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StarJ: 17 years of Citalopram and time to quit


StarJ

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I started ADs in 2000 at the age of 25 following a difficult period where I had lost a lot of money while working as a fund manager in the US. I lost my job and faced some possible legal ramifications which never eventuated. Anxiety and general panicky feelings led me to see a shrink who put me on a low dose of what is known mostly as Paxil (Aropax here in Aus where I now live) and said I would "feel better" soon.

 

I stayed on Paxil for about a year but I never felt better,  it increased my anxiety and made me very uptight and even caused me to be violent and aggressive at times which is very unlike me (I remember at least one episode of full on road rage).

 

I decided to get off the drug after 1 year CT and suffered horrible withdrawals. After a week I went back to the shrink and said I've never felt like this in my entire life, I feel like a complete basket case. I asked him if it could be withdrawals like a heroin addict who stops taking heroin,  and he said there is no evidence of withdrawal symptoms with ADs (imagine, this is in 2001 in a Western country, one week after stopping the med cold turkey and he told me it must be me and my anxiety returning!)

 

So he switched me to Zoloft. Within 24 hours I felt like my body was trying to come out of my skin,  it was the worst thing I had ever experienced. So I stopped it immediately and then he suggested I try Citalopram (Cipramil /Celexa). This drug had an instant calming affect, I still remember 3 days later walking around all smiles and totally relaxed. Within a few weeks I was back to myself completely -  if not better than I ever was,  since I always had a bit of social anxiety such as when engaging in public speaking (which I hid well) and this drug had totally eradicated that nervous feeling. I almost felt like I was a little  high (like a mellow high) but still energetic and upbeat and able to function well. I gained a lot of weight but didn't care, and I definitely had a lowered sex drive, but it didn't seem to bother me then. I was in a total bubble.

 

My GP told me that if you find something that works well for you you should stay on it long term. So I did. In fact I never saw the shrink again. I got my scripts from my GP and he never suggested I go off. Nor did I want or feel the need to.  Once in a while I would ask him if its dangerous to be on this stuff long term and he would joke and say half his patients are on the stuff and there is no evidence that long term use is dangerous. People had been on it for years longer than I had and they were fine.

 

So I was on Citalopram from 2001 until 2008. During that period I functioned well. Too well. I took on a new job in Australia where I thrived in an executive position, worked hard, made lots of money, bought an expensive house and had 2 kids (I guess my libido was low but not that low). By nature I am very driven and hard working, but I think the drug enhanced my stamina.

 

(In hindsight I realise I was quite emotionally blunted during that period. I also have no doubt that he drug was probably the reason why I was able to take on so much work and work long hours without getting burned out. It did not make me manic but gave me a lot of confidence and stamina.)

 

Then in 2008 I started to read about the dangers of long term use of SSRIs. How people were struggling to get off them. How they can lead to depression and possible brain damage. I got scared. So I decided to go off them. Life was good (perhaps too good) and I had no reason I needed to be on them anymore. The original anxiety of loosing money that led me to the drug years ago was long gone and totally irrelevant.

 

By now I had known enough about these drugs that WDs were real and that I would need to taper off them. So I cut my dose (20mg) in half and took 10mg for 2 weeks. During that time I felt fine. I also began to feel more emotion and libido was stronger. Otherwise, not much difference.

 

Then, two weeks later,  I stopped taking the drug completely. The withdrawals were horrible. After a few weeks the brain zaps stopped but I still felt out of sorts. I felt very fatigued and out of it. But I was still able to function at work.

 

I stayed in this mode for about 3 months, functioning, but still out of sorts. But I felt I was slowly getting back to myself. I was much better by the end of 3 months.

 

You'd think this would be the end of my little story. But sadly, it is not.

 

About 4 months after going off the drug I was standing in my office casually talking to some clients and suddenly I became overwhelmed by a surge of racing thoughts. They filled me with panic and anxiety to the extent I had never felt before. I went home that night and couldn't sleep. Everything was fine in my life but suddenly I felt like I had been hit by a train! The thoughts were ruminations and feelings of extreme guilt, about random things.  They  became obsessive and gave me the darkest, most anxious feelings I have ever had. Far worse that even the anxiety that I felt in 2000. Worse even than I felt when I was withdrawing. I couldn't function. I couldn't eat. I couldn't sleep.  My entire being was exhausted from fighting these horrid feelings. I never had such a level of extreme anxiety, guilt, obsessive thinking and deep inner turmoil. It was like a door had opened in my brain that had been closed my whole life and had suddenly flooded my brain and I had no way of closing the door or making it stop.

 

A few days in and things were getting worse. I went to a very highly regarded Psychiatrist, who was able to see me immediately. He said I had relapsed and would need to go back on the drug. How could this be a relapse? I never suffered from pure obsessional thoughts before! Terrifying panic and horrid overwhelming feelings of guilt and obsessional thinking. But I didn't care. I wanted it to end. I went back on the drug, but it didn't help. In fact, it made me feel worse. At once stage I felt like I wanted to admit myself into a hospital because I felt so unspeakably horrid. But I never did, and instead saw my new Psychiatrist who was very good. He introduced me to a drug called Solian, an Atypical anti psychotic which works to increase dopamine at low doses. It has no anti psychotic  benefit at a low dose but an anti anxiety / anti depressive affect.  This was helpful. A few weeks after starting this drug (in combination with my original dose of Ciprimil/ Celexa) I turned the corner. I slowly began to get better. I weaned off the anti psychotic pretty early on, but stayed on the AD. I was still working throughout most of this "relapse" and after about 18 months the obsessive thoughts had stopped completely. my Psychiatrists was of the opinion that I should stay on the drug, and I was totally for that, as the thought of what happened the last time I tried to stop was so terrifying, I couldn't even fathom returning to such a state.

 

So I stayed on the Citalopram and life went on.

 

However in 2015 things got worse again. I stated to feel depressed. Some days were better and some were worse. I never suffered from depression before. The mornings were bad. I was becoming more and more blunted, apathetic and depressed. It was a dysphoric but also agitated depression. I felt very drained and lethargic, like I had no motivation or drive anymore. I felt like my adrenal glands had been removed or that the motivational part of my brain had been cut out or switched off. I started getting more moody and irritable than I have ever been. Everyone was noticing it and it just got worse and worse over the following 18 months. As I write this I am still suffering, and it is getting worse. I am still functioning at work but I can spend a lot of time distracted and not working efficiently. I have zero anxiety or feelings at all, for that matter. Just a heavy depression.  But I fear I may not be able to function at work much longer, the way I feel. Some mornings I cannot get out of bed and show up at work only in the afternoon, (but stay late). I now own my own business and I don't book appointments or schedule meetings until later in the day unless I really have no choice. Some days I don't show up at all. I do still have windows of high functioning, but they come and go. But this has gone to far, its affecting my life and work to the point that I am getting really desperate.

 

A few weeks ago I did some online research about depression caused by long term use of SSRIs. The term is Tardive Dysphoria. I know that's what I'm suffering from. It is such an unnatural feeling and so all consuming and disabling. The suggested remedy, assuming the damage isn't permanent, is to get off SSRI's.

 

My Shrinkrecently added a new drug called Valdoxan. It worked well for about a month and then pooped out. Now he wants to change my med to Brintillex, a new type of SSRI. He swears I will feel better on it. He's a good at what he does and he's probably right. But then what? I'm 42 years old.  It will work  for a while,  possibly even for a sustained period. It might even get me to 50. But then what? I actually asked him that. He said we'll worry about it then.

 

I think my preference is to get off all meds. But I'm too terrified to try. What happened last time I tried was just too terrible. Its been 9 more years of Cipramil use since, so it will definitely be even worse now.  However I need to get out of this dysphoric state and I don't want to start any new drugs which will just make it harder to get off in the future.

 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

2000 - 2001 Paxil for work related Anxiety and then switched to Citalopram2001 - 2008 Thrived with Citalopram,2008 Unsuccessful attempt to get off Citalopram requiring short term use of Solian and Clonazapam2008 - 2017 On Citalopram but positive effect gradually disappeared<p>2016, brief stint on Valdoxan to possibly boost Citaĺipram but pooped out after a dew weeks, 2017 Attempting to quit again with slow taper

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blueskies17

Hey star, I'm new too, so I don't have any advice, but know I'm sending you good vibes!!  :wub:

30's/F/USA

Not yet started tapering

Current: 40mg generic Paxil for Generalized anxiety disorder as of October 2014.

0.25mg generic Xanax as needed (not needed for a long time)

//Failed attempt at 10mg Lexapro prior to Paxil (switched because of uncontrollable muscle twitching)

Questioning everything.

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/14410-blueskies17-should-i-even-consider-being-ssri-free/

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Thanks! ????

2000 - 2001 Paxil for work related Anxiety and then switched to Citalopram2001 - 2008 Thrived with Citalopram,2008 Unsuccessful attempt to get off Citalopram requiring short term use of Solian and Clonazapam2008 - 2017 On Citalopram but positive effect gradually disappeared<p>2016, brief stint on Valdoxan to possibly boost Citaĺipram but pooped out after a dew weeks, 2017 Attempting to quit again with slow taper

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Star, welcome to SA, sadly your story is similar to many here  :( . Thank you for filling in your signature, could you include the other drugs you tried, and the current doses for us? Are you still taking the valdoxan, and when did you start/stop it? 

You are right to be wary of switching to brintillex, they all have their own side effects and withdrawal + side effects are not fun. 

If the valdoxan was very recent your nervous system will be struggling with the change and needs to be as stable as possible when starting to taper. It might be best to wait a month or two to stabilise.  

 

We recommend tapering no more than 10% of the current dose with at least 4 weeks between drops. Many people find that they feel better as the dose lowers, and don't have to wait to be fully off the drug to feel better.Take it slow, stable simple. Read the following links carefully so you are fully informed and ready to start then go for it  :)

 

The 3 KISSS

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6632-the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable/

 

Tapering citalopram

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2023-tips-for-tapering-off-celexa-citalopram/page__pid__19887#entry19887

 

Why taper 10%

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

Any quesrions just ask.  :)

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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Thanks vey much.

 

The valdoxan was only for a month or so, last taken about 6 months ago.

 

It worked very well, in adjunct to Citalopram. But affects did not last. There is no withdrawal affects with Valdoxan so I just stopped cold turkey, with no ill affect.

2000 - 2001 Paxil for work related Anxiety and then switched to Citalopram2001 - 2008 Thrived with Citalopram,2008 Unsuccessful attempt to get off Citalopram requiring short term use of Solian and Clonazapam2008 - 2017 On Citalopram but positive effect gradually disappeared<p>2016, brief stint on Valdoxan to possibly boost Citaĺipram but pooped out after a dew weeks, 2017 Attempting to quit again with slow taper

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  • Administrator

Welcome, StarJ.

 

Do you have any questions about very gradually going off citalopram?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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About 4 months after going off the drug I was standing in my office casually talking to some clients and suddenly I became overwhelmed by a surge of racing thoughts. They filled me with panic and anxiety to the extent I had never felt before. I went home that night and couldn't sleep. Everything was fine in my life but suddenly I felt like I had been hit by a train! The thoughts were ruminations and feelings of extreme guilt, about random things.  They  became obsessive and gave me the darkest, most anxious feelings I have ever had. Far worse that even the anxiety that I felt in 2000. Worse even than I felt when I was withdrawing. I couldn't function. I couldn't eat. I couldn't sleep.  My entire being was exhausted from fighting these horrid feelings. I never had such a level of extreme anxiety, guilt, obsessive thinking and deep inner turmoil. It was like a door had opened in my brain that had been closed my whole life and had suddenly flooded my brain and I had no way of closing the door or making it stop.
 
A few days in and things were getting worse. I went to a very highly regarded Psychiatrist, who was able to see me immediately. He said I had relapsed and would need to go back on the drug. How could this be a relapse? I never suffered from pure obsessional thoughts before! Terrifying panic and horrid overwhelming feelings of guilt and obsessional thinking.

 

Welcome starJ

Wow what an incredible description of what we all have experienced its exactly as you describe so well and so graphically.

At a previous forum i also described it like a train crash going off in my head.

 

And isnt the response from the medical profession so typical and so wrong!

 

I am so glad you have found sa.

 

nz11

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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Thank you.

 

I will start my tapering tomorrow. Do I cut the pills with a pill cutter or ask the pros to do it at a compounding pharmacy? I'm on 20 mgs which has been my dose from day one. You cant get a tablet with less than 20 here (I asked my doc) and theres no liquid here either.

 

I have another question. I need to function at work. I can't afford to loose my business and I think if it came down to it I would rather tweak my meds then loose what I have spent years building up. Its a high pressure job with long hours and serious responsibility. Right now I'm treading water and just surviving. My doc knows that, and he wants to get me better with the Brintillex and other tricks he says he has up his sleeve. He's a big gun in his field and has a lot of clinical experience. He told me that the tapering process is best done with little or no outside stressors, like on a health farm. I dont have that luxury. Especially if we are talking about a slow taper.

 

He suggested tiding myself over the rough stages of withdrawal with Clonazapam or Xanax. I would then have a higher chance of functioning during this process. I took some of this stuff in 08 when I had my first horrible withdrawal. It helped a lot. Im not the type to get too addicted nor is he worried about dependance in my case.

 

From the little reading I have done on this site I know this is discouraged. But is there any room for this at all? I think its the only way I'll be able to do this in my situation. I tolerate benzos well and they are effective in small doses. I never have taken them more than a few times a week even in my roughest patch back in 08 and rarely outside of that terrible period.

2000 - 2001 Paxil for work related Anxiety and then switched to Citalopram2001 - 2008 Thrived with Citalopram,2008 Unsuccessful attempt to get off Citalopram requiring short term use of Solian and Clonazapam2008 - 2017 On Citalopram but positive effect gradually disappeared<p>2016, brief stint on Valdoxan to possibly boost Citaĺipram but pooped out after a dew weeks, 2017 Attempting to quit again with slow taper

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  • Moderator Emeritus

You can make your own liquid from citalopram (celexa) tablets . It is easy once you get thr hang of it and you can make enough for a few days. A friend made her own and kept it for 7 days so she made up a batch on the same day every week.  You will need some oral syringes, or normal syringes with the needles removed to get accurate doses. It is much much more accurate and easier than cutting tablets. If you have trouble working out the doses we have some very clever members who can make up charts, and some instructions to make your own. Take it slowly and you will be fine, rush it and you could end up rocking your nervous system. 

This really is a case when slowly wins the race. We don't racommend benzos to ease tapering, if it is slow enough you will be fine. Benzos can be addictive very quickly and also needs careful tapering, they can be a nightmare to get off.  They are sometimes used by people who are in withdrawal and they can ease the symptoms but take care and you would be able to get on with life while tapering. You need to 'sneak' the drug away so slowly that your brain adjusts between cuts. The smaller the cut the easier it is. 

 

Here is a topic with instructions to make a liquid. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2022-making-a-celexa-solution-yourself

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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I think Mamma is right. If you taper slowly most likely you will be fine, stick to cutting max 10 per cent at a time. Introducing bentos means there's a risk of s whole lot of additional problems

Dec 1, 2016. 10 mg zyprexa for 1.5 month. Started taper mid-Jan. 2017. Cut 1.25 mg every 2 weeks; smaller cuts 2.5 mg down. Stopped at .6 mg. May 7, 2017: zyprexa free. 
Zoloft: Dec1, 2016, 200 mg. Started taper: Jun12, 2017: 197.5 mg; Jun19,:195 mg; July 2:185mg; July 9,:180 mg; July16,: 175; July 23: 170; July 30: 165; Aug6: 160; Aug13: 155; Aug. 20: 150; Aug.27: 146 mg; Sept3: 145 mg; Sept10:143 mg; Sept17:140 mg....Nov5: 122 mg...Dec3:112.5 mg; Jan14, 2018: 95 mg...Jan28: 90 mg; Feb21:80 mg; Mar11: 75 mg; May2:70 mg; May15: 68 mg; May28: 65 mg; Jun9: 62 mg;Jun25: 60 mg:July22: 55 mg; Aug25: 45 mg. Aug28: 50 mg...Oct 28: 38 mg; Dec.4: 30 mg; Jan8,2019: 25mg; Feb6: 23.5 mg; Apr1:17.5mg; May1:1 mg; May 5: 18;  May 18:15mg; June 16:12.5mg; Sept 10:11 mg; Sept.16:10 mg; Oct. 1: 9mg; Nov. 27: 8mg; Dec.5: 7mg; Jan.1,2020, 6 mg; Feb1: 5 mg; May 1: 2.5 mg; Jn 1: 2 mg; Jy 1: 1.5 mg
Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pw4tjImAJ92OIVyRvZoZYjqxiKMk7wvp-ljiIi1olRo/edit#gid=0

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blueskies17

Oooh good luck tomorrow!! I have a prescription for benzodiazepines as well (0.25 mg xanax), and to be honest I almost never take them, but I agree that it is reassuring when they are there. I can conceptually see why they aren't good during withdrawal, but I don't plan on throwing mine out just yet either. Time will tell for the both of us.

 

Docs seem so casual to give benzos. But reading around here, It makes total sense to not add any brain altering drugs while playing with the dosage of another.....tapering is kind of like an experiment and adding another brain drug would ruin the scientific method, lol. But tell me that next time I have a panic attack, haha.

 

In short... I feel you on the temptation to take them!!! It would be so nice to just space out during withdrawal, but I think this is a time to really experience and learn from our feelings....even if it may suck! Maybe buy a few books reccomended around here to add to your arsenal of coping tools? I have a great one about anxiety I'm planning on keeping close at hand to remind me of all the tools I have available.

 

Ps- the concept of a health farm made me laugh, if only!!!!

30's/F/USA

Not yet started tapering

Current: 40mg generic Paxil for Generalized anxiety disorder as of October 2014.

0.25mg generic Xanax as needed (not needed for a long time)

//Failed attempt at 10mg Lexapro prior to Paxil (switched because of uncontrollable muscle twitching)

Questioning everything.

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/14410-blueskies17-should-i-even-consider-being-ssri-free/

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Thanks everyone for your support and advice.

 

Just a question:

 

Is taking a sedative such as clonazepam in strict moderation (once or twice a week if "waves" become unbearable). Is it harmful? Im not worried about addiction. Just wondering if it can be detrimental in any "chemical" way.

 

Any studies on this?

2000 - 2001 Paxil for work related Anxiety and then switched to Citalopram2001 - 2008 Thrived with Citalopram,2008 Unsuccessful attempt to get off Citalopram requiring short term use of Solian and Clonazapam2008 - 2017 On Citalopram but positive effect gradually disappeared<p>2016, brief stint on Valdoxan to possibly boost Citaĺipram but pooped out after a dew weeks, 2017 Attempting to quit again with slow taper

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  • Moderator Emeritus

It is better to try to use non drug coping techniques to deal with withdrawal symptoms rather than relying on a drug.

 

There are many existing discussions here on SA.  To search the site I use google and type in survivingantidepressants.org + topic.  Eg survivingantidepressants.org sleep

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

If you experience a particular issue and can't find it on the site, please post here in your topic and we can point you in the right direction.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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Question:

 

So many millions and millions of ppl around the world are on SSRIs even long term, including many heatlth care professionals, why are doctors so ignorant about long term wd issues? Could it be that the vast majority of people dont have them ? If its common, wouldnt they see it all the time and be familiar with it?

 

Something doesn't add up here...

2000 - 2001 Paxil for work related Anxiety and then switched to Citalopram2001 - 2008 Thrived with Citalopram,2008 Unsuccessful attempt to get off Citalopram requiring short term use of Solian and Clonazapam2008 - 2017 On Citalopram but positive effect gradually disappeared<p>2016, brief stint on Valdoxan to possibly boost Citaĺipram but pooped out after a dew weeks, 2017 Attempting to quit again with slow taper

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  • Moderator Emeritus

The medical profession get their information about what they prescribe from the pharmaceutical companies.  The pharmaceutical companies are profit-making businesses.

 

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

Gwen Olsen was a pharmaceutical representative for 15 years.  These are a couple of interviews with her:

 


Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (51 minutes)

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

And an excerpt from the book, Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (bold font is mine):

 

Page 47:

 

I recall an early encounter with a young, marketing executive in the now-
defunct Syntex Laboratories. We were at a company-wide sales meeting. Nearly
1,000 reps from around the country were in attendance. He was discussing
the dosing recommendations for an NSAID that was a counterpart to the then
number one seller for arthritis, Naprosyn (naproxen). The drug’s name was
Anaprox DS (naproxen sodium). It is currently sold over-the-counter in less than
half the prescription strength as Aleve.


Anaprox is the same chemical compound as Naprosyn. The only difference is
the sodium added to improve absorption time. Therefore, Anaprox is promoted
for acute, short-term pain. The drug has a twelve-hour half-life. That means it
takes at least twelve hours following administration for the body to eliminate fifty
percent of the drug. After that, blood levels of the drug fall below their therapeu-
tic range. A drug with a twelve-hour half-life would require a b.i.d., or twice
daily
, dosing regimen
in order to sustain blood levels and maximize therapeutic
efficacy. The Anaprox dosage recommendation, however, was t.i.d., or three
times daily
. This prompted me to ask the product manager, “Why?”


Initially, he disregarded my question and responded, “Because we can. We sell
more pills that way
.” He then moved on; however, I persisted and raised my hand
again. To his annoyance, I asked, “Doesn’t that unnecessarily increase the possi-
bility of GI [gastrointestinal] complications such as bleeding and ulceration?” His
next remark would haunt me for the remainder of my career, “Well, of course it
does,” he said chuckling, “but, luckily for those patients, we have a new H2-
blocker in the pipeline!” The crowd erupted in laughter, and I made a mental
note to ask one of my older colleagues what exactly an H2-blocker was.


During the next coffee break, I discovered H2-blockers (H2-antagonists) were
designed to treat stomach ulcerations. The company, indeed, had one in licensing
negotiations
. Whether this statement was jocular in nature or not, it revealed an
underlying attitude that was pervasive in the industry and would surface time and
again in my experience. Patients were regarded as consumers and, as such, were a
dispensable human commodity.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post

That would explain how they became available en mass...

 

But surely over the years people have tried to stop and encountered the problems we face here. Why is there so little talk about this in the medical community???

2000 - 2001 Paxil for work related Anxiety and then switched to Citalopram2001 - 2008 Thrived with Citalopram,2008 Unsuccessful attempt to get off Citalopram requiring short term use of Solian and Clonazapam2008 - 2017 On Citalopram but positive effect gradually disappeared<p>2016, brief stint on Valdoxan to possibly boost Citaĺipram but pooped out after a dew weeks, 2017 Attempting to quit again with slow taper

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

Have you listened to any of the podcasts?   Let's Talk Withdrawal

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post

I think there is also stigma that exists and silences peoples' complaints, When you are taking a drug that has to do w mental health when you say you have problems w tapering off, they argue it's not withdrawal but mental health issues. Eg anxiety and depression surfacing and then they say you need to continue. When you complain about side effects they also often say It's hypochondria etc

Dec 1, 2016. 10 mg zyprexa for 1.5 month. Started taper mid-Jan. 2017. Cut 1.25 mg every 2 weeks; smaller cuts 2.5 mg down. Stopped at .6 mg. May 7, 2017: zyprexa free. 
Zoloft: Dec1, 2016, 200 mg. Started taper: Jun12, 2017: 197.5 mg; Jun19,:195 mg; July 2:185mg; July 9,:180 mg; July16,: 175; July 23: 170; July 30: 165; Aug6: 160; Aug13: 155; Aug. 20: 150; Aug.27: 146 mg; Sept3: 145 mg; Sept10:143 mg; Sept17:140 mg....Nov5: 122 mg...Dec3:112.5 mg; Jan14, 2018: 95 mg...Jan28: 90 mg; Feb21:80 mg; Mar11: 75 mg; May2:70 mg; May15: 68 mg; May28: 65 mg; Jun9: 62 mg;Jun25: 60 mg:July22: 55 mg; Aug25: 45 mg. Aug28: 50 mg...Oct 28: 38 mg; Dec.4: 30 mg; Jan8,2019: 25mg; Feb6: 23.5 mg; Apr1:17.5mg; May1:1 mg; May 5: 18;  May 18:15mg; June 16:12.5mg; Sept 10:11 mg; Sept.16:10 mg; Oct. 1: 9mg; Nov. 27: 8mg; Dec.5: 7mg; Jan.1,2020, 6 mg; Feb1: 5 mg; May 1: 2.5 mg; Jn 1: 2 mg; Jy 1: 1.5 mg
Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pw4tjImAJ92OIVyRvZoZYjqxiKMk7wvp-ljiIi1olRo/edit#gid=0

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

Anatomy of an epidemic by Robert Whittaker is an excellent book and a real eye opener. It will answer a lot of your questions about the over prescribing of psychiatric drugs. 

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

Link to post
  • 3 weeks later...

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen,

 

Just a funny thing that happened last week.

 

I went to see my shrink and I was discussing moving forward and he still wants to put me on Brintellix. I argued that these drugs are basically proven only to work for a while before pooping out, and I'm 42 years old and I don't want to spend the rest of my life being poly-drugged and experimented on and having him play Russian roulette with my brain. I said there's a good chance if I taper slowly I'll be ok and probably even a lot better.

 

He said nothing and wrote down something on his page of notes right at the top of a new page. Later, when when I was leaving I saw his notes on his desk and glanced at them from the corner of my eye. I saw that had written the words "RX AWARE".

 

I also told him Im afraid of falling into the protracted withdrawal state some people experience on this forum. I asked him if he has any ideas to treat someone who struggles after getting off ADs. To which he responded that electric shock therapy could be helpful in resetting the brain.

 

I think he was being serious, btw.

 

God help us...

2000 - 2001 Paxil for work related Anxiety and then switched to Citalopram2001 - 2008 Thrived with Citalopram,2008 Unsuccessful attempt to get off Citalopram requiring short term use of Solian and Clonazapam2008 - 2017 On Citalopram but positive effect gradually disappeared<p>2016, brief stint on Valdoxan to possibly boost Citaĺipram but pooped out after a dew weeks, 2017 Attempting to quit again with slow taper

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

It is funny but also very not funny.  You need to write on your own notes:  SHRINK BEWARE!

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post

Seriously though, is there merit to what he said about ECT? If someone is suffering with unbearable symtoms of protracted withdrawal would ECT bring relief? Not fun, but better than suffering for many years. Has this been practiced or proven?

2000 - 2001 Paxil for work related Anxiety and then switched to Citalopram2001 - 2008 Thrived with Citalopram,2008 Unsuccessful attempt to get off Citalopram requiring short term use of Solian and Clonazapam2008 - 2017 On Citalopram but positive effect gradually disappeared<p>2016, brief stint on Valdoxan to possibly boost Citaĺipram but pooped out after a dew weeks, 2017 Attempting to quit again with slow taper

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

We have no members that I can remember who have had ECT. I had it many years ago,  2 courses  of 10 and one of 2 because I refused after the second. 

 

It actually did seem to help at the time, but I was out of it for a while. Gradually the symptoms came back threefold, hence the next lot because "you did well after the last set"   This was for "severe treatment reistent agitative depression"  commonly known here as withdrawal with akathisia and suicidality. 

 

The relief was very short lived and left me with permanent memory problems.  I think you are great for questioning the shrink, and would say that you know much more than he does! 

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

Link to post

17mg for two weeks so far and feel the same as usual. Will go down to 13.5 and then to 10 over the next 2 months.

 

Ive been down to 10 quite a few times without tapering and no ill effect. So not worried about this part.

 

Will get liquid after that and go real slow....

2000 - 2001 Paxil for work related Anxiety and then switched to Citalopram2001 - 2008 Thrived with Citalopram,2008 Unsuccessful attempt to get off Citalopram requiring short term use of Solian and Clonazapam2008 - 2017 On Citalopram but positive effect gradually disappeared<p>2016, brief stint on Valdoxan to possibly boost Citaĺipram but pooped out after a dew weeks, 2017 Attempting to quit again with slow taper

Link to post
TikkiTikki

Hi StarJ,

 

I have had very similar experiences when trying to get off citalopram. Twice i've "succussfully" tapered over 2-4 months (thinking that was slow enough) only to crash about 4 months after stopping.

 

I thought it was relapse. And I thought that because the taper itself went ok - minimal side effects, some head swooshes and increased irritability and general sensitivity - I though I had done it slowly enough. After reading all the info on this site, I am now planning a 2-year taper (or longer) so I can give my brain the chance to adjust to the changes. 

 

I think I'm going to have to set a fairly rigid plan of reductions and stick to it, because going by how I feel as many people do on SA won't necessarily help me avoid the big crash afterwards.

 

And it seems to be that the final stretches need to be even slower.

 

Good luck with your taper. I've been on Citalopram for 11 years.

 

TikkiTikki

Celexa (Citalopram)    40mg  - 60mg - 40mg for 7 years          Tapered (over 3 months) drug-free Aug–Nov 2013 CRASH

40mg    Dec 2013 – Jan 2017 (7 weeks reinstatement hell then relief)

2017:    20mg    30 Jan       18mg   19 April          16mg   6 May          14mg   20 May      12mg  10 Jun

              10mg   7 July          9mg    7 Aug               8mg     16 Oct          7.5mg  27 Nov         

2018:    7mg      8 Jan          6.5mg  12 Feb          6mg  17 Mar            5.2mg  14 Apr      5mg  28 Apr

             4.8mg  4 Jun           4.6mg   23 Jun         4.4mg   24 Jul          4.2mg 13 Aug      4mg  20 Aug

             3.8mg  1 Sep           3.6mg  28 Sep          3.4mg  14 Oct          3.2mg  11 Nov     3mg  5 Dec

             5mg    26 Dec          10mg  28 Dec

Added Valdoxan 25mg   12 Dec 2018      stopped 24 Jan 2019

Wellbutrin 150mg     25 Jan

 

 

Link to post

Star J

I have just read your thread and it is so similar to mine. I run a bussiness in Sydney , work full time and have to children . It's unfortunate we had to find out the dangers of these drugs the hard way. You have been on this drug a long time and have to realize there's no shortcut comeing off these, even when you think your doing okay it can catch up on you and then bang, it's not worth it. Please go slow and listen to your body. If you need any help just message me, it's important to have someone that understand you.

-1995 started paxil 20mg for depression, over the years slowly increasing to 50mg up until 2014 

-2014 I decided to tapper myself not knowing how to

and crashed and doctor added 50mg of Seraquel 

I then tried again to stop taking both and ended up in hospital trying all different drugs, I soon realised after searching the internet that I was going through withdrawal, I then reinstated 40mg paxil and 50mg Seraquel 

-2015 tried tapering again too quickly and CRASHED

2/11/16  -43mg Seraquel   -40mg Paxil           

17/1/17   -43mg                   -New Paxil Brand                   

14/03/17  -43mg                   -39.5mg 

23/05/17  -43mg                   -39mg 

08/07/17  -43mg                   -38.5mg

01/09/17 -37.5mg               -37.5mg 

12/10/17  -37.5mg             - 37mg

28/10/17 -37.5mg               -36mg
19/01/18- 37.5mg               -35mg
2/05/18 -  37.5mg               -34.8mg
15/05/18 37.5mg                -34.5mg
24/05/18  37.5mg              -34mg
12/07/18 37.5mg               -33.mg
3/08/18 37.5mg                  -32.5mg  
28/08/18  37.5mg.              -31mg
16/12/18 37.5mg                -30mg
10/3/19  36.25mg              -30mg
17/3/19  35mg                   -30mg
26/3/19  33.75mg              -30mg
4/04/19 32.5mg                -30mg
21/04/19  30mg                -30mg
16/07/19  28.75 mg         -30mg
5/08/19   27.5mg             -30mg    
19/08/19 25mg                -30mg
20/10/19  25mg              -29mg
17/11/19 25mg              -28mg
7/01/20    25mg               -27mg
12/02/20   25mg             -26mg
7/03/20   25mg             -25mg
11/04/20   25mg           -24mg
4/05/20   -25mg         -23mg
5/06/20    -25mg          -22mg
23/06/20  -25mg         -21mg
15/07/20  25mg         -20mg 
04/08/20 23mg           -20mg
18/08/20 22.5mg        -20mg
 12/12/20  18.25mg.      -20mg
10/01/21  15mg.          -20mg
Link to post

Thanks.

 

Hope it goes well for everyone

2000 - 2001 Paxil for work related Anxiety and then switched to Citalopram2001 - 2008 Thrived with Citalopram,2008 Unsuccessful attempt to get off Citalopram requiring short term use of Solian and Clonazapam2008 - 2017 On Citalopram but positive effect gradually disappeared<p>2016, brief stint on Valdoxan to possibly boost Citaĺipram but pooped out after a dew weeks, 2017 Attempting to quit again with slow taper

Link to post
  • 4 weeks later...
TikkiTikki

 I'm on 20 mgs which has been my dose from day one. You cant get a tablet with less than 20 here (I asked my doc) and theres no liquid here either.

 

 

Hi StarJ,

 

How's your taper going? Also noticed your above comment - I'm in Melbourne and you can get 10mg Citalopram. I've got 10mg Celapram by Alphapharm (bought it at Chemist Warehouse). You should be able to get a script for 10 + 10 (I've got 20 + 10mg). And you can make your own liquid (see in Tapering), it's easy enough and then you can make small cuts. Good luck.

Celexa (Citalopram)    40mg  - 60mg - 40mg for 7 years          Tapered (over 3 months) drug-free Aug–Nov 2013 CRASH

40mg    Dec 2013 – Jan 2017 (7 weeks reinstatement hell then relief)

2017:    20mg    30 Jan       18mg   19 April          16mg   6 May          14mg   20 May      12mg  10 Jun

              10mg   7 July          9mg    7 Aug               8mg     16 Oct          7.5mg  27 Nov         

2018:    7mg      8 Jan          6.5mg  12 Feb          6mg  17 Mar            5.2mg  14 Apr      5mg  28 Apr

             4.8mg  4 Jun           4.6mg   23 Jun         4.4mg   24 Jul          4.2mg 13 Aug      4mg  20 Aug

             3.8mg  1 Sep           3.6mg  28 Sep          3.4mg  14 Oct          3.2mg  11 Nov     3mg  5 Dec

             5mg    26 Dec          10mg  28 Dec

Added Valdoxan 25mg   12 Dec 2018      stopped 24 Jan 2019

Wellbutrin 150mg     25 Jan

 

 

Link to post

StarJ -- I've been tapering off Citalopram/Celexa for three years now. I'm currently at .54 mL, so very low, yet I still suffer withdrawal. When I stick to dropping no more than 10% of my last dose, I can get by. I recently went off my 10% per month regimen (made a 16% drop) and felt very debilitating side effects. I probably have about a year left; when I stop or "jump" will depend on when I feel that I can. (I'm in charge of this endeavor, not the drug.) I use the liquid version of Celexa drawn through syringes. The liquid is a must; you're going to need to take very accurate doses.

 

Withdrawal can be done, but to do it you must do it slowly. Take the long view.

 

Myndfull

 

I had tried and failed to stop Paxil several times (though never using a long, slow taper) and thought Celexa might be easier, so I shifted to Celexa in 2012. In August of 2014 I began a serious tapered withdrawal from Celexa (20 mg.), making monthly drops, mostly 10% of the last dose, sometimes more, sometimes less.  In July of 2016 I took an early retirement at 59 in large part because of my intense withdrawal  symptoms.

 

Three years and eight months after beginning my taper, I stopped taking Celexa on 5/12/18.

 

I am currently in recovery and I am very slowly getting better. I still have waves and some are quite bad. But overall the trend is toward healing.

Link to post
On 2017-06-05 at 10:25 PM, KarenB said:

...

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

"A lot of people, including healthcare practitioners; in fact, I guess, most people-- are operating from entirely the wrong paradigm, or way of thinking, about these meds. They're thinking of them like aspirin--as something that has an effect when it's in your system, and then when it gets out of your system the effect goes away.

 

That's not what happens with medications that alter neurotransmitter function, we are learning. What happens when you change the chemistry of the brain is, the brain adjusts its chemistry and structure to try to return to homeostasis, or biochemical and functional balance. It tries to restabilize the chemistry. For example: SSRI antidepressants work as "serotonin reuptake inhibitors." That is, they cause serotonin to remain in the space between neurons, rather than being taken back up into the cells to be re-used, like it would be in a normal healthy nondrugged brain. So the brain, which wants to re-establish normal signaling and function, adapts to the higher level of serotonin between neurons (in the "synapse", the space between neurons where signals get passed along).

...

What you are saying makes sense but is any of this actually proven?

Edited by scallywag
trim quoted text; moved from another member's intro topic

2000 - 2001 Paxil for work related Anxiety and then switched to Citalopram2001 - 2008 Thrived with Citalopram,2008 Unsuccessful attempt to get off Citalopram requiring short term use of Solian and Clonazapam2008 - 2017 On Citalopram but positive effect gradually disappeared<p>2016, brief stint on Valdoxan to possibly boost Citaĺipram but pooped out after a dew weeks, 2017 Attempting to quit again with slow taper

Link to post

If there is a scientific article or link to a study proving this can you kindly post it. Thanks

2000 - 2001 Paxil for work related Anxiety and then switched to Citalopram2001 - 2008 Thrived with Citalopram,2008 Unsuccessful attempt to get off Citalopram requiring short term use of Solian and Clonazapam2008 - 2017 On Citalopram but positive effect gradually disappeared<p>2016, brief stint on Valdoxan to possibly boost Citaĺipram but pooped out after a dew weeks, 2017 Attempting to quit again with slow taper

Link to post

Can posts only be edited or also deleted and if so, how?

Edited by scallywag
moved from another topic

2000 - 2001 Paxil for work related Anxiety and then switched to Citalopram2001 - 2008 Thrived with Citalopram,2008 Unsuccessful attempt to get off Citalopram requiring short term use of Solian and Clonazapam2008 - 2017 On Citalopram but positive effect gradually disappeared<p>2016, brief stint on Valdoxan to possibly boost Citaĺipram but pooped out after a dew weeks, 2017 Attempting to quit again with slow taper

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus
9 hours ago, StarJ said:
19 hours ago, KarenB said:

...

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

"A lot of people, including healthcare practitioners; in fact, I guess, most people-- are operating from entirely the wrong paradigm, or way of thinking, about these meds. They're thinking of them like aspirin--as something that has an effect when it's in your system, and then when it gets out of your system the effect goes away.

 

That's not what happens with medications that alter neurotransmitter function, we are learning. What happens when you change the chemistry of the brain is, the brain adjusts its chemistry and structure to try to return to homeostasis, or biochemical and functional balance. It tries to restabilize the chemistry. For example: SSRI antidepressants work as "serotonin reuptake inhibitors." That is, they cause serotonin to remain in the space between neurons, rather than being taken back up into the cells to be re-used, like it would be in a normal healthy nondrugged brain. So the brain, which wants to re-establish normal signaling and function, adapts to the higher level of serotonin between neurons (in the "synapse", the space between neurons where signals get passed along).

 

...

What you are saying makes sense but is any of this actually proven?

StarJ, I'm answering your question here in your intro thread rather than in spacecadet's topic.

There is very little proven with respect to psychiatric medications.  The neurotransmitter hypothesis was weak sauce to start with. Pharma manufacturers do most of the research into these medications -- they have the money to do them and, sadly strong disincentives to find anything wrong with their products.

If you're up for a thought-provoking and possibly enraging read, please get your hands on a copy of Anatomy of an Epidemic, by Robert Whitaker.

Please read:  What is withdrawal syndrome. Also, have a look at the Journals Forum for many research studies about withdrawal syndrome.

I will move your posts from spacecadet's topic to your intro once the software update is complete.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus
On 2017-06-06 at 9:14 AM, StarJ said:

Can posts only be edited or also deleted and if so, how?

 

Members can edit posts within 60 minutes of having submitted the post.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to post

Thank you.

 

And thank you everyone for their support. Myndfull and tikitiki i wish you guys well.

 

Im on 13.5 mgs for a few weeks already now and will remain until the end of the month. 

 

Im fine, a little bit of morning anxiety which I didn't have before but its only mild and lasts a few minutes after waking. I notice this a bit after a dose cut and tben it settles.

 

But here's the good news. The depression I was feeling has all but gone away since lowering the dose. I have not had that debilitating dysphoria ( that horrible overwhelming  feeling that makes you not be able to get out of bed) that I described in my intro.

 

I'm at work earlier and have not missed a day in 6 weeks.

 

I have no doubt that it was indeed tardive dysphoria caused by the med. Lowering the dose or stopping the med are both reported as being helpful. So I guess they know something...

 

2000 - 2001 Paxil for work related Anxiety and then switched to Citalopram2001 - 2008 Thrived with Citalopram,2008 Unsuccessful attempt to get off Citalopram requiring short term use of Solian and Clonazapam2008 - 2017 On Citalopram but positive effect gradually disappeared<p>2016, brief stint on Valdoxan to possibly boost Citaĺipram but pooped out after a dew weeks, 2017 Attempting to quit again with slow taper

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