matters. Did you feel like you were looked down on when you were with him? Doesn't that make you feel a bit rebellious?

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Barbarannamated

It was nonverbal actions that truly stunned me, esp in a progressive area--people locking car doors when they saw him/us, etc. He was quite used to it, but I was stunned. Had no idea it was still pervasive. I felt defensive of him and ashamed of our society, in general. In contrast, illegals are so common here, they aren't given a 2nd look or thought. Don't even get me started on that one!!

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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Barb, I have fought with drs for years to cut back on the meds I was taking. I finally had to take control of things myself. I weaned myself off the major ad's and found that my first year of withdrawal was more difficult than any year with major depression before I was diagnosed. We must wake up and learn what we are allowing to be done to us before we are a society that is unable to produce original thought. BTW- When people hear I'm a black male with 'mental issues' they don't think psychiatric help they think park bench. When people locked the doors when you were with your friend did you feel like a minority also?

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fantastic video shanti..THANK YOU

while watching it,i wished i saw it during my extreme PW and ADR,but then i realized that i was very fortunate not have seen it and got to have a first hand experience of what she's talking about

i still find it amazing the fact that WE humans get terrified shocked and so scared when we come face to face with absolute peace...we got sooooo accustomed to misery that peace and nirvanic feelings seem like falling from a high cliff and the extreme majority refuse to surrender to that and fight it with their FULL power and whats left of their energy,and thats what i sometimes call the chosen addiction to misery

i keep repeating that i REALLY miss the time i was suffering with extreme PW,and others simply cant understand that suffering is the shortest cut towards wisdom and insight

my suffering ended that very same day when i realized what this Dr. in the video realized,,when she said ""i was SHOCKED that i'm still alive""....""i can still breath""

my suffering ended that day when i fell in love with my suffering,when i realized how great of a tool it was,that very same day my suffering decided to leave and never come back.

this WILL also CHANGE

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fantastic video shanti..THANK YOU

while watching it,i wished i saw it during my extreme PW and ADR,but then i realized that i was very fortunate not have seen it and got to have a first hand experience of what she's talking about

i still find it amazing the fact that WE humans get terrified shocked and so scared when we come face to face with absolute peace...we got sooooo accustomed to misery that peace and nirvanic feelings seem like falling from a high cliff and the extreme majority refuse to surrender to that and fight it with their FULL power and whats left of their energy,and thats what i sometimes call the chosen addiction to misery

i keep repeating that i REALLY miss the time i was suffering with extreme PW,and others simply cant understand that suffering is the shortest cut towards wisdom and insight

my suffering ended that very same day when i realized what this Dr. in the video realized,,when she said ""i was SHOCKED that i'm still alive""....""i can still breath""

my suffering ended that day when i fell in love with my suffering,when i realized how great of a tool it was,that very same day my suffering decided to leave and never come back.

 

Hi Essamalbalaa,

 

I'm glad you got something from the video. Did you see the discussion about Resilience after Trauma? I agree with everything you said here. It's the same view I have :)

Taper from Cymbalta, Paxil, Prozac & Antipsychotics finished June 2012.

Xanax 5% Taper - (8/12 - .5 mg) - (9/12 - .45) - (10/12 - .43) - (11/12 - .41) - (12/12 - .38)

My Paxil Website

My Intro

Link to post
  • 2 weeks later...
Barbarannamated

fantastic video shanti..THANK YOU

while watching it,i wished i saw it during my extreme PW and ADR,but then i realized that i was very fortunate not have seen it and got to have a first hand experience of what she's talking about

 

Hi Essamalbalaa,

 

Just readin thru this and not sure what PW and ADR are. I did watch the video awhile back; perhaps this is mentioned in it.

 

Barb

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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hi barb,

ADR is adverse drug reaction,and PW is protracted withdrawal..hope i spelled them right :)

this WILL also CHANGE

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Barbarannamated

thanks! Should have been obvious.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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Jill Bolte Taylor is so inspiring! It was seeing that video early in w.d that gave me so much hope for change.

 

Regarding the corpus calossum, from what I've read it is something to do with bridging the right and left hemispheres of the brain? (or maybe I'm remembering this wrong).

Off Lexapro since 3rd November 2011.

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Barbarannamated

Phil, yes, that is my understanding although your use of term 'bridge' puts it in a new light. I used to think of it as a 'divider'. Helps explain why thicker CC facilitates left-right communication (bridge).

Thanks Phil!

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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  • 2 years later...

fantastic video shanti..THANK YOU while watching it,i wished i saw it during my extreme PW and ADR,but then i realized that i was very fortunate not have seen it and got to have a first hand experience of what she's talking about i still find it amazing the fact that WE humans get terrified shocked and so scared when we come face to face with absolute peace...we got sooooo accustomed to misery that peace and nirvanic feelings seem like falling from a high cliff and the extreme majority refuse to surrender to that and fight it with their FULL power and whats left of their energy,and thats what i sometimes call the chosen addiction to misery i keep repeating that i REALLY miss the time i was suffering with extreme PW,and others simply cant understand that suffering is the shortest cut towards wisdom and insight my suffering ended that very same day when i realized what this Dr. in the video realized,,when she said ""i was SHOCKED that i'm still alive""....""i can still breath"" my suffering ended that day when i fell in love with my suffering,when i realized how great of a tool it was,that very same day my suffering decided to leave and never come back.

I don't get it.  Wish my suffering would end and never come back. In one day it all went away... I know this is old and likely not to be answered still I find it odd pw just stopped in one day and was done.... 

how could that be?

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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Ego death and reality

To be completely you means being alone. When this is experienced, it will bring very deep grief and sadness. You have to learn to say good-bye to everything you have loved -- not just your Mommy and Daddy, your boyfriend and your cat, but to your feelings, your mind, your ideas. You are in love with all of these. Letting go of them will feel like a great loss, even a death. It is not you who dies. What dies is everyone else. In the experience of ego death, you don't feel you're dying; you feel everybody else is dead. You feel you're all alone, totally alone. You have lost a boundary which was constructed from past experiences. But this boundary never really existed! It was just a belief. When you experience reality as it is, there is no sense of boundaries or of being separate, of inside or outside. (Diamond Heart Book 2, pg 169)

 

Ego death and unity

Experiencing this unity reveals to us that life is beautiful. Prior to this, when you experience yourself moving from the state of the physical or of the personality to the state of the essential or of the boundless dimensions, there is the feeling that life is a problem. The best option seems to be to get away from life, and one may long to disappear or die. From the perspective of unity, there is no such thing as dying, nor of being reborn. There is no such thing as ego death, and no such thing as enlightenment either, since you are already the unity. This is the state of affairs all the time and always -- before you develop an ego, when it is dissolving, and after you are dissolved. All those parts are the unity itself, and so you are not going anywhere. (Facets of Unity, pg 88)

 

I have considered the idea that the drug Paxil does something to break the boundaries of ego reality to the extent that we feel nothing is real; depersonalization. I think the problem is that it is too much, too harsh of an experience when we aren't ready for such an event. This can go along with the other topic about Kundalini. Maybe it's that our physical brains and nervous systems aren't a high enough vibration to withstand the energy as well, and so we have the zaps and such. Or, maybe we are still basing our identity a little too much from the ego self rather than our true self, so there isn't a firm grip of who we are, our identity, when that boundary falls and we're stuck kind of in between identities. Not fully grounded in either one. We lose knowing who we are and why we're here.

 

I've been spiritual and working on my spiritual growth for many years. I think it's just something that might not be meant to be experienced in this realm unless we've reached full enlightenment, or at least a very high attainment. I feel there is so much more to understand about this and ponder it often, it's a bit beyond my grasp but it's there in my mind as something to explore.

" I think it's just something that might not be meant to be experienced in this realm unless we've reached full enlightenment"

I have been thinking about this oddly enough today I was reading about a couple people from the 60s scientists that used drugs.  One speaks of spiritual things I still have the links open so will post them in case another comes to this some day.  

Levels of consciousness

by John Lilly MD

http://www.whale.to/b/states.html

I read his bio and watched a few of his videos. 

 

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/hamiltons-pharmacopeia/sihkal-shulgins-i-have-known-and-loved

The Shulgins... 

list of books he wrote 

read his bio too... 

 

From the Shulgins I learned Effexor is classed as a 

A classification of chemical compounds, most of which are psychoactive drugs. Beta-Phenethylamine is neurotransmitter in the brain, and it is believed to be the body's natural version of amphetamine. 

Some drugs that fall into the phenethylamine classification include all amphetamines (as well as methylphenidate), ephedrine, designer hallucinogens (2C-B, 2C-I etc.), mescaline, bupropion (Wellbutrin), and venlafaxine (Effexor), as well as the amino acids (D/L)Phenylalanine and L-Tyrosine. 

Books[edit]

I guess it is all well and good if you want to experiment with your own brain knowing your taking drugs that will kill your ego... but that is not what I was trying to do and I did not know I was taking a chance.  I liked my Ego right where it was. 

 

Could very well be I just don't get this...but my take on it is that drugs can destroy the ego and sense of self and some take drugs to help them do that ... I don't care if they do that ...fine by me... but I did not want to do that I had other plans for my life. 

period ...

I could be an old stick in the mud when I feel like I am just trying to keep my feet on the ground... not sure either way I wish you all peace.

 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • 4 months later...

I think that all SSRIs, given long enough, and in the right individual, will induce issues with depersonalization and ego syntonicity/dystonicity. It might be that the older you when you start an SSRI the less likely that is to occur, but people are remaking themselves all of their lives. If you have been on an SSRI for years I imagine you might feel more than a bit disconnected from yourself and those things that have happened during those years.

 

 

Ego death and reality
To be completely you means being alone. When this is experienced, it will bring very deep grief and sadness. You have to learn to say good-bye to everything you have loved -- not just your Mommy and Daddy, your boyfriend and your cat, but to your feelings, your mind, your ideas. You are in love with all of these. Letting go of them will feel like a great loss, even a death. It is not you who dies. What dies is everyone else. In the experience of ego death, you don't feel you're dying; you feel everybody else is dead. You feel you're all alone, totally alone. You have lost a boundary which was constructed from past experiences. But this boundary never really existed! It was just a belief. When you experience reality as it is, there is no sense of boundaries or of being separate, of inside or outside. (Diamond Heart Book 2, pg 169)

 

Extremely interesting. When my ego died I felt like my "self" died. But then again I reached a state of ego death, in part, by the realization that my personality was a series of masks I fitted on for different occasions, and to defend against hurt, past and present.

 

 

 

 

Not to go too far off topic, but the previous poster mentioned Effexor. Effexor and mirtazapine have some downstream effect on various opioid receptors (agonists of kappa-opioid receptors have been used in models of depersonalization) that make depersonalization a known side-effect of either drug. I am not a doctor.

 

 

J Mol Neurosci. 2002 Feb-Apr;18(1-2):143-9.
Venlafaxine and mirtazapine: different mechanisms of antidepressant action, common opioid-mediated antinociceptive effects--a possible opioid involvement in severe depression?
Schreiber S1, Bleich A, Pick CG.
Author information
Abstract

The efficacy of each antidepressant available has been found equal to that of amitriptyline in double-blind studies as far as mild to moderate depression is involved. However, it seems that some antidepressants are more effective than others in the treatment of severe types of depression (i.e., delusional depression and refractory depression). Following studies regarding the antinociceptive mechanisms of various antidepressants, we speculate that the involvement of the opioid system in the antidepressants' mechanism of action may be necessary, in order to prove effective in the treatment of severe depression. Among the antidepressants of the newer generations, that involvement occurs only with venlafaxine (a presynaptic drug which blocks the synaptosomal uptake of noradrenaline and serotonin and, to a lesser degree, of dopamine) and with mirtazapine (a postsynaptic drug which enhances noradrenergic and 5-HT1A-mediated serotonergic neurotransmission via antagonism of central alpha-auto- and hetero-adrenoreceptors). When mice were tested with a hotplate analgesia meter, both venlafaxine and mirtazapine induced a dose-dependent, naloxone-reversible antinociceptive effect following ip administration. Summing up the various interactions of venlafaxine and mirtazapine with opioid, noradrenergic and serotonergic agonists and antagonists, we found that the antinociceptive effect of venlafaxine is influenced by opioid receptor subtypes (mu-, kappa1- kappa3- and delta-opioid receptor subtypes) combined with the alpha2-adrenergic receptor, whereas the antinociceptive effect of mirtazapine mainly involves mu- and kappa3-opioid mechanisms. This opioid profile of the two drugs may be one of the explanations to their efficacy in severe depression, unlike the SSRIs and other antidepressants which lack opioid activity.

PMID: 11931344 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

April / 2016: Cipralex 10 mg, Mirtazapine 30 mg, Lyrica 600 mg, Diazepam 20 mg, Bystolic 5 mg

2018: Lots of polypharmacy which is undocumented here. Started and stopped several drugs and changed doses of existing ones

August / 2018: Back on track! Cipralex 15 mg, Mirtazapine 7.5 mg, Diazepam 15 mg

September 2018: Cipralex 15 mg -> 12.5 mg

October 2018: Cipralex 12.5 mg -> 10 mg, Mirtazapine 7.5 mg -> 3.75 mg -> Stopped, Diazepam 15 mg

November 2019: Cipralex 5 mg, Diazepam 10 mg

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Excellent point, Roads. The Buddhist concepts of letting go of control, resignation, or submission are similar. Or, from the Christian-influenced 12-step program, trusting your future to God.

 

I am not bashing Buddhism at all, but I think many Buddhist concepts are all about reaching a state of permanent ego death. To relieve suffering, I have heard. If you have no "self", how can you suffer?

 

EDIT: Oops sorry for the double post.

 

EDIT 2: I would also warn anyone going down this path that it may lead to healing, but some doors, once opened, can never be closed.

April / 2016: Cipralex 10 mg, Mirtazapine 30 mg, Lyrica 600 mg, Diazepam 20 mg, Bystolic 5 mg

2018: Lots of polypharmacy which is undocumented here. Started and stopped several drugs and changed doses of existing ones

August / 2018: Back on track! Cipralex 15 mg, Mirtazapine 7.5 mg, Diazepam 15 mg

September 2018: Cipralex 15 mg -> 12.5 mg

October 2018: Cipralex 12.5 mg -> 10 mg, Mirtazapine 7.5 mg -> 3.75 mg -> Stopped, Diazepam 15 mg

November 2019: Cipralex 5 mg, Diazepam 10 mg

Link to post

Yes good point careful what you wish for spiritual path not all roses can be frightening (IMO)

2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare!

 

On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect.

 

Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan.

 

 

Nightmare that could have been avoided!

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If I got drunk and had a vision... I would be told I was drunk and it would not happen when I was sober and I too would expect that... with these drugs you take every day ...like being drunk everyday...long term effects take place the brain changes... 

 

Experiences we have under the influence of drugs can be call a spriitual path if you like they have been for centuries... but to me a rock is a rock... stoned is stoned and all thiings you thought while stoned do not add up if and when you recover. 

the end

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

Link to post

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