powerback: tapering no 2

[Shep]

15 minutes ago, powerback said:

Ive taking them twice in 7 days lately.

Its is only 250 micro gram dose.

I had vivid dreams and woke up groggy after lastnights dose ,so im not sure if that's the cause.

Thanks shep.

 

You should be okay doing that, PB. Yes, the vivid dreams and grogginess could be from the benzo. Please note that even a 250 micro gram dose (.25 mg) is still a sizable dose in the world of benzos. Xanax is 20 times more potent than Vallium, so it could very well cause next day grogginess. 

 

If you feel it's making you worse, you may want to switch to chamomile tea or lemon balm tea. They both have a mild GABA affect but are milder than a benzo and it's more of a "food-like" item than a drug. Plus I like to have tea as a kind of "ritual" and play a guided meditation or soft relaxing music while enjoying it. So the ritual makes it calming. 

 

Perhaps not having these kinds of teas every day (you don't want a dependency to that, either), but when you feel especially stressed. 

 

Rooibos is another kind of tea that's relaxing. It doesn't affect GABA and is very safe during withdrawal.

 

These might be alternatives to the benzo but still give you a relaxing break. 

 

 

[powerback]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

 

You should be okay doing that, PB. Yes, the vivid dreams and grogginess could be from the benzo. Please note that even a 250 micro gram dose (.25 mg) is still a sizable dose in the world of benzos. Xanax is 20 times more potent than Vallium, so it could very well cause next day grogginess. 

 

If you feel it's making you worse, you may want to switch to chamomile tea or lemon balm tea. They both have a mild GABA affect but are milder than a benzo and it's more of a "food-like" item than a drug. Plus I like to have tea as a kind of "ritual" and play a guided meditation or soft relaxing music while enjoying it. So the ritual makes it calming. 

 

Perhaps not having these kinds of teas every day (you don't want a dependency to that, either), but when you feel especially stressed. 

 

Rooibos is another kind of tea that's relaxing. It doesn't affect GABA and is very safe during withdrawal.

 

These might be alternatives to the benzo but still give you a relaxing break. 

 

 

Sound thanks shep for your help.and insight.

Take care.

[powerback]

HI alto ,I have apointment with DR tomorrow.ide rather not with the state im in .ive cancelled 3 times already.

Get immediate release effexor?

Get diazepam ?

I will be asking for these on the back your advice?.

Thanks as always.

[Shep]

59 minutes ago, powerback said:

Get diazepam ?

 

I'll leave the Effexor questions in Alto's hands, but I wanted to answer your question about diazepam.

 

You are currently using 250 micro grams (or .25 mg) of Xanax, which is comparable to 5 mg of diazepam. 

 

That may help guide you in your conversation with your doctor, should you both decide that a short course of diazepam will help get you through this crisis state back to a decent baseline. 

 

I wouldn't take more than 5 mg diazepam, especially starting out.

 

The other option is to take Xanax but space it out throughout the day so you're not dealing with interdose withdrawal. 

 

How is your sleep? Please keep in mind that diazepam may be more sedating than Xanax, so if you are struggling with insomnia, you may find diazepam helpful. But again, I wouldn't take it more than a couple weeks. Diazepam's long half life is up to 8 days, so it may be easier to become dependent on than a shorter half life drug like Xanax. 

 

Just some thoughts to think through before your doctor's visit. Please post should you have more questions so we can get them answered before your appointment. 

 

 

[powerback]

25 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

I'll leave the Effexor questions in Alto's hands, but I wanted to answer your question about diazepam.

 

You are currently using 250 micro grams (or .25 mg) of Xanax, which is comparable to 5 mg of diazepam. 

 

That may help guide you in your conversation with your doctor, should you both decide that a short course of diazepam will help get you through this crisis state back to a decent baseline. 

 

I wouldn't take more than 5 mg diazepam, especially starting out.

 

The other option is to take Xanax but space it out throughout the day so you're not dealing with interdose withdrawal. 

 

How is your sleep? Please keep in mind that diazepam may be more sedating than Xanax, so if you are struggling with insomnia, you may find diazepam helpful. But again, I wouldn't take it more than a couple weeks. Diazepam's long half life is up to 8 days, so it may be easier to become dependent on than a shorter half life drug like Xanax. 

 

Just some thoughts to think through before your doctor's visit. Please post should you have more questions so we can get them answered before your appointment. 

 

 

I dont have insomnia shep ,severe anxiety has kept me awake some nights but I mostly sleep ok.

To get my nervous system relaxed do I need to take a course of benzos for continuous days.I always thought they were to be taken just as needed.

Thanks shep for your input.

[Shep]

12 minutes ago, powerback said:

I dont have insomnia shep ,severe anxiety has kept me awake some nights but I mostly sleep ok.

To get my nervous system relaxed do I need to take a course of benzos for continuous days.I always thought they were to be taken just as needed.

 

You are spot on - it really is best to take them periodically. But since you've been doing that already and are still reporting extreme symptoms,  the next step would be to give yourself a few days of relief, if the benzo is helpful for that.

 

On 4/3/2019 at 3:30 AM, powerback said:

I.took a Xanax sunday about 2100 and felt very content and relaxed in 30 mins (oh my if I could bottle that feeling).oh my I can see why people would get hooked with the relaxation thst came over me.

I took one lastnight and it didnt seem to be as affective .

Ive never taking them for more than 2  nights in a row.

 

 

It's a bit unclear if it will be helpful to take a short course of benzos for a couple of weeks or not because you posted that it can help one day but not the next. The only way to find out would be to give it a try for a few days. 

 

Since you know Xanax and how it affects you already, you may want to stick with that as opposed to diazepam, especially since you're sleeping.

 

Alto and I are only mentioning benzos because we know you already are using them periodically and because you are experiencing some crisis type states. If we are misinterpreting this and if you think you'll be okay to simply hold and give yourself time to stabilize, then that's okay, too. But please let us know. It's really hard to gauge how bad people are via text communication. The last thing we want is for you to risk a benzo dependency, especially if you think you'll be okay to hold and give yourself time to stabilize. 

 

With your ability to sleep okay, I'm thinking you may stabilize without doing anything but holding. What do you think? Are you able to work with non-drug coping skills and hold for a bit longer or do you think it's worth exploring a short course of a daily benzo? 

 

 

 

[powerback]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

 

You are spot on - it really is best to take them periodically. But since you've been doing that already and are still reporting extreme symptoms,  the next step would be to give yourself a few days of relief, if the benzo is helpful for that.

 

 

 

It's a bit unclear if it will be helpful to take a short course of benzos for a couple of weeks or not because you posted that it can help one day but not the next. The only way to find out would be to give it a try for a few days. 

 

Since you know Xanax and how it affects you already, you may want to stick with that as opposed to diazepam, especially since you're sleeping.

 

Alto and I are only mentioning benzos because we know you already are using them periodically and because you are experiencing some crisis type states. If we are misinterpreting this and if you think you'll be okay to simply hold and give yourself time to stabilize, then that's okay, too. But please let us know. It's really hard to gauge how bad people are via text communication. The last thing we want is for you to risk a benzo dependency, especially if you think you'll be okay to hold and give yourself time to stabilize. 

 

With your ability to sleep okay, I'm thinking you may stabilize without doing anything but holding. What do you think? Are you able to work with non-drug coping skills and hold for a bit longer or do you think it's worth exploring a short course of a daily benzo? 

 

 

 

Im pretty non functional and at the point if not caring anymore to be honest.

Ile get what I think I need from DR and work from there.

Because im an addict I need to be very careful with benzos,but my brain is reaching for relief ,the waves are too strong for non coping techniques but I respect them of course.

It feels physiological to me ,like a chronic fatigue or lyme issue.

Thanks shep and take care.

[Altostrata]

pb, you've done very well given your prior history of substance dependency.

 

Is half a Xanax tablet sufficient? The lowest effective dose would be best. Same with diazepam.

[powerback]

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

pb, you've done very well given your prior history of substance dependency.

 

Is half a Xanax tablet sufficient? The lowest effective dose would be best. Same with diazepam.

Sound thanks alto .

I got the immediate release casules today (tiny beads) mite start with 6 ?.

I watched a documentary about ADHD and im starting to wonder about my history.the last thing I need is more meds but I cant ignore my past either.

Impulse control and atention span always an issue.(non existent in a wave)

Because DR thinks 4mg prozac  is  a very low dose ,im tempted to up the prozac and see if it takes away my chronic brain tiredness.

Take care.

[Altostrata]

3 hours ago, powerback said:

I got the immediate release casules today (tiny beads) mite start with 6 ?.

 

That would be Effexor? The capsules are usually Effexor XR, is that what you have?

 

What size were your venlafaxine tablets?

 

4mg Prozac was a low dose, but when you were up to 4.5mg, it seemed your symptoms were worse.

 

If we're fiddling with the Effexor, I would not change the Prozac for now -- only one drug change at a time, please!

 

You cannot diagnose ADHD while someone is having an adverse drug reaction, that would be absurd. ADHD is very much overdiagnosed. The treatment is amphetamines or amphetamine analogs -- who couldn't use a little speed in their lives?

[powerback]

54 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

That would be Effexor? The capsules are usually Effexor XR, is that what you have?

 

What size were your venlafaxine tablets?

 

4mg Prozac was a low dose, but when you were up to 4.5mg, it seemed your symptoms were worse.

 

If we're fiddling with the Effexor, I would not change the Prozac for now -- only one drug change at a time, please!

 

You cannot diagnose ADHD while someone is having an adverse drug reaction, that would be absurd. ADHD is very much overdiagnosed. The treatment is amphetamines or amphetamine analogs -- who couldn't use a little speed in their lives?

I asked for immediate release and it

says on the box "prolonged release capsules" ,effexor XL 37.5mg ,WTF like ha.

Yep I agree about getting  a diagnosis for ADHD while in this state .being true to myself ,I cant ignore what introspection has dug up in my past .anyway thats for a later date. 

Cheers Alto.

 

[Altostrata]

Just as well, you have Effexor XR. Taking a few beads will be a lot easier to manage.

 

What size were your other Effexor tablets?

 

Don't worry about ADHD.

[powerback]

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Just as well, you have Effexor XR. Taking a few beads will be a lot easier to manage.

 

What size were your other Effexor tablets?

 

Don't worry about ADHD.

3 small tablets inside a capsule =12.5mg each ,so a third of one of them I was taking lately =4mg .

Thanks Alto,take care .

 

[Andie]

On 3/31/2019 at 3:28 AM, powerback said:

I binged watched this over 2 evenings [amazing distraction for me ,every second of rumination switched off for me  ].highly recommend it .Don't google anything about it or its ruined .

Rejoice and enjoy. 

I binge watched this too. I loved it. 

 

Have you watched the 12 Monkeys series on Netflix? It switched off my rumination quick smart. I needed to focus to just to keep up with the story 😂. I really enjoyed it. 

[powerback]

50 minutes ago, Andie said:

I binge watched this too. I loved it. 

 

Have you watched the 12 Monkeys series on Netflix? It switched off my rumination quick smart. I needed to focus to just to keep up with the story 😂. I really enjoyed it. 

Hi andie cool you liked it also .I must watch 12 monkeys thanks.

I hope your well ,take care.

[Altostrata]

You'll have to figure out how many beads amount to 4mg. This may involve counting the beads on a dark cloth so they don't bounce around.

[powerback]

9 hours ago, Altostrata said:

You'll have to figure out how many beads amount to 4mg. This may involve counting the beads on a dark cloth so they don't bounce around.

Sound cheers Alto.

[Altostrata]

pb, please report in.

 

Are you still experiencing an increase in fatigue after you take Prozac?

 

Are you finding 1/2 tablet Xanax sufficient?

 

Have your symptoms increased, decreased, or stayed the same over the last month?

[powerback]

5 hours ago, Altostrata said:

pb, please report in.

 

Are you still experiencing an increase in fatigue after you take Prozac?

 

Are you finding 1/2 tablet Xanax sufficient?

 

Have your symptoms increased, rdecreased, or stayed the same over the last month?

Hi Alto thanks for checking in.

I took half a xanax(.125) yesterday at 1300 ,couldn't be sure how I felt.around 1830 my mood lifted somewhat ,strong depression all day .over all im not good .

Depression has definitely gotten worse.

Cheers.

[thecowisback]

how are you doing this week???

[powerback]

1 hour ago, thecowisback said:

how are you doing this week???

Hi TCIB thanks for asking your very kind to do so.

It pains me to say not well at all ,I actually struggle to remember feeling any worse than I do lately .my mind and thoughts do nothing but taunt me.I wait and wait and nothing positive happens.

Its more than 3 weeks since my "wally brained antics" and this has in no doubt contributed to my state of affairs.

Take Care and keep at it.

[thecowisback]

😥😥😥 it's the thoughts that are the worst for me too. have you got anything at all to distract you??

[powerback]

1 hour ago, thecowisback said:

😥😥😥 it's the thoughts that are the worst for me too. have you got anything at all to distract you??

nothing can distract me when its this bad,im just being smashed against the cliff by the waves and waiting for it to stop .everyone's personal  situation is different TCIB so be careful reading horror shows like mine and letting it affect you ,you keep working away at your own healing .Ide rather not write how bad my situation is at the moment

.I cant risk triggering  others, its never been worse to be honest ,I have a constant fear loved ones will take it on themselves to admit me some were .to be honest I wouldn't have the will or energy to stop them [I secretly hope someone does admit me ],  im crushed beyond belief .I have no energy or will left ,my future depends on everyone else's patience  around me and that's scary.

Take care TCIB ,thanks for your visit today🙏 .  

[thecowisback]

so sad to hear you're going through such a rough time. i hope it passes soon. i know what you mean about nothing being able to distract you when it's really bad- it's as if the thoughts and visions just totally fill your head and you can't see, hear or feel anything else but the fear. 

[Altostrata]

So, overall, your symptoms have shifted from [fill in blank] to depression?

 

Please describe your earlier state as well as you can.

 

What did your doctor say about diazepam?

[powerback]

6 hours ago, Altostrata said:

So, overall, your symptoms have shifted from [fill in blank] to depression?

 

Please describe your earlier state as well as you can.

 

What did your doctor say about diazepam?

Symptoms=agoraphobia at the level of wanting to run into the closet if people come to the house),depression,feet like ice blocks (hot water bottle solves that) fatigue ,strong intrusive thoughts that instantly set my sympathetic nervous systhem off.panic is strong.pain and uncomfortable in my hips and back after walking for a couple hundred yards.

The last few days I have a strong feeling of greif in my Heart .

Oh ye and extreme anxiety of all nature.

I forgot to mention diazepam to DR .

Last couple of nights im taking 0.6mg of Xanax.(my heart racing thismorning)

Ive still some crumbs left so I haven't switched to the beads yet.I will do any day though.

My depression is strong enough that I think it keeps me in a state of destress and bad mood constantly .

My wally brained antics nearly a month ago could easily still be a major factor in all this +ive left the house 3 times in 20 days,another record for me.

The bonus is the weather is to turn for the better this easter weeknd .

 

My earlier state=alot of the above but not as intense.

Thanks alto ,take care.

 

[Shep]

4 hours ago, powerback said:

The bonus is the weather is to turn for the better this easter weeknd .

 

PB, have you have a history of going into depressions during the winter? 

 

Have you tried light therapy?

 

Light boxes / light therapy for depression and sleep disorders

 

You also may be suffering from low vitamin D. Some members find that supplement to be activating, so you may do better simply getting out into the sunlight as the weather turns better.

 

If this is seasonal, then you may feel better naturally in the next couple of weeks. You've posted many times about how you like to get out into nature, so you may be someone who is going to struggle during winter and come more alive during spring and summer when you can get out into the sunlight and into nature. 

 

Please post your thoughts on this.

 

 

[powerback]

6 hours ago, Shep said:

 

PB, have you have a history of going into depressions during the winter? 

 

Have you tried light therapy?

 

Light boxes / light therapy for depression and sleep disorders

 

You also may be suffering from low vitamin D. Some members find that supplement to be activating, so you may do better simply getting out into the sunlight as the weather turns better.

 

If this is seasonal, then you may feel better naturally in the next couple of weeks. You've posted many times about how you like to get out into nature, so you may be someone who is going to struggle during winter and come more alive during spring and summer when you can get out into the sunlight and into nature. 

 

Please post your thoughts on this.

 

 

Hi Shep hows things .the severity of lately means nothing but waiting it out will work ,im a phone call away from admitting myself to hospital to be honest its that bad .in my personal case [ive read a lot of threads] I am in a very severe withdrawl .mentally  ,emotionally ,physiologically I am on the severe scale .I keep waiting but the world we live in encroaches eventually and then we have to partake in it ,albeit while very sick ,no one wants to listen to someone like me when there biggest problem is burnt toast for breakfast that day but you have to come up with an idea to explain about why  you couldn't go to the wedding because the noise will drive you nuts or bursting into an anxiety attack in front of someone ,its just exhausting.

 

I fobbed a difficult family member off today by telling them I have lymes disease/chronic fatigue  to get them away from me .they argued that, so you could imagine if i tried to explain withdrawl ,no way pedro . 

Since the summer ive had an accumulative stress response going on with my whole body .I used to love hiking in the rain and cold in winter [I loved it ]so on the surface I never noticed SADs but on the micro genetic level I believe the markers are there for me

.is my severe depression withdrawl  or meds  side affects  who knows but being house bound/acrophobic  will make you depressed anyway .in the last 3 years of this mess I noticed each winter my body became less able to deal with the cold [thyroid] ,I sit here now with a hot water bottle on my feet because there ice blocks .

I couldn't tolerate VD supplement ,I might try again .going off last years bloods at this time of year ,my guess is its not too low because I was normal to low levels ,im  out in the sun everyday coming up to fall.

 

I watched a video the other day about chemical sensitivities on the nervous system ,the lady said its like your whole body becomes unable to tolerate the world ,that's how I feel mentally ,emotionaly ,physiologically .I didn't put the video up because it could trigger some people.

 

Thanks shep for your help but please be ok with the fact ive informed myself with enough information that im ok what happens going forward in this journey for me ,finally I might have the ultimate acceptance or just worn out lol.

Peace and take care . 

 

[Altostrata]

pb, are you having surges of symptoms (if so, what are they?), or have those surges stopped? What times of day are the symptoms the worse?

 

It's best to stick to the 0.125mg Xanax, more is not going to be better, you may get side effects from taking more. You might take it twice a day, 12 hours apart. When you take it depends on when your symptoms are worse. If they're worse at 6 a.m., you may want to take alprazolam at midnight so it's in you at 6 a.m. (until about noon, actually).

 

You'd do this for a short time, to settle your system a bit more.

 

What do you think?

[powerback]

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

pb, are you having surges of symptoms (if so, what are they?), or have those surges stopped? What times of day are the symptoms the worse?

 

It's best to stick to the 0.125mg Xanax, more is not going to be better, you may get side effects from taking more. You might take it twice a day, 12 hours apart. When you take it depends on when your symptoms are worse. If they're worse at 6 a.m., you may want to take alprazolam at midnight so it's in you at 6 a.m. (until about noon, actually).

 

You'd do this for a short time, to settle your system a bit more.

 

What do you think?

Extreme intrusive thoughts are at me the whole day .this was my nemisis always but never to this level ,it actually over power's my functional ability and cognition .

Its nearly impossible to get xnanx because of the abuse and selling on the street of it .I have a small amount there.

 

Terry lynch is a good distance from were I live so im not up to the travel or the price of what he would charge,I have emailed him a while ago but its aranged to meet when im up to it .

Ide say my DR will give me any prescription I need (hopefully).

Thanks Alto.

 

[Altostrata]

What is your current drug schedule?

[powerback]

12 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What is your current drug schedule?

9am 1.1ml prozac and 2 crumbs of effexor at 11 am.this hasnt changed for weeks.im changing to the beads soon .

Cheers.

[Carmie]

Hi Powerback, 

 

Just wanted to pop around and send you a hug🤗

[powerback]

6 hours ago, Carmie said:

Hi Powerback, 

 

Just wanted to pop around and send you a hug🤗

Ah thanks carmie ,same to you .happy easter.

[powerback]

23/04/2019

21.45= 2mg diazepam .

 

24/04/2019

0900.1.1ml/4.5mg Prozac.

11.00.8 beads of Effexor [first day ].

my symptoms are all extreme.anxiety is chronic the whole day .my moods are horrific .

felt like an elephant on my chest yesterday the whole day .my breathing is shallow/air hunger seems to be worse the last few months .cooking for myself  is now a chore.

Since i was at DRs yesterday i said check my blood pressure  .it was perfect .i told him about my symptoms so its no wonder they think its in our head .

 

[Shep]

5 hours ago, powerback said:

23/04/2019

21.45= 2mg diazepam .

 

How was your sleep on the diazepam?

 

5 hours ago, powerback said:

felt like an elephant on my chest yesterday the whole day .my breathing is shallow/air hunger seems to be worse the last few months .cooking for myself  is now a chore.

 

Did the air hunger symptom get better, get worse, or no change at all when you took the diazepam?