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Hazel

Hazel: struggling with Paxil to Prozac bridge

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DaveB
1 hour ago, Hazel said:

Thanks so much Dave for your support.  It is so helpful to be able to share with people who really understand this process.  I also would give anything for this to be over, and hold on to the hope that it won’t be too much longer now until I stabilize for good.  I don’t even care at this point if I stay at a small dose of Paxil for years-I just want to enjoy life again!  

How are you doing today?

 

Exactly, I would LOVE to get off the Zyprexa and reduce my Paxil load, but if I ever stabilize, I am not sure I will ever come completely off again after this nightmare! I had NO IDEA something like this was even possible or I honestly would have just stayed on the Zoloft. I am doing ok today, seems I am back into the pattern of rapid cycling. Really good for a couple of hours, really bad anxiety for a few hours, then good again, then bad. It is SO tiring, and like you I thought I had turned a corner last week, but I guess not. 

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Hazel

I wish I would have found this site before switching off of Zoloft to another drug, but unfortunately we can’t go back in time.  I do believe we will stabilize.  It seems that most everyone does in time.  I am feeling better now than I was last night into this morning.  This morning was just awful!  Thankfully the worst seems to have passed.  It is crazy how fast things can shift.  It would be easier if we just knew when a wave would end-it would make things much easier.  Every wave feels like it will never end.  We just need to hang in there.  I do believe one day this will all be far behind us.

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ChessieCat
1 hour ago, Hazel said:

Every wave feels like it will never end.

 

Yes, and we feel like the windows will last forever, so it is disappointing when another wave hits.  I love the Rubik's cube analogy.  Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

From What is Happening in Your Brain:

 

"Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are [...] to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made. 
And just like the Twin Towers- it's possible - but the building is a major effort -and it takes a good year or more sometimes."

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Hazel
34 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Yes, and we feel like the windows will last forever, so it is disappointing when another wave hits.  I love the Rubik's cube analogy.  Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

From What is Happening in Your Brain:

 

"Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are [...] to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made. 
And just like the Twin Towers- it's possible - but the building is a major effort -and it takes a good year or more sometimes."

Thank you Chessie for that post.  It is a very helpful way of looking at things and helps make sense of this horrible situation.  I just have to keep reminding myself that a lot of healing is going on during waves.

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DaveB
1 hour ago, Hazel said:

I wish I would have found this site before switching off of Zoloft to another drug, but unfortunately we can’t go back in time.  I do believe we will stabilize.  It seems that most everyone does in time.  I am feeling better now than I was last night into this morning.  This morning was just awful!  Thankfully the worst seems to have passed.  It is crazy how fast things can shift.  It would be easier if we just knew when a wave would end-it would make things much easier.  Every wave feels like it will never end.  We just need to hang in there.  I do believe one day this will all be far behind us.

 

I know, today has been just like that for me. Anxiety so bad I don't know how I can possibly go on, then totally gone for a few hours, then it comes back. 

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DaveB
55 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Yes, and we feel like the windows will last forever, so it is disappointing when another wave hits.  I love the Rubik's cube analogy.  Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

From What is Happening in Your Brain:

 

"Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are [...] to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made. 
And just like the Twin Towers- it's possible - but the building is a major effort -and it takes a good year or more sometimes."

 

Exactly, in every window, no matter how brief, I always think "this is it, this is stabilizing, it is finally working"...then it doesn't last. That analogy is very helpful, sometimes I wonder if they are rebuilding the building or slowly tearing it down, seems like many times I can't tell if it is slowly getting better, or slowly getting worse. 

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Downbutnotout

At least you know you’re on the right track. . 

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ChessieCat

You might find this topic helpful.  We need to accept that it is was it is at this time and try not to fight against it.

 

Acceptance

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DaveB
21 minutes ago, Downbutnotout said:

At least you know you’re on the right track. . 

 

Can't speak for Hazel, but I feel I don't know anything. I am hopeful I am on the right track, but this process makes you doubt everything. 

14 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

You might find this topic helpful.  We need to accept that it is was it is at this time and try not to fight against it.

 

Acceptance

 

I know I need to work on acceptance. It is what it is for now, and I am at least semi-functional. I have to have hope it will get better though or I don't know if I could keep going on!

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Hazel

I agree with you Dave.  I would like to believe I’m on the right track, but in a wave I certainly don’t believe it.  I definitely doubt everything when I’m a wave.  It feels so hopeless and scary no matter how many waves I experience and overcome, each one is just as difficult and awful as the last.  You’d think I’d get use to the process after a while, but that’s so not the case.

I think acceptance is a continuous practice.  I know the way to do it, but it isn’t always so easy to follow through with.  If I am having super high anxiety, no matter how many time I remind myself to “loosen and accept” it just doesn’t seem to help.  I find I can better practice acceptance when the anxiety isn’t too out of control, and then it helps to keep the anxiety from getting out of control.  

I hold on to hope as well. It’s what keeps me going.

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DaveB
14 hours ago, Hazel said:

I agree with you Dave.  I would like to believe I’m on the right track, but in a wave I certainly don’t believe it.  I definitely doubt everything when I’m a wave.  It feels so hopeless and scary no matter how many waves I experience and overcome, each one is just as difficult and awful as the last.  You’d think I’d get use to the process after a while, but that’s so not the case.

I think acceptance is a continuous practice.  I know the way to do it, but it isn’t always so easy to follow through with.  If I am having super high anxiety, no matter how many time I remind myself to “loosen and accept” it just doesn’t seem to help.  I find I can better practice acceptance when the anxiety isn’t too out of control, and then it helps to keep the anxiety from getting out of control.  

I hold on to hope as well. It’s what keeps me going.

 

I could have written this post myself, it seems we are very much experiencing the same things. I hate that you have to go through this, but it does give me comfort I am not alone. We are going to be ok, we will get through this together! At least you are on a low dose so when you stabilize you can either just stay there or finalize you taper. With me being on 40mgs AND the Zyprexa,  I am kind of in a bad place med-wise. Oh well, as you said, we can't go back, we can only move forward and look towards better days ahead. 

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Hazel
2 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

I could have written this post myself, it seems we are very much experiencing the same things. I hate that you have to go through this, but it does give me comfort I am not alone. We are going to be ok, we will get through this together! At least you are on a low dose so when you stabilize you can either just stay there or finalize you taper. With me being on 40mgs AND the Zyprexa,  I am kind of in a bad place med-wise. Oh well, as you said, we can't go back, we can only move forward and look towards better days ahead. 

You are definitely not alone.  Any time you need to vent or ask questions feel free.  We will get through this!

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Hazel

The last few days have been difficult.  I haven’t been sleeping well at all this week either, so that is not helping.  I was wondering if going up a little on the Paxil would help?  I just don’t really feel like I am getting any better overall and was thinking maybe going up to 10mg gradually would help me manage withdrawal symptoms better?  I am having a hard time managing to work, take care of my kids and live my life in general.  I just want to stabilize and feel better-whatever it takes.  I would really appreciate any feedback.

Thanks,

Hazel

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ChessieCat

What non drug techniques are you using?

 

During the tapering process there are going to be times of discomfort.  It is important to learn and use Non-drug techniques to cope instead of turning to what you think is a quick fix.

 

How much reading have you done around this site?  I think you are still in the mindset that the drugs are an answer.

 

And thinking of going from 7.3mg to 10mg is a huge jump in dose because you have been at 7.3mg for 2 months (according to your signature).  It's a good idea to learn to accept that things are what they are at this time.  Sometimes it's a case of doing what you need to do and getting through a day at a time, sometimes hour by hour and sometimes minute by minute.  Acceptance

 

Even people who aren't tapering off or in withdrawal from psychiatric drugs experience times when things are more difficult or when they don't sleep well.

 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia


Sleep Hypnosis, Guided Meditations, Calming Videos

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Cheeky

Hey Hazel, 

I completely understand your feeling, it’s so hard having to work and look after kids and you need to do what’s best for you. I would see what the mods think but personally I would go up a little bit to see if that helps. You need to function.

huggs to you 

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Hazel

Thank you Cheeky.  I am really struggling today.  I am just in tears over how this has affected my life.  I am trying to believe that this will pass soon, but overall, I have not been doing very well for a while.  I hope one of the mods gets back to me soon.

Hugs to you too.

Hazel

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Hazel
1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

What non drug techniques are you using?

 

During the tapering process there are going to be times of discomfort.  It is important to learn and use Non-drug techniques to cope instead of turning to what you think is a quick fix.

 

How much reading have you done around this site?  I think you are still in the mindset that the drugs are an answer.

 

And thinking of going from 7.3mg to 10mg is a huge jump in dose because you have been at 7.3mg for 2 months (according to your signature).  It's a good idea to learn to accept that things are what they are at this time.  Sometimes it's a case of doing what you need to do and getting through a day at a time, sometimes hour by hour and sometimes minute by minute.  Acceptance

 

Even people who aren't tapering off or in withdrawal from psychiatric drugs experience times when things are more difficult or when they don't sleep well.

 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia


Sleep Hypnosis, Guided Meditations, Calming Videos

Thanks for your response Chessie.

I have done quite a bit of reading on his site and have found it to be quite helpful.  I don’t want to depend on medication to feel better, but I am having a really hard time getting through the days lately.  I do try to accept, but obviously I struggle with this.  I take magnesium and omega 3’s.  I drink chamomile tea and take epsolm salt baths once or twice a week.  I use deep breathing techniques, incorporate relaxing essential oils.  I exercise 30 minutes most days at a easy pace.  I gave up alcohol and caffeine and have cut back on sugar.  I will look over the guided meditations and calming videos you provided.  I’m trying very hard to stay positive, but this has been going on for so long now and I just feel like I am reaching my breaking point.  I appreciate your feedback very much.

Hazel

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ChessieCat

Have you ever learned any CBT techniques?  I've done an online course which available here in Australia for residents and I have what I learned very helpful.

 

Also, being a female means taking into consideration hormonal changes.  Do you keep a diary of symptoms?  Do they follow any pattern?

 

These drugs can cause the problems which they are meant to "fix".  It may be that you are due for a reduction.  Some members have found this to be the case.  You could try a very small reduction, eg between 1% and 2.5% and see how you go.

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases


Rhi's "Start Small, Listen to Your Body" Taper Plan

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Hazel

Thanks for the feedback Chessie.  I did get my period this week and notice my symptoms get worse during this time.  I will continue to hold and if not better in a couple of weeks may try a tiny decrease.  I just worry about not being able  to stabilize on Paxil since it was Zoloft that I was on for so many years.  Do you think I will be able to stabilize on the Paxil?  It has been over a year now since I have been on it.  I really appreciate your input.

Hazel

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ChessieCat

Nobody knows what is going on in your brain.  The only way you can have some idea is by keeping daily notes and rating your symptoms.

 

It would make sense to hold a bit longer.  When you do reduce it might still be better to reduce by less than 10%.  Have you seen the Brass Monkey Slide?

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Cheeky
2 hours ago, Hazel said:

Thank you Cheeky.  I am really struggling today.  I am just in tears over how this has affected my life.  I am trying to believe that this will pass soon, but overall, I have not been doing very well for a while.  I hope one of the mods gets back to me soon.

Hugs to you too.

Hazel

Aww Hazel, I so understand how your feeling and I know how hard it is.

What we have to go through no one would ever understand the torment, it really changes you as a person. You have to remember that your just haveing a  bad day and I know you will eventually stable out. 

I wake up every morning now hopeing

to be that confident women again. I would do anything to have never taken this poison , but it’s too late . Whatever happens is meant to be for some reason. We need to do this for our kids and we will survive. Stay strong hun and ride the wave out. Message me anytime ((((((( hugs))))))

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Hazel

Thank you so much Cheeky!  Today is getting better-I am just exhausted as I didn’t sleep much last night again.  I agree, my kids are a huge motivation for me to get well again.  I hate how this has taken away my ability to enjoy time with them like I’d like to.  I so appreciate your support🤗

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Cheeky
3 hours ago, Hazel said:

Thank you so much Cheeky!  Today is getting better-I am just exhausted as I didn’t sleep much last night again.  I agree, my kids are a huge motivation for me to get well again.  I hate how this has taken away my ability to enjoy time with them like I’d like to.  I so appreciate your support🤗

I’m happy to hear your feeling better. How old are your children, I have two boys a 6 year old and a 15 year old, the loves of my life’s.

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Hazel

I have 2 girls, ages 13 and 7 and an almost-11 year old boy.  They mean the world to me as well and I really want to get better for them.  Anxiety is starting to creep back in again.🙁

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Cheeky

Hey hun,

I’m haveing one of those days as well , we’re going to beat this , stay strong and with you in this ((((((hugs)))))))

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Hazel

Hugs to you too Cheeky-we will beat this!

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Cheeky
On 3/4/2018 at 1:19 PM, Hazel said:

Hugs to you too Cheeky-we will beat this!

THankyou Hazel xx

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DaveB
On 3/3/2018 at 10:57 AM, Hazel said:

Thank you so much Cheeky!  Today is getting better-I am just exhausted as I didn’t sleep much last night again.  I agree, my kids are a huge motivation for me to get well again.  I hate how this has taken away my ability to enjoy time with them like I’d like to.  I so appreciate your support🤗

 

Wow I know this feeling. My biggest fear is what this is doing to my family as I continue to slug on as a shell of the man I used to be. It will get better, having kids makes you REALLY want it to end soon, but we can't really will our way t the finish line.

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Cheeky
4 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

Wow I know this feeling. My biggest fear is what this is doing to my family as I continue to slug on as a shell of the man I used to be. It will get better, having kids makes you REALLY want it to end soon, but we can't really will our way t the finish line.

Dave I know, I try to act as normal as possible around my kids but sometimes I feel like crying because of the guilt I have not being able to

fumction

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DaveB

How are you Hazel? Things improving?

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Hazel

Thanks for asking Dave.

Things have been up and down over the past week.  I have good days where I think I am stabilizing, and then am hit with high anxiety and sleepless nights.  Every time I get hit by a wave I doubt I will ever be able to stabilize on Paroxetine, but when I feel good, I’m sure I can do it.  I’m guessing you can relate.  I am feeling good at the moment, so hopefully this continues for a while.  I could use a nice long break from withdrawal 😊

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DaveB
17 minutes ago, Hazel said:

Thanks for asking Dave.

Things have been up and down over the past week.  I have good days where I think I am stabilizing, and then am hit with high anxiety and sleepless nights.  Every time I get hit by a wave I doubt I will ever be able to stabilize on Paroxetine, but when I feel good, I’m sure I can do it.  I’m guessing you can relate.  I am feeling good at the moment, so hopefully this continues for a while.  I could use a nice long break from withdrawal 😊

 

Boy can I ever relate, exactly how I have been feeling for a good while now. So weird how all the doubt just fades away when feeling good, but comes back turning doubt into certainty when the anxiety hits!

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Cheeky
1 hour ago, DaveB said:

 

Boy can I ever relate, exactly how I have been feeling for a good while now. So weird how all the doubt just fades away when feeling good, but comes back turning doubt into certainty when the anxiety hits!

Hazel and Dave the great thing is you are getting windows, so your starting to stabilise, it just takes time. 

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Hazel

Hi Cheeky!

I do try to look at the windows as a good sign that I am stabilizing, but I have had this pattern for about 9 months now or more of a few good days then several bad days and it doesn’t seem to be getting any better.  Have you noticed a difference in the waves and windows you experience, like the waves being shorter and the windows lasting longer?  I really haven’t noticed that in myself yet and feel like I should be by now.  Hope you are feeling good Cheeky?

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Cheeky
16 minutes ago, Hazel said:

Hi Cheeky!

I do try to look at the windows as a good sign that I am stabilizing, but I have had this pattern for about 9 months now or more of a few good days then several bad days and it doesn’t seem to be getting any better.  Have you noticed a difference in the waves and windows you experience, like the waves being shorter and the windows lasting longer?  I really haven’t noticed that in myself yet and feel like I should be by now.  Hope you are feeling good Cheeky?

Hazel the difference with myself and you is I went back to my antidepressant I"ve been on all my life which is Paxil. I tried other drugs and couldn't stabilize so after 3 months of trying Cymbalta, Zoloft I went back on paxil.

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Hazel
5 minutes ago, Cheeky said:

Hazel the difference with myself and you is I went back to my antidepressant I"ve been on all my life which is Paxil. I tried other drugs and couldn't stabilize so after 3 months of trying Cymbalta, Zoloft I went back on paxil.

Yes, I’m sure that makes a big difference that you went back to the drug you were on for a long time.  I wish I would have found this site before switching, but now I just have to hope that eventually I will stabilize on Paxil.  

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