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Dixon

Dixon: 10 months off SSRIs

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Dixon

Hi,

 

I have been off the SSRI's for 10 months an off of Seroquel for 5 months. As with everyone else it has been a tough road, but getting better.

 

Does anyone have any experience with Truehope and their EMP vitamins?

 

Seems to be some good testimonials, but I am not sure.

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Altostrata

Hi, Dixon, and welcome.

 

We all would like a pill that would make us better. I haven't found a program yet that offers real treatment. Most package common supplements and mark them up, when you can get them yourself for less.

 

Here's my take on EmpowerPlus http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1368-truehopes-empowerplus-vs-an-ordinary-multivitamin/page__p__12570__hl__truehope__fromsearch__1#entry12570

 

You might as well save your money and spend it on something many of us have found to be helpful -- fish oil.

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Shanti

Hi Dixon,

Welcome to the forum. I haven't tried that. Homeopathy and Fish Oil is about the only thing I can handle. I tried a brain supplement and it made me sicker. I also take calcium and magnesium for jerks and tremors.

 

If you try it and it works lemme know. Nice to meet you :)

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dragonfly

In regards to empowerplus, I do not think it can hurt. Feeding the body and mind, helping with digestion, all the benefits of any good supplement,cannot hinder-in my opinion. In my research of truehope I have found many more positive comments than negative. In fact-there are two people in my family that have suffered with bi-polar and are now functioning without drugs because of empower. We must be mindful of encouraging each other to search out and investigate all sources. I do not believe that empower is the "end all be all", but it is worth a try. Thats what it boils down to-keep on learning,researching,questioning until each of us finds what works for us.

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Altostrata

dragonfly, I'm glad your family members are doing better.

 

I don't think EmpowerPlus can hurt except in the pocketbook. You can get the same results from cutting up a much cheaper multivitamin with minerals.

 

I've put a lot of work into evaluating this and I don't think the formula confers any special benefits. Here's what one of the researchers who used Empower in treating bipolar disorder said: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1368-truehopes-empowerplus-vs-an-ordinary-multivitamin/page__view__findpost__p__12572

 

Other than the price and the heavy advertising, there is no difference between EmpowerPlus and an ordinary multivitamin.

 

I put no store whatsoever in the positive comments on a manufacturer's Web site. It's pretty common on the Web that company employees post these.

 

As for how EmpowerPlus or any multivitamin would work for treating withdrawal syndrome, which is entirely different from bipolar disorder, that's unknown. People in antidepressant withdrawal sometimes react poorly to some ingredients in these mixed supplements.

 

On the other hand, if you have a junk diet, a multivitamin might address some lack of nutrients that is affecting your recovery.

 

If you've never taken a multivitamin before and you are experiencing withdrawal, I would be careful about taking one, starting with maybe a half-tablet to see how you react.

 

This site is as skeptical of alternative remedies as any other treatment. There are many alternative programs and products promoted to remedy mental disorders, some for antidepressant withdrawal specifically. To make money, they harp on the fears of vulnerable, desperate people. I've done a lot of research on them. If I find I can recommend any alternative treatments, I will.

 

Each person makes his or her own decisions. In this case, I say, buyer beware.

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compsports

Dragonfly,

 

I have never taken Empower Plus but totally agree with Alto about being wary of programs like this.

 

I tried label me sane to no avail and am horrified at the positive comments I posted on an email list in 2006 when I tried it. I thought it was the end all, be all program.

 

Knowing what I now know about supplements, I would have been alot more cautious. But I was always looking for the next quick fix.

 

CS

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compsports

Hi,

 

I have been off the SSRI's for 10 months an off of Seroquel for 5 months. As with everyone else it has been a tough road, but getting better.

 

Does anyone have any experience with Truehope and their EMP vitamins?

 

Seems to be some good testimonials, but I am not sure.

 

By the way, welcome Dixon. I am glad to hear with your med combination, things are getting better.

 

As I mentioned in a previous post, be very careful about programs like empower plus. I bought the BS of Label Me Sane and regretted it big time.

 

CS

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Altostrata

This is Dixon's topic and should be about Dixon.

 

Any more discussion about EmpowerPlus is to be posted in this topic: Truehope's Empowerplus vs an ordinary multivitamin -- and my patience for it there is very, very limited.

 

Dixon, what symptoms do you have now? Which SSRIs were you on? What symptoms did you have when you quit them? Which have gotten better since? Did you get withdrawal symptoms from Seroquel?

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Dixon

I have been off of Seroquel and SSRI's now fo almost a year.

 

Still on Ambien, just can't sleep without it....sucks.

 

Anxiety still bad, comes and goes....hypersentive to tv, computer, even reading (anyone else like this?).

 

Have tested high on glutamate (triple normal), any ideas on how to bring down.

 

Taking fish oil, inositol, passion flower...

 

Full body tremers/shakes still show up....really bad some days.

 

Thinking about going on low dose of Lamictal, to help with withdrawls...suppose to help with shakes and glutamate..

 

Any suggestions on this?

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Altostrata

Hi, Dixon. I moved your new post here, as an update to your topic.

 

Are you working with a doctor on this? What do you mean by low-dose?

 

What kind of test did you have showing high glutamate? (Glutamate is one of the most abundant neurotransmitters in the body.)

 

To deal with your light hypersensitivity, see these topics:

Light-sensitive? Try blocking out blue light: Your computer may be your problem

 

skin photosensitivity: a listed side effect

 

Light flashes made me sick?

 

Reducing cortisol, the anxiety hormone:

 

How to reduce cortisol? Both rx and natural

 

About sleep problems:

Sleep problems: That awful withdrawal insomnia

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Early-morning waking with panic or anxiety

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have withdrawal insomnia

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Light therapy for sleep problems

 

Update on milk peptides for sleep: Our friend Lactium again

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Dixon

Thanks for info...

 

I am working with a Dr...

 

Had Neuroscience neurotransmitter test run....Glutamate way high, but Dopamine and Serotonin okay.

 

Low dose would be less than 25 mg....thinking of starting at 12.5?

 

Thoughts?

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Altostrata

The NeuroScience tests are not valid, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1371-no-recommendations-for-commercial-programs-to-assist-withdrawal/page__view__findpost__p__12620

 

A low starting dose of lamotrigine would be 2mg. An MD can phone the manufacturer and get two bottles at no charge. See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1122-tips-for-tapering-off-lamictal-lamotrigine

 

If you are hypersensitive to medication, do not permit a doctor to tell you to start at a higher dose.

 

Experimenting with lamotrigine is tricky. If you take too much, it will make your symptoms worse. That's why you should start at a very, very low dose. See how it works for you, then taper up very gradually.

 

Please look at those links and try to reduce your symptoms with non-drug means. No pill is going to quickly fix you.

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Dixon

So you think Neuroscience is a scam....I was wondering...

 

I have also tested high in lead and mercury, did some DMSA but it seemed to set the withdrawls off. I am not so sure about the Naturopaths testing for this either....any thoughts?

 

Thanks for info on low dose...I will see if Dr will get 2mg or 5mg...I assume the 5mg can be split.

 

What are your thoughts on using Lamictal for withdrawl symptoms....seems like going backwards.

 

Do you think the Ambien could be the problem.....I can take a quarter dose of 5 mg Ambien at night and it will completely calm my mind and everything....I use it like a tranquilizer at night. Sometimes I wonder if it is just my body looking for the Ambien hit...but it is the only thing that works. Some days I just count down until I can take a little...some days I take a quarter at 7pm to just calm things down. Take about 10mg at night....along with melotonin, which actually helps with the sleep more than the Ambien. The Ambien calms me down.

 

Any way, about Lamictal...have you heard of others using it to help with withdrawls? How long at 2mg before increase...what is the most you would take, I did not want to go over 25mg.

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Altostrata

Yes, you can become dependent on Ambien; you will experience rebound anxiety symptoms when it wears off, similar to a benzo.

 

You may wish to try very gradually tapering Ambien first. It could be the source of some of your symptoms.

 

NeuroScience and its neurological supplements are, in my opinion, not worth the money. If they are central to your naturopath's practice, I'd find another doctor.

 

Heavy metal detoxification can be very stressful for hypersensitized nervous systems. We don't recommend it. The heavy metals are not what's causing your withdrawal symptoms.

 

I have been treated with Lamictal by a doctor who knows what he's doing. He very carefully titrates up to the lowest effective dose, which relieves anxiety somewhat and assists sleep but doesn't solve the whole problem. At the most, I was taking 5.2mg, and it's taken me 3 years to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

This isn't something you can do on your own.

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Dixon

Thanks for sharing your experience with Lamictal....it gives me some encouragement.

 

I have been wanting to get off the Ambien, but easier said than done as you well know. Many days it is the only thing that gives me relieve, although it may be part of the problem.

 

Are the withdrawl issues with Ambien as bad as with SSRIs and Seroquel....been on Ambien for several years now.

 

For Lamictal, how long has your experience been that you stay on a dose before you see a difference in anxiety and/or before moving to higher dose? Do you think it might help with getting off the Ambien?

 

Another question....I am hypersensitive to the TV and computer and so on, which everyone jumps on the light...but I do not think it is the light. I frequently cannot read a page of a book without stopping because it revs me up....being in a car, driving or not is really difficult (not all the time, but most), it revs me up and after 10 or 15 mins I am buzzed and exhausted. Do you think the Lamictal might help these issues?

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Altostrata

I don't know if Lamictal can help with Ambien withdrawal.

 

Ambien is a benzo-like medication. After several years, you can definitely be addicted to it. You might find more specific information about withdrawal on benzobuddies.org

 

If I were you, I'd try reducing light stimulation and see if it helps with your overstimulation problem. Many of us have experienced it, as you can see in our Symptoms section.

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Dixon

Thanks....are these the links you provided above?

 

For Lamictal, how long has your experience been that you stay on a dose before you see a difference in anxiety and/or before moving to higher dose?

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Karma

Hi Dixon,

 

I suggest that you look into the link that Alto provided about reducing Cortisol. Your symptoms of light sensitivity and sleep issues sound like they may be associated with excessive cortisol. The idea of revving up when reading also sounds like a cortisol reaction.

 

I don't know for sure and I am not a medical professional, but I've personally experienced high evening cortisol disrupting my sleep. You might be better off with phosphitidylserine in the evening. It can help to reset your normal diurnal cortisol rhythm and that might help all the way around.

 

Karma

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Altostrata

Dixon, do not count on Lamictal solving your problems with Ambien.

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Dixon

Alto....Thanks for reminder....Ambien is a beast of its own, one I need to start weaning from.

 

I am looking at Lamictal to take the edge off of the anxiety and the full body shakes/seizures I still get, which I assume are from the Seroquel.

 

Taking to heart your suggestion of not doing this on my own. Problem is I don't know of a doctor in my area (Washington State) that works with withdrawal. Most simply look at me and tell me I am wrong. My GP supports me and is willing to help do whatever, but he does not know what is going on. The Psych's just want to get going on a drug cocktail. So if you know anyone in this area that could help I would love a referral.

 

Regarding Lamictal, what has been your experience in how long to stay at a dose to see if it is effective? This med seems to be slow getting into the system.....so I do not want to have unrealisitic expectations and also do not want to keep bumping because I am not waiting long enough for the results.

 

I am still struggling with going this way, but need something to take edge off...last couple months below my tolerance level. I can handle a bad few days, but once it goes over a week my fight starts to fade....and its been a couple months now.

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Altostrata

I hear ya, Dixon.

 

If you get 2mg Lamictal, I would take 1/2 tablet (1mg) to start. If it does anything, you'll feel it within 4 days.

 

You may feel it "hit" within an hour or two.

 

If it does anything that doesn't feel good, reduce the dosage.

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Dixon

Karma, thanks....I will take a look at cortisol. In past the saliva tests and some blood test always came in below normal....never had a high cortisol test. Mostly the Neuroscience saliva test in past....not sure how valid they are as a measurement.

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Dixon

Thanks Alto....this is really helpful!!!

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Dixon

Okay, tried the Lamictal....was not patient enought to wait for 2mg, so tried the 5mg and split them down to 2.5.

 

Not good....only did for two days, but was bed ridden for two day, this is not a normal part for me....as in laying in bed all day staring at ceiling, brain totally checked out. You would think at this I would be relaxed then, but actually the shakes/tremors and tics were still coming...tics were worse, really tightened up whole body when they happen.

 

About 24 hours after stopping...brain came back on, and I could walk around again, even went out few hours later.

 

Thought about splitting in quarters or titrating it down....but a little scared to.

 

I was wondering if using the Lamictal with a GABA med like I am taking in Ambien is a bad combination.

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Altostrata

Very sorry to hear that. It doesn't sound like that amount of Lamictal is doing you any good.

 

I don't know if there could be an Ambien-Lamictal reaction. There might be.

 

You may need to taper down on the Ambien, very carefully. benzobuddies might have more info.

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Karma

You can look for drug interaction information by typing in Lamictal and Ambien - drug interaction information will come up if available.

http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/ambien-with-lamictal-2333-1544-1430-848.html

 

It says it "Moderately clinically significant. Usually avoid combinations; use it only under special circumstances."

 

I don't know if this is helpful.

 

Karma

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Nikki

Dixon I do not know much about Lamictal or Ambien. From my own experience from the meds I have taken I know for sure that I have developed sensitivities to all of them. So instead of them working I get more anxiety.

 

My experiencies have been with ssri's. You mentioned having taken them too.

 

If there are side effects, I get them.

 

Hugs

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Dixon

Thanks Karma....that is helpful.

 

Nikki, I to have become hypersensitive to any medication.

 

Have any of you researched the blood brain barrier issues....some call it leaky brain I guess.

 

Position is that all the meds we have taken (along with all the electronic emissions) that cross the blood brain barrier has compromised it. Thus it becomes hypersensitive to anything because it allows more stuff to go across than it should....rather meds, foods, and so on.

 

Any ideas how to bolster the blood brain barrier? Stopping the meds that cross it seems to be the first step, but how to repair it?

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Altostrata

You have to let it fix itself, Dixon.

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Dixon

Latest tests show I have candida.....any suggestions on a probiotic, sounds like there are a number out there that dont do much.

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Karma

I started with a Jarrow brand. After six months to a year I switched to another brand and continue to rotate so that I get a good proliferation of a variety of good flora. Right now I use PB-8 with the green top when I travel because it doesn't have to be refrigerated. When I'm not traveling I use Ther-biotic complete. Ther-biotic complete has to be refrigerated and for me one TB is equivalent to 3 of the PB-8.

 

You may need to start with one capsule and work your way up. If you get too much pro-biotic without building it up in your system, you may have loose bowels.

 

If you go to the health food store they should have someone who can make recommendations. You may also want to look into taking something like SmartSilver (not colloidal silver because the silver particles are too big) to help clear out the yeast, thus helping to balance the system by increasing good flora and decreasing excessive yeast.

 

Karma

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Nikki

Dixon I have actually liked all the different probiotics I have tried although I think the most potent are the ones that are refrigerated in the health food store....

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Dixon

Thanks....I guess there is a bad strain of bacteria I have, so Naturopath put me on Cipro...she does not usually go to the antibiotics so I was suprised. Then she wants to do 10 days of Fluconazole to kill the yeast...not so sure about this part. Also doing grapefruit seed extract to kill off the stuff also.

 

That is suppose to get rid of the bad stuff I guess....then I have to put in the good....which is the probiotics. I have started those also.

 

Have any of you tried Kefir....I have been reading that it is really good at getting the probiotics in, and if you make it yourself you get more strains in than with the commercial kefir or the probitic supplements. Any experience or thoughts on this?

 

Thanks again.

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Dixon

Hi Alto....sorry, left out some details. Did a comprhensive stool analysis....came back good flora in bad shape Lacto, Bifido..basically not measureable. No parasites. But dysbiotic flora of Klebsiella pneumoniae at 4+, which I guess is to high...it tested that Cipro would work. Also came back Candida 3+...which makes sense with good flora low.

 

She normally does not do antibiotics, but said I was having so many gut issues and good flora down....she said lets kill the bad with the Cipro and move on to Candida and building up. Also has me taking grapefruit extract....report said that both the candida and Klebsiella would be suseptible to this...so decided to do both I guess.

 

What do you think? I will read link, thanks.

 

What do you think of Fluconizale....not sure I want to take this for 10 days....seems like allot.

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