cpuusage: history and experiences

November 8, 2018

Cpu, I'm so sorry you're struggling so much.

As far as the concept of "schizophrenia not existing", let's please set that aside. Labeling is not needed. You are you, you are human, and you are in pain. Let's work with that.

Do you think that your drugs are helping? Or are you struggling from the side effects? From the collateral damage of not being able to work and being isolated? These are things that can be worked with and when appropriate, changed so that you aren't struggling so much. But it's a process of coming off the drugs, giving yourself time to heal, and taking it from there, building on one success to the next, and picking yourself up if you stumble.

No amount of alternative treatment is going to work if what you're dealing with are adverse reactions to the drugs and / or the long-term effects such as dopamine super-sensitivity, cognitive impairment, fatigue, etc. which may be attributable to the drugs.

You have provided a wealth of information on this site in areas that many people would have never ventured. Thank you so much for doing so. I don't need to explain these types of adverse effects and long-term effects because I know you've already read Whitaker, Breggin, and many, many others.

Please note that we are a support site for coming off psychiatric drugs. We simply don't have the resources to handle what arises for those who either choose to stay on psych drugs or find that they simply aren't able to come off.

Over the years that you've been here, moderators have offered up ideas such as using a very gentle micro-taper, but you have been resistant to attempt this.

Whether or not you have an illness such as schizophrenia or whether or not you are dealing with the long-term effects of taking psych drugs is unknown. But your resistance to come off the drugs is a major roadblock coming from the ethos of this site that the drugs do more harm than good.

From my own experience of having been locked up, labeled, and drugged for what was called "manic depression" when I was 17, alternative treatments would have been so much better. 30 years of taking antipsychotics, antidepressants, stimulants, benzos and z-drugs took a massive toll on my memory, my ability to connect to nature and to spirituality, and many other aspects of simply being human. They cost me jobs, finances, and relationships. I am still grieving for this as I go into the re-build phase of my recovery.

Coming off was not really a choice I made. I either had to do it or continue to spiral downhill due to cognitive impairment. But coming off these drugs after 30 years was the best decision I've ever made. Like I stated, it's a process. A lengthy and arduous process, but to be able to really taste life now that I'm off these drugs and into the recovery phase has been profound and meaningful. If there's no other purpose out there than that, it is well worth it. I have really bad waves, but my partial windows are letting in enough light to make me see a much brighter and a much different future than the path I was headed down when I was poly-drugged.

If you wish to come off amisulpride, you will be supported and guided here on SA. But if you wish to continue on the drugs and increase the dose, please work with your doctor on the ground. I wish we had more resources here for you, CPU, because I really enjoy reading your writing and encourage you to keep exploring and adding to the information in the Finding Meaning section. But as you wisely noted, you'll need medical advice from your GP about increasing your drug. We can't offer any kind of advice about that here on SA.

I wish you well whatever path you take, CPU.

November 8, 2018

1 hour ago, Shep said:

Cpu, I'm so sorry you're struggling so much.

As far as the concept of "schizophrenia not existing", let's please set that aside. Labeling is not needed. You are you, you are human, and you are in pain. Let's work with that.

Do you think that your drugs are helping? Or are you struggling from the side effects? From the collateral damage of not being able to work and being isolated? These are things that can be worked with and when appropriate, changed so that you aren't struggling so much. But it's a process of coming off the drugs, giving yourself time to heal, and taking it from there, building on one success to the next, and picking yourself up if you stumble.

No amount of alternative treatment is going to work if what you're dealing with are adverse reactions to the drugs and / or the long-term effects such as dopamine super-sensitivity, cognitive impairment, fatigue, etc. which may be attributable to the drugs.

You have provided a wealth of information on this site in areas that many people would have never ventured. Thank you so much for doing so. I don't need to explain these types of adverse effects and long-term effects because I know you've already read Whitaker, Breggin, and many, many others.

Please note that we are a support site for coming off psychiatric drugs. We simply don't have the resources to handle what arises for those who either choose to stay on psych drugs or find that they simply aren't able to come off.

Over the years that you've been here, moderators have offered up ideas such as using a very gentle micro-taper, but you have been resistant to attempt this.

Whether or not you have an illness such as schizophrenia or whether or not you are dealing with the long-term effects of taking psych drugs is unknown. But your resistance to come off the drugs is a major roadblock coming from the ethos of this site that the drugs do more harm than good.

From my own experience of having been locked up, labeled, and drugged for what was called "manic depression" when I was 17, alternative treatments would have been so much better. 30 years of taking antipsychotics, antidepressants, stimulants, benzos and z-drugs took a massive toll on my memory, my ability to connect to nature and to spirituality, and many other aspects of simply being human. They cost me jobs, finances, and relationships. I am still grieving for this as I go into the re-build phase of my recovery.

Coming off was not really a choice I made. I either had to do it or continue to spiral downhill due to cognitive impairment. But coming off these drugs after 30 years was the best decision I've ever made. Like I stated, it's a process. A lengthy and arduous process, but to be able to really taste life now that I'm off these drugs and into the recovery phase has been profound and meaningful. If there's no other purpose out there than that, it is well worth it. I have really bad waves, but my partial windows are letting in enough light to make me see a much brighter and a much different future than the path I was headed down when I was poly-drugged.

If you wish to come off amisulpride, you will be supported and guided here on SA. But if you wish to continue on the drugs and increase the dose, please work with your doctor on the ground. I wish we had more resources here for you, CPU, because I really enjoy reading your writing and encourage you to keep exploring and adding to the information in the Finding Meaning section. But as you wisely noted, you'll need medical advice from your GP about increasing your drug. We can't offer any kind of advice about that here on SA.

I wish you well whatever path you take, CPU.

Thanks. i think it is dealing with such individual, in depth & complex areas.

i am all for people having access to comprehensive & appropriate alternatives, & for a complete transformation of this society / system / 'civilisation', & a transformation of the understandings, approaches & treatment of mental health & all those deemed to be 'mentally ill' - but i never had access to comprehensive psychological / social support alternatives & can't access it all. It has been & is an endless double bind. It's Not my fault the way i have been treated, my overall life circumstances, condition & lack of access to more appropriate understanding, care, help & support.

i don't know what other people have / do experience? Depression & Bipolar is Not schizophrenia. i think there is a certain validity within a comprehensive psychiatry & even within a more ideal system some people i think would still need a wise use of medication. A quarter of cases that come under schizophrenia simply are more severe. It can't all be put in the same terms. People are individuals & need to be taken on an individual basis.

i stopped all medication 5 times in the past & kept ending up in very severe / extreme psychosis. The medication works. i have taken extra over the past few days & it helps. Everything that i have tried within my resources & capacity has Not worked to resolve the condition.

Yes ideally i don't want to be on the medication, but i don't really see what realistic choice i had / have. The reality is that there is a very real severe underlying illness.

Some people successfully get off medications, great, maybe some of them were Not that ill or didn't need the medication in the first place, or they get the right help for their difficulties. Millions of people are being diagnosed & medicated that don't ideally need to be, i agree with that. Does that apply to all cases? i am Not so sure personally.

i left this forum for a while because of it's anti psychiatry / anti medication position. i think i personally need to accept that there is a long term no fault severe illness / condition / disability for which i need the medication for & just accept it all. & leave everyone else to debate & argue over all these areas. i'm done with it all. i shall go back to being away from the forum. i have hoped for decades that i would somehow find the appropriate understanding, help & support for my condition / illness, needs & difficulties & i have Not been able to - i don't think that such understanding, help & support exists for people like me. Endlessly debating it all on-line doesn't work & doesn't help, & all the information in the World makes No difference to my condition & circumstances. Self help doesn't work to resolve the condition.

i also don't think that any of the anti / critical / pro / alternative psychiatry / medication camp, from every biomedical, psychogenic, sociological, spiritual & integral angle is entirely correct - i think that everyone is speaking half truths & lies & have their own agendas. It is dealing with areas that so little is really fully known. Like i say, i can't deal with all the endless debate & argument over the same things any more - you can all argue it out with Twitter Wars & all the rest, & we shall see what transpires with it all, as with this 'civilisation' - i'm out.

November 8, 2018

Hello, CPU.

While this is a site for going off drugs, we don't force that on anyone. Reducing to one's lowest effective dosage is good enough. That is our long-term no-fault position. We don't judge on diagnosis, simply on the basis of how a person feels.

I'm sure you know of all the health risks associated with amulsipride and other antipsychotics. Despite what the doctors read in their textbooks, there is no one-size-fits-all dosage; those recommended dosages are guesses based on an average of large numbers of people.

The lowest dosage that allows you to function without causing a movement disorder or destroying your liver, kidneys, or insulin regulation is the best dosage for you. It could be 300mg amulsipride, it could be 305mg amulsipride, it could be 364mg amulsipride.

Or more or less, you'd have to find out. Very few physicians have the imagination to recommend a daily dosage that's between that supplied in the tablets, i.e. 50mg increments.

For some people in your position, the lowest effective dosage could be 94mg or 0mg amulsipride, but they'd have to get there very gradually, to avoid triggering the symptoms that caused a schizophrenic diagnosis in the first place. There's wide variability in human neurology -- neurodiversity -- there's no way to tell where you fall along the curve. Even a slight variation may earn a diagnosis of "schizophrenia," while that person might be able to maintain behavioral stability on little or no drug.

How long have you been at 300mg amulsipride? How has your symptom pattern changed over time? Does it go up and down? How long do your down periods last? Are you in a down period now?

You seem to be a very introspective, sensitive person. In a down period, are you seeking relief from life stress? Is such relief worth the risk of increasing your amulsipride dosage? Can psychotherapy assist?

While we won't be able to assist you on getting stable on an increased dosage -- as Shep said, that's your doctor's responsibility -- one way or the other, you are welcome to continue your philosophical musings in your topic on this site.

November 9, 2018

12 hours ago, Altostrata said:

How long have you been at 300mg amulsipride? How has your symptom pattern changed over time? Does it go up and down? How long do your down periods last? Are you in a down period now?

There is such a long & complex history with it all. i also tire of trying to explain it all, & people simply do not understand my experiences & life circumstances, & how severe / extreme the experiences of psychosis have been & nature of the condition. i am intelligent & articulate, & for the past 14 years have lived a very quiet life. People have no idea of what goes on in my inner world & how i really feel.

The bottom line is that there hasn't been & isn't the appropriate medical, psychological / social care, understanding, help & support appropriate for the condition.

The medication history is in my signature.

i had a very major period of very severe illness between 14 to 17 years ago when i stopped the medication twice. Part of me gave up after that & just accepted the schizophrenia diagnosis & medication as a lesser of evils.

i'm Not the same as a lot of other people - i never went to the medical profession for help - it was all forced treatment - i never bought into the biomedical psychiatric system. i fought the system from day one, but the realities of it all is that there simply is a very serious psychotic illness. i don't have any proper understanding & support in my life around it all. i have always had to battle it all largely alone. My mum & brother are close & loving, but there are a lot of complexities to the family dynamics. My mother has been suffering with very severe Alzheimers for the past 10 years, she has been totally physically infirm as well for the past 3 years & has very high care needs, she has not spoken in 8 years. My brother is a good person, he also has multiple health issues & has been in addiction for 35 years. There is no other close family / friends, & my bro & me are the sole carers for my mum, we get no other help or support for any of it. People don't care. & with regards to the actual realities of my life, all there is from people largely is abuse & neglect, anger, personal verbal attack, judgement & blame, or complete invalidation, trivialisation & denial of it all.

i just don't think it's realistic that i can sort it all out without proper understanding, help & support. This has always been the issue, & i am Not responsible for how this society / system is & it's failings, especially towards people deemed to be 'severely mentally ill' & treatment of people diagnosed with severe schizophrenia. People making endless projections, judgements, telling me how everything is / isn't, what i need to think & do, endless anti / critical / pro / alternative psychiatry / medication opinions does Not work.

If i end up in very severe illness & worse circumstances no one is going to care other than my brother. My brother wants me to increase the medication & the Doc i think will want to as well, & maybe that is the best thing to do currently. Yes the medication is toxic & damaging, so is severe illness, & i don't buy it that everyone has experienced genuine / severe mental illness - sure everyone suffers & has difficulties - as to what comes under a severe long term case of schizophrenia, it's about 0.1% of the population, maybe less, & i am fed up of all the bullsh*t around it all from people who have no idea what they are talking about in relation to such states / conditions.

i have been single 20 years & living alone 17 years, i have put endless amounts of work into healing & recovery, & all the progress has really been from my own efforts. A dog wouldn't go through what i have done, & most people wouldn't have had the strength to have got through it all, nor maintain the life that i do.

In relation to all the theories around schizophrenia - i have read hundreds of books on it all, & done thousands of hours of research into the condition, from every perspective. No one knows what it all is. & it may well be in a percentage of cases that it actually is primarily a no fault genetic brain developmental / functional condition, best managed in part with medication.

November 9, 2018

13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

You seem to be a very introspective, sensitive person. In a down period, are you seeking relief from life stress? Is such relief worth the risk of increasing your amulsipride dosage? Can psychotherapy assist?

While we won't be able to assist you on getting stable on an increased dosage -- as Shep said, that's your doctor's responsibility -- one way or the other, you are welcome to continue your philosophical musings in your topic on this site.

i have sought genuine care, understanding, help & support appropriate to my actual needs & condition / experiences, & have Never been able to find it.

November 9, 2018

1 hour ago, cpuusage said:

i'm Not the same as a lot of other people - i never went to the medical profession for help - it was all forced treatment - i never bought into the biomedical psychiatric system.

That's how I started out, as well. But no one is forcing us now. We have more options. The problem is finding ways of coping and along the way, allowing those ways of coping to form an identity away from the psychiatric label. This gives you more options, as you're able, because it's about building skills.

You can decide how much medication to take now and as Alto wrote, you can find the right effective dose for you. It could be what you're on now, it could be lower, it could be zero. If side effects of the drugs are a problem, it's important to seek ways of getting to the lowest effective dose and lowering your overall drug burden so you can stay as healthy as possible.

1 hour ago, cpuusage said:

i am intelligent & articulate, & for the past 14 years have lived a very quiet life. People have no idea of what goes on in my inner world & how i really feel.

When I was labeled "manic depressive", I also was tagged with a personality type, schizoid personality (it's sometimes confused with high-functioning autism). One of the features is a rich internal world.

But that internal world is very much dependent on the external world. As much as I can make my external world a bit easier, the better the internal world. Small things can be helpful.

I wonder if perhaps you can take a break from studying about your illness and instead, find some things to do away from this? Do you have any hobbies or interests that can bring you around other people and give you a break? A reading group at a library or a bookstore? A movie group? Have you checked out MeetUp.com?

Although people don't understand what you are dealing with in your internal world, you are articulate and thoughtful. And those are valuable skills, other people will appreciate getting to know you.

If you can manage a reading group or a movie group or whatever interests you and brings another focus into your life, your internal world is less focused on your illness and on the medication and you can focus on other things. It becomes a kind of "breathing space", both in your internal world and in the real world.

November 9, 2018

cpuusage - you've been through a hell of a journey. I wanted to congratulate you on your resilience in dealing with what you have, for how long you have. You're mind is quite typical of many people with psychosis I've met (I was in 4 psych wards over the years) - intelligent, brave, and with a huge capacity for information processing.

In terms of the underlying illness, and all the figuring out of cause and effect etc (I am terrible for this), it always comes back to one thing - there isn't one answer. That doesn't mean that there is no help available or hope, but trying to figure out if there is an underlying biological issue which is affected by drugs/meds/environment etc etc, is like traveling down an endless wormhole. Especially when you're prone to slipping into severely altered states of consciousness. You've probably asked yourself these questions many times - what really IS schizohprenia? what is the nature of who I am fundamentally? how do I resolve this?

You also probably know that in many cultures schizophrenia is not considered an illness, but it's symptoms are still taken very seriously none the less. Some people are just much more in touch with the 'other side' and this can cause immense distress and confusion trying to live 'normally' in 3D reality. It may not ease your suffering, but try to remember this isn't who you actually are. You're simply playing out a role, and your pain cannot last forever.

I have no advice to give you in terms of whether to wean off meds etc. But just know you are never alone, even when you feel there is nothing and no one left who understands. There are people who are experiencing the things you are right now, and there will be in the future. They are all valid, and part of the huge spectrum of human experience. Yes, we live in a Western culture that deals with mental ill health in a totally crappy way. No, you won't find a 'cure' for your condition through alternative practices. However, a spiritual practice, I've found, is important regardless of what we may or may not get out of it. It's a commitment, daily, to living out your mission in this life. I hope you can find a way to return to this 'source' in whatever way resonates most with you. You are a brave soul to have taken on this role. This isn't the end of your story, as much as it feels hopeless, it's another chapter. And there will be more.

If you haven't already seen it, can I suggest the documentary Crazywise? You might resonate with the guy featured in it. It's available on the Gaia channel, but you might also be able to stream it online.

For me personally, spiritual practice has boiled down to very simply taking each day as it comes. Each moment, breathing, presence. It's ridiculously simple, yet so hard for us human beings because we just can't fathom that it could be that simple. I keep failing, and failing again, but you can only really keep moving forward. Then you may have little glimmers of hope or 'what's beyond' when you least expect it. We're not designed to know everything now, things are hidden from us because we're just not ready to integrate them. I hope you can remember that, and also that there's a deep part of you that already knows all of this. You're living in a difficult system, but you are much more than just that, and you are not alone. x

November 9, 2018

1 hour ago, Shep said:

That's how I started out, as well. But no one is forcing us now. We have more options. The problem is finding ways of coping and along the way, allowing those ways of coping to form an identity away from the psychiatric label. This gives you more options, as you're able, because it's about building skills.

You can decide how much medication to take now and as Alto wrote, you can find the right effective dose for you. It could be what you're on now, it could be lower, it could be zero. If side effects of the drugs are a problem, it's important to seek ways of getting to the lowest effective dose and lowering your overall drug burden so you can stay as healthy as possible.

When I was labeled "manic depressive", I also was tagged with a personality type, schizoid personality (it's sometimes confused with high-functioning autism). One of the features is a rich internal world.

But that internal world is very much dependent on the external world. As much as I can make my external world a bit easier, the better the internal world. Small things can be helpful.

I wonder if perhaps you can take a break from studying about your illness and instead, find some things to do away from this? Do you have any hobbies or interests that can bring you around other people and give you a break? A reading group at a library or a bookstore? A movie group? Have you checked out MeetUp.com?

Although people don't understand what you are dealing with in your internal world, you are articulate and thoughtful. And those are valuable skills, other people will appreciate getting to know you.

If you can manage a reading group or a movie group or whatever interests you and brings another focus into your life, your internal world is less focused on your illness and on the medication and you can focus on other things. It becomes a kind of "breathing space", both in your internal world and in the real world.

i have done & do everything that i can with regards to personal responsibility, self help. living as healthily as i can - whatever the ins & outs of it all there is the reality of a long term, no fault severe illness.

For the past 10 years i have spent on average 70 hours per week without a break doing as best i can to support my mum & bro. It has been incredibly difficult, stressful & challenging circumstances. As well as that trying to maintain a degree of stability & independent living.

i have loads of interests & hobbies - i used to draw & paint all the time as a kid, i went to art college when i left school, i had a studio & put on exhibitions, i was / am an accomplished artist. Between hospitalisations in the past i worked as a chef, skilled labourer, as a carpenter, in a garden herb nursery & other jobs, i also completed 7 years of further education; in art & design, catering, computer graphics, IT / computer engineering, & have very extensively trained in alternative / complimentary healing areas, & various other stuff. i look into many different subjects / areas - over recent years i obtained some rife / radionic machines & taught myself about the whole area. i look into a lot of science, especially astrophysics, & have & continue to study all fields of human knowledge; science, philosophy, comparative religion / mythology / spirituality, the history of medicine, general / mainstream & alternative history, current affairs, all sorts of subjects. i recently obtained some small analogue synthesizers which i have been experimenting with. i have also collected over 1 thousand books again on a variety of subjects. i used to be very into films, but have lost interest within all that area & got rid of the TV over 10 years ago. As a child i also used to build a lot of models, i got back into the model building age 25 & have again got back into it all recently. i keep extensive notes & journals, with a lot of diagrams & sketches, mainly sacred geometry.

i do have contact with other people - last night i went for dinner with my friend, her 2 kids & another friend & had a good evening & a laugh.

i see a close healer friend every 2 weeks for a coffee & a chat.

i used to go regularly to all kinds of different groups, but the anxiety / social anxiety is so bad that i prefer not to, & i am fed up of groups & people. It always leads to bad experiences as well. i'm not overly keen on people.

i have again had my brother saying to me this morning that i need to increase the medication.

November 9, 2018

2 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

cpuusage - you've been through a hell of a journey. I wanted to congratulate you on your resilience in dealing with what you have, for how long you have. You're mind is quite typical of many people with psychosis I've met (I was in 4 psych wards over the years) - intelligent, brave, and with a huge capacity for information processing.

In terms of the underlying illness, and all the figuring out of cause and effect etc (I am terrible for this), it always comes back to one thing - there isn't one answer. That doesn't mean that there is no help available or hope, but trying to figure out if there is an underlying biological issue which is affected by drugs/meds/environment etc etc, is like traveling down an endless wormhole. Especially when you're prone to slipping into severely altered states of consciousness. You've probably asked yourself these questions many times - what really IS schizohprenia? what is the nature of who I am fundamentally? how do I resolve this?

You also probably know that in many cultures schizophrenia is not considered an illness, but it's symptoms are still taken very seriously none the less. Some people are just much more in touch with the 'other side' and this can cause immense distress and confusion trying to live 'normally' in 3D reality. It may not ease your suffering, but try to remember this isn't who you actually are. You're simply playing out a role, and your pain cannot last forever.

I have no advice to give you in terms of whether to wean off meds etc. But just know you are never alone, even when you feel there is nothing and no one left who understands. There are people who are experiencing the things you are right now, and there will be in the future. They are all valid, and part of the huge spectrum of human experience. Yes, we live in a Western culture that deals with mental ill health in a totally crappy way. No, you won't find a 'cure' for your condition through alternative practices. However, a spiritual practice, I've found, is important regardless of what we may or may not get out of it. It's a commitment, daily, to living out your mission in this life. I hope you can find a way to return to this 'source' in whatever way resonates most with you. You are a brave soul to have taken on this role. This isn't the end of your story, as much as it feels hopeless, it's another chapter. And there will be more.

If you haven't already seen it, can I suggest the documentary Crazywise? You might resonate with the guy featured in it. It's available on the Gaia channel, but you might also be able to stream it online.

For me personally, spiritual practice has boiled down to very simply taking each day as it comes. Each moment, breathing, presence. It's ridiculously simple, yet so hard for us human beings because we just can't fathom that it could be that simple. I keep failing, and failing again, but you can only really keep moving forward. Then you may have little glimmers of hope or 'what's beyond' when you least expect it. We're not designed to know everything now, things are hidden from us because we're just not ready to integrate them. I hope you can remember that, and also that there's a deep part of you that already knows all of this. You're living in a difficult system, but you are much more than just that, and you are not alone. x

Thank you for the understanding reply. i am very aware of all this. i have watched crazywise - i am very aware of all the alternatives within all these areas, & in regards to the history with it all, especially the past 400 years in the 'West'. i have always had a deep interest in spirituality. i have had a far more dedicated & disciplined spiritual path & practice over the past 17 years. i tend to follow a non dual path -

Nondualism _

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondualism

https://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/3_levels_of_nondual_Reality.html

i spend time when i can in peace & quiet contemplation - i have a collection of crystals, light some sage & candles.

i don't think the history & treatment of 'madness' is clear cut - within traditional / shamanic / indigenous, other times & cultures; ancient Egyptian, Indus valley / Vedic, ancient Tibet, Golden Age of Islam, Greek / Roman & many others, it is a very complex & in depth picture with it all.

& yes you are right - it is wise to simply be in the now / present moment, to try & accept everything as it is, & that everything is as it needs to be.

i have no idea what to do about the medication. Actual reality, evidence & experience is that however i have tried coming off it, i go into very severe & extreme psychosis. There isn't the support in my life to help me through such states, & i don't want to go back into those states either. i can't switch off from the past, especially the major psychotic episode & forced hospitalisation aged 17.

i have found a very good psychologist, but can't start work with her until June 2019. i don't know if it will help, but it seems like she will be genuinely validating & deeply listen to my own experiences & story / perceptions, without any of the projections / explanations / suggestions, judgement, anger & blame that is all i seem to mainly get from others.

November 9, 2018

CPU, what symptoms are you having? Trouble sleeping? Voices? Feeling yourself moving into altered states?

Did your previous withdrawal involve a microtaper faster than 5% a month?

Sorry for bombarding you with questions, but you seem to be seeking help here so I want to touch on all the bases.

70 hours a week as a caregiver for your mum and brother is a lot. Are you feeling caretaker fatigue? Are there agencies where you live that could help?

You have an amazing list of abilities and talents. If getting you some help with the caretaker tasks could be arranged, perhaps you could get more rest.

Just some thoughts.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Shep
Fixed typo

November 9, 2018

i am also constantly aware of all the following -

That this planet is a small blue speck within a Galaxy with some 200 billion stars, with likely billions of inhabited / life planets around those stars. Within a 'known' Universe of 200 Trillion Galaxies, that may be infinite or part of an infinite multiverse. & all that may even be a 'small' part of the full extent of all of reality if considering different dimensional & density realities.

i also cannot be categorically sure of any of the following, but it is constant themes that have & do come up -

How much my condition is severe mental illness / paranoid schizophrenia & in part a genetic brain condition for which i need medication, a psychological / social disability. & how much aspects of psychological / spiritual crisis, or integral / differential. There has certainly been a lot of past highly delusional experiences.

That there is an Ancient, Age old battle between Light & Dark forces, which is also discussed within all the World's religions, mythology & spirituality.
That we are under a 6 thousand year (or longer) rule by Draco / Orion / Sirian Alien / Reptilians / other Alien factions, the grey alien / clone lackeys, with their breeding & abduction program & a cabal that seeks the total enslavement of humanity.
A world run by & for psychopaths.
A global control system; economic, political, exoteric religious educational & mainstream media.
A secret space program from at least the 1930's, if not before.
Suppressed technologies; free / zero point energy, anti-gravity, electromagnetic healing & other technologies.
Suppression of deeper / traditional spirituality - Gnostic, Mystic, Shamanic, Witchcraft / Magick, esoteric & occult areas.
Suppression of some forms of psychosis as being potentially transformative; psychological / spiritual crisis.
Suppression of Jungian / Depth / Transpersonal psychology, NDE / OBE / Astral travel / psychedelic / Etheogen experience / ESP / Psychic / Empath / HSP (Highly Sensitive Person) areas.
Suppression of global systemic alternatives (a genuinely advanced & civilised global system / civilisation) & comprehensive alternative approaches to mental health & people suffering mental illnesses, such as Diabasis / Soteria / i-Ward / Windhorse etc, (Comprehensive psychological / social / holistic alternatives).

Agenda of Atheist scientism materialism, along with exoteric / organised religion. Denial of Source / Great Spirit / spiritual realms & realities / Soul / Psyche / primacy of awareness / consciousness.

An Alliance; light side alien resistance, enlightened Beings, 3 waves of volunteers & the new earth, children of the 5th world, a divine plan for the earth & humanity. Transition into the Age of Aquarius, the Golden Age.

November 9, 2018

27 minutes ago, Shep said:

CPU, what symptoms are you having? Trouble sleeping? Voices? Feeling yourself moving into altered states?

Did your previous withdrawal involve a microtaper faster than 5% a month?

Sorry for bombarding you with questions, but you seem to be seeking help here so I want to touch on all the bases.

70 hours a week as a caregiver for your mum and brother is a lot. Are you feeling caretaker fatigue? Are there agencies where you live that could help?

You have an amazing list of abilities and talents. If getting you some help with the caretaker tasks could be arranged, perhaps you could get more rest.

Just some thoughts.

It's too much to try & go into & explain all the realities of my situation & circumstances - there is Not the help / support. This has always been part of the issue. i am in the UK, & it is a horrendous situation under the right wing Tory Government for the poor, sick & disabled, with continuing cuts, austerity, welfare 'reforms' etc. People are dying on the streets. If people are not effected they don't care.

The last withdrawal i went from 200mg to 0mg over the space of 2 years, but i started to get ill from the start of the taper. When i stopped i had voices shouting at me, visions / hallucinations more real than physical reality, severe delusions, extreme fear / terror / paranoia. i also went well over 2 weeks with zero sleep, & started having non drink / drug related blackouts. When i went back on the medication for a year afterwards i could only sleep for 1 or 2 hours a night. i had no contact with any medical / mental health services during all that time. & with the previous 2 major psychotic episodes, over an 8 year period. There has been very little contact with mental health services, other than primarily with the 4 hospitalisations age 17, 21, 25 & 26.

Voices has never been a main symptom. It is non ordinary states / perceptions / 'delusions'. A lot of very intense / bad feelings in my heart / inner World.

November 9, 2018

38 minutes ago, Shep said:

CPU, what symptoms are you having? Trouble sleeping? Voices? Feeling yourself moving into altered states?

Constant worry & stress about my personal situation & circumstances.
Constant worry & stress with the national / global situation.
Poor sleep / incredibly vivid dreams / nightmares.
Fluctuating very intense / severe anxiety / very bad feelings in my heart.
Severe lack of energy / motivation / feels like i can't continue to cope with everything on a daily basis.
Fluctuating anger & frustration with this society / system / 'civilisation' / people in general, & constant mistrust, paranoia & hyper-vigilance with it all.
Constantly reliving the past.
Feelings of being in an increasing non-ordinary / psychotic state.

November 9, 2018

I've had a lot of the same thoughts, although only ever been borderline psychotic in certain instances. I really do feel for you. From here, it sounds like you are a highly attuned person, sometimes the more you delve into this stuff the scarier it is. Most people have no clue they don't live in the world they think they live in. The thing is, we have to try and find a way to live in the world regardless.

I also follow a non dual practice since withdrawal. I had to surrender most previous spiritual avenues as my mind attacked them in every which way (long story). But I found the teachings of Adyashanti popped up at the time and was just what I needed. In these cases, where the person is prone to psychosis or even simply paranoid / obsessive thinking, non dual teachings can be very helpful. I also found Stan Grof's work on spiritual emergency helpful in the earlier stages, they have a support group online if you havent checked it out. Specifically for people who have had these experiences, his wife in fact went through 12 (or 8?) years of psychosis during her awakening, which almost cost her her life. There was no support in this area and that's where their work and research sprung from. She did recover though.

Regardless, you have enough insight to know this isn't something that you can work through quickly. It's a life long journey. Shep has given some great advice, and I really encourage you to keep posting here for support, even if it feels pointless. It's important to keep a link.

November 9, 2018

7 minutes ago, AbbyElfie said:

I've had a lot of the same thoughts, although only ever been borderline psychotic in certain instances. I really do feel for you. From here, it sounds like you are a highly attuned person, sometimes the more you delve into this stuff the scarier it is. Most people have no clue they don't live in the world they think they live in. The thing is, we have to try and find a way to live in the world regardless.

I also follow a non dual practice since withdrawal. I had to surrender most previous spiritual avenues as my mind attacked them in every which way (long story). But I found the teachings of Adyashanti popped up at the time and was just what I needed. In these cases, where the person is prone to psychosis or even simply paranoid / obsessive thinking, non dual teachings can be very helpful. I also found Stan Grof's work on spiritual emergency helpful in the earlier stages, they have a support group online if you havent checked it out. Specifically for people who have had these experiences, his wife in fact went through 12 (or 8?) years of psychosis during her awakening, which almost cost her her life. There was no support in this area and that's where their work and research sprung from. She did recover though.

Regardless, you have enough insight to know this isn't something that you can work through quickly. It's a life long journey. Shep has given some great advice, and I really encourage you to keep posting here for support, even if it feels pointless. It's important to keep a link.

Thanks. Yes, we have to live in this World within the realities of the ways it all is. This World is Not as it appears, or the way most people think it is. i think that most people are in a kind of collective / mass delusion.

i have read, listened to, studied & applied a lot of Stan Grof's work, & Adyashanti, Eckhart Tolle, Carl Jung, Ramana Maharshi, Robert Adams, Jiddu Krishnamurti, Blavatsky, Alice Bailey, Osho & many others, as well as studying a lot of the ancient / traditional universal wisdom / perennial philosophy, especially the ancient Vedic.

i have been a member of numerous on-line & real World spiritual development & support groups.

i have had increasingly similar issues with a lot of spirituality areas, for possibly similar reasons, 'everyone' is now a new age healer, shaman, expert, guru etc. i don't think that many people have been , or are genuinely self / god realised - Ramana Maharshi i think was very genuine with regards to self realisation & Carl Jung with regards to psychology. Not the kind of calibre of people that it is easy to find & work with, especially within this day & age. i have become increasingly soured with a lot of 'new age', neo shamanic, spiritual crisis / emergence, & associated areas. i also think that for a lot of people it is a way of cashing in on self help, spirituality & mental health areas. There are very often agendas with it all as there is with every area.

With regards to on-line help & support, it has been for me a very mixed bag. i take a genuinely integral viewpoint, i don't entirely agree with any of the anti / critical / pro / alternative psychiatry / medication areas - i think that none of it is the full picture or right approach. & i often end up arguing with people in all the different camps. i think that there are aspects of truth to all the different areas & perspectives this subject involves. i think that there most likely are individual, in depth, complex & multiple factors implicated across biological, psychogenic, sociological & spiritual / transpersonal areas.

Yes it does seem to be a lifelong journey with it all.

i try & live a quiet & peaceful life - to practise being kind, gentle & peaceful, to do what is right, good & kind, to be humble, compassionate & of service - as best that i am able to be, as a flawed & imperfect human being.

Thank you for understanding & chatting. i feel a bit better for chatting with you. X

November 9, 2018

I'm really glad you feel a little better. And yes, you're totally right about new age spirituality. It's a whole issue in and of itself, and the real dark night of the soul seems to throw all practices, traditions and theories out of the window. It's as if life is demanding you dig deep for your own, direct experience of 'god', in the meantime throwing up every potential horror abd trauma your subconscious can conjure up. Adyashanti has talked about this precipice, like standing on the edge of the unknown. But it's definitely an ongoing process, I was very naive when I first began meditating and went through my own phase of spiritual materialism. I didn't even know how bad it was. You're right in that most people are living in delusion, Buddhists etc have known this for ages, but it's a very tough pill to swallow.

Sometimes I think why the hell did I 'choose' this, what is it I'm supposed to be learning etc. Little answers only pop up when I'm really quiet and still and not expecting it. Which makes withdrawal - plus severe ocd fears, cognitive issues, depression, akathisia and all the rest of it - an incredibly painful place to be. (how often are you able to relax into that state with all of that chaos on a daily basis??) I imagine it's even more so for you.

But it sounds like you're doing your best, and I hope things become a bit clearer for you in time as to what to do next. Keep me updated x

November 9, 2018

4 minutes ago, AbbyElfie said:

I'm really glad you feel a little better. And yes, you're totally right about new age spirituality. It's a whole issue in and of itself, and the real dark night of the soul seems to throw all practices, traditions and theories out of the window. It's as if life is demanding you dig deep for your own, direct experience of 'god', in the meantime throwing up every potential horror abd trauma your subconscious can conjure up. Adyashanti has talked about this precipice, like standing on the edge of the unknown. But it's definitely an ongoing process, I was very naive when I first began meditating and went through my own phase of spiritual materialism. I didn't even know how bad it was. You're right in that most people are living in delusion, Buddhists etc have known this for ages, but it's a very tough pill to swallow.

Sometimes I think why the hell did I 'choose' this, what is it I'm supposed to be learning etc. Little answers only pop up when I'm really quiet and still and not expecting it. Which makes withdrawal - plus severe ocd fears, cognitive issues, depression, akathisia and all the rest of it - an incredibly painful place to be. (how often are you able to relax into that state with all of that chaos on a daily basis??) I imagine it's even more so for you.

But it sounds like you're doing your best, and I hope things become a bit clearer for you in time as to what to do next. Keep me updated x

Thank you for being real, honest, human & understanding with it all. i am very sorry to hear of all your own pain, struggles & challenges with it all.

i am sure that our current lives are only a very small part of the bigger picture in relation to the journey of the soul.

6 years ago after all the 2012 nonsense i had had it with almost the entire spirituality areas. i just wanted to focus on a mundane living of my life away from all these types of people / areas. Since then i somehow have managed to get heavily involved with another local healer, & heavily involved with a shamanic practitioner in the USA. 17 years of working with alternative / spiritual healers & i don't feel that it has really resolved anything, has in ways created even more confusion & there are a lot of bad stories that i could relate within all these areas as well.

Time is passing by. i have always wanted to try long term appropriate psychological help. i am really hoping that this psychologist who i have found will be able to help in June next year, if i can work with her longer term.

i have been told so many things by healers, & psychics, & had so much verbal abuse from a percentage of people, especially on-line.

i would like to go & live in some kind of genuine asylum for the rest of my life & be looked after. Have wanted that for the past 20 years.

November 9, 2018

Yes, most of us wish we could find more lovingkindness in the world, not to mention those supportive services, which are all too scarce. You're not the only one!

6 hours ago, cpuusage said:

Constant worry & stress about my personal situation & circumstances.
Constant worry & stress with the national / global situation.
Poor sleep / incredibly vivid dreams / nightmares.
Fluctuating very intense / severe anxiety / very bad feelings in my heart.
Severe lack of energy / motivation / feels like i can't continue to cope with everything on a daily basis.
Fluctuating anger & frustration with this society / system / 'civilisation' / people in general, & constant mistrust, paranoia & hyper-vigilance with it all.
Constantly reliving the past.
Feelings of being in an increasing non-ordinary / psychotic state.

This sounds like anxiety rather than psychosis.

Some people are very sensitive to lack of sleep. What can we do to improve your sleep? Do you keep your bedroom very dark, have regular hours for sleeping and waking, get at least a half-hour of gentle exercise every day, and get off the computer by nightfall?

November 9, 2018

I used to get that urge too, to just go live in a mental hospital forever. It's a weird feeling.

Our stories are quite similar. My withdrawal coincided with a huge questioning of my whole spiritual life, OCD got a hold of it and it got to the point where I just wanted to get away from the whole thing. Ever since I've been learning that it's not something out there, and spiritual connection can certainly come in the form of just a simple life. My friend is a buddhist nun and teacher at the centre I used to go to, and she said something at one point that made me realise that getting long term psychological help was part of my spiritual journey, not a separate thing. my mind had totally divided spiritual and 'non spiritual' things, creating a huge split and an even more huge mess psychologically.

I think the fundamental thing for anyone in this situation is to tap into their own inner compass, which can be a lifelong thing. That means that right now, the bedt thing I can do for myself spiritually is to find a way to ground myself and seek good therapy, along with being open to spirit as much as I can in daily life (often very difficult, but just remaining open).

Hopefully this therapist will be able to help you next year. It would be great if something turned up for you in the meantime. Learning to trust again will probably be my biggest obstacle throughout all of this, it's really the fundamental basis of healing. That, and an openness to the possibility.

November 10, 2018

10 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Yes, most of us wish we could find more lovingkindness in the world, not to mention those supportive services, which are all too scarce. You're not the only one!

This sounds like anxiety rather than psychosis.

Some people are very sensitive to lack of sleep. What can we do to improve your sleep? Do you keep your bedroom very dark, have regular hours for sleeping and waking, get at least a half-hour of gentle exercise every day, and get off the computer by nightfall?

Yes i do that & i do sleep. i live as healthily a life as possible, & do the best that i can under the situation & circumstances.

i have woke up again feeling bad. Morning are generally worse.

i think it's a case of simply accepting the schizophrenia diagnosis & medication.

November 10, 2018

10 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

I used to get that urge too, to just go live in a mental hospital forever. It's a weird feeling.

Our stories are quite similar. My withdrawal coincided with a huge questioning of my whole spiritual life, OCD got a hold of it and it got to the point where I just wanted to get away from the whole thing. Ever since I've been learning that it's not something out there, and spiritual connection can certainly come in the form of just a simple life. My friend is a buddhist nun and teacher at the centre I used to go to, and she said something at one point that made me realise that getting long term psychological help was part of my spiritual journey, not a separate thing. my mind had totally divided spiritual and 'non spiritual' things, creating a huge split and an even more huge mess psychologically.

I think the fundamental thing for anyone in this situation is to tap into their own inner compass, which can be a lifelong thing. That means that right now, the bedt thing I can do for myself spiritually is to find a way to ground myself and seek good therapy, along with being open to spirit as much as I can in daily life (often very difficult, but just remaining open).

Hopefully this therapist will be able to help you next year. It would be great if something turned up for you in the meantime. Learning to trust again will probably be my biggest obstacle throughout all of this, it's really the fundamental basis of healing. That, and an openness to the possibility.

Yes. i feel that i really do need the opportunity of someone to deeply listen to & validate a lot of things. i need more in the way of understanding & support.

A simple life is best & an acceptance of what is.

i do see everything as part of one reality, with the individuated self - that what we consider to be matter & psyche are intertwined. All is Brahman.

i'm not sure that there is any issue with the soul / spiritual aspects of my Being / self.

The issue for me is on a physical / psychogenic / environmental level. & it makes sense to me that biology, psychology & sociology is all interrelated, as well as soul / spirit. We are whole Beings.

In my case i feel that it does make sense in what psychiatry says it all is - a no fault severe mental illness, with primary genetic, epigenetic, brain developmental, functional condition. That i need the medication to manage. Why is that so unreasonable to some people? Am i Not allowed to have a No fault biological condition, & to get proper treatment, understanding, help & support for it all?

i don't think that most people do have a severe mental illness. You are probably looking at about 4% of the population with a diagnosable severe mental illness, & of them probably less than 1% where it is a very serious condition. No that doesn't negate other people's suffering & difficulties - But it is putting things into context as to what things are.

i now find a lot of all the anti / critical / alternative psychiatry / medication areas too invalidating of some peoples conditions, suffering, experiences & circumstances. i don't like all the inferences of blame either, & that it's all down to personal responsibility - if there was a way of resolving my own illness / condition then it would have been resolved by now. i have done & am doing the best that i can within my overall life circumstances, with the resources that i have available & with the reality of the condition / illness.

November 10, 2018

Hello cpuusage,

I am really new on this forum, but your topic caught my interest because I have in the past also entertained many of the same lines of spiritual/philosophical thinking that you have/do.

I suffered a profound spiritual emergency in 2000 - 2001 and was then on the verge of a psychotic break.

Once out of the psychiatric unit (where I quickly learned to not share my spiritual insights), I was fortunate to be intuitively led to Jungian practitioners in my area. I have been able to share “everything” with them, without judgment. I hope that you will also find such a therapeutic relationship with the therapist you will begin seeing.

22 hours ago, cpuusage said:

i am also constantly aware of all the following -

That this planet is a small blue speck within a Galaxy with some 200 billion stars, with likely billions of inhabited / life planets around those stars. Within a 'known' Universe of 200 Trillion Galaxies, that may be infinite or part of an infinite multiverse. & all that may even be a 'small' part of the full extent of all of reality if considering different dimensional & density realities.

i also cannot be categorically sure of any of the following, but it is constant themes that have & do come up -

How much my condition is severe mental illness / paranoid schizophrenia & in part a genetic brain condition for which i need medication, a psychological / social disability. & how much aspects of psychological / spiritual crisis, or integral / differential. There has certainly been a lot of past highly delusional experiences.

That there is an Ancient, Age old battle between Light & Dark forces, which is also discussed within all the World's religions, mythology & spirituality.
That we are under a 6 thousand year (or longer) rule by Draco / Orion / Sirian Alien / Reptilians / other Alien factions, the grey alien / clone lackeys, with their breeding & abduction program & a cabal that seeks the total enslavement of humanity.
A world run by & for psychopaths.
A global control system; economic, political, exoteric religious educational & mainstream media.
A secret space program from at least the 1930's, if not before.
Suppressed technologies; free / zero point energy, anti-gravity, electromagnetic healing & other technologies.
Suppression of deeper / traditional spirituality - Gnostic, Mystic, Shamanic, Witchcraft / Magick, esoteric & occult areas.
Suppression of some forms of psychosis as being potentially transformative; psychological / spiritual crisis.
Suppression of Jungian / Depth / Transpersonal psychology, NDE / OBE / Astral travel / psychedelic / Etheogen experience / ESP / Psychic / Empath / HSP (Highly Sensitive Person) areas.
Suppression of global systemic alternatives (a genuinely advanced & civilised global system / civilisation) & comprehensive alternative approaches to mental health & people suffering mental illnesses, such as Diabasis / Soteria / i-Ward / Windhorse etc, (Comprehensive psychological / social / holistic alternatives).

Agenda of Atheist scientism materialism, along with exoteric / organised religion. Denial of Source / Great Spirit / spiritual realms & realities / Soul / Psyche / primacy of awareness / consciousness.

An Alliance; light side alien resistance, enlightened Beings, 3 waves of volunteers & the new earth, children of the 5th world, a divine plan for the earth & humanity. Transition into the Age of Aquarius, the Golden Age.

Over the years, being very spiritually sensitive, there were times when I felt aware of so much that it overwhelmed me, mostly because (at the time) I tended to obsess about the state of the world we live in and all that was happening “behind the scenes,” so to speak. I somehow (erroneously) thought that because I was aware, it was also my responsibility to do something about it all. But things like you mention above (which I have also entertained) are some pretty big fish to fry!

In time, I came to realize that the only thing in this world I own responsibility for is the very small piece of earth that I stand on…and, that, I alone am a big enough puzzle for me to solve. I believe that, In the end, it is making our own personal universe better that helps us to make the world better. You remarked on a very grounded approach below:

5 hours ago, cpuusage said:

Yes. i feel that i really do need the opportunity of someone to deeply listen to & validate a lot of things. i need more in the way of understanding & support.

A simple life is best & an acceptance of what is.

I personally found getting back to fundamentals a very important thing for me to do. Remember the old adage, “Chop wood, carry water.” For me, attending to the basic necessities in the mundane life has been very, very healing.

Whatever "you" decide, I hope you find peace in your journey,

Cleerity

November 10, 2018

1 minute ago, Cleerity said:

Whatever "you" decide, I hope you find peace in your journey,

Cleerity

Thank you for the kind message. Glad that you have found healing & transformation.

We are all on our own path & journey. i tend to see things within my own case as differential - aspects of mental illness & spiritual crisis.

It seems wise for me personally to just accept the diagnosis / condition / medication.

There has been a lot of progress, but there has also been a lot of illness.

i have worked with alternative / spiritual healers, & trained as one for 17 years - But it hasn't more fully resolved certain things.

i think that things are highly individual for people. i am very aware of all the different arguments, perspectives, opinions, controversies & treatments around mental health.

& yes you are right, that we can only focus on our own little bit of things.

November 10, 2018

3 minutes ago, cpuusage said:

i think that things are highly individual for people

Yes.

Very best wishes to you...

November 10, 2018

6 hours ago, cpuusage said:

In my case i feel that it does make sense in what psychiatry says it all is - a no fault severe mental illness, with primary genetic, epigenetic, brain developmental, functional condition. That i need the medication to manage. Why is that so unreasonable to some people? Am i Not allowed to have a No fault biological condition, & to get proper treatment, understanding, help & support for it all?

i don't think that most people do have a severe mental illness. You are probably looking at about 4% of the population with a diagnosable severe mental illness, & of them probably less than 1% where it is a very serious condition. No that doesn't negate other people's suffering & difficulties - But it is putting things into context as to what things are.

I think you know your own condition well enough to have this insight - there is definitely a tendency for anti-psych groups to invalidate people's experiences. There could well be a primary physical/genetic/developmental aspect to your condition, and I totally agree that a small percentage of the population suffer from this form of illness. You really do, as you say, need your experiences validated and listened to. I am not a professional, but I acknowledge that you know yourself better than anyone and I believe your thoughts on your illness are completely valid.

I think I read in your earlier posts about early drug use, do you think this could have had a serious physical effect on brain development? I had my own issues with drug abuse, but thankfully not till I was around 19/20. Early exposure to mind altering stuff would, I imagine, really disturb your sense of reality. Funnily enough, it was the drug abuse in response to psychological pain that actually lead me to my whits end, experimenting with psychedelics and eventually doing 2 Ayahuasca ceremonies which were truly life changing. Despite the fact that I've got unwell since then, the experience with Aya, all the unconditional love and realisation that there is so much more beyond all this, never really leaves you on some level. So I'm hugely grateful for those experiences.

Given my tendency to go deeper into everything, I'd probably start questioning what the nature of this physical, fundamental issue is...as in, if all things are the nature of change, then there is certainly hope for your physiology to heal or improve in some form, even if that means medication? It's really a tough situation to be in, but as my Buddhist friend said to me in crisis once, 'there is ALWAYS something that can be done'. Does that mean you will be able to come off meds completely? Maybe not. Does it mean you will find a cure? Probably not. Does that mean there is hope and always the possibility of improvement? Absolutely.

Even though my mental health issues weren't as severe as yours, I have battled with this issue for several years...Is there something fundamentally underlying in me that means I can't just 'think positive' or 'get myself out of it if I really want to' (that's the vibe you get off a lot of people). The depth of the trauma in withdrawal has lead to me trying to get this through to professionals for years, with that same feeling of not being listened to. They blame everything on anxiety/OCD. Having said that, recently some stuff has come up which suggests I might have had some early childhood trauma that I wasn't aware of. It's come up before, and there's a lot of evidence pointing in that direction, but I'm also afraid I'm just being totally paranoid and looking for a way to validate that hellish experience of complete and utter dis-empowerment/annihilation. I guess, since I'm doing Somatic Experiencing therapy, if something needs to come up it will in time. I'm constantly afraid of deluding myself or not knowing what's 'real'. Earlier this year my main issue was complete obsession over whether I was having a spiritual crisis or just was genuinely screwed up. In reality, the two can overlap. It's really hard to draw the line.

@Cleerity made some really lovely points, thank you for sharing. cpu I hope you're feeling a bit better today x

November 10, 2018

20 minutes ago, AbbyElfie said:

I think you know your own condition well enough to have this insight - there is definitely a tendency for anti-psych groups to invalidate people's experiences. There could well be a primary physical/genetic/developmental aspect to your condition, and I totally agree that a small percentage of the population suffer from this form of illness. You really do, as you say, need your experiences validated and listened to. I am not a professional, but I acknowledge that you know yourself better than anyone and I believe your thoughts on your illness are completely valid.

I think I read in your earlier posts about early drug use, do you think this could have had a serious physical effect on brain development? I had my own issues with drug abuse, but thankfully not till I was around 19/20. Early exposure to mind altering stuff would, I imagine, really disturb your sense of reality. Funnily enough, it was the drug abuse in response to psychological pain that actually lead me to my whits end, experimenting with psychedelics and eventually doing 2 Ayahuasca ceremonies which were truly life changing. Despite the fact that I've got unwell since then, the experience with Aya, all the unconditional love and realisation that there is so much more beyond all this, never really leaves you on some level. So I'm hugely grateful for those experiences.

Given my tendency to go deeper into everything, I'd probably start questioning what the nature of this physical, fundamental issue is...as in, if all things are the nature of change, then there is certainly hope for your physiology to heal or improve in some form, even if that means medication? It's really a tough situation to be in, but as my Buddhist friend said to me in crisis once, 'there is ALWAYS something that can be done'. Does that mean you will be able to come off meds completely? Maybe not. Does it mean you will find a cure? Probably not. Does that mean there is hope and always the possibility of improvement? Absolutely.

Even though my mental health issues weren't as severe as yours, I have battled with this issue for several years...Is there something fundamentally underlying in me that means I can't just 'think positive' or 'get myself out of it if I really want to' (that's the vibe you get off a lot of people). The depth of the trauma in withdrawal has lead to me trying to get this through to professionals for years, with that same feeling of not being listened to. They blame everything on anxiety/OCD. Having said that, recently some stuff has come up which suggests I might have had some early childhood trauma that I wasn't aware of. It's come up before, and there's a lot of evidence pointing in that direction, but I'm also afraid I'm just being totally paranoid and looking for a way to validate that hellish experience of complete and utter dis-empowerment/annihilation. I guess, since I'm doing Somatic Experiencing therapy, if something needs to come up it will in time. I'm constantly afraid of deluding myself or not knowing what's 'real'. Earlier this year my main issue was complete obsession over whether I was having a spiritual crisis or just was genuinely screwed up. In reality, the two can overlap. It's really hard to draw the line.

@Cleerity made some really lovely points, thank you for sharing. cpu I hope you're feeling a bit better today x

Hi. Thank you for the reply. It is incredibly difficult to be categorical about things. Nothing is really comparable, but some people i feel do need treatment & medication.

i am sure that there was pre / perinatal / early brain & emotional development stuff. Then age 6 i had a serious accident / head & neck trauma.

There was very difficult family dynamics. So much has gone on.

Yes the early drink / drug use as well i am sure played a part.

It seems that there are multiple factors. As far as i can square it all i'd feel that it is differential & integral - aspects of mental illness & spiritual crisis / emergence, & involving mind, body. soul, spirit & environment - areas of biology, psychology, sociology & spirituality. A whole person condition.

The thing is that the medication does work very well. Maybe it's better for me to try & focus on entirely other areas & try & stop searching for answers with it all.

i hope that you find more healing & peace yourself in your own life & journey.

November 10, 2018

1 hour ago, AbbyElfie said:

I think you know your own condition well enough to have this insight - there is definitely a tendency for anti-psych groups to invalidate people's experiences. There could well be a primary physical/genetic/developmental aspect to your condition, and I totally agree that a small percentage of the population suffer from this form of illness. You really do, as you say, need your experiences validated and listened to. I am not a professional, but I acknowledge that you know yourself better than anyone and I believe your thoughts on your illness are completely valid.

Thank you for validating me, i just think it's logical that there are variable biological factors within some people's conditions / experiences. i do think variable biological, psychogenic, sociological & spiritual / transpersonal factors can all be implicated - i don't see it as either / or, far rather both / &.

i don't agree with the denial of mental illness.

Of course i fully agree with there being far better understandings & approaches to all these areas, & that people should be far better treated.

The internet & society is full of every opinion under the sun.

i will see what the GP / Doc says about everything when i go see him next Wednesday. It may well be that an increase of the Amisulpride from 300mg to 350mg or 400mg really helps?

i know that this is an anti psychiatry / anti medication site, but as time has gone on i have become far less anti psychiatry / anti medication.

November 10, 2018

1 hour ago, cpuusage said:

The thing is that the medication does work very well. Maybe it's better for me to try & focus on entirely other areas & try & stop searching for answers with it all.

I think this is a good call. As someone with years of experience with OCD 'checking' and ruminating behaviours, I can tell you that the real answers only come when we stop looking for them. That's why treatment for it is based on stopping the rumination or looking for conclusions, they really do just make you worse.

Also, one of the things that has always made my condition worse (ironically) is the internet. As you say, there are countless opinions and viewpoints, and it can easily end up just baffling and overwhelming you. I have to go through periods of avoiding it, including books, documentary films...basically any in depth 'information'. At some point you have to stop taking in more info.

I really do wish you the best with your journey, and hope you find what works for you. Keep me in the loop with how things go

November 10, 2018

5 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

I think this is a good call. As someone with years of experience with OCD 'checking' and ruminating behaviours, I can tell you that the real answers only come when we stop looking for them. That's why treatment for it is based on stopping the rumination or looking for conclusions, they really do just make you worse.

Also, one of the things that has always made my condition worse (ironically) is the internet. As you say, there are countless opinions and viewpoints, and it can easily end up just baffling and overwhelming you. I have to go through periods of avoiding it, including books, documentary films...basically any in depth 'information'. At some point you have to stop taking in more info.

I really do wish you the best with your journey, and hope you find what works for you. Keep me in the loop with how things go

Thank you. The thing is that i have always been in favour of a totally different society / system / civilisation, & totally different mental health system & treatment of people. But the reality is that we don't live in such a society / system & don't have such a mental health system & treatment. i would have loved access to totally different treatment, but the reality is that i wasn't treated differently, & have been through what i have done. There simply is a very severe underlying illness, that if i don't take the medication for it i end up very severely unwell.

An endless on-line debate about it all doesn't really change anything. i still have the condition, illness, & am in the realities of my overall life circumstances & current situation. Working with healers doesn't change the realities of it all either.

i have literally now exhausted all the information / areas all this goes into from all opinions / perspectives. & it is pointless to keep going round & round with the same circles with it all. It also doesn't change the condition / circumstances.

Talk is also cheap - bottom line the only people to have ever really been there for me through any of it has been my mother & brother, no one else really on any genuinely practical & consistent basis. It's easy to just fire off opinions & suggestions & tell other people how it all is & what they should think / not think & do / not do - especially on the internet. i don't mean you, just people in general, i don't find it helpful.

i wish you all the best with your own journey as well.

November 12, 2018

i was reading all this recently -

Withdrawal - coping techniques A - Z.

withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/page/coping-techniques-z

i have tired all these suggestions. Nothing really on there about withdrawal psychosis.

i spoke with Laura Delano for a while, she was very rude, then refused to speak to me.

Great that Laura Delano, Will Hall, Monica Cassini, & many others can get successfully medication free, the problem that i have with all the anti psychiatry / anti medication areas, is the denial of illness, & just what exactly was wrong with all these people to begin with? i have no doubt that millions of people are being prescribed psychiatric drugs that don't need them & could be being helped with better approaches, but that doesn't negate a small percentage of people suffering genuine / severe illness.

Will Hall also refuses to speak with me, so does Bonnie Burstow & others within the anti psychiatry movement. If these people want an open debate, then they should have one.

Psychiatry in part tries to address the severity issue, but all the anti / critical / alternative psychiatry areas don't, & i think it is a serious issue.

i studied Laura Delano's story a lot. i can't see what great mental health difficulty / symptoms she was suffering with to begin with? & this is where i have the problem with all this.

There are loads of stories like this, & i can see why there is the criticism of it all from psychiatry & others.

People that are not severely unwell, but having some difficulties, they often willingly get diagnosed & medicated, they feel ill from it all, decide to address things in a more healthy way, are able to stop medication & feel better & then outright reject the whole of psychiatry. But wait a minute, they weren't ill to begin with.

You also get this a lot with many others in the field - Szasz, Bonnie Burstow, Leonard Roy Frank, Philip Hickey, Joanne Greenberg, Judi Chamberlin, & countless other prominent anti-psychiatrists have never had any serious mental health problems. A lot of others, Carl Jung, John Nash, Catherine Penney, & many others, it's very likely that it was far milder symptoms / presentations of illness, & they all had proper help & support.

i can't get away from all this fact now. People that weren't ill / weren't severely unwell, telling those that were / are that they are Not - it's more insanity. Of course psychiatry has issues which need addressing, & the treatment of people needs to be far better. But the denial of illness, & seeking the abolition of psychiatry is Nuts, psychiatry needs reform.

November 12, 2018

1 hour ago, cpuusage said:

i have tired all these suggestions. Nothing really on there about withdrawal psychosis.

I had severe withdrawal psychosis and some of my coping skills are in my thread (linked in my signature). One such post is here:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17554-sheps-journey/?page=28&tab=comments#comment-308318

And here are some of the non-drug coping skills I used:

On 10/4/2017 at 7:52 PM, Shep said:

This is not "real". This is withdrawal.

Being quiet is the best way not to "get caught".

This is temporary and will pass.

The "visions" were very, very violent during acute but "softened" over time and gave way to beautiful glimpses of nature and mystical visions. So that will happen again.

Mooji speaks of The Observer state and of "being curious" and this seems like a good game plan.

Acceptance and under-reacting are key.

Have you read The Psychedelic Experience: A Manual Based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead? First, let me state that I am NOT advocating the use of psychedelics for people dealing with psychiatric drug withdrawal. However, the book is a good step-by-step guide to navigating altered experiences. I found it very helpful in how to become an Observer, not a participant, in navigating the altered state experience.

Keep in mind, it took months and then years of working with non-drug coping skills during my journey. Each encounter with visuals and altered states gave me an opportunity to practice.

I'm not saying you or anyone else should do come off drugs. I'm just pointing it out because you are looking for cases of this happening - people who were drugged with severe symptoms to begin with and were able to come off these drugs and navigate withdrawal.

Please note some people find some of the posts on my thread a bit triggering, but I came off a large cocktail of drugs cold turkey and rapid taper after 30 years of use, so it's unlikely it would be this bad with a proper taper.

1 hour ago, cpuusage said:

Will Hall also refuses to speak with me, so does Bonnie Burstow & others within the anti psychiatry movement. If these people want an open debate, then they should have one.

I doubt they have time, CPU. There are very few resources for people who want off their drugs and I'm sure their schedules are quite busy. Will Hall is both working and pursuing his PhD, so I'm sure his schedule is limited.

If you had cancer and wished to treat it holistically, you would seek out holistic doctors. You wouldn't go to allopathic doctors and try to convince them they're wrong.

There are by far more doctors for those who wish to take psychiatric drugs than for those who don't.

On 11/9/2018 at 5:13 PM, Altostrata said:

This sounds like anxiety rather than psychosis.

CPU, I hope you take what Alto said here to heart. I agree that what you described in this post here is more anxiety and fear of the future than it is psychosis.

And you have reason to be anxious. Many of us do because the world is at times extremely toxic, disorienting, and alienating. We have large amounts of income inequality, climate change that very well may end our species, and our collective identity has been shattered and we live very isolated, independent lives.

I worry more about people who aren't worried! They're in a complete state of denial, or what environmental activist Derrick Jensen refers to as being in a collective state of complex PTSD - we are so lost in our present state of over-consumption and inequality that we are numbing ourselves down because we don't know what else to do.

However, you have a home, you have family, you have food to eat, you have a computer and access to communicating with many, many people. I know you're struggling as a primary caretaker of sick relatives, but these types of difficult circumstances should not be conflated in any way with a mental illness. For someone to take care of others is a sure sign of strength and mental stability. Please give yourself credit for all of your strengths.

Please research and see if there are support groups for caretakers in your area. They may know of resources that could help you and your family.

1 hour ago, cpuusage said:

But the denial of illness, & seeking the abolition of psychiatry is Nuts, psychiatry needs reform.

Psychiatry has always played the role of the custodians of the old asylums. That's why they have created so many problems outside of the asylums. They have a profound identity crisis. They don't know what their role is outside of the asylum, and they don't know their own history, which is quite violent at times. They dispense drugs because that's their only tool in their role as doctors outside of the asylum setting.

I just finished reading civil rights attorney Bruce Ennis' book Prisoners of Psychiatry : Mental Patients, Psychiatrists, and the Law. It's about the experiences Ennis had working on behalf of people locked away in the asylums back in the 1960s as he took various cases to trial citing these patients' constitutional rights had been violated by psychiatry. As listed on the book jacket, "After several years as a clerk to Federal Judge William Miller, he joined the New York Civil Liberties Union in 1968 to direct its Civil Liberties and Mental Illness Litigation project. Since then, he has been the only lawyer in the United States to devote his full time to bringing test-case litigation on behalf of mental patients."

It's a really good look at how psychiatrists viewed their patients prior to the medical model. Like I just mentioned, psychiatry has always struggled with its own identity.

Just my take on it, but I believe that reform is needed on a much larger scale than just psychiatry. We need to get away from corporate-driven capitalism that drives consumerism and is destroying the planet. We need the corner store, not Amazon. We need communities coming together, not so impoverished that they can't afford to go out and meet up with friends or travel to see family. Or even to provide the basic needs for families as they struggle through illnesses, such as what your mum and brother are dealing with.

If we can accomplish that, a lot of other problems will simply fall away.

Have you read or heard of Dr. Joanna Macy? She's an environmental activist who speaks in this language. And there are lots of others in the environmental movement who do, as well. I find myself getting lost in those kinds of books and talks as a way of validating my own experience that we need a better way. They speak in a language that helps calm my own anxieties and fears.

I have yet to come across a psychiatrist who speaks in this language.

Just some thoughts, CPU. I do hope you find peace of mind in your journey.

November 12, 2018

Thanks Shep, i will have a look at that book.

i can't do it all Shep. i fought the system from day one. i stopped all medication 5 times. i have sought out everything i can in the way of alternatives, & have done everything that i can in regards to self help / personal responsibility. i am Not well & am increasingly not coping.

i agree with all this -

Our Agenda, not your agenda

We Demand …

http://mentalhealthresistance.org/2018/11/wedemand/

i have always & do agree with systemic alternatives - But it just won't happen.

Age 17 in part i had a very powerful vision of the End of the World, & i think it was true. Sooner or later i think there will be catastrophic systemic ecosystem / civilisation collapse.

i have till Wednesday to decide what to present to the GP / my Doc. My brother has written the Doc a letter about my continuing deterioration & level of unwellness.

This isn't living or functioning on any kind of more human level.

November 12, 2018

3 hours ago, Shep said:

Have you read or heard of Dr. Joanna Macy? She's an environmental activist who speaks in this language. And there are lots of others in the environmental movement who do, as well. I find myself getting lost in those kinds of books and talks as a way of validating my own experience that we need a better way. They speak in a language that helps calm my own anxieties and fears.

Yes i know all these areas / movements / people - none of it's changing the realities of this society / culture / system / 'civilisation'.

November 12, 2018

3 hours ago, Shep said:

Please research and see if there are support groups for caretakers in your area. They may know of resources that could help you and your family.

There is No help / support.

November 12, 2018

4 hours ago, Shep said:

I had severe withdrawal psychosis and some of my coping skills are in my thread (linked in my signature). One such post is here:

You have done well & it is great that you are successfully off medication. i'm just not convinced that all these experiences are as extreme / severe.

November 12, 2018

Hi cpu,

I'm working through the Jung and Quantum physics article from your Finding Meaning link.......now......or still.

I copied it off so I could give it a good read and absorption. It's only 20 pages or so......yet I often have to/want to look up some of the word definitions, and just kind of sit with some of it.

Thank you so much for the share/link.

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

cpuusage: history and experiences

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