Madeleine: tapering Zyprexa (then Zoloft)

[Madeleine]

Hmm?  What do you think? I'm on 25 mg. now.  I went right now to take my dose, as thought I had forgotten to take today's pill. I looked in the pill box.  The one for Sunday was still there! But, Monday was missing, and Tuesday was there.  So, either I took one yesterday from the wrong box, i.e. Monday's or I forgot yesterday's and already took today's earlier.  Truly, I can't remember.

I was thinking of just riding it through and make sure I take Tuesdays, tomorrow? The other option is taking one today, with the possibility that I might then double up, taking yesterday's and today's  Any thoughts on what to do? 

(I know, I really need to pay more attention to what I am doing, when I am taking them.  It has become such a routine, that when I pop them into my mouth, I don't even think about it... and my mind is on other things, so then I don't remember if I took them or not -- hence the pill box, with the days on them... but that strategy seems to have failed me today...)

[Spideygsm]

Madeline,

 

Since the purpose is to get off the drug, by tapering, the goal is to slowly get the drugs out of our system. If it were me, ride it out since you’re unsure. You may be just fine. 

 

As many psych drugs as ive had to get off, I’ve forgotten just like you. Ride it out. Less is better?

 

Maybe a moderator can jump in. I’m no expert. I enjoy seeing people endure like you. 

 

Best of luck

[Madeleine]

2 hours ago, Spideygsm said:

Madeline,

 

Since the purpose is to get off the drug, by tapering, the goal is to slowly get the drugs out of our system. If it were me, ride it out since you’re unsure. You may be just fine. 

 

As many psych drugs as ive had to get off, I’ve forgotten just like you. Ride it out. Less is better?

 

Maybe a moderator can jump in. I’m no expert. I enjoy seeing people endure like you. 

 

Best of luck

Thanks for your quick reply spidey. I appreciate it.  You are right , I think, less is more and will just need to be more careful and pay attention more in the future when I’m taking the pills. 

[Madeleine]

Made another cut today. Now at 23.5 mg wolof.  
Best wishes to all,
M.

[wantrelief]

You are doing great, Madeleine!  Best wishes on this last cut.

[marconyc]

@Madeleine your story is really inspiring. I also tapered slowly off of Zoloft—I spent a year and a half going from 150 to 50 mg after being on 150 for 17 years. Then I was walloped with withdrawal that coincided with major life stressors. I ended up back on Zoloft, but 200 mg, as well as Abilify and Klonopin. I thought I was losing my mind. Now 2 years later I’m off Klonopin and have tapered the Abilify from 1 mg to 0.4. You give me hope that I might be able to reduce my Zoloft at some point. Thank you.

[Madeleine]

On 2/7/2019 at 11:20 PM, marconyc said:

@Madeleine your story is really inspiring. I also tapered slowly off of Zoloft—I spent a year and a half going from 150 to 50 mg after being on 150 for 17 years. Then I was walloped with withdrawal that coincided with major life stressors. I ended up back on Zoloft, but 200 mg, as well as Abilify and Klonopin. I thought I was losing my mind. Now 2 years later I’m off Klonopin and have tapered the Abilify from 1 mg to 0.4. You give me hope that I might be able to reduce my Zoloft at some point. Thank you.

Thank you Marcon for stopping by and for your encouragement... sounds like we've had somewhat of a similar journey, in that we were on high dose of Zoloft, then tapered down, then due to stressors ended back up on high dose of 200 again, plus other things... 

Congratulations for getting off Klonopin. That's an achievement in itself, and also you are well on your way to being off Abilify.  I found that when I went off the Zoloft totally, a few months later, I had stressors and then delayed withdrawal kicked in.  I went to see a cognitive behavioural therapist for over a year, and he taught me to reframe my thinking so as not to ramp up my nervous system...  When I had a bit of stress before, my mind used to go into overdrive with thoughts of looming disaster, hopelessness, etc., and that would spiral me down... 

It was expensive seeing a therapist, but was well worth it.   There are however quite a few good cognitive behavioural therapy self-help books with workbooks, and those are good too...

I definitely think you will be able to reduce the Zoloft at some point too at some point when you are ready. Give yourself time to settle down and feel stable after you get off Abilify, and then slowly slowly you can do it... 

I have had no withdrawal from my last cut to 23.5 and it's a long way from 200....it took a long time, but I got here.  If I can do it, I am sure you and others can do.  Make sure, though, that you have good ways to cope with any stressors that you experience along the way. That's important. 

With very best wishes,

Madeline

[Madeleine]

On 2/6/2019 at 6:56 PM, wantrelief said:

You are doing great, Madeleine!  Best wishes on this last cut.

Thanks WantRelief for coming by my thread and cheering me on.  It's always encouraging and nice to hear from others in the forum as it makes us feel we are not alone 🙂

[marconyc]

3 hours ago, Madeleine said:

Thank you Marcon for stopping by and for your encouragement... sounds like we've had somewhat of a similar journey, in that we were on high dose of Zoloft, then tapered down, then due to stressors ended back up on high dose of 200 again, plus other things... 

Congratulations for getting off Klonopin. That's an achievement in itself, and also you are well on your way to being off Abilify.  I found that when I went off the Zoloft totally, a few months later, I had stressors and then delayed withdrawal kicked in.  I went to see a cognitive behavioural therapist for over a year, and he taught me to reframe my thinking so as not to ramp up my nervous system...  When I had a bit of stress before, my mind used to go into overdrive with thoughts of looming disaster, hopelessness, etc., and that would spiral me down... 

It was expensive seeing a therapist, but was well worth it.   There are however quite a few good cognitive behavioural therapy self-help books with workbooks, and those are good too...

I definitely think you will be able to reduce the Zoloft at some point too at some point when you are ready. Give yourself time to settle down and feel stable after you get off Abilify, and then slowly slowly you can do it... 

I have had no withdrawal from my last cut to 23.5 and it's a long way from 200....it took a long time, but I got here.  If I can do it, I am sure you and others can do.  Make sure, though, that you have good ways to cope with any stressors that you experience along the way. That's important. 

With very best wishes,

Madeline

 

Thank you @Madeleine

[marconyc]

@Madeleine What kinds of withdrawal symptoms did you experience? If you aren't comfortable discussing that, I understand. 

[Madeleine]

On 2/21/2019 at 7:30 PM, marconyc said:

@Madeleine What kinds of withdrawal symptoms did you experience? If you aren't comfortable discussing that, I understand. 

This time around I am not feeling any real withdrawal symptoms.... if I am late in taking my dose, my head feels very spacey and fuzzy and difficulty concentrating.... but when I take the dose, I'm OK.  And, generally tapering this time around, going 10 per cent a month it's all good, apart from the fuzziness if I am late taking the dose.

Before, i.e. in the past, when tapering off the other drugs, i.e. anti-psychotic and and tapering off the Benz, I felt all sorts of symptoms, twitches, insomnia, anxiety....

Last time tapering Zoloft wasn't too bad, apart from 2-3 months after my last dose, I had a lot of stress and unresolved issues and got delayed withdrawal -- very anxious and unsettled...fuzzy mind. And, I panicked and went to the hospital and ended up in the hospital and on the drugs again...  This time around I have gone for long-term cognitive behavioural therapy to deal with the issues that cause me stress and this time around I am just going to ride out if I feel anything once I get totally off.

Hope that helps.

[marconyc]

Thanks @Madeleine I guess I was curious if you experienced any depression as the result of withdrawal. Some of the symptoms I've experienced seem very clearly to be withdrawal, in part because I never experienced them before meds: for example, dizziness, nausea, or a kind of inner restlessness that I can't sit still. But other symptoms, such as anxiety and depression, are things I experienced before meds. Sometimes it's hard for me to distinguish between withdrawal and what my pdoc claims is simply recurrence of an underlying disorder.

[Madeleine]

Yes, I experienced depression, low moods, while tapering, and I had experienced that before I started the psych drugs.  That's why I ended up on them in the first place as I was extremely depressed.  But, I personally don't refer to the depression that I had as an "underlying disorder" though that is how doctors will refer to it...  

My depression was caused by negative thoughts and those negative thoughts led to more negative thoughts and it was a downward spiral, caused by my inability to deal with certain things I was facing in life and my ways of thinking about myself, thinking I was inadequate etc.  These thoughts and ways of thinking stemmed from all sorts of things going far back into my childhood. 

I spoke to a psychiatrist for years, just "venting".  I'd feel better after, just as if I'd talked to a friend, but wasn't taught how to properly address and change or fix my thinking, behaviour and actions, to ensure I wouldn't get depressed.  The therapist, on the other hand, taught me practical techniques and ways to stop myself from thinking myself into a depression...

But, yes, withdrawal can cause low moods and anxiety for sure... So, you need to learn how to keep your mood up through those feelings, tell yourself it's temporary etc.   If you can't afford a therapist -- as it's expensive often, unless you have benefits of some kind, or have access to therapy for free through some kind of program,  then there are some good self-help books like Feeling Good by David Burns.   

For me, the price of paying for it was worth it.  Luckily my husband was on board too.  He went with me to an early session with the therapist and thought he knew what he was doing, and we decided we could get a new car, or build an addition, or invest in my mental health...  

It's a type of training, or retraining for your mind, and like going to a gym, you have to work at it... Sometimes I don't work at it enough, but it's definitely been worth it for me...  I went twice a week, then weekly then monthly and now only go when I need a refresher.  

Best wishes,
M.

 

[Madeleine]

Update: I'm now down to 20 mg Zoloft.  For some reason I can't change my signature right now, so I'm noting my dose here.  It seems I've come so far from a 200 mg maximum -- I'm at only 10% of my starting dose.  Yet, it seems so far from the finish line.  I can really tell that 20 mg is a significant amount because if I'm late a few hours in taking it I get all jittery and fuzzy headed.   But, I must look on the positive side.  20 mg is a lot better than 200!

 

Best wishes to all!

M.

[marconyc]

Thanks @Madeleine I believe strongly in the value of talk therapy as well. I have an excellent therapist. 

 

Congrats on doing so well with your taper!

[marconyc]

@Madeleine How are you doing?

[Madeleine]

On 4/16/2019 at 12:29 PM, marconyc said:

@Madeleine How are you doing?

Hi Marcon: 
Sorry it took me so long to reply.  I am doing well! :-). Hope you are too.
Best wishes,
M.

[Madeleine]

Made a cut.  Likely a bit too fast... Down to 12.5 mg.  Currently, taking a 25 mg pill, opening it and putting the powder inside the capsule into 25 ml water, dissolving it.  Then, taking half of the mixed liquid one day, and the other half the next day.

I plan to stay at this dose until July 31 -- so 6 weeks rather than my usual 4.  I was cutting 10% per month, but slowed down in a few times, so I think in order to keep up with my overall schedule, I sped up a bit 😕. I know this is not good, but I have a limited number of pills and don't want to go to the doctor again to get more if I don't have to.  Before, I was taking out the required amount from the 25 ml, and then tossing the rest...This way, my supply of pills will last much longer. But, I will have to hold longer than a month at certain points, I know going forward...

I have come a long way, from 200 mg in June 2017, so it has been two years since I started tapering... It's very tempting to rush at this point, even though I was so patient at the beginning -- but I know that this last 12.5 mg should be very slow...  I know one should not try to be too tied to a schedule and slow down if necessary, but I do hope that I can do this part in a year....  With the method I am using, water titration, it's very hard to make accurate cuts of less than 1 mg, so I will try to make 1 mg cuts throughout and hold longer than a month at times if necessary.

So far, I have been feeling generally ok, though a little bit edgy at times and also feeling a bit of abnormal fatigue...

Well, that's my update for now....

Wishing all of you fellow taperers all the best....

[Altostrata]

Good to hear from you, Madeleine. You might want to try an oral syringe for measuring your dose now.

[Madeleine]

Well, it's been some time since I posted.  I'm still tapering.  Have been feeling fine, and getting on with life. Now at 6 mg Zoloft as of the beginning of January.

Best wishes to all in 2020!

Madeleine

[RachelSusan]

 @Madeleine

Hi Madeline,

 

Thanks for stopping by my page.  I decided I would visit you, read your thread, and then respond here.  I hated to read that your were force fed drugs in the hospital after doing so well.  Anyway you are doing great now and that is what matters.

 

When I read the part where you got mixed up with your pills I had to chuckle.  Not because it is funny but because I can so relate. In fact I bet a number of us here on this site can relate.

 

I am going very slowly, now it's about 6 to 7% every four weeks.  I look forward to the day when I can get off of it but I have learned that for me there is no way to speed things up.

 

Anyway, thanks again for stopping by. It means a lot to hear from a fellow Zoloft victim.  We will soon be Zoloft Victors though.

 

 

[thelegend]

@Madeleine - looks like we had the same unfortunate drug mix. How long did it take you to get stable after you reinstated? Sounds like you had a bad reaction to the high dose, but settled pretty quickly? I am 8 months into reinstatement and still just struggling, though I made some mistakes along the way by trying other drugs in an attempt to “fix” the problem. Anyway, just noticed our similarities, and congrats on getting off the Zyprexa and so low on the Zoloft. That is exactly where I wish I was, but I just can’t get stable enough to taper!

[stela]

Hello Madelein, congratulation to your successful taper. May I ask you, how did you cut you Zyprexa to tiny doses?

[Madeleine]

On 1/12/2020 at 1:56 PM, stela said:

Hello Madelein, congratulation to your successful taper. May I ask you, how did you cut you Zyprexa to tiny doses?

Hi Stela:
When I got to lower doses, I was taking 2.5 mg pills and I cut that pill into quarters using a razor blade.  So, I took the whole pill, then took 3 quarters, then 2 quarters, then 1 quarter.  Then, towards the end I took slivers of the quarter, then stopped.  It was not exact.  The quarters were not always exactly the same size, but it was close enough. It worked for me.   

[Madeleine]

On 1/6/2020 at 10:14 PM, thelegend said:

@Madeleine - looks like we had the same unfortunate drug mix. How long did it take you to get stable after you reinstated? Sounds like you had a bad reaction to the high dose, but settled pretty quickly? I am 8 months into reinstatement and still just struggling, though I made some mistakes along the way by trying other drugs in an attempt to “fix” the problem. Anyway, just noticed our similarities, and congrats on getting off the Zyprexa and so low on the Zoloft. That is exactly where I wish I was, but I just can’t get stable enough to taper!

Hi Legend:

Hmm.  It's hard to answer, as what happened is that I got off totally, and then some months later, I had a lot of problems in my life that I couldn't solve and started feeling depressed and panicky and anxious ( I was probably having some delayed withdrawal at the time too) and I panicked, and this led to even more anxiety.  Then I panicked even more and went to the hospital, where they put me on huge doses again very quickly.  

It took me a while to settle down from that -- let's say 6 months? But, in the meantime, this time I found a very good therapist, and started doing cognitive behaviour therapy with him... that helped me a great deal. I think what the problem was with me was that when I had a problem I became anxious and then I was anxious about my anxiety and then it was a spiral where I got more and more anxious because I did not have a way to work through my problems, a way to think them through and find solutions.  When I learned new ways to approach various challenges, I was able to manage my anxiety more, and it helped me get out of the depression.

So, yes, I think I settled from the high dose fairly quickly, and I started going to therapy, then slowly started cutting and tapering down...

Hope that helps! 

[Madeleine]

On 1/6/2020 at 8:07 PM, RachelSusan said:

 @Madeleine

Hi Madeline,

 

Thanks for stopping by my page.  I decided I would visit you, read your thread, and then respond here.  I hated to read that your were force fed drugs in the hospital after doing so well.  Anyway you are doing great now and that is what matters.

 

When I read the part where you got mixed up with your pills I had to chuckle.  Not because it is funny but because I can so relate. In fact I bet a number of us here on this site can relate.

 

I am going very slowly, now it's about 6 to 7% every four weeks.  I look forward to the day when I can get off of it but I have learned that for me there is no way to speed things up.

 

Anyway, thanks again for stopping by. It means a lot to hear from a fellow Zoloft victim.  We will soon be Zoloft Victors though.

 

 

Thanks Rachel -- yes we are both near the finish line!
Best wishes,
Madeleine

[stela]

8 hours ago, Madeleine said:

Hi Stela:
When I got to lower doses, I was taking 2.5 mg pills and I cut that pill into quarters using a razor blade.  So, I took the whole pill, then took 3 quarters, then 2 quarters, then 1 quarter.  Then, towards the end I took slivers of the quarter, then stopped.  It was not exact.  The quarters were not always exactly the same size, but it was close enough. It worked for me.   

HI Madelein, we do not have 2.5 mg Zyprexa in the market, is it possible to cut 5 mg one?

 

[stela]

On 1/14/2020 at 2:20 AM, Madeleine said:

Hi Stela:
When I got to lower doses, I was taking 2.5 mg pills and I cut that pill into quarters using a razor blade.  So, I took the whole pill, then took 3 quarters, then 2 quarters, then 1 quarter.  Then, towards the end I took slivers of the quarter, then stopped.  It was not exact.  The quarters were not always exactly the same size, but it was close enough. It worked for me.   

Thanks Madelein for the answer. We do not have 2.5 mg Zyprexa in the market, so not sure what to do.

[Madeleine]

On 1/16/2020 at 8:46 AM, stela said:

Thanks Madelein for the answer. We do not have 2.5 mg Zyprexa in the market, so not sure what to do.

[Madeleine]

Hi Everyone:  I haven't signed in for a long time. I'm doing well. Now on 2.5 mg Zoloft. Yes, if you look at my signature, I've been a bit faster than recommended recently.  I've been tapering monthly, using the water titration method. I've got Zoloft capsules with powder inside.  I take the powder, dissolve it in 25 mg of water and take out what I need with a syringe and inject the required amount.  I keep the same liquid for a few days, then prepare another batch. 

So far I'm feeling fine with no noticeable withdrawal symptoms, and (touch wood) have not felt any noticeable ones for quite a while.  So far, I've been tapering monthly. I started the taper in June 2017, as you can see from my signature.   And, as I've said, I'm now on 2.5 mg... so far so good.   

Just wanted to give a bit of encouragement to anyone who reads this who is just starting on their journey.   It seems daunting when you start,  as it seems like so much time is required, and it's true, it does take a long time... but, just take it step by step, the days pass, the weeks and years pass, and if you taper slowly, it's very possible that you can just get on with your life, and will not even notice the withdrawal too much.  Before you know it, the years of tapering have gone by, you have avoided the painful withdrawal many go through -- and you are down to a small fraction of the dose you were on initially... 

I have a bit of time to taper still, as I will have to slow down now given that I am on a smallish dose, but I'm glad with all the progress made thus far.

Best wishes to all!

[Altostrata]

Thanks, Madeleine. Good to hear you're doing well.

[Che13]

Thanks for posting this Madeleine - it's very encouraging and I applaud your effort. I am pondering about starting my own taper again of 50mg Zoloft. Can I ask you what was your inner compass, so to speak, that sustained your effort in difficult times?  For example, how did you push away thoughts, in difficult withdraw moments, that we are medically advised to be on these drugs for life? Can I ask you whether you have any fear that you may relapse after getting off the drug completely? And would you reinstate in such scenario? And how are you feeling now without the drug? Thanks, and best wishes. 

[Madeleine]

On 4/22/2021 at 5:54 PM, Che13 said:

Thanks for posting this Madeleine - it's very encouraging and I applaud your effort. I am pondering about starting my own taper again of 50mg Zoloft. Can I ask you what was your inner compass, so to speak, that sustained your effort in difficult times?  For example, how did you push away thoughts, in difficult withdraw moments, that we are medically advised to be on these drugs for life? Can I ask you whether you have any fear that you may relapse after getting off the drug completely? And would you reinstate in such scenario? And how are you feeling now without the drug? Thanks, and best wishes. 

How did I push away the thoughts? I tapered very slowly, so I had very few side effects so that helped, but I also went to a  cognitive behavioural therapist, had  help from this forum, as my belief in God sustained me. Those three helped me. However, I'm having a little blip so have come back here to get advice again. 

Best wishes!
M

[Madeleine]

Hello Everyone:  
I'm back and need help, support and advice.  I haven't been here for quite a while, and got off the last bit of Zoloft at the beginning of Oct. 2020.  

I was doing fine, but was reading too much news about the pandemic and other things in the world, and that was not good for my mental health. Two weeks ago, I had the Astra Zeneca vaccine,  as that was the only one available at the time for my age group where I live, and I started being hyper watching out for signs of the blood clots that are a rare occurrence.

As a result my anxiety ramped up. I had a session with a therapist, whom I had not seen for about a year.  He had helped me a great deal, but it was expensive, going and as I seemed to be coping  well, I stopped going.  His session  was very helpful, and I am going to book more.

However, last night, I did not sleep at all, other than maybe half hour -- and this sent me into a hyper state of anxiety.   (The reason I need up on all the drugs was my anxiety.  ) My fear is that I will end up in the hospital again drugged up, again. 

I do not want to go back on drugs and this is my first blip, but as people know, sleep is so important, and not sleeping can be triggering for people.    

I'm looking for support and advice.  Any helpful tips, thoughts, words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

Best wishes to all

M.

[Che13]

Thanks for your message Madeleine. It seems (from your signature) that you were reducing between 5-10% per month, if I am correct, though not strictly. Sorry to hear about your anxiety and the sleep issue In stressful and uncertain times like these it is understandable. Do you think this is a relapse or protracted withdraw effects? I have found Wim Hof's (very simple) breathing techniques (see his videos) very helpful for sleep, and cold water therapy (swimming in sea, lakes etc or even cold showers) extremely helpful for anxiety. 

[Madeleine]

Hello: I'm wondering if a moderator can weigh in?  

I had been off everything for about 7-8 months. Zolof was the last that I tapered. However, I panicked after the Astra Zeneca vaccine, and have had what I think is a relapse of anxiety/insomnia.  I've tried everything to calm myself using natural methods -- I had a lot of CBT, did mindfulness meditation, yoga, etc. but my nervous system has gone into overdrive. 

I have called my doctor (a new one as mine retired) and she gave me some Ativan, as one would expect, just a week's worth, and I haven't taken any.  I'm feeling so bad I am considering reinstating. 

However, for me, Zoloft was extremely activating. I had very few side effects on it, and my withdrawal went very very smoothly -- but it's as if I'm in a full-blown withdrawal/relapse (or maybe combination of both.

Help!  what to do?  Without sleep I spiral into depression. Any thoughts? Advice?  If I have to reinstate I will do so, because I want to be stable, but I am very wary of the activating effects now that over half a year has passed since my last dose.