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Nelly
2 hours ago, eboyd said:

I agree with @Tweet. I had to deal with a year of side effects before figuring out it was the meds and now I am in a year of withdrawl as well.  However much this whole process sucks, it really has helped me grow as a person.  I am a lot more compassionate towards others and I have a better understanding of myself.  I make sure I put the time in to myself now and I refuse to compromise my health and well being for any reason...because I know better.  Accepting where you are and knowing that you won't be in that same place down the road is very comforting.  In the mean time, find healthy ways to cope with the symptom of the day.  Sending hugs your way, because sometimes that makes all the difference.

I wish there was a like button 😘

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getofflex
7 hours ago, Tweet said:

I am sorry for your suffering. one thing that helps me is remembering how I felt a year ago compared to now.

Gettofflex, I think one of the hardest things is the length of time it takes to go through paws. A person just, like you said, gets sick to death of it.

Hang in there and keep reading success stories. It is a grueling process, but you can do it.

 

Thanks so much tweet for your sympathy and support.  It really helps.  I have read some of the success stories, and will continue to do so.  Thankfully today is a better day.  It helps that I slept better last night, because I took a Xanax, which I only take on occasion.  

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jazzmugz

I don’t know if this has come up before because I’m not sure what the appropriate keywords would be, so sorry if this is old but seems like it would constitute ‘neuro-emotions’.


Do people find that the chain of events for more acute expressions of depression often seem to go in reverse order with WD vs true depression/anxiety? For example... let’s say ruminating over negative experience leads to physiological signs such as increased heart rate, sore chest/throat, eventually crying.

 

What I am experiencing is that I will start getting chest pain, despite still feeling ok and being somewhat productive. The pain intensifies over an hour or so, then shortness of breath and throat pain begins. It is only once the throat pain begins that I start ruminating and feeling intensely negative, eventually becomin immobilized and having a prolonged crying spell.

 

It is as though there are these crazy fluctuations in the CNS which mimic the physiological response to stress/anxiety, which lead one to think about distressing situations.

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Snorky

Hi 

 

Me again. Ive read the list of neuro emotions, neuro anger, neuro guilt etc. What I don’t see is neuro depression. (Constant, relentless, black and negative thoughts about everything under the sun. Aka doom cloud) Is that because this is not classed as a neuro emotion?

 

Thank you.

 

 

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getofflex
15 hours ago, jazzmugz said:

I don’t know if this has come up before because I’m not sure what the appropriate keywords would be, so sorry if this is old but seems like it would constitute ‘neuro-emotions’.


Do people find that the chain of events for more acute expressions of depression often seem to go in reverse order with WD vs true depression/anxiety? For example... let’s say ruminating over negative experience leads to physiological signs such as increased heart rate, sore chest/throat, eventually crying.

 

What I am experiencing is that I will start getting chest pain, despite still feeling ok and being somewhat productive. The pain intensifies over an hour or so, then shortness of breath and throat pain begins. It is only once the throat pain begins that I start ruminating and feeling intensely negative, eventually becomin immobilized and having a prolonged crying spell.

 

It is as though there are these crazy fluctuations in the CNS which mimic the physiological response to stress/anxiety, which lead one to think about distressing situations.

Hello Jazzmugs.  What helped me was reading the thread on changing the channel.  It is a way to take my mind off the negative thoughts, and think about something positive or neutral.  I don't always do it, but it helps when I do.  Jennifer

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Snorky
12 minutes ago, getofflex said:

Hello Jazzmugs.  What helped me was reading the thread on changing the channel.  It is a way to take my mind off the negative thoughts, and think about something positive or neutral.  I don't always do it, but it helps when I do.  Jennifer

I think I must be missing something. I’ve been changing the channel and tolerating the anxiety for six weeks. All the while, I’ve been  experiencing massive increase in horrible depression and negative symptoms.

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Happy2Heal
21 hours ago, Snorky said:

I think I must be missing something. I’ve been changing the channel and tolerating the anxiety for six weeks. All the while, I’ve been  experiencing massive increase in horrible depression and negative symptoms.

 

 

yes I think you are missing something!! the changing the channel technique is to help you COPE with the symptoms, 

these techniques do NOT get "rid" of the symptoms

 

it's like feeling the fear and doing it anyway- some say that is the definition of courage

 

during WD we need to be very courageous.
We can not stop the symptoms, we can't make them get better or not come back after a lovely window

we can ONLY find ways to pass the time while we are in a wave, to help make it a bit more bearable

 

that is all we can do. the sooner you grasp that and accept it, the sooner you can stop looking for a quick fix and start looking for ways to soothe yourself and distract yourself and just get thru it

 

in our society, we are always looking for a fast and easy way out of uncomfortable feelings and that, sadly,  is what got some of us, if not many of us, into the situation of being drugged/medicated in the first place.

 

 

so try all sorts of different techniques and see what works for you.

NO these techniques are NOT going to make the symptoms go away, they are ways for you to cope with the symptoms.

 

what helped me was to make my friends with my WD symptoms. I mean that- I realized that the symptoms were sure signs that my brain was healing from the chemical assault of the drugs.

The symptoms show that your brain is doing the work of getting back to it's pre drugged state

 

so as awful as they are, these symptoms are telling you that you are HEALING!!

quite often, the worst most debilitating symptoms are followed by a lovely wave, when you feel better than you have in a long time

 

your wave is coming, but you need to be watching for it! you need to change your focus away from the bad stuff, and believe me I know how hard that is! we ALL do!!

but if you can, look for small (and I mean small, like tiny!!) little positive changes in how you feel from day to day

I can almost promise you that they are indeed there, you just have to be open to them!

 

focus on those when you feel the gloom and doom. it won't change how you feel but it will help  you get thru it

 

we have a choice in WD recovery in how we are going to look at this huge challenge. we don't have a choice about how long it will take, but we do have a choice in how we respond to it and what attitude we adopt during the recovery period.

 

choose to look for the good! you will find it if you look

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Snorky
3 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

 

 

yes I think you are missing something!! the changing the channel technique is to help you COPE with the symptoms, 

these techniques do NOT get "rid" of the symptoms

 

it's like feeling the fear and doing it anyway- some say that is the definition of courage

 

during WD we need to be very courageous.
We can not stop the symptoms, we can't make them get better or not come back after a lovely window

we can ONLY find ways to pass the time while we are in a wave, to help make it a bit more bearable

 

that is all we can do. the sooner you grasp that and accept it, the sooner you can stop looking for a quick fix and start looking for ways to soothe yourself and distract yourself and just get thru it

 

in our society, we are always looking for a fast and easy way out of uncomfortable feelings and that, sadly,  is what got some of us, if not many of us, into the situation of being drugged/medicated in the first place.

 

 

so try all sorts of different techniques and see what works for you.

NO these techniques are NOT going to make the symptoms go away, they are ways for you to cope with the symptoms.

 

what helped me was to make my friends with my WD symptoms. I mean that- I realized that the symptoms were sure signs that my brain was healing from the chemical assault of the drugs.

The symptoms show that your brain is doing the work of getting back to it's pre drugged state

 

so as awful as they are, these symptoms are telling you that you are HEALING!!

quite often, the worst most debilitating symptoms are followed by a lovely wave, when you feel better than you have in a long time

 

your wave is coming, but you need to be watching for it! you need to change your focus away from the bad stuff, and believe me I know how hard that is! we ALL do!!

but if you can, look for small (and I mean small, like tiny!!) little positive changes in how you feel from day to day

I can almost promise you that they are indeed there, you just have to be open to them!

 

focus on those when you feel the gloom and doom. it won't change how you feel but it will help  you get thru it

 

we have a choice in WD recovery in how we are going to look at this huge challenge. we don't have a choice about how long it will take, but we do have a choice in how we respond to it and what attitude we adopt during the recovery period.

 

choose to look for the good! you will find it if you look

Hi 

 

Thank you again. I can see the point you’re making. I naively thought the approach might alleviate the symptoms marginally, but can see that not the case. I’m also v  grateful for your pm and just responded to this. I think it equates to the same thing about being positive, looking for some albeit tiny evidence of import. Despite my constant negativity, I have seen some WD symptoms ease (lots of nerve pain in early days, but these are gone). I just wish I could perceive some tiny improvement with these psychological symptoms.

 

Thank you again. 

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Happy2Heal

hi 
I highly recommend you read the book Hardwiring Happiness or even just watch a you tube video by  the author, I can't recall his name but it will come up when you search the title of the book

Probably the most life changing book I've ever read

 

 

 

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Snorky
3 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

hi 
I highly recommend you read the book Hardwiring Happiness or even just watch a you tube video by  the author, I can't recall his name but it will come up when you search the title of the book

Probably the most life changing book I've ever read

 

 

 

Thank you. 

 

Will do.

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Happy2Heal
3 hours ago, Snorky said:

I just wish I could perceive some tiny improvement with these psychological symptoms.

 

 

you will, it will come!!

just hang in there, it will get better

 

that's what recovery is like.  painfully slow sometimes but it most definitely does happen!! :)

 

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Roxane
On 3/29/2011 at 8:02 PM, Healing said:

ADMIN NOTE Also see

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Deep emotional pain and crying spells, spontaneous weeping

 

Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms

 

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

Withdrawal dialogues & encouragement

 

If you feel you cannot manage your thoughts and are actually suicidal, seek face-to-face help immediately, see For those who are feeling desperate or suicidal

 


 

For many reasons, our emotions are on a hair-trigger, amplified, and perseverative. We probably don't even know all of what's going on physically yet, but it includes diminished prefrontal lobe executive functions, rebound amygdala, dysregulated HPA, over-active adrenals, etc.

 

The neuro-emotions include --

 

neuro-fear

neuro-anger

neuro-guilt

neuro-shame

neuro-hurt

neuro-regret

neuro-self-criticism

neuro-grudge-holding

 

...and more!

 

It is very, very confusing to have these intense neuro-emotions and try to remember that they are not what they appear to be. Emotions are compelling. Emotions during recovery from psych meds are even more compelling.

 

Sometimes, the neuro-emotion is really totally artificial. Some of my neuro-fears have been so unlikely to come to pass as to bear no resemblance to reality or to my personal history.

 

But, I think a lot of the time, part of what makes it so confusing is that there is a grain of reality to the neuro-emotion. For example, some situation might make you a bit angry under normal circumstances, but the neuro-anger is huge. This is when it's very difficult to 1) catch it in the first place and notice this is a neuro-emotion, 2) convince ourselves, yes, this is really a neuro-emotion, not a real emotion, 3) contain the emotion, try not to act on it, or channel the energy into something safe and constructive -- like exercise or journaling or building a birdhouse. :)

 

Whenever you're having an intense, disturbing feeling, try to remind yourself that, right now -- even if it does have something to do with reality -- it is largely a neuro-emotion that you wouldn't be feeling if you were fully healed. And you *will* be fully healed. It's happening! Get ready!

Thank you so much for teaching me about neuro-emotions because whenever I try to withdraw from tegretol the OCD goes wild. Not like normal OCD much worse. They have theories now about OCD and epilepsy being connected. Roxane

Thank you so much for teaching me about neuro-emotions.

Roxane

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getofflex

I believe I'm experiencing neuro fear and anxiety these days.  Often when I'm trying to rest or sleep, thoughts keep popping in my head of running into toxic people I've stopped having contact with, and them taunting me or yelling at me. I'll also suddenly get a stressed feeling out of nowhere when trying to go to sleep of where I put my glasses, whether my phone is turned off, etc.  Also dealing with neuro anger and resentment of people who have treated me poorly in the past.  It's very difficult to deal with this, as it seems so real and compelling, and as if I need to take action and do something to alleviate these negative emotions.  I'm very glad I reread this post, and am reminded not to create drama, and to be patient and wait it out.  I agree that these neuro emotions have a kernel of truth in them, but they are way out of proportion, at least for me.  

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cmm1180

I am suffering very badly from this right now. The emotions are too strong and cycle very quickly paired with unwavering anxiety. I go from fear to anger to depression to mania all within 10 mins and then it cycles again. This is also paired with constant illogical, racing thoughts at the same time. Everything sets it off. Talking on the phone, looking at Facebook, reading. My mind wants to dissect and ruminate about every word or image that I come into contact with. I feel like I am going to go insane. I have to go moment by moment to get through a day until bed time and then sit there in my room and continue to think until my body let's me sleep. 

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getofflex
On 5/2/2020 at 6:58 PM, cmm1180 said:

I am suffering very badly from this right now. The emotions are too strong and cycle very quickly paired with unwavering anxiety. I go from fear to anger to depression to mania all within 10 mins and then it cycles again. This is also paired with constant illogical, racing thoughts at the same time. Everything sets it off. Talking on the phone, looking at Facebook, reading. My mind wants to dissect and ruminate about every word or image that I come into contact with. I feel like I am going to go insane. I have to go moment by moment to get through a day until bed time and then sit there in my room and continue to think until my body let's me sleep. 

cmm1180, yes, unfortunately this is normal for withdrawal from antidepressants.  I went through this very same thing.  The emotions are amplified, and there is an obsessive ruminative quality to them.  I will tell you it gets much better with time!  What meds are you tapering off of, and where are you in your taper right now?  

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cmm1180

@getofflex I was completely done with meds as of 2 years ago. I was much better. I had a toothache about 8 weeks ago and took a tiny bit of a children's tylenol and now I am worse off than the original withdrawal. I even have moments where I think I am going crazy (psychosis). That never happened before. I am not handling this well at all. I really think my blood brain barrier is damaged and my central nervous system is even more unstable. 

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Onmyway
On 3/7/2020 at 8:35 PM, getofflex said:

I believe I'm experiencing neuro fear and anxiety these days.  Often when I'm trying to rest or sleep, thoughts keep popping in my head of running into toxic people I've stopped having contact with, and them taunting me or yelling at me. I'll also suddenly get a stressed feeling out of nowhere when trying to go to sleep of where I put my glasses, whether my phone is turned off, etc.  Also dealing with neuro anger and resentment of people who have treated me poorly in the past.  It's very difficult to deal with this, as it seems so real and compelling, and as if I need to take action and do something to alleviate these negative emotions.  I'm very glad I reread this post, and am reminded not to create drama, and to be patient and wait it out.  I agree that these neuro emotions have a kernel of truth in them, but they are way out of proportion, at least for me.  

Very true of me as well. For me they usually happen in the morning. 

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Jlirry

Such a relief to see this post, as well as the post on emotional spirals. I thought something was totally off or wrong about me, or that I indeed had some mental illness. But so happy to hear

its normal to have such strong emotions.

 

for me, these neuro emotions would trigger an emotional spiral. I would react to a perceived slight, then spiral down with super negative emotions. I would ruminate and chew on the neuro emotion, which would make me even more upset, and down and down it would go. 

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akrontes

I recognise these very much. I have been off medication for three years now. I had a good few years of this, maybe two precisely, then I had a huge window about 20 months ago it started, the first few months I got quite a bit better then it declined slightly but for another 8 months I was stable, then towards the end of last summer things deteriorated, not to really severe levels though. Up until about spring this year things weren’t good but not on this terrifying neuro level, I remember thinking a few months ago that things could get bad but I couldn’t imagine getting into this “neuro-state” though. Unfortunately the last few months it has, and I am really spiralling downwards, and finding it harder to get out of. I experience similar symptoms to what I have read here, and my ocd which during the period I was better was a torment but manageable, has now gone out of control. 

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Onmyway
On 6/12/2020 at 9:36 PM, akrontes said:

I recognise these very much. I have been off medication for three years now. I had a good few years of this, maybe two precisely, then I had a huge window about 20 months ago it started, the first few months I got quite a bit better then it declined slightly but for another 8 months I was stable, then towards the end of last summer things deteriorated, not to really severe levels though. Up until about spring this year things weren’t good but not on this terrifying neuro level, I remember thinking a few months ago that things could get bad but I couldn’t imagine getting into this “neuro-state” though. Unfortunately the last few months it has, and I am really spiralling downwards, and finding it harder to get out of. I experience similar symptoms to what I have read here, and my ocd which during the period I was better was a torment but manageable, has now gone out of control. 

So sorry to hear akrontes, 

Has there been a big stressor that may have impacted your health in the last few months? Is it related to the lockdown/virus? Do you get enough social contact? Usually others help us regulate our emotions and get out of our heads and lockdowns have really stressed those coping skills. Have your exercise habits changed? 

 

Is your OCD regarding fear of virus? Do you get to talk to someone about your OCD - like a therapist? It might help to share either here or with a professional. Sometimes airing fears/habits can make us realize their unreasonablesness. 

 

I am not doubting that it is WD related and not saying it is in your head but for me at least, outside stressors can exacerbate WD symptoms to a great degree. Sort of like how a simple cold can get a smoker into a severe illness whereas for a regular person it could be just a simple cold. Our underlying WD really makes even small disturbances have severe effects. 

 

Also, once we are in a "neuro-state" as you so nicely put, we start activating feedback mechanisms that can put us into a downward spiral. Sometimes doing small things can help us get ourselves from the downward spiral - exercise, social contact etc. 

 

 

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akrontes

Thank you Onmyway.

 

The explanations you give are definitely correct. They are actually the things I have been focusing on these last few months and trying to “solve” with no success. It is only having been worn down that I am trying to accept that withdrawal is still an issue. I get some days where everything seems to calm a bit and I can try and get on with my day. At the beginning of this period I was having waves of two or three days then five or so days where I felt better , then the waves would get longer, then near the beginning of May I had a wave which lasted till about the beginning of June, then from somewhere I had a slight window for about a week, then again a wave, then on Saturday I had a relatively good day and was doing some gardening with quite a lot of physical exertion in the sun, however then woke up in the middle of the night with I think a surge of adrenaline or cortisol. Different to when I was in a bad way a few years ago, when I feel slightly better I can manage to live slightly more in the present, however I feel I have no control over when I will decline again and sometimes when I am feeling slightly better I can’t understand where it could come from, and so sometimes I am extra alert to make sure I don’t descend again but that can make me more compulsive which then eventually takes its toll, or other times go with the flow, but then often it catches me by surprise. 

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

Hope you are well 

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ShiningLight

It is so comforting to know I'm not alone. My current neuroemotion is about my job. I'm terrified that I'm going to be fired. Things are not going well. It's a toxic bullying kind of environment. I have a new boss who is condescending and behaves in an obstructive and passive aggressive way towards me. She was like this from the beginning and I think it stems from my medical and withdrawal related absences. My peers have been excluding me and going around me to get things done. It sucks but I'm grateful that I have a job and I don't want to lose it.

 

For the past few weeks, it's been the first thing I wake up thinking about, in terror even before my head is off the pillow. I'm like a deer in the headlights. I've been through periods of unemployment before and my expenses are relatively low so I think my fear is way out of proportion to any reality. But the fear is fixated. I can't seem to get rid of it. I've stayed at jobs for short periods of time and I'm concerned about my re-employability and my age in the job market.  

 

One random day the cloud lifted and I felt much better and a little more confident and not terrified of what might happen. I thought to myself, 'This isn't personal, it isn't about you. It's about a bunch of people trying to survive in a toxic environment.' The next day it was back.

 

It's very hard to act rationally when you're having those kind of emotions. For example, everything feels like a threat. And it's complicated because some things actually ARE threats.

 

The fear of being fired is kind of the perfect terror/paranoia because it can never be disproven--it's about something that is always about to happen.

 

I also really relate to the shame and embarrassment about the things that we do or ways that we react when on or coming off these terrible drugs. I have noticed that the terror isn't present when I'm engaged in a pleasurable activity. Two things can't occupy the same space at the same time.

 

I have a tendency to just "allow" myself to sit in the terror and do nothing about it. I'm trying to start addressing it directly, ie look for another job, make a plan for what I would do if I did lose my job, etc. I'm formulating those ideas but still haven't done much about it. I'm also trying to stay in the moment and not worry about something that may not even happen. Remind myself that today, I have a job.

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