powerback: tapering no 2

[pinkfairy]

Pb I understand we have been in this for so long now it gets old and tiring “I get it” 

Just don’t place any labels on you’re self or anybody we aren’t jam jars we’re all good human beings with good hearts PB.

 

Its okay to be not okay.

But what’s not okay is giving up on you & letting the same people that harmed you do it again.

food for thought.

 

But what ever way you go I wish nothing but the best for you.

up most respect for you stay safe 

pink ❤️

[powerback]

40 minutes ago, pinkfairy said:

Pb I understand we have been in this for so long now it gets old and tiring “I get it” 

Just don’t place any labels on you’re self or anybody we aren’t jam jars we’re all good human beings with good hearts PB.

 

Its okay to be not okay.

But what’s not okay is giving up on you & letting the same people that harmed you do it again.

food for thought.

 

But what ever way you go I wish nothing but the best for you.

up most respect for you stay safe 

pink ❤️

Cheers pink .

take care .

[powerback]

 update:my situation continues to be of a dire nature.depression is bad and fatigue .

Got bloods back ,its 18 months since my last bloods.

Thyroid: 4.21,range is 0.27-4.20. he claims the number needs to be 8 to worry    [he claims this number doesn't matter because T4 is 15.8   .

Testosterone: 9.1 ,range 8.6-29.0.

Dr claims this doesn't mean anything together .

2 years ago I asked him to refer me to an endocrinologist and I was fobbed off .I will now have to beg him ,he has already admitted that he should of picked up on the ADHD issue so am I dealing with a dr that doesn't want to loose face all the while I'm suicidal with my health in the toilet [sorry for triggers but I'm at my wits end.

Any thoughts are welcome . 

Thanks.

[pinkfairy]

Hi pb am so sorry your at your wits end and feeling sucidal.

i just want you to know I care about you.You have helped so many people on this journey pb.

 

I don’t know anything about the above with doctors sorry 

but I understand the hopeless feeling so well.

you have come to far to give in now pb 

just know those feelings pass ♥️

[powerback]

3 hours ago, pinkfairy said:

Hi pb am so sorry your at your wits end and feeling sucidal.

Hi pink ,it seems to be the nature of my beast at the moment.

3 hours ago, pinkfairy said:

I don’t know anything about the above with doctors sorry 

No sweat pink ,I'm mostly thinking out load .

DRs are sick management ,there not healthcare .this needs to be thought to the younger generation and us all .

They hold a lot of the cards ,so the game has to be played .especially once were medicated and in the systhem,its a tricky balance to play.

3 hours ago, pinkfairy said:

i just want you to know I care about you.

Your too kind ,thanks ,right back at you. 

3 hours ago, pinkfairy said:

just know those feelings pass ♥️

A couple a weeks ago for a bout 10  mins,i got a glimpse and feeling of my old "normal good self " it was fleeting and torturous to feel it dissipate into thin air .

Take care Pink .

Be safe . 

 

[pinkfairy]

Thank the lord I am out of the system I am after reclaiming everything they took from me.

my mind,soul & body & my boy.

I get my drugs and taper with out them knowing.I can’t even go near them no more.They can stick there labels and what ever else up there ass.lol 

 

I get them quite a lot pb the thoughts but I just know there thoughts what I attach to 

I try to be the witness so hard to do when it gets unbearable.

i go from minute to minute when intense.So I hear you and see you pb you aren’t alone.

 

oh wow 😮 that is unreal that you did that’s whats underneath this storm ⛈ pb YOU!!

 

yes it’s heartbreaking when it goes but all the more reason to keep going to get to that.It will feel like summer every single day 365 days always after this.

After a storm always comes a rainbow 🌈 

keep safe 💕

[powerback]

13 minutes ago, pinkfairy said:

After a storm always comes a rainbow 🌈 

After a storm ,theres destruction lol,dont mind me pink ,its my dark humour lol .I agree and get your drift .

15 minutes ago, pinkfairy said:

oh wow 😮 that is unreal that you did that’s whats underneath this storm ⛈ pb YOU!!

Its funny ,im enjoying listening to music the last hour,it must be 6 months or more since I have .

20 minutes ago, pinkfairy said:

I try to be the witness so hard to do when it gets unbearable.

Kudos pink ,this is good self care .

[pinkfairy]

Probably a whole lot of destruction after it that I do know.But one thing is for sure when we walk out of the rubble the sky will be bright and we will of survived.

Then brick by brick we can rebuild and start a whole new chapter 

but this time we get to hold the pen 🖊 and edit has often has we like.My son is waiting for me so rubble I intend to crawl through it all.

 

 

That is brill been able to listen to music again.

 

Learning has I go along I have to survive no other option 

xx

[powerback]

7 minutes ago, pinkfairy said:

Probably a whole lot of destruction after it that I do know.But one thing is for sure when we walk out of the rubble the sky will be bright and we will of survived.

Then brick by brick we can rebuild and start a whole new chapter 

but this time we get to hold the pen 🖊 and edit has often has we like.My son is waiting for me so rubble I intend to crawl through it all.

 

 

That is brill been able to listen to music again.

 

Learning has I go along I have to survive no other option 

xx

Keep on your path pink ,don't let anyone push you off it or any wave wash the path away .

 

 

 

[pinkfairy]

I don’t intend to pb last time that happened I ended up in a phye ward.

we are all on the same journey heading in one direction.Some people start with us but sadly I have learnt we all go our different ways in time.Growing looks different for every one..

 

 

Recovery is everybody’s goal 

keep safe ♥️

[powerback]

1 minute ago, pinkfairy said:

I don’t intend to pb last time that happened I ended up in a phye ward.

I meant  to say you have a good thought process about your journey ,its healthy and positive  for your healing ,anyone can see this in how you write .

 

[FarmGirlWorks]

Hey @powerback, thinking of you and hello. You've always encouraged me and wanted to say thanks. Keep on, keepin' on.

[powerback]

On 9/24/2019 at 6:35 AM, FarmGirlWorks said:

Hey @powerback, thinking of you and hello. You've always encouraged me and wanted to say thanks. Keep on, keepin' on.

Hi FGW hello to you too ,cheers for stopping by .hope your well .

[powerback]

Hi folks .

a couple weeks ago I got a referral letter from my  GP to see a phyciatrists for an ADHD assessment .I only hand delivered it today .

I was thrown off by the secretary's reaction to the letter.she made a big deal about the letter been 3 weeks old ,I didn't even bother telling her I'm bedridden .the place is only 15 miles away but she made a big deal about hand delivering it [was I out this way she says ],I didn't want to post such a private letter .

On the letter it said I was on 20mg Prozac [I'm not on this much ,it was suggested by an outpatient clinic a year ago ] ,she couldn't get her head around why I wasn't on this much ,her face when I talked about withdrawal .

I wonder will the consultant even deal with me ,but surely they have to give me an assessment .500 euro for a 2 hour assessment .

I had this interaction while ridiculously sensitive ,if I'm like this when they give me the assessment , who knows what "diagnosis" I'm in for .

I have at least 6 months to wait but my symptoms are still very bad .

 

I understand and respect others reading this will have there own views about ADHD but ive been painfully honest with myself  in the hopes to understand my past ,maybe to much ,but ive always wondered ,even before I got so sick[ADHD has only been apparent the last 9 months] .

 

.since I dropped the 37.5 Effexor at Christmas ,my memories have came flooding back [not in a great way ] ,so if I play devils advocate ,a phyciatrist will ask "why come off the meds" but I was never put on meds for these reasons .

Im left wondering what to do with such strong PTSD like memories and feelings since dropping the Effexor .

I cant quite believe im this sick this far along ,im struggling to cope with it to be honest .

Thanks for reading .

Take care. 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by ChessieCat
changed god to who

[pinkfairy]

So sorry pb I understand the feeling of still been so sick this far out.

my only concerns are going into a shrinks office who won’t acknowledge WD etc.There only main job is to “label” & prescribe.

Even if they do give you a ADHD label adding more drugs to a super sensitive CNS would be like pouring gasoline onto an inferno at this point.

 

I think we seek for answers has to why we were like we were/are to try and explain why we are so ill etc.

it does nothing but keeps the hamster wheel spinning.

 

Until WD is over and we’re healed only then would I consider delving deep into why we are like we are.

But I know it’s your call and I respect which route you take.

But the majority here have been harmed by doctors/shrinks not believed and been made to feel invisible.They make us feel like we are broken species.

(no one is we just went through all abnormal circumstances)

Whats normal really.

i for one wouldn’t want to be “normal” 

 

I can’t even go there with the MHT they did all this to us.

I am running in the opposite direction has fast has I can.

 

The PTSD flashbacks is a part of WD sadly has it digs everything up.

Its kind of like a big digger that tends to go all in & throws everything up.

you just have to remind your self you are safe and they can’t hurt you etc.

 

Truly sorry you are hurting 

look after you 💛

[powerback]

55 minutes ago, pinkfairy said:

So sorry pb I understand the feeling of still been so sick this far out.

my only concerns are going into a shrinks office who won’t acknowledge WD etc.There only main job is to “label” & prescribe.

Even if they do give you a ADHD label adding more drugs to a super sensitive CNS would be like pouring gasoline onto an inferno at this point.

 

I think we seek for answers has to why we were like we were/are to try and explain why we are so ill etc.

it does nothing but keeps the hamster wheel spinning.

 

Until WD is over and we’re healed only then would I consider delving deep into why we are like we are.

But I know it’s your call and I respect which route you take.

But the majority here have been harmed by doctors/shrinks not believed and been made to feel invisible.They make us feel like we are broken species.

(no one is we just went through all abnormal circumstances)

Whats normal really.

i for one wouldn’t want to be “normal” 

 

I can’t even go there with the MHT they did all this to us.

I am running in the opposite direction has fast has I can.

 

The PTSD flashbacks is a part of WD sadly has it digs everything up.

Its kind of like a big digger that tends to go all in & throws everything up.

you just have to remind your self you are safe and they can’t hurt you etc.

 

Truly sorry you are hurting 

look after you 💛

Hi pink ,ye I agree with alot you say.

I am judging my ADHD

neurology/behaviour on my life even before meds or  Withdrawl .the last year has brought a profound realization to me ,trust me I was far from my "normal peers".

Of course labels arent very nice but theres simply no denying my history,labels or not.

Everyones case is different .I seemed to have alot of negative things happen for my neurology to turn out like it did.

Even the "experts" tend to disagree on the evidence out there .

I could still cancel yet ,that secretary's attitude put me right off .

Hope your wave ends soon ,thanks for your input.

Take care.

 

[pinkfairy]

I was never like my normal peers has well pb.Totally different with so much trauma..All that changed my entire CNS and beliefs etc.

But I don’t think we will ever know what’s what till we are on the other side of this.

 

Then when healed seek help or ways of managing it.Am just throwing ideas out there to you.

That would be just the start of snotty retorts from them.

They would seek to Medicare then if you didn’t comply would come up with the BS “treatment resistant” 

 

I hope 🤞🏻 you catch a break soon my friend.Its a long weary road for sure. But one that has to be taken.

But honestly if it’s what you believe to be true then just tread very careful in there hands.

 

me too & thank you it’s a rough one for sure.

some deep healing must be taking place has it’s a wow 😮 factor.

 

No matter what just look after your self & remember the WD brain hooks on to things and runs with it.

💛

[powerback]

9 minutes ago, pinkfairy said:

I was never like my normal peers has well pb.Totally different with so much trauma..All that changed my entire CNS and beliefs etc.

But I don’t think we will ever know what’s what till we are on the other side of this.

 

Then when healed seek help or ways of managing it.Am just throwing ideas out there to you.

That would be just the start of snotty retorts from them.

They would seek to Medicare then if you didn’t comply would come up with the BS “treatment resistant” 

 

I hope 🤞🏻 you catch a break soon my friend.Its a long weary road for sure. But one that has to be taken.

But honestly if it’s what you believe to be true then just tread very careful in there hands.

 

me too & thank you it’s a rough one for sure.

some deep healing must be taking place has it’s a wow 😮 factor.

 

No matter what just look after your self & remember the WD brain hooks on to things and runs with it.

I was and I wasn't like my peers if that makes sense .

Cheers pink ,same to you .

 

 

 

[pinkfairy]

I wasn’t 😆

i was always different but that’s what makes us all unique.

 

Life would be pretty miserable if we were all the same nobody on this planet is the same.

 

Theres only one of us thank the lord though ey lol 

[ChessieCat]

If you go into the assessment with the belief that you have ADHD then in all probability you will, consciously or subconsciously, respond to any subjective tests in a way which will be biased towards an ADHD diagnosis.

[Altostrata]

On 9/16/2019 at 4:23 PM, powerback said:

 update:my situation continues to be of a dire nature.depression is bad and fatigue .

Got bloods back ,its 18 months since my last bloods.

Thyroid: 4.21,range is 0.27-4.20. he claims the number needs to be 8 to worry    [he claims this number doesn't matter because T4 is 15.8   .

Testosterone: 9.1 ,range 8.6-29.0.

Dr claims this doesn't mean anything together .

2 years ago I asked him to refer me to an endocrinologist and I was fobbed off .I will now have to beg him ,he has already admitted that he should of picked up on the ADHD issue so am I dealing with a dr that doesn't want to loose face all the while I'm suicidal with my health in the toilet [sorry for triggers but I'm at my wits end.

Any thoughts are welcome . 

Thanks.

 

Fatigue is a hallmark of low thyroid and depression is another symptom. The numbers are not the whole story, one may have hypothyroid symptoms with relatively normal tests and respond well to thyroid hormone treatment or not have any symptoms at all with out-of-range tests, which do not need treatment.

 

(As your doctor said, the testosterone test does not mean anything.)

 

It is possible you have low thyroid. If I were you, I'd look into this further, rather than pursue ADHD drug treatment, which will do nothing for low thyroid if that is the core problem. I am appalled that your doctor is more inclined to prescribe an amphetamine analog for you rather than low-dose thyroid hormone.

[powerback]

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Fatigue is a hallmark of low thyroid and depression is another symptom. The numbers are not the whole story, one may have hypothyroid symptoms with relatively normal tests and respond well to thyroid hormone treatment or not have any symptoms at all with out-of-range tests, which do not need treatment.

 

(As your doctor said, the testosterone test does not mean anything.)

 

It is possible you have low thyroid. If I were you, I'd look into this further, rather than pursue ADHD drug treatment, which will do nothing for low thyroid if that is the core problem. I am appalled that your doctor is more inclined to prescribe an amphetamine analog for you rather than low-dose thyroid hormone.

Hi ALto thanks for your Imput.

Thyroid number is coming out on the high end,saying that my mother has low thyroid problems decades.

DR won't even touch me in regards meds without seeing a consultant,Ive done my homework on these meds  and there far from a silver bullet .

With these drs it gets to a point were they push back on you when they think the tests are fine and no extra digging is necessary.he puts the freezing feet (in winter)down to stress .ile give it a go trying to investigate thyroid more with him.

Im also considering a low dose testosterone gel.

Cheers ,take care.

[powerback]

11 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

If you go into the assessment with the belief that you have ADHD then in all probability you will, consciously or subconsciously, respond to any subjective tests in a way which will be biased towards an ADHD diagnosis.

Exactly CC I see what you mean,what ever names are given to these  nuerological problems doesnt mean much too me ,its the practical problems and issues I have had most of my life that im focused on trying to understand .as I said I cant deny my history.

Im not shopping for a fictitious "disease"

There has been direct negative  consequences from my action or in action most my life.there has to be a reason in the brain and nervous system for this.

If I havnt inproved by the time the appointment comes around ,I wont be going ,I still mite cancel because of my interaction yesterday,plus its expensive

Thanks for your input .

Take Care CC.

[Miko789]

Hi Pb.

You have to believe in you . You r the only one who can achieve.

You stand by me in the most sh*tty moment of my life.1 year.
Dont listen to the docs.they have no knowledge about wd. Bunch of empathetic.
Keep healthy diet. Milk.oranges. veggies
Keep exercising
I had 0 energy i thought i was faint i said get up. I had to. I got up i thought i go faint 0 energy. I did 5min walk i dropped i fell on bed and thought i was faint but im still her.
Go to the doc and tell him that i can.

[powerback]

Sertraline 50mg.

zopiclone 7,5mg.

olanzapine 2.5mg 

diazepam 2mg taken 3 times a day =6mg a day

The above he is on 2 weeks .

olmesartan medoxomil 40mg,[ blood pressure ]he has high blood pressure ,on this a good while . 

@Shep @Altostrata

hi im wondering what yous think of the above cocktail ,my dad 68 has been given it for severe anxiety ,even phobic .

he is showing signs of akathisia ,hes close to going into hospital ,im terrified theyl drug him even more .

diazepam and olanzapine is coming up major on the drug interaction scale others are coming up moderate but I think hes sensitive to drugs like myself .

also 3 CNS drugs is the most they say to take and hes on 4 .

anyone that can help ide appreciate it .

Thanks in advance .

Peace.

[Shep]

6 minutes ago, powerback said:

Sertraline 50mg.

zopiclone 7,5mg.

olanzapine 2.5mg 

diazepam 2mg taken 3 times a day =6mg a day

The above he is on 2 weeks .

 

PB, he could stop these drugs or do a rapid taper off since he's only been on them a couple of weeks. Does he want off of them? Can he join the forum? 

 

8 minutes ago, powerback said:

my dad 68 has been given it for severe anxiety ,even phobic .

 

Do you know of any reason why he might have become so anxious? Was his blood pressure and medication being monitored?

 

If possible, please have him join us and start an introduction for himself. You're right to be so concerned. That is an absurd cocktail, especially for someone who is 68 years old. 

[powerback]

36 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

PB, he could stop these drugs or do a rapid taper off since he's only been on them a couple of weeks. Does he want off of them? Can he join the forum? 

 

 

Do you know of any reason why he might have become so anxious? Was his blood pressure and medication being monitored?

 

If possible, please have him join us and start an introduction for himself. You're right to be so concerned. That is an absurd cocktail, especially for someone who is 68 years old. 

Ah shep thanks for such a quick reply .

im getting my mam to take notes .

he has had undiagnosed anxiety hes whole life[I realised it after researching my family because of my own crash ] .the last 2 years has been a progression ,it was very bad in December ,I havnt been around because of my own health .he got too a very bad level .I believe to the level of a nervous breakdown ,hes base line was high to begin with .

hes of a working class nature ,he wouldn't know anything about drugs ,only what drs say ,this is why its the last thing I need ,knowing what these drug do.

hes far from computer literate ,I could get my mam to create a thread  ,ile post on here for now ,im well done moaning lol. 

he wont listen to anything I say ,hes quite a difficult character ,kind but difficult .

my parents believe he needs something ,I know we cant suggest prescribing on SA but my thinking is to keep the diazepam and sertraline for now .

Thanks shep .

Peace.

 

[Altostrata]

6 hours ago, powerback said:

Sertraline 50mg.

zopiclone 7,5mg.

olanzapine 2.5mg 

diazepam 2mg taken 3 times a day =6mg a day

The above he is on 2 weeks .

olmesartan medoxomil 40mg,[ blood pressure ]he has high blood pressure ,on this a good while . 

....

 

That is an absurd cocktail. They were started all at once? Your dad needs a new doctor.

 

I would put ALL your dad's drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php , print out the report, and take it to your medical group center. Tell them you want a doctor who is familiar with deprescribing.

 

Zopiclone and diazepam are supposed to be only for short-term use. Olanzapine promotes development of diabetes and movement disorders.

[powerback]

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

That is an absurd cocktail. They were started all at once? Your dad needs a new doctor.

 

I would put ALL your dad's drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php , print out the report, and take it to your medical group center. Tell them you want a doctor who is familiar with deprescribing.

 

Zopiclone and diazepam are supposed to be only for short-term use. Olanzapine promotes development of diabetes and movement disorders.

Thanks @Altostrata

yep all at once[sorry correction ,the blood pressure was there already]  ,my mam cant cope ,shes fighting me on it ,he has one foot in as an inpatient ,im trying to atleast get the drugs down to ,diazepam and sertraline ,what you think ?

ye I put them all into the checker ,olanzapine and diazepam came up as mayor interaction .

cheers.

[apace41]

8 minutes ago, powerback said:

im trying to atleast get the drugs down to ,diazepam and sertraline ,what you think ?

 

My view, PB, is that if you have to have him on something that's at least a combination we are familiar with and can hopefully get a handle on.  If you have diazepam I can't see a reason to add the zopiclone because they both work on the GABA receptors.  Adding an atypical like Olanzapine is just a really, really bad idea.  If you can get him to just sertraline and diazepam (and I note that 6mg of diazepam is not very big daily dose -- equivalent to only .5mg of xanax -- don't get me wrong -- I'm not in favor but it could be way worse) then you can try to stabilize him over a 3-6 month period and taper him off, sertraline first and diazepam next.  Hopefully, that can all be done without too much pain but, as you know, that can be a crapshoot.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[powerback]

3 minutes ago, apace41 said:

 

My view, PB, is that if you have to have him on something that's at least a combination we are familiar with and can hopefully get a handle on.  If you have diazepam I can't see a reason to add the zopiclone because they both work on the GABA receptors.  Adding an atypical like Olanzapine is just a really, really bad idea.  If you can get him to just sertraline and diazepam (and I note that 6mg of diazepam is not very big daily dose -- equivalent to only .5mg of xanax -- don't get me wrong -- I'm not in favor but it could be way worse) then you can try to stabilize him over a 3-6 month period and taper him off, sertraline first and diazepam next.  Hopefully, that can all be done without too much pain but, as you know, that can be a crapshoot.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Thanks Andy so much for your help .

Hope your well.

cheers .

[Altostrata]

I agree with Andy. Have you spoken to your father's doctor? Why can't his doctor handle this?

[powerback]

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

I agree with Andy. Have you spoken to your father's doctor? Why can't his doctor handle this?

Hi @Altostrata

I mite ring my DR in the hopes hel write a letter and attest to the fact im so sensitive to meds ,try get through to my dads prescriber .

The dr is talking about weaning him off but we know what there rate is like .

ive given all the information I can to my  mam ,,my mam is ignoring  me about giving me the DRs details.

it could be out of my hands already .

Take care and thanks everyone for the help .

[powerback]

Hi @Altostrata ,shep ,andy .

he was admitted to hospital  today .my mam doesn't want me causing conflict with the DR .

Im thinking of trying to email him and send the interactions to him and hope he listens but god knows what hes like.

Hopefully im wrong for whats ahead but as we know .

Thanks so much for your help.

Peace.

[Altostrata]

I'd speak to the head of the department. There is no reason for your father to be put on 4 powerful drugs at once. That is not good medical practice.

[apace41]

4 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

I'd speak to the head of the department. There is no reason for your father to be put on 4 powerful drugs at once. That is not good medical practice.

 

I agree that it is reprehensible, Alto, but PB may not have the status in the situation to change things.  If the patient's spouse is supportive of the treatment, a child trying to change that from a distance is going to be challenged.  And, while we can theorize this could be done as a "friendly conversation", the odds of the attending physician not taking umbrage at a "layperson" challenging the management of the case are pretty close to slim and none.

 

PB, it might be worth one final "Hail Mary" phone call, but you need to also protect your own health given where you have been.  Being embroiled in a situation where nobody (including your family) sides with you can be rather taxing to the CNS.

 

Best,

 

Andy