Sarahbobear: could withdrawal symptoms also be from in consistent use of ssri?

[Sarahbobear]

Hello Survivors,

 

I am wondering if you could help me shed some light on my symptoms. I would really appreciate any thoughts on my condition as the doctors have not been able to figure it out.

 

I have had a spinal tap ruling out M.S. and 2 mri's of the head and neck, standard blood tests are normal.

 

9 months ago I had a series of stroke like episodes, intense fatigue and dizziness/vertigo and I ended up in emergency at least half a dozen times. It developed in to persistent dizziness and disequilibrium now going on strong for 9 months.

 

A few months before this happened I was tapering off 15-30 mg of remeron and I also was taking ativan occassionally, perhaps 3-4 times per month on average. I have had severe chronic insomnia all of my adult life (I am 44 years old) and I found that 15mg of remeron was no longer helping me sleep like it did in the past so I stopped taking it or took it intermitently. I figure I ended up sleeping on average 4 hours per night, many times not sleeping at all for days even. But when I had the ativan I was able to get a descent night sleep, which was about once per week. Then the doctor decided not to take away the ativan and I was not getting that one good night per week anymore which I think was keeping me afloat. Most of my adult life I have had chronic insomnia so I am not sure if these new neurological symptoms are related.

 

 I  started noticing that things did not look or seem right, or there was some spatial distortion and I had a general feeling of malaise leading up the weeks before I would experience the more intense dizziness/fatigue/stroke-like episodes.  I also started experiencing tingling in my legs and feet, electric shock like sensations in my head (mostly at night), severe hypoglycemia, muscle contractions, tachycardia, swinging blood pressure (now it's mostly low), intense fatigue and weakness that sometimes felt difficult to breathe,  feelings of travelling pressure in my head that sometimes would travel downwards in my body, a pressure in my torso like it was being crushed, heaviness in my legs, feeling like I am on an elevator or a boat, and other sensory distortions like having difficulty locating my feet in space. What made me concerned that it was MS was that my left foot felt like it had less feeling than the right at times I would wake up unable to move it for a few minutes - (it did not have the feeling of loss of blood sensation) but the foot feelings have passed. 

 

My doctor prescribed trazadone to help with sleep which has helped initially but I'm up to 150mg and often it doesn't work. When I add remeron it helps a little, but sometimes they both don't work for sleep. So I dont' take them consistently and at there has been days I haven't taken them at all because it seems the drugs don't really work anyway.

 

9 months later, mostly I am dizzy, like my brain can't catch up with my body movements or my balance and there is a light spinning sensation in my head, but sometimes my balance really gets bad.

 

I have been offered Effexor, but in the past it made me more of an insomniac and I really would rather get off the anti-depressants as I feel like they might be the problem... Even though I feel like I am living in a nightmare I would rather ride out this neurological melt-down and try to heal naturally.

 

Do my symptoms sound like it could anti-depressant withdrawal symptoms at all? And if so, is it possible to have permanent damage? I am concerned as this has no sign of letting up after 9 months. I am still as dizzy as ever. I have been taking remeron for about 7 years.

 

Thanks for reading!

 

 

 

[nz11]

Welcome to sa Sarah

 

You might like to checkout the list of symptoms from ads

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist

 

First things first

1. Are you able to do a drug signature listing drugs doses dates taper methods

2. Are you able to run all the drugs you are taking through the drugs interaction checker, this could provide some insight and then copy and paste here in your intro thread.

https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html

 

Not many in the medical profession acknowledge psychotropic drug withdrawal and are very dismissive of it. Yet no one knows a drug like the one who has swallowed it. This site is full of very similar stories and experiences,  real experience dismissed by doctors.

 

Its interesting that all those physical symptoms manifested after your taper.

You havent described how you did it but im guessing it was too fast. And a too fast taper will trigger physical and psychological symptoms including but not limited to sleep issues.

 

So glad you joined sa

Yes it sounds like wdl to me.

nz11

[Junglechicken]

On 2016-12-26 at 4:15 AM, Sarahbobear said:

...

 

9 months ago I had a series of stroke like episodes, intense fatigue and dizziness/vertigo and I ended up in emergency at least half a dozen times. It developed in to persistent dizziness and disequilibrium now going on strong for 9 months.

 

... I have had severe chronic insomnia all of my adult life (I am 44 years old) and I found that 15mg of remeron was no longer helping me sleep like it did in the past so I stopped taking it or took it intermitently. ...

 

 I  started noticing that things did not look or seem right, or there was some spatial distortion and I had a general feeling of malaise leading up the weeks before I would experience the more intense dizziness/fatigue/stroke-like episodes.  I also started experiencing tingling in my legs and feet, electric shock like sensations in my head (mostly at night), severe hypoglycemia, muscle contractions, tachycardia, swinging blood pressure (now it's mostly low), intense fatigue and weakness that sometimes felt difficult to breathe,  feelings of travelling pressure in my head that sometimes would travel downwards in my body, a pressure in my torso like it was being crushed, heaviness in my legs, feeling like I am on an elevator or a boat, and other sensory distortions like having difficulty locating my feet in space. What made me concerned that it was MS was that my left foot felt like it had less feeling than the right at times I would wake up unable to move it for a few minutes - (it did not have the feeling of loss of blood sensation) but the foot feelings have passed. 

...

Do my symptoms sound like it could anti-depressant withdrawal symptoms at all? And if so, is it possible to have permanent damage? I am concerned as this has no sign of letting up after 9 months. I am still as dizzy as ever. I have been taking remeron for about 7 years.

 

Thanks for reading!

So another person experiencing hypoglaecemic episodes and heaviness in the legs.

 

I have had many of these, and each time my blood sugar gets tested? Nothing wrong.

 

The legs like lead is really strange, never had anything like that before WD.

 

Sounds like you are having a rough ride. This is a hellish journey, that there is no doubt.

 

Hugs,

JC

Edited June 13, 2017 by scallywag
trimmed quote to relevant portions

[Sarahbobear]

Thank-you for your replies. 

 

I wanted to add that over the 9 months I've taken both trazadone and remeron, but it has been a bit inconsistent and I have chronic dizziness, disequilibrium, etc. Could it be that I am experiencing symptoms from the actual drugs themselves? because I haven't actually withdrawn from remeron. I take trazodone occasionally when the remeron doesn't work for sleep. I would like to withdraw from them but I can't sleep without it. (I couldn't sleep before I began taking it 7 years ago either.) I've had severe chronic insomnia since a teen.  Remeron has been the only drug that has worked other than ativan. Also when I say I don't sleep, I really mean I don't sleep at all for days...  Just looking for some insight into this as technically I don't think I've actually withdrawn from use.

[Dez]

Hello, Sarahbobear!

 

I don't know much about the medicines that you're on but maybe the inconsistency of taking the meds are the problem? Maybe they're having reactions to each other?

 

I know someone on here will be able to provide answers, so hang in there! I'm sorry this has happened and hope that you will get through it soon!

[Sarahbobear]

Thank-you!

 

Before the big crash or stroke-like episodes that left me with many chronic symptoms, I definatley tapered off the remeron too fast... but when I ended up in the hospital for a week, they upped my dose of remeron and I went back up to 30mg for a bit. I was not getting any better at this dose over the next month, or possibly worse and I remember asking the pharmacy if it was possible there was a bad batch of remeron. I went down to 15 mg for a couple months, then my doctor added trazodone so I could taper off  the remeron. I recently had the stomach flu and I could not get anything down including the trazodone for two days and I noticed I was less dizzy. Then when I took it and wham 40 minutes later all my symptoms and more came back full force. So I am cutting out the trazodone and back on 15 mg of remeron. (back to where I started)

 

Which leaves me wondering if you can develop an adverse reaction to a drug several years later... perhaps my liver just says no now...

[Dez]

Sarah,

 

How are you feeling? Any better?

 

I suppose in this situation annoying is possible. Maybe you could have a reaction several years later, as the body chemistry does change with age. These medications aren't really studied for years and years so no one really knows the long term effects. Except us, I guess.

 

I was on Celexa many years, then stopped a few months, then went back on it and it became a nightmare. I can no longer touch SSRIs or SNRIs. Each one I've tried to make my symptoms better just make then ten times worse! Now that I'm off of them I'm still stabilizing and healing, but it's not nearly as bad as before.

 

Wishing you healing!

[Sarahbobear]

Thank-you. I just went 4 days with absolutely no sleep. I finally got 2 hours last night. I ordered some phenibut and took a small dose, then added 7.5 mg of remeron at 2am and that wasn't working until I took 300mg of benadryl at 7am. I woke up at 10am. Before the 4 days of sleep I was not sleeping either. I probably went that long before I took 15mg of remeron. A year ago when I was taking remeron at 15mg to 30mg,  I would get 2-3 hours of sleep. For 7 years, Remeron saved my life, now it's not working. Before remeron I had no life... severe chronic insomnia, now it's worse. Ilast year I started only getting 2 hours of sleep per night, so I was tapering off it, then the massive withdrawal symptoms set it, so I went back on it for 9 months, but as I was taking it, I realized it was the drug causing adverse effects. I've been dizzy for 10 months, plus a host of other neurological effects. I know now it's the remeron, because if I don't take it my dizziness gets better, but I can't sleep at all.

 

Last time I slept more than 2 hours was before Christmas. I am really scared.  Everytime I get near to the threshold of sleep I am super aware and cannot go beyond it. I am like that all night.

 

Anybody has suggestions for sleep. I've been a severe chronic insomniac my whole life, but this is a whole new level. I am not sleeping at all and now my heart it starting to kick out a bit and I'm hallucinating. I've been to emergency. I was offered zopiclone 7.5 mg and it doesn't work. It never did work before  I started remeron.

 

I know I have extremely high histamine levels according to a blood test from a naturopath when I got tested several years ago. This may be my problem. I've been trying to get a doa blocker, but everywhere is consistently out of stock. I've been trying for months, it's so popular now because everybody thinks they have histmaine intolerance. But I can't get my hands on some. I'm not sure if it will work anyways.

 

I've tried every sleep aid known to man at huge doses as regular doses don't do anything. I've downed a whole bottle of extra strength valerian tincture in the last few days few days to no effect. I've tried restricted sleep therapy to no effect. On top of histamine I think I have way too much glutamate. I probably have a methylation problem that doesnt convert to gaba. That's what I'm guessing.

 

I thought perhaps I have sporadic fatal insomnia but I've had it my whole life, so it can't be that, but I've never heard of anyone that has this severe insomnia. 

[JanCarol]

Hey Sarabobear - I'm so sorry that a moderator hasn't gotten with you before now.  Are you feeling any better?

 

Yes, your symptoms, as NZ11 pointed out, could be from withdrawal.

 

It is more likely to be withdrawal (especially since you took the drugs irregularly) than side effects of the drugs themselves.

 

Once you get into this destabilized state, it is difficult to stabilise, as you have noticed.  

 

The best thing to do is to pick a dose of the drugs, and stay there.  Don't increase or decrease for 1-3 months.  Then, hopefully, you can stabilize and taper and heal from there.

 

Please, put your current doses in your signature, and your best estimates at what drugs and doses you took in the past year.   When we have your signature and history in one place, it is much easier to help you.

Please Put Your WIthdrawal History Into your Signature

 

Here are some explanations of how withdrawal and these drugs work.  There are many people here tapering remeron and trazadone, so you are not alone.

 

Intro to Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome

Withdrawal Dialogues - cartoons to encourage you

 

and here is a short video which explains it very well:

Healing from Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery (by Toxic Antidepressants)

 

We recommend tapering by 10% per month.  

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Here are topics about your specific drugs:

Tips for Tapering off Remeron / Mirtazapine / Avanza

Tips for Tapering off Trazodone

 

Please let us know how you are going, and if we can be of further help!

 

I hope you see the sun today!

[Bluebird2009]

Hello Survivors,

 

I am wondering if you could help me shed some light on my symptoms. I would really appreciate any thoughts on my condition as the doctors have not been able to figure it out.

 

I have had a spinal tap ruling out M.S. and 2 mri's of the head and neck, standard blood tests are normal.

 

9 months ago I had a series of stroke like episodes, intense fatigue and dizziness/vertigo and I ended up in emergency at least half a dozen times. It developed in to persistent dizziness and disequilibrium now going on strong for 9 months.

 

A few months before this happened I was tapering off 15-30 mg of remeron and I also was taking ativan occassionally, perhaps 3-4 times per month on average. I have had severe chronic insomnia all of my adult life (I am 44 years old) and I found that 15mg of remeron was no longer helping me sleep like it did in the past so I stopped taking it or took it intermitently. I figure I ended up sleeping on average 4 hours per night, many times not sleeping at all for days even. But when I had the ativan I was able to get a descent night sleep, which was about once per week. Then the doctor decided not to take away the ativan and I was not getting that one good night per week anymore which I think was keeping me afloat. Most of my adult life I have had chronic insomnia so I am not sure if these new neurological symptoms are related.

 

I started noticing that things did not look or seem right, or there was some spatial distortion and I had a general feeling of malaise leading up the weeks before I would experience the more intense dizziness/fatigue/stroke-like episodes. I also started experiencing tingling in my legs and feet, electric shock like sensations in my head (mostly at night), severe hypoglycemia, muscle contractions, tachycardia, swinging blood pressure (now it's mostly low), intense fatigue and weakness that sometimes felt difficult to breathe, feelings of travelling pressure in my head that sometimes would travel downwards in my body, a pressure in my torso like it was being crushed, heaviness in my legs, feeling like I am on an elevator or a boat, and other sensory distortions like having difficulty locating my feet in space. What made me concerned that it was MS was that my left foot felt like it had less feeling than the right at times I would wake up unable to move it for a few minutes - (it did not have the feeling of loss of blood sensation) but the foot feelings have passed.

 

My doctor prescribed trazadone to help with sleep which has helped initially but I'm up to 150mg and often it doesn't work. When I add remeron it helps a little, but sometimes they both don't work for sleep. So I dont' take them consistently and at there has been days I haven't taken them at all because it seems the drugs don't really work anyway.

 

9 months later, mostly I am dizzy, like my brain can't catch up with my body movements or my balance and there is a light spinning sensation in my head, but sometimes my balance really gets bad.

 

I have been offered Effexor, but in the past it made me more of an insomniac and I really would rather get off the anti-depressants as I feel like they might be the problem... Even though I feel like I am living in a nightmare I would rather ride out this neurological melt-down and try to heal naturally.

 

Do my symptoms sound like it could anti-depressant withdrawal symptoms at all? And if so, is it possible to have permanent damage? I am concerned as this has no sign of letting up after 9 months. I am still as dizzy as ever. I have been taking remeron for about 7 years.

 

Thanks for reading!

This sounds like exactly what I started to go through while still on Prozac, and it started to get to the point other drugs where having no effect. It does sound like withdrawal as I'm now off 10mtha and suffering terribly with lots of symptoms. Take care