WingIt: Supporting wife through Velafaxine withdrawal

[WingIt]

Hi,

 

Andrew here, my Wife of 6 months is currently going through withdrawal from 110mg of Effexor XR.

 

She was prescribed it by her GP in October last year for self diagnosed social anxiety. No psych dr involved. As a side effect she got insomnia, for this 25mg of seroquol.

All was well, we got married in Feb and things were going smoothly, shenwas doing well at work etc.

About easter she started complaining people were making comments about her, my family, workmates, her friends etc.

 

In May she had a very depressive episode (it was mothers day and broke down surrounding her being a foster child and not having the desired relationship with her foster family). We all supported her through this and she came right.

 

In June she went to the city with her friends and unfortunately took ecstacy. That night she a big falling out with her friends. Claiming they were picking on her, saying horrible things, trying to "break her down". Her friends version of events is nothing like this.

 

Then August she got sick, tooth infections, UTI infections etc, took antibiotics.

At this time she decided my parents were calling her names, being cruel etc I was there and these things wernt happening. Same with the people she works with.

 

I managed to get her to her GP which was difficult as she was adament there was nothing wrong with her. I raised my concerns and the GP said it cant be the effexor and referred us to Mental Health professionals.

Then my wife quit her job, refused to go to Psychologist. Eventually managed to get her there and he agreed with me. Effexor was causing this Paranoia etc.

She was due to see him again and he was going to start tapering her effexor, she cancelled the appointment. Then her prescription ran out on a Friday.

 

That was almost 4 weeks ago. She went cold turkey.

The first couple of days were ok, from Monday she was in bed, brain zaps, nausia, dizziness, aches and pains, light and sound sensitivity. The lot.

This got better over 10 days or so.

Then she was angry, completly over reacting, decided she wanted to divorce me because I had betrayed her somehow?

 

I got the mental health crisis team involved. The came and saw us and talked to her. Presribed seroquol 25mg morning and night. For sleep (still insomniac) and mood. She refused to take it.

They came and saw her again, this time her parents and me were there. This time prescribed her olanzapine 2.5mg, again for sleep and mood. She initially refused to take this.

Then that night she came and saw me about 1am saying she wanted to be put in the mental health ward at the hospital, she couldnt cope.

I rang the mental health crisis line and they talked her out of it.

She started taking the olanzapine the next day each night and finally sleeping. That will be 1 week ago tomorrow.

 

She still says she is moving out, she has collected all her stuff and is preparing it to be packed. She has $100 to her name as I had to cancel credit cards etc as she was spending a fortune online on books and music etc.

 

 

What do I do?

Edited October 3, 2016 by scallywag
tags added

[nz11]

Greetings Winglt (Andrew),

 

From one kiwi to another welcome to sa. Im am sorry you have been driven (like all of us ) to stumble upon this place due to this iatrogenic situation.

I am sorry you have had to experience this i think your wife made a great choice she is lucky to have your support and desire to help solve this.

Sadly your story (or her story) is all too common....its the drugs its not her.

 

She has been on effexor then for just less than a year. Did she take other psych drugs prior? You might like to do a drug signature.

Anger, mood swings, irrational behaviour, impulsivity and heaps of other stuff are all drug effects and wdl effects of these drugs.

You seem aware that this is wdl and you are right about that.

 

Is your wife able to come onto this site to request help? Unless she is able to see her symptoms as drug induced you may be in a difficult situation. Although her refusal/reluctance to take these drugs again suggests that she has a gut feeling they are harmful, good for her because they are.

 

This is just my opinion but one needs to think very carefully before requesting help from mental health teams or doctors or hospitals  the result is predictable ...drugs. The thing is not to panic if she panics and to stay calm and reassure her that she will be okay...easier said than done.

 

Two good books you could order from the library are Whitaker 'Anatomy of an epidemic' , Breggin 'Psychiatric drug withdrawal, oh yeah and Brogan, 'A mind of your own' .

 

There is a wealth of informative stuff on this site it is well worth your while spending time reading up and getting informed.

 

You might like to (in fact i urge you to do so ) at some point in time writing a letter of complaint to your MP and to CARM in Dunedin.

Check out the 'NZ members check in here' thread in the relationships topic.

 

There is currently another NZ member helping their spouse get through this. They too had been given venlafaxine/effexor.

 

A cold turkey is not the way to go to get off these drugs although she is now off it you could still check this out.

Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine)

 

I managed to get her to her GP which was difficult as she was adament there was nothing wrong with her. I raised my concerns and the GP said it cant be the effexor and referred us to Mental Health professionals.

Your doctor is incorrect.

Sadly this is the typical response doctors seem blind to this or they dont want to know about it and they then dodge resposibility and refer, this is happening daily in ths country, They  do not acknowledge the drugs withdrawal effects. And i suppose why would they because then they would have to admit to harming someone and that would break their hippocratic oath and an admission  of negligence.

The psychologist on the other hand was correct.

 

Here is a list of possible wdl symptoms you might like to peruse.

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist

 

With only a short exposure there is a good chance the wdl will be easier and recovery quicker than for those with many years of exposure. 

When she woke you at 1am what was the reason for wanting to go to a psych ward...did she feel suicidal?

If things are unbearable then it is recommended that a small dose reinstatement is considered.

It may be worthwhile checking out this link

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

You are not alone.

 

Those TV ads 'just ask your doctor if venlafaxine is right for you' have a lot to answer for and are a national disgrace if you ask me. Its legalized drug pushing. The word 'doctor' should be replaced by  the word 'dealer' imo

 

Hoping you can get your wife back real soon.

Full credit to you for seeking answers you have come to the right place.

 

nz11

 

(One of the moderators is a kiwi 'KarenB' and she is tapering off venlafaxine/effexor.)

[scallywag]

WingIt -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)
 
You and your wife have been through a rough time. These *$^% drugs! You have done a wonderful job supporting and taking care of your wife.
 
Agreeing with what our esteemed member nz11 said: I too am sorry that you are in the position that you are seeking the information at SA but am glad that you found us.
 
He (nz11) also gave you several helpful links about the medications.  There are two others that explain what is happening when we go off antidepressants and other psychiatric medications:
How your brain responds to psychiatric drugs - aka "Brain remodeling"
You tube video, 3 min 44 sec: Healing from antidepressants

 

You ask, "What do I do?" If you are asking

• about the medications, there is nothing you can do.  Your wife needs to see that there is a problem and want to deal with it.
• how to support your wife, first thing to do is to take especially good care of yourself. Make sure you have emotional support -- family, friends, co-workers, and/or counseling. It's difficult to take care of or support someone in crisis when you're not grounded yourself. Then in relating with your wife, let her know that if she wishes you're available and willing to assist her (if that's true).

 

You'll find others whose spouses are having (have had) bad experiences with these medications in this topic/thread: 

Support for spouses - a safe place to vent

 

I haven't read the thread very attentively or recently; you may find some useful information, insight or support in that topic.  There may be other relevant threads in the Relationships forum.

[WingIt]

Thanks for the replies guys.

 

-My wife had never taken anti depressants prior to this. Well her GP tried her on another for a couple days (cant remember what it was now) but it had bad side effects so she tried Effexor and it seemed to help.

 

-There is no way she would come on this site, as far as she is concerned there is nothing wrong with her. This is the real her. I dont understand etc etc she refused to take drugs because of this, she is fine, there is nothing wrong etc. Everyone can see she is not herself but she just says they are liers.

 

-I realise that mental health teams are just going to prescribe more drugs etc but Im at a loss as to what to do. She NEEDS help to get her to see there is something wrong. I cant do it myself, Im afraid she will suddenly leave and put herself at risk. I called the crisis line again last night as I had found she had been to a lawyer to get our marriage annulled (first time she has left the house in weeks I might add) so she will be getting another visit from the Drs today.

 

-She woke me up at 1am saying she couldnt cope, everyone had turned against her and she couldnt take it. She did say she wished she wasnt alive but had no energy to do anything about it. If someone were to kill her then great but she wasnt going to do it herself.

 

I know its the Effexor, I dont think the Psych Drs do yet, I am going to try talk to them further. I basically just want to ensure that if she gets bad then there is support there for her. I dont want to see her on any further drugs but she almost needs to be sedated for a while I think. Just to calm her down, let her rest, let her sleep etc I dont know if it will help but Im getting near the end of my teather.

 

 

-I am taking care of myself, and her as best I can. I keep busy, go to work, renovating the house, do the groceries, cook her dinner everynight so that she and I are eating right etc Im talking with friends and family and have support in that respect.

-I always tell her I love her and am here to help, she just replies "well I dont love you, its over, I dont need anyone" etc which is hard but I know its not her.

 

I just am waiting for the day she realises that this isnt her, she isnt thinking right. I know it will hit her hard but Im there to support her in anyway that I can.

I am calling the lawyer she saw yesterday to let them know she isnt in a healthy state of mind and shouldnt be making decisions about getting marriage annulled etc

 

Its frustrating, we are mid to late 20s, been together 5 years, own a house, had overseas trips, just got married, have/had good jobs and were thinking of starting a family. Then out of nowhere this happens!

Still im keeping positive that it will pass, I will get my wife back and things can go back to how there were eventually. Hopefully sooner rather than later!

[RachelE]

Your wife is right and wrong when she says there is nothing wrong with her. Right, because she's not crazy or genetically defective. Wrong because she is sick from various iatrogenic poisonings. Maybe if you explain it to her that way she might listen. Just a suggestion.

Nothing's wrong with you either. Your poor wife isn't herself. Good luck!

[WingIt]

Thanks. I know shes not mentally ill or anything (or I suspect it, her Birth mother has a history of mental health, some say BiPolar, some Scitzophrenia etc, maybe its the same thing and shes been misdiagnosed for the last 27 years? I dont know)

 

But she will not listen to me when I say she isnt not herself, she is not thinking right, she is making bad decisions. She thinks this is the real her. I cant even talk to her now about anything related to this as she just gets angry and yells and screams and tells me she hates me and shes leaving.

Im just waiting for the day that she suddenly realises whats happening, I know that wont be the end of it but it will help, she will see that maybe she needs some talk therapy, and that she doesnt need to take all these drastic life changing steps and that she will return to her normal self.

 

I think tonight I will buy some Fish Oil supplements and see if she will try taking them. Will they help? I dont know. Some say yes, others dont. Worth a shot. I love this woman and and not going to let her go without a fight.

[KarenB]

Hi WingIt,

 

Boy, I'm so sorry for what you two are going through.  Every time I read a story like this I feel so angry.  I can relate to a lot of what you are going through - I am now successfully tapering off effexor, but at the beginning of my taper it wasn't good at all.  My husband has cared for me, doing much of what you are doing for your wife - shopping, renovations etc - so I've seen what a load gets placed on a partner's shoulders.

 

I guess firstly, as the others have said above, your wife needs to somehow see what's really going on.  Is there someone like a sister or close friend that she trusts that you could speak with?  Perhaps she will hear the truth more readily from someone who has a little distance?  Or could you write her a letter with some of the basic info, and repeating how you love her?

 

I recognise too some of the symptoms she's experiencing.  Yelling, screaming, feeling everyone is against her.  Early waking.  Wanting to stop living...

This is effexor withdrawal in a nut-shell.  I did all that in my early tapering, before I got it sorted.  And when you're in it, it's so hard to see that it's the drugs. 

 

She woke me up at 1am saying she couldnt cope, everyone had turned against her and she couldnt take it. She did say she wished she wasnt alive but had no energy to do anything about it. If someone were to kill her then great but she wasnt going to do it herself.

 

 

WingIt, you might be in for the long-haul here, so building up support around yourself will be vital.  Keep reading, NZ11 suggested some great books.  Maybe talk to some close friends, fill them in on what you are dealing with.  Journal.  This stuff doesn't usually work itself out quickly.  HOWEVER it can work out.  You obviously love her dearly, and are willing to do what it takes.  You can get there, just be prepared for the winding road. 

 

From personal experience, I can say that a relationship that emerges out the other side can be stronger and closer than ever. 

 

Wishing you strength as you find your way through this,

Karen

[WingIt]

Hi Karen,

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Unfortunately my wife is a foster child, her foster brothers and sisters are much older than her so she isnt really close. Same goes for her foster parents. (I beleive the existing anxiety was caused by insecurities sorrounding this childhood trauma)

We have sat her down and explained what we are seeing to her, but nope, we are wrong she is right.

The psych drs have explained it to her, nope. Them wrong, her right.

 

I get home today and she is calmer, still angry but rational at least. She is dressed and out of the bedroom. But she has also packed up dishes and belongings into boxes in preperation of moving out.

 

I got some fish oil and magnesium for her and she says she will take those. Hopefully they can assist her in feeling a little better. Worth a try anyway

 

Edit/ I take that back, shes just exploded with rage over nothing and ranting on about me being self entitled. Oh well the calmness was nice while it lasted.

[WingIt]

Just thinking, at the same time my wife stopped effexor she started taking birth control pills again (I dont know why, but she did) she stopped taking them around 6 months ago so had left overs from that.

 

Could this be effecting her negativley during withdrawal?

 

Last night was ok, she still gets angry but she noticed that she gets angry at herself as well. I take this as a positive. She also said she didnt know if she was going to move out, but continued to pack her things anyway (im not overly concerned about this at the moment, I have a GPS tracker coming to fit to her car so that if she does run we can at least check that she is safe).

 

I also talked to one of her birth sisters, there is 3 sisters and at least 1 brother (different dad than my wife) and 2x of the sisters have had issues with anti depressants effecting them badly. Also suffer from anxiety and one has been diagnosed ADD. One of the brothers has dropped of the face of the planet, nobody knows where he is and apparently has mental health issues.

I am hopeful that once my wife is in a more accepting state of mind she would be interesting in talking to her sisters and seeing that she is not alone and finding out how they have coped as each is doing quite well for themselves.

[nz11]

You are doing a great supportive role. And i think its great that whatever hurtful things she says you arent taking it seriously knowing its the drug wdl. Being such a wonderful constant in her life im sure she will come to her senses soon.

I think the major player here is the effexor wdl, and the seroquel wdl ... but Brogan talks about birth control pills in her book 'A mind of your own' so you could check that out.

[WingIt]

Slowly getting there I hope. She txt me earlier asking if I could be there with her next appointment with the psychiatrist for support so thats positive. Means I can do my best to explain the theory of it being withdrawal as opposed to Bi-Polar and try limit them prescribing more drugs and to give her time to see how things go repairing themselves.

 

I will investigate further, was just a thought I had with regard to hormones effecting her as well as withdrawal.

I am wary of the Olanzapine the Drs have given her, a low dose of 2.5mg but another potentially harmful drug all the same. For now though its helping her sleep rather than be an insomniac, with a little more progress I think it will be worth while trying to taper off this to see how she goes.

 

Salmon for dinner tonight, extra Omega 3 for her, she is eating a lot more than when on efexor (lost 10kg, down from 60ish kg to 50kg, she is small however so not excessivly skinny) so thats a positive, help get her some energy back as at the moment she wants to be able to excercise but she gets tired very quickly.

Edited September 30, 2016 by scallywag
remove subscript formatting to increase font size

[nz11]

Thats great that she is happy for you to go to the pdoc with her.

 

It is well worth reading these two below threads before you go.

These people will not acknowledge withdrawal. In fact they are very dangerous people to talk to. They will rather than acknowledge witdrawal symptoms erroneously label and prescibe drugs. Please get a second opinion from sa if this is so.

Your concerns about olanzapine are well founded imo. Are you able to put in the sig when she started to take this antipsychotic.

Are you saying  the medical profession has already labelled her as bi-polar?

 

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?
 
What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

 

In a recent journal article 'Psychiatry as bullsh*t' 2016 author McLaren makes a great suggestion :

ask any psychiatrist [you] meet the following question:
What is the name of the model of mental disorder you use in your daily practice, your teaching,
and research?

 

I'm not saying you should record the consultation but  mobile phones are very versatile these days.

Sometimes these people will say one thing in the consultation and then covertly write another in the notes.

 

 

[WingIt]

She started the olanzapine just over 1 week ago, 2.5mg at night for sleep (will add it to sig) as she was a complete insomniac which was making the situation more difficult.

She hasnt been "diagnosed" as bipolar, have just had it mentioned that some of her symptoms point towards it. Also her birth mother was at one point diagnosed as being bipolar back in the early 90s or so, from what Ive been told.

 

Thanks for the links, I have briefly mentioned over the phone to one of the drs (there has been many recently as she refuses to go to appointments so on call drs end up coming to the house to see her, would prefer if it were just one constant but it is what it is for now) and they said it was unlikely to be withdrawal but said it was possible.

 

I am against any more drugs and will voice this, once things settle a little I will be pushing to taper the olanzapine. For now though it is a small dose and it helps her sleep. The less sleep she gets the more manic she becomes.

 

Tonight was pretty good, not perfect but maybe similar to a couple weeks ago. She was watching tv which she hasnt done for a while, made a comment about her old boss and the way he treated her then thought about it and reconsidered.

Lets call it a window for now. Will see what tomorrow brings

[nz11]

Breggin 'Toxic psychiatry' page 376 says

"Going to a psychiatrist has become one of the most dangerous actions a person can take".

 

I think the desire to want to exercise, the ability to not just want to watch tv but to be able to are both huge positives.

The desire to not meet with doctors is also a positive in my opinion.

 

Please don't fall for the bi-polar stuff.

Her symptoms point towards drug withdrawal and withdrawal symptoms off  psychotropic drugs cause one to tick every box in the (unvalidated) DSM for everything.

[scallywag]

WingIt

 

Please put your medication and withdrawal history in signature

 

A signature will help us help you help her. Whew that's a lot of helping.

 

The CNS (central nervous system) and the endocrine system (thyroid, pituitary, adrenals, ovaries/testes) are highly interconnect with each other and with the immune system. It is entirely possible that the BCP your wife started taking is affecting her emotional and cognitive well-being.

[WingIt]

Dont worry, I wont be falling for Bi-Polar at all, prior to effexor there had been no indication. It was taken for anxiety (she did have a depressive period about 7 years ago for a month or so but nothing since).

 

Medication info should already be in sig?

Its hard to say if BCP is related as it was started at exactly the same time efexor was stopped.

 

 

However things seem to be improving, she used the rowing machine for 5-10mins yesterday, I asked if she wanted to go out for a drive but she said she didnt want to be seen in public as everyone hates her. A few hours later though she asked if we could go out, ended up getting a picnic dinner and went to essentially the middle of nowhere (nice and scenic) and had dinner.

We had only been there about 6 weeks ago and she couldnt remember big parts of that day, however when we got there she remembered it.

 

Still very moody and quick to anger but seems to be leveling out. She also didnt take her Olanzapine last night (was to be for sleep) and did sleep naturally.

Supplements being taken are now Fish Oil and Magnesium (one tab morning and night) and she started Valerian at night the other day.

[scallywag]

Missing one dose of olanzapine isn't the greatest but as long as it's not the first day of a cold-turkey stop and she takes it again the next day she'll be okay.  It's tricky to find the balance in attitude about these medications -- understanding their negative effects but respectful of the need to taper them gradually.

[WingIt]

She wont be taking olanzapine again, she put on 4 kg in 8 days, always hungry, achey joints etc. Hopefully since she only took it for 9days or so and at the lowest possible dose there will be minimal effect.

 

Today not as good as the weekend, quite angry again and I think didnt get as much sleep last night. I imagine these are connected

[Skeeter]

Wingit,

 

I know that things seem to be calming down, but I saw something in your beginning post, and wanted to ask about it.  Your wife was already not quite herself when she took the ecstasy, but the next thing you note was that she had 2 infections in August.  After that she seemed to be much worse.  Is there any way to find out the name of the antibiotics she took for the 2 infections?  I wound not ask, except I do have good reason after learning something recently, it may be nothing, but I though I would ask.

 

I am sorry that today has not been as good.  I hope things turn around.  You are really a lovely person to support her through this!!

Skeeter

[Skeeter]

Ignore my first sentence above,  I wrote that before I read the last sentence of your post above, saying that today was not as good. Sorry about that!

[WingIt]

No worries. I will see if i can find the antibiotics name for you tonight.

It was ine initial infection with 1 week of antibiotics and things got bad, then it was ok then she got three infections back to back, as though her body couldnt cope with everything but her brain didn't realise. Ended up spending almost 3 weeks on antibiotics. And thats when things got worse and she quit her job etc

 

 

Hopefully just another wave yesurday and things may turn around later in the week. Time will tell

[Skeeter]

So as not to overwhelm you, please just put the name of the antibiotic, and the infection it was to treat (unless it is private info you do not wish to share). Doses and dates are not important right now. I believe thus far you named 2 infections.  Poor dear, having 3 in a row!

 

Hang in there!! We are all pulling for you!!

S

[WingIt]

Sorry I can find any of the anti biotic info now. Because we are recently married I dont nave access to her medical records either.

 

They were a generic infection anti biotic.

From memory:

-UTI early July, 1 week anti biotics. Gave bad side effects leaving her unwell enough to not be at work, low energy etc also the first time she quit work and became impulsive

-UTI first week august, same anti biotic same resuot

-tooth infection (old root canel) second week of august, same anti biotic same result

-UTI 3rd week august, managed a couple days at work, different anti biotic, same result

 

After the 3rd week in a row fighting infection she lost the poot, quit work etc and ended up off efexor and her I am.

Are the anti biotics linked to her downward spiral? I think so, they didnt cause it as things were already happending but it made things go from managable to out of control

 

 

Today seems ok, came home to find her dressed nicely, make up and hair done and on her laptop in the dining room. She has also reactivated her facebook profile. Not sure of her motives though.

 

Have found that she has applied for university next year in a city three hours away. Studying to be of all things a psychologist. Now shes no dummy but this is 6 years full time study with zero funds. This to me just shows how messed up her thought are.

Previously she had been dead keen to start a family, now shes wanting to commit to something that will take her until well into her 30s to complete.

Oh well, she will realise quickly that it is imposible

[nz11]

So sorry you are being put through this Wingit.

 

This to me just shows how messed up her thought are

Sadly it cant be seen at the time only with hindsight and insight...thats how it was for me anyway.

 

You are right though wld turns our brains into one big inconceivable impulsive irrational mess.

I can relate to how she is behaving.

 

Later

Wingit you could suggest she study psychology through the openpolytech then you can do it by correspondence and so dont need to leave home....that would save a 6 hr drive each day.

Just a thought.

Edited October 4, 2016 by ChessieCat
corrected link to openpolytech

[WingIt]

Her plan is/was to move to auckland, start a new life, study etc. I think when she rationalises a bit she will see/remember she loved her old career in Accounting

[nz11]

Dont worry when she sees the Auckland house prices and rents ...she will change her mind.

[Skeeter]

Okay, here is the scoop.  There is a class of antibiotics called Fluoroquinolones. Names of the most common of these antibiotics: ciprofloxacin (Cipro), levofloxacin (Levaquin/Quixin),  gatifloxacin (Tequin), moxifloxacin (Avelox), ofloxacin (Ocuflox/Floxin/Floxacin), and norfloxacin (Noroxin).   These meds have Flouride, a neurotoxin as a main ingredient in them! Not every who takes them has a problems, but many people do. The fact that is it very commonly prescribed for UTI's and her quick negative response to the abx (antibiotics), makes me think that there is a good possibility that this may have been the type she was prescribed.  There are support groups all over on the net because so many people worldwide have been affected.  There are many physical. Central Nervous System, including Psychiatric and neuro effects one can have as a result of FTS (Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome).  I will, of course, stay with the psychiatric effects for this post.  Here is a short list of the psychiatric issues that this class of abx can cause: personality changes, depression, psychosis, agitation, DP/DR, and many people have even been institutionalized as a result of these things, as your wife had asked.  Sadly there is no hard and fast cure, but magnesium, which she is already taking, has been shown to help improve things, so kudos there! The only cure for this is time, and for most people in a matter of weeks up to years seems to clear things up.  Her signs and symptoms seem to be on the less severe side, so I would hope for a faster recovery.  I think the fact that you are seeing little parts of her normal here and there is very encouraging, if she did indeed take this type of antibiotic.  I am sure that not all of this (if she took it) is the abx, she is also coming off of an antidepressant, and taking birth control pills, all which can have effects.

 

Now what is VERY important for you to do if you find out that this is indeed her issue, is to notify her, her doctors, and ny clinics she goes to that she has an allergy to this type of antibiotic.  The more you are exposed to this the worse things tend to get.  There are other antibiotics they can use.

 

This first link fascinates me, and seems to be the most pertinent.  It likens the action Fluoroquinolones have on the brain to the effects of ecstasy!  The abx doe not give the same physical sensation, but it seems to work in the brain in a similar fashion.  Took me 5 hours (and a total rewrite as I lost all of my info, to find this one link that likens one to the other (it was my last link).  The exact quote is, "More than 20 million prescriptions for fluoroquinolones are given out in the U.S. each year. If even only 1% of the people who take fluoroquinolones experience a psychiatric adverse-reaction, that’s still a lot of people whose minds aren’t their own, who are suffering from depression, anxiety, insomnia and worse, because of an antibiotic that is made with a chemical that has amphetamine/ecstasy-like effects" (emphasis added).  Since her first real issues showed up after taking ecstasy, from what I recall of her story, and then the antibiotics REALLY set things off the rest of the way, this makes sense (assuming the article is correct).  Link is below. The puzzle pieces seem to fit together, anyway...

https://floxiehope.com/2016/05/05/serious-psychiatric-reactions-from-fluoroquinolones/

 

Links regarding the psychiatric side effects in general, and personal anecdotes:

https://zedie.wordpress.com/2014/12/08/psychiatric-side-effects-of-fluoroquinolone-antibiotics-hormones-matter/

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/11/01/fluoroquinolone-antibiotic-side-effects.aspx  "Bitter Pill"

Specific issues that these meds can cause:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/10/20/fluoroquinolones-side-effects.aspx

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/popular-antibiotics-may-carry-serious-side-effects/?_r=1

A support site with information that matches the other information that is out there:

https://floxiehope.com/

A Letter to the US Senate, explains how these meds may cause DNA damage:

http://www.medicationsense.com/articles/2014/letter.php

 

Now this is not specific to your situation, but it is really important information for anyone that reads this, or even if she is takes this type if medication ever.  I hope she never takes this kind of antibiotic, even if it is not the one she took that seemed to set off her current symptoms. If anyone is taking benzodiazepines on a regular basis and they take an antibiotic from the Fluoroquinolone class, it will cause you to go into immediate benzodiazepine withdrawal.  These antibiotics use the same receptor sites, and stop the benzo's from working.  I have been in benzo withdrawal, and this can be very severe and painful. Just an FYI.

 

If there are any facts that I have not provided a link for and you would like more information, please ask.  I tried to cover it all.

 

***For a moderator, or anyone more knowledgeable than I***, Vitamin E seems to be suggested to help, but I cannot myself suggest that, as I do not know if that vitamin is an issue when coming off of an AD.  Would it be safe for her to take Vitamin E?  I am not suggesting, WIngit, that you take it just because it is in the literature, I just want to be sure it is safe to do so if you should choose to try it.

 

With rewriting this entire post from scratch, this took me a long time to do, so I do apologize or the wait.  I do not take the first information I come to when I research, so I am slow (I prefer to call it methodical...lol).  I do hope that yo find this information to be of at least some value to you!!

Skeeter

[WingIt]

Ahhh very interesting! Much appreciated!

 

I did raise this first with the GP (again who claimed that there could be no effect) and secondly with the Psychiatrist (who said that yes there can sometimes be an effect). I dont know if she is necessarily allergic as she has taken them before efexor with no issues. However I will bring this to the attention of the Drs.

The effects were not like ecstasy however, more as though withdrawal with body aches, light headed, dizzyness, nausia etc but they did pass quickly. The impulsive/dilusional thoughts however lingered.

 

She still has not had a blood test, says that even the thought of anything medical makes her feel sick (cant watch anything like that on the news etc), but I will continue to encourage it. I have friday off work so will attempt to take her along to the Dr if she will let me.

 

I see she is now quite active on linkedin, however is saying some quite strange things, nothing too out there but things that she herself wouldnt usually say. Very prophetic, deep comments which to me are out of character. Still at least there is improvement, I will cling to this.

 

 

I would also like to get her to a naturopath so that we can get some advice in that way, change of diet etc in order to assist her body where it needs help. This will have to wait until she is a bit more understanding of whats going on.

[Skeeter]

I need to explain better.  From what I understood from the article, no, the antibiotic does not FEEL like ecstasy, it just works on the same areas of the brain.  Remember how she acted to her friends after she took it?  The again how she acted towards your parents (which you witnessed) after she took the antibiotic- how those two events were somewhat similar, her reactions to others, not how she felt physically in any way.  The affects do not always start right away when they are related to taking this class of antibiotic (for others it is instant). it tends to worsen with every exposure IF this is a problem for her.  I do not think she has a literal allergy to this antibiotic, only if she took this class of them, and it DID cause her problems, that it should be written in her record   Some hospitals only have a place in the allergies area to put drug sensitivities, I am not suggesting that she had an anaphylactic/allergic reaction.  They can put under allergies just that she may have a sensitivity to Fluoroquinolones, I hope that is more clear.  I am just providing information, not saying this is part of her issue.

 

I hope this helps clear this up.

 

It sounds like she is evolving somehow, I hope it is for the better. I really hope she returns to the woman you know and love.  t least she is changing, this might be a sign for the better that things are changing, and not getting worse. I really hope for the best and am rooting for the two of you!

S.

[WingIt]

Ahh now I understand better. I will attempt to explain this to her Psych Dr when I speak to him next. He did acknowledge early on that it is possible for anti biotics to have an effect so I hope he understands.

It still doesnt "fix" her though but does help give an explanation as to what happened, I guess only time will heal. She is changing, in some ways better in some ways in a concerning way, it is positive to start seeing changes though rather than more deterioration.

 

Thanks for the support.

[KarenB]

Generally, it is a good idea to take vitamin E when taking fish oil (as many on this site are) - you can read here for more details. 

 

Individually though, always start low and increase slowly as there are always some who do not tolerate it. 

[WingIt]

Thanks I will pick some up tomorrow. She has been taking 1x fish oil tab and 1x magnesium moring and night with no ill effects.

 

Today not a good day, found her posts on linkedin and they are bizzare and dilusional. Thinks she is talking to someone who simply is not able to see what she is posting. Brought this up to her and she cant see an issue.

She also became very confrontational and bit and hit me, not hard and I probably antagonised her but another sign she isnt herself.

I did manage to give her a little massage and get a little cuddle when she was sleepy which was nice (she didnt care but I did), cooked her a healthy dinner of salmon and green beans.

Cant wait for another good day, its hard to keep positive some days

[nz11]

Wingit just wanted to say you are doing an amazing job.

[WingIt]

Thanks nz11, I wont lie this isnt easy. But my wife deserves support, even if she doesnt see it yet.

 

 

Is anyone able to tell me if this sounds typical of withdrawal?

-recently she has signed up to linkedin, why? I dont know.

-she is now posting bizzare comments all over then place on there, she thinks she is talking to the first psyciatrist we saw, once. Nice guy, understood where I was coming from, wanted to taper her off effexor.

-she thinks she is "in love" with this psychiatrist, that they are soul mates. She saw him once, I was there, he is married and not remotely interested in her.

 

I assume this is a phase that will pass, though I have evidense she has been thinking about him for almost a month

[Skeeter]

WingIt,

 

First I want to say I was so pleased to say that I am so glad you got some nice quiet intimate time with your wife, just massaging her and holding her had to feel really good. I a glad you got some time to feel good yourself. You needed that!!

 

I want to preface this with saying I am only offering information, not advice in any way on this subject. You really seem to be coping well under the stress of all of this far. You have wisely let close friends and family in on what is going on, and you are opening up to them. That is great! I want to remind you that you are the healthy one in this relationship right now, and monitoring yourself is very important. If you find yourself beginning to feel like you cannot cope, please, if you believe in it, find a therapist to talk to before you feel totally overwhelmed. It is very hard to find the right person to talk to (someone who can offer coping techniques, and someone who you like), when you are already at the breaking point. Self care comes first.

 

As per your request, I am going to study Effexor some more (I started when I first read your above message a couple of days ago), but I focused at the time on withdrawal causing psychiatric issues, vs issues caused while TAKING the med.I noticed that there are reports of psych issues while taking the med, so I will be looking into that. She went through what I would call typical withdrawal for just short of a 2 weeks, I believe. Remember how the GP dismissed you when you asked if Effexor could have caused her psych issues? Yeah, no doc should ever dismiss anything without researching it first! It is very rare, but there have been cases of psychosis and psych issues happening while patients are indeed taking Effexor- with no other obvious causes! No doctor should ever dismiss any side effect without doing research first!!! I am going to research Effexor, Seroquel, Ecstasy, and that class of Abx both alone and with each other both while taking and while in withdrawal (esp for the Seroquel and Effexor). I will research all meds/drugs in all combinations to see if I can find anything helpful. This is a big undertaking, but I will update you with any solid evidence I find. To keep my pain at a minimum, I will only be able to research about an hour at a time, but I will do it. Let me know if you think of anything else that you would like to have researched that I have not thought of yet. Or, if something comes you that you had forgotten, or did not think was important, please share. More info is no problem, the more information I have, the better off I am. I will look into the type of psych issues people run into while still taking Effexor first. Will let you know if I can find any specifics on that right away. I do not know what I will find if anything, but I am here to help!!

 

I am concerned about the violence she showed towards you. Has this happened again? Did she break the skin AT ALL when she bit you?

 

When is her next appointment with the psychiatrist? I do not know if your medical records there are integrated like they are in NZ like in the US, but if so, the Pdoc may be able to verify whether or not she took Fluoroquinolone antibiotics or not. If he does not know that this class of meds can cause severe issues for some people, ask him nicely to look into it, if you feel comfortable doing so.

 

When you are up to it, please give an update. If we are really lucky, she will start acting like herself soon.

 

Good Luck!

 

Skeeter

[Skeeter]

WIngIt,

It has actually been 8 hours since I wrote the above post(forgot to hit the button, I guess), and I hate to bother you with only one link, but the similarities in the case in the link below, and your wife are to close to be ignored!! In short, a man in his early 30's had social anxiety, they ended up putting him on generic Effexor. Shortly thereafter, he thought his co-workers were conspiring against him! Sound familiar!?!? They put him on Olanzapine first, and that caused the symptoms to go away, he ended up being out on escitalopram- and the symptoms did not return, he and stayed on that long term because he was still having social anxiety issues, and his issues stayed gone (I AM NOT suggesting any med for her!!!) Please read the Case Report and the Discussion parts. In the Discussion there is a report of a woman who had delusions of being in love with people... She was still taking the med when she had the problem, but with your wife saying she is in love with the psychiatrist, I cannot ignore the similarities here, either! It looks like lowering the dose may have solved that woman's issue. Your wife withdrew very quickly, possibly not allowing her brain time to register the change properly, so that may be part of the issue with the continued symptoms. I just had to show you this to give you some hope in as far as knowing what might be going on here!!!

Link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802382/

 

We might be on to something here!

 

Skeeter