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Energy medicine and Dr. Alice W. Lee


Tomash
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Hello,

 

I read discussions here about how so far, no commercial program for withdrawal is recommended. However, I noticed recommendation on Mad in America for this approach:

 

http://www.holisticpsychiatrist.com/

 

It seems to me quite reasonable, especially the method of switching from olanzapin to less extensive antipsychotics during withdrawal.

That do you think? Do you have any experiences, comments etc.?

2002 - MDMA induced psychosis, seroquel and st. worth. Abstinence from drugs. 2003 - psychosis relapse: olanzapin and citalec

2012 - 5mg of zyprexa and 150 Wellbutrin, starting with ayurveda helped
2015 - too fast and uniformed withdrawal; hospitalized and remedicated, first to 15mg Zyprexa; lowered to 10mg of Zyprexa when discharged. Abstinence from alcohol now on.

2016, sept – hospitalized again, forced treatment: 10 mg Zyprexa and 400mg amisulprid (Amilia).

2017 hospitalization (added abilify)

2018 so far last hospitalization

2019 heart palpitations, abrubt abilify withdrawal, stabilization on 5mg of olanzapin since then

 

Current medications and dosages:
5mg of olanzapin

 

Current supplements: Mentat (ayurvedic herbal blend for mental issues), St. worth (one cup a day), I drink mineral water

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Where on Mad in America's website did you see this?

 

I'm not sure about her supplementation ideas. Aside from that, her approach to medication withdrawal is sensible:

  • work on lifestyle changes before reducing dose -- eat a nutritious diet, improve stress resilience
  • reduce dose slowly
  • consider effects on hormones (endocrine system) and immune systems

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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Hi Tomash,

 

We did actually work with the doctor you are asking about for almost 2 years (before finding SA), and I would like to share our experience with you.

 

We found her to be highly compassionate, articulate, calming, an excellent listener, and knowledgeable about nutrition. We worked with her via skype, once a week, and filed our own claims with insurance.

 

Before beginning our son's taper off prozac, she put him on a diet free of gluten, casein, corn, table salt and refined sugar, and prescribed that he drink green juices/smoothies every day. We were extremely faithful to this diet, and our son experienced phenomenal improvements. Within a couple of weeks, he began to sleep through the night for the first time in his life (at age 18), to have daily bowel movements (had been at every 3 days), and his tics vanished. Within 2 months, he had lost 27 pounds (at 6 feet tall he dropped to 136 pounds). He had never been overweight, but was a little "doughy"; I believe the rapid weight loss was due to him shedding toxins that had been stored in his fat tissue due to leaky gut.

 

She also used her energy healing, which was pretty much a guided meditation. Our son remained very skeptical of this part of her practice, but agreed to participate because he and I had discussed the benefits of meditation.

 

After that first 2 months, she started him on an orthomolecular regimen and began his taper. The regimen consisted of at least 2 dozen supplements - all started at the same time. Keeping up with the schedule was daunting, as was the expense, but our son's suffering was extreme and we were desperate. Simultaneously, she began his taper.

 

Because she started all the supplements at the same time, there was no way to know which (if any) of them might be helping him. As you've certainly read elsewhere on this site, many supplements are unsuitable to individuals in w/d. Also, our son soon developed severe diarrhea, and it was impossible to know which of the supplements might be responsible. She suggested that diarrhea was the lesser of two evils when considering his use of the toxic prozac, and that he needed all the supplements to replenish his body which had actually been nutritionally deprived all his life due to the leaky gut. I do believe he was malnourished, but in hindsight, what he really needed was lots of whole food that he was able to digest.

 

My greatest concern (and caution to you) was her rate of taper. She tapered our son off 60mg prozac in 3 months. His nervous system went into absolute chaos, rendering him completely disabled. He remains in protracted withdrawal to this day, more than 3 years post-taper. We actually continued to work with her for about a year following the completion of his taper due to her reassurances that she could help him, but eventually discontinued working with her when he remained disabled so long.

 

I do not personally believe she has any magic bullet that can speed up the time it takes for damaged synapses to mend.

 

Currently, we're following the recommendations of those on this site who have gone before us. His supplements include fish oil, magnesium and vit. D. He has recently started working with a functional medicine practitioner, who recommended adding back in probiotics and digestive enzymes (he had been on these with Dr. L, but we had removed them after leaving her practice). The diarrhea finally cleared up. He is also on the SCD/GAPS diet, which was the final piece he needed to minimize his panic attacks. We keep his life as stress-free as possible, and he is ever-so-slowly, but surely, recovering from withdrawal.

 

Make of all that what you will. It may be that she has learned more about appropriate rate of taper; it has been a couple of years since we worked with her and she prides herself on keeping up with the literature in alternative healing. And if you decide to work with her, you could let her know you want to focus on her energy healing rather than the supplements. Whatever you decide, I wish you the best in your journey toward wellness.

Siskin

 

Raven's med history:

2001-2006 Paxil 40g

5/06 - 7/06 off meds

7/06 - 10/13 Prozac

4/12 - 11/12 Abilify

11/12 - 12/12 Risperdal

12/12 - 3/13 Geodon

7/13 - 10/13 tapered off Prozac

10/13 - present: med free

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I'd like to add that following our son's work with the doctor, he no longer exhibits the very severe OCD for which he was originally medicated. So while our experience was that she was unable to help with tapering/withdrawal, she did help with his underlying problem. Having said that, I suspect we could have achieved the same results on our own if we had put him directly on the SCD/GAPS diet, basic supplements approved by SA, and green juices/smoothies, along with meditation and gentle exercise.

Siskin

 

Raven's med history:

2001-2006 Paxil 40g

5/06 - 7/06 off meds

7/06 - 10/13 Prozac

4/12 - 11/12 Abilify

11/12 - 12/12 Risperdal

12/12 - 3/13 Geodon

7/13 - 10/13 tapered off Prozac

10/13 - present: med free

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  • Moderator Emeritus

 

It seems to me quite reasonable, especially the method of switching from olanzapin to less extensive antipsychotics during withdrawal.

That do you think? Do you have any experiences, comments etc.?

 

Tomash,

 

I think the broad brush general concepts are similar to those adopted by a lot of other holistic psychiatrists in connection with medicine withdrawal.  E.g., Kelly Brogan would say that it makes sense to build up your system for 30 days or more before you begin your taper so you can do so from the best possible place. She seems to "get it" generally but the devil is often in the details.  I don't know how many patients she has dealt with over the years and what her success rate is, but I can see why MIA would think she was certainly "better than most."

 

Having said that, I read Siskin's post above and the question of "how slow is slow" is one that needs to be fleshed out at the very earliest stages of working with someone.  I wonder how she would react to someone coming in armed with the knowledge of the SA website and discussing the issues from a place of greater knowledge.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012

increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement

Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first")

Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15

Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid 
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15

Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016

10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg.  No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold.

After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation

Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C,

 

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Where on Mad in America's website did you see this?

 

I'm not sure about her supplementation ideas. Aside from that, her approach to medication withdrawal is sensible:

  • work on lifestyle changes before reducing dose -- eat a nutritious diet, improve stress resilience
  • reduce dose slowly
  • consider effects on hormones (endocrine system) and immune systems

 

I must make one thing clear: She is mentioned in this discussion: https://www.madinamerica.com/forums/topic/insomnia-caused-by-zyprexa-withdrawal/page/2/. She is not among recommended MIA professionals per se.

 

Thank you for experiences. I willl not use her services as I am from Europe. What seemed to me interesting was the idea of switching from Zyprexa to Seroquel to Haldol as a withdrawal process. When I first tried withdrawal from Zyprexa unsuccesfully, I felt that my whole body is in total chaos, not only brain. She is explaining this by receptors in stomach and other parts of the body, including brain of course. I have a recovery oriented psychiatrist, who does only what I agree with. I think if I suggest him I want to withdraw this way he would be helpful and prescribe me those meds. Zyprexa is really devil drug.

2002 - MDMA induced psychosis, seroquel and st. worth. Abstinence from drugs. 2003 - psychosis relapse: olanzapin and citalec

2012 - 5mg of zyprexa and 150 Wellbutrin, starting with ayurveda helped
2015 - too fast and uniformed withdrawal; hospitalized and remedicated, first to 15mg Zyprexa; lowered to 10mg of Zyprexa when discharged. Abstinence from alcohol now on.

2016, sept – hospitalized again, forced treatment: 10 mg Zyprexa and 400mg amisulprid (Amilia).

2017 hospitalization (added abilify)

2018 so far last hospitalization

2019 heart palpitations, abrubt abilify withdrawal, stabilization on 5mg of olanzapin since then

 

Current medications and dosages:
5mg of olanzapin

 

Current supplements: Mentat (ayurvedic herbal blend for mental issues), St. worth (one cup a day), I drink mineral water

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