powerback: tapering no 2

[powerback]

48 minutes ago, Junglechicken said:

Hi PB,

 

Just caught up with your thread, and see you're in a really bad place - your partner thinking about walking away and experiencing SI at that wedding.

 

I can tell you to "hang in there" and all that "stuff".......you probably don't feel like hearing it so I'll lay off.

 

You're not alone in your suffering, I'm not in a good place myself.

 

Sending you hugs and thinking of you.

 

JC xx

 

 

It's ok jc thanks for your input ,I'm sitting here in the sun wondering if the tumeric capsule I took is causing me serious brain fog and slight nausea.its a pukka brand ,I'le lay off it tomorrow .

SI wasn't bad at the wedding , everything else was going bad at me .I will never put myself in  that situation again .

Commiserations your in a wave .

We keep up the fight because it will never be futile .

I've got a good spot in the sun ,I'le take that for now .

Take care 

[powerback]

1 hour ago, dj2010 said:

 

be careful with the keto, don't want to stress your body any more, its a very tough diet, seeing quite a lot of negative article about it recently but these may be coming from doctors etc, its difficult deciding which articles and people to believe these days, 

 

heading out soon myself as not had a walk yet today, missed morning walk as daughter had blood test

 

yeh kids off late July so preparing for chaos, probably put them in a holiday club for a few days a week,

 

no not rushing the marathon at moment, still only doing light jogging but only just started again after them few bad weeks had,

 

hope you get a nice walk in the sun today

Ye I get you about the keto ,I believe my system has been to used to sugar fuel my entire life .I only see food as fuel now .I'le get my pleasure elswere.

I've done loads of research and nothing has stood  out other than keep at it .

I went through lots of the keto summit and took notes .

I'm doing 3 meals a day and liquid caleries ,my middle is holding weight because of stress .

I'le stick to complex carbs .

Take care .

 

 

 

 

[manymoretodays]

Hey......thinking of you too PB.  It can be tough, eh?  Relationships can be so very healing.

 

I'm kind of in the same place except with stable housing and 3 months out from the actual "break up".  Then he died, which was unexpected.  I just always thought he would be in the periphery cheering me on, encouraging, etc.  In some ways he is.  And so......onward I go.

 

Just wanted to stop in and send some hugs.  It'll get easier soon.  Sounds trite.  I'm turning the corner myself a bit now and so..........will you!!

......I'll be rooting for just the right living situation to come up very soon for you..........

 

Love, peace, healing/inrecovery, and growth,

mmt

 

 

[powerback]

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

Hey......thinking of you too PB.  It can be tough, eh?  Relationships can be so very healing.

 

I'm kind of in the same place except with stable housing and 3 months out from the actual "break up".  Then he died, which was unexpected.  I just always thought he would be in the periphery cheering me on, encouraging, etc.  In some ways he is.  And so......onward I go.

 

Just wanted to stop in and send some hugs.  It'll get easier soon.  Sounds trite.  I'm turning the corner myself a bit now and so..........will you!!

......I'll be rooting for just the right living situation to come up very soon for you..........

 

Love, peace, healing/inrecovery, and growth,

mmt

 

 

Thanks MMT your kind and thoughtful .you broke up and then he died OMG ,such a shock for you .sorry for your loss .

We had 25 degree heat today and that's welcomed and amazing for us in Ireland so I had a lovely relaxing sit in it.

Thanks for the hugs ,rite back at you .

Take care . 

  

 

[dj2010]

how you doing today PB? 

[powerback]

8 minutes ago, dj2010 said:

how you doing today PB? 

Hi DJ the usual anxiety and some internal shaking, but a bit better than the last 10 days .off for a walk in the sun and mybe a little climb if the body allows it lol 

My dreams are back to being very vivid with all the scenarios of life 

Take care my freind.

I'm glad the antibiotics did the trick for you 

[dj2010]

1 hour ago, powerback said:

Hi DJ the usual anxiety and some internal shaking, but a bit better than the last 10 days .off for a walk in the sun and mybe a little climb if the body allows it lol 

My dreams are back to being very vivid with all the scenarios of life 

Take care my freind.

I'm glad the antibiotics did the trick for you 

glad your a little better, hope you have a nice walk, be careful if climbing

 

take care

[Sunnyday]

Hi powerback. I don't make a lot of noise on this forum apart from my own thread because I find socializing a bit scary. 😛 But I hope your situation will get better soon. Relationships can be very difficult during all this.

I mostly wanted to say that from reading some of your thread you come off as very strong and brave to me. I admire you!  

 

[powerback]

1 hour ago, Sunnyday said:

Hi powerback. I don't make a lot of noise on this forum apart from my own thread because I find socializing a bit scary. 😛 But I hope your situation will get better soon. Relationships can be very difficult during all this.

I mostly wanted to say that from reading some of your thread you come off as very strong and brave to me. I admire you!  

 

Hi SD nice to meet you, well socializing is nearly impossible in withdrawal so don't worry about it but your safe here especially longer members because there's no judgement but i totally understand  I've had to apologise a few times because I can be so sensetivite ,so annoying . 

I'le put stubborn also 😀.

Thanks there kind words to hear .

[powerback]

3 hours ago, dj2010 said:

glad your a little better, hope you have a nice walk, be careful if climbing

 

take care

😁,It's not much ,I like the bit I do ,it keeps my legs strong (I hope ).

I'm getting better at relaxing rather than pushing too far.

Take care .

[powerback]

Update.today has been a much better day than the last 10 days ,the wedding took a lot out of me emotionally .

I soaked up great feelings on a little hike today [only 30 mins ] I jumped around with just my shorts on ,felt free as bird 😂.

I've been overwhelmed with goose bumps listening to music today  .

Anyway I feel I needed to update because I was in such a state over the wedding and the support my friends gave me here is priceless.

I was nearly going for a benzo the other day so it will go in the memory bank its not needed for my case .

Remember your worth every second of the effort .

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by powerback

[wantrelief]

This is great to hear, PB.  Happy to hear you had a much better day.  It makes sense that the wedding took a lot out of you and you needed some time to recover.

[powerback]

10 minutes ago, wantrelief said:

This is great to hear, PB.  Happy to hear you had a much better day.  It makes sense that the wedding took a lot out of you and you needed some time to recover.

Ye it was a lesson WR  but I had to go ,it will  serve me well in the future ,I've opened up old connections and the groom is a close friend for a long time  .

Just nice quiet walks for the summer and keep on the no sugar and low carbs.tonight in this window I want to book a holiday but I better be careful lol.

Thanks for your worries ,make them into a hug for yourself from me 😀.

Hope your well .

[dj2010]

11 hours ago, powerback said:

Update.today has been a much better day than the last 10 days ,the wedding took a lot out of me emotionally .

I soaked up great feelings on a little hike today [only 30 mins ] I jumped around with just my shorts on ,felt free as bird 😂.

I've been overwhelmed with goose bumps listening to music today  .

Anyway I feel I needed to update because I was in such a state over the wedding and the support my friends gave me here is priceless.

I was nearly going for a benzo the other day so it will go in the memory bank its not needed for my case .

Remember your worth every second of the effort .

 

 

this is great to hear PB, you deserve some peace,

 

watched a interesting documentary on BBC last night called "truth about carbs" which you might like, you probably know most of the stuff explained in it but still might be worth a watch, shows how to do a home test to see how well you metabolise carbs which determines if you need to avoid them or not, not sure if you can get BBC i player in Ireland or not though, link below:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b5y6c0

 

hope you are feeling good again today,

 

take care

[powerback]

2 hours ago, dj2010 said:

 

this is great to hear PB, you deserve some peace,

 

watched a interesting documentary on BBC last night called "truth about carbs" which you might like, you probably know most of the stuff explained in it but still might be worth a watch, shows how to do a home test to see how well you metabolise carbs which determines if you need to avoid them or not, not sure if you can get BBC i player in Ireland or not though, link below:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b5y6c0

 

hope you are feeling good again today,

 

take care

Your correct DJ I cant get bbc iplayer .ye I was the consultant on the documentary 🤣.I couldn't help myself with that joke .

Sound DJ  Ile find it ,I'm obsessed with documentary's .everything I'm reading points to food intolerance tests for people in the future .

especially children if they have conditions or illness .if people are cleaning up there diets they need to be doing the same for there kids I think .

Take care my friend ,have a nice weekend . 

[dj2010]

43 minutes ago, powerback said:

Your correct DJ I cant get bbc iplayer .ye I was the consultant on the documentary 🤣.I couldn't help myself with that joke .

Sound DJ  Ile find it ,I'm obsessed with documentary's .everything I'm reading points to food intolerance tests for people in the future .

especially children if they have conditions or illness .if people are cleaning up there diets they need to be doing the same for there kids I think .

Take care my friend ,have a nice weekend . 

 

found more on the carb intolerence test here, looks like its quite a well known test, will be buying some crackers later to test it:

 

 

your right about getting kids to clean up their diets, I have been trying to clean up my kids diets for a long time now, it is really difficult with them as so fussy but managed to get them eating loads of fruit and vegetables and also got them on fish oil every day, I don't think many people realise or value the importance of diet until they lose their health and forced to clean it up like us lot

 

have a good weekend yourself, get out for some nice hikes in that sun

 

take care

[Carmie]

Hi Powerback,

 

Just watched your video. I don’t eat grains at all but I wonder if you can do this test with potatoes🥔🍠😂

 

Enjoy your quiet walks and your holiday. It’s soothing being in nature and a change of scenery does us good too. Planning things is fun too. 

 

Hope you’re faring okay💚💚

[Sunnyday]

On 6/7/2018 at 5:37 PM, powerback said:

Hi SD nice to meet you, well socializing is nearly impossible in withdrawal so don't worry about it but your safe here especially longer members because there's no judgement but i totally understand  I've had to apologise a few times because I can be so sensetivite ,so annoying . 

I'le put stubborn also 😀.

Thanks there kind words to hear .

Oh yea, I think many of us can relate to sensitivity, all good.  So nice to see you're feeling a little better.

[powerback]

On ‎6‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 10:45 AM, Carmie said:

Hi Powerback,

 

Just watched your video. I don’t eat grains at all but I wonder if you can do this test with potatoes🥔🍠😂

 

Enjoy your quiet walks and your holiday. It’s soothing being in nature and a change of scenery does us good too. Planning things is fun too. 

 

Hope you’re faring okay💚💚

Hi Carmie thanks for your kind words ,I love my walks .

DJ put that video up but I get your drift ,very interesting .

Take care I hope your fairing ok .

[Carmie]

2 hours ago, powerback said:

Hi Carmie thanks for your kind words ,I love my walks .

DJ put that video up but I get your drift ,very interesting .

Take care I hope your fairing ok .

 

So glad you love your walks powerback, 

 

There’s something amazing about being out in nature. 

 

Before I got CFS I used to walk for miles. I’d collapse now if I did that. I still go for small walks though. I try to look at the little things around me when I go for walks and I have my trusty camera. We miss so much when we just rush through life. I see a lot of things through the eyes of a camera. One day I saw two grasshoppers on the road and had to stop and snap away. Watch out insects and animal life!😀

 

Its good to have hobbies and do things even in withdrawals for distraction. When anhedonia is bad I don’t find joy in anything but I still try and force myself to do things. 

 

Did you end up booking a holiday? It’s refreshing to have a bit of a change of scenery and it can sometimes give you a different perspective on certain things in your life.

 

 Keep enjoying those walks of yours. Glad to see you’re not eating sugar, it really is an addiction with a lot of people today. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

 

[powerback]

On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 9:46 PM, Carmie said:

 

So glad you love your walks powerback, 

 

There’s something amazing about being out in nature. 

 

Before I got CFS I used to walk for miles. I’d collapse now if I did that. I still go for small walks though. I try to look at the little things around me when I go for walks and I have my trusty camera. We miss so much when we just rush through life. I see a lot of things through the eyes of a camera. One day I saw two grasshoppers on the road and had to stop and snap away. Watch out insects and animal life!😀

 

Its good to have hobbies and do things even in withdrawals for distraction. When anhedonia is bad I don’t find joy in anything but I still try and force myself to do things. 

 

Did you end up booking a holiday? It’s refreshing to have a bit of a change of scenery and it can sometimes give you a different perspective on certain things in your life.

 

 Keep enjoying those walks of yours. Glad to see you’re not eating sugar, it really is an addiction with a lot of people today. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

 

Hi carmie ,my ignorance had me believe CFS was a condition that you are born with ,i didn't know it could come on any time ,I was tested when I was a child but it was serious asthma that was diagnosed  [blighted my childhood ].

Ye I agree about hobbies ,I love the autumn mornings with the hazy drizzle that shows up all the  spiderwebs in the bushes .

I'm put off  booking a holiday because I'm constantly exhausted ,my brain is simply not working ,I have loads of jobs around the house to do and its a challenge to get organised ,new floors and painting doesn't wait for withdrawl to end ,its so sad because normally this work was extra let alone just the thing to do . my OCD is so bad i measured a room for flooring about 3 times and cant trust my decision ,its a nightmare ,but im using my mindfulness to be aware of this and trying to relax and not get totally overwhelmed .

Thanks C you keep at your photography also . 

[powerback]

I got  a text off the chemist that they don't have my exact brand of meds in ,I wonder am I being over the top paranoid about my reaction to a  different one ,I can have another generic or name brand Effexor ,I understand the chemical make up is the  same but I do wonder .these are the problems with long protracted withdrawl/intolerance  ,the longer the more constant stress .

Any inputs welcomed .

On a side note I have noticed the last few weeks my brain seems to be  craving and seeking euphoria and interestingly tricking itself into finding pleasure ,this seems to be a new thing ,I need to be very careful with this ,not that I want to drink but I need to be on guard.the last month ive made a good effort at keeping my carbs and sugar out so no doubt this was hitting the pleasure centre of the brain .it seems different than a craving ,almost a demand from the brain.

Take care .

[powerback]

39 minutes ago, powerback said:

Hi carmie ,my ignorance had me believe CFS was a condition that you are born with ,i didn't know it could come on any time ,I was tested when I was a child but it was serious asthma that was diagnosed  [blighted my childhood ].

Ye I agree about hobbies ,I love the autumn mornings with the hazy drizzle that shows up all the  spiderwebs in the bushes .

I'm put off  booking a holiday because I'm constantly exhausted ,my brain is simply not working ,I have loads of jobs around the house to do and its a challenge to get organised ,new floors and painting doesn't wait for withdrawl to end ,its so sad because normally this work was extra let alone just the thing to do . my OCD is so bad i measured a room for flooring about 3 times and cant trust my decision ,its a nightmare ,but im using my mindfulness to be aware of this and trying to relax and not get totally overwhelmed .

Thanks C you keep at your photography also . 

Double ignorance ,I took CFS as cystic fibrosis, chronic fatigue syndrome I see it is .

My apologies C

[dj2010]

1 hour ago, powerback said:

I got  a text off the chemist that they don't have my exact brand of meds in ,I wonder am I being over the top paranoid about my reaction to a  different one ,I can have another generic or name brand Effexor ,I understand the chemical make up is the  same but I do wonder .these are the problems with long protracted withdrawl/intolerance  ,the longer the more constant stress .

Any inputs welcomed .

On a side note I have noticed the last few weeks my brain seems to be  craving and seeking euphoria and interestingly tricking itself into finding pleasure ,this seems to be a new thing ,I need to be very careful with this ,not that I want to drink but I need to be on guard.the last month ive made a good effort at keeping my carbs and sugar out so no doubt this was hitting the pleasure centre of the brain .it seems different than a craving ,almost a demand from the brain.

Take care .

you might want to try a few different chemists to see if can get the same brand, if thats not possible then probably best making sure whichever brand you get has the small beads inside as if get the ones with little tablets inside like my old brand (vensir) then it will be difficult getting your dose right as will need to use a pill cutter, actually it might work out better for you if find one with loads more beads then the brand you are using now as that will make tapering easier as the bead will be less of a dose than the beads you are using now, if that makes sense,

 

hope it works out ok

 

take care

[dj2010]

21 minutes ago, dj2010 said:

you might want to try a few different chemists to see if can get the same brand, if thats not possible then probably best making sure whichever brand you get has the small beads inside as if get the ones with little tablets inside like my old brand (vensir) then it will be difficult getting your dose right as will need to use a pill cutter, actually it might work out better for you if find one with loads more beads then the brand you are using now as that will make tapering easier as the bead will be less of a dose than the beads you are using now, if that makes sense,

 

hope it works out ok

 

take care

in this link it says effexor 37.5mg has 124 beads:

 

http://abeffexor.blogspot.com/2007/04/how-many-beads-are-in-capsule.html

[powerback]

5 hours ago, dj2010 said:

you might want to try a few different chemists to see if can get the same brand, if thats not possible then probably best making sure whichever brand you get has the small beads inside as if get the ones with little tablets inside like my old brand (vensir) then it will be difficult getting your dose right as will need to use a pill cutter, actually it might work out better for you if find one with loads more beads then the brand you are using now as that will make tapering easier as the bead will be less of a dose than the beads you are using now, if that makes sense,

 

hope it works out ok

 

take care

sound DJ thanks for your input ,the chemist said they rang the manufacturer in Ireland and they cant say when they'll have it .ile try other chemists also .

Im researching apoptogenic herbs lately  ,I'm having an awful day of extreme fatigue and nothing is getting better I'm flummoxed to why I'm only getting worse .I think all this holding has been a mistake for me ,absolute nightmare .

Take care DJ ,have a good weekend.go hill walking for me .  

[Altostrata]

7 hours ago, powerback said:

,I need to be very careful with this ,not that I want to drink but I need to be on guard.the last month ive made a good effort at keeping my carbs and sugar out so no doubt this was hitting the pleasure centre of the brain .it seems different than a craving ,almost a demand from the brain.

 

Most likely, this is old habits reasserting themselves. You would be wise not to derail your nervous system with alcohol.

 

If you've been counting beads, dj is correct, you will want a type of Effexor XR with little beads inside. The brand-name Effexor XR contains little beads. If that's all that's available with little beads, that's the one you want.

[Carmie]

Hi Poweback, 

 

Just checking in to see how you’re doing. Must be hard with the OCD. I like to have things neat and tidy, but it doesn’t worry me if some of my housework isn’t done. I’m not a perfectionist. I was staying with a friend one weekend and I think she has OCD. She could hardly ever sit still, she was constantly cleaning and couldn’t even stand one cup in the sink. That must be hard to feel like you can never rest.

 

She kept saying to me “ I wish I could relax like you can.” When I’m in a wave I’m certainly not relaxed, but I don’t feel the need to have everything just so. I can lie down, crochet and watch a Netflix. I get up every now and again and do my housework.

 

I loved your description of autumn mornings. I think it’s important to really notice the nature around us, especially in withdrawals. We have to continue to see our blessings and focus on the windows that always eventually come.

 

I hope you will be able to go on a holiday soon, and enjoy some more nature wherever you go.

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

[dj2010]

14 hours ago, powerback said:

sound DJ thanks for your input ,the chemist said they rang the manufacturer in Ireland and they cant say when they'll have it .ile try other chemists also .

Im researching apoptogenic herbs lately  ,I'm having an awful day of extreme fatigue and nothing is getting better I'm flummoxed to why I'm only getting worse .I think all this holding has been a mistake for me ,absolute nightmare .

Take care DJ ,have a good weekend.go hill walking for me .  

 

ive been using apoptogenic herbs myself for the last few weeks, been using this ashwagandha extract KSM-66 that I believe has had trials done on it and it lowers cortisol in most people by 20%, you may want to check on these claims though:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0013OQEO8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

also been drinking this tea daily:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00901D6LU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

and been drinking reishi mushroom tea every day also,

 

havent noticed any massive difference except less 2am awakenings, they seem to be shifting to 4am now

 

hope you are well today

[powerback]

15 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Most likely, this is old habits reasserting themselves. You would be wise not to derail your nervous system with alcohol.

 

If you've been counting beads, dj is correct, you will want a type of Effexor XR with little beads inside. The brand-name Effexor XR contains little beads. If that's all that's available with little beads, that's the one you want.

Sound Alto thanks a lot for your input ,you've been very busy on SA so I hope your getting yourself some R and R .

my recovery is way to important to go back to alcohol but its very true to be very watchful .

Thanks again and take care . 

[powerback]

1 hour ago, dj2010 said:

 

ive been using apoptogenic herbs myself for the last few weeks, been using this ashwagandha extract KSM-66 that I believe has had trials done on it and it lowers cortisol in most people by 20%, you may want to check on these claims though:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0013OQEO8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

also been drinking this tea daily:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00901D6LU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

and been drinking reishi mushroom tea every day also,

 

havent noticed any massive difference except less 2am awakenings, they seem to be shifting to 4am now

 

hope you are well today

 

21 hours ago, dj2010 said:

in this link it says effexor 37.5mg has 124 beads:

 

http://abeffexor.blogspot.com/2007/04/how-many-beads-are-in-capsule.html

Sound thanks DJ

[powerback]

1 hour ago, dj2010 said:

 

ive been using apoptogenic herbs myself for the last few weeks, been using this ashwagandha extract KSM-66 that I believe has had trials done on it and it lowers cortisol in most people by 20%, you may want to check on these claims though:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0013OQEO8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

also been drinking this tea daily:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00901D6LU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

and been drinking reishi mushroom tea every day also,

 

havent noticed any massive difference except less 2am awakenings, they seem to be shifting to 4am now

 

hope you are well today

OH great your using them .I have a list to work through but ile keep it to a few so ile know witch one has any benefits or not .

4am instead of 2 am is a bonus .

Cheers DJ have a nice weekend .

[powerback]

5 hours ago, Carmie said:

Hi Poweback, 

 

Just checking in to see how you’re doing. Must be hard with the OCD. I like to have things neat and tidy, but it doesn’t worry me if some of my housework isn’t done. I’m not a perfectionist. I was staying with a friend one weekend and I think she has OCD. She could hardly ever sit still, she was constantly cleaning and couldn’t even stand one cup in the sink. That must be hard to feel like you can never rest.

 

She kept saying to me “ I wish I could relax like you can.” When I’m in a wave I’m certainly not relaxed, but I don’t feel the need to have everything just so. I can lie down, crochet and watch a Netflix. I get up every now and again and do my housework.

 

I loved your description of autumn mornings. I think it’s important to really notice the nature around us, especially in withdrawals. We have to continue to see our blessings and focus on the windows that always eventually come.

 

I hope you will be able to go on a holiday soon, and enjoy some more nature wherever you go.

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

Ye its definitely withdrawl causing the indecision no big deal ,I don't have  OCD in the normal thinking ,its all in the decision making .being aware of not being a perfectionist is good  sign of awareness .

Yep your correct we must focus on the windows .

Its been raining and the sun is out so there will be nice smells of nature coming from my woodland walk today .

Your very kind for checking in.

Be well and safe ,take care.

hugs right back at you .

[powerback]

found this DJ ,hope its helpful .

[dj2010]

54 minutes ago, powerback said:

found this DJ ,hope its helpful .

 

Hi PB, just back from a 2 hour walk in the wind and rain, basically had whole prom to myself lol, first proper walk in days,

 

what a excellent video that was, thanks for sharing, lots of great info there, it is probably best to avoid any of the more stimulating aptogens as I imagine these ones will have more of as chance of causing some sort of negative reaction for us lot in withdrawal, especially as venlafaxine is also a stimulating drug,

 

I have heard great things about rhodial rosea recently and how it is a great natural anti-depressent, I see it is also on the more stimulating side though so not sure if it would be ok for us, 

 

like any supplement best to start with a tiny dose and work way up to see if have any negative reaction,

 

I am going to try taking my ashwagandha extract supplement at night from now like he suggests, I have been taking it and most other supplements in the morning, except for reishi which been using early evening,

 

let us know which ones you try and if any good but make sure start very slow with any,

 

take care

[powerback]

DJ be careful and keep the dose low at first with ashwaganda ,I know it claims to be relaxing for sleep but with us "lot" we need to watch for paradoxical efffect 😡.

LOL I can imagine totally being on that prom ,when the body is cooperating its great .im just back myself but im weak so just did a little boulder lifting ,strength is my thing now to focus on ,this winter scared the life out of me .

I got milk thistle yesterday ,I started with 3 tiny drops in a little water .

  Here's another one .

Take care.