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Help777

I would love to know which books you are referring to!

Thanks!

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Morgane

I would love to know which books you are referring to!

Thanks!

The two books in English are 'A Gift from Daniel' and 'Ancient Whispers' by Karen Alexander. Years ago, the books used to be free to download on a website they created but I can't find it anymore. So I have them on pdf-file. The first book you can buy because it was also published. The third book in Dutch is 'Nefratete, Priestess in Atlantis' by Joke Bouwsma.

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mysterium

For quite a while in withdrawal, neuro-emotion led me to memories where I embarrassed myself, made a fool or myself, or was rejected. I couldn't shake them, I was reliving them intensely over and over. The feeling of shame and worthlessness was awful. I had to make a determined effort, which wasn't always successful, to distract myself from these memories. I kept reminding myself to forgive myself for my mistakes. Then reliving these memories went away. I'm not having this problem anymore (I hope). I presume that some area of my brain was being stimulated by dysregulated neuro-hormones, and now it's recovered.

 

This is one of the strangest ones to analyze ~  why this happens. Thank you so much for this site, not sure if anyone is still active on here.

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Morgane

An extract from 'An Ancient Whisper' by Karen Alexander:

 

“What you call a strong, healthy ego is the result of fulfilling the list of requirements your
social mind dictates to you. When you don’t perform, it turns on you, blames you, and
depreciates you. Then, you suffer from low self-esteem, and you try even harder to do what it
tells you is essential.”
 
“But, I have things I want to do! I don’t think they all come from my social mind.”
 
Maoli spoke up. “Let me see if I can help with an example. It’s common in your culture
for people to base their self-esteem on earning a good living. When they do, they feel very good
about themselves. But what happens if through no fault of their own, they lose their jobs? All
that self-esteem vanishes in an instant. It was based on what the social mind told them was their
proof of value.”
 
“So, you’re saying that the social mind sets us up for disaster by making sure our selfesteem
is based on fulfilling things that are dependent on the world outside of ourselves.”
 
“Exactly. Your sense of self-value should be based on the knowledge that you are a
constantly cherished child of the soul. Whatever you may choose to do with your time on Earth,
your soul never changes in its love for you. You are worthy of its love simply because you exist.
You don’t have to earn its feelings about you, and nothing you can do will alter those feelings.”
 
“So, if we draw our strength and sense of being a good person from the soul, it sounds
like nothing that happens in our life can shake us. We can meet all of our challenges with the
certainty that we are fed by an everlasting love, and a bountiful source of strength and wisdom.”
 
“Right. When you already have strength, and you know in your deepest heart that you are
a beautiful creation of the divine, you can make your decisions about how to spend your time on
the Earth freely. You aren’t constantly trying to prove your worth. You can relax in the
awareness that you already have what you truly need.”

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Effeffexor

For many reasons, our emotions are on a hair-trigger, amplified, and perseverative. We probably don't even know all of what's going on physically yet, but it includes diminished prefrontal lobe executive functions, rebound amygdala, dysregulated HPA, over-active adrenals, etc.

 

The neuro-emotions include --

 

neuro-fear

neuro-anger

neuro-guilt

neuro-shame

neuro-hurt

neuro-regret

neuro-self-criticism

neuro-grudge-holding

 

...and more!

 

It is very, very confusing to have these intense neuro-emotions and try to remember that they are not what they appear to be. Emotions are compelling. Emotions during recovery from psych meds are even more compelling.

 

Sometimes, the neuro-emotion is really totally artificial. Some of my neuro-fears have been so unlikely to come to pass as to bear no resemblance to reality or to my personal history.

 

But, I think a lot of the time, part of what makes it so confusing is that there is a grain of reality to the neuro-emotion. For example, some situation might make you a bit angry under normal circumstances, but the neuro-anger is huge. This is when it's very difficult to 1) catch it in the first place and notice this is a neuro-emotion, 2) convince ourselves, yes, this is really a neuro-emotion, not a real emotion, 3) contain the emotion, try not to act on it, or channel the energy into something safe and constructive -- like exercise or journaling or building a birdhouse. :)

 

Whenever you're having an intense, disturbing feeling, try to remind yourself that, right now -- even if it does have something to do with reality -- it is largely a neuro-emotion that you wouldn't be feeling if you were fully healed. And you *will* be fully healed. It's happening! Get ready!

Very profound and helpful. Thank you SO much for this. Tell me more? Is this in a book? I need to understand this more.

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Daisy1

The shame, regret and embarrassment is the worse for me. It should be the least of my worries, but i feel like an embrassement to my family and friends. I have only told 2 of my best friends. I feel so embarrassed telling people I had a reaction to an antidepressent that has left me mentally disabled. I know if someone told this to my former self I would have probably smirked and said 'aren't they suppose to make you happy?' Oh the bloody irony. And yet people who have reactions to antibiotics, head trauma and cancer treatment get sympathy and understanding. The guilt and blame are horriemd too...why did i take them ? Why did i listen to people telling me to go to the docs when all i had was mild anxiety having just moved house. How do we get people to believe these drugs are just as bad or worse than lsd or heroin ?

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ravijaua

Neuro Emotions are a huge problem for me and probably the most dangerous thing I have to deal with in withdrawal. I'm trying to figure them out but it is tough.

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Becassine

For quite a while in withdrawal, neuro-emotion led me to memories where I embarrassed myself, made a fool or myself, or was rejected. I couldn't shake them, I was reliving them intensely over and over.

 

The feeling of shame and worthlessness was awful. I had to make a determined effort, which wasn't always successful, to distract myself from these memories. I kept reminding myself to forgive myself for my mistakes.

 

Then reliving these memories went away. I'm not having this problem anymore (I hope).

 

I presume that some area of my brain was being stimulated by dysregulated neuro-hormones, and now it's recovered.

Alto strata,

Thank you for this post, I am crying reading it as for the past few years, this is what I seem to be going through almost everyday. It is good to know that it is not truly who I am but just neuro emotions. Wish my doctor would read this forum.

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JanCarol

TripleM15 asks:

May I ask you, the Neuro emotion , do they eventually return to normal , to be expected levels???? 

 

It's like the old nugget about relationships.  When you decide you can live without one, you get one.  Only neuro-emotions are reversed.  When you accept them, and decide to float (see BrassMonkey & Claire Weekes "AAF") and realize you will survive them - they get better.

 

Normal?  Never!  I will never be normal again!  I say this with pride because I don't want to live in a world "Wrapped in Grey" (I've posted this song on the music thread).  So the goods are better, and the negative emotions - sadness, anger - are more genuine, because they are really me.  I had a moment last night where I thought about my dead ex's.  You know the song, "do you ever think of me?" and they can't because they are dead.  A tear came to my eye, and I appreciated, real, genuine grief.

 

***

I've decided that since Non-Drug Techniques are my favourite topic, I need to buff up this topic a bit with some new, novel techniques.  

 

There are Non-Drug Techniques scattered all over the forum.  I've written several of them myself, as a suggestion to an individual member's situation.  Additionally, I run across new techniques on a daily basis, but it would almost be too ambitious to post them all, so I will only post the ones I've tried.

 

I've decided to start collecting them here, as I find them - and I invite you to repost them here, as well.

 

I'm going to start with one that Shep and I were talking about in PM.  For focusing the mind, calming the nervous system, improving vision (geez, it could go over in the vision thread, too).  I wrote this, so I can repost it here.

 

If you do not have eye disease, you can use the candle version.

 

 

I went to a candle-gazing meditation yoga class.  First, we put on blindfolds, and withdrew our senses from the world, and did 4x10 minute long-hold postures [personal stuff edited] then, we did a 20 minute yoga nidra (like a body scan).  Then we sat up and did candle gazing. [personal stuff edited]

 

She called it Yoga Trataka (yogic gazing), and taught it 2 ways:

 

1.  Slowly open your eyes onto the candle flame, let go into the candle flame, and then slowly close your eyes, keeping the image of the flame in your 3rd eye, and

2.  Slowly open your eyes onto the candle flame, and let all else - the background - all else drop into darkness until all you see is that shining tiny flame.

 

I preferred the first one, but it was like a 20 minute sitting session, so she let us "play" with both.  One of my shamanism ladies was there, and was getting "inner vision work," I can't wait to talk to her some more.

 

I love the live candle, but if for some reason you cannot use this, there are trataka videos on the web:

 

If you have any eye disease, you are not recommended to use a candle, but a dot on the wall instead, as in this video:

 

(the "mantra" is meant to be silently said inside your mind.  This is one of the few mantras with a meaning, but I won't talk about that here.)

 

More to come.

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RockSie

Does anybody knows this intense feeling of doom? I had it today while being in a business meeting and now I have horrible fears going to work again. I really don't know what to do. Any ideas why this is happening?

Thank you.

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AntiDFree

I have experienced this during WD very intensely. You will move beyond it. It cannot consume you because it emerges from within your consciousness. You are the consciousness, awareness within which the feelings arise. That is a pure space that cannot be harmed- your true nature.

Mark

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Tomash

Hello,

 

I am very gratefull for this thread, as I experienced high emotions on my first attempt to withdrawal as described here. I have a question: do anybody have experience, that the withdrawal symptom emerged as a paranoia? I was first medicated 15 years back with toxic psychosis - however, I didnt have any voices, delusions or paranoia, just very strong undecisiveness and stress, and altered states of conciousness caused by MDMA. But last year, first time without meds, I wasnt well prepared and healing, and paranoia emerged as a result of stress, strong anxiety and other fear-related emotions. I am then wondering, how to prepare for such a state of mind- many symptoms I know I have, but I am loosing my pilot when it comes for paranoia.

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O2bhappy

How do you deal with constant anger.  It is not a situational anger where someone cuts me off in traffic, this is constant.  I even had a dream last night and I was anger in the dream.  Is this part of withdrawal? 

 

I have tried meditation, deep breathing, changing the channel and nothing has help.

 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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O2bhappy

ChessieCat -

 

Thank you for sharing the links.  It seems like anger is a common symptom in withdrawal.  Could I assume that the anger will get better over time? 

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Dez

I've been having suicidal feelings, not really thoughts, and was wondering if it's some other emotion and I'm confused? Like hopelessness? Is this a Neuro emotion too?

 

Been struggling with it for a few days now and it's very scary. I'd like to find ways to ease the feeling but am unsure of what to do.

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KarenB

Any emotion can become compounded by the neuro-emotion factor.  It is scary, and the neuro stuff makes it harder to deal with.  What support do you have around you?  Are there people in your life you trust enough to talk to about this?  Journaling can also be a helpful release.  

 

When I've been in those sorts of feelings, I have kept in close contact with my counselor.  I remember particularly how she helped me to find a place inside myself which was strong, and truly me, and pure and good and hopeful.  She got me to picture this self in my head - colours, shapes, the warmth of it.  I drew it, I wrote about it, and it is an image which has stayed with me.  I often think of it in tricky times, and it helps.  Because it gives a definite and positive thing to focus on - a truth which exists even when we are in the swirl of neuro-emotions and hopelessness and suicide ideation. 

 

Can you focus in and find your own such self?  It's there, it's just easy to forget about when life gets rough.  Start by thinking of a time in your life when you felt confident, strong, happy etc.  Really bring up the details, and all the feelings of that time or occasion.  Then start picturing that self inside you.  What colours do you associate with it?  What shapes or images?  

 

Well, that's one approach.  I hope it brings some relief to you.

 

However if things do escalate to a point where you are not feeling safe, please call a local hotline for help.

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O2bhappy

I have noticed over the past several months that I have been very negative.  Could this be a symptom of withdrawal?  Could it be making my anxiety worse?

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genlady

Is there such a thing as neuro thoughts?

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O2bhappy

ChessieCat -

 

Do you think changing your thought process can help with the negative thinking? 

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Dez

Karen,

 

My family and friends support me but I don't really trust the counselor I was going to or my psychiatrist. Usually when I feel suicidal I just bawl my eyes out, sometimes my mother would just hold me during it. But generally I get very little relief from it and I'm terrified. I know I don't want to die, so why do I feel this way? I'm nearly desperate, thinking I need to get back on medication because I'm messed up (and remembering that I can't because of horrible reactions, which make me feel hopeless and like I'll be this way forever).

 

I never knew neuro-emotions could be so bad or that they even existed. I could try to find myself like you suggested, but I'm not sure who I was anymore. I remember my child self but that's it. Is there anything else that can be done to ease these neuro-emotions?

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ChessieCat

ChessieCat -

 

Do you think changing your thought process can help with the negative thinking? 

 

Yes, but it can be hard work.  Negative thinking can be a habit and habits can be hard to change.  Check out this topic Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

Also: 

 

Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) for anxiety, depression

Cognitive Behavior Therapy lessons

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O2bhappy

ChessieCat -

 

I never thought of my negative thinking as a habit. I guess after complaining for 16 months about how bad I have felt would make it a habit.

 

I am going to look into the Cognitive Behavior Therapy and see if that helps.

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KarenB

Dez,

 

This might be a good place to start:  Dealing with Emotional Spirals.  I'm glad to hear you have family and friends to support you.  It's going to take time - just look at your signature and all the changes and skipping doses that your brain has been through - however, the healing will happen.  Right now you need to take one day at a time, finding small ways to ease your way through.  You might plan a short walk with a family member each morning, or enjoy a hot bath each evening.  

 

Only very recently you were still making drug changes, so don't be panicked that you are still feeling so bad.  Over time you will become more stabilised and the awful feelings & neuro-emotions will recede.  To help with stabilising be sure to take the busipirone at the same times each day, and never skip doses. 

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Snake

This thread is amazing. 

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KarenB

Yes - a little reliable information can go a long way...

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Bobo32

Hello everyone,

I would like to ask if any of you have been experiencing the same symptoms as I do during withdrawal and I would like to know whether it is a w/d symptom or rather related to something else.

I've been off meds for a few years after having taken Paxil for almost 4 years. The symptoms I'm talking about is like an extreme emotional sensitivity especially when I'm dealing with other people. It's like being emotionally fragile.

I don't know if this is what is called neuro emotion or anxiety but this feeling won't go away and it's kind of limiting it makes me feel fragile and depressed. If any of you have experienced that or found a way to deal with it, I would be happy to hear your story.

Thanks

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gigi63

Bobo, I am not sure at four years out you might be having neuro emotion. Neuro emotion is iatrogenic in nature. An exaggerated emotion and the exaggeration is caused by the withdrawal and recovery process. I am more inclined to think that at four years out, if you have been recovered from withdrawal, perhaps this is apart of your humanity and perhaps you are experiencing some of your own sensitive natural attributes. If you would describe yourself as a quite sensitive person, perhaps this is just you and you will benefit from learning yourself well and accepting your sensitivity as human and Use of other skills, i.e. Positive truth self talk and other truth based skills to assist you.

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KarenB

Interesting thought triplem.  Some people - myself included - find a lot of comfort in acknowledging themselves as Highly Sensitive People.  Yes, it's a label and it's never helpful to live by the rules of a label, but sometimes it's useful to notice traits in ourselves and learn to see how they are positive.  

 

Perhaps have a read up about HSPs, and see if any of it rings true for you.  If it does, then you can start to do two things:  Embrace the good aspects, and learn how to support yourself concerning the aspects that may be more challenging.

 

On the other hand, if it is w/d, this approach will still help you to manage it.    

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notalwaysso

Hi, 

 

I wanted to share yesterday's experience, which is a recurring experience and leaves me quite surprised, again and again. 

 

Night before I go to bed feeling a little bit anxious (after two "window" days). I wake up feeling the little bit of anxiety is there, bigger though. And through the day, it grows and grows, never mind my efforts to deal with it mindfully (accept, observe, breath, take a walk, etc.). Doom thoughts about the future, mainly. By the evening I am pretty miserable, to the point where the following thought appears in my mind:

 

"Perhaps I will have to go back to AD. I am damaged goods. I will never straighten out. "

which thought only aggravates my anxiety.

 

Then, out of the blue,  a friend pops in and we play some music for a while. and - poof ! - the anxiety totally disappears, the black thoughts are gone, I am not even thinking about what's happening inside me, a feeling of wellbeing takes over, I feel optimistic, and quite satisfied.

I go to bed pretty calm, and wake up this morning, with things looking a little better

..Until the next anxiety dip.

 

This SUDDEN turn of feeling is what puzzles me. A whole day of anxiety rising, and then, an act (in this case an act that is very involving, like playing music with someone), or sometimes, a positive thought, dissipates the black thoughts at once. 

Of course that doesn't happen all the time, and sometimes it's long days of black clouds. 

So unpredictable. On the other hand, it holds a promise: those good moments ARE in store for us..

 

Wishing everyone good moments and days

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Nena59

I have anhedonia in that way. Usually I feel better in the evening, but not always. I also have anger acting like that. I can't always get rid of either by changing the channel. It gets discouraging when you feel better for a time and then wham...back to gray clouds again.

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notalwaysso

Hi Nena,

Yes, I know what you mean. Symptoms and moods come and go as they please.

I know what you mean about "changing the channel" doesn't always help! Feels like

I have no control. 

One good thing I thought about is, that also the good moments or hours come unexpectedly

and so, I try to think of that as a source of hope. On a good day, it feels like a new learning, to be

open to the now moment.

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Kittygiggles

Sorry you're going through this after you put in the time and effort to taper over 9 months. My best guess is that perhaps your withdrawal would be so much worse if you hadn't tapered at all or tapered faster!

 

I think perspective and distraction are vital to dealing with these mood changes. Yet, I find it almost impossible to handle the constant change. Yesterday morning was amazing then as the day progressed my wave appeared. Now I am barely functioning trying to deal with the aftermath of the wave and fearing the next one. Sometimes I am angry at the windows because they feel like false friends, they always disappear. It is so tiring dealing with the change. Acceptance doesn't come so easy when you're going through your nth transition from window to wave. 

 

I wish you all the will you need to avoid going back on an AD. I suppose in one sense I am lucky - the SSRIs never actually helped me. They made me sleep 12+ hours a day with lethargy in between. Sure, it made me less able to feel my anxiety but that was only because I was barely conscious. I still have such symptoms now but they are less due to a smaller dose. It is only CBT that has helped me cope with anxiety and depression; I still use it every day. 

 

Probably the only belief that keeps me going is imagining the wave as one step towards healing the damage done by bad tapering and withdrawal. Coming here helps too as I see hundreds of people going through pretty much the same thing as I am but in various flavors, intensities, and periods.

 

Anyway, sorry for rambling. I just wanted to express my frustration at the emotional changes involved with all this - they are iatrogenic which in my opinion makes them worse and so draining to handle!

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