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Distraut: asking how can I help my son, akrontes?

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Distraut

Thank you SO much Scallywag! This information is SO reassuring for me.

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Distraut

I would very much appreciate some advise from members who have suffered from severe OCD during their withdrawal process.

 

I am the mother of Akrontes, whose signature appears below.  He has been suffering from one major obsession, brought on by some very aggressive Exposure Response (ERP) therapy last November which is outlined above.  The actions he was required to take during this therapy (writing nasty things about his friends and leaving them around the town) have tormented him ever since!

 

Is this likely to diminish over time?  What happens to obsessions, do they lessen gradually or even disappear overnight?

 

He is on a very small dose of Remiron which is now down to 1.5 mg approx.  He manages to sleep pretty well, although he prefers to sleep during daytime hours as the light bothers him a lot and he does get a minimum of relief during the darker hours and can play chess on his computer whereas during the day he can do very little.

 

The only other symptom he has are occasional nasty headaches.

 

But this obsession is really intractable.  I have tried getting him to practice breathing and mindfulness but often he is far to anxious to even attempt it.

 

I hate to see him suffering in this way and want to assure him that this is due to withdrawal and WILL pass.

 

Please reassure us that we are on the right track so that I can bring him some hope that he is not "damned"!

 

Thank you so much.

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Distraut

Thank you Chessie Cat

 

I am particularly interested in personal experiences from members of the Forum and how they have dealt with/recovered from these nasty symptoms.

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ChessieCat

I've added OCD to the tags at the top left of the screen, below the topic title.  If you click on that it will bring up the members' topics on the site with the same tag.

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Distraut

Thank you so much ChessieCat.

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Distraut

Please can someone help and advise me!

 

I am SO worried about my son Akrontes and at my wits end how to help him.

 

To summarize his story, after 8 years of anti-depressant use he quit taking Sertraline 50/100 mg cold turkey in May 2016 and his state gradually deteriorated during the following months.  So much so that in November 2016 he admitted himself into a private psychiatric hospital where he was prescribed Remeron/Mirtazapine 15 mg and also had an intensive course of Exposure Response Therapy for OCD. 

 

As part of his exposure therapy the therapist asked him to write nasty accusations about 20 or so of his friends on bits of paper and distribute them around town.  He is now terrified he has put them in danger and that he will go to hell.

 

It is now 6 months later.  We have reduced the dose of Remeron/Mirtazapine to a minimum but this obsession about harming people and going to hell has never left him and torments him all his waking hours.  He feels he is as guilty as the worst terrorist.  He did have a couple of windows before this therapy but not really since although there were days when he managed to remain calmer. His only relief is sleep, which thankfully he is still able to do although at very irregular hours.  Last night he picked off all his big toenail in his anguish and he seems to be getting worse rather than better with the passage of time.

 

He has been having CBT sessions at the local health centre and has an appointment today but does not want to go and I don't know whether they are of any use.  I am worried that if he should turn up there in his current state they will wish to medicate him.  He is screaming that the therapist has ruined his life, that he wants to kill himself, that there is no point in living.  He cannot reason that this is withdrawal, anxiety and will not try breathing or medication or post or read this Forum.   I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO! 

 

I try and make sure he eats well, takes small doses of Omega 3 and magnesium.

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Distraut

The recent bombings in Manchester haven't helped.  He feels as criminal for leaving little slips of paper about as the suicide bomber who killed 22 children and injured scores of others.  Is this degree of guilt and self-hate typical and how can I get it to abate?  I hate to see him suffering in the horrendous fashion!

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AliG

I'm sorry for what you are going through.

 

The therapist was inappropriate and did harm but hopefully, it can be rectified in time.

 

It sounds like he may have tapered too fast, recently. It seems it was faster than 10 %. By my calculations, he would be on possibly about 3 mg right now.

 

This may still be withdrawal. Maybe he could updose slightly.

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Madeleine

Does he have a religious background? If so maybe he could speak to a priest or pastor who could reassure him that all will be well, that writing the notes was not really his fault as he was following doctorr orders (which were really odd and inappropriate) but he followed orders as he was unwell and was under this person's authority) and even so he regrets and is sorry for it so is already forgiven.

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Distraut

@ AliG - Thank you for your reassurance.

 

@ Madelaine - he has spoken to a priest but even if he were to receive absolution from the Pope himself, he would still be convinced he was evil.

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Distraut

Sorry AliG was reading your message on my mobile and missed the bit about tapering.

 

Will bear in mind about updosing.  Was hoping that since he was only on Mirtazapine for a short while it would be easier to get off.

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Madeleine

Can I send you a private message?  Not sure if this is your son's or your account...

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Distraut

Please do Madeleine.  If you send it to Distraut it will come to me.  His account is under the name Akrontes.

 

Thank you so much

 

Ann

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Madeleine

Just sent you a message.

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Kittygiggles

I'm sorry I discovered this thread so late. If you just want help, suspect you have OCD, and don't want to read the rest of this rather large thread then here’s the book that fixed me:

Break Free from OCD: Overcoming Obsessive Compulsive Disorder with CBT Paperback – October 17, 2011

 

https://www.amazon.com/Break-Free-OCD-Overcoming-Compulsive/dp/0091939690/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1492798296&sr=1-1&keywords=break+free+from+OCD

 

If you feel you have one or more other anxiety problems, here is a post I made listing other books that helped me:

I wish you both luck and please remember that setbacks in OCD recovery are normal and should not dissuade you from carrying on with CBT! Be kind to yourself, take breaks if you need them, and try to keep doing things you used to enjoy when you have the energy to do so.

 

 

Confusion about OCD!

There seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread about OCD. I am a former sufferer who is now about 90% recovered. On my worst days, which are infrequent, perhaps at most once a month, I waste no more than an hour dealing with my obsessions and compulsions. The rest of the time I waste only a few minutes to no time at all on OCD :) I am getting better all the time, withdrawal has slowed by recovery somewhat but has not halted it :) Below I will give some useful information about OCD and hope to clarify things.

 

 

What is OCD? Facts established by our current understanding of the condition

  • There is only one diagnosis of OCD (although it may vary in severity): the cause of it is moot and dwelling on whether it is iatrogenic, genetic, environmental, lifestyle, or trauma-based does not yet help us treat it any better than we do presently. SSRIs will not treat OCD although they may mask symptoms. 

 

  • There are no multiple 'forms' of OCD: it is the same condition whether you obsess about harm, contamination issues, mortality, losing your mind, morality, religion, sexuality... the list is truly endless. It is the same condition whether your compulsion is to wash, to hide, to check, to seek reassurance from yourself or others, to ruminate, and so on.

 

  • Your thoughts are normal: In short, the thoughts that terrify OCD sufferers are experienced by the majority of people on the planet, possibly everyone (first study: ‘Normal and Abnormal Obsessions’ by Rachman S & De Silva P in Behaviour and Research Therapy (16, 1978, 233-248) replication: ‘Abnormal and normal obsessions – A replication’ by Salkovskis P & Harrison J in Behaviour Research and Therapy (22, 5, 1984, 549-552). It is your obsessive reaction (compulsions and anxiety) to your thoughts that creates the disorder.

 

  • There is only one treatment that has a high probability of success (but it is not a binary condition, it almost always helps reduce OCD’s impact on the sufferer’s life): Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). In order to undermine OCD and the terror it causes, one must retrain one's faulty thinking to look rationally at things and accept uncertainty as an inalienable aspect of life. Exposure Response Prevention is not suitable without a concrete foundation of OCD-focused CBT. I've heard many stories (I can add your therapist to this group as well) of therapists misunderstanding OCD and prescribing ERP in two harmful ways: 
  1. Using inappropriate and harmful techniques that unfortunately only strengthen the obsession they are designed to treat
  2. Using ERP too soon i.e. before patient has had time to understand their OCD using CBT

 

What is ERP?

ERP is such a small part of OCD treatment. It is a useful tool for testing what we have learned via CBT. Your ERP exercise was just not helpful and evidently very harmful. I don't know for sure what obsession it was trying to tackle, it isn't clear from the exercise, so I can't provide an alternative to illustrate what a proper ERP exercise should have been. I presume it was to do with an obsession regarding unpleasant thoughts about people you knew - thoughts of insulting them, harming them, fearing them, hating them, etc - the usual OCD stuff, with you thinking you are 'mad, bad, or dangerous to know'.

 

ERP is designed to help us learn that behaving in a way that suits our personality and is aspirational will not give rise to our fears. So if ERP is asking you to do something that you want to do but have avoided doing because of OCD, then it is appropriate. If it asks you to do something dangerous, uncharacteristic, costly, excessively time consuming, or just overtly inconvenient, then don't do it - it isn't right for you. ERP is meant to break down normal tasks and activities into manageable steps, then slowly increase their duration and/or intensity, until you are functional again. 

 

 

The cause of your OCD does not matter: you will need CBT

I am not here to argue whether SSRIs can cause OCD either through their consumption or abrupt withdrawal. I don't know for sure but as I mentioned above, there are many possible causes of OCD but discovering them with current scientific understanding is a fruitless task and won't really change the treatment options. 

I am not sure from your thread or signature when you first noticed OCD. It is an anxiety disorder so you could really trace its origins to when you felt anxiety became a consistent impediment in your life. However, whether you developed OCD after taking medication, before it, or as part of withdrawal, your treatment choice remains the same: you need CBT.

 

 

What if you don’t have OCD?

The abovementioned book will ask you some questions to help you determine if you have OCD. Most sufferers know that they have OCD because the evidence is just overwhelming. Typically, if it walks, talks, and acts like OCD, it probably is. OCD’s hallmark is anxiety (from apprehension to sheer terror and panic).

If you don’t have OCD then at worst you will just be bored by the abovementioned book and at best you will have great insight into the condition; it may also help you tackle anxiety in general should you have it.

 

 

Other help

I am not sure if the mods here will allow me to post a link to a great OCD forum so I will send this post to you in a DM, just in case. The mods here: http://www.ocdforums.org/ are some of the best people to help you with any questions you may have about OCD beyond the books, although they are only knowledgeable about OCD, so medication questions are not appropriate for them (in my opinion). In addition, not every OCD sufferer is a useful person to talk to: often they have not recovered sufficiently and due to their confusion can often provide misleading information as a result. 

 

SA is the best place to ask about psychiatric medication withdrawal that I've ever found

 

If you read this far, congratulations, I hope I made some sense! <3

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Distraut

I should just like to post an update about my 29 year old son Akrontes and ask for some advice and reassurance from other members of the Forum as it has been nearly seventeen months (since early May 2016) since he quit Sertraline (Zoloft) cold turkey and just over three months (since early June 2017) since he tapered down to his final small dose of Remiron (Mirtazapine) which he was prescribed when he spent 4 days in hospital in November 2016, but to date I see little progress in his anguished state and am wondering if I am doing the best for him.

 

At the same time he went to hospital in November 2016 and was prescribed Remiron, he also undertook some intensive ERP therapy for the OCD which I believe he first contracted on a previous cold turkey from Paxil but which is WAY more severe now, which involved him writing nasty things about twenty of his friends on scraps of paper and dropping them round the town.  Since then this has become a MAJOR obsession which distresses him nearly all his waking hours and churns around in his head in thousands of different scenarios.  He is convinced he is damned for eternity, that he has endangered his friends, that his life is destroyed, that he is going to hell and he just cannot get out of this vicious circle of thinking even though on one level he can see the damage he is doing to his immediate family.  It seems he cannot think of anything else apart from this and finds it difficult to distract himself or socialize.

 

He spends most of the daytime hours sleeping, I assume, in his room and is awake all night.  For a couple of days he may seem on the outside a little calmer (although he says he is still tormented inside) but then all hell breaks looks and he gets into a state of high agitation and rants about his predicament.  It is very distressing to see.

 

He has been going to weekly CBT sessions which he says do not help.  He has numerous self-help books which he cannot look at, nor can he look at other peoples' stories on this site and elsewhere because he says it terrorizes him.  He finds it hard to breathe or meditate when he is in a hyper-anxious state.  He says he wants to die but is afraid of dying in case he goes to Hell for eternity.  He sees no hope for the future and thinks he will never get better so I have to try and reassure him that his brain is out of kilter right now but that this is only temporary and he will return to normal reasoning with time.  But I would just love him to have some sort of decent window, which to date have been eluding him.  I think he is also suffering from depersonalization as he says he cannot feel emotion towards his family members.

 

He does not have too many physical symptoms, although occasionally complains of a head and neck ache or weakness in his arms and legs and this morning said he felt "shockwaves" throughout his body.  He does not want to try supplements, but eats quite well and seems to manage to sleep, albeit often with nightmares connected with his obsession.

 

I would be grateful if others could advice whether this OCD will pass by itself with the passage of time or whether it should be dealt with as a separate issue apart from WD, whether I should encourage him to get out and about more often rather than spending so much time closeted in his room or any other useful advise or information about how we can recognize that healing is taking place or how long it is likely to take.

 

Watching him suffer like this is taking its toll!

 

Thank you so much.

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nz11
6 hours ago, Distraut said:

so I have to try and reassure him that his brain is out of kilter right now but that this is only temporary and he will return to normal reasoning with time. 

Like a broken record just keep singing this song.

Is your son able to see this for himself.

Your son is lucky to have a family member as informed and helpful as you.

 

 

6 hours ago, Distraut said:

I would be grateful if others could advice whether this OCD will pass by itself with the passage of time or whether it should be dealt with as a separate issue apart from WD,

Although this looks like ocd,  imo it is in fact drug withdrawal which mimics many psychological distressers.

 

I can very much relate to what your son is experiencing and yes for me it receded with time.

We may be talking many many months, or in my case several years. Be patient and hold on it will slowly get better.

I can still remember my first ride on a rollercoaster it was terrifying ....but  eventually it came to a stop. 

 

imo I see this as more like a physical brain injury than a cognitive malfunction. As such CBT for acute wdl may as you have found be of little help. 

 

I'm not sure that encouraging your son to socialize at this point would be helpful it may in fact lead to embarrassing situations with people who are well meaning but dangerously clueless.

I spent about 18 months housebound and felt guilty about it at the time but in hindsight I now see it as an ok thing and in fact very protective for me. 

 

Withdrawal also has the ability to consume and fixate us with many erroneous false thoughts. It makes us think we are terrible unworthy people. The brain lies to us.

I would often chant back or speak out loud back to false thoughts which  at times helped me to endure them as uncontrollable and overwhelming and all consuming as they were.

I would say things like:

'that's not true' ...or

'that's not an option' or

'I'm not breaking the 6th commandment' or 

if your son is a person of faith ...it sounds like he is if he talks of hell....then .....saying,  'I have confessed my sins so God has forgiven me' so  that's the end of the matter anything contrary to this is a lie. (Having just suggested cbt is useless maybe  this is the ultimate piece of cbt !....or brain-washing !...literally).  

....etc.

It really is brutal and endless at times ..wdl is war....but eventually if you are patient and hang in there ...the enemy gives up and fades away and ....you win.

Withdrawal in some way seems to somehow cause the brain to turn against our very own selves and persecute us with overwhelming thoughts that we are terrible people and deserve to die blah blah blah. It is very terrifying and scary but these thoughts are lies straight from hell.   Don't fall for them.

 

 

Your son is lucky to have such a supportive family member as yourself.

nz11

 

 

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Distraut

nz11 Bless you!

 

I have shown your reply to my son and hope he will engage with you directly.  He does not believe what I say to him but maybe talking with others who have endured and survived this hell,  he may regain his courage and hope for the future.

 

 

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bhasski
21 hours ago, nz11 said:

Like a broken record just keep singing this song.

Is your son able to see this for himself.

Your son is lucky to have a family member as informed and helpful as you.

 

 

Although this looks like ocd,  imo it is in fact drug withdrawal which mimics many psychological distressers.

 

I can very much relate to what your son is experiencing and yes for me it receded with time.

We may be talking many many months, or in my case several years. Be patient and hold on it will slowly get better.

I can still remember my first ride on a rollercoaster it was terrifying ....but  eventually it came to a stop. 

 

imo I see this as more like a physical brain injury than a cognitive malfunction. As such CBT for acute wdl may as you have found be of little help. 

 

I'm not sure that encouraging your son to socialize at this point would be helpful it may in fact lead to embarrassing situations with people who are well meaning but dangerously clueless.

I spent about 18 months housebound and felt guilty about it at the time but in hindsight I now see it as an ok thing and in fact very protective for me. 

 

Withdrawal also has the ability to consume and fixate us with many erroneous false thoughts. It makes us think we are terrible unworthy people. The brain lies to us.

I would often chant back or speak out loud back to false thoughts which  at times helped me to endure them as uncontrollable and overwhelming and all consuming as they were.

I would say things like:

'that's not true' ...or

'that's not an option' or

'I'm not breaking the 6th commandment' or 

if your son is a person of faith ...it sounds like he is if he talks of hell....then .....saying,  'I have confessed my sins so God has forgiven me' so  that's the end of the matter anything contrary to this is a lie. (Having just suggested cbt is useless maybe  this is the ultimate piece of cbt !....or brain-washing !...literally).  

....etc.

It really is brutal and endless at times ..wdl is war....but eventually if you are patient and hang in there ...the enemy gives up and fades away and ....you win.

Withdrawal in some way seems to somehow cause the brain to turn against our very own selves and persecute us with overwhelming thoughts that we are terrible people and deserve to die blah blah blah. It is very terrifying and scary but these thoughts are lies straight from hell.   Don't fall for them.

 

 

Your son is lucky to have such a supportive family member as yourself.

nz11

 

 

@nz11

Very well said about the wdl. 

And I too think his OCD are the severe symptoms of  wdl that I too face... and have to be mindful not to give up to it.

 

@Distraut

I totally agree upon nz11 advice. And it feels grt when some family member trying to be informative and providing for support. 

In my case, they never tried to be inquisitive about this, even after I am giving them links to read.. they tried to ignore.

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Distraut

Dear Bhasski,

 

I too am following your story, wishing your anguish would pass and so sorry that your immediate family do not understand your suffering,

 

For what is is worth, I send you my best greetings and KNOW that with your courage and your online friends and supporters, you too will come out of this nightmare and find yourself in a better place. 

 

You WILL get better!!

 

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Kittygiggles

Hi Distraut,

 

I'm very sorry things didn't work out with CBT. I had such a strong hope that your son was suffering from OCD because CBT is so effective in treating it. However, I am learning all the time about the havoc that SSRIs can cause at all stages of starting, taking, and stopping them. My worst withdrawal symptom is neuro-emotions, in particular, neuro-irritability/anger, which is horrible to me as it is nothing like my personality. If I hadn't found this website and read all the accounts of irritability and anger being proven withdrawal symptoms, I would have thought I was losing my mind.

 

I admit I am still very ignorant about so many aspects of withdrawal but I think there is a possibility that there is such a thing as neuro-OCD, which confounds me but the fact that I experience neuro-emotions makes me open to this hypothesis. I think it is still worth your son trying, whenever he finds the strength, to read the book I recommended (which you have bought). However, what if this entire thing is the result of iatrogenesis? In this thread, from a place of torment and confusion granted, your son mentions perhaps having a level of OCD prior to taking some medication. OCD is often insidious and it is hard for a sufferer to pinpoint when it became a problem but often a person can identify OCD traits (such as various neuroses and of course, anxiety) throughout their life, even from childhood. 

 

It has taken a lot of thinking for me to get my head around the following concept, which nz11 has put succinctly:

On 9/16/2017 at 9:52 PM, nz11 said:

Although this looks like ocd,  imo it is in fact drug withdrawal which mimics many psychological distressers.

 

I can see how the habitual nature of OCD, oft entrenched in years of subconscious maladaptation, could be simulated by an anxious mind and placed permanently at the fore of a sufferer's consciousness by the chaos SSRI withdrawal causes. This leaves us with the question, how do we treat it? Perhaps this is a moment we can all discuss this and decide on a new thread for neuro-OCD and try to describe this complex state of mind and things that have helped alleviate it. If I can be of any use, as an almost fully recovered spontaneous-OCD sufferer (to the best of my knowledge I think spontaneous is the antonym for iatrogenic), I would be happy to help. 

 

I wish you the best Distraut and Akrontes and I am still available as always if I can help you. 

*hugs*

 

PS I am also sorry that the website below couldn't set aside their apparent bizarre pro-SSRI stance to help your son either. I had hoped they would focus on what they are good at (OCD and CBT). 

 

On 7/18/2017 at 2:23 AM, Kittygiggles said:

The mods here: http://www.ocdforums.org/ are some of the best people to help you with any questions you may have about OCD beyond the books, although they are only knowledgeable about OCD, so medication questions are not appropriate for them (in my opinion).

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Distraut

Thank you again for all your help and support Kittygiggles.

Quote

Perhaps this is a moment we can all discuss this and decide on a new thread for neuro-OCD and try to describe this complex state of mind and things that have helped alleviate it.

 

I really do think this would be helpful for fellow sufferers.  It is such a distressing condition, the self-loathing, the feelings of guilt without any foundation in fact and the despair about ever healing in the future.

 

 

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Distraut

A joyful update about my son, Akrontes, on whose behalf I have joined this forum.  Much to my great regret knowing what I now know, he has been clobbered with medication for a number of years until he stopped taking Zoloft(sertraline) cold turkey in May 2016 and rather plummeted to earth the following October when he had some ERP therapy for his severe OCD which worsened his condition considerably and he ended up on Remeron(mirtazapine) which luckily he managed to taper off over six months and is drug free since June this year.

 

It has been a horrendous time for him, and for the family and I to see him in such distress with constant ruminations, hyper-anxiety, rages, self harm, self loathing, feelings of hopelessness, wanting to die and isolating himself from family and friends.  But in the last week or so, in the 19th month off Zoloft and the 6th month off Remeron, we are suddenly seeing a marked difference in his thought processes.  He is beginning to make sense of his life again.  He feels different somehow. The thoughts are not so stuck in place and normal feelings are returning. If it had not been for this Forum (my grateful thanks to all those wonderful people here, in particular - nz11, kittigiggles, AliG, Scallywag, Alto, Skeeter, Tootsieroll, Buccaneers49 and my dear friend DrugFreeProf) we would not have known what was happening and he probably would have ended up back on medication again.

 

We have also realized how altered his thinking was during his years on medication and how they have numbed down many positive feelings of joy and satisfaction and how he has struggled to make sense of the world during the last 10 years. It is still early days, but I am now so optimistic that his severe OCD IS the result of past cold turkeys off various medications,  that this horrible affliction WILL pass and that he can finally enjoy an independent life, drug free from now on.

 

I do hope that he will soon be able to post himself in the Recovery Stories.

 

 

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ChessieCat

Hi Distraut,

 

That really is great news!  Thank you for letting us know.  Please say hello to Akrontes for me.

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Distraut

Thank you ChessieCat.  I will. 

 

Thanks also to you for being the first to point us in the right direction in understanding about withdrawal.

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AliG

Hi Distraut. This is a very encouraging update ~ you must be so relieved to see your son starting to recover.This is joyful because it has been such a difficult time for you both. I hope you continue to see improvement and please give him my best.

 

Ali

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Distraut

I posted a couple of weeks ago that my son Akrontes (on whose behalf I am posting on this Forum) seemed to be re-surfacing.  Unfortunately soon after he took a major dip and we have had mega anxiety, racing and intrusive thinking, calls to the ambulance service, howling in the house and in the park, insomnia, loss of appetite - all hell let loose unfortunately.   But yesterday, out of nowhere, calm seems to have returned.  He is sleeping during the night, having an early morning dip in the nearby lake, eating, socializing - it is all so bizarre and I am on tenterhooks to see whether it will continue and further improve.  It would be the greatest Christmas present EVER!  He is due to see the National Health psychiatrist this Friday for a routine 6 month check.  I fervently hope that he will be in great shape on that day and in a position to tell him that it is their medication which has landed him there and that he now wants to be discharged forever from their books.

 

Thank you so much for your support AliG.  :)

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AliG

Thanks Distraught for posting. I just saw your quick update on Powerback's thread and I'm so happy for you and Akrontes. Don't forget that there may still be windows and waves in the future, but obviously there has been so much progress, which is really wonderful, particularly at this time of the year. I really do hope, that it keeps up over the holidays and please let us know how he is, going forward. This just made my day ~ I'm so happy for you both.  :)  

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nz11

Just spotted this encouraging update.

Be careful because for a long time a person will be unable to load the cns with things as they did prior to drugs. So don't think that because there is a good day or two that we can now carry on as in the pre drug days. As AliG has said there will be windows AND waves.

 

Is the visit to the pdoc compulsory? 

If so then I hope you can attend the meeting with him. In fact please do attend with him. I would not allow him to be alone with these people. You can be his support person.

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 2:03 AM, Distraut said:

I fervently hope that he will be in great shape on that day and in a position to tell him that it is their medication which has landed him there

You need to be very careful here. Think carefully.

These people have the ability to turn feral if they perceive they are being blamed. Trust me.

While you are there please don't give them anything that they can use against you...eg do not cry or show signs of it, do not show signs of being angry...I think you know what I am saying.

Watch your language if you use words that start with 'a' or 'd' or 'ocd' when you are really talking about wdl symptoms then they will use these words against you. Bear in mind that from their lens wdl does not exist (beyond two weeks). 

 

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 2:03 AM, Distraut said:

and that he now wants to be discharged forever from their books

This will be the best xmas present ever.

 

Is the visit to the pdoc not compulsory?

Then consider if it is actually needed. 

My personal opinion is, regardless, he will leave with a label and a prescription. 

These people have nothing helpful or insightful to share they are coming from a position that is totally disconnected from reality. They are unable to admit they have caused harm and will blame (and label) the person and not the poison. 

 

On ‎11‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 10:35 PM, Distraut said:

It is still early days, but I am now so optimistic that his severe OCD IS the result of past cold turkeys off various medications,  that this horrible affliction WILL pass and that he can finally enjoy an independent life, drug free from now on.

:)

 

nz11

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Distraut

Thank you so much for that very useful advice nz11.  We will certainly bear this in mind.

 

:)

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Kittygiggles

Hi Distraut and Akrontes,

 

I am sorry I have been absent for some time. I was happy to read that Akrontes has had some good days. I would echo nz11's advice about being hyperaware of your impending audience with a psychiatrist, whose MO is likely very narrow and predictable.

 

Although it can seem like a broken record, reminding ourselves regularly that the windows and waves pattern happens throughout our withdrawal journey is so helpful. Learning to tide ourselves over the bad days is a skill that does get better but I will admit that bad days are still bad, no matter how you present them. We can still make them less impactful though, even a little goes a long way. From an OCD perspective (however much, if any, of his symptoms now mimic or represent that), anyone recovering (e.g. by going through CBT) must accept setbacks as a normal part of recovery. 

 

My hope is that Akrontes' bad days will reduce in both frequency and duration. I think this seems to be the case for most people and tends to happen incrementally. When a good day happens, no matter how fleeting, it cannot be denied by anything and should serve as a beacon of hope if we can bring ourselves to remember them. Here's a hypothesis I hope will become provable someday: if one good moment happens at any time after any wave of any intensity, it will certainly happen again no matter how our future waves present themselves. Believing in that has helped me anyway. 

 

I wish you longer and broader windows in the future. 

 

 

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akrontes

Hi I just went to see the psychiatrist today. It didn't go too well. In a practical sense it was maybe not a disaster. I don't think they are going to force anything on me. But from an emotional point of view it really threw me. He has told me to have a look at pregabalin and maybe clomipramine. I don't know what is wrong with me, I have been dreadful with this withdrawal. Instinctively I think I know I am not going to touch these things, but It is as if I am always trying to play devils advocate/contradict, especially with my Mum. I guess he managed to plant seeds of doubt in my mind, he was saying" the likelihood is if you don't do anything, in 10 years you will come and nothing will have improved and you would have missed out on life, still be living with your Mum etc. I can't stand society. Albeit I hope that I would not be the case in 10 years, I was still trying to contemplate whether that would be such a bad thing if in 10 years I had not achieved much in my life, if I was relatively serene in 10 years I don't see that as such a bad thing, maybe the two go hand in hand. What I mean is for me it would not be great but I could maye deal with living a not so expansive life(i.e maybe not even having a proper career) for example.  I think one of my biggest problems is with my Mother, as on the one hand I have always felt an ubelievable sense of loyalty to her, but them am riddled with doubts, obsessive but also psychological, which brings me to contradict her. All this on top of the unfortunate "predicament" that I have got myself into with this ongoing obession, which as mad as seems to everyone else, has alot more factors to it than it seems, and as some of you know trying to correct have made worse. Anyway, I regret not having put my faith into and believing this withdrawal more, I don't know how you guys do it. One thing though is I have an instinctive reluctance to go back on the medicine. The psychiatrist did seem to agree at least the ssri's could not be that suitable,a and especially that the paroxetine wasn't great. He was absolutely convinced when I asked him thought that they could not change your mind and have permanent effects etc. Saying this I don't really know what an earth is going on, on Sunday night I was smashing my head hard against a wall, this week has been slightly better, I don't think I will get over this though, I don't see how is possible. I do think that I may get better at dealing with things  though and  be able to survive maybe live this life a bit better though. When I am slightly bit better though like this week, I have to be very selective with my thinking, and seriously have to avoid thinking about things, for example withdrawal as i brings me into a place of conflict agian, recrimination, rumination etc. One thing for certain a primary objective would be at least to have noting to do with psychiatry even therapists, that would even be enough of an achievement for me, though I worry that trying that I will end up even more in their hands, hospitalised for example. Thank you for all your support in these months.

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Distraut

Please can someone who has experienced intense ruminations, feelings of guilt and nil self-worth and OCD - like thoughts which don't give a moment's peace give us some hope that these fade with time and will not last for ever!

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nz11
5 hours ago, Distraut said:

Please can someone who has experienced intense ruminations, feelings of guilt and nil self-worth and OCD - like thoughts which don't give a moment's peace give us some hope that these fade with time and will not last for ever!

In my (paroxetine wdl )experience they have and are fading.

Don't give up.

 

DFP makes a good point try to stay calm nonstressed and positive. 

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