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Linkski: really confused


Linkski

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Can the same drugs affect you differently at different times in your life?

 

I have been on Lexapro and Ciprimil at different points in my life and I swore by them. This time around I wasn't so lucky.

 

2.5 years ago I went onto Lexapro for anxiety and it only made things worse. I was told by doctors to hang in there and changed briefly to Pristiq and back again. Finally after 12 weeks I stabilised and could go back to work. I have been on a rollercoaster ride since then. Ok and stable for perhaps 6-8 weeks and then having to raise my dose when I would be overcome with anxiety out of the blue again. I am sure I became sensitive to other things like antibiotics and b vitamins. I tried b vitamins which set me back 3 weeks of feeling blah.

 

I decided after trying to taper off Lexapro to swap to Ciprimil in December last year. Things went really well for 6 weeks until I crashed again.

 

I decided to get off the roller coaster in May and taper off. I took my last pill on 23 June. I used some supplements and felt like the taper went well with only a bit of dizziness. That is, until the 6 week mark. I could feel the waves of anxiety and depression start creeping back in. In September we went away on holidays and I found myself crying a lot and experiencing anhedonia. After much research I came to the conclusion that I was suffering with PAWS.

 

Since then, things have gotten worse. The depression was becoming worse and at the beginning of October I started waking at 4am every morning with severe anxiety and panic. At first, I thought this might be due to a cup of coffee I had. I have given up coffee because for the last few months I had noticed that it, along with alcohol, would make me feel on edge.

 

This persisted for 2 weeks when I finally thought to go and see a naturopath. He did say that I have a parasite, my body is very acidic, I have a lot of inflammation, and he would focus on reducing my high cortisol levels.
After 24 hours on some supplements I was feeling quite panicky. I went a whole night with absolutely no sleep while my mind raced the entire night. I put it down to a calmative he gave which contained St Johns Wort. I took no more but a week later the same thing has happened. No sleep. I am absolutely terrified of this continuing. On the 2 occasions it has happened I feel absolutely hopeless and beside myself.

 

Could anyone please shed any light onto why this is happening and whether it might be from the supplements?

 

One of the supplements contains magnesium, zinc, selenium, and chromium and I am also on a super mushroom complex. Do I persist with the vitamins? Is it a getting worse before better scenario?
I am thinking that my body is extremely sensitive to even vitamins now. How long will this last?
Do I trust my naturopath?

 

I really appreciate having people to talk to who understand that this is real and not all in my head. It is hard offline to find people experiencing this who are willing to talk and recognise it. I am sick of doctors trying to tell me that I am relapsing and this is just who I am. I will not accept that. It is really hard doing this on my own with no real support from people or even from a magic pill/vitamin.

 

Any thought would be appreciated. Success stories would be great too.

Edited by scallywag
added paragraph breaks and tags

August 2003 - 20mg Ciprimil for PND. After 6 months tapered over 4 months. (No problems)

April 2011 - 5mg Lexapro for anxiety. After 7 months tapered over 5 months. (No problems)

June 2014 - 10mg Lexapro for 3 days. Crazy side effects. 5mg for 2 weeks then up to 10mg.

After 6 weeks on 10mg changed to Pristiq for 2 wks then back to 10mg Lexapro.

February 2015 - increase to 15mg Lexapro

June 2015 - increase to 20mg Lexapro

December 2015 - changed from Lexapro to 10mg Ciprimil. Great change-over and good for 7 weeks.

Feb 2016 - not good but blamed it on antibiotics

April 2016 - increase to 20mg Ciprimil for 3 weeks with no change.

May 2016 - back down to 10mg Ciprimil

End of May - started tapering with help of The Road Back Supplements. Shaved a bit off every 3 days.

23 June 2016 - last Ciprimil. Felt great for 6 weeks until PAWS started.

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

Linkski -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-18 months particularly?

  • Any drugs prior to 18 months ago can be listed with start and stop years.
  • Actual full dates (month, day & year) are best. If you don't have those, month and year (e.g. "July 2016", "mid-May 2016") are more helpful than relative time frames such as "last week" or "3 months ago."
  • You don't need to include symptoms or diagnoses other than the initial condition that led to prescribing the first drug.
  • We ask for this information in your signature so that we can see it at a glance. A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs.
  • You can find instructions in this topic: Please put your withdrawal history in signature

Addressing your questions:
 

Can the same drugs affect you differently at different times in your life?

 

Yes it is possible to have a negative response to a medication that previously caused none. When we take an antidepressant or other psycho-neuro-active medication, our CNS (central nervous system) adapts itself to the medication. When we discontinue the med, the CNS undoes the adaptations.  Some people become more sensitive to psycho-neuro-active medications each time they start and discontinue a medication. This link on kindling explains why we become so sensitive to drugs, supplements, certain foods, and even stress.

 

Could anyone please shed any light onto why this [insomnia, anxiety] is happening and whether it might be from the supplements?

 

This is most likely caused by withdrawal from Cipramil (citalopram). You can read more about withdrawal in another topic on this site:

What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

Some other discussions that may help you understand what's happening with your CNS:

How your brain responds to psychiatric drugs - aka "Brain remodeling"

Youtube video, 4 minutes: Healing from antidepressants

 

Do I persist with the vitamins? Is it a getting worse before better scenario?
I am thinking that my body is extremely sensitive to even vitamins now. How long will this last?
Do I trust my naturopath?

 

Very, very few doctors, whether allopathic or naturopathic, understand the nature of withdrawal from these medications. Most MDs think that the drugs are easily discontinued and that symptoms will be mild and last for a short period, if they occur at all.  NDs are prone to thinking that the issue is related to nutrient deficiencies and often prescribe complicated supplementation routines. Neither professional understands that the CNS has changed itself in response to the medication and needs to "unchange" when the drug is discontinued or reduced in dosage.

 

Because there is so much healing and restoration work going on during withdrawal, we suggest avoiding multi-nutrient formulations.  It's difficult to tell what's causing a problem if/when it occurs. A single nutrient is a much safer bet than a multi or a complex. Also important: only add one supplement at a time so that you can identify whether its effect on you is positive, neutral or negative.

 

The 2 supplements that many people find helpful and do well on are magnesium and omega 3 fatty acids from fish oil.  Most diets in the developed world are deficient in Mag and Omega 3.  You can read our discussion and suggestions about these supplements in these topics

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

We suggest that people avoid  B-vitamins whether a solo supplements, in multi-vitamins, or in a B-complex formulation. Many people find them too stimulating, thereby aggravating symptoms.


Now some questions for you:

  • What was your Lexapro (escitalopram) dose before you switched to Cipramil (citalopram)?
     
  • Please post how you discontinued Cipramil as best as you remember:
  • What was your starting dose in May?
  • What were the interim doses between starting dose and 0 mg?
  • How long did you stay at each interim dose?

It's fairly common that people have a "honeymoon" of 2-8 weeks after discontinuing a neuroactive med. Not much comfort or relief for your symptoms, I know, but your experience is not unique.
 
The only known effective ways of minimizing withdrawal symptoms are:

  • time, riding out the symptoms for an unpredictable period of time before they fully resolve,
    -- and --
  • reinstating a very small dose of the medication, stabilizing on that dose, then slowly tapering off no more than 10% per month.

Reinstatement is more likely to be effective the sooner it is done after the last dose. You are now approximately 5 months after your last dose in June, which is outside what we see as the optimal period of 1 day - 3 months.  There are people who have reinstated after that period, some as long as 9 months after, with success. That said there are some risks with reinstatement.
 
Please do not reinstate cipramil right now.  If you would like to consider this, please post that you would like to do so. We'll follow up with a suggested dose once we have your full medication and withdrawal history. You can read about reinstatement, its benefits and risks here.
About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

This is probably relevant reading for you:
Tips for tapering off Celexa/Cipramil (citalopram)

This is YOUR introduction topic -- the place for you to ask questions, record symptoms, share your progress, and connect with other members of the SA community.

I hope you'll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation. I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but am glad that you found us.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to post

Thank you Scallywag.

I just feel so scared when I'm alone. I am worried about the future and how long I will feel like this. I am so conscious of everything I put in my mouth in case I react to it.

Surely my recovery won't be too long seeing as I wasn't on a cocktail of drugs?

Do you really think that I am suffering so much because of the taper? I just felt so yuk and unstable on the drugs that I really wanted them out of my body. It terrifies me to go back on them now that I know how poisonous they are. Some days I feel like I don't have a choice. I am quite impatient. I haven't felt like myself for over 2.5 years. I don't want recovery to take years.

I think I have to come off the supplements because I have definitely gotten worse on them.

I am having a DNA gene test today to see what drugs don' t agree with me for the future.

I also have MTHFR polymorphism which affects the way my body metabolises certain drugs. I am just trying to get to the bottom of why the drugs affected me so badly and didn't work but only made me feel worse.

Thank you so much for your time and advise.

This is the longest time and effort anyone has put into helping me for a long time. I have only ever been made to feel like I have some deep seeded psychological issues that I need to deal with. When you have tried everything from prayer, exercise, meditation, diet, yoga, hypnotherapy and seeing a psychologist to no avail, there has to be more to it. I have never ever had a cigarette or been drunk in my whole life! Btw, yoga makes me feel worse lately. Is this normal? I rally do feel like a fruit loop most of the time and a bit of a hypercondriac.

I think I am beginning to find some answers here. Thank you so much.

Please keep talking to me and anyone else.

Ps.. I also think I posted this wrong. How do I fix it?

August 2003 - 20mg Ciprimil for PND. After 6 months tapered over 4 months. (No problems)

April 2011 - 5mg Lexapro for anxiety. After 7 months tapered over 5 months. (No problems)

June 2014 - 10mg Lexapro for 3 days. Crazy side effects. 5mg for 2 weeks then up to 10mg.

After 6 weeks on 10mg changed to Pristiq for 2 wks then back to 10mg Lexapro.

February 2015 - increase to 15mg Lexapro

June 2015 - increase to 20mg Lexapro

December 2015 - changed from Lexapro to 10mg Ciprimil. Great change-over and good for 7 weeks.

Feb 2016 - not good but blamed it on antibiotics

April 2016 - increase to 20mg Ciprimil for 3 weeks with no change.

May 2016 - back down to 10mg Ciprimil

End of May - started tapering with help of The Road Back Supplements. Shaved a bit off every 3 days.

23 June 2016 - last Ciprimil. Felt great for 6 weeks until PAWS started.

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

Your post is fine -- there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. :)

 

Yes the symptoms you describe fit right in with the set of symptoms people experience after discontinuing an SSRI too rapidly.  Please click on the link above "What is withdrawal syndrome?".  You may also find links to helpful information and discussions in this topic:

Link to Important topics about symptoms including sleep
 
Doctors are woefully undereducated or miseducated about the existence, probability and severity of symptoms some people experience coming off a medication like Cipramil.  Most of the information and education provided to medical professionals today comes from the pharmaceutical manufacturers whose incentive is to make a profit off their R&D and not to damage the reputation of their products. Very little research is done or has been done, if any, by the primary "education" providers into what patients ACTUALLY experience. When you feel ready to and capable of dealing with feeling shocked and appalled, you can read more about this in a book by an investigative journalist, Mad In America, by Robert Whitaker.
 
The best hypothesis for what you are going through is that your CNS (central nervous system) adapted to the presence of Lexapro and then adjusted to the switch to Cipramil and has been working hard since June to catch up to the absence of Cipramil.  Here are two links that may help you understand what is going on according the "destabilized CNS" hypothesis:
How your brain responds to psychiatric drugs - aka "Brain remodeling"
Youtube video, 4 minutes: Healing from antidepressants
 
Did you have any symptoms when you switched from Lexapro to Cipramil?

Stopping supplements is probably a good idea. The two supplements that seem to help during withdrawal are
Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker
and
Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

Both these nutrients are lacking in the diets of most people in the developed world -- Europe, Australia, Canada, U.S.A. If you choose to start one, remember the saying "start low and go slow."

  • Start with one of the supplements NOT both.
  • Start with a dose that is half the recommended amount on the container) or LESS.
  • Give yourself about a week to see if you have a negative reaction.
  • If no negative reaction, then increase the dose a bit, maybe half-way from your first dose to the full recommended dose.
  • Give this a week to observe your reaction.
  • If no negative reaction, then increase to the full amount.

Many people express strong reservations about reinstating the drug they discontinued. Unfortunately "hair of the dog that bit ya" is the only known effective relief for withdrawal symptoms. Please read the link about reinstating above before ruling it out.  There are people that started with the same negative opinion about medication who after a period of time chose to reinstate, had their symptoms ease after a number of weeks and haven't looked back, except with regret that they didn't reinstate sooner.  The decision is yours; so again, please read the reinstatement topic linked above to understand the potential benefits and risks.

 

I can't answer your question about yoga; what type of yoga are you doing?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to post

Please help me!
I have had 2 nights now with no sleep and panic all night. I am thinking of reinstating. I am desperate and can't function.

 

In November last year I tried tapering off 20mg Lexapro. After 4 weeks I was down to 15mg and feeling crap. That's when I decided to switch to Ciprimil. The doctor said to come off the Lexapro for 3 days cold turkey and on the 4th day start the Ciprimil at 10mg. Then after a week she wanted me to go to 20mg.

 

The day before I went onto the Ciprimil I felt great. On the day of taking it I felt a bit dizzy and that's all. I felt no need to go up to 20mg so I stayed on 10mg and did really well for around 6 weeks. So in February I started feeling a bit yuck but I roughed it out until April when my grandmother died and threw decided to go up to the 20mg. After 3 weeks on that dose and no improvement I went back down to 10mg and decided I was sick of the ups and downs and wanted to come off it.

 

So it was the beginning of May that I went from 10mg and every 3 - 4 days sliced a bit off the tablet until the 23 June I took my last sliver which would have been about 2mg. Then I felt great for 6 weeks until the depression started creeping in around August. In September I started getting the mood swings, bouts of crying and anhedonia. Now I am just a panicky mess.

 

Should I reinstate with Ciprimil or try something else like Prozac?

 

I did a DNA test yesterday to see which drugs are best for me but what a shame I don't get the results for 2 weeks.
I am really at the end of my tether. Any advise would be great.

Edited by scallywag
white space

August 2003 - 20mg Ciprimil for PND. After 6 months tapered over 4 months. (No problems)

April 2011 - 5mg Lexapro for anxiety. After 7 months tapered over 5 months. (No problems)

June 2014 - 10mg Lexapro for 3 days. Crazy side effects. 5mg for 2 weeks then up to 10mg.

After 6 weeks on 10mg changed to Pristiq for 2 wks then back to 10mg Lexapro.

February 2015 - increase to 15mg Lexapro

June 2015 - increase to 20mg Lexapro

December 2015 - changed from Lexapro to 10mg Ciprimil. Great change-over and good for 7 weeks.

Feb 2016 - not good but blamed it on antibiotics

April 2016 - increase to 20mg Ciprimil for 3 weeks with no change.

May 2016 - back down to 10mg Ciprimil

End of May - started tapering with help of The Road Back Supplements. Shaved a bit off every 3 days.

23 June 2016 - last Ciprimil. Felt great for 6 weeks until PAWS started.

Link to post

Hey Linkski

 

Hang in there.  I know it might seem bad (and of course it is) but it's probably not the end of the tether.  I quit Zoloft and zyprexa cold turkey in 2014 and on many days since then I have filled up multiple dishtowels with tears and snot from weeping and often have to go on with no or little sleep and feel like a zombie.  That said, reinstatement might not be a bad plan.  I never did reinstate (but I think about it a lot even to this day) so I don't know, but hopefully some one with a little more experience with reinstatement can give you some advice.  I hope you find some relief soon.

 

Poetjester

Court committed to take Prozac, Paxci, and Respiradol from 8/95 to 3/96.   developed severe akithisia and brain damage.  Was unable to speak and walking in circles 15 hours a day.  Went in for 5 sessions of ECT during a 10 day period in March of '96 and my forced medication was discontinued at that time.  My akithisia and brain damage cleared up within a few days of stopping the meds.

 

On Zoloft (200 mg) and Zyprexa (17.5 mg) March 1998- Feb 2014

In between was placed on Effexor 200 mg and Abilify for six months in 2004.  Developed mild akithisia which went away once I stopped the Abilify.  Developed severe GI issues in Dec 2001 and from that time on suffered from fatigue and hypersomnia where I would sleep between 12 and 20 hours a day and rarely ever left my apartment. 

 

Had tapered to 100 mg of Zoloft and 7.5 mg of Zyprexa at the time of going cold turkey Feb. 2014

Went 5 days without sleep at the beginning while vomiting all over my apt.  Had brain zaps for a number of weeks and also lightheadedness which both eventually went away.  However 2 1/2 yrs later I still struggle with insomnia, depression, and fatigue.

 

 

 

 

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  • Administrator

Welcome, Linkski.

 

What do you mean when you say you "crashed" after the switch to Ciprimil (citalopram)? What antibiotics were you taking?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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By crashed I meant severe anxiety again. The antibiotics were erythromycin.

August 2003 - 20mg Ciprimil for PND. After 6 months tapered over 4 months. (No problems)

April 2011 - 5mg Lexapro for anxiety. After 7 months tapered over 5 months. (No problems)

June 2014 - 10mg Lexapro for 3 days. Crazy side effects. 5mg for 2 weeks then up to 10mg.

After 6 weeks on 10mg changed to Pristiq for 2 wks then back to 10mg Lexapro.

February 2015 - increase to 15mg Lexapro

June 2015 - increase to 20mg Lexapro

December 2015 - changed from Lexapro to 10mg Ciprimil. Great change-over and good for 7 weeks.

Feb 2016 - not good but blamed it on antibiotics

April 2016 - increase to 20mg Ciprimil for 3 weeks with no change.

May 2016 - back down to 10mg Ciprimil

End of May - started tapering with help of The Road Back Supplements. Shaved a bit off every 3 days.

23 June 2016 - last Ciprimil. Felt great for 6 weeks until PAWS started.

Link to post
  • Moderator

G'day Linkski from another Brisbanite!  (we have a few of us in the area)

 

Your window for opportunity for reinstating Cipramil is closing - we get best results up to 3 months out, and the further away from your last dose, the probabilities for a successful reinstatement decrease.  We have had successful reinstatements as far out as 6 months to a year, but these are rare.

 

Please consider taking 1/2 mg of Cipramil.

 

One of the crimes of the pharma industry is that they do not give us the dosages we need in order to safely taper (10% of former dosage).  In order to take 1/2 mg of Cipramil, you will want to make a liquid:

How to Make a Liquid from Tablets or Capsule

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/235-using-an-oral-syringe-and-other-tapering-techniques/

 

If it's going to work, you may feel some relief in the first day you take it, with improvements over the next week.  Sometimes it takes at least a week to see if a reinstatement will work.

 

If you become worse, then reinstatement is not for you, and you will need to focus on Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms.  Build a toolkit of different techniques, so that you can shift and move your practice as your symptoms shift and move.  And they will shift and move as you heal: Waves and Windows

 

Here, you can look at your symptoms and compare them to the commonest symptoms of withdrawal.  You can print this out, make several copies, and track your progress as your symptoms change & morph during your healing process:   Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's Most Common symptoms of Withdrawal

 

You can get all the local Aussie news, here:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6284-australia-members-please-check-in-here/

 

We used to have an SA lunch in Brisbane (on Mt. Coot-tha), but it was difficult getting people to commit to a date/time.  If that ever becomes more suitable (obtains critical mass) I'll be holding luncheons again, as it was great to meet people who understand, face to face.

 

I hope you see the sun today!

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

Link to post

Nice to meet you JanCarol.

What are you doing up at 1:20? I have had another night of no sleep. This is assign to the already acute anxiety. I need sleep but am afraid to take a drug. I am exhausted but when my body relaxes it jerks awake. What do you think? If I take some Stilnox would it stuff me up. I need sleep!

August 2003 - 20mg Ciprimil for PND. After 6 months tapered over 4 months. (No problems)

April 2011 - 5mg Lexapro for anxiety. After 7 months tapered over 5 months. (No problems)

June 2014 - 10mg Lexapro for 3 days. Crazy side effects. 5mg for 2 weeks then up to 10mg.

After 6 weeks on 10mg changed to Pristiq for 2 wks then back to 10mg Lexapro.

February 2015 - increase to 15mg Lexapro

June 2015 - increase to 20mg Lexapro

December 2015 - changed from Lexapro to 10mg Ciprimil. Great change-over and good for 7 weeks.

Feb 2016 - not good but blamed it on antibiotics

April 2016 - increase to 20mg Ciprimil for 3 weeks with no change.

May 2016 - back down to 10mg Ciprimil

End of May - started tapering with help of The Road Back Supplements. Shaved a bit off every 3 days.

23 June 2016 - last Ciprimil. Felt great for 6 weeks until PAWS started.

Link to post

I recently did a cold turkey off zyprexa and experienced about a week of insomnia. Just now started sleeping again a few days ago so I know how it feels to be wide awake and having racing thoughts while feeling doom and despair while the rest of the world sleeps. It can be quite frightening.

 

Have you tried Magnesium (glycinate) supplements. That is what is helping me, along with prayer I am now getting about 4 hours of sleep.

 

Just know that you are not alone. I thought about reinstating too, plenty of times but thank God I didnt. It got worst before it got better for me and now wd symptoms are easing up.

 

Hang in there! You're not alone.

 

PM me if you would like.

Zyprexa 5 mg for 6 months---quit cold turkey on 9/20

Zofran taken 3 times in October 2016 for nausea during severe withdrawal in order to work and function

Xanax 1 mg prn for anxiety (during severe withdrawal) & sleep, taken 3 times---stopped on 11/3/16

Supplements: Vitamin B6 and VitB12---discontinued due to seemingly increasing depersonalization

Magnesium Glycinate & Magnesium Oil---helps me to go to sleep and stay asleep

11/14/16---slept 7 hours for the first time in 5 to 6 weeks!

ON THE ROAD TO RECOVERY & HEALING---HORRIBLE WAVE AT THE MOMENT 11/18/16 to present

Reinstated 1 mg of Zyprexa on 11/29/16

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  • Administrator

Nice to meet you JanCarol.

What are you doing up at 1:20? I have had another night of no sleep. This is assign to the already acute anxiety. I need sleep but am afraid to take a drug. I am exhausted but when my body relaxes it jerks awake. What do you think? If I take some Stilnox would it stuff me up. I need sleep!

 

 

Hi, Linski.

 

Welcome to the forum from me, too. 

 

Please be careful with drugs like Stilnox (Ambien). Stilnox is what's called a "z-drug", which is very similar to a benzodizepine. Z-drugs can cause dependency in as little as 2 weeks, and the withdrawal can be quite severe. 

 

Please read through what JanCarol posted above about reinstating 1/2 mg of Cipramil.

 

Let us know how you're doing. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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  • Moderator

Hey Linkski - 

 

I'm um, not at my desk right now, so I don't know what time it should be, or when I am.

 

But yes, I do many late nights, too.

 

Please, please, please, listen to Shep and avoid Stillnox.  I'm going to say it more strongly than Shep.  If you can get a script for ONE PILL, it is worth a try.  But you can't get a script for ONE PILL, so avoid it like the plague.  It is highly addictive, and when combined with antidepressant withdrawal - well - let me tell a story - 

 

There were lawsuits involved with "sleep walking" events with Stillnox.  People would sleep eat - empty the whole refrigerator and eat it all.  Sleep driving, yes, they'd take the keys and take the car out for a spin and a few ended up in dire conditions (like over a cliff, in a ditch, against a tree, etc.).  Sleep fighting.  Sleep exercising.  Sleep running.

 

Now what kind of sedative was that?  Shouldn't a sedative just put you to sleep?  What was it about this Stillnox, that people were out doing active things and sleeping through them?

 

I think one of the things that the lawsuits overlooked was that most people on Stillnox are also on an antidepressant.  Antidepressants (and withdrawal from them) induce a condition called "akathisia"

 

Akathisia is defined as psychomotor restlessness, and is responsible for a lot of insomnia on the drugs and in withdrawal from them.  You can read more about akathisia here:  Akathisia vs. Restlessness & Agitatation

 

There are many Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms, especially ones for insomnia:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/53-sleep-problems-that-awful-withdrawal-insomnia/

Important Topics about Symptoms Including Sleep Problems

 

Many of us take magnesium baths, or cool showers.  Blackout drapes (I use a blindfold and an MP3 player with soft, relaxing music or meditations), Youtube meditations, mindfulness.  

 

There are too many ways to survive insomnia - and akathisia - without resorting to drugs.

 

And yes, in answer to your question:

 If I take some Stilnox would it stuff me up. I need sleep! 

 

Yes it will stuff you up.  Maybe not the first time.  Maybe not the second or third time.  But eventually, it would complicate your situation and make it harder for you to untangle the knot of your withdrawal.

 

The best thing for withdrawal is the drug that you are in withdrawal from.  

 

If you were in the alcoholic DT's and I offered you heroin, it might ease your DT's for a short time - but that would complicate the knot, and make it harder for you to survive the withdrawal intact.  There is no quick fix.

 

The best thing for the withdrawal is the hair of the dog that bit you.  That would be Cipramil.  But it's been awhile since you were on it you only want a tiny tiny amount, not the full dose.  That will make coming off of it easier.  Just enough to ease your symptoms, and you don't want to delay too long, or your window of opportunity will close.

 

Many of us have lived without sleep for longer than this.  Antidepressant withdrawal is a mighty foe, and not to be taken lightly.  Sometimes it takes months to come out from under a drug, and you were on the drugs for 13 years, with many switches to destabilise your system.  You will not walk away from it in a week, or a month - it will take time, and self care.  

 

You can do this, many of us have, and many have survived for long periods on very little sleep.  Resting is important, and sleep will come when you need it.  Your restlessness is a chemically induced state.  Please do not add more chemicals to the mix.

 

It does get better, it just takes time.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • 1 month later...
  • Mentor

Linksi, so sorry you are suffering.

 

I went through the horrible dread, constant dread.  And the attempting to sleep, and being jerked awake in panic.   It is horrific, thank god, it seems to have passed for me.  I did reinstate a small amount of my last drug, that I tapered. And I have found, that there is a very fine line in reinstating, too high, and more symptoms, I have stuck with my small increase.    Also I was very bad person, I tapered too quickly.  I am paying the price, for NOT listening to the moderators on this site.    

 

Hang in there,  I think that was the worst of my symptoms, I sympathise and feel for you.    It does pass.  It will pass.    

 

I came across this thread, as I just had MTHFR tested, and I have the two mutations, and that explains, so, so much of the problems in my mental health, and energy levels,  so I feel I am gradually, finally learning how to help my own health along, hopefully, never, ever to touch antidepressants again.             

1992 Dothiepin 375mg 8 weeks, exhaustion/depression.  Serotonin syndrome, oh yes!  seizures . Fell pregnant, 3rd baby, Nitrous Oxide, 3 weeks mental hospital pp psychosis. zoloft tegretol.

Feb 1996 ct tegretol, tapered Zoloft 8 weeks. as (unexpectedly)  pregnant. Steven died after 3 days.(Zolft HLHS baby).  98 had run in with Paxil, 2 tablets, 3 weeks taper, survived.
2005..menopause? exhausted again. Zyprexa, mad in three days, fallout....  Seroquel, Effexor, tegretol,   and 8 years of self destruction. Failed taper.
Damn 1/4 valium... nuts again! .fallout, zoloft 100mg  seroquol 400mg mirtazapine 45 mg  tegretol 400mg.  Mid 14 3 month taper. Nov 14 CRASH.
Mid 15 ....   75mg  seroquel,  3 x 1800mg SJW  2 week window end of December followed by 6 week wave
5/2 68mg seroquel, 2.5 x 1800mg SJW::::20/2 61mg seroquel, 2.5 x  SJW::: 26/2 54mg seroquel, 2 x SJW::::21/3 43mg seroquel, 1 x 2700SJW :::: 23/4 36mg seroquel 1 x 1800 SJW
15/5 33mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::   28/5 30mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::;  18/6 25mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::::, 11/7 21mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::, 26/7 18mg seroquel 1/2 SJW:::, 9/8 12mg seroquel :::, 16/8 6mg seroquel ;;;;, 12/9 0 jump.

23/9  3mg.....,  27/9 0mg.  Reinstated, 6mg, then 12mg.............  LIGHTBULB MOMENT,  I have  MTHFR 2x mutations.  CFS and issues with MOULD in my home. So I left home, and working 150km away during week, loving it.

Oh was hard, panic attacks first week, gone now, along with the mould issues.

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  • 2 weeks later...

so sorry to hear you are suffering right now. I just want to give you some encouragement and let you know there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Look up the topic about waves and Windows of withdrawal. This was life-changing for me. it let me know that I wasn't going crazy and that these patterns are normal. it gives you hope that relief will come, and you will find some peace and clarity. even if another waves comes you know that you can and will return back into another window one day. I was only on Zoloft for a year and 2 months and I've been going through waves and Windows for the past year and a half. each one is getting a bit easier and each window is more wonderful. I am slowly making it and so will you. I am currently in a wave now, but having the understanding of what is actually happening makes it easier to deal.

This site is so refreshing to roam around. helps you not feel so alone and it's nice to finally have someone validate what you are feeling.

I too went to a nutritionist and got my blood and hormone panels done and tried to properly suppliment my body. what a mistake. it's what caused this wave in the first place. I think the greatest asset is time (sucks I know). I too always want to be pro active and conquer things, do them the best and be first to do everything including recovering. unfortunately this doesn't work like that. time and Support are the only things that truly have helped. Be patient with yourself and your body. Hang in there...you Can do this

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  • Moderator Emeritus

so sorry to hear you are suffering right now. I just want to give you some encouragement and let you know there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Look up the topic about waves and Windows of withdrawal. This was life-changing for me. it let me know that I wasn't going crazy and that these patterns are normal. it gives you hope that relief will come, and you will find some peace and clarity.

The Windows and Waves pattern of stabilization

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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  • 3 years later...

Waves

 

Hello. I was just wondering if essential oils can trigger a wave?

 

Edited by ChessieCat
added topic title

August 2003 - 20mg Ciprimil for PND. After 6 months tapered over 4 months. (No problems)

April 2011 - 5mg Lexapro for anxiety. After 7 months tapered over 5 months. (No problems)

June 2014 - 10mg Lexapro for 3 days. Crazy side effects. 5mg for 2 weeks then up to 10mg.

After 6 weeks on 10mg changed to Pristiq for 2 wks then back to 10mg Lexapro.

February 2015 - increase to 15mg Lexapro

June 2015 - increase to 20mg Lexapro

December 2015 - changed from Lexapro to 10mg Ciprimil. Great change-over and good for 7 weeks.

Feb 2016 - not good but blamed it on antibiotics

April 2016 - increase to 20mg Ciprimil for 3 weeks with no change.

May 2016 - back down to 10mg Ciprimil

End of May - started tapering with help of The Road Back Supplements. Shaved a bit off every 3 days.

23 June 2016 - last Ciprimil. Felt great for 6 weeks until PAWS started.

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Profile

How do I edit my medication history?

 

Edited by ChessieCat
added topic title

August 2003 - 20mg Ciprimil for PND. After 6 months tapered over 4 months. (No problems)

April 2011 - 5mg Lexapro for anxiety. After 7 months tapered over 5 months. (No problems)

June 2014 - 10mg Lexapro for 3 days. Crazy side effects. 5mg for 2 weeks then up to 10mg.

After 6 weeks on 10mg changed to Pristiq for 2 wks then back to 10mg Lexapro.

February 2015 - increase to 15mg Lexapro

June 2015 - increase to 20mg Lexapro

December 2015 - changed from Lexapro to 10mg Ciprimil. Great change-over and good for 7 weeks.

Feb 2016 - not good but blamed it on antibiotics

April 2016 - increase to 20mg Ciprimil for 3 weeks with no change.

May 2016 - back down to 10mg Ciprimil

End of May - started tapering with help of The Road Back Supplements. Shaved a bit off every 3 days.

23 June 2016 - last Ciprimil. Felt great for 6 weeks until PAWS started.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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  • Moderator Emeritus
1 hour ago, Linkski said:

Hello. I was just wondering if essential oils can trigger a wave?

 

aromatherapy-and-essential-oils

 

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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