success ☼ Undiagnosed1: Unsure of what to do next

[mammaP]

Please don't be tempted to quit the trazodone, we realise that it is making you feel ill but withdrawal can be much worse. Your body is adjusting and healing all the time. When was the last time you changed anything? Have you taken any more clonazepam or made any reductions? 

[Terry4949]

Undiagnosed1 , try and stabilise and not make any more cuts , I was c/t of 3 meds 5 months ago by the hospital , and I have no chance now of reinstatement , I wake like you and have that horrible anxiety and shakes and sweating everyday , so bad , I don't want you to be like me , you can lesson your time in withdrawel by slowing down , I can't please think about holding even if it's for a couple of months , these symptoms are truly awfull and we want to feel better but rushing will only prolong it , I took. 2mg of diazepam yesterday the first med in 5 months out of desperation , I felt relief today I am back to normal , these drugs only mask our problems , 

[Undiagnosed1]

June 12th was the last cut of anything that was trazodone. I have not taken anymore benzo at all. 

The only supplements I have taken are

Fish oil

Mag 

L-theanine

I awake everyday to racing thoughts

and feeling really down. Then the waves of intense anxiety on and off through the day until 4-5 pm when they stop I feel exhausted. I have no appetite. I feel much better after taking the traz only to wake up and do it all over again day in and day out for months now.

[AliG]

I'm sorry UD but it's probably going to be like that for a while. It takes time and patience and there is really no getting around it . To be off the drugs requires " going through it "

Are you off everything now ? Except trazadone? What is your schedule?

[Undiagnosed1]

I'm on gabapentin and trazodone

8:00 am 12.5 coreg, 250 mag, 200 theanine, 2 fish oil 

12:00pm 1fish oil, 250 mag

8:00pm 300 gabapentin 12.5 coreg

10:00pm 400 gabapentin 25 trazodone 

11:00pm 200 theanine

Bed

[Altostrata]

 

On 7/8/2017 at 7:02 AM, Undiagnosed1 said:

Yes mam I am taking 700mg every night. 

I have been at 700 for a little over a week now. 

I have been taking the dose only at night for a couple of months due to the dark thoughts and it causing more anxiety. 

....

 

You stopped taking a 300mg gabapentin morning dose in late June, is that correct?

 

Did your symptoms get worse after that?

 

On 7/8/2017 at 11:42 AM, Altostrata said:

....

 

My guess is that you might suffer rebound anxiety in the morning because the one big dose of 700mg gabapentin you took at night is wearing off.

 

If I were you, I might try dividing the gabapentin dose: Take 500mg at your regular time and take 200mg 2 hours earlier.

 

How are you taking your current evening gabapentin doses? What combination of capsules?

 

The only way to tell if symptoms are caused by a drug is to keep notes about your drug schedule and symptom pattern. Can you take 300mg gabapentin at 10 p.m. and 100mg at 11 p.m.? Then you would need to track your symptoms the next day and report them here.

[Undiagnosed1]

I stopped the morning dose in late may due to it causing dark thoughts. I didn't notice any change in symptoms.

 

I take one 300 gabapentin capsule at 8:00pm and a 300 and 100 at 10:00pm.

I can take the 100 at 11:00 and report back. 

 

What I find disturbing about the long taper is I see that people such as marie123 tapered traz to less than 1mg and still crash and burn when trying to jump off. Its very discouraging to see that. 

[Undiagnosed1]

Saturday night: 

8:00pm 300 gabapentin 12.5 coreg

10:00pm 300 gabapentin 25 traz

11:00pm 100 gabapentin 200 theanine

 

Sunday

7:30 awoke to a little anxiety 12.5 coreg 

9:00am anxiety and sweating

250 mag 1capsule fish oil

Tried to get busy cut some grass etc

3:00 pm full blown anxiety and sweating

7:00pm another wave anxiety and sweating 

8:00pm 300 gabapentin 

8:30pm anxiety calmed down 

10:00pm 300 gabapentin 25 traz

11:00pm 100 gabapentin 200 theanine

 

Monday 

7:30am awoke a little better traz fog

250 mag 1 capsule fish oil 200 theanine

12.5 coreg

11:00am sweating hands and feet

 

 

 

[Undiagnosed1]

High anxiety all day in till 5:00pm and just like that sweating stops and anxiety went away

 

[Undiagnosed1]

Tuesday: 

7:00am awoke traz fog anxious. Took 250 mag 1 capsule fish oil 200 theanine 

Laid back down woke up at 9:00am 

Ate breakfast/ eggs plain whole wheat waffles coreg 12.5

11:00am anxiety creeping back in

2:00pm had a snack massive brain fog sweating and horrible anxiety and joint pain muscle stiffness/ 4 oreos....250 mag

5:00pm things getting better 

6:30 dinner no food reaction/ baked spaghetti/ whole wheat pasta homemade sauce neufchatel cheese yogurt.

8:00pm 300 gaba 12.5 coreg

 

[Undiagnosed1]

If I want to split the doses of gabapentin how can I do that safely? Please advise as I need relief from this anxiety.

 

[Altostrata]

Is the symptom intensity dropping off at about 5 p.m. a consistent pattern? Did it change after you changed the timing of the evening gabapentin dosing?

 

From 

Quote

Half-lives
trazodone (8-15 hrs) ---> mCPP (2-6 hrs) ---> other metabolites (inactive)

 

 

mCPP is the major active metabolite of trazodone and can cause anxiety.

 

On 8/7/2017 at 3:06 PM, Undiagnosed1 said:

High anxiety all day in till 5:00pm and just like that sweating stops and anxiety went away

 

If you take trazodone at 10 p.m. and the anxiety quits every day around 5 p.m., 19 hours later, that would fit with the trazodone metabolism timeline. Your anxiety starts as trazodone wears off in the morning and continues until mCPP is at least half-way metabolized.

 

The way to test this is to lower the trazodone dosage. I am concerned that your prior reduction of trazodone did not seem to reduce the symptoms you feel during the day, but I guess you may be particularly sensitive to mCPP and react as much to whatever is produced by 25mg trazodone as 100mg.

 

mCPP needs to be excreted by your kidneys. Do you have high blood pressure? How are your kidneys? When was the last time you had a kidney function checkup?

[Undiagnosed1]

My blood pressure is in the normal range. I've never had a kidney function test.

 

The symptom pattern is very consistent. Looking back at notes things did improve some after the last reduction. 

 

My morning is a bit better after moving a gaba dose to 11:00pm. I awake a bit better but by 11:30 am my muscles start to become very tense and anxiety picks up. Then I have to take 250 mag to stop the muscles from tensing up. 

 

I'd like to spread the gaba back out and reduce the trazodone if you could please advise how to spread the dose back out. Maybe I could take a 100 at 11:00am 300 at 8:00pm and 300 at 11:00pm 

 

[Undiagnosed1]

Something doesn't feel right in my brain wth

[scallywag]

UDx1 How are you now, a few days later?

[Undiagnosed1]

As I know I can't ask but for so much support. This is day 3 off trazodone. I feel a lot better so far. I've only had one wave of anxiety in 3 days. I'm sleeping better so far on just the gabapentin. I've spaced that back out. I know the fallout is coming just not sure when. I have a lot of support and if things get bad I guess I'll have to reinstate.

I'll keep you guys posted. I'm sorry 

[mammaP]

UD don't apologise, you are feeling better and that is a good thing. Alto suspected the trazodone was making you sick but quitting it is always a gamble that can cost dearly and why we can't recommend it.  Keep us updated . 

 

[Undiagnosed1]

Thank you for the support I do know this is a gamble which scares the crap out of me. But if I do have to reinstate maybe I can do so at a much lower level. So far I'm sleeping much better not waking through the night and actually sleeping later. 

[Altostrata]

Trazodone is a treacherous drug.

[Undiagnosed1]

Just wanted to update everyone 

 

Still waking with dark ruminations all

Though still sleeping so that's a plus 

Still having some waves of anxiety which the gabapentin quells some.

Anxiety is when the ruminations get out of control. 

 

Still scared of being thrown into the dark hole I was in after stopping the mirt.

 

I'm not gonna bs I've thought about trying to reinstate a super tiny dose of the mirt to see if things would calm down. But I hate that drug it made me worthless not that not much better than that now. It just left me in the worst fog .

 

Does anyone think 0.15 would stop the dark ruminations and anxiety waves?

 

I've been off since February 26th

 

[Undiagnosed1]

Anybody..

[powerback]

36 minutes ago, Undiagnosed1 said:

Anybody..

This is crap for you sorry to hear,I couldnt recommend anything about meds ,but I will tell you I know what these dark rumminations are like ,there horrible ,im plagued by them,especially the morning ,ive just calmed myself down from them ripping me apart so you can learn with the non drug techniques ,we have to or the cycle of drugs doent end .

Hope you better today and dont believe the ruminations 

PB

[mammaP]

Hi UD, It seems that you are better now than you were and it is fear of what MIGHT happen that is making you think about reinstating mirtazepine. You are sleeping well which is a really good thing. Your body is repairing itself all the time and will continue to do so. I completely understand the need to do SOMETHING but right now I think it would be best to do nothing at all and let your body heal itself.  You are better than you were when you were taking trazodone, and your brain is still adapting so I would wait a while longer and see how things go. Try not to let fear rule you, I know it is hard but try to see the positives, how much better you are now than you were 2, 3, 6 months ago.  It is happening, you are getting better you just have to believe it. 

[Undiagnosed1]

I agree that things are better in some ways. Knock on wood things haven't gotten worse. 

 

Symptoms are

Never feel hungry 

Waking depressed and anxious 

No motivation to do anything

Just tired of feeling like this doc suggesting imipramine, anafranil or the k but I know the k will just cause more depression so ive resisted I'm sure the gabapentin plays in the depressive symptoms. 

 

[Undiagnosed1]

Need some advise asap.

My mother in law was diagnosed with cancer last Monday they started her on effexor on Wednesday 150mg  she wants to know if she can stop it if so how do we go about it. Please respond as soon as you can.

[joy2730]

I am not a moderator but I would say take 100 mg for the next 4 nights, then 50 mg for 4 nights, then 25 mg, then 10 mg for 3 nights and then stop.  It would be in the body and brain yet so this should be safe, but it is only based on personal experience, I wouldn't suddenly stop it but you don't want any more going in really.

 

Joy

[Undiagnosed1]

How do we go about this

[AliG]

UD  As it has only been a few doses it is probably ok to taper very quickly. You could taper over a few days if you think it is appropriate - then stop. Don't prolong it as it's probably unnecessary.

[Undiagnosed1]

How do I go about this ?

[joy2730]

I would empty the capsules out on to a sheet of paper and try and guess the amount and then mix what you are going to take with jam, a sort of guestimate.

 

Jou

[Undiagnosed1]

Update on my mother in law 

She's been having fits of rage and 

Some weepiness but so far that's it.

 

 

As for myself I feel like I'm reaching a breaking point. 

The anxiety and adrenaline surges everyday are pushing me to my limits. 

I continue to lose weight 

Pretty sure I've cracked a molar due to stress.

 

I did take .25 k for the first time in a long time today its was a huge relief at least for today. 

 

I'm seriously considering trying to reinstate m I'm not sure how much more my mind and body can take.

 

As for the trazodone ct I know there could be a delay but to up till now I've had nothing happen. The anxiety came down a tick but not enough to take me out of this hell.

[ChessieCat]

On 07/09/2017 at 0:01 AM, joy2730 said:

100 mg for the next 4 nights, then 50 mg for 4 nights, then 25 mg, then 10 mg for 3 nights and then stop.

 

This sounds reasonable.

 

See Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine)

[Undiagnosed1]

I just need to vent 

 

As I sit here and cry trying to remember a good moment, a moment of not suffering. I want to be able to have one good day without horrible anxiety and sadness a single day of being able to function normally. I so badly need some hope that this will end at some point. I'm tired of watching my gorgeous wife suffer through this, she has been nothing but the best and most supportive women I could ever ask for. She is my reason I continue to suffer everyday through this horrible existence. I want to give up daily but I cant . I can't hurt her like that I refuse to. I'm suffering so bad as we all are I just need some fing hope. 

[Undiagnosed1]

Just an update and a question

 

The horrible anxiety has settled 

 

The depression comes and goes as it pleases 

 

Some motivation windows here and there 

 

Meds are as follows 

8:00am two fish oil caps 12.5 coreg

10:00am 100mg gabapentin

3:00pm 100mg gabapentin

9:30pm 100mg gabapentin 12.5 coreg 

10:30pm 300mg gabapentin 

 

My question is about waking with horrible racing thoughts...

Do they go away? I'm not waking in a panic. They go away after getting out of bed. Could it be the gabapentin ? Or from the c/t of mirt in February 

 

I'm not reacting much to foods anymore other than horrible gas

 

My few symptoms are 

Some visual disturbances 

No appetite but I can eat just never feel hungry

No urge to use the restroom 

And the waking racing thoughts 

 

Any advise or suggestions would be appreciated

 

 

[Undiagnosed1]

So after all my suffering which is still not great I continued to try to and figure out what was causing such extreme problems so I decided to start tapering the one drug I had not touched the beta blocker got down from 12.5 twice a day to 12.5 once a day and noticed at night I was having a time where the deepest depression would lift some. So I decided to shift it to taking it at night instead of morning and sure enough the darkest part of hell relented some and the terrible anxiety was way less so its safe to say I'm going to try and get off this crap.

 

I had no idea that beta blocker could cause you to have such a horrible reaction not only was I deeply depressed and having horrible anxiety but I felt as though I was going crazy. How is this possible?

[Undiagnosed1]

I have a question for everyone has anybody had the waking racing thoughts go away? I am 9 months off a ct of mirtazapine and have had this ever since. I am pondering a reinstatement because its driving me mad.