blackhill4: Finally back :) withdrawal continues after 3 years 1 month

[MollyN]

I'm just popping in to say I'm so glad you're here and I hope for all it's worth that your brain can be soothed with passing time and healing, very best wishes

[blackhill4]

Thanks molly, Petu I have an important question. What do you suggest I should eat during my wd? do you have any suggestions? I tried to eat lays chips but got ill, coffee is the worst, and sugar makes me sick. Should I go fruits and vegetables? Maybe meat? And what other supplements might you be able to recommend?

[Altostrata]

Welcome, blackhill.

 

The best things to eat to help your body and nervous system recover are fresh vegetables, organic meats, whole grains, and minimal artificial flavorings, sugar, and caffeine.

[blackhill4]

Thanks alto. Is it strange to have a sudden worsening in symptoms because they seem to be more severe daily. I'm afraid they will continue to get worse and I cant go back on the meds because they make me sick. God this is horrible...

[blackhill4]

I think organic meats may be too expensive, if I cant afford them what can I use as a substitute? Also does it matter how anything is cooked?

[blackhill4]

In one of my eyes the pupil is bigger ( recently and during time on the meds and early wd), my vision in this eye is also blurred. This only happens some of the time but wondering if anyone else had this.

[DLB]

Had it every time I started pax and ct . Now after a 13 month taper from 10 mg. I had it only when I felt real bad at 2.3 or 2.7 mg. I can't remember, but I can tell you for sure it NEVER happened in my life until 2 days after starting this crap in 03 . I was already in bad shape from a levaquin reaction and then was given paxil and I got the one bigger pupil and that scared me even worse. I have read of at least a dozen people with the same thing.

[blackhill4]

weird huh? I think it's med related for sure now though. Thank for the response man. According to your sig you've been through hell like me. Unfortanately I am going through worsening symptoms I really hope is just a wave and not worsening symptoms of protracted wd

[blackhill4]

After about a month of feeling horrible the last few days have been much better ( still not great). But I am very relieved it's easing somewhat.

[blackhill4]

I feel like I am going completely insane! is this normal?

[Petunia]

Hi blackhill,

Feeling a little better for a while and then feeling worse again is the normal pattern of recovery.  This may help explain it:

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery

[blackhill4]

The thing is I don't know if I have ever had a window yet. I think over the first twelve months I felt a bit better sometimes but it was hard to tell. Then suddenly my symptoms get much worse very fast.

[blackhill4]

And I mean my symptoms are worse than ever right now.

[blackhill4]

I have a question. A few days ago I had a period 12 am to 3 am where I felt much better. I felt almost normal ( not completely though) was this a window?

[blackhill4]

It seems anything I eat right now gives me weird feelings.  Although eating healthy I have much less fever. Any thoughts?

[Petunia]

I have a question. A few days ago I had a period 12 am to 3 am where I felt much better. I felt almost normal ( not completely though) was this a window?

 

This may have been a window, but many people do tend to feel better towards the evening or at night.  Have you noticed any pattern to your symptoms?  Feeling normal, even for a short time is a good sign of recovery.

 

It seems anything I eat right now gives me weird feelings.  Although eating healthy I have much less fever. Any thoughts?

 

What kinds of weird feelings?  Unusual reactions to food and eating is quite common in withdrawal and will pass.  Its good that your fever is reducing.

[blackhill4]

Well I found out eating too much increases my symptoms quite a bit. So if I eat smaller amounts throughout the day I feel much better. Patterns? Well... anxiety and dread in the day, crazy feeling at night( only some nights ).  I'm still trying to figure out if I have even experienced a window or not. It was very brief so not sure you know? A lot of symptoms form my early wd/adverse effect have returned, I was drinking a lot of caffeine when I should not have been though. I believe this is why I am suffering so much lately. ( no caffeine for 2 months now)

[blackhill4]

How bad should I be shaking because its pretty bad right now.

[Fresh]

Hi  blackhill  , however much you shake , it eventually passes.    That's a wave.   All the bad symptoms will come and go , and vary in intensity at different times.

This seems to be everyone's pattern of withdrawal.

 

It sound from your descriptions of inner turmoil and getting relief from walking , like you have akathisia.    There's information on this in the "Symptoms and Self-Care" section.

 

I had problems eating during my w/d too ( I lasted 11 months after my last dose in a too-fast taper), and am happy to share ideas on maintaining good nutrition  if you want to message me.

 

This is the time to employ all your best distraction techniques -  t.v. , you-tube , relaxation/meditation cd's , walking , whatever works for you.  It's going to pass , just like all the other times.   Tell yourself that often.

 

Very best wishes ,   Fresh

[blackhill4]

Ok fresh but I'm not sure how to message you directly yet. I just find this strange that my symptoms are worse after 14 months when I seemed to be improving before. Then all of a sudden my symptoms got much worse... very scared this will last for years.

[coldturkmama]

Sounds like an intense wave, just keep saying this too shall pass....and it will.

[luv2knit]

Hello, blackhill. I am 6 1/2 months out from a MUCH too rapid taper off 100 mg. Zoloft (basically not much different from cold turkey).

 

I am relatively new here as well, and not very experienced with WD, Many of your symptoms are very similar to mine, however. I do agree with Fresh that you are experiencing akathisia. The best way I can describe it is sort of like "restless legs" all over the body. You feel the need to move--pace, rock, whatever--and can get very agitated, and irritable, and have impulsive thoughts of harming yourself or others. While akathisia is considered a "movement disorder", to me, the psychological aspects of it are much more troublesome. Initially, I thought this was anxiety, but then realized there was so much more to it than that. It is my understanding that akathisia is quite common in rapid tapers, and cold turkeys. They say it eventually goes away for everyone, so I am holding on to this. They also say that everything that gets better for a time will eventually get better for good. It does sound like you have definitely had some windows.

 

After about a month of feeling horrible the last few days have been much better ( still not great). But I am very relieved it's easing somewhat.[/

 

What you described in the above post definitely sounded like a window to me. Eventually these will come more frequently! Try to hang in there! This is definitely the most difficult thing I have been through in my 60 years!!

[blackhill4]

Now officially 15 months off paxil.

[Fresh]

That's wonderful news blackhill.    

 

Hang in there dude.

[Petunia]

 I just find this strange that my symptoms are worse after 14 months when I seemed to be improving before. Then all of a sudden my symptoms got much worse... very scared this will last for years.

 

How long have your symptoms been worse for?  As coldturkmamma wrote, this is probably a wave.  Have you seen our windows and waves topic?  Here is a link to it:

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery

 

If you were improving, and now have a return of symptoms, this is quite normal and how recovery usually happens.  The fact that you started to feel better is a good sign.  Congratulations on being paxil free for 15 months 

[blackhill4]

Alright I think I should explain more thoroughly. When I quit the paxil I had severe symptoms for around 2 months. And now when I think back I was not doing very well even up to my severe wave I am experiencing. My symptoms seemed to get better slowly after the first 2 months until I did something very foolish, I started to drink pepsi which made me shake a little but I thought nothing of it. Then I began to drink coffee and tea too, and I was stressing over dumb stuff constantly ( this I do normally though). Then in November I started to feel strange, I got a feeling in my head like someone put something large through my skull, in December my light sensitivity started to come back and first signs of agitation and feeling insane (new to me). January they got much worse and first signs of food sensitivity( also new), light perception changes, mild hallucinations ( had these two on the meds ). Dilated pupils( one bigger) came back, derealisation came back, hard to feel good at all, hard to relax, feel like im going to flip out. Most of these symptoms (minus agitation/ crazy feeling) were present on the paxil. So my symptoms have been increasingly getting worse since November. Can a wave last that long? And I have never had a wave this sever, it feels even worse then in the beginning. I think I am either having a huge wave and my body is making a big push to heal ( some symptoms have improved oddly enough). I had a setback (this is what I suspect). Or my withdrawal is just getting started ( I doubt this however, I had very vivid nightmares day two off the meds and aggression). So any thoughts? p.s. Feb is a little better.

[blackhill4]

I hope I am explaining this well enough and thank you petunia.

[Petunia]

You've explained it well blackhill.  I suspect that this setback may have been caused by you starting to use caffeine again too soon, I'm just guessing, but it does seem likely.  Are you still drinking pepsi and coffee etc?

 

The course of recovery can be quite unpredictable and certainly not linear.  A bad 3 month wave after several good months is not unheard of, from my observations, these longer kinds of set backs are often caused by something which upsets the nervous system.  If you've had lasting improvement in some symptoms, I wouldn't say your recovery is just starting.

 

If I were you, I would cut out the caffeine again, minimize stress the best you can and browse through the  Symptoms and self-care   section for some ideas to get yourself back on track.

 

Many people find  fish oil and magnesium helpful, see King of Supplements: Omega 3 Fatty Acids (Fish Oil) and Magnesium, Nature's Calcium Channel Blocker

[blackhill4]

Well Petunia I haven't had any caffeine since November ( and very little sugar). I started to eat healthy just after my symptoms started to peak, It really helps my fevers and agitation( my most hated symptom). Does a setback mean I will take much longer to recover now? I hope not because that would be pretty rough.

[blackhill4]

Just a note: anyone else get a feeling like you are hanging upside down? ( like all the blood is going to your head) I think it could be blood pressure related.

[Fresh]

Hey  blackhill , that will be the akathisia - I remember the first time it hit me like a mac truck .

 

I felt my head was so full of pressure , it was scary cause I'd never had that sensation before. (This happened 7 months after last dose of Cymbalta in july 2013).

At the same time by body was filled with pressure - I videoed myself and said "I feel like a power walker".  Charging up and down my living room ( I note your previous references to agitation , needing to walk).   It also explains feelings of panic and dread you've had.

  

Read the thread on akathisia and see what you think.

 

Fresh

[JanCarol]

Hey Blackhill, just stopping by to say welcome!

 

From looking at your whole story, it seems like you've gone through withdrawal and rebounds on at least three separate occasions.  I think your Serotonin Syndrome could easily have been instigated by the previous withdrawal - as well as the emotional events that preceded the citalopram.  That can be harder on your brain than if you'd stayed on the drugs constantly.  Alto says our brains are not like rubber bands and can't handle these extreme states without a price.

 

I'm sorry you are paying that price.  I'm doubly sorry that you had NO IDEA going into it that it was so risky.  That's criminal.

 

But here's the awesomeness side of the coin - your body is shaking itself free, your nervous system is healing.  That's why it hurts so much!  But -  like a pendulum, it will swing back and forth between these awful symptoms before it finally settles in the middle.

 

The advantage of shaking, is your body can also use that mechanically to process old trauma.  Trauma is encoded in our bodies and brains when "Flight" or "fight" doesn't work.  Shaking, can release these memories and make you free of them.

 

I think you've seen a window - even if it was a tiny glimpse in the middle of the night.  Hope that the sun will shine upon you again.

 

And you're learning to listen to yourself.  About the caffeine, about the multiple small meals in a day, about connections between eating and symptoms.  Some of us take YEARS to learn simple things like that.  The rules are different for each of us - and we can only find them out by listening to our bodies.

 

So - do you live at home? Can you work?  Drive? What does your day look like right now?

 

Other things which will help your brain heal:  

• epsom salt baths, not too hot, around 20 min at a time.
•  walking, the tick-tock motion of your steps is really good for getting your systems to start working together.  Even a short 5 minute walk is better than 5 minutes on the couch!
• studying - when you are able, learn as much as you can about what is happening to you.  SA is a great place to learn, and a launching pad for even greater learning.  I can't tell you what to study, maybe you will study trauma, how the past affects your present state, or open dialogue (family), or yoga, or meditation, or Ayurveda.  Maybe you will, like some of us, be angry enough to study activism, and the crimes done in the name of "medicine" and especially, "pharmacy."  But whatever your interest, it will help heal you to follow a passion, and study is, at least for me, easy to be passionate about.

 

(I would not encourage you to read too many people's Intro stories until you are feeling better - focus on the forum and success stories, or links that mods have given you.  Sorry, I have no links today - but express an interest in something, and I'll be happy to send you places!   )

 

It's ALSO totally awesome that your psychotherapist is on board.  Here is a tip for you (I heard Will Hall recommend it, and it is working for me).  As you stabilize, your psychotherapist can comment to your psychiatrist how much better you are now that you are off the drugs, and based on the reactions you had, it is not recommended that you take any more drugs.  My psychotherapist writes regular letters to my psychiatrist, and it helps my cause immensely, as I'm tapering, and need the psychiatrist to prescribe.  I don;t think you need to go there - your serotinin reaction has probably made you so sensitive that the tiniest reinstatement would be extremely challenging.  And you need a break, not a challenge.

 

So - I got long winded on a rainy cyclone night - I hope you see your next window soon.  Remember it might just be a glimpse, a bird, a piece of sky, or the softness of a pet, or the compassion you may feel for another human.  It might only last 30 seconds - but if you pay attention, you will be there for it.  And when the windows start coming, it becomes easier to hope.

[blackhill4]

The agitation is unbearable I just don't know. This has to stop soon, I cant do it anymore...

[luv2knit]

Understand, blackhill. The akathisia can be unbearable when it ramps up high like that Hope this settles soon.

[Prestorb]

Welcome blackhill, you are in the right place for support and encouragement. And you are young and already off the meds for a considerable amount of time. Hang in there and look for inspiration to get you through this. There is a lot of helpful info on this site to help you too. You have much of your life in front of you, I will pray that you can get through this!

[blackhill4]

Thanks guys . It was pretty bad earlier, now I just feel sick. And the intrusive thoughts can be torture. I am still here somehow though. uggghhh... so exhausting. And every day I feel different, that can be tough.