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Jaco2016

Has anyone decided that it was best for them to stay on meds indefinitely?

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JakeS96

I'm not currently on any meds just struggling with the fact that maybe I NEED to be on meds. Don't know what's worse my life rn off meds barely making it through each day or on meds dealing with the side effects.

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JakeS96

Thinking about going back on Wellbutrin and maybe adding a Buspar. Just so desperate for some relief and some sort of sustainable lasting change

 

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Altostrata

To go off psychiatric drugs, some people have to unpatient themselves. You may not be ready to stop thinking of yourself as a patient.

 

We're not going to argue with you, Jake. This is your decision.

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JakeS96

How do you determine whether the way I'm feeling is the "illness" being a chemical imbalance or is a "cause" of antidepressant use? Doctors just listen to me and tell me that I'm depressed, anxiety, etc. and that I never truly gave medication a fair chance.

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Lloyd

I'm getting close to the point of just going back on Effexor. I was happy when i was on it & i did well for all those years. I just don't know if i can get back to that state & i'm sh*t scared of making things worse. The genies out of the bottle and i don't know if i can put it back in. If things get much worse i wont have a choice.

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JakeS96

Yea I feel you man. The longest I've ever taken an antidepressant consistently is like 2 months. I've either gotten off cause side effects or just cause I think I don't need them anymore. That's why a lot of doctors just tell me to give them a chance and a little longer for them to work. Considering going back on medicine just to help me get out of this rough patch but tbh I can't imagine ever coming off them if they help.

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Lloyd

Was on them for 15 years. Only the Effexor worked. I wanted to give myself 2 years to see if i could get through this but how bad do things have to get before i go back on?. I had serious problems before i ever went on medication and i now have a family to think about too. I guess i'm sh*t scared that if i go back on them & they don't work then i'm really f****d.

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JakeS96

yea man I feel the same way. Like I could go back on them and they really help and I progress or I go back on them and they don't help or make things worse or have some really bad side effects and then I have to taper off and go through withdrawals all over again. Don't want to dig myself a deeper hole I'm already in but also need to find relief

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SDOE

Wow Jake if you haven't been on these drugs for longer than 2 months that is a blessing in my book.  In my opinion the longer you're on them the harder is to get off them.  But everyone is different. I'm struggling at times wondering if I need to get back on Cymbalta because I am not a living a normal life right now either and haven't for a long time.  I'm a bit like Lloyd I don't know if I would be stable if I went back on them.

One of the things I tried recently was an acupuncturist and he also had a device called Alpha-Stim.  Felt nothing the first time.  The second time I felt at peace.  Although the next day it went away and I felt the rush anxiety come back.  Anyway, I've had about 8 treatments although it hasn't been consecutive days.  5 of those times I was able to sleep through the night more six hours (if I woke up I fell back asleep.) The device is expensive ($795) but I just ordered one because I want to see if I use it consistent basis if I get better results.  At this point I can't say it is a game-changer but I want to try as a last resort. I keep trying all sorts of stuff to avoid going back on the poison which I may have to go back on.

Also, if you feel bad & you haven't been on ADs long (and not on them now), have you ever looked into amino acids like l-tryptophan? Some people have a very sensitive system during withdrawal and can't use them.  

 

 

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Lloyd
2 hours ago, SDOE said:

Wow Jake if you haven't been on these drugs for longer than 2 months that is a blessing in my book.  In my opinion the longer you're on them the harder is to get off them.  But everyone is different. I'm struggling at times wondering if I need to get back on Cymbalta because I am not a living a normal life right now either and haven't for a long time.  I'm a bit like Lloyd I don't know if I would be stable if I went back on them.

One of the things I tried recently was an acupuncturist and he also had a device called Alpha-Stim.  Felt nothing the first time.  The second time I felt at peace.  Although the next day it went away and I felt the rush anxiety come back.  Anyway, I've had about 8 treatments although it hasn't been consecutive days.  5 of those times I was able to sleep through the night more six hours (if I woke up I fell back asleep.) The device is expensive ($795) but I just ordered one because I want to see if I use it consistent basis if I get better results.  At this point I can't say it is a game-changer but I want to try as a last resort. I keep trying all sorts of stuff to avoid going back on the poison which I may have to go back on.

 Also, if you feel bad & you haven't been on ADs long (and not on them now), have you ever looked into amino acids like l-tryptophan? Some people have a very sensitive system during withdrawal and can't use them.  

 

 

Its a difficult decision to reinstate and its something many doctors don't really understand. It's like playing Russian roulette with your life and the consequences are very real. Every day i wonder if i reinstate will it get better. I don't know so i guess i am waiting for things to get so bad that i don't really have a choice in it.

 

 

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JakeS96

Yea i just know my life isn't really stable rn without meds.

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SDOE

Lloyd I agree these drugs are really strong and a lot of people have worse withdrawals than I do.  One of my fears if I try to reinstate and it is unsuccessful will I end up with some of those other withdrawals. I now see in your signature you tried reinstating, unsuccessfully. We were both on SNRIs-long term.  

It sounds like I am very much like you and only want to reinstate as a very last resort.  I am trying all kinds of stuff first.  I do get frustrated at times when I feel like I'm going nowhere or moving backward.

 

 

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ShiningLight
On 6/23/2017 at 1:20 AM, joy2730 said:

The only consolation is we are not alone with this problem, it is society as a whole that owns the problem, and doctors in particular, along with the drug companies.

 

This. 1,000 times this.

 

In my observation of myself and others, people often start meds because with their particular bodies, they have trouble meeting societal expectations of "success," ie full time stressful job. Or, they're in pain and there's no real mental health network that can address that level of pain.

 

More and more, I believe that people choose meds over making lifestyle changes in order to conform to society's expectations and have a life that is considered successful, to fit in. But in the end it backfires and we end up having to make the lifestyle changes anyway, and are much worse off for years lost to meds (that's me, anyway).

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Lloyd
On 4/7/2019 at 1:07 AM, SDOE said:

Lloyd I agree these drugs are really strong and a lot of people have worse withdrawals than I do.  One of my fears if I try to reinstate and it is unsuccessful will I end up with some of those other withdrawals. I now see in your signature you tried reinstating, unsuccessfully. We were both on SNRIs-long term.  

It sounds like I am very much like you and only want to reinstate as a very last resort.  I am trying all kinds of stuff first.  I do get frustrated at times when I feel like I'm going nowhere or moving backward.

 

 

The first reinstatement i did June to Dec 2017 at full dose actually worked quite well. 6-7 hours after taking the Effexor i felt happy and back at peace & brain fog completely gone. I was pretty much back to normal. The anxiety / panic attack symptoms also disappeared too. Everything was going fine for a few months until i was prescribed pramipexole for restless legs. Took one pill & was in the hospital that night with severe shaking something like a major panic attack. Ever since that night nothing was right. I had inner restlessness and anxiety episodes starting up. I thought the Effexor was causing it & decided to stop it over the course of a few weeks. And now here i am with worse symptoms then before.

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cpuusage
8 hours ago, ShiningLight said:

 

This. 1,000 times this.

 

In my observation of myself and others, people often start meds because with their particular bodies, they have trouble meeting societal expectations of "success," ie full time stressful job. Or, they're in pain and there's no real mental health network that can address that level of pain.

 

More and more, I believe that people choose meds over making lifestyle changes in order to conform to society's expectations and have a life that is considered successful, to fit in. But in the end it backfires and we end up having to make the lifestyle changes anyway, and are much worse off for years lost to meds (that's me, anyway).

 

i think that it is individual, in depth & complex. i was forced sectioned / forced treated 4 times & made dependent on the medication. i fought the system from day one. How ever i try coming off & stopping the medication, i go into very severe / near catatonic psychosis. 

 

i have a history / diagnosis of severe schizophrenia. What exactly was i & am i meant to do about it all? The condition / symptoms are very real & exists. 

 

i think that this article describes things very well - 

i'm in the UK, but it's really no better than the US - 

Killing “Schizophrenics”: Contemporary U.S. Psychiatry Versus Nazi Psychiatry - 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/02/killing-schizophrenics-nazi-psychiatry/

Punishing the Patient - 

https://sites.google.com/site/punishingthepatient/home

Peerly Human - 

http://peerlyhuman.blogspot.com/2017/03/not-broken-biology-getting-beyond.html

 

Acknowledging The Survivor: Exclusion, Trivialisation and Denial

JANUARY 24, 2011 BY ADMIN

https://beyondmeds.com/2011/01/24/acknowledgesurvivor/

What's needed is a genuine transformation of the society / system around all these areas, & the way that people are treated. It's Not my fault the ways that i have been treated / not properly helped, & the way that this society / culture / system is around it all. Self help / personal responsibility etc only goes so far. 

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cpuusage
11 minutes ago, cpuusage said:

Killing “Schizophrenics”: Contemporary U.S. Psychiatry Versus Nazi Psychiatry - 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/02/killing-schizophrenics-nazi-psychiatry/


"In many indigenous and tribal societies, people experiencing altered and extreme emotional states do not create havoc but are seen in a positive light. This can be seen in Psychosis or Spiritual Awakening, by filmmaker Phil Borges, who has been documenting indigenous and tribal cultures for over 25 years. Similarly, the late ethnobotanist, Terence McKenna, who also studied indigenous and tribal societies, also concluded that our society does great harm by devaluing the gifts of this population who are instead told: “You are not of equal worth to the rest of us. You are sick. You have to go to the hospital. You have to be locked up.” Their “treatment,” McKenna notes, renders them “on a par with prisoners and lost dogs in our society,” and McKenna concludes: “So that treatment of schizophrenia makes it incurable.”
 

When people get treated as unwelcome burdens, they can become angry and agitated or, depending on their temperament, become passively dysfunctional.
 

In American society—just as in any other society that prioritizes economic efficiency, productivity and order over life and all of life’s varieties—people experiencing altered and extreme emotional states are seen as defective and as burdens. In the American economic system—just as in any other system that obliterates genuine community and creates extremely stressed families already struggling to find enough hours in the day to survive—people experiencing altered and extreme emotional states create havoc for families. And so, families are susceptible to resenting those in altered and extreme emotional states who need a great deal of attention, support and time; and families are vulnerable to acquiescing to any societally sanctioned authority who has taken charge of this population. And given the priorities of American society, an authority with a lengthy record of abuse and dismal failure is a good enough authority."

Quote from the above article. 

Yup - sums it all up. The only thing that i would have some question around is the fact that a percentage of people are in fact suffering very severe mental illness. Even within a more ideal system they still would be, & there would still be the questions as to how to best treat them. 

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cpuusage

The current realities of this society / system are too much to bear for some people - 
 

UN confirms that UK government’s treaty violations were both grave AND systematic

 

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/un-confirms-that-uk-governments-treaty-violations-were-both-grave-and-systematic/

 

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/CRPD/Pages/InquiryProcedure.aspx

 

Austerity linked to 120,000 extra deaths in England

[current estimates the deaths from UK austerity over the past 10 years is between 200 to 500 thousand of the most vulnerable citizens]

 

16 November 2017

 

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/1117/161117-austerity-deaths-england

 

A quiet genocide of the disabled in America

 

https://medium.com/@emilywolinsky/a-quiet-genocide-of-the-disabled-in-america-a35982e6abb5

 

Aktion T4 -

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4

 

Eugenics -

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

 

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Shep
3 hours ago, cpuusage said:

What's needed is a genuine transformation of the society / system around all these areas, & the way that people are treated. It's Not my fault the ways that i have been treated / not properly helped, & the way that this society / culture / system is around it all. Self help / personal responsibility etc only goes so far. 

 

Very true, CPU. We do need a social safety net in order to have a functional society. 

 

In many ways, drugging people into silence is just a way of silencing the social problems they represent. Some people with more resources and contacts are able to survive it, but others won't. Picking yourself up by your bootstraps only works if you've got boots. 

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cpuusage
32 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Very true, CPU. We do need a social safety net in order to have a functional society. 

 

In many ways, drugging people into silence is just a way of silencing the social problems they represent. Some people with more resources and contacts are able to survive it, but others won't. Picking yourself up by your bootstraps only works if you've got boots. 

 

Yes true. But i do think the debate about the aetiology needs to find some kind of closure - all variable / potential biological, psychogenic, sociological & soul / spiritual / transpersonal areas i do think need to be taken into account - these are in my view whole person conditions & need a comprehensive integral model of understanding & approach. 

Of course there are variables within the severity of people's conditions / experiences, & varying levels of resources / privilege. 

 

We certainly need a robust social security system & enactment of human rights for the basic protection of certain demographics of people. 

After reading a lot of books on mental health i was impressed by the book Psycho politics by Peter Sedgwick, which has a very robust & sensible critique of anti-psychiatry. 

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ShiningLight

CPU, Shep...well said, I agree!

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SDOE
20 hours ago, Lloyd said:

The first reinstatement i did June to Dec 2017 at full dose actually worked quite well. 6-7 hours after taking the Effexor i felt happy and back at peace & brain fog completely gone. I was pretty much back to normal. The anxiety / panic attack symptoms also disappeared too. Everything was going fine for a few months until i was prescribed pramipexole for restless legs. Took one pill & was in the hospital that night with severe shaking something like a major panic attack. Ever since that night nothing was right. I had inner restlessness and anxiety episodes starting up. I thought the Effexor was causing it & decided to stop it over the course of a few weeks. And now here i am with worse symptoms then before.

7

Yikes!  Looks like in your signature you even tried up-dosing in small amounts after the pramipexole pill.  

Sounds like Jake and I need to tread carefully if we do reinstate...

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Lloyd
2 hours ago, SDOE said:

Yikes!  Looks like in your signature you even tried up-dosing in small amounts after the pramipexole pill.  

Sounds like Jake and I need to tread carefully if we do reinstate...

Best to start with a small amount first if you do choose to up dose. I noticed the Effexor was still quite powerful at the lower doses i was taking. 5 Beads (Out of a capsule of 120+) blew away the anxiety within a few hours which was nice. I probably should have just stuck with it at that point but i was pretty confused about what was happening to me and didnt know if i was going to make things worse.

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SDOE
19 hours ago, Lloyd said:

Best to start with a small amount first if you do choose to up dose. I noticed the Effexor was still quite powerful at the lower doses i was taking. 5 Beads (Out of a capsule of 120+) blew away the anxiety within a few hours which was nice. I probably should have just stuck with it at that point but i was pretty confused about what was happening to me and didnt know if i was going to make things worse.

Thanks for the info.  I'm still not ready to give up and do reinstatement but I will definitely keep your advice in mind.  I don't doubt that even a few beads are powerful because when I finally tapered off Cymbalta at 2.5mg I didn't think I would suffer any withdrawals other than insomnia that I already had.  I was wrong; my emotions were like a rollercoaster...

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thecowisback
On 11/8/2017 at 4:12 PM, JanCarol said:

 

Yes, this is so true.

 

It's a personal choice, and while this site is designed for coming off drugs - sometimes just getting to the lowest possible dose of the fewest drugs is the best option.

 

Many have had to go back to full doses (or half doses) and plan to hold there indefinitely until they get side effects, tolerance, or health problems.

It's a hard choice, maybe the hardest choice to make for yourself.

 

If I were still in Indiana, where life was harder, and I struggled hand-to-mouth, I would probably still be drugged.  I would never have had the lithium (which was what made me sickest), and would try to keep the doses as low as possible so I could work.  But I looked at my Indiana records, and what I thought of as "low dose" then is quite different from what I think of as low dose now.

 

 

Age is a huge consideration, considering that people die on antidepressants 30% younger than those not on antidepressants.

 

Something to think about.  I'm sorry I can't quote the exact studies - there are several - stated different ways - Antidepressant users lived 7-12 years fewer years, for example.

It complicates things such as cardiac memory issues, and we might even suffer more falls (I know I am more clumsy than the average bear).

I was 53 when I finished my taper.  I might have gained a year or two from doing so.  I might have gained 10, since I still have both my kidneys (lithium), I'm not on dialysis,  and the cardiac thing has been caught early (hopefully).  I do still struggle with the "metabolic disorder" though.

In Harm Reduction, Will Hall talks not about the drugs - that's a personal choice.  Instead, he talks about "how can we reduce harm?"

 

This might include getting off toxic drugs.  Or it might mean getting the person a shower, a warm meal, a listening friend, a bed to sleep in, a safe place to stay away from abuse.  These are about harm reduction, too.



 

 

 

sorry, i don't know how to quote just part of this post on my tablet.

how much truth is there in the statement above that people die 30% younger with long term use of ad's? 

this is a very scary thing to hear!

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powerback
5 minutes ago, thecowisback said:

 

 

sorry, i don't know how to quote just part of this post on my tablet.

how much truth is there in the statement above that people die 30% younger with long term use of ad's? 

this is a very scary thing to hear!

OH No TCIB ,please don't be reading these articles when so ill ,there are a lot of variable's involved in peoples circumstances .

Im off to watch a movie ,I recommend the same .

Total respect . 

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thecowisback

good advice pb!!!

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powerback
10 minutes ago, thecowisback said:

good advice pb!!!

Google the movie ,tropic thunder ,youl die laughing quicker lol.night .

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ShiningLight

Sobering statistic, but don't forget correlation does not necessarily equal causality.

 

Depression itself is associated with having a sedentary lifestyle, poor social support, poor nutrition/eating habits, poor sleep...all factors influencing morbitity and mortality.

 

Now. I'm going to check out that movie, because laughter is great medicine! 😛

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powerback
4 minutes ago, ShiningLight said:

Sobering statistic, but don't forget correlation does not necessarily equal causality.

 

Depression itself is associated with having a sedentary lifestyle, poor social support, poor nutrition/eating habits, poor sleep...all factors influencing morbitity and mortality.

 

Now. I'm going to check out that movie, because laughter is great medicine! 😛

👍

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thecowisback
2 hours ago, powerback said:

Google the movie ,tropic thunder ,youl die laughing quicker lol.night .

haha- i've seen that - very funny film! ended up watching upgrade, an australian sci fi movie ☺

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thecowisback
10 hours ago, ShiningLight said:

Sobering statistic, but don't forget correlation does not necessarily equal causality.

 

Depression itself is associated with having a sedentary lifestyle, poor social support, poor nutrition/eating habits, poor sleep...all factors influencing morbitity and mortality.

 

Now. I'm going to check out that movie, because laughter is great medicine! 😛

👍👍👍

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DavidfromTexas
Posted (edited)

Are there some people who have had to give up their dream to be off medication because they found that after tapering correctly that they still needed the meds in order to function and be happy in everyday life? Like they needed them the same way they did when they first started them?

 

In my case, I’ve been on them for 20 years, since I was 10 or 11 years old. For the last several years when I was perfectly stable on them, I always wanted to try living without them. Now I’m trying, but it’s not going so well, I think partially because of withdrawal. But part of me also thinks that I might just need them in order to be a functioning and happy human being. And that makes me really sad. I’ve never done any cognitive therapy in my life, we tried a couple sessions when I was a kid and was first hit with my OCD and Anxiety issues, but I was non-responsive...I just couldn’t handle CBT at that time and at such a young age. 

Maybe I can try CBT as I’m tapering off he drugs, whenever that might happen, and see if it works for me and is able to help me cope when I’m off them entirely. 

 

In the end, I just want to be happy in my life. I’d like to see if I can do that without the meds. My main worry about being on the meds is if life-long use could impose greater health risks.  

 

But. I guess I’d rather live a shorter happier life than a longer miserable life. That’s REALLY hard to think about. 

 

Edit: After posting this, I JUST saw the posts above this about people dying younger from Anti-depressant use and thats my fear! What is cardiac memory? Something to do with heart problems I assume. 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
reduced font

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ChessieCat
1 hour ago, DavidfromTexas said:

After posting this, I JUST saw the posts above this about people dying younger from Anti-depressant use and thats my fear!

 

I've been on an antidepressant for at least 25 years and I'm now 61.  It's a bit like the cancer scares.  When I was growing up they said that cling wrap caused cancer, and there are lots of other things that they say do.  If we lived our lives fearing everything, we would enclose ourselves and probably die from loneliness (tongue in cheek comment).

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DavidfromTexas

Thank you, @ChessieCat

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Lloyd
Posted (edited)

Hi David, I'm in the same boat right now. I've been off all medications for 19 months (aside from very small reinstatement for 6 weeks in between). I'm giving myself 2 years to see if things get better. If they haven't improved and are still declining then i will likely have to try going back on the medication. I can't spend the rest of my life hoping it will get better when my health just deteriorates and i loose everything ive worked for. I just pray it doesn't make things worse.

 

Edited by ChessieCat
removed obscenity

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