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Hosanna

just signed up. information and advice is overwhelming!!!! I can only take in some information at t time. I can't believe this isn't more common knowledge. it is a horrible existence. but God is good and He heals.

 

*1991-2003: 12 years on increasing amounts of Prozac, then

 

*2003-2013: 10 years on increasing amounts of Effexor

 

alchohol abuse issues throughout along with nicotine addiction

 

*2013: pscychMD guided 5 month taper from 300MG to zero Effexor while quitting alcohol and nicotine at about the same time  ( awful process , so painful and scary)Dr had me adding prozac to reduce the "discontinuation side effects"

 

*then November 2013, not on anything...

 

------Bad bad bad ( probably and unknowingly, tapered way way way too fast and unknowingly into some Med PAWS and paws from alcohol ( 8 months without etoh at this time, 4 years now )

 

* Ran to psychMD and he put me on Latuda then Brintellix ( now called  trintellix)

 

*4 months later those about killed me and landed me 3 days in the hospital and then in intensive treatment for depression/anxiety for 5 months.  During that time they tried different things too fast and furious with a lot of bad reactions to stuff. Chemical Assaults!!!! this included seroquel, Depakote

 

Summer 2014 finishing up intensive treatment ("pills and skills" what a crock...): I ended up on a cocktail of xoloft, Wellbutrin and  elavil.

 

I didn't need more drugs. I was suffering from protracted w/d and chemical assault shock/ptsd. the medical community has no idea. they say "your mental illness is chronic and progressive so you have to manage it continually with drug additions/changes". you can't make this stuff up for a horror movie.

 

*At this time (summer of 2014) I was diagnosed with MS (significant brain lesions and positive other tests for MS) and told I had to go off Humira. I had been on Humira or Enbrel for 13 years, as well as anti inflammatories for arthritis. I stopped these.

 

One year later I started  a 4 month taper of these psych drugs. This was way too fast and probably caused more damage/ptsd

 

March 2017: Now I am 14 months total medicine free and dealing with recovery from the damage caused by the actions above. I don't know what is what in terms of cause and effect. I only know that it has been and continues to be awful. a hellish relentless anguish of a myriad of symptoms, an awful existence...after having lost my marriage, family, career possibilities, life...other than faith...I still have my faith in Jesus Christ and God's promises of who HE is, what He's like, and who I am. God Loves me and has taken and continues to  take care of me in miraculous ways... He just hasn't healed me fully yet.

 

Is it MS? Immune dysfunction? ANS dysfunction? Damage while taking medicines and self medicating with alcohol ? PAWS from alcohol? PAWS from psych drugs? Chicken, egg or road? It amazes me how after not being on meds for a while, we can suddenly get drastically worse with new or worsening symptoms.

 

25 years of pschych drug chemical assault and 2 way too abrupt tapers have left me in this state. not to mention MS.

 

Such a mess. Hell on earth. Anguish. So many symptoms.

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Madeleine

Welcome to the forum.  You really have been through a lot! You are right, God Loves you (and all of us. )

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Hosanna

thanks Madeleine

 

Welcome to the forum.  You really have been through a lot! You are right, God Loves you (and all of us. )

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LexAnger

Omg, sound horrible what you went through by the insane amount of evil drugs and stupid and ignorant medical doctors!

How are you feeling now? Do you see any improvement?

 

Thanks God you find this forum. The best online and of all for information, support from mods and peers.

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Hosanna

Omg, sound horrible what you went through by the insane amount of evil drugs and stupid and ignorant medical doctors!

How are you feeling now? Do you see any improvement?

 

Thanks God you find this forum. The best online and of all for information, support from mods and peers.

 

thanks LexAnger. 14 or so months after totally off of psych meds i was still having waves that were really bad, but i didn't know what they were. i  just figured I was relapsing, getting worse, the MS was progressing, or I was just nuts. constantly thinking i should get back on something...because I had felt some relief in the early taper process and shortly after zero meds and now I was awful. God led me to this site and some others so that I could understand better what was going on in my brain and body.  at least I know there is some hope...although the timeline of a couple more years of this before improvement is depressing and anxiety provoking... my kids are growing up and I'm missing it...

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Altostrata

Welcome, siep.
 
I'm very sorry to hear of all you've gone through.
 
Since your condition is so complex and your system probably so sensitive, I would focus on strengthening your body as much as possible so it will have fuel for healing. Have you seen this: 
 
http://terrywahls.com/about/about-terry-wahls/

Terry Wahls MD | Defeating Progressive Multiple Sclerosis....
 
It seems eating lots of fresh leafy green vegetables is good for many things. They are the best source of folate, an important neurological vitamin.

 

Were you on a stomach acid blocker for a long time? If so, you should have vitamin B12, methylmalonic acid (MMA), and homocysteine blood tests to rule out mild B12 deficiency, which can cause neurological weakness.

 

You may also wish to test vitamin D3, that's an important systemic vitamin, too.

 
We find many people do better with these supplements
 
King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker
 
Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

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RachelE

Wow, Siep! No wonder you're suffering! You could have killed yourself--really, going off these very addictive drugs when you've built up a strong physical dependence has been known to throw people's systems into shock and actually resulted in death.  :( I'm glad you're still alive and well enough to post here. Of course you had no way of knowing. Makes me sad and angry to think about.

 

I came off my lamictal and abilify with only a few headaches. Of course I only took the lamictal for 13 days. I cold-turkeyed off that when I thought it was causing a rash. A GP diagnosed the rash as being caused by a viral infection. I said I went back on it and didn't. That's sometimes necessary when you're trapped in the MI industry. 

 

2 weeks later I started dry cutting my abilify. In 10 weeks I was off it after 7 years.

 

This Effexor is a bear to come off though. I don't know why, but I feel sick all the time. Like the flu--the runny nose, sore throat kind. And I feel dry and itchy all over--inside and out. I know this sounds weird, but this is my experience. Going shopping at the grocery store wears me out more than running a full-length marathon would a healthy person. I have been tapering since early July. I'm now at less than half the original dose of 150 mgs. Sometimes I get so impatient. I have no idea why it's so much harder to get off than the other drugs. A friend of mine seemed to make light of my problems when I described them to her. She's a psychiatric survivor too. Came off Effexor with little trouble. Only on it for 2-3 months though. Good for her! It doesn't help me though. :angry:

 

Anyhow, Siep, I believe your suffering is real. If a long, slow taper causes this kind of suffering for so many of us, it's no wonder you feel like you're in Hell on  Earth. :(

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Hosanna

Welcome, siep.

 

I'm very sorry to hear of all you've gone through.

 

Since your condition is so complex and your system probably so sensitive, I would focus on strengthening your body as much as possible so it will have fuel for healing. Have you seen this: 

 

http://terrywahls.com/about/about-terry-wahls/

 

Terry Wahls MD | Defeating Progressive Multiple Sclerosis....

 

It seems eating lots of fresh leafy green vegetables is good for many things. They are the best source of folate, an important neurological vitamin.

 

Were you on a stomach acid blocker for a long time? If so, you should have vitamin B12, methylmalonic acid (MMA), and homocysteine blood tests to rule out mild B12 deficiency, which can cause neurological weakness.

 

You may also wish to test vitamin D3, that's an important systemic vitamin, too.

 

We find many people do better with these supplements

 

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

Alto, thanks so much...I have so much respect for you and your knowledge and all you do to help people. I really appreciate your feedback and the links/information. I thank God and praise Him for leading me to your site. the information here has helped me understand so much better my symptoms and cycles.

 

Great feedback! it's a long story for another time but it was my brother sending me a link to Dr. Wahls's TED talk "minding your mitochondria"

,  that eventually led me to my last taper, being med free, and your site.

 

I am on a modified, individualized "Wahl protocol" of sorts in terms of diet and nutrition..."Designed Clinical Nutrition"... under the supervision of a naturopath   which I believe has helped me a great deal over the last 2 years. thanks for your comments on good fats (omegas) and Magnesium and B viatamins/folates. I think you are very right on those.

 

It is so hard!!!  the psychiatric, cognitive, emotional,hormonal, physical exhaustion symptoms sometimes make it  so hard to just exist in my own body and mind. and when waves hit...boy is it hard. just getting/existing through "moments", minutes, hours, or a few hours seems impossibly

 hard and painful, and forget when I have to do a task or responsibility. wow. But I've learned so much in the last month. Thank You!

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Hosanna

Wow, Siep! No wonder you're suffering! You could have killed yourself--really, going off these very addictive drugs when you've built up a strong physical dependence has been known to throw people's systems into shock and actually resulted in death.  :( I'm glad you're still alive and well enough to post here. Of course you had no way of knowing. Makes me sad and angry to think about.

 

I came off my lamictal and abilify with only a few headaches. Of course I only took the lamictal for 13 days. I cold-turkeyed off that when I thought it was causing a rash. A GP diagnosed the rash as being caused by a viral infection. I said I went back on it and didn't. That's sometimes necessary when you're trapped in the MI industry. 

 

2 weeks later I started dry cutting my abilify. In 10 weeks I was off it after 7 years.

 

This Effexor is a bear to come off though. I don't know why, but I feel sick all the time. Like the flu--the runny nose, sore throat kind. And I feel dry and itchy all over--inside and out. I know this sounds weird, but this is my experience. Going shopping at the grocery store wears me out more than running a full-length marathon would a healthy person. I have been tapering since early July. I'm now at less than half the original dose of 150 mgs. Sometimes I get so impatient. I have no idea why it's so much harder to get off than the other drugs. A friend of mine seemed to make light of my problems when I described them to her. She's a psychiatric survivor too. Came off Effexor with little trouble. Only on it for 2-3 months though. Good for her! It doesn't help me though. :angry:

 

Anyhow, Siep, I believe your suffering is real. If a long, slow taper causes this kind of suffering for so many of us, it's no wonder you feel like you're in Hell on  Earth. :(

 

Thanks so much RachelE!!! wow you've been through it too. yes praise God we are both still here and have a chance for healing. Many prayers for you. 

 

I agree that effexor is evil. When I was on it and was just a few hours late with a dose I got brain zaps and cognitive issues and all sorts of stuff. Being on it mad me crave relief from Alcohol and nicotine...or anything that could put the "fire out" that was in my brain while I was on it. Knowing what I do now and what I have and continue to go through...if could go back and do it again with Effexor (Evil), I would go sooooooooo slow. like one bead a month or even one bead every couple of months. I wouldn't care how long it took.  when I tapered in 2013, even though I was adding prozac as I went down in effexor, I suffered a great deal.  but I thought "if I could just get through this and get this stuff out of my body I would be better, so the quicker the better, so tough it out"...well that was sooo wrong. I had no idea the damage I was doing by removing it from my system so quickly (I didn't think it was quickly). If I could do it again (and had the patience and focus) I would start at a point where I was relatively comfortable, then remove one bead every so often and hold it for a while. I would take as long as I needed to to taper as long as I didn't have symptoms or they were limited. I believe my taper from zoloft, elavil, wellbutrin and trazedone was too fast also and if I could do it again I would go just as slow. maybe 5 years instead of 5 months. but I had the same mentality of "I need to get the poison out of me as soon as possible". I didn't know the longlasting negative effects of removing it too quickly from my system. I mean to have new, brutal anguishing symptoms show up more than a year later...that is crazy... Recovery from this is not like any other recoveries.

 

I think of the visual imagery it talks about in that video. It talks about our brain being the plant/vine and the drug being the trellis. our brain grows and functions by being supported by the trellis and when we remove the trellis the plant withers, is sick and sometimes dies (brain cell damage). I think of effexor et al, in my case, as a Trellis with thorns and spikes and contours and intricate loops etc. ...and the plant , my brain was intricately grown and developed on it, complexly woven around and through and on it. When I removed the Trellis too fast it ripped the pant to shreds. the thorns and spikes and loops that had a hold of it just ripped it to pieces. If I could do it again I would just take sandpaper to that trellis and remove it ever so carefully, and if something started to shred( a symptom) stop and go about it whatever way possible to reduce the harm to the plant while removing the trellis.

 

This last taper I had some support which I believe has save me. I was feeding the plant the proper nutrients and removing hurtful things(spikes, thorns, loops) using a clinical nutrition and detox program while I was tapering.

 

But in my experience (in which tapering was too fast), even though I suffered a great deal through the taper process, that suffering was nothing like the symptoms once I hit zero and the protracted symptoms later on. the protracted symptoms resulting from too fast of a taper have been much worse than the symptoms during the taper.  so much so I almost bought into the notion that "my disease" is chronic and progressive and I therefore must need meds . if that wasn;t the case I would feel better now that I am off them.

 

IT is so confusing, especially when I add in the MS and arthritis symptoms. what a mess. I can relate to your symptoms and fatigue stuff...it is brutal.

 

God Bless You and keep you.

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RachelE

For Siep, and those of you reading this, I am feeling better in many ways. This happened out of the blue after I dropped below 50% of my original effexor dose. Just a little tired and sluggish now. If it weren't for these constant throat infections I keep getting I would feel great!

 

I am rediscovering stuff about who I am that I forgot or never knew since I've spent my whole adulthood on drugs till now. I used to mindlessly wolf down anything set before me. Suddenly people wonder why I'm so picky about food and why I eat so slowly.

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Hosanna

So it seems like year 2 off of these psych drugs is worse than year one. I realize that my brain/CNS/ANS and all my systems are really messed up because of 1)long term AD use (especially Effexor), 2) coming off them way, way, way, way too fast a couple of times 3) taking Humira for psoriatic arthritis caused MS 4) a 9 month chemical assault of many meds/ on and off (by psych Drs).

 

I unfortunately thought being chemical-free was the most important thing and getting them out of my body fast was best and that once they were out I would be better...but have since learned that a long slow change /taper is the best way. I had no idea. I can't undo what is done... the abrupt discontinuation (s)

 

in reading through here, it seems like re-instating at this point would probably be too late and ineffective and potentially very dangerous (these drugs scare me so much now), I mean, it could be devastating. I have not taken antidepressant (or any other chemical medicine) for 17 months now.

 

but life, currently, is an incredible challenge. how can it be worse in year 2?

 

Honestly, I could use some encouragement from those those with experience and knowledge of this process. It doesn;t seem like I am any better. where are the windows?

 

or maybe its the MS progressing? see how confusing this is?

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Hosanna

I am assuming all of these symptoms discussed can show up and/or get worse, all of the sudden, in a protracted way? years after stopping and years after the (almost) cold turkeys ? can someone confirm?

 

or are these symptoms just for  while you are tapering and shortly after.

 

It's so hard for me to tell cause and effect of things, being that I have been diagnosed with MS, Psoriatic Arthrtis, Psoriasis etc, (and of course MDD, GAD , BP2, etc.). there is a ton of overlap of symptoms. looking at MS symptoms and reading the MS support site experiences of others there is a lot of similarity between the MS experience and protracted withdraw.

 

right now I am not taking any drugs. none for MS, none for arthritis, psoriasis, psych, etc... none. I am so afraid of bad reactions to drugs for anything (even tylenol etc.). my system seems to react poorly to everything. I live as healthy as I can, building a healthy body, staying away from anything that can be harmful in food, environment, etc..

 

I am, and have been hurting in so many ways ( a lot on the list) for so long and people think I'm crazy not taking medicine for some relief of these things.

 

I don't get on here much because frankly I just cant. I'm coming up on 2 years without taking any antidepressants and having trouble finding any hope. I find it hard be ok with that just surviving another day, waiting for many more years, and being as naturally healthy as possible. I don't even think I've had any significant windows yet. just bad and worse and really really bad waves. 

 

any encouragement from you guys would be appreciated???

 

 

 

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Hosanna

any encouragement would be appreciated. this is awful. hard to keep hope.

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Madeleine

Hi Hosanna:
What are you going through exactly now? What are your symptoms? 

 

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bhasski

Hi,

You will feel better, thats for sure. How much and when? thats  for no one to say.

 

I myself a victim of CT to get myself off of these poisons. Never knew how slow a taper could be before coming to this site.

 

It got some better for me after almost 2 yrs off them... still trying different ways to get my life back, myself back. 

 

From my exp, it will get better.. try to have help of supplements or many other ways.

 

Best wishes.

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ChessieCat

I am quoting this post so that it appears as a new post in this topic because after moving it from the Dr Joseph Glenmullen Withdrawal Symptoms Checklist topic it ended up preceding a couple of more recent posts :

 

On 27/10/2017 at 3:55 AM, Hosanna said:

I am assuming all of these symptoms discussed can show up and/or get worse, all of the sudden, in a protracted way? years after stopping and years after the (almost) cold turkeys ? can someone confirm?

 

or are these symptoms just for  while you are tapering and shortly after.

 

It's so hard for me to tell cause and effect of things, being that I have been diagnosed with MS, Psoriatic Arthrtis, Psoriasis etc, (and of course MDD, GAD , BP2, etc.). there is a ton of overlap of symptoms. looking at MS symptoms and reading the MS support site experiences of others there is a lot of similarity between the MS experience and protracted withdraw.

 

right now I am not taking any drugs. none for MS, none for arthritis, psoriasis, psych, etc... none. I am so afraid of bad reactions to drugs for anything (even tylenol etc.). my system seems to react poorly to everything. I live as healthy as I can, building a healthy body, staying away from anything that can be harmful in food, environment, etc..

 

I am, and have been hurting in so many ways ( a lot on the list) for so long and people think I'm crazy not taking medicine for some relief of these things.

 

I don't get on here much because frankly I just cant. I'm coming up on 2 years without taking any antidepressants and having trouble finding any hope. I find it hard be ok with that just surviving another day, waiting for many more years, and being as naturally healthy as possible. I don't even think I've had any significant windows yet. just bad and worse and really really bad waves. 

 

any encouragement from you guys would be appreciated???

 

 

 

 

 

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Hosanna
On 10/26/2017 at 1:17 PM, Madeleine said:

Hi Hosanna:
What are you going through exactly now? What are your symptoms? 

 

Madeleine thanks. I’d say 65% of “all of the above “ 

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Hosanna
On 10/26/2017 at 1:19 PM, bhasski said:

Hi,

You will feel better, thats for sure. How much and when? thats  for no one to say.

 

I myself a victim of CT to get myself off of these poisons. Never knew how slow a taper could be before coming to this site.

 

It got some better for me after almost 2 yrs off them... still trying different ways to get my life back, myself back. 

 

From my exp, it will get better.. try to have help of supplements or many other ways.

 

Best wishes.

Thanks bhasski, needed that. 

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Hosanna

Thanks Chessie Cat. 

 

I had posted that on that thread after reading the list of symptoms and those are what i was referring to in my question. 

 

Hell on earth. Doesn’t seem possible, yet here I am and it’s really my reality. Hard to keep the hope sometimes. Hurts so much and I️ feel so useless. 

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DMV64

Hello <3

I have been leaning heavily into my faith. It is helping. I believe it will get better. For all of us.

Blessings,

D

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Ali4

Welcome to SA 

Wow you have been through a lot! I’m sorry to hear this and how hard it is, especially 2 years out. It will get better, you have fought this hard already, keep fighting, you got this, one day at a time. Ali 

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Hosanna
22 hours ago, DMV64 said:

Hello <3

I have been leaning heavily into my faith. It is helping. I believe it will get better. For all of us.

Blessings,

D

Thanks DMV i appreciate that. It’s really hard ( the faith) especially times of mental/emotional/cognitive symptoms, having a body and brain that’s an endless torture chamber with innumerous torturers / tormentors. I pray but don’t always have hope. 

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Hosanna
18 hours ago, Ali4 said:

Welcome to SA 

Wow you have been through a lot! I’m sorry to hear this and how hard it is, especially 2 years out. It will get better, you have fought this hard already, keep fighting, you got this, one day at a time. Ali 

Thanks Ali, needed that. God Bless you. 

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LexAnger

Hi  Hosanna,

 

thank  I you so much for your kindest work in Pug thread!

I just thought to check on you here see how you are doing. 

 

I so hope you are seeing some improvement being off for 2 yrs! 

I often try to seek meaning and purpose of all these suffering in Gods plan. So far I only found what I can save for others by spreading the danger of these meds and and entire crashing medical communities. 

 

You ou are in my prayer,

lex

 

 

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