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Marsupial: Am I too old to get psych drug free?


Marsupial

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Have been on this stuff for only six months...
60mg Mirtazipene (in doses raised from 15mg. In 15 mg. increments) and 50 mg Serequol.
I want off, but am aware that this stuff mucks up your brain.
Temporararily or permanently?

I am 81...what hope have I at this stage of life?
I could cheerfully murder the psych who put me on these and now that I'm so much more informed re both depression and the meds...
Help!

Edited by scallywag
tags

June 2016: Diagnosed with first-ever depression at age 80 and hospitalised for seven days

Discharged (well...discharged self actually) with meds. 30mg Mirtazipene 50mg Serequol.

Mirtazipene dose raised to 45mg late August.

GP raised it again to 60mg less than a week later.

Had major surgery (shoulder replacement) September 21 and subsequently depression worse than ever.

Case worker added Effexor late September but I couldn't take the stuff...turned me into a log of wood and completely deadened any emotion. Took only two doses and quit. No way was I going to make myself feel like that. Basket case!

Case worker wanted to raise Mirtazipene to 75 but I didn't take the increased dose. Decided instead to taper off the lot.

Reduced Mirtazipene by 7.5 to 52.8 Nov. 8th and another 7.5 (to 45) Nov. 19th.

Reduced Serequol by 12.5 (To 35.5) Nov. 12.

So far so good...but on advice from scallywag will now reduce one med at a time and at four week intervals.

Serequol first...research suggest that Serequol is the nastiest.

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

Marsupial -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)

 

Antidepressants like Remeron (mirtazapine) do "muck up" your CNS (central nervous system), but it is temporary. Slow gradual dose tapering is the best way to minimize the risk of symptoms. Please read these topics for more information relevant to your situation:

 

Before you begin tapering -- what you need to know

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-18 months particularly?

  • Any drugs prior to that can just be listed with start and stop years.
  • You don't need to include symptoms or diagnoses other than the initial condition that led to prescribing the first drug.
  • We ask for this information in your signature so that we can see it at a glance. A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs.
  • You can find instructions in this topic: Please put your withdrawal history in signature
  • If you are using a phone or other mobile device to post on this site, to create a signature you need to use the "full" or desktop version. Instructions for accessing the full site are in Post #8 andPost #9
I hope you'll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation. I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but am glad that you found us.

 

Please read the topics I've linked above. If you have any questions about how to apply them to your situation, please post your questions here so that all your information stays in one place.

 

Thanks for posting. Let us know how things go for you.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to post

Thank for your response scallywag.

Sorry, but can't get my head around the signature thing so I'll summarize here...

 

Diagnosed with severe depression last June.

Never suffered depression before or previously taken a psych drug in my life.

Hospitalized but flew the coop after seven days, leaving with scripts for 30mg Mirtazipene and 50 mg Serequol.

Care taken over by an aged care (ahem) mental health team that liases with my GP to issue scripts.

Between them they ramped the dosage Mirtazipene up to 60mg.

Didn't feel any damn better so when they said, "up you go again...75ml" I thought 'stuff this' and didn't take it.

(Not that I told them that).

It probably didn't help that I underwent major surgery (shoulder replacement) in mid September.

Depression subsequently got worse...near couldn't get out of bed.

Then in the space of two weeks I met FOUR people who had had depression self-limit in between 8 and 12 months.

Decided to give nature (plus exercise, meditation, kicking sugar and therapy with a psychologist I really like) a chance.

Research revealed just how toxic the drugs are and I want off.

My mother lived until she was 96 and I don't want my next (possible) 15 years to be as I am now.

It just wouldn't be worth living.

 

Cut Mirtazipene by 7.5ml two weeks ago and was planning to taper.

Ditto Serequol...cut that back to 37.5 at the same time.

 

Reading this forum has been both enlightening and terrifying...wondering if I can actually LIVE long enough to get clean!

June 2016: Diagnosed with first-ever depression at age 80 and hospitalised for seven days

Discharged (well...discharged self actually) with meds. 30mg Mirtazipene 50mg Serequol.

Mirtazipene dose raised to 45mg late August.

GP raised it again to 60mg less than a week later.

Had major surgery (shoulder replacement) September 21 and subsequently depression worse than ever.

Case worker added Effexor late September but I couldn't take the stuff...turned me into a log of wood and completely deadened any emotion. Took only two doses and quit. No way was I going to make myself feel like that. Basket case!

Case worker wanted to raise Mirtazipene to 75 but I didn't take the increased dose. Decided instead to taper off the lot.

Reduced Mirtazipene by 7.5 to 52.8 Nov. 8th and another 7.5 (to 45) Nov. 19th.

Reduced Serequol by 12.5 (To 35.5) Nov. 12.

So far so good...but on advice from scallywag will now reduce one med at a time and at four week intervals.

Serequol first...research suggest that Serequol is the nastiest.

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

We suggest that people taper one medication at a time, reducing by no more than 10% of dose at the time, and holding at that dose for 4 weeks before the next reduction.

 

It's hard to predict how anyone will respond to a dose reduction so it's best to collect data on your own process of recovery. Please keep notes on paper of your symptoms and the times of your dose(s). This post has a useful format for a daily log:
Take notes of doses and symptoms
 

You may need to hold steady at your current doses of mirtazapine and Seroquel for more than 4 weeks. Pay attention to your symptoms.

 

Question: Are you using a desktop/laptop computer or a mobile device to access the site?

 

 

From what you've posted, here's what I've inferred or copied. These are the details that are important for your signature.
 
June  2016: Diagnosed with severe depression, Hospitalized but flew the coop after seven days,
Medications prescribed: 30mg Mirtazapine (liquid, 1 ml = 1 mg) and 50 mg Seroquel
__________ [month/year] increased mirtazapine to 60 mg, suggested increase to 75 mg which I did not take
Sept. 2016: major surgery, shoulder replacement, general anesthesia and analgesics (please specify opiates, NSAID, other)
early Nov 2016: reduced mirtazapine to 52.5 ml ( of 7.5ml); reduced Seroquel to 37.5 ( of 12.5mg)

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to post

Thank you again scallywag.

I'll take your advice re tapering rate.

And do one at a time.

Serequol first...from my research that seems the most potent. And b*****y nasty.

 

I'm communicating via iPad and would happily post the medication details in my signature if it's do-able via tablet.

Us marsupials (especially we elderly versions) are better at clinging to eucalyptus trees munching leaves than battling tech stuff!

 

You got it all right!

Can't recall dates now but took 30mg (tablet) for weeks from the beginning of June until case worker upped it to 45ml but within days

GP upped it to 60. Been taking that for about 12 weeks (the surgery was mid way through).

Now case worker wants increase to 75.

Not on your nelly!

Instead, reduced twice in 7.5 increments. The last time only 24 hours ago.

 

Post op (which was on September 21) got three jabs of morphine and more Endone than I can remember.

Got discharged with 20 Endone tabs but haven't touched it.

 

Thank you again for taking the time to reply...it means a lot.

 

PS: I DO admire your Prime Minister and would gladly swap him for ours...he's a complete muppet!

June 2016: Diagnosed with first-ever depression at age 80 and hospitalised for seven days

Discharged (well...discharged self actually) with meds. 30mg Mirtazipene 50mg Serequol.

Mirtazipene dose raised to 45mg late August.

GP raised it again to 60mg less than a week later.

Had major surgery (shoulder replacement) September 21 and subsequently depression worse than ever.

Case worker added Effexor late September but I couldn't take the stuff...turned me into a log of wood and completely deadened any emotion. Took only two doses and quit. No way was I going to make myself feel like that. Basket case!

Case worker wanted to raise Mirtazipene to 75 but I didn't take the increased dose. Decided instead to taper off the lot.

Reduced Mirtazipene by 7.5 to 52.8 Nov. 8th and another 7.5 (to 45) Nov. 19th.

Reduced Serequol by 12.5 (To 35.5) Nov. 12.

So far so good...but on advice from scallywag will now reduce one med at a time and at four week intervals.

Serequol first...research suggest that Serequol is the nastiest.

Link to post

Good luck, Marsupial - you sound a plucky bu**er, still with the courage of your convictions at 81!!

 

I am 71 and the title of your thread got me to read it.  Same thought has crossed my mind.

 

Never mind, stick at it!  You sound like a lot of us in Scotland - could start a fight in an empty hoose!

Born 1945. 

1999 - First Effexor/Venlafaxine

2016 Withdrawal research. Effexor.  13Jul - 212.5mg;  6Aug - 200.0mg;  24Aug - 187.5mg;  13Sep - 175.0mg;  3Oct - 162.5mg;  26Oct - 150mg 

2017  9Jan - 150.00mg;  23Mar - 137.50mg;  24Apr - 125.00mg;  31May - 112.50mg holding;  3Sep - 100.00mg;  20Sep - 93.75mg;  20Oct - 87.5mg;  12Nov - 81.25mg;  13 Dec - 75.00mg

2018  18Jan - 69.1mg; 16Feb - 62.5mg; 16March - 57.5mg (-8%); 22Apr - 56.3mg(-2%); CRASHED - Updose 29May - 62.5mg; Updose - 1Jul - 75.0mg. Updose - 2Aug - 87.5mg. Updose - 27Aug - 100.0mg. Updose - 11Oct 112.5mg. Updose - 6Nov 125.00mg

2019 Updoses 19 Jan - 150.0mg. 1April - 162.5mg. 24 April - Feeling better - doing tasks, getting outside.  7 May - usual depression questionnaire gives "probably no depression" result.

Supps/Vits  Omega 3;  Chelated Magnesium;  Prebiotics/Probiotics, Vit D3. 

Link to post

Hi there! 
The taper does not have to be horrifying, some people get off easier than others. Maybe you won´t be having such a hard time at all! 
I don´t know if this is true but a doctor once told me that quitting ADs gets harder when you already took them once. When I first took Cipralex many many years ago (for about one year) I didn´nt experience any WD. Good luck to you! I am amazed that you are writing in this forum at your age:)) My mum (who is way younger than you are) would never even find the login :D 

2005-2006: Cipralex 5 mg

2009-2010: Cipralex 5 mg

2012-2015: Cipralex 5mg, 10mg 

tapered 10mg-7.5mg-5mg-2,5-0 (I always waited for a few weeks on the current dosage until I felt stable. Steps were too big I realized too late)

Completely drug free since August 2015

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

Marsupial -- to create a signature using a phone or tablet, you need to switch from the mobile version of the site to the full or "desktop" version.

Detailed instructions for phones/iPads are in two consecutive posts in the signature thread starting with this one  Post #8.

 

p.s. Although my sympathies and philosophy is far closer to Trudeau than our previous PM, I was skeptical about Trudeau's abilities before and during last year's elections. I have been pleased with his stands and the consultative approach he and his ministers have taken. I hope that we aren't caught up in the wave of neo-neo-conservative and exclusionary nationalism that's rocking many boats around the world right now.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to post

Thank you scallywag..actually (to complete astonishment) managed to do the signature thing!

And Peng and Pepita...don't be too astonished by the '81'.

Just means I've been around long enough to learn more stuff.

 

PS: scallywag...our PM was a moderate liberal...until he undermined and ousted the elected PM and snatched the job.

Seems he sold his soul to get it...he is now completely muzzled by the hard night neo conservatives he 'did deals with' and has backed away from everything he believed in and championed before...marriage equality, republicanism, voluntary euthanasia......

June 2016: Diagnosed with first-ever depression at age 80 and hospitalised for seven days

Discharged (well...discharged self actually) with meds. 30mg Mirtazipene 50mg Serequol.

Mirtazipene dose raised to 45mg late August.

GP raised it again to 60mg less than a week later.

Had major surgery (shoulder replacement) September 21 and subsequently depression worse than ever.

Case worker added Effexor late September but I couldn't take the stuff...turned me into a log of wood and completely deadened any emotion. Took only two doses and quit. No way was I going to make myself feel like that. Basket case!

Case worker wanted to raise Mirtazipene to 75 but I didn't take the increased dose. Decided instead to taper off the lot.

Reduced Mirtazipene by 7.5 to 52.8 Nov. 8th and another 7.5 (to 45) Nov. 19th.

Reduced Serequol by 12.5 (To 35.5) Nov. 12.

So far so good...but on advice from scallywag will now reduce one med at a time and at four week intervals.

Serequol first...research suggest that Serequol is the nastiest.

Link to post

YOU ARE AN AMAZING INSPIRATION FOR US ALL.... so very impressed.... hope you have a smooth withdrawal

THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD = NOW only on TRILEPTAL 450mg began w/900mg 7/16 -- off LITHIUM 600mg (sometimes 300mg 5/15 -11/16 took 2 months to taper) .... XANAX 2 mg for 2 weeks but addicted in 6/16 tapered 7/16-9/16 JUMPED 9/30 (believe have kindling from previous benzos)
6 meds nightly for INSOMNIA includes XANAX .. BELSOMRA 20mg c/t 8/20/16 off & on for a yr ZANAFLEX 8 mg /SILENOR 6mg/PROZASIN 15 mg/DOXEPIN 50 mg on all nightly 2 months 6/16 - 7/16 except for silenor (year) wd ALL 8/16-9/16 w/pdoc help
c/t KLONOPIN .5mg which began INSOMNIA end of 3/15 after on for 4 months also horrible sound& light sensitivity sometimes took 2 or 3 reinstated & then c/t@hospital 5/15 on TEMPAZEPAM/SEROQUEL/LITHIUM when left hospital tolerance to temazepam after 1 month given ATIVAN in hospital& later
SEROQUEL started @ 200 mg and overnight to 800 mg had horrible akathasisia & rash DEPAKOTE 1000 mg off after few wks ALL I COULD ENDURE
then AMBIEN side effects & tolerance on for few months 5/15 - 8/15 and then again 2 mos 5/16 LATUDA 3/16 on days BAD/GEODON 4/16 on less 2 weeks BAD AKATHASIA/ZYPREXA bad mouth shaking almost 24/7 off & on few months in 2015 & again in 2016
trazodon/remeron/gabapentin/sonata/lunesta did nothing to help INSOMNIA so got off after few days - also short time SAPHRIS BAD 
MEDICATION SENSITIVE & have paradoxical side effects -- CANNOT TAKE BENZOS, ATYPICAL-ANTIPSYCHOTICS, ANTI-DEPRESSANTS
PAST prior to 2 yrs on Prozac even1/4 pill caused BAD ANXIETY, CELEXA OK, Abilify, Pristiq, Lamictal, Paxil BAD - more but can't remember
Link to post

Dear yyeehhaaww...

If there are any inspirations around here it's you!

To go through a drug cocktail battering like that and still have the generosity of character to wish a complete stranger well speaks volumes (all good) for who and what you are.

 

Am SO grateful that I couldn't stomach the Effexor or I'd be tottering on the same 'drug cocktail' brink.

I'm prettty angry with the hospital psych who put me on the Mirtazipene and Serequol...

I took them only because I was assured that you could come straight off both without any withdrawals.

Was she deluded or lying? Has to be one or the other and I have no answers.

 

What does it say of HER character that the morning I left hospital she popped her head around my door saying, "I'm just saying goodbye". A later financial statement from my private health care provider revealed that she had billed them $125 for that 'consultation'.

June 2016: Diagnosed with first-ever depression at age 80 and hospitalised for seven days

Discharged (well...discharged self actually) with meds. 30mg Mirtazipene 50mg Serequol.

Mirtazipene dose raised to 45mg late August.

GP raised it again to 60mg less than a week later.

Had major surgery (shoulder replacement) September 21 and subsequently depression worse than ever.

Case worker added Effexor late September but I couldn't take the stuff...turned me into a log of wood and completely deadened any emotion. Took only two doses and quit. No way was I going to make myself feel like that. Basket case!

Case worker wanted to raise Mirtazipene to 75 but I didn't take the increased dose. Decided instead to taper off the lot.

Reduced Mirtazipene by 7.5 to 52.8 Nov. 8th and another 7.5 (to 45) Nov. 19th.

Reduced Serequol by 12.5 (To 35.5) Nov. 12.

So far so good...but on advice from scallywag will now reduce one med at a time and at four week intervals.

Serequol first...research suggest that Serequol is the nastiest.

Link to post

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww  thank you,...

YOU are such a dear.  

 

I, too have the same question about the last pdoc I fired who told me i could not get addicted to xanax if I took it the same time every day .. mine at night for sleep.... WHAT?????  really????  deluded or lying?????... the sad thing for me is I took him at his word because I was so very desperate for sleep.

 

Like you, I skated by effexor also.  When I was hurting from all my withdrawals this past August from belsomra, silenor, prozasin, zanaflex, doxepin and THE BIGGIE --- XANAX, i went into pdoc who was helping me get off of them and asked for an anti-depressant.  She was helping me withdraw from those 6 during August and September, but I still tweaked even going slower on the xanax.  I had done about 1 mg myself before August over a 2 month period of xanax waiting for my appointment to see her.  Of course she gave me one.  I went and filled it and then took 1 and came home , but this time I read about it on the internet.  It was Cymbalta and I found there is a Cymbalta Discontinuance Syndrome.  Wasted a copay, but never took another.  Then in September, she wanted me to take Effexor.  I KNEW i could not and would not take another psych drug. I am thankful I have not been harmed by any more than I have.  It truly has been a living bad benzo withdrawal hell madness with klonopin c/t and then to top it off with xanax a year later.  

 

I have now had them enter into my medical records what medicines I am allergic to... benzodiazepines, anti-depressants, and atypical-antipsychotics.  I will never take another one.  After the benzos, the horrible akathasia I experienced from seroquel and geodon were horrific.  When coming off 800 yes 800 mg of seroquel plus 1000 depakote, my husband and I were in the car... of course, he was driving.  I had to literally have him stop the car almost every other block so I could get out of the car and walk around.  I felt like a caged animal coming out of its skin.  Like you, I left the hospital instead mine was 200 mg seroquel for insomnia but they tried to tell me I was depressed.  Then the idiot pdoc that I fired after 6 weeks increased it to 800 mg almost immediately not even working me up to it gradually.  Stupidly I went along because of my insomnia sleep deprivation that was totally from Klonopin benzo withdrawal.  

 

Take very good care of yourself, M.  You can and will do this.  You are a wonderful survivor.from all the psych drug madness.  

THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD = NOW only on TRILEPTAL 450mg began w/900mg 7/16 -- off LITHIUM 600mg (sometimes 300mg 5/15 -11/16 took 2 months to taper) .... XANAX 2 mg for 2 weeks but addicted in 6/16 tapered 7/16-9/16 JUMPED 9/30 (believe have kindling from previous benzos)
6 meds nightly for INSOMNIA includes XANAX .. BELSOMRA 20mg c/t 8/20/16 off & on for a yr ZANAFLEX 8 mg /SILENOR 6mg/PROZASIN 15 mg/DOXEPIN 50 mg on all nightly 2 months 6/16 - 7/16 except for silenor (year) wd ALL 8/16-9/16 w/pdoc help
c/t KLONOPIN .5mg which began INSOMNIA end of 3/15 after on for 4 months also horrible sound& light sensitivity sometimes took 2 or 3 reinstated & then c/t@hospital 5/15 on TEMPAZEPAM/SEROQUEL/LITHIUM when left hospital tolerance to temazepam after 1 month given ATIVAN in hospital& later
SEROQUEL started @ 200 mg and overnight to 800 mg had horrible akathasisia & rash DEPAKOTE 1000 mg off after few wks ALL I COULD ENDURE
then AMBIEN side effects & tolerance on for few months 5/15 - 8/15 and then again 2 mos 5/16 LATUDA 3/16 on days BAD/GEODON 4/16 on less 2 weeks BAD AKATHASIA/ZYPREXA bad mouth shaking almost 24/7 off & on few months in 2015 & again in 2016
trazodon/remeron/gabapentin/sonata/lunesta did nothing to help INSOMNIA so got off after few days - also short time SAPHRIS BAD 
MEDICATION SENSITIVE & have paradoxical side effects -- CANNOT TAKE BENZOS, ATYPICAL-ANTIPSYCHOTICS, ANTI-DEPRESSANTS
PAST prior to 2 yrs on Prozac even1/4 pill caused BAD ANXIETY, CELEXA OK, Abilify, Pristiq, Lamictal, Paxil BAD - more but can't remember
Link to post

Oh, another thought... it is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sad that doctors harm us ... and care for the money they make off of us rather than to help us.  Then there is the evil big pharma behind them putting so very much money into their pockets.  Dr. Peter Breggin and David Healey have it so right.  

THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD = NOW only on TRILEPTAL 450mg began w/900mg 7/16 -- off LITHIUM 600mg (sometimes 300mg 5/15 -11/16 took 2 months to taper) .... XANAX 2 mg for 2 weeks but addicted in 6/16 tapered 7/16-9/16 JUMPED 9/30 (believe have kindling from previous benzos)
6 meds nightly for INSOMNIA includes XANAX .. BELSOMRA 20mg c/t 8/20/16 off & on for a yr ZANAFLEX 8 mg /SILENOR 6mg/PROZASIN 15 mg/DOXEPIN 50 mg on all nightly 2 months 6/16 - 7/16 except for silenor (year) wd ALL 8/16-9/16 w/pdoc help
c/t KLONOPIN .5mg which began INSOMNIA end of 3/15 after on for 4 months also horrible sound& light sensitivity sometimes took 2 or 3 reinstated & then c/t@hospital 5/15 on TEMPAZEPAM/SEROQUEL/LITHIUM when left hospital tolerance to temazepam after 1 month given ATIVAN in hospital& later
SEROQUEL started @ 200 mg and overnight to 800 mg had horrible akathasisia & rash DEPAKOTE 1000 mg off after few wks ALL I COULD ENDURE
then AMBIEN side effects & tolerance on for few months 5/15 - 8/15 and then again 2 mos 5/16 LATUDA 3/16 on days BAD/GEODON 4/16 on less 2 weeks BAD AKATHASIA/ZYPREXA bad mouth shaking almost 24/7 off & on few months in 2015 & again in 2016
trazodon/remeron/gabapentin/sonata/lunesta did nothing to help INSOMNIA so got off after few days - also short time SAPHRIS BAD 
MEDICATION SENSITIVE & have paradoxical side effects -- CANNOT TAKE BENZOS, ATYPICAL-ANTIPSYCHOTICS, ANTI-DEPRESSANTS
PAST prior to 2 yrs on Prozac even1/4 pill caused BAD ANXIETY, CELEXA OK, Abilify, Pristiq, Lamictal, Paxil BAD - more but can't remember
Link to post

Maybe this will encourage other older forum members...

Got Mirtazipine down to 45mg two weeks ago.

Will hold it there until I can get free of completely Serequol...estimated end of Jan at the rate of taper

 

But...sitting here depressed until light bulb moment.

 

THIS IS ORDINARY REACTIVE DEPRESSION; NOT THE ILLNESS!

I'm miserable in case I've wrecked my brain with this poison and consequently ruined what's left of my life.

Some of the stuff I've read about Serequol frightens me to death, plus I'm going to have to keep bombarding the brain with Mirtazipene until I'm clear of Serequol.

 

I think what I'm trying to say is that this is plain, ordinary emotional depression for good reasons and not the SICKNESS.

June 2016: Diagnosed with first-ever depression at age 80 and hospitalised for seven days

Discharged (well...discharged self actually) with meds. 30mg Mirtazipene 50mg Serequol.

Mirtazipene dose raised to 45mg late August.

GP raised it again to 60mg less than a week later.

Had major surgery (shoulder replacement) September 21 and subsequently depression worse than ever.

Case worker added Effexor late September but I couldn't take the stuff...turned me into a log of wood and completely deadened any emotion. Took only two doses and quit. No way was I going to make myself feel like that. Basket case!

Case worker wanted to raise Mirtazipene to 75 but I didn't take the increased dose. Decided instead to taper off the lot.

Reduced Mirtazipene by 7.5 to 52.8 Nov. 8th and another 7.5 (to 45) Nov. 19th.

Reduced Serequol by 12.5 (To 35.5) Nov. 12.

So far so good...but on advice from scallywag will now reduce one med at a time and at four week intervals.

Serequol first...research suggest that Serequol is the nastiest.

Link to post

Hi there! 

The taper does not have to be horrifying, some people get off easier than others. Maybe you won´t be having such a hard time at all! 

I don´t know if this is true but a doctor once told me that quitting ADs gets harder when you already took them once. When I first took Cipralex many many years ago (for about one year) I didn´nt experience any WD. Good luck to you! I am amazed that you are writing in this forum at your age:)) My mum (who is way younger than you are) would never even find the login :D

hi,

 

i am ok with this

 

if it is the first time you take brain meds, i know old people whom doctors stopped very quick the med and no withdrawal, just short suffering

 

it does not seem function for people who take a second time meds

 

but yes, the first time some people taper 3 weeks and are fine young or old

 

the problem is,  it is not always true...

for anxiety 

12 years paxil - cold turkey 1,5 month - switch celexa 1 year taper; total 13 years on brain meds 

67 years old - 9 years  med free

 

in protracted withdrawal

rigidity standing and walking, dryness gougerot-szoegren, sleep deteriorate,

function as have a lack of nerves, improving have been very little 

 

Link to post

Thank you Stan...good ofyou to take the time to be so encouraging.

Yep...never taken antidepressants or Serequol before June 2016.

 

I think the point I was trying to make in the post is that you can be just plain depressed (the feeling) as distinct from depressed (the illness).

The danger is that once you get the diagnosis, there's a tendency to interpret any depression you experience as the illness.

June 2016: Diagnosed with first-ever depression at age 80 and hospitalised for seven days

Discharged (well...discharged self actually) with meds. 30mg Mirtazipene 50mg Serequol.

Mirtazipene dose raised to 45mg late August.

GP raised it again to 60mg less than a week later.

Had major surgery (shoulder replacement) September 21 and subsequently depression worse than ever.

Case worker added Effexor late September but I couldn't take the stuff...turned me into a log of wood and completely deadened any emotion. Took only two doses and quit. No way was I going to make myself feel like that. Basket case!

Case worker wanted to raise Mirtazipene to 75 but I didn't take the increased dose. Decided instead to taper off the lot.

Reduced Mirtazipene by 7.5 to 52.8 Nov. 8th and another 7.5 (to 45) Nov. 19th.

Reduced Serequol by 12.5 (To 35.5) Nov. 12.

So far so good...but on advice from scallywag will now reduce one med at a time and at four week intervals.

Serequol first...research suggest that Serequol is the nastiest.

Link to post

Hi, I appreciated learning your story. I'm 62 and feel like I might never be well again! I'm feeling my years right now.

 

My biggest worry about Remeron was tremors that started after just a few weeks on it... now that I'm off of it, I'm praying that they go away soon. I was only on it for 3&1/2 months, so my hope is that this will all disappear quickly. The tremors make me feel very vulnerable. They're "action" tremors, so no involuntary movements - but I can feel them and I can demonstrate them to anyone who's interested, not that I tell many people about it.

 

And I know what you mean about a plain reaction depression. It does help to recognize that. My depression started when my mom died and I moved to a new area - a situational depression.

 

best wishes to you!

QUIT chlonazepam (Klonopin) 8/26/17. My dosage was less than 0.5; hard to measure exactly because I had been reducing by weight. My overall diagnosis is fibromyalgia. I'm 63 yrs old. Feeling great to be free of it!

MICRO TAPERED KLONOPIN BY WEIGHT: 5/26: .241 -- ?/?: .235 -- 7/10: .223 -- 7/24: .221 -- 7/29: .217 -- 8/1: 212 -- 8/6: .208

Switched: 8/13, reduced to 1/2 pill (a .5 pill), maintaining morning dose of weight .069. Kept micro tapering until 8/26/17.

CURURENTLY TAPERING BUSPAR: BUSPAR started in May 2017, currently: 2and1/3 15mg pill = 15+15+5= 35 mgs. Very helpful med. 11/9/17: 25 mgs. (1 and 1/3 15 mg pill)

PREVIOUS: In August 2016, after some stressful life changes, my Klonopin use went up to about 4.0. New dr jerked me down from 4.0 to 1 mg. I'm still suffering from that sudden extreme withdrawal. Plus I was put on and taken off of many other meds those first couple of months: Tizanadine, Remeron, Lexapro, Wellbutrin. A very difficult time in my life.  CURRENT: Cymbalta 60mg, maintaining. I use medical marijuana for pain as needed, usually at night. Don't take it during the day because it just makes me too dopey. I take probiotics.

 

 

 

 

Link to post

Dear flatrock,

Happily, had no (discernible) side effects from Mirtazipine.

No improvement in symptoms though.

Clinicians kept raising the dose (from 15ml. In June to a proposed 75 ml a couple of weeks ago.)

I didn't ever take the 75 ml because decided enough was enough and started titration down in 7.5ml increments at 10 day intervals.

Too fast I think as 10 days after getting down to 45ml. I have pretty relentless diaharrea.

 

Take heart from your brief time on the stuff...I know that the brain remains plastic and self healing oriented right to the end.

You might be onto something with suspecting Augmentin and your nasty illness is a factor in the tremors.

 

Good wishes...and please let's know how you go.

June 2016: Diagnosed with first-ever depression at age 80 and hospitalised for seven days

Discharged (well...discharged self actually) with meds. 30mg Mirtazipene 50mg Serequol.

Mirtazipene dose raised to 45mg late August.

GP raised it again to 60mg less than a week later.

Had major surgery (shoulder replacement) September 21 and subsequently depression worse than ever.

Case worker added Effexor late September but I couldn't take the stuff...turned me into a log of wood and completely deadened any emotion. Took only two doses and quit. No way was I going to make myself feel like that. Basket case!

Case worker wanted to raise Mirtazipene to 75 but I didn't take the increased dose. Decided instead to taper off the lot.

Reduced Mirtazipene by 7.5 to 52.8 Nov. 8th and another 7.5 (to 45) Nov. 19th.

Reduced Serequol by 12.5 (To 35.5) Nov. 12.

So far so good...but on advice from scallywag will now reduce one med at a time and at four week intervals.

Serequol first...research suggest that Serequol is the nastiest.

Link to post

Hey Marsupial, nice to hear back from you! Yeah, the diarrhea is rough. Dr has me on Lomotil, which is very soothing, but is a kind of narcotic too - so I take it sparingly. Just a couple days on Lomotil calms down my system, and then good old Immodium helps.

 

I don't like thinking of the brain as plastic! Sounds stiff! How about playdoh?!?!

QUIT chlonazepam (Klonopin) 8/26/17. My dosage was less than 0.5; hard to measure exactly because I had been reducing by weight. My overall diagnosis is fibromyalgia. I'm 63 yrs old. Feeling great to be free of it!

MICRO TAPERED KLONOPIN BY WEIGHT: 5/26: .241 -- ?/?: .235 -- 7/10: .223 -- 7/24: .221 -- 7/29: .217 -- 8/1: 212 -- 8/6: .208

Switched: 8/13, reduced to 1/2 pill (a .5 pill), maintaining morning dose of weight .069. Kept micro tapering until 8/26/17.

CURURENTLY TAPERING BUSPAR: BUSPAR started in May 2017, currently: 2and1/3 15mg pill = 15+15+5= 35 mgs. Very helpful med. 11/9/17: 25 mgs. (1 and 1/3 15 mg pill)

PREVIOUS: In August 2016, after some stressful life changes, my Klonopin use went up to about 4.0. New dr jerked me down from 4.0 to 1 mg. I'm still suffering from that sudden extreme withdrawal. Plus I was put on and taken off of many other meds those first couple of months: Tizanadine, Remeron, Lexapro, Wellbutrin. A very difficult time in my life.  CURRENT: Cymbalta 60mg, maintaining. I use medical marijuana for pain as needed, usually at night. Don't take it during the day because it just makes me too dopey. I take probiotics.

 

 

 

 

Link to post

Dear flatrock,

Hoping against hope that the diarrhea is resolving. Seems to be...slowly.

I was going to give it until Sunday (Dec. 4th) and the re-instate the dose I last cut back from (52.5 to 45).

That would have been just SO disheartening.

 

At least I know why it hit...it's thanks to this forum that I identified it as a withdrawal symptom. And this site also supplied the info that these can come on 10 days to a fortnight after a dosage reduction. The less things are a mystery the easier they are to endure

I reckon.

 

Play doh if you like but I wasn't thinking HARD plastic the petrochemical but more the dictionary definition of 'plastic' meaning fluid, malleable and very much UNstiff. I got the term from a book you might like and that gives me hope that I've done no irreparable damage with these horrid (and for me totally ineffectual) pharmaceuticals.

 

It's called 'The brain that changes itself' by (I think) Norman Doige.

 

How go the tremors?

June 2016: Diagnosed with first-ever depression at age 80 and hospitalised for seven days

Discharged (well...discharged self actually) with meds. 30mg Mirtazipene 50mg Serequol.

Mirtazipene dose raised to 45mg late August.

GP raised it again to 60mg less than a week later.

Had major surgery (shoulder replacement) September 21 and subsequently depression worse than ever.

Case worker added Effexor late September but I couldn't take the stuff...turned me into a log of wood and completely deadened any emotion. Took only two doses and quit. No way was I going to make myself feel like that. Basket case!

Case worker wanted to raise Mirtazipene to 75 but I didn't take the increased dose. Decided instead to taper off the lot.

Reduced Mirtazipene by 7.5 to 52.8 Nov. 8th and another 7.5 (to 45) Nov. 19th.

Reduced Serequol by 12.5 (To 35.5) Nov. 12.

So far so good...but on advice from scallywag will now reduce one med at a time and at four week intervals.

Serequol first...research suggest that Serequol is the nastiest.

Link to post

Hey Marsupial, if I were you I wouldn't go backwards just because of diarrhea. In my experience so far, it is just what it is. Have you tried Immodium and modifying your diet (less fruits and veggies?). It helps a little. For me, the Augmentin caused diarrhea for the whole 10 days, and I quit the Remeron in the middle of that - so it seems like non-stop runs. argh! Exhausting!

 

Honestly, I knew what you meant about plastic - thanks for the lead to the book - I just have a negative reaction to the word, that it seems so stiff and unyielding. But it's a common usage and will keep my mouth shut about it!

 

I had one moment yesterday when I did not have the tremor. It was quite amazing. I have a certain leg movement I do to test it -- today it's all tremor-y. Oh well. My psych wants me to wait until January to see how it goes, so I'm going to stay calm since he is. Unlike many people here, I do trust doctors in general. Since the tremor started while taking Remeron, I am extremely hopeful that it will go away.

 

I see you're in Australia. I have a friend there, I forget where exactly, I guess you'd call us penpals. We met on a mountain dulcimer website. She and I are both suffering from weird medication issues, so we're a good pair. I just read Bryson's book In a Sunburned Country. Have you read it? 

 

Don't you hate it when you're relaxing and then start to realize you need to go poop, and you try to deny it and then finally have to give in?

QUIT chlonazepam (Klonopin) 8/26/17. My dosage was less than 0.5; hard to measure exactly because I had been reducing by weight. My overall diagnosis is fibromyalgia. I'm 63 yrs old. Feeling great to be free of it!

MICRO TAPERED KLONOPIN BY WEIGHT: 5/26: .241 -- ?/?: .235 -- 7/10: .223 -- 7/24: .221 -- 7/29: .217 -- 8/1: 212 -- 8/6: .208

Switched: 8/13, reduced to 1/2 pill (a .5 pill), maintaining morning dose of weight .069. Kept micro tapering until 8/26/17.

CURURENTLY TAPERING BUSPAR: BUSPAR started in May 2017, currently: 2and1/3 15mg pill = 15+15+5= 35 mgs. Very helpful med. 11/9/17: 25 mgs. (1 and 1/3 15 mg pill)

PREVIOUS: In August 2016, after some stressful life changes, my Klonopin use went up to about 4.0. New dr jerked me down from 4.0 to 1 mg. I'm still suffering from that sudden extreme withdrawal. Plus I was put on and taken off of many other meds those first couple of months: Tizanadine, Remeron, Lexapro, Wellbutrin. A very difficult time in my life.  CURRENT: Cymbalta 60mg, maintaining. I use medical marijuana for pain as needed, usually at night. Don't take it during the day because it just makes me too dopey. I take probiotics.

 

 

 

 

Link to post

I love Bill Bryson and read every word he writes flatrock.

But I don't know if I've read Sunburned Country.

If it's the one published here as 'Down Under' (and I suspect it is) then yes.

And it's up to his usual brilliant standard except that he goes a bit over the top about how relentlessly most of the wildlife here is out to either poison or eat you. But at least he does it so you laugh!

 

Thanks for the Imodium tip. At my age I'm concerned about the diarrhea causing dehydration which was why I was going to re-instate the last dose but I'll take your advice and give the Imodium a shot.

 

It's going to take me just so long to get off the Mirtazipene...my dose has to go on hold until I can taper off Serequol first. I never would have gone on that except that the pospital psych assured me you could 'just stop taking it any time'. Surely she KNEW! I'd never have touched it had I been given accurate info.

 

I don't distrust doctors in general but I stay wary.

 

Good news re the tremor. I believe those short respites are called 'windows' and they get longer and closer together until it's ALL window.

June 2016: Diagnosed with first-ever depression at age 80 and hospitalised for seven days

Discharged (well...discharged self actually) with meds. 30mg Mirtazipene 50mg Serequol.

Mirtazipene dose raised to 45mg late August.

GP raised it again to 60mg less than a week later.

Had major surgery (shoulder replacement) September 21 and subsequently depression worse than ever.

Case worker added Effexor late September but I couldn't take the stuff...turned me into a log of wood and completely deadened any emotion. Took only two doses and quit. No way was I going to make myself feel like that. Basket case!

Case worker wanted to raise Mirtazipene to 75 but I didn't take the increased dose. Decided instead to taper off the lot.

Reduced Mirtazipene by 7.5 to 52.8 Nov. 8th and another 7.5 (to 45) Nov. 19th.

Reduced Serequol by 12.5 (To 35.5) Nov. 12.

So far so good...but on advice from scallywag will now reduce one med at a time and at four week intervals.

Serequol first...research suggest that Serequol is the nastiest.

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

To prevent dehydration in a similar situation, I've used Pedialyte, essentially water with electrolytes for children with diarrhea. I'm not sure if that product is available in Australia, but there should be something similar. I mentioned it a few months to a US-based member who was having the same concern and she was able to find an unflavoured version.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

Possibly Gastrolyte?  Quick google:  Gastrolyte electrolyte rehydration

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post

I love Bill Bryson and read every word he writes flatrock.

But I don't know if I've read Sunburned Country.

If it's the one published here as 'Down Under' (and I suspect it is) then yes.

 

 

It's going to take me just so long to get off the Mirtazipene...my dose has to go on hold until I can taper off Serequol first. I never would have gone on that except that the pospital psych assured me you could 'just stop taking it any time'. 

 

Good news re the tremor. I believe those short respites are called 'windows' and they get longer and closer together until it's ALL window.

Hi again, yes, that's the Bryson one and he does go on about the poisonous wildlife and the bush! I can't get through his History of Nearly Everything, but I keep trying! What else would you recommend by him? I love his sly humor.

 

Here's a thought. What if - just what if - that hospital psych was right? Are you talking about Mirtzapine or Serequol? I'm just saying... maybe for you, maybe you could just stop it. That's probably ridiculous to say... but I leapt off of Mitzapine (Remeron) at 7.5 and I'm doing okay. haha, okay, right, maybe not so great, oh never mind... ha ... I'm a mess!

 

Good point about the window. Yes, I had a window! I wish I was a little busier so I could stop noticing the tremor so often. But for a few days now I've mostly stayed home, going to the potty way too often, relaxing and recovering. I sort of have my own little recovery home here, and my doggie, and a bunch of new neighbors who are appropriately friendly but not too nosy, thank goodness. I have a few things happening tomorrow, which will be a welcome change. I needed a few quiet days, but enough is enough.

QUIT chlonazepam (Klonopin) 8/26/17. My dosage was less than 0.5; hard to measure exactly because I had been reducing by weight. My overall diagnosis is fibromyalgia. I'm 63 yrs old. Feeling great to be free of it!

MICRO TAPERED KLONOPIN BY WEIGHT: 5/26: .241 -- ?/?: .235 -- 7/10: .223 -- 7/24: .221 -- 7/29: .217 -- 8/1: 212 -- 8/6: .208

Switched: 8/13, reduced to 1/2 pill (a .5 pill), maintaining morning dose of weight .069. Kept micro tapering until 8/26/17.

CURURENTLY TAPERING BUSPAR: BUSPAR started in May 2017, currently: 2and1/3 15mg pill = 15+15+5= 35 mgs. Very helpful med. 11/9/17: 25 mgs. (1 and 1/3 15 mg pill)

PREVIOUS: In August 2016, after some stressful life changes, my Klonopin use went up to about 4.0. New dr jerked me down from 4.0 to 1 mg. I'm still suffering from that sudden extreme withdrawal. Plus I was put on and taken off of many other meds those first couple of months: Tizanadine, Remeron, Lexapro, Wellbutrin. A very difficult time in my life.  CURRENT: Cymbalta 60mg, maintaining. I use medical marijuana for pain as needed, usually at night. Don't take it during the day because it just makes me too dopey. I take probiotics.

 

 

 

 

Link to post

It was the Serequol the psych. said I could 'just stop' flatrock. What I read about that stuff scares the daylights out of me. That's why I'm trying to get off that first. Down to 31 (from the 50mg original dose) tomorrow.

 

Try Bill Bryson's 'Notes from a small island'. It's about England, where he lived worked for about 20 years. I read it on an overnight train from Sydney to Melbourne and laughed so much that my fellow passengers were starting to look nervous. Bill B comes to Australia to do book promotions and 'readings'. Got my copy of 'History' signed by him.

 

Thank you ChessieCat...Gastrolyte it is!

June 2016: Diagnosed with first-ever depression at age 80 and hospitalised for seven days

Discharged (well...discharged self actually) with meds. 30mg Mirtazipene 50mg Serequol.

Mirtazipene dose raised to 45mg late August.

GP raised it again to 60mg less than a week later.

Had major surgery (shoulder replacement) September 21 and subsequently depression worse than ever.

Case worker added Effexor late September but I couldn't take the stuff...turned me into a log of wood and completely deadened any emotion. Took only two doses and quit. No way was I going to make myself feel like that. Basket case!

Case worker wanted to raise Mirtazipene to 75 but I didn't take the increased dose. Decided instead to taper off the lot.

Reduced Mirtazipene by 7.5 to 52.8 Nov. 8th and another 7.5 (to 45) Nov. 19th.

Reduced Serequol by 12.5 (To 35.5) Nov. 12.

So far so good...but on advice from scallywag will now reduce one med at a time and at four week intervals.

Serequol first...research suggest that Serequol is the nastiest.

Link to post

Marsupial, please remind me... Had you just come out of surgery or something recently when they began prescribing this stuff? Sometimes the anesthesia and pain relievers can make a patient seem psychotic when really it is a reaction to the procedure and medications. I feel for you.

 

The extra things happening today have just stressed me out, sadly. Not a welcome change after all. Anxiety zoomed up to a new level all day so far. Gulp. My body doesn't know what it wants, to lie down or run around or what. I do feel the addictive nature of the chlonazepam, like my body does want more of that, but it's not going to get it. I know chlon is not your issue, just saying that today it is mine. But of course I also recently stopped the Remeron (Mirtzapine) and that is also for anxiety. So I am one big ball of anxiety today. I did manage to socialize without anyone knowing how anxious I was, so that's promising. I meditated, I had my morning quiet contemplation time, I journaled, I wrote in my gratitude journal, took my dog for a walk. I rephrase my negative thoughts whenever I catch myself. I practice mindfulness much of the day. And still here I am, an anxious ball of anxiety!

 

But this is your thread, I do not mean to monopolize it. This is your place to vent!

 

And how are you today????

QUIT chlonazepam (Klonopin) 8/26/17. My dosage was less than 0.5; hard to measure exactly because I had been reducing by weight. My overall diagnosis is fibromyalgia. I'm 63 yrs old. Feeling great to be free of it!

MICRO TAPERED KLONOPIN BY WEIGHT: 5/26: .241 -- ?/?: .235 -- 7/10: .223 -- 7/24: .221 -- 7/29: .217 -- 8/1: 212 -- 8/6: .208

Switched: 8/13, reduced to 1/2 pill (a .5 pill), maintaining morning dose of weight .069. Kept micro tapering until 8/26/17.

CURURENTLY TAPERING BUSPAR: BUSPAR started in May 2017, currently: 2and1/3 15mg pill = 15+15+5= 35 mgs. Very helpful med. 11/9/17: 25 mgs. (1 and 1/3 15 mg pill)

PREVIOUS: In August 2016, after some stressful life changes, my Klonopin use went up to about 4.0. New dr jerked me down from 4.0 to 1 mg. I'm still suffering from that sudden extreme withdrawal. Plus I was put on and taken off of many other meds those first couple of months: Tizanadine, Remeron, Lexapro, Wellbutrin. A very difficult time in my life.  CURRENT: Cymbalta 60mg, maintaining. I use medical marijuana for pain as needed, usually at night. Don't take it during the day because it just makes me too dopey. I take probiotics.

 

 

 

 

Link to post

No flatrock...got prescribed Mirtazipine (30mg initially but gradually increased to 60mg) and Serequol (50mg) for depression in June; 3.5 months before surgery. Took second taper/cut of Serequol (to 28.5) just yesterday so wish me luck.

 

Luck seems with me in another area...the diarrhea appears about 80% resolved! All on its own too, from which I take much heart as if it was a 'withdrawal from mirtazipine' effect (and my money is on it) it means that whatever neurotransmitter/gastrointestinal tract system was altered by the mirt. It has HEALED! Dare I hope that my whole brain will re-jig to normal when I get right off these meds?

 

Sorry you're having a stinky day...they're the pits.

Don't apologize for venting...you're more than welcome.

 

Hoping for more frequent and bigger windows for you.

And soon!

June 2016: Diagnosed with first-ever depression at age 80 and hospitalised for seven days

Discharged (well...discharged self actually) with meds. 30mg Mirtazipene 50mg Serequol.

Mirtazipene dose raised to 45mg late August.

GP raised it again to 60mg less than a week later.

Had major surgery (shoulder replacement) September 21 and subsequently depression worse than ever.

Case worker added Effexor late September but I couldn't take the stuff...turned me into a log of wood and completely deadened any emotion. Took only two doses and quit. No way was I going to make myself feel like that. Basket case!

Case worker wanted to raise Mirtazipene to 75 but I didn't take the increased dose. Decided instead to taper off the lot.

Reduced Mirtazipene by 7.5 to 52.8 Nov. 8th and another 7.5 (to 45) Nov. 19th.

Reduced Serequol by 12.5 (To 35.5) Nov. 12.

So far so good...but on advice from scallywag will now reduce one med at a time and at four week intervals.

Serequol first...research suggest that Serequol is the nastiest.

Link to post

Fantastic news! Another taper and less diarrhea! You are rockin' it!

 

Yeah, thanks for the vent. Sigh. I don't have much news today, so... keep on keeping on, flatrock

QUIT chlonazepam (Klonopin) 8/26/17. My dosage was less than 0.5; hard to measure exactly because I had been reducing by weight. My overall diagnosis is fibromyalgia. I'm 63 yrs old. Feeling great to be free of it!

MICRO TAPERED KLONOPIN BY WEIGHT: 5/26: .241 -- ?/?: .235 -- 7/10: .223 -- 7/24: .221 -- 7/29: .217 -- 8/1: 212 -- 8/6: .208

Switched: 8/13, reduced to 1/2 pill (a .5 pill), maintaining morning dose of weight .069. Kept micro tapering until 8/26/17.

CURURENTLY TAPERING BUSPAR: BUSPAR started in May 2017, currently: 2and1/3 15mg pill = 15+15+5= 35 mgs. Very helpful med. 11/9/17: 25 mgs. (1 and 1/3 15 mg pill)

PREVIOUS: In August 2016, after some stressful life changes, my Klonopin use went up to about 4.0. New dr jerked me down from 4.0 to 1 mg. I'm still suffering from that sudden extreme withdrawal. Plus I was put on and taken off of many other meds those first couple of months: Tizanadine, Remeron, Lexapro, Wellbutrin. A very difficult time in my life.  CURRENT: Cymbalta 60mg, maintaining. I use medical marijuana for pain as needed, usually at night. Don't take it during the day because it just makes me too dopey. I take probiotics.

 

 

 

 

Link to post
  • 2 weeks later...

Marsupial, are you still here!??

QUIT chlonazepam (Klonopin) 8/26/17. My dosage was less than 0.5; hard to measure exactly because I had been reducing by weight. My overall diagnosis is fibromyalgia. I'm 63 yrs old. Feeling great to be free of it!

MICRO TAPERED KLONOPIN BY WEIGHT: 5/26: .241 -- ?/?: .235 -- 7/10: .223 -- 7/24: .221 -- 7/29: .217 -- 8/1: 212 -- 8/6: .208

Switched: 8/13, reduced to 1/2 pill (a .5 pill), maintaining morning dose of weight .069. Kept micro tapering until 8/26/17.

CURURENTLY TAPERING BUSPAR: BUSPAR started in May 2017, currently: 2and1/3 15mg pill = 15+15+5= 35 mgs. Very helpful med. 11/9/17: 25 mgs. (1 and 1/3 15 mg pill)

PREVIOUS: In August 2016, after some stressful life changes, my Klonopin use went up to about 4.0. New dr jerked me down from 4.0 to 1 mg. I'm still suffering from that sudden extreme withdrawal. Plus I was put on and taken off of many other meds those first couple of months: Tizanadine, Remeron, Lexapro, Wellbutrin. A very difficult time in my life.  CURRENT: Cymbalta 60mg, maintaining. I use medical marijuana for pain as needed, usually at night. Don't take it during the day because it just makes me too dopey. I take probiotics.

 

 

 

 

Link to post

Hi flatrock...Yep...down to 45mg. Mirt and pdoc says hold it there and get right off quetiapine first. Three tapers to go on that so it will be at least mid. Jan.

The more I read about these drugs the more I want off. Going to take until at least the end of April to quit mirt. And then only if everything goes absolutely the best it can go!

June 2016: Diagnosed with first-ever depression at age 80 and hospitalised for seven days

Discharged (well...discharged self actually) with meds. 30mg Mirtazipene 50mg Serequol.

Mirtazipene dose raised to 45mg late August.

GP raised it again to 60mg less than a week later.

Had major surgery (shoulder replacement) September 21 and subsequently depression worse than ever.

Case worker added Effexor late September but I couldn't take the stuff...turned me into a log of wood and completely deadened any emotion. Took only two doses and quit. No way was I going to make myself feel like that. Basket case!

Case worker wanted to raise Mirtazipene to 75 but I didn't take the increased dose. Decided instead to taper off the lot.

Reduced Mirtazipene by 7.5 to 52.8 Nov. 8th and another 7.5 (to 45) Nov. 19th.

Reduced Serequol by 12.5 (To 35.5) Nov. 12.

So far so good...but on advice from scallywag will now reduce one med at a time and at four week intervals.

Serequol first...research suggest that Serequol is the nastiest.

Link to post

Yeah, that's rough. Hard to be patient! I should get a time line for myself too, because saying "end of April" doesn't seem so bad, really. Glad you're still here. After I stabilize some more, my plan is a very slow taper off of Klonopin (chlonazepam)... And yeah that's if it all goes well!

QUIT chlonazepam (Klonopin) 8/26/17. My dosage was less than 0.5; hard to measure exactly because I had been reducing by weight. My overall diagnosis is fibromyalgia. I'm 63 yrs old. Feeling great to be free of it!

MICRO TAPERED KLONOPIN BY WEIGHT: 5/26: .241 -- ?/?: .235 -- 7/10: .223 -- 7/24: .221 -- 7/29: .217 -- 8/1: 212 -- 8/6: .208

Switched: 8/13, reduced to 1/2 pill (a .5 pill), maintaining morning dose of weight .069. Kept micro tapering until 8/26/17.

CURURENTLY TAPERING BUSPAR: BUSPAR started in May 2017, currently: 2and1/3 15mg pill = 15+15+5= 35 mgs. Very helpful med. 11/9/17: 25 mgs. (1 and 1/3 15 mg pill)

PREVIOUS: In August 2016, after some stressful life changes, my Klonopin use went up to about 4.0. New dr jerked me down from 4.0 to 1 mg. I'm still suffering from that sudden extreme withdrawal. Plus I was put on and taken off of many other meds those first couple of months: Tizanadine, Remeron, Lexapro, Wellbutrin. A very difficult time in my life.  CURRENT: Cymbalta 60mg, maintaining. I use medical marijuana for pain as needed, usually at night. Don't take it during the day because it just makes me too dopey. I take probiotics.

 

 

 

 

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Hey Marsupial - you still around?  How's the tapering going?

 

I'm prettty angry with the hospital psych who put me on the Mirtazipene and Serequol...

 

Seroquel is on the "do not give to elders" list.  Or should be!  Furthermore - who gives it for first episode depression?  Mirtazapine has sleepy effects if that's what you need help with - so this script was just over the top.  My faith in doctors is not, I'm afraid, as firm as yours.

How is it going?

 

Because this is your first foray into psych drugs, I have high hopes that you will be coming off quite nicely.

 

It would be lovely to hear from you and see how you are going!

 

THIS IS ORDINARY REACTIVE DEPRESSION; NOT THE ILLNESS!

I'm miserable in case I've wrecked my brain with this poison and consequently ruined what's left of my life.
Some of the stuff I've read about Serequol frightens me to death, plus I'm going to have to keep bombarding the brain with Mirtazipene until I'm clear of Serequol.

I think what I'm trying to say is that this is plain, ordinary emotional depression for good reasons and not the SICKNESS.

 

Hey, I've come to believe that the illness is - most of the time - situational.  Or drug induced.  Or nutritional.  There may be 5% of the "depression" cases that are "The Illness" as you say - but - they are so rare as to almost be mythical.  I believe that, somewhere, there are some people who have this "illness" called "depression," but I have yet to meet them.  

 

Instead I find that the physical toll of giving birth, thyroid issues, life problems, relationships, stress of major athletic endeavors, drugs - these are the things which make the "illness."  If you step back a little further, I might even say I disbelieve it is a medical illness.  What is the test for it?  The objective cause?  We are brainwashed by pharma to believe it is a distinct disorder that these little pills "adjust," when really, often what we really need is rest.  Deep rest = Depressed.

 

I like that you found cases of "self resolved" depression.  That's another one that people don't talk about much:  I just got better.  It took time, but I got better.

 

It's proven that there is no such thing as a chemical imbalance, until you take the drugs.

 

The good news is - at least they gave you relatively low doses of the stuff.  You can do this!

 

Have you had symptoms from tapering?  If you are relatively symptom free, you may be able to speed it up a bit, say, try 3 weeks in between tapers.

 

Check in, let us know how you are going?

I hope you are keeping cool today.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Hi

JanCarol,

Lovely to hear from another Aussie!

 

I'm doing pretty well, but considering some of the stuff I've read, waiting in some trepidation for the you-know-what to hit the fan.

Marsupials are not famous for optimism.

I went agin Scallywag's advice and decided to taper the quetiapine and Mirtazipene at the same time.

(Marsupials don't do patience either )

 

Not EXACTLY the same time...got them both on four weeks between 10% drops but leapfrog fortnight about.

I seem to be getting away with it...got the quetiapine down from 50mg to 12.5 and the Mirtazipene from 60 to 37.5.

Estimate that at that rate the Mirt is going to take me until the end of May, finishing with teensy liquid doses.

No apparent WD's to this stage so here's hoping...

 

I agree with your premise re depression being the result of circumstances and causes and with the help of a really great psychologist I've identified mine. De-mystified the beggar...knowing and acknowledging the reasons sure beats imagining depression as some sort of a malignant force that strikes out of the blue without rhyme or reason. And against which I'm helpless.

 

I reckon I've got its number. Not that that guarantees a smooth ride, but it helps.

Yep...keeping my cool in a lovely 30 degree day in Melbourne!

 

Thank you for the video...will certainly watch it this evening.

June 2016: Diagnosed with first-ever depression at age 80 and hospitalised for seven days

Discharged (well...discharged self actually) with meds. 30mg Mirtazipene 50mg Serequol.

Mirtazipene dose raised to 45mg late August.

GP raised it again to 60mg less than a week later.

Had major surgery (shoulder replacement) September 21 and subsequently depression worse than ever.

Case worker added Effexor late September but I couldn't take the stuff...turned me into a log of wood and completely deadened any emotion. Took only two doses and quit. No way was I going to make myself feel like that. Basket case!

Case worker wanted to raise Mirtazipene to 75 but I didn't take the increased dose. Decided instead to taper off the lot.

Reduced Mirtazipene by 7.5 to 52.8 Nov. 8th and another 7.5 (to 45) Nov. 19th.

Reduced Serequol by 12.5 (To 35.5) Nov. 12.

So far so good...but on advice from scallywag will now reduce one med at a time and at four week intervals.

Serequol first...research suggest that Serequol is the nastiest.

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JanCarol...

Interesting premise put forward in that video.

A very reflective guy there!

 

However although I agree with his theory re (his) depression, his issues aren't my issues.

Where we're singing from the same hymn-sheet is in something my psychologist said, and which I am coming to believe more and more.

 

She suggested on about my fifth visit that it might be realistic to view my depression as an opportunity.

I felt like whacking her at the time but...in the ensuing sessions she gently nudged me towards insights and strategies.

Have decided to see her one last time (total of 11 visits) and this happens this Wednesday.

 

Figure I'm in the position of a soldier who has just been issued with a new tank. Now I have to learn to drive it!

 

What worries me is how 'fit' for the task my brain is. At 37.5mg I figure I'm still being effectively poisoned.

And it's months of taper to go (thank goodness I learned about this on this forum)

 

Hoping against hope I finish up sometime this year (my 82nd!) with a brain rejigged to something like its factory setting.

June 2016: Diagnosed with first-ever depression at age 80 and hospitalised for seven days

Discharged (well...discharged self actually) with meds. 30mg Mirtazipene 50mg Serequol.

Mirtazipene dose raised to 45mg late August.

GP raised it again to 60mg less than a week later.

Had major surgery (shoulder replacement) September 21 and subsequently depression worse than ever.

Case worker added Effexor late September but I couldn't take the stuff...turned me into a log of wood and completely deadened any emotion. Took only two doses and quit. No way was I going to make myself feel like that. Basket case!

Case worker wanted to raise Mirtazipene to 75 but I didn't take the increased dose. Decided instead to taper off the lot.

Reduced Mirtazipene by 7.5 to 52.8 Nov. 8th and another 7.5 (to 45) Nov. 19th.

Reduced Serequol by 12.5 (To 35.5) Nov. 12.

So far so good...but on advice from scallywag will now reduce one med at a time and at four week intervals.

Serequol first...research suggest that Serequol is the nastiest.

Link to post

Of course it helps tj. And it helps even more that you are nice enough to post.

Thank you for the Serequol heads-up.

I sat expressionless in front of my doc. when he intoned, "Now you're down from 50mg so cut your present dose of 37.5 back to 25, stay there for two weeks, cut in half to 12.5, stay for another two weeks on that then quit". I was doing my compliant, dim, 'little old lady' look so he helpfully wrote it down for me.

If he had just known what I was thinking behind sweet, the acquiescent mask....

 

You've got to wonder about a world where little old ladies (I'm 81) have more know-how than mega-qualified docs.

That was three months ago and I still have two tapers to go. MY (and your) way.

At least my medical file isn't stamped, "compliant argumentative old BAT!

I figure what the don't know won't hurt them.

As what they THINK they know has the potential to hurt me!

 

Having little trouble with my taper (and I'm tapering a high dose of Mirtazipine at the same time). Will hold the Mirt on 30 until I finish with the S.

 

We can do it!

June 2016: Diagnosed with first-ever depression at age 80 and hospitalised for seven days

Discharged (well...discharged self actually) with meds. 30mg Mirtazipene 50mg Serequol.

Mirtazipene dose raised to 45mg late August.

GP raised it again to 60mg less than a week later.

Had major surgery (shoulder replacement) September 21 and subsequently depression worse than ever.

Case worker added Effexor late September but I couldn't take the stuff...turned me into a log of wood and completely deadened any emotion. Took only two doses and quit. No way was I going to make myself feel like that. Basket case!

Case worker wanted to raise Mirtazipene to 75 but I didn't take the increased dose. Decided instead to taper off the lot.

Reduced Mirtazipene by 7.5 to 52.8 Nov. 8th and another 7.5 (to 45) Nov. 19th.

Reduced Serequol by 12.5 (To 35.5) Nov. 12.

So far so good...but on advice from scallywag will now reduce one med at a time and at four week intervals.

Serequol first...research suggest that Serequol is the nastiest.

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