Fuerza: has anyone experienced DR/DP caused by Effexor?

[fuerza]

Hey all! This is my first post here and I'm so glad I found this forum. I've been feeling desperate for months.

 

My question is about drug-induced derealization. I took the combo of Effexor + Valdoxan and only felt good for a month while being on them. In hindsight I almost seemed manic. Then, suddenly, I got very strong derealization that lasted for weeks. It lifted a bit for a few feeks and then came about again when I had a drink one night. 

 

I have now tapered off Effexor, I took my last pill about three weeks ago. Three days ago I also started tapering off Valdoxan. I take Oxazepam to cope with the symptoms.

 

I feel like I broke my brain for good. The only other time I've felt derealization was when I ate a hash brownie and clearly it was too much for me. I used to be a caring and fun person before going on the antidepressants. Right now I feel like I'm just completely empty inside. I do and feel things because I know I have to, but I seriously don't care about anything at all. When I do feel emotion, it's mostly fear or worry.

 

Has anyone else expierienced drug-induced DR? Did it go away when you started to withdraw from the drug? How do you cope with this?

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Hi fuerza and welcome to SA,

 

Thank you for completing your drug signature.  So that we are better able to answer your questions and offer suggestions, could you please provide details of how you tapered your Effexor.  Also, how are you tapering Valdoxan?

 

Drugs can cause side effects and going off the drugs too quickly can cause withdrawal symptoms.  SA recommends a harm reduction method of tapering 10% or less of the previous dose with a holding period of 3-4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.

 

Before you begin tapering what you need to know

 

glenmullen_symptoms_AS Appendix 1.pdf

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

What is Happening in Your Brain

 

Have a read of the above and you can ask questions here in your Intro/Update topic and journal your progress.

[NaturalBorn]

Hey all! This is my first post here and I'm so glad I found this forum. I've been feeling desperate for months.

 

My question is about drug-induced derealization. I took the combo of Effexor + Valdoxan and only felt good for a month while being on them. In hindsight I almost seemed manic. Then, suddenly, I got very strong derealization that lasted for weeks. It lifted a bit for a few feeks and then came about again when I had a drink one night. 

 

I have now tapered off Effexor, I took my last pill about three weeks ago. Three days ago I also started tapering off Valdoxan. I take Oxazepam to cope with the symptoms.

 

I feel like I broke my brain for good. The only other time I've felt derealization was when I ate a hash brownie and clearly it was too much for me. I used to be a caring and fun person before going on the antidepressants. Right now I feel like I'm just completely empty inside. I do and feel things because I know I have to, but I seriously don't care about anything at all. When I do feel emotion, it's mostly fear or worry.

 

Has anyone else expierienced drug-induced DR? Did it go away when you started to withdraw from the drug? How do you cope with this?

i expirienced severe depersonalization, during my effexor withdrawal, but while i was on it i was fine, it went away like during the first month, i don't remember having it now for a while... i also don't carry about anything anymore, i also relate to what you're saying about emotions, i feel like nothing matters anymore, and i only feel BAD emotions, like fear, despair, agony, anxiety, stress, constant and repetitive thinking, yeah man.... i feel your pain

[fuerza]

Hi fuerza and welcome to SA,

 

Thank you for completing your drug signature.  So that we are better able to answer your questions and offer suggestions, could you please provide details of how you tapered your Effexor.  Also, how are you tapering Valdoxan?

 

 

I tapered off Effexor quite hectically. I started by reducing the dosage by 10% of the original dosage each week. Then some weeks I reduced the dosage by 5% and on some by more. I chose the faster lane because I was afraid Effexor was causing the derealization and wanted to get off it as fast as possible.

 

I'm tapering off Valdoxan 25mg by just cutting the pill in half now and then quitting in maybe in two weeks time. I've read that Valdoxan isn't supposed to have any withdrawal symptoms, yet I feel like a total wreck. No severe physical symptoms that Effexor had, but my anxiety is through the roof and I can't sleep anymore.

[fuerza]

i expirienced severe depersonalization, during my effexor withdrawal, but while i was on it i was fine, it went away like during the first month, i don't remember having it now for a while... i also don't carry about anything anymore, i also relate to what you're saying about emotions, i feel like nothing matters anymore, and i only feel BAD emotions, like fear, despair, agony, anxiety, stress, constant and repetitive thinking, yeah man.... i feel your pain

 

Thanks for the reply! Did you ever feel like this before taking the drug? Also, going from 37,5mg to 300mg sounds pretty severe. I got crazy side effects at 75mg, I can't even imagine 300mg.

[NaturalBorn]

 

i expirienced severe depersonalization, during my effexor withdrawal, but while i was on it i was fine, it went away like during the first month, i don't remember having it now for a while... i also don't carry about anything anymore, i also relate to what you're saying about emotions, i feel like nothing matters anymore, and i only feel BAD emotions, like fear, despair, agony, anxiety, stress, constant and repetitive thinking, yeah man.... i feel your pain

 

Thanks for the reply! Did you ever feel like this before taking the drug? Also, going from 37,5mg to 300mg sounds pretty severe. I got crazy side effects at 75mg, I can't even imagine 300mg.

 

no, before taking this drug the only thing i felt was depression, maybe quita a severe depression, but nothing else really.... after cold turkey oh boy.... i thought i knew what suffering was about

[fuerza]

 

 

i expirienced severe depersonalization, during my effexor withdrawal, but while i was on it i was fine, it went away like during the first month, i don't remember having it now for a while... i also don't carry about anything anymore, i also relate to what you're saying about emotions, i feel like nothing matters anymore, and i only feel BAD emotions, like fear, despair, agony, anxiety, stress, constant and repetitive thinking, yeah man.... i feel your pain

 

Thanks for the reply! Did you ever feel like this before taking the drug? Also, going from 37,5mg to 300mg sounds pretty severe. I got crazy side effects at 75mg, I can't even imagine 300mg.

 

no, before taking this drug the only thing i felt was depression, maybe quita a severe depression, but nothing else really.... after cold turkey oh boy.... i thought i knew what suffering was about

 

 

I'm so sorry you have to feel like this. The doctors prescribing these drugs left and right really have no idea what kind of suffering they are putting people through. I hope you start feeling better soon! One thing I found a bit helpful is Silexan. It's a formula of lavender and lemon balm and it helps me sleep. 

[fuerza]

I feel like this hell is never going to end. Every morning is getting worse and worse. I wake up with my heart pounding and feeling very intense fear. I feel like no one has the power to help me. I don't even care about anyone anymore. Looking at myself in the mirror seems to trigger more anxiety as I feel I'm looking at a stranger.

[ChessieCat]

Please do not panic.  Many members panic when withdrawal symptoms hit very badly and then they take too high a dose of the drug or go on a different drug.

 

You might want to consider reinstating a small dose of Effexor.  If you do decide to reinstate, I suggest you post here that you want to do that and we can suggest a dose for you to try.  It's now been 3.5 weeks since you took Effexor.  When did you start tapering Effexor.  What was the last dose you were taking?  This information will help with deciding on the size of the dose to reinstate.

 

Here is the information for you to read:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine)

[fuerza]

Hey! Thanks for the encouraging words!

 

I started my taper in the middle of July 2016 and took my last dose of Effexor on September 11. I'm very wary of reinstating because Effexor gave me severe derealization. Right now my symptoms are very similar to the ones that I experienced when going on the drug. Very restless, yet afraid to go anywhere. Waking up with panic. No appetite at all. Problems with muscles: almost like muscle cramps, but without the pain. Derealisation and feeling like I want to crawl out of my skin.

 

Also, I foolishly started tapering off Valdoxan because I thought it didn't have any side effects. I desperately want to get off the drugs because prior to taking them I could handle my life quite well and was generally a happy person.

[ChessieCat]

That was a super fast taper.  What you are suffering is most probably withdrawal symptoms from having stopped the Effexor too quickly.  Your brain was used to getting Effexor and now all of a sudden it's not getting any.  A very small dose may be enough to bring the withdrawal symptoms to a bearable level without causing the side effects that you were getting.  Please read the reinstatement topic so that you have the information.  Reinstatements work best if done at the first sign of withdrawal symptoms.

 

QUESTION:  What was the last dose you were taking?

[fuerza]

That was a super fast taper.  What you are suffering is most probably withdrawal symptoms from having stopped the Effexor too quickly.  Your brain was used to getting Effexor and now all of a sudden it's not getting any.  A very small dose may be enough to bring the withdrawal symptoms to a bearable level without causing the side effects that you were getting.  Please read the reinstatement topic so that you have the information.  Reinstatements work best if done at the first sign of withdrawal symptoms.

 

QUESTION:  What was the last dose you were taking?

 

I'll read the topic when I get back home. The last dose I took was 5 beads out of a capsule of 240. The capsule was 75mg, so the dose was about 1,5mg.

[ChessieCat]

I can understand your reluctance to reinstate.  Many members feel the same way.  You could try 1, 2 or 3 beads.

 

It takes 4 days for the drug to get to steady state in the blood and a few more for it to register in the brain.

 

If you do reinstate, keep daily notes of your symptoms on paper, what improves, what stays the same and what worsens.  This will give us an idea of whether reinstatement is working.  If your symptoms improve a little bit but were still bad, after about a week or 10 days you could then increase by taking an additional bead.  Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

[fuerza]

I'll think about reinstating. I think I found a partial cause for the crazy anxiety this morning. I ate licorice candy last night. Pretty ironic, as I actually hate licorice and just picked what I thought was the healthiest option. I have noticed that my anxiety is a lot worse when I wake up, I speculate there may be a cortisol overload. And as I found out today, licorice increases cortisol.

[NaturalBorn]

I feel like this hell is never going to end. Every morning is getting worse and worse. I wake up with my heart pounding and feeling very intense fear. I feel like no one has the power to help me. I don't even care about anyone anymore. Looking at myself in the mirror seems to trigger more anxiety as I feel I'm looking at a stranger.

i'm sorry for you too, just keep in mind that everything is temporary, yeah this is coming from a really pessimist dude who dreams about dying everyday, but in the end I KNOW this will pass... just know you are not alone in this... this is the most extreme expirience someone could go throught in their life... but try looking at this way once it's over everything should be a piece of cake... keep putting time behind you and try making yourself busy i just know this will pass... nothing lasts forever

[fuerza]

First night terrors today. Managed to get back to sleep, but this is starting to look a lot like the time I went on these drugs. I was completely haywire for like 3 weeks. After that I very slowly began to feel better. Only thing I can remember is the shaking and not being able to sleep and my mother taking me to a psychiatric clinic one morning.

 

My positive side tells me that I've come full circle, but the pessimistic side is telling me that I've only begun my real torture.

[tntd]

Hi Fuerza,

 

I'm sorry to hear you are having night terrors. I don't know if you have read this thread but I found it very helpful for night terrors and early morning waking with fear/terror/anxiety surges.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/33-waking-with-panic-or-anxiety-managing-cortisol-spikes/?hl=%2Bwaking+%2Bpanic

 

I have used some of the suggestions and have found them helpful. 

 

I've also found a lot on this thread, which contains a lot of threads, very helpful

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/8-symptoms-and-self-care/

 

I do find though that when the emotions are extreme that a lot of the coping skills don't work as well. As they always say, your milage may vary. For some people these coping skills have worked wonders. Maybe you will be one of them.

 

Hope you are having a better day,

 

Sending hugs and healing your way.

 

 

 

I hope that you are feeling better.

[fuerza]

Hi Fuerza,

 

I'm sorry to hear you are having night terrors. I don't know if you have read this thread but I found it very helpful for night terrors and early morning waking with fear/terror/anxiety surges.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/33-waking-with-panic-or-anxiety-managing-cortisol-spikes/?hl=%2Bwaking+%2Bpanic

 

I have used some of the suggestions and have found them helpful. 

 

I've also found a lot on this thread, which contains a lot of threads, very helpful

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/8-symptoms-and-self-care/

 

I do find though that when the emotions are extreme that a lot of the coping skills don't work as well. As they always say, your milage may vary. For some people these coping skills have worked wonders. Maybe you will be one of them.

 

Hope you are having a better day,

 

Sending hugs and healing your way.

 

 

 

I hope that you are feeling better.

 

 

Hey! I've gone through these threads and actually found some of the information very helpful. I've been a bit better in the night terror apartment in the last few days. *knock on wood* I'm trying to learn how to calm myself down. I think the ability to take control of my own situation is the most encouraging thing I could do right now. Of course, there are days where nothing really works, that's just how it is. I try to embrace the days when I feel a bit better and listen to music. Yesterday I listened to an artist who always manages to make me cry and I shed a few tears. It felt good.

[rapunzel2]

hello fellow estonian

 

I find your tapering of effexor EXTREMELY fast. you tapered down from AD in 2 months. it has taken me 3,5 years and probably 1 more year to taper down from my AD without driving myself crazy and ending up in withdrawal syndrome. I would strongly advise you to consider reinstatement, because the worst withdrawal problems may come with the time lag of several months. and after reinstatement I would hold still at least 3 months, maybe half a year.. depending on how your symptoms are.

 

but probably moderators have more exact advice for you. 

[fuerza]

Tere! I'm afraid on reinstating because Venlafaxine XR gave me derealisation and actually made my condition so much worse. So far I've felt a very gradual relief from the symptoms.

[NaturalBorn]

in my opinion, i wouldn't reinstate ir i were you. especially if you can see some progress...

[Edie]

I would also not reinstate if i where you.. I did it and regret it.

[rapunzel2]

Tere! I'm afraid on reinstating because Venlafaxine XR gave me derealisation and actually made my condition so much worse. So far I've felt a very gradual relief from the symptoms.

 

 

in my case, I have got withdrawal syndrome always with a delay and the worst has come around 4-5months. and it has been far worse than any side effects I can imagine. that's why I'm worried about you. people usually imagine withdrawal symptoms are something that come immediately and they don't take into account the possibility of such lag time. 

 

during last couple of years I have also been in a situation where side effects were intolerable, but I didn't dare to withdraw quickly because I know how bad this delayed withdrawal syndrome can get. carefully and slowly withdrawing, I have managed to avoid such crashing and I've gradually regained my health and side effects have decreaed as I've reached smaller doses.

[fuerza]

 

Tere! I'm afraid on reinstating because Venlafaxine XR gave me derealisation and actually made my condition so much worse. So far I've felt a very gradual relief from the symptoms.

 

 

in my case, I have got withdrawal syndrome always with a delay and the worst has come around 4-5months. and it has been far worse than any side effects I can imagine. that's why I'm worried about you. people usually imagine withdrawal symptoms are something that come immediately and they don't take into account the possibility of such lag time. 

 

during last couple of years I have also been in a situation where side effects were intolerable, but I didn't dare to withdraw quickly because I know how bad this delayed withdrawal syndrome can get. carefully and slowly withdrawing, I have managed to avoid such crashing and I've gradually regained my health and side effects have decreaed as I've reached smaller doses.

 

 

What were your immediate withdeawal symptoms and which ones came later?

[Edie]

Once when I withdraw from venlafaxine I got 3 months later the following symptoms: breathing difficulties, depression, derealization, nightmares, brain zaps, anxiety, panic attacks.. BUT then again I got the same things now when I was ON venlafaxine and couldn't tolerate it anymore. And as you told me you actually got very sick while you were on venlafaxine.

[fuerza]

I'm quite worried about other tapers too. I'm currently on Valdoxan and Oxazepam. I want to very slowly start tapering Valdoxan because I'm afraid I might get seriously hooked on Oxazepam which I plan to taper last. I started by cutting the Valdoxan in half in September and I the effects weren't half as bad as with Effexor. Now I plan to continue my taper with the 10% principle.

 

Also, it seems that my symptoms get waaayyyyy worse before my period starts and during ovulation. I don't know if this has anything to do with the fact that I took Yasminelle birth control last year for one month. I stopped because my hair started falling out, but after that I noticed that I feel 10x worse before my period.

[KarenB]

Hormones and periods do affect how we feel during w/d.  There's good discussion you can join in with here:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8142-pms-and-menstrual-cycle-issues-during-withdrawal/  Birth control can also have an effect:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2011-hormone-pills-birth-control-causing-relapse/

[fuerza]

Hormones and periods do affect how we feel during w/d.  There's good discussion you can join in with here:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8142-pms-and-menstrual-cycle-issues-during-withdrawal/  Birth control can also have an effect:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2011-hormone-pills-birth-control-causing-relapse/

 

I've read through the threads and have heard plenty of experiences from friends to know that I should never go on birth control willy-nilly. Also, my mother told me that she had a really bad reaction to hormonal IUD, so I think it's best for me to steer clear of anything that might mess up my hormonal balance. Even my psychiatrist said that he wouldn't recommend hormonal contraceptives to anyone because he's seen so many patients who've acquired serious mental side effects from taking them.

[fuerza]

Also, I decided to hold my Valdoxan dose for a while. I should already know from my previous experience that whenever I get a bad wave, I start going crazy with the tapers and regret it afterwards. No need to make the same mistake again.

 

Also, I'm not going to reinstate Effexor either, that drug messed me up bad even when I was on a stable dose. My psychiatrist also said that SSRIs and SNRIs are obviously a big no-no for me because I experienced very extreme side effects (both mental and physical) when I went on the lowest dosage. He also told me something about a gene that controls the metabolisation of psychiatric drugs. Basically, the gene allows some people to metabolise the ADs better, which means that one person's 37,5mg could be another person's 150mg.

[fuerza]

Waiting for a window so badly. I've slowly been starting to lose sleep. I still get 7-8 hours (which I'm very thankful for), but I wake up with terror many times during the night and also have nightmares about losing my mind. I also get waves of derealisation completely out of nowhere and feel like I've gone insane every time. I know there's no use in dwelling on these feelings, but controlling them and not giving into them feels like I'm walking on the edge of a cliff. If I slip even once, I'm gonna fall into a deep dark pit.

[fuerza]

I did a very fast Effexor taper and took my last beads in September. I've had WD symptoms the whole time, but in the past week I've felt my symptoms slowly worsening and I feel very similar to what I felt like when I was put on the drugs.

 

I started taking Escitalopram last November and experienced extreme side effects, such as increased anxiety and panic attacks, shaking, akathisia, insomnia and paranoia. I was switched to Effexor about a month later. Still experienced panic attacks, slowly got better, then had a good month (in hindsight that actually might have been hypomania) and then went straight into derealisation hell. 

 

When I started taking the meds my doctor told me that this is normal and people usually feel their symptoms worsening during the first few weeks. Now I read the thread about immediate bad reactions to AD medication and how people still recover from taking the antidepressants for a week or a few days. I've seriously lost all hope. 

 

I don't mean to moan and whine, but has anyone else experienced severe reactions when they first went on the drugs? How has your recovery been?

[reachingforthestars]

Hi Fuerza!

 

I think it is possible that you had serotonin syndrome(serotonin toxicity). There are different levels of serotonin toxicity.

 

I found this, I didn't read through hole text but maybe this would give you some hope: 

 

 

This is from another thread http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1152-fibromyalgia-caused-by-serotonin-syndrome/ : "Outcomes: The patient was referred to a neurologist, who diagnosed serotonin syndrome related to the use of citalopram. The patient was weaned off citalopram and made a successful recovery, with scores on the Oswestry Disability Index decreasing from 70% to 28% at discharge from the physical therapy treatment and to 0% at the 6-month follow-up. The patient has since returned to her prior activity level, which includes skiing, motorcycle riding, and working at her consulting firm. "

 

Take care!

[fuerza]

I'm also wondering about benzos. I've always been on the same dosage of Oxazepam, but right now I feel it's not working anymore. I will try to pull through with my current dosage. However, in the past I've experienced periods when I was completely non-functional. Could not sleep, could not stay still, could not eat. If the symptoms do get completely unbearable, I will probably try to up the benzos a little bit. Is it wiser to stay with the current benzo and just up the dosage or to switch benzos? Right now I'm taking 10mg in the morning, 5mg at about 5PM and 5mg before bedtime.

[fuerza]

Thank you for the reply! I still don't quite understand the difference between full-blown serotonin syndrome and the so-called side effects of first starting the medication. I must say, prior to starting them I was already in a very agitated state of mind. I had already had experienced my first panic attacks. I had serious problems with my health (which triggered the panic attacks) and was also very worried about keeping my job.

[scallywag]

Fuerza, it is unlikely that you experienced serotonin syndrome. Lexapro is a highly-activating SSRI and for some people it can aggravate anxiety and panic. Serotonin syndrome symptoms tend to be (but aren't limited to) those of your body trying to rid itself of an unwanted interloper -- raised body temperature, tremor/shaking/seizure, agitation, diarrhea.

The best way to discern the difference between withdrawal symptoms and side effects is to log the timing of your symptoms and your doses.

I had suicidal ideation start and intensify rapidly when I took Zoloft in 2001/2 (?), which I stopped after a few days and switched to Effexor.

[dowdaller]

I had a terrible reaction to lexapro too. Felt very anxious and like I was loseing my.mind and ended up gettin hooked on xanax. I am doing okay 14 months out. Some windows more waves but better than when I was on the crap. Hope you catch a break soon.