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Mousse - Wanting to live AD free


Mousse

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It's hard to write this but I need to reach out to others for support right now. My personal journey began 17 years ago when I started taking an AD for PMDD by my GP. I have been on 5 different ADs Paxil, Zoloft, Celexa, Lexapro and most recently Remeron 3/11-7/11. I was told to discontinue to start a different AD - back to Lexapro and given a 5 day taper. I never started Lexapro again and have been going through horrendous withdrawal symptoms for the last 7+ weeks. I am scared, angry and confused. I am also very mad at myself for not researching how to taper off of this and just listened to a Dr. that I had very little faith in to start with. My body pain, insomnia and dry mouth have led me to internal Med. Dr's who are telling me I have fibermyalgia that just happened to start 3 days after I quit taking Remeron. Psych and IM dr. want me to start back on a low dose. Does anyone have any advice or experience with doing something like that. I feel like I've destroyed my brain and body at this point. I feel all your pain and pray in my heart that anyone that reads this is healing.

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Hi Mousse. Welcome to the forum. I can understand the anger. I was angry at myself for starting Paxil. When my doctor prescribed it, I had no intention of taking it and left it sitting for a month. Then one day I said "what the heck, maybe it'll make me feel better". I was SO CLOSE to not even taking it. I should've gone with my first instinct.

 

I had to let it go though. Even the anger at my Doctor and the Big Pharma. I turned the anger into determination to do all I can to stop this from happening to others. And help others where I can. But I still am in need of help too.

 

This is a good place to be. Good people here that are knowledgeable and supportive.

Taper from Cymbalta, Paxil, Prozac & Antipsychotics finished June 2012.

Xanax 5% Taper - (8/12 - .5 mg) - (9/12 - .45) - (10/12 - .43) - (11/12 - .41) - (12/12 - .38)

My Paxil Website

My Intro

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I know in my heart that going back on Remeron is wrong but I feel so desperate. Desperate for myself and my family. I don't want to be angry but it's so hard remembering what I was and knowing where I am.

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I know in my heart that going back on Remeron is wrong but I feel so desperate. Desperate for myself and my family. I don't want to be angry but it's so hard remembering what I was and knowing where I am.

 

HI Mousse,

 

Welcome.

 

I tapered Remeron very slowly and still had problems so my heart goes out to you.

 

You might want to consider reinstating with the goal of tapering very slowly. So perhaps, going on a low dose wouldn't be such a bad idea. But you're not doing it because of the bogus diagnosis of fibromyalgia.

 

Anyway, hang in there.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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The saddest part is I wasn't mentally healthy on Remeron, I was reclusive and experienced more anxiety problems than I ever had before but it helped me gain weight and sleep.

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Welcome Mousse;

 

I just finished writing my "signature" and it made me wish so badly I had said "hell no!" a long time ago. I feel angry when I think about the trust we put in these doctors to help us function - here we have been scammed in the most heartless way imaginable.

 

You have gotten here though and we are learning how to get through this - together.

 

As I think comp said, you can get back on a dose that will give you some sanity and wean more slowly - a lot more slowly. I have been up and down on my Effexor, but I am not afraid to go back up if I have to so that the withdrawal does not overwhelm me mentally and physically.

 

I am glad that the "fibromyalgia" does not make sense to you - I can't imagine you need any new drugs or labels to go with them. I still have a lot of physical pain - especially at night it is amazing. At least I know what it is and how to manage it. I hope you look at the tapering area of the forum.

 

You are going to get through this, and you are not alone. Crocus

xxxx

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  • Administrator

Hello, Mousse, welcome to our community.

 

After 7 weeks off, going back on a very low dose of Remeron may help, or it may not.

 

This would be a fraction of the full dosage you were taking. This is just to lessen withdrawal, not to get you back on an antidepressant.

 

If a low dose helps, then you can taper more slowly off from there.

 

What was your Remeron dosage?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I was on 30 mg. The last dose was 3.75 for day of the 5 day taper. I was also on a low dose of Valium 2.5 which I discontinued 18 days ago so it's hard to tell what's what.

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  • Administrator

I was on 30 mg. The last dose was 3.75 for day of the 5 day taper. I was also on a low dose of Valium 2.5 which I discontinued 18 days ago so it's hard to tell what's what.

 

Yes, some of your symptoms may be due to benzo withdrawal as well.

 

It's a gamble, but reinstating, say, 7.5mg of Remeron may reduce symptoms. If that works, you might stay on it for a few months then reduce by .5mg every month, depending on whether you get withdrawal symptoms at that rate.

 

This is tricky with Remeron because at a low dose it is noradrenergic, which can exacerbate anxiety, insomnia, etc.

 

Sometimes going back on a low dose works and sometimes it doesn't. Another option is a low dose of Prozac, such as 5mg. You can easily make Prozac liquid or get a prescription for the liquid form for very gradual tapering.

 

If you care to educate your doctors, you might print out these papers for them:

 

Potential adverse effects of discontinuing psychotropic drugs: part 2: antidepressant drugs.

 

Part 4: Benzodiazepine, Glutamate, Opioid, and Stimulant Drugs

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I suffer from anxiety issues. My body weight is low (-100) I don't know if that makes a difference but I'm not sure if my body can continue to handle this stress. I was told prozac might be too stimulating for me.

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  • Administrator

Lexapro is as stimulating or more than Prozac. Who said Prozac would be too stimulating, and on what basis?

 

Did you have adverse reactions to any of the antidepressants you've been on, or did they just not work?

 

It may very well be that you and antidepressants cannot get along anymore, Mousse. Taking any of the drugs again is a risk if you're already hypersensitive from withdrawal syndrome.

 

It's awful that patients have to make these decisions because doctors are so poorly informed.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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There is so much more to this story than I'm sure anyone is interested in. Part of what is going on is my current Dr. as well as two others are unable to decide if a bipolar element exists. I am so afraid of doing anything because no one can give me a definitive answer and I'm not sure myself. I feel trapped by the inability to discern what I'm dealing with. Until this year I would never have thought there could be a bipolar element but I have had two uncontrollable anxiety issues that have sent up a few question marks. Thank-you for caring. It's something to know people I don't know take time to try and help. I am humbled.

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Mousse, as I see it, if you feel inspired, this is exactly the place to post "much more of your story."

 

If you decide to go back on the Remeron in order to taper off it more slowly, do be kind to yourself. Remember you're just trying to help your brain and body adjust as best as you can. Definitely line up your support network.

 

I do wonder if the weight issue hurts you, since I understand many of these drugs are stored in body fat.

 

Does it matter if you're bipolar? If it changes the meds you're taking and you've decided not to take meds, then maybe the labels don't matter. If it changes the strategy in therapy or other coping methods, then I guess it could be useful.

History is approximate; I didn't track my dosages.

 

1995 - started zoloft/sertraline for depression

1995-2008 - sertraline ranged from 100-200mg, may have gone as high as 250mg

2006 - 2009 - added welbutrin/budeprion SR, 150 mg

sometime in 2009-2010 - stopped budeprion c/t

sometime around 2009-2010, Tapered down sertraline w/o guidance to 50 mg, then 25mg.

~ feb 2010, stopped sertraline.

~ Apr 2010, resumed 25mg low dose (really bad business trip)

Oct 2010, stopped sertraline

Jan 2011 - another bad business trip "breaks" my sleep.

 

current issues include insomnia, anxiety, GI distress, depression.

Taking multivitamins, Vitamin D, fish oil, Chinese herbs, ~ 0.5mg melatonin in the evening.

Going to therapy and acupuncture once a week.

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  • Administrator

Mousse, diagnosis of any psychiatric condition, particularly bipolar disorder, is difficult. I would take that with a big grain of salt.

 

You started out with PMDD diagnosed by a GP. There was a big fad for prescribing antidepressants for this for a while. You may not have had this either, or you might have been able to make a lifestyle change for it rather than taking medication.

 

Are they thinking you're bipolar because antidepressants haven't helped? That alone does not mean you're bipolar, it may mean your nervous system doesn't get along with antidepressants. They're not effective for everyone.

 

Complicating the issue is that antidepressants can cause some people to display symptoms that might be interpreted as bipolar -- but they're side effects of the drugs, not bipolar disorder. However, this gets misdiagnosed all the time and people then are put on cocktails of medications that also cause bad reactions.

 

It sounds to me like your doctors are guessing -- they do this all the time -- and mystified by your withdrawal reactions, which include waves of what we call neuro-anxiety.

 

Might I suggest you phone Dr. David Allen in Bartlett, Tennessee (see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/988-recommended-doctors-therapists-or-clinics/page__view__findpost__p__10511) and either arrange to see him for a second opinion, if you can, or ask him for a referral to a colleague near you? You can say you learned about him through me, he knows me.

 

About the body fat -- that's a red herring. It doesn't matter if the meds are stored in body fat. If you're tapering, that just means the drug is released slowly from body fat. After a while, it's completely out of your body. What remains is how it's remodeled your nervous system.

 

However, Mousse, since you're so small, it's entirely possible you've been overdosed with psychiatric medications from the very first, and they've been causing adverse effects.

 

If I were you, I would definitely aim for getting off all psychiatric medications so you can sort out what's an adverse effect and what's not.

 

Back to the mini-dose of Remeron -- as Ajay says, this is not to medicate your perhaps mythical psychiatric disorder, but to enable more tapering. I have to say I don't have high confidence in this because low doses of Remeron are activating and you already have withdrawal anxiety, which might be made worse.

 

There are not too many options for treating prolonged withdrawal symptoms. You'll have to be strong to enable them to resolve over time. You will find support here for that. But it's unlikely you'll find any help from doctors for it -- they just don't get it.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Hey Mousse,

 

Welcome to the board. I am really sad to hear about what you are going through currently.

 

I am an anxiety sufferer myself and have had a lot of stops (and then starts) over the years with all sorts of Drugs. I also was a very heavy drinker for a number of years and occasional street drug user.

 

I tapered, too rapidly, effexor and am still feeling a lot of the effects. But, years before, I stopped taking a benzo cold-turkey, in that instance klonopin, and that had a hugely negative effect on me as well.

 

Reductions in both caused massive anxiety spikes and anxiety was my original problem. I also experienced a lot of isolation on the drugs, that and a whole lot more dysfunction, so I understand your frustration. I get all of this misery and the drugs never even worked in the first place.

 

It's a shame but it's true that most doctors aren't very helpful at understanding (nevermind undoing) the damage they've done with their Rx pad. It's a shame that you may have to educate them a bit and give some guidance. I hope you have a compassionate doctor willing to listen with an open mind.

 

Again, I am sorry you're going through all of this right now.

 

One positive note: I've been on this board from about the beginning and the good news is that feelings don't last forever. Over time, even if there are huge challenges, you can get back to you and live life. A lot of us, after years of Drugging, hardly remember what life's like and discovering again (or for the first time) is a bittersweet joys in this process.

 

Lastly, I'd recommend you try your best to avoid forecasting as it can quickly spiral to catastrophising. As an anxiety sufferer, I understand the power of uncertainty. One of the hardest things for me when times are tough is not knowing when they'll get better/how bad they'll get. I've learned that I can't predict these things and that dwelling on the things I don't know tends not to be good for me. In your case, things are bad today but they won't be bad forever. This is a terrific place to find good information and support in your process so please read and share as much as you can.

 

I'm Alex, by the way. Nice to meet you, Mousse.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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There is so much more to this story than I'm sure anyone is interested in. Part of what is going on is my current Dr. as well as two others are unable to decide if a bipolar element exists. I am so afraid of doing anything because no one can give me a definitive answer and I'm not sure myself. I feel trapped by the inability to discern what I'm dealing with. Until this year I would never have thought there could be a bipolar element but I have had two uncontrollable anxiety issues that have sent up a few question marks. Thank-you for caring. It's something to know people I don't know take time to try and help. I am humbled.

 

I'm interested in the whole story, actually.

 

I really hope you took what Alto said and let it marinate a bit in your mind.

 

Doctors in mental health are lost in space right now. They simply do not know what they are doing. This is a gross generalization and, sadly, a largely accurate one.

 

Of course you have anxiety! You just moreorless cold-turkey'd Remeron after being on a host of SSRIs for 17 years consecutive yrs before that. Plus you just cold stopped a benzo as well if I understand your chronology. Mousse, if you were gonna bake a cake called 'anxiety' your Rx timeline would make a pretty reliable recipe.

 

Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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Once again your kindness towards a stranger humbles me. Thank-you for your words of kindness and compassion. I am going to try and let my body heal - I hope you will continue to support me as my network has grown smaller. It's hard for those who haven't gone through this to understand what it is. By the way my name is Cindy.

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Of course we will support you, Cindy. That's what this site is for. Most of us are in the exact same situation -- no one understands what we're going through and the doctors aren't any help.

 

Please feel free to ask questions. There's a lot of information posted in the Symptoms area in which you may be interested.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Yes, concentration difficulty is a withdrawal symptom.

 

Are you taking fish oil? See Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

In general, fish oil helps the nervous system to recover. This may help you.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I have high histamine levels that make me unable to tolerate fish oil as well as a lot of different foods and supplements. I don't know how long my body can take the stress it's under without shutting down.

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The withdrawal stress can be very bad. Many of us have had similar thoughts. It's one minute at a time, one step at a time, Mousse. You'll get through this.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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There is so much more to this story than I'm sure anyone is interested in.

 

This is, in part why I am here. To share my story and to hear yours. We can lend credibility to each other that is otherwise lost on a broken health care system. My story is a long one and attempts to write it out are often trauma in an of itself, but the more I read, write and move forward the more I understand there are hundreds of thousands of us going through these same problems. They are problems we did not create either, albeit to be trusting in our doctors.

 

I see that you have a lot of things to consider in the decisions you make about what to do. I can be overwhelming and I hope you can be gentle with yourself in this process. You are worth it - we all are. Crocus

xxxx

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My weight is such a concern right now. The foods I can tolerate off of Remeron and an antihistamine are few. I'm not sure which way to go and my body is hurting so badly.

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  • Administrator

Which foods can you tolerate? What happens when you eat something else?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I can tolerate apples, yams, greens, broccoli, green beens, sweet potatoes, chicken, steak ,quinoa, rice. I have a true wheat allergy, but most other foods cause rashes or headaches. Milk products are a problem also.

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  • Administrator

Interesting. Some people are doing better on a restricted diet, see SCD/GAPS/Paleo Diets

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Mousse, I have a wheat allergy as well, and I sympathize. It's a very tricky grain to avoid.

 

How about nuts? If you can tolerate them, they're a potential source of fat & protein....

History is approximate; I didn't track my dosages.

 

1995 - started zoloft/sertraline for depression

1995-2008 - sertraline ranged from 100-200mg, may have gone as high as 250mg

2006 - 2009 - added welbutrin/budeprion SR, 150 mg

sometime in 2009-2010 - stopped budeprion c/t

sometime around 2009-2010, Tapered down sertraline w/o guidance to 50 mg, then 25mg.

~ feb 2010, stopped sertraline.

~ Apr 2010, resumed 25mg low dose (really bad business trip)

Oct 2010, stopped sertraline

Jan 2011 - another bad business trip "breaks" my sleep.

 

current issues include insomnia, anxiety, GI distress, depression.

Taking multivitamins, Vitamin D, fish oil, Chinese herbs, ~ 0.5mg melatonin in the evening.

Going to therapy and acupuncture once a week.

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I have decided to take a low dose of Remeron again to try and find some relief. I am scared but I don't think there is another way for me right now. I am praying that the damage that's been done will be able to heal if I can get my brain calmed down. I wish I was strong in mind and body to do this without restarting but I am getting weaker by the day-menatlly and physically. I could really use some support right now. Thank-you to all who read this and care. I will keep you all in my prayers.

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  • Administrator

Mousse, please let us know how you're doing.

 

And please call Dr. Bartlett.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Hi Mousse;

 

I hope that the low dose Remeron helps. For what it is worth, I think that is probably what I would be doing if I were going through what you describe.

 

You can do this. I hope you stay in close touch here - this is a good place to talk with others who understand.

 

I also have to avoid dairy and gluten. I have become pretty sensitive since changing my diet and weaning and I feel much better without those things. I follow the "Eat Right For Your Blood Type" diet which is, not a diet per se, but a way to feed my body for the best health. I eat what I call at "85%" which means once in a while I am not strictly adhering but most of the time I do.

 

I eat a lot of nuts and things like Spirutein for good protein sources. I also take protein isolate as it helps calm my system.

 

Hope to hear from you soon. Crocus

xxxx

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I have tried calling Dr. DAvid Allen in Bartlett, TN. He is only in the office on Thurs. The receptionist was confused as to how he could help but said she would pass on the message.

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  • Administrator

Mousse, let him know you got his name from Altostrata.

 

You can also contact him through Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/experts/david-m-allen-md

 

This might be a better way, he'll answer this mail throughout the week.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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