Folic acid, folate, L-methylfolate, and Deplin (vitamin B9)

[SquirrellyGirl]

downtongirl, I am still trying to figure it all out.  I had a report run by Dr. Amy Yasko that is free, so if you downloaded your raw data (23andme) then you can do this and it will spit out a report with explanations.  Of course, she has a whole line of supplements that are recommended depending on which snps you have, but that is secondary to the information provided.  

 

This is what Dr. Amy's report says about COMT:

A primary function of this gene is to help to break down dopamine. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter that is recognized for its role in attention, language, as well as reward seeking behavior. Dopamine helps to cause pleasurable feelings that aid in reinforcing positive behaviors and motivating individuals to function in certain reward gaining activities. COMT is also involved in the breakdown of another neurotransmitter, norepinephrine. The balance between norepinephrine levels and dopamine levels has been implicated in ADD/ADHD; in addition, dopamine levels are important in conditions such as Parkinson’s disease. COMT is also involved in the proper processing of estrogen in the body. Sensitivity to pain has recently been found to be correlated with COMT activity, such that COMT + + individuals may be more sensitive to pain. Methyl B12 may be tolerated better by those with results of - - as compared to those who are ++ or +-. 

 

Nutrihacker also will spit out a free detox/methylation report and that is where my COMT snps lead to the recommendation to avoid mehtyl donors, so it complicates how to supplement.  My understanding is that B12 should be taken in the form of adenosyl and/or hydroxy B12.  Not clear on how to supplement folate since the methylated version is problematic. That's where I'm still learning.

 

If you have your raw data, here's the links for those reports:

 

https://www.nutrahacker.com/

https://www.knowyourgenetics.com

 

SG

[JanCarol]

New Article from Emily Deans, MD (Evolutionary Psychiatry), on Methylfolate, and a bit about MTHFR:

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201607/methylfolate-and-resistant-depression

 

(keep in mind, she is pro-drugging, but more "judicious" than most, if there is such a thing!)

 Up to 70% of folks with depressive illness have this genetic inefficiency of folate metabolism, at least in a European population (1). The brain could potentially work better with methylfolate supplements, and medicines (such as antidepressants) that need folate in the brain to work could potentially be more effective.

 

and

Both of these findings are a bit surprising. First off, 15 mg is a massive dose of folate. It’s over 35 times the recommended daily allowance. I asked a prominent psychiatry researcher why the makers of methylfolate supplements settled on 15 mg even before a lot of the data came in supporting the higher dose, and he told me that earlier studies of folate in humans of up to 50 mg a day seemed to be safe at least in the short term, and higher doses such 7.5 mg and 15 mg would maximize the amount that goes through the blood brain barrier. Folates are water-soluable vitamins, so it is generally thought that in the worst case, if you have too much methylfolate, you will end up with expensively supplemented urine.

• Methylfolate can be helpful, but not generally doses below 15 mg
• Methylfolate seems to be especially helpful in obese patients.

 

CONCERNS:

 There are three major safety concerns about high dose folate supplementation. First, as folate helps cells to divide, there’s some worry that massive doses of folate can increase risk of colon cancer, which is controversial.

 

Second, folic acid competes with methylfolate at folate receptors, so a high amount of folic acid floating around in the blood stream may *reduce* the amount of methylfolate in the brain 

 

Third, both folate and B12 deficiency cause the same type of megaloblastic anemia, and folic acid supplementation can effectively “mask” this anemia by shrinking the blood cells back to normal and lead to untreated B12 deficiency. 

 

She goes on (you'll have to read the article) to discuss what she thinks about genetic testing and MTHFR variations, and how it is oversimplified as a tool for psychiatrists - her main statement is that genetic testing is not a "rosetta stone," but instead a somewhat  limited tool.

 

She ends with a footnote cautioning that Walsh practitioners, who warn against folate, are not "mainstream."

 

Here is her other article on folate:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201606/your-brain-folate

[Altostrata]

About 40% of the general population has an MTHFR variation. Evolution would not have made this so common if it was deleterious.

 

I have never seen any reliable statistics about how many people with "depression" (an ambiguous term) have MTHFR variations.

 

...he told me that earlier studies of folate in humans of up to 50 mg a day seemed to be safe at least in the short term, and higher doses such 7.5 mg and 15 mg would maximize the amount that goes through the blood brain barrier.

 

 

That sounds like a wild guess. How does the researcher know how much gets through the blood-brain barrier? I'm surprised that Emily Dean didn't probe further into this.

 

I'm still very skeptical about the meaningfulness of identifying MTHFR variations, except in very limited situations (such as repeated miscarriages, which obstetricians routinely treat with ordinary folate supplements).

 

If you're worried about your MTHFR status, which means you're worried about your B vitamin status, eat lots of greens and, if needed, take a sublingual B12 supplement.

[downtongirl]

downtongirl, I am still trying to figure it all out.  I had a report run by Dr. Amy Yasko that is free, so if you downloaded your raw data (23andme) then you can do this and it will spit out a report with explanations.  Of course, she has a whole line of supplements that are recommended depending on which snps you have, but that is secondary to the information provided.  

 

This is what Dr. Amy's report says about COMT:

A primary function of this gene is to help to break down dopamine. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter that is recognized for its role in attention, language, as well as reward seeking behavior. Dopamine helps to cause pleasurable feelings that aid in reinforcing positive behaviors and motivating individuals to function in certain reward gaining activities. COMT is also involved in the breakdown of another neurotransmitter, norepinephrine. The balance between norepinephrine levels and dopamine levels has been implicated in ADD/ADHD; in addition, dopamine levels are important in conditions such as Parkinson’s disease. COMT is also involved in the proper processing of estrogen in the body. Sensitivity to pain has recently been found to be correlated with COMT activity, such that COMT + + individuals may be more sensitive to pain. Methyl B12 may be tolerated better by those with results of - - as compared to those who are ++ or +-. 

 

Nutrihacker also will spit out a free detox/methylation report and that is where my COMT snps lead to the recommendation to avoid mehtyl donors, so it complicates how to supplement.  My understanding is that B12 should be taken in the form of adenosyl and/or hydroxy B12.  Not clear on how to supplement folate since the methylated version is problematic. That's where I'm still learning.

 

If you have your raw data, here's the links for those reports:

 

https://www.nutrahacker.com/

https://www.knowyourgenetics.com

 

SG

 

Hello SquirellyGirl....thanks for your reply....I was reading the recommendations that was given me with my printed report from the lab that did my test and they suggest treating my COMT +/- mutation with the following supplements....

 

B6

B12

Folate....I already know I need to take l-methylfoalte because I am homozygous for MTHFR

Magnesium....already take this

 and....

Methionine to support SamE and to prevent elevated levels of homocysteine.  

 

I have tried B6 before and did not have bad results it was actually a little calming

I have methyl b12 and am willing to try that again

I have been reading information on Methionine and am a little confused I am not sure if this is the same thing as SamE and I have read on here that SamE can be very stimulating which is not what I think I need so I was wondering if you have any knowledge or experience with Methionine?

 

My report also suggests that I take glutathione as I a completely ABSENT in this area so they suggest I supplement with glutathione which I under stand to e a heavy antioxidant.

 

Thanks for reading this and for your reply!

[Sheri755]

 

downtongirl, I am still trying to figure it all out. I had a report run by Dr. Amy Yasko that is free, so if you downloaded your raw data (23andme) then you can do this and it will spit out a report with explanations. Of course, she has a whole line of supplements that are recommended depending on which snps you have, but that is secondary to the information provided.

 

This is what Dr. Amy's report says about COMT:

A primary function of this gene is to help to break down dopamine. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter that is recognized for its role in attention, language, as well as reward seeking behavior. Dopamine helps to cause pleasurable feelings that aid in reinforcing positive behaviors and motivating individuals to function in certain reward gaining activities. COMT is also involved in the breakdown of another neurotransmitter, norepinephrine. The balance between norepinephrine levels and dopamine levels has been implicated in ADD/ADHD; in addition, dopamine levels are important in conditions such as Parkinson’s disease. COMT is also involved in the proper processing of estrogen in the body. Sensitivity to pain has recently been found to be correlated with COMT activity, such that COMT + + individuals may be more sensitive to pain. Methyl B12 may be tolerated better by those with results of - - as compared to those who are ++ or +-.

 

Nutrihacker also will spit out a free detox/methylation report and that is where my COMT snps lead to the recommendation to avoid mehtyl donors, so it complicates how to supplement. My understanding is that B12 should be taken in the form of adenosyl and/or hydroxy B12. Not clear on how to supplement folate since the methylated version is problematic. That's where I'm still learning.

 

If you have your raw data, here's the links for those reports:

 

https://www.nutrahacker.com/

https://www.knowyourgenetics.com

 

SG

Hello SquirellyGirl....thanks for your reply....I was reading the recommendations that was given me with my printed report from the lab that did my test and they suggest treating my COMT +/- mutation with the following supplements....

 

B6

B12

Folate....I already know I need to take l-methylfoalte because I am homozygous for MTHFR

Magnesium....already take this

and....

Methionine to support SamE and to prevent elevated levels of homocysteine.

 

I have tried B6 before and did not have bad results it was actually a little calming

I have methyl b12 and am willing to try that again

I have been reading information on Methionine and am a little confused I am not sure if this is the same thing as SamE and I have read on here that SamE can be very stimulating which is not what I think I need so I was wondering if you have any knowledge or experience with Methionine?

 

My report also suggests that I take glutathione as I a completely ABSENT in this area so they suggest I supplement with glutathione which I under stand to e a heavy antioxidant.

 

Thanks for reading this and for your reply!

[Sheri755]

I would love to know more about this as I was just diagnosed to have the MTHFR mutation. So many opinions. I don't know what to do.

[JanCarol]

The easiest thing is to listen to Alto:

 

About 40% of the general population has an MTHFR variation. Evolution would not have made this so common if it was deleterious.

and

If you're worried about your MTHFR status, which means you're worried about your B vitamin status, eat lots of greens and, if needed, take a sublingual B12 supplement.

 

I would add organ meats to that, if you want to get your B12 naturally.  I can stand chicken livers every now and then, but find beef liver to be "too strong."

[JanCarol]

From Consumer Labs:

 

A study in Canada (which requires folic acid fortification of certain grain based products)...found that 10-18% of supplement users exceeded the UL for folate, and 20-52% had elevated folate levels in their blood cells.  The report stressed the need for people to be aware of the potential risks of folate overconsumption.  Excluding supplements, average dietary folate intake was about 450 mcg.  Adult daily requirement is 400 mcg. (Jan note:  people on grain free diets might get less)

Keep in mind that synthetic forms of folate, such as folic acid and fortified foods, provide 167% as much abstorbable folate as folate naturally found in foods.  This means if you are short 100 mcg of folate in your diet, you can satisfy that with just 60 mcg of folic acid from a supplement.  If a label says, "Folic Acid 400 mcg, 100% DV" it actually provides the equivalent of 667 mcg of natural folate, and 167% of the current DV.

[Sheri755]

From Consumer Labs:

 

 

A study in Canada (which requires folic acid fortification of certain grain based products)...found that 10-18% of supplement users exceeded the UL for folate, and 20-52% had elevated folate levels in their blood cells.  The report stressed the need for people to be aware of the potential risks of folate overconsumption.  Excluding supplements, average dietary folate intake was about 450 mcg.  Adult daily requirement is 400 mcg. (Jan note:  people on grain free diets might get less)

Keep in mind that synthetic forms of folate, such as folic acid and fortified foods, provide 167% as much abstorbable folate as folate naturally found in foods.  This means if you are short 100 mcg of folate in your diet, you can satisfy that with just 60 mcg of folic acid from a supplement.  If a label says, "Folic Acid 400 mcg, 100% DV" it actually provides the equivalent of 667 mg of natural folate, and 167% of the current DV.

 

Great info, Jan!!

 

I am on a grain free diet but will not supplement with anything. Only more green, leafy vegetables.

 

Are they better absorbed for me if steamed? Just curious as I already eat 3-4 large spinach, kale and romaine salads a week. I'll have hubby get free range, local chicken livers. Some nausea has returned since this nose dive but I will try. I even drink a large cold pressed, organic green juice nearly every day.

[peng]

" If a label says, "Folic Acid 400 mcg, 100% DV" it actually provides the equivalent of 667 mg of natural folate, and 167% of the current DV."

 

 JanCarol, I take it you mean "667mcg of natural folate....."?

 

My GP put me on 5gm Folic Acid per day in June.  I felt much better within a few days.  What are the potential risks of folate overconsumption, do you know?

 

Sincere best wishes

Edited September 21, 2016 by JanCarol
COMMENT: Thanks Peng, typo fixed!

[AliG]

If you eat a whole food diet , there are many sources of folate in their natural form. It's hard to over consume this way. Keep it simple and organic.

 

http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/folic-acid-foods/

[peng]

Thanks for that link AliG. 

 

I have never eaten so much spinach and fruit in my life as in last few months.

 

My problem is likely to be that I take, and have taken for decades, the PPI Omeprazole.  Mostly only 10mg, but if I cut down or stop I do get an upset stomach.

 

Even our National Health Service (NHS) are now warning that older patients need to try and stop this medication as it adversely affects the absorption of B group vitamins.

Taking 8mg at the moment

 

Best wishes & stay well.

[AliG]

Peng.  If you can taper off it, ( PPI ) then you can eventually heal. They only " mask " symptoms in the long run. A " whole " chemical free diet is "key" to the process. Organic fruits and vegetables - blended / juiced / whole.   

[Sheri755]

Peng.  If you can taper off it, ( PPI ) then you can eventually heal. They only " mask " symptoms in the long run. A " whole " chemical free diet is "key" to the process. Organic fruits and vegetables - blended / juiced / whole. 

 

AIG, I read that if we have the MTHFR gene that raw, green leafy vegetables are poorly absorbed and should be steamed. Do you know if this is true?

[JanCarol]

Thanks Peng for catching the typo.  Consumer Labs is all proprietary so no "copy and paste" allowed.  I will fix to mcg, in original.

 

Right now, I am getting ready to leave house, but I hear two questions here:

 

1.  Risks of too much folate?  

2.  MTHFR need steamed veggies?

 

I'll try and get back to this later tonight.

[JanCarol]

OK risks of too much folate - it appears that folate binds to the B12 receptors.  So if you are deficient in B12 (as most of us who have been drugged are) - the folate will prevent the B12 from getting through.

 

From:  http://www.eatingwell.com/nutrition_health/nutrient_library/folatefolic_acid

 

People who are at risk of vitamin B12 deficiency should be particularly cautious of consuming too much folic acid from supplements and fortified foods. High intakes of folic acid supplements may mask or delay the diagnosis of vitamin B12 deficiency, putting individuals at risk of neurological damage. Vitamin B12 deficiency occurs when a lack of vitamin B12 prevents the body from producing enough red blood cells, which prevents body cells from getting the oxygen they need. If vitamin B12 levels remain low for too long, the result can be potentially permanent brain and nerve cell damage.

Those at higher risk of vitamin B12 deficiency include people who follow a vegan diet (B12 is found in animal-based foods), adults older than 50 (who often don’t produce enough of the stomach enzyme needed to effectively absorb B12) and anyone with a digestive problem that impairs absorption of nutrients (e.g., celiac disease, Crohn’s). Consult your physician if you fall into one of these categories.

 

Other references I found:  Too much folate in pregnant women = contribute to autism?  https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/05/160511105352.htm

 

Note that both of these articles address "folic acid" because that's the one that has been recently fortified in a lot of foods. 

 

I'm wondering if someone with the MTHFR variation needs to avoid all folic acid fortified foods, if it actually does harm?

 

Current orthomolecular practice (like Mensah medical - I'm getting this from something that MeiMeiQuest said) is against all folate and folic acid supplementation, but I do not understand why or the mechanisms of that.

 

I did find this:  http://www.mensahmedical.com/folic-acid-supplements/ - when the guy is talking in videos (Albert Mensah) you think, yeah, yeah, right on, makes sense.  But when Alto rips him apart for promoting "chemical imbalance," I agree with her, too.

 

There is this:  http://www.livestrong.com/article/408171-signs-symptoms-of-having-too-much-folic-acid-in-your-body/

which claims that there are symptoms of too much folic acid in the body - contrary to the first eatingwell article I posted.

 

Toxicity:

There is no health risk associated with folate intake from food. However, there is risk of toxicity from folic acid found in dietary supplements and fortified foods. Folic acid is used to treat a folate deficiency. However, a folate deficiency is virtually indistinguishable from a vitamin B12 deficiency. Large doses of folic acid given to an individual who has a vitamin B12 deficiency and not a folate deficiency can cause irreversible neurological damages. The Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine has established a tolerable upper intake level for folate. For children 1 to 3 years the limit is 300 mcg daily, for children 4 to 8 the limit is 400 mcg daily, for children 9 to 13, the limit is 600 mcg daily, for adolescents 14 to 18 the limit is 600 mcg and for those 19 and older the limit is 1,000 mcg per day. Intakes above recommended limits increase the risk of adverse health effects.

Symptoms:

Having too much folic acid in the body can result in a variety of signs and symptoms. Less serious side effects include digestive problems, nausea, loss of appetite, bloating, gas, a bitter or unpleasant taste in the mouth, sleep disturbances, depression, excessive excitement, irritability and a zinc deficiency. More severe signs include psychotic behavior, numbness or tingling, mouth pain, weakness, trouble concentrating, confusion, fatigue and even seizures. An allergic reaction to folic acid may cause wheezing, swelling of the face and throat or a skin rash.

 

So - as Alto says - eat your leafy green veggies and don't worry too much about folate.  It's only the supplements and fortified foods which take you over the limits.

 

Next up:  steamed veggies for better absorption?

[JanCarol]

First, to answer my own question:  Yes.  It seems that the MTHFR variation should avoid folic acid supplemented foods:

 

http://mthfrliving.com/health-tips/mthfr-avoid-folic-acid-in-food/

 

Even simple pastas can be fortified!

 

* * *

 

Now, on to steaming those greens.  I do know that lightly steamed cruciferous are more nutritious than raw - something about a natural toxin that inhibits the release of nutrients that is released by light steaming.  It's released by boiling the food to death, too, but all you need is a light steaming to access the nutrients.

 

The bulletproof / paleo guys say you should steam your dark leafy veggies:  https://blog.bulletproof.com/the-mthfr-gene-mutation-and-how-to-rewire-your-genetics/

 

but more mainstream MTHFR discussions say to enjoy them raw:

http://www.elementalhealthandnutrition.com.au/mthfr-now-what/

 

 

 

Incorporate folate into your diet by adding lots of raw leafy green vegetables such as spinach, kale, romaine lettuce, mustard and collard greens.  Folate is very fragile to heat so it’s best to eat these raw, or if adding to cooked meals, add them at the last minute to avoid too much degradation.

 

This site is a good guide to folate diet for MTHFR:

http://dramyneuzil.com/is-folate-in-food-safe-for-mthfr-mutants/

 

Except, as Alto says:  MTHFR's are NOT mutants.  They are variants.  40% of the population are NOT mutants.

 

I hope this brings some good information and issues to light.

 

It's a good idea to quote me, using the quote button, if you want me to respond. I will see that as easily as a PM.  When you use the quote button, you can edit quotes to just include the text you want.  (well done Sheri!  That's how I re-found this discussion!)

[peng]

OK, thanks for all that JanCarol.

 

Been to GP today re blood tests ("AOK - no action required" clinic assistant told me over the phone earlier.)

 

I asked about Folic Acid 5mg which I took for 84 days, ending a week or two prior to tests, and as prescribed by him.

I had noticed a clear improvement in drive and enthusiasm to "do stuff" - as described previously on here.  This was followed in 3 or 4 days by a slide back to lethargy.

 

Clearly, the supplement helped. He has prescribed the 5mg dose again, and put it on my repeat prescription list.

The reduction in PPI omeprazole from 10mg to 8mg (been on it for 30 years) must have meant malabsorption of Folic Acid for me.

 

I asked him about B12 and magnesium.  He quoted figures and said they were fine, so that is good.

Fed up of the magnesium citrate tabs, anyway.  I suspect them of giving me bloating and indigestion.  Finding I sleep fairly well with stomach discomfort eased by applying transdermal magnesium oil to abdomen and upper chest area at night, though.  .

 

best wishes all.

 

Will update profile later.

 

Info with Folic Acid tabs says "....ii - To prevent folate deficiency caused by some medicines: 5mg per day for 4 months which may be increased up to a maximum of 15mg a day."

Clearly, this will include those like myself who have been on/are still taking PPIs.

Doesn't sound as if our GPs have any fear of what looks like a very high dose of folic acid.

[manymoretodays]

Yah.......well this is all good stuff for me.........I AM one of the mutants(variants).......    I am like a Popeye......given the daily quotient of spinach I ingest.  So.......thankful for the suggestions above.  Especially the romaine lettuce.  Love that stuff anyway........  Hoping to balance my spinach with..........yup, you guessed it........romaine lettuce!!!

 

I don't crave pasta like I used to........but do enjoy it on a maybe once a week basis now.  Comfort food I call it.  I make this spagetti with a simple spicy sauce and enjoy!  Sometimes macaroni and cheese.  Been craving cheese lately too.......oh, kind of just in my mind, but have eaten some mozzarella.  For me anyway........variety seems key and other than that..........my morning staple of blended spinach, lately blueberries and blackberries, yogurt, and real cranberry juice.......oh, a banana in there too.  And always conscientious of protein intake......be it meat or nuts or yogurt........  Am considering real oatmeal though soon.........early in the day.........for the winter months.  We'll see how that goes......

 

Thanks for the further comments on this thread.

 

mmt

 

p.s.  maybe I should have my B12 checked next round of labwork.......hmmm........I am up way early again, but will nap later........none of those other symptoms really.......some fatigue??  Nervousness once in awhile.  Little bit of crabby as well........runs it's course though.  So......I don't know.  I may leave well enough alone...........other than a recheck of thyroid stuff in a bit......  Oh, this is funny too........I am running salty.......my sodium, not above limits though.  I was so worried about that though with the oxcarbazepine.  Salty like a Popeye pirate.......I am, I am. 

[manymoretodays]

Oh......was worried about my Na being low.  Just to clarify.......as that is a concern with the oxcarbazepine sometimes.  So was glad it was normal limit upper end.

[peng]

In my post above, the sentence  "The reduction in PPI omeprazole from 10mg to 8mg (been on it for 30 years) must have meant malabsorption of Folic Acid for me" is nonsense.

 

Should read "The taking of PPI omeprazole (been on it for 30 years) must have meant malabsorption of Folic Acid for me."

[papaloapan]

I decided to write here all the posts (4) that talk about which are the correct daily doses of folate supplement in order to determine which would be the right daily dose:

 

"For most of those people, 1000mcg of methylfolate is plenty to correct the deficiency."

 

"The Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine has established a tolerable upper intake level for folate....for those 19 and older the limit is 1,000 mcg per day. Intakes above recommended limits increase the risk of adverse health effects."

 

"Canadian study: Adult daily requirement is 400 mcg"

 

"So - as Alto says - eat your leafy green veggies and don't worry too much about folate."

[peng]

I never had any adverse effects with the 5mg dose I was prescribed for a deficiency revealed by a blood test, but clearly, I did not need to take that amount for more than a few weeks.

I note that the supplement you can buy in our chemists over the counter (particularly for pregnant women) is a 400mcg dose.

I have taken several at a time with no noticeable adverse (or positive!) effects.

 

Nowadays, I get real spinach each day in a fruit nutri smoothie, thanks to Mrs P.

AS has been said by others, vitamins are best obtained from the real, live original sources.

[Sheera]

Topic title:  L-Methylfolate--need to taper?

 

Hey All--

I am currently taking L-Methylfolate because when I was first ill I went to a holistic doctor that did some tests and said my depression wasn't going away because I had a certain gene.  I am pretty sure that I was in WD at the time ( I took a plethora of drugs when I was first sick because I wasn't feeling better--now I know I should've just waited and I would've healed on my own.  I thought I was still ill--I was probably still ill AND in withdrawal)  I have kept getting this prescription filled and now it's time to either stop taking it or get some more random tests done by my holistic doctor so she can figure out why I still don't feel my best.  I don't want to get the tests done or pay for them because I know I'm in withdrawal.  But she won't refill my prescription unless I do this.  My menstrual cycle is way off and she believes she can give me some hormones to make it better.  I don't want any more stuff.  Any thoughts on just quitting the L-Methylfolate?  Do I need to taper this too?  I have been doing "relatively" well, have longer windows, am more normal, and my waves are shorter.  I don't want to have a setback if I can prevent it.  Thank you for any feedback!

 

Sheera

 

Edited February 11, 2019 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Sheera said:

L-Methylfolate--need to taper?

 

It may not be necessary to taper it, but nobody knows how you will respond if you just stopped it.  EspyB, who has never taken a psychiatric drug, had been taking magnesium and when she stopped it she got symptoms and had to restart it.  Who would have thought that would happen?  It seems that it was only because there was nothing else that had changed that she realised it was from stopping the magnesium. 

 

From wiki:

 

"It is a methylated derivative of tetrahydrofolate. Levomefolic acid is generated by MTHFR from 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate (MTHF) and used to recycle homocysteine back to methionine by methionine synthase (MS). L-methylfolate is water-soluble and primarily excreted via the kidneys."

 

It looks like it can be dissolved in water.  You could reduce it using this method to be on the safe side.  We suggest that when members are starting something new that they try a small amount first and increase it so doing the opposite might be a good idea when we are going off something.  Especially when it is able to be done.  Reduce a bit, hold and listen to your body.

[Sheera]

@ChessieCat my problem is I’m not sure how I can get a refill without getting some tests done from this particular doctor. So I may just have to do the tests and go to the dr anyway just so I can get a prescription. Worth it though if I don’t have symptoms!

 

Sheera

[ChessieCat]

I don't think you need a prescription: l-methylfolate-15-mg-60-capsules

 

Just a google search, no affiliations or recommendations.

[ChessieCat]

Does L Methylfolate require a prescription?

The FDA and European Food Standards Agency have approved L-methylfolate (5-MTHF) calcium supplements (16). It can be obtained with or without prescription, but for non-prescribed supplements ensure the label specifies the amount of active L-methylfolate.

 

From https://www.dietvsdisease.org/l-methylfolate-5-mthf/

[papaloapan]

Folic acid, however, is the synthetic version that has been linked to cancer.

…in the Journal of the American Medical Association — suggesting that all the extra folic acid might increase your odds of developing cancer. “The more we learn about folic acid, the more it’s clear that giving it to everyone has very real risks,” says folic acid researcher David Smith, PhD, a professor of pharmacology at the University of Oxford in England.

Another study out of Chile linked folic acid supplementation with an increased risk of colon cancer. Chile study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19190501

And yet another study out of Norway linked folic acid supplementation with a 21% increase in lung caner.

 

Folic acid and B12 supplementation was associated with a 21% increased risk for cancer, a 38% increased risk for dying from the disease, and an 18% increase in deaths from all causes. (Source_ https://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20091117/folic-acid-b12-may-increase-cancer-risk

While folate is a necessary part of a balanced diet, folic acid has actually been linked to increased rates of cancer (another source for ya).

from: https://ancestral-nutrition.com/unbiased-review-usana/

 

lesson: the more natural the better

[JackieDecides]

On 10/15/2011 at 4:35 PM, Altostrata said:

There's a genetic mutation causing difficulty in absorbing ordinary folate supplements. It's related to heart problems. I'm supposed to have this, so I know more than anyone should about it.

 

@Altostrata I am attempting to read through this thread but still only halfway through the first page and I have to get off the computer. 

 

do you recommend I have the test to see if I have the mutation asap - paying cash - or can I put it off until I have insurance? or maybe taking some other cheaper version of the supplement without taking the test? 

 

or - and this just occurred to me - wait and not take anything more right now?  it's funny how since a DOCTOR sent me home with the Deplin I feel like I should take it!   and I don't mean funny "ha-ha"!! 

 

[Altostrata]

Testing for the MTHFR mutation is productive only in certain complications of pregnancy. For the most part, there's a huge amount of smoke being blown around MTHFR, with some specializing in "treating" what's a normal genetic variation.

 

If you eat lots of fresh leafy green vegetables, you don't have to worry about supplementation. Eat plants, they're good for you.

 

My folate tests are now excellent, despite my heterozygous MTHFR variation, which is very common. Could very well be that whatever correlation it might have with a heart condition, etc. actually reflects the usual bad modern eating habits that include inadequate fresh vegetables.

 

I like broccoli.

[JackieDecides]

On 5/10/2019 at 12:22 PM, Altostrata said:

If you eat lots of fresh leafy green vegetables, you don't have to worry about supplementation. Eat plants, they're good for you.

 

that makes sense to me right now, but we'll see how I feel once I am at my doctor's office again. the concierge practice I joined is very upscale, in a really ritzy neighborhood, and that makes me even more intimidated than a doctor would normally. also, the doctor is very healthy and sports minded. which I try not to blame him for! LOL. 

[Altostrata]

The MTHFR thing is one of those health fads. I would not buy any pricey supplements to "treat" it.

[SteveT]

From a clinical, scientific study: "Results show that in a naturalistic setting, patients managed with l-methylfolate achieved statistically significant improvements in self-reported depression symptoms and functioning and greater satisfaction with their medication treatment." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3869616/ Considering it has no side effects, people should absolutely be considering it. You can purchase it now for less than $.50 per dose. I have had excellent results with it over 4 years and have gone on and off and can confirm its effectiveness. It is not a fad. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi SteveT,

I took a look at the article. 

I tested and had the genetic MTHFR mutation. 

 

And at one time took 2000 mcg of L-methyl/day in addition to AD's. 

 

I also took Deplin briefly.  I probably tried the 7.5 mg dose twice a day.  I was still on meds then.  I didn't notice much from the Deplin.

 

"A double-blind multicenter study showed that adding l-methylfolate 7.5 or 15 mg to standard psychotropic medication significantly improved clinical recovery in depressed patients with folate deficiency.^1"

(from the article, published in 2012 ^)

 

 

That's a massive dose that they recommend, in the article plus it just looks at using the Deplin along with AD's.

My goal was to get AD free and free of all psychotropics.  Which I have.

 

Now I take 400 mcg of L-methylfolate as well as eat spinach every day.  400 mcg is only .4 mg.  I just buy it at the natural food store......it's pretty cheap....the capsules I get.

 

So I think that they might be overdoing it with the recommended dose range.  If it works for you......that's fine.

 

And yes......I think it's helped me as well, although I prefer getting the bulk of it, naturally from green vegies.

 

To each his own I spose.

 

I didn't know I had the mutation when pregnant and just did the standard pre-natal vitamins.  My Sun(son) didn't have any neural tube defects and is a young adult now.......my pride and joy!

 

I've never had my folate levels tested.  Just the testing for the mutation......which somehow my functional medicine doctor got covered......it used to be a fairly expensive test to run.

 

Most likely many probably do have the mutation, who don't ever suffer depression/low moods or other mood or mental health problems.....if you will. 

I think that's why it might be considered a bit "faddish".

 

You might want to start an introduction topic for yourself.  I'm not finding one for you.

Thanks.

 

Best,

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by manymoretodays
fixed weird font size

[SteveT]

I've been on this site for years...never been asked to introduce myself. I just had to do something with my account and it made me accept terms, so maybe something changed.

 

Anyhow, if you read the article, actually "52 were treated with l-methylfolate alone" 10% just had Folate.

I think it's dangerous to call a safe and clinically effective supplement a "fad" (Altostrata did). That's why I posted the article.

Yes, your results will vary, like with anything else. Yes, also had Genesight and it said I would benefit from Deplin, but was already on it due to prior Dr. recommendation.

 

I am taking Celexa now, but also took Deplin with Lexapro. Also tried Pristiq, but I think the Deplin made the Pristiq too strong.

Deplin has allowed me to settle on an average dose of Celexa, so I am happy not to be taking a high dose.