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MirtHurt: Too fast Mirtazapine taper, when might I stabilise after reinstating?


MirtHurt

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Mirt -- benzodiazepine medications are only one form of psychiatric medications that affect the CNS (central nervous system).  There are others such as antidepressants, a group that includes mirtazapine.  Have you browsed the From Journals and scientific sources forum? There are many articles from peer-reviewed publications that discuss the withdrawal effects from more than just benzos.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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I'm not currently suicidal btw, so don't worry about posting any crisis line numbers or whatever. But if this episode of WD closes down my one last chance to get back to my job, a job I LOVED and which is the only thing I am good at (and I'm damned good even if I say so myself), I will go to an awful place. I just have no idea what to say to people, like tomorrow. They're gonna ask me how I am. What the hell do I say? That's rhetorical, there's no answer. I'm exhausted by this.

 

 

Just some thoughts, MirtHurt, to add the concept of "perspective". 

 

I've never had a job that I loved, especially one as you describe here, but I do understand job loss and the uncertainty and fear that comes with it. I do understand that it comes with a profound sense of "identity" and to lose that, is to lose oneself. 

 

That sounds like what you described. And it's heartbreaking. 

 

But as I found out myself, life has a way of unfolding in unexpected directions. When I lost a job that had a good salary back in 2013 due to these drugs, a few months later, I found myself in an entirely different job, one in a small non-profit with very kind people, a much less stressful position, and a place to not only earn enough money to survive as I recover, but also, a new sense of self due to the type of non-profit social justice work that I'm surrounded by. 

 

As it turns out, that job with the much better salary that I had prior to this came with an additional cost of not having much "purpose". At this point, I need purpose, too, especially after this withdrawal experience. It's part of an unfolding and continuing narrative. 

 

So while it's good to keep one foot in the door to your career, please don't lose yourself in that being all that is out there for you. Your health is so very precious and important. That is one of the things that many of us really learn during this process. 

 

Please reflect on why you went on psychiatric drugs in the first place, as that happened before you lost your job. Sometimes it's easy to romanticize our lives prior to these drugs, especially when we are faced with our current options and have yet to see past that and be able to think about our future and what it could be once we heal from this nightmare. 

 

Again, I want to emphasis that there is absolutely no pressure for you to taper anything. The drug interaction profile is concerning, so it's good to get an education in what these drugs are and how they act and interact.  And then you can make an informed decision for what is right for you. 

 

I hope all goes well with your meeting, but more importantly, I hope you are feeling better. 

 

 

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Thanks, Shep. I've thought very long and hard about these issues, and spent a lot of time unemployed and *not* suffering WD symptoms...and the conclusion I reached is that this is definitely the only job for me. Without that job, I can't *be* well. It was like losing a limb. I would honestly rather have LOST a limb, then lose it. I need to be able to fight my way back into it. It wasn't just a job it was my identity.

I've had a long, long time to reflect on this. Getting that job back is critical to my long term mental health. That's the reality of it. I'm afraid no amount of reflection or attempts at getting fresh perspective on this situation will change that. That's what I have to work with and I might as well be up front about that...

 

I cancelled my meeting today, well, postponed it until next week.

 

I'm keeping a diary and will post it next week.

 

As for reflecting on why I went on these drugs, I'll state again: ALL of the drugs I was put on were as a result of SEVERE benzo WD. Misdiagnosed by doctors.

 

I was originally prescribed Diazepam for insomnia, because I was working some very early shifts, starting at 5am and couldn't get my sleep pattern altered.

Other than that, my life was GREAT.

 

I really appreciate everyone's feedback but I do feel that I must nail this now: I am not romanticising my life prior to these drugs. There was nothing wrong with it, quite the opposite: I was an extremely content person, happy with basically everything in my life.

 

I can't and won't be persuaded otherwise about the importance of my job to me. I've done all of that self analysis ad infinitum. And I really cannot stress enough, so I'll spell it out again: there was virtually *nothing* wrong with me before I was prescribed Valium (aside from a little trouble sleeping), and every other drug was prescribed in reaction to benzo WD. That's the truth.

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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I was originally prescribed Diazepam for insomnia, because I was working some very early shifts, starting at 5am and couldn't get my sleep pattern altered.

Other than that, my life was GREAT.

 

I really appreciate everyone's feedback but I do feel that I must nail this now: I am not romanticising my life prior to these drugs. There was nothing wrong with it, quite the opposite: I was an extremely content person, happy with basically everything in my life.

 

 

 

Thanks for this information, Mirt. It's helpful in order to get you the right information. 

 

If you do go back to your previous position, will you go back to having lots of early shifts and varying sleep routines? 

 

As you probably know by now, benzos generally only work well for sleep for a few weeks. After that, they can turn paradoxical and cause other problems. And the sedating ADs and antipsychotics also come with problems with long-term use. So even though you are doing well with sleep right now,  it's important to learn as much about sleep as possible - there are many non-drug things you can do for sleep during withdrawal. 

 

Here are some links to get your started:

 

Tips to sleep - so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

 

And you can find more here:

 

Important topics about symptoms

 

 

 

I can't and won't be persuaded otherwise about the importance of my job to me. I've done all of that self analysis ad infinitum. And I really cannot stress enough, so I'll spell it out again: there was virtually *nothing* wrong with me before I was prescribed Valium (aside from a little trouble sleeping), and every other drug was prescribed in reaction to benzo WD. That's the truth. 

 

 

 

Many people here found themselves in your position - they went to a doctor for a minor problem and walked away with a medical nightmare. 

 

I'm glad you delayed your meeting until you had time to sort through this. 

 

All we can do is provide you the information of how these drugs work, as best we can in layman's terms, and to give you some non-drug coping techniques. 

 

If you push yourself too fast and too far, for whatever reason, your nervous system may not be able to handle it. Although you went in with only a minor problem, from the symptoms you are describing, you are in a completely different circumstance now. So please do look through the non-drug coping links and try see if there are ways you can nurture your nervous system and build it up to handle what you are attempting to do. 

 

I'm hoping some of your symptoms are coming from the paradoxical reaction of having too many sedating drugs dampening down your nervous system and by changing the timing and / or the dose, you may get some relief and you can get back to living your life. 

 

 

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Thanks Shep :)

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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Re shifts, yes, they would vary, that's pretty much unavoidable. Fortunately, touch wood, I haven't had big problems with insomnia these days. I get a decent period of rest each night.

This is how I ended up on the other drugs, step by step:

Went into severe benzo WD after starting far too fast benzo taper. Mirt 15mg prescribed. Helped me sleep. But 'mood' continued to get worse (due to crazy fast benzo taper). Every time mood reported worsening to doc, Mirt increased, first to 30, then 45...Mirt then no longer helped with sleep. So amnitrip 10mg added. It worked for a while then stopped, so raised to 25mg. It's been a long time since the amnitrip helped me sleep but of course I've just kept taking it as worried about stopping.

The Quetiapine was also prescribed for 'anxiety' - which was actually benzo WD. I got into the habit of taking it early in the morning when I first woke up, to give me another hour or two sleep when I was in bad benzo WD and it was waking me early. Again, just continued taking at that time after benzo WD had stopped, as too worried about possible consequences of stopping.

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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Thank you, Mirt. This is helpful.

 

If you're taking quetiapine in the morning, that may be making your daytime dizziness worse. 

 

And since you're taking it to extend your sleep, you are suffering from insomnia, at least the form of insomnia that causes early waking. So please be mindful of this and I would encourage you not to push yourself back into a position of having to deal with erratic sleep cycles. As many benzo survivors (myself included) will tell you, the insomnia from benzo withdrawal is brutal. And there are no drugs that we know of that can "fix" that problem. It's a sign of a destabilized nervous system. Many people try adding on drug after drug or using supplements, but eventually, the nervous system may give out. 

 

I'm going to list the "tapering off" links for mirtazapine, quetiapine, and amitriptyline. Please note - I am not saying you should or shouldn't taper these drugs. But the treads contain a lot of useful information about how the drugs work, such as their half-lives. 

 

The half-life is good to know, as the drugs you take at night are still in your system when you add on other drugs, such as an early-morning quetiapine dose. 

 

 

Tips for tapering off Seroquel (quetiapine)

 

 

Tips for tapering off amitriptyline

 

 

Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

 

In your case, I have a feeling that a "less is more" mindset may help. 

 

Thanks again for providing more information. 

 

 

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'And since you're taking it to extend your sleep, you are suffering from insomnia, at least the form of insomnia that causes early waking.'

 

That's how I started taking it, for sure, but I've continued to take it at that time even tho 'early waking' stopped...because I felt I just had to keep taking it. After my benzo WD stopped and I was utterly without any symptoms, I spent an awful amount of time in bed (so crushed by job loss)...so kept taking the Q just to extend the escape of sleep. And since this other WD kicked in, continued taking as described.

Put it like this, I would definitely still get enough sleep if I didn't take the Q in the morning. That wasn't the case in benzo WD, when I definitely was getting early waking...

Might it help then to take the Q at night instead?

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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I know that ideally I slowly taper off all these drugs, but as even tapering one of them while I'm in this 'bounce' after the aborted Mirt taper isn't do able, just wondered if moving Q to take at night before sleep might help.

I take the Mirt and amitrip just before bed too. I take the Diaz (which is a maintenance dose, it's been a long, long time since I felt anything from it) first thing in morning.

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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Another symptom I'm getting is 'pit of my stomach' anxiety...it's strange, it kinda flicks on mid morning, and stays for most of the day, but tends to recede in the evening. It's not 'early waking' anxiety, I know all about that. But it is 'chemical' - it's not a response to concerning thiughts. It's not there when I first wake up. But Once this anxiety has hit, if I try to take a nap in say the afternoon, I'll drift off and then BAM, be woken by a surge of it. Maybe it's also connected to taking the Q in the (earlier) morning? I defer to your expertise in this matter! :) I don't have any of this when I try to sleep at night, I drift off without any real hassle. I know I am lucky with this and most people struggle to sleep at night. It's the one break I've been granted...

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Please don't make any changes yet.  Let's get a symptom profile listed like this:

 

Keep notes on paper about your drug dosages and daily symptom pattern

 

Please post in this manner for a few days and we can see where you are. As you can tell from our previous back-and-forth type communication, there's a lot of room for error and miscommunication. The format I just linked will help prevent this. 

 

Thanks for clarifying your sleep pattern. It's clear you are dealing with random cortisol surges, which is most common early in the morning but can hit anytime. This thread may help explain this phenomenon:

 

Waking with panic or anxiety - managing cortisol spikes

 

In one of the posts in that thread, Altostrata mentions using a sleep mask if you are waking early. I found that to be extremely helpful, as I wasn't aware that even the small amount of light that was coming in was affecting me so much. So there may be some tips you can find. The more of these tips you can find, the less likely you will be to need a drug or supplement to help. In the long run, this information is worth it's weight in gold. 

 

I'm glad you are able to fall asleep easily. I read somewhere that that's a sign of a clear conscious.  ;)

 

I'm getting better at that myself. 

 

 

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Do you mean post a list of drugs and symptoms each day?

Sorry I thought I was to do it over a while then post them all.

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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You can do it either way. Just as long as you're keeping an accurate account offline and then can list it online for the mods to review. 

 

One more comment before I sign off:

 

That fact that you are sleeping better now is a sign of stabilization. I think you would benefit from a long hold. I hope other symptoms also improve. 

 

 

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Thanks Shep.

Just to clarify, my night time sleep was fine as soon as i stopped the benzo taper (August last year). And it's remained OK since the WD hit after the short but aggressive Mirt taper, aside from that anxiety in the mid morning (when I should really be up but when you're unemployed and a bit down it's easy to try and just sleep the day away...I could have done that pre Mirt taper but not now. But I still get a decent night's sleep.)

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Thanks for the clarification, MirtHurt.  I'm glad you get a decent night's sleep.

 

Hopefully after you track your daily symptoms for a few days, you'll have a better idea of how to proceed. I am hesitant to recommend any changes right now, as I don't want to recommend anything that will disrupt your sleep. 

 

Please keep updating. 

 

 

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Will do. I'll keep the diary over the weekend, maybe post on Monday.

Dizziness / head pressure hugely down on last night. Anxiety still there, but ebbs and flows. Very bearable at the time of typing.

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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Thanks. I feel virtually without any symptoms at all now! Oh that this could be bottled...;)

Speak soon

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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Went out for a coffee this morning with someone I'd postponed earlier...I was SO close to cancelling again as that old pit of stomach anxiety thing came on, as it does like clockwork...but i squared my shoulders and went through with it and the symptoms actually faded into the background a good bit. Actually enjoyed it. Pleased with myself and feeling OK :)

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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(DECAF coffee, I should stress!)

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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  • Moderator Emeritus

This is good news, Mirt.  :)

 

Just a FYI that you may want to switch to decaffeinated coffee, if you haven't already. Caffeine can stress the nervous system and many people find it ramps up symptoms during withdrawal. Just a small thing to do to help your nervous system heal so you can get back into life again. 

 

I'm really glad to hear you are doing better now. 

 

Please keep updating. 

 

Edit - sorry, I didn't see your last post when I wrote this. Good for you for adding that. 

 

 

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I made the mistake of drinking three cups of (ordinary) tea in one sitting just after this WD started...symptoms SKY ROCKETED. Won't make that mistake again!

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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In my diary, should I be recording what I eat and drink?

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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  • Moderator Emeritus

MirtH, you can log your food and beverage consumption in your personal/paper log.  Only post it here in your intro thread if you notice a pattern, e.g. heart racing 30 minutes after consuming food "x."

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to comment

Ok, thanks.

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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Another question if I may: are 'diet' sodas problematic? Or can they be for some people anyway. I know they're laced with all sorts of chemicals...

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

Link to comment

Actually is there an area for diet questions / issues? Or should I just post here?

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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  • Moderator Emeritus

No sensible person, other than someone who works for or has investments in a soft drink producer, would suggest that drinking soda or diet soda are good for you.  If you decide to log food & bevvies, see if you notice symptoms after you drink diet soda. Another way to see if it's having a negative effect on you is to reduce the amount you drink over a month or two. You could 'cold turkey' but why risk setting off symptoms?

 

There are food and diet topics in the symptoms and self care forum.  The best way to find them is to do a google search for the keyword and to add site:survivingantidepressants.org as a search term.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to comment

I don't drink a huge amount of it, I used to, but it occurred to me that it's likely not to be an amazing combo with WD.

I'll stick to water tonight at the cinema, with my nachos. Don't tell me nachos are out, I couldn't face that ;)

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

Link to comment

Thanks btw ;)

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I don't drink a huge amount of it, I used to, but it occurred to me that it's likely not to be an amazing combo with WD.

I'll stick to water tonight at the cinema, with my nachos. Don't tell me nachos are out, I couldn't face that ;)

 

I wouldn't dream of it -- Our policy is one drug at a time. :D

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to comment

OK, here is my diary from the last 5 days. They haven't been much fun :(

 

Wednesday 29th March

 

0700 Woke (not 'early waking', need to use bathroom) - 4mg Diazepam (NB it has been well over a year since I felt anything from taking Diazepam)

 

0845 Woke again 0845 - 50mg Quetiapene, slept more

 

0945 Woke again, 25mg Quetiapine, slept another hour

 

1045 got up / some 'pit of stomach anxiety', persisted much of day

 

1300 Ibersartan 150mg

 

Throughout main symptoms were head pressure, dizziness, flushed face.

 

2330 Amitriptyline 25mg, Mirtazapine 45mg

 

0100 Went to bed

 

0130 Asleep

 

Thursday 30th March

 

0700 Woke (bathroom again, not 'early waking'), 4mg Diazepam.

 

0845 Woke again, Quetiapine 50mg, slept again

 

0945 - Quetiapine 25mg, slept again

 

1030 - woke, anxiety, sharp 'pit of stomach' feeling, tinnitus - postponed work related meeting as a result

 

1330 Ibresartan 150mg

 

Spent afternoon in bed, trying to sleep, kept nodding off the being woken by surges of anxiety

 

Evening - anxiety started to lessen,

 

2200 Dizziness / boatiness

 

2300 Anxiety all gone by now - 25mg Amitripyline / 45mg Mirtazapine

 

 

2330 asleep

 

Friday 31st March

 

0745 Woke (not 'early waking') 50mg Quietapine / 4mg Diazepam slept again

 

0855 woke, 25mg Quietapine, slept again

 

1000 Woke, got up, only slight anxiety, went out for coffee with friend, anxiety faded to almost none

 

1200 Ibersartan 150mg

 

1500 lunch - slight increase in anxiety after

 

1700 some head pressure, was able to collect daughter from nursery (hardly ever well enough to do this)

 

2100 no symptoms, went out to cinema

 

2325 Amnitrip 25 Mirtazapine 45mg, virtually no symptoms, just a little tinnitus

 

Saturday 1st April

 

0830 woke with strong anxiety in pit of stomach, tinnitus / 4mg Diazepam, 50mg Quietiapine, slept

 

0930 woke 25mg Quietapine, slept until 1030, spent much of rest of day in bed due to anxiety, also head pressure dizziness

 

1630 anxiety lessened, some tinnitus, head pressure and dizziness mostly gone

 

1900 first meal of day

 

1940 head pressure lessened

 

2200 essentially symptomless

 

2300 mild tinnitus, 25mg Amnitrip, 45mg Mirtazapine. Noted that dizziness not much of a problem today

 

Sunday 2nd April

 

0845 woke, 4mg Diazepam, 50mg Quetiapine slept again

 

0945 woke, 25mg Quet, slept again

 

1100 woke with strong anxiety, pit of stomach. again spent most of day in bed.

 

1400 anxiety continues

 

1500 anxiety slightly less

 

1545 head pressure, cold sore developing

 

1800 first meal of day

 

2000 head pressure

 

2210 amitrip 25mg mirtazapine 45mg

 

0100 sleep (some tinnitus)

 

Monday 3rd April

 

0745 woke (bathroom) 50mg Quietiapine, 4mg Diazepam, slept again

 

0845 woke, 25 mg Quetiapine, slept again

 

1230 lay in bed until this time, trying to sleep escape away from anxiety, pit of stomach feeling

 

1355 lunch, slight decrease in anxiety

 

1540 back in bed, tinnitus, slept fitfully

 

1800 woke, extremely depressed. had long crying spell feeling utterly hopeless about everything. told my wife i couldn't go on like this. Just weeks and weeks of being ill without relief had built up. Expressed desire not to live any more. She phoned shrink ('phone any time you feel things are getting too much'). Answering machine. Don't worry about posting any crisis lines etc, I have them all. they're useless.

 

2040 Dinner

 

 

And that's it for the minute. It doesn't take a genius to realise that the way I am living my life, much of it in bed with erratic meals, is not going to make anyone feel good. But I am just so beaten down by this horrific and avoidable WD. I am under so much stress because I had things set up to start working towards going back to work, and all that has been trashed. I won't get another go like this.

And above all else I am desperately depressed about not being able to do small things like go to the park with my daughter. It tears my heart to pieces. I am a truly useless father and husband - yes I know it's the pills, but nonetheless, it is a hateful existence. I had my life back from last summer until this ****ing stupid taper, and now it's all been swept away again.

 

If any of you guys have any suggestions as to how I can help myself to recover, I would really appreciate it.

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

Link to comment

The most distressing and debilitating symptom is definitely the anxiety. The slightest thing makes my stomach lurch. I would give anything just to be done with that. It's not because I am worrying about anything (although of course I have plenty to worry about), it comes on like a switch has been thrown in the morning. Not when I first wake, notably. But my mid morning it's on. 

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

Link to comment

Just one thing - I can't even begin to think about tapering anything at the minute. I want stability back. Then we'll see. 

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

Mirt, the timing of your doses raises these questions for me:

  1. What's the thinking behind having the second Seroquel dose 60 minutes after the first one? If you don't know or recall, that's okay and just let us know that.
     
  2. What's the thinking behind taking amitriptyline and mirtazapine together at the same time of day? Convenience?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to comment

The timing of the Quetiapine is a 'hangover' from my benzo taper, when I really did get truly awful 'early waking' and it was the only way to extend my sleep a bit. So I ended up taking 50, then another 25, and I've just kept to that pattern because I didn't want to stop or alter it...

 

Taking Mirt and Amnitrip together: I was first put on Mirt 15 to help me sleep and improve appetite in EXTREME benzo WD. But they kept asking me how my 'mood' was, and because I was on a horribly fast benzo reduction, of course it was getting worse. So they put the Mirt up to 45, when it stopped helping me to sleep, and added in amitrip. It worked for a while, then didn't. I don't think i get any sedative effect particularly from either any more - again I've just kept taking them at this time because I always did...

Diazepam started Feb 2015, dose started at 15mg per day, rose to 35mg per day until November 2015, started to taper. Tapered from 35mg to 2.5mg a day by mid August 2016. Updosed to 3mg and Stabilised, completely WD free from then on. Updosed to 4mg per day March 24th.

Sertaline April 2015, can't remember dose, sorry. Switched to Citalopram October 2015, sorry again don't know dose. It wasn't high in either case. Citalopram tapered in a month in Jan 2016.

Mirtazapine started Feb 2016 15mg, rose to 30mg March 2016, 45mg end of April 2016. Brief taper early Feb 2017: one week alternating 45 and 30, second week alternating 45 one day, 30 two, WD by half way through week two, reinstated to 45 after 11 days of taper. 45 daily since then.

iAmitriptyline started March 10mg nightly, raised to 25mg nightly by May 2016, to present.

Quetiapine started May 2016, initially 50 mg daily, rose to 75mg per day by Sept 2016, to present.

Ibersartan 150 mg per day, started 2011 (I think!)

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