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FalseGods: Depression, anxiety and Citalopram

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FalseGods
Hi SA,
 
Good to be here. I've been reading some of the stories on here with interest. Kinda makes my problems seem pretty small in comparison to others! I'm more and more horrified by what I'm discovering about discontinuation syndrome. As a postgraduate scientist, I've read a few of the papers associated with SSRI withdrawal and I can't believe how little real information is out there for patients and doctors. 
 
I think I've been depressed since I was a teenager, but I was essentially snubbed by psychiatrists at the time (apparently, cutting yourself counts as ‘teenage angst’ in the UK) and didn't get into the mental healthcare system until I was around 25 when I started having really severe panic attacks and anxiety. I'd taken a minor in psychology as an undergrad and, armed with quite a lot of information, was determined not to use drugs unless I felt I really needed to. The anxiety ebbed and flowed, but I generally did OK.
 
After moving to the US for grad school (and embarking on a very long distance relationship), I had a nervous breakdown due to burn out and relationship anxiety at the end of 2013. I moved back home and spiraled further, and eventually my friend took me to the doctor and I decided to try medication, with a lot of skepticism. I tried propranolol (a beta blocker) for about a month or so, which just made me feel ill and didn't really help as a chronic medication. Then I I tried Mirtazipine, which left me with a completely blunted affect, incapable of feeling anything at all and making me too tired to function anyway. I quickly got off that and went on Citalopram, which I tapered up on, through some really horrible side effects (talk about red flags!). I remember the first day when the Citalopram really kicked in because I was hypomanic for about a week. It was like being on MDMA, a drug I had used heavily for about 8 years before. I also lost my sex drive entirely, got restless leg syndrome and started putting on weight.
 
I went back to grad school in 2015 and after an initial period of motivation, and a short period of hypomania (2ish months), I gradually ended up back in a pit of despair and anxiety. I managed to stave off doctors’ attempts to put up my dosage and remained on 20mg until May last year (2016) when I decided to try and taper off as I didn’t feel like the medication was really helping with my symptoms and I’ve been sick of the sexual side effects since I started. I managed to get from 20mg down to 10mg before the withdrawal symptoms got too bad. I now realise that I tapered too rapidly . Either way, I stayed on 10mg deciding grad school wasn’t the time or place to be tapering. Just after that, I decided to Master out of my PhD program and enjoyed a 3-4 month period of hypomania where I felt completely amazing, extremely creative, was eating books and information and felt on top of the world…I even saw a slight return of my sex drive. This came crashing down again in October following another really sudden bout of relationship anxiety.
 
Now I’m done with university, and have been unemployed for a bit, I wanted to get off the meds ASAP so that I could get on with my life. Rookie error! I tapered from 10mg to 5mg in about a month around the end of February with no real issue, but now I’m a complete mess again. I’ve struggled to get beyond 5mg, with bouts of extreme depression, mood swings and suicidal ideation. I’m currently taking 5mg/2.5mg every other day but I’m right on the verge of going back to 5mg for a second time because I’m suffering bad. 
 
I’ve been sick as a dog for 2 weeks, I think I do have genuine sinusitis and a terrible head cold, but perhaps the symptoms have been amplified due to the medication? Hard to say really. This past week I’ve had terrible depression, suicidal thoughts, crying spells and violent mood swings. I really feel like everything is crushingly pointless, that I am worthless and hopeless. I feel like my life is falling apart and that I’m going to destroy the remaining good parts because I can’t be around people most of the time, including my long-suffering partner. I feel like a complete burden on everyone. Apologies for the pity party, but this is where I am right now.
 
I hope that this post might help someone else coming off this medication. I’m really stunned at how difficult it has been to get off it and do wonder a lot whether my continuing problems have been due to the medication rather than a continuing mental health problems.

 

 


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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Pepita

Hi there!

Welcome to this forum, it has been a tremendous help for me too :) I kow these questions "is it wirhdrawal or continous mental health issues" all too well but I can say for certain that I've never been as miserable as post- meds. I have also had some episodes of lifht panic attacks when I was 18 and swiched to university. But I was always able to go on with my life and symptoms were ever as severe as in Wirhdrawal. I guess one can only know after a few years off medication how "the real you" is. and I know for sure that things are slowly getting better, with many ups and downs but a certain improvement

Best, Pepita


2005-2006: Cipralex 5 mg

2009-2010: Cipralex 5 mg

2012-2015: Cipralex 5mg, 10mg 

tapered 10mg-7.5mg-5mg-2,5-0 (I always waited for a few weeks on the current dosage until I felt stable. Steps were too big I realized too late)

Completely drug free since August 2015

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mammaP

Hi Falsegods, welcome to SA.  You are right in thinking of going back to 5mg every day. Alternating doses is destabilising and causes withdrawal. You need a steady dose to get things settled, the same dose every day. You might be better to updose to 7.5, half way between because it hasn't been long since you went to 5. Would that have been around the end of March?  When you are stable you can then start a slow taper. We recommend tapering no more than 10% of the current dose with at least 3-4 weeks between drops to give the brain chance to catch up. You will get through this and feel better. 

 

 Hypomania is a withdrawal symptom, lots of people come here ecstatic because they have tapered their drug and feel amazing. We watch and wait and invariably they are back when the mania has passed and given way to crushing withdrawal.  

 

You will peobably have learned that the 'chemical imbalance ' that causes 'depression' is a theory that was dreamed upby the drug companies. This is becoming more widely known now and in some places they are no longer allowed to use that as a selling point. 

There are many causes of depression and, lots of them physical such as thyroid and lack of some nutrients such as vitamins B12 and D. Doctors are also recognising that inflammation is another cause. We also need to learn how to cope with emotional problems and anxieties. 

 

Thank you for the signature, it is very helpful. Can I just ask if you can add when you went to 5mg? 

 

I will get some links for you. 

 

Taperig citalopram  

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2023-tips-for-tapering-off-celexa-citalopram/page__pid__19887#entry19887

 

What is withdrawal syndrome 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/603-what-is-withdrawal-syndrome/

 

Reinstating or updosing

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

Non drug ways of coping

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

 

Reinstaing and updosing 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

These 2 links are to pages that have links to all the important info here.  

 

Tapering 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/300-important-topics-in-the-tapering-forum-and-faq/

 

Symptoms and self care 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/604-important-topics-about-symptoms-including-sleep-problems/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/606-important-topics-about-tests-supplements-treatments-diet/


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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FalseGods

Thanks Pepita! Good to know there's support out there. University can really take it out of you if you've got underlying problems.

 

mammaP - thanks for taking the time to respond. I'll make sure to read the links you provided. I think I will go back to 5mg and see how that does. I did it about two weeks ago after my initial nose dive and I responded well. I feel like a bit of an idiot for thinking I could taper so fast, but then again, how was I to know?

 

I've never used drugs as the only treatment for my mental health issues, I think that's always a losing battle. I've tried my best to stay active, eat healthy, have regular therapy and the like. But this all seems so much harder to maintain when I'm in withdrawal. Plus I've felt stuck for such a very long time, sometimes it all just seems really pointless :/

 

I'm currently asking my partner about when I starting tapering again. One of my other symptoms has been cognitive impairment and memory issues. I've always had a bad memory, but not like I have the past couple of years. I can barely remember what I did last week at the moment!


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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FalseGods

I've been on my reinstated dose of 5mg for about 5 days now. I still feel a bit weird (you know, like you always feel on antidepressants), but my mood seems to have mostly stabilised. I've had some anxiety, but I've been able to manage it. I've also become a complete recluse. Going outside has just become too much. I'm going on holiday tomorrow, so I'm hoping that the change will help me to feel better rather than it getting ruined. 


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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mammaP

Glad you are feeling a little better. I hope you manage to enjoy the holiday, sometimes a change of scenery can be therapeutic  :)


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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FalseGods

Hi again SA,

 

It's been a little while since I posted. I went on holiday with my partner at the end of the month. I had a really amazing time right up until the last day when I lost my **** and almost broke up with my partner again. Had a really severe mood swing into OCD thought patterns and I just blew my lid. Luckily my partner is amazing and managed to talk me down, but I'm still feeling the after effects now.

 

I went back up to my dosage of 5mg after my first post and I have remained on that and intend to maybe until the end of the month. I went to see my doctor today and he was able to prescribe me an oral solution of citalopram, but unfortunately it's 2mg/drop so will only be good for a little bit. He said that such small doses were pretty much 'homeopathic', which, whilst I loved him for saying that as a fellow empiricist, was kinda difficult because I know how sensitive I am to those small doses. I did try to counter him a bit and he definitely takes me seriously, but as with all GPs, he's not up to date with the science. Either way, I'm left wondering how I'm going to start tapering down based on what I've got. I am a little reluctant to make my own solution as I'm afraid of not getting quite the right amount per drop....maybe I can dilute my oral solution?


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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ChessieCat

If you need help with the maths to get your doses, there are members here who are good with that, so please ask if you need to:

 

Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

From Post #5:  "As it already contains water, this suggests it can be diluted."

 

.


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 12 Sept 2020:  Pristiq 0.625 mg (compounded)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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FalseGods

Thanks Chessie :)

 

I'll check those out and hopefully I'll be able to start tapering soon :)


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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FalseGods

Hi all,

 

It's been a while since I posted, so I thought I'd start a new topic. I've been really struggling the past couple of weeks with severe withdrawal symptoms. Been getting dreadful flu-like aches/sore throat and major fatigue for the first time (my temperature is normal so I'm assuming it's withdrawal flu, plus cold meds aren't having too much of an effect). I'm also verging on nausea. Weird how it's started over a week after I changed my dose, but there you go. Anyone else experience this?


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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myndfull

FalseGods,

 

I, too, am withdrawing from Celexa/Citalopram. When August 17 rolls around next month, it will be three years. I've felt all the flu-like symptoms you describe in your last post, though now that I'm getting to very low (liquid) doses, the waves have become more manageable. I hesitate to say that, however, because they're still bad. But they're easier for me to bear, in large part because I know them for what they are: neuro emotions. 

 

The fact that I am on SA right now means that I'm not feeling myself. As an academic, one of the things that has hurt me the most over the last three years has been the loss of my interests in reading, writing, and music (playing and listening). However, in the last few months my ability to read has returned; I'm writing a great deal, and I've been buying music again--tho' listening requires a "window" that I don't get very often.

 

My WD symptoms are now, generally speaking, low-level depression and anxiety. Since these symptoms were my normal state before I began taking the drug, and the reasons why I began taking Paxil then Celexa many years ago, I feel that I'm returning to my old self. That's okay because the anxiety/depression I used to feel was something I had learned to tolerate. Also, I can deal with my "issues" now; perhaps that's true mostly because I'm older, but it must also be true because of what I've learned about the nature of sanity. It was a grave mistake to start this medication, but I didn't know then what I know now, so I don't beat myself up about that. I had a very demanding job back then when I started, and two kids to help raise and Daddy's little helper turned out to be an SSRI. You never cease being a parent, and life never cease to be a challenge, so, though I have a comparatively minor case of "mixed state" depression and anxiety, perhaps GAD, with an occasional panic response to whatever, I could (and still can) get by. I'm looking forward to doing that without an SSRI in my bloodstream. As I've written somewhere on SA, the only time I've been seriously depressed has been while withdrawing from an anti-depressant. I'm well-schooled in paradox.

 

What I'd like you to know is that withdrawing can be done. Be patient, if you can, and drop 10% of your last dose every three to five weeks. Don't be in a hurry. It will take a while. You will learn a great deal about yourself in completing the task because the task itself is one of the hardest things you will ever do. One of the hardest things about tapering is learning to have the patience needed to get the job done. 

 

I see that you're taking Omega essential oils; I'd like to recommend Hemp Seed Oil. I'd also recommend frequent exercise and a sugarless diet. 

 

Myndfull


 

I had tried and failed to stop Paxil several times (though never using a long, slow taper) and thought Celexa might be easier, so I shifted to Celexa in 2012. In August of 2014 I began a serious tapered withdrawal from Celexa (20 mg.), making monthly drops, mostly 10% of the last dose, sometimes more, sometimes less.  In July of 2016 I took an early retirement at 59 in large part because of my intense withdrawal  symptoms.

 

Three years and eight months after beginning my taper, I stopped taking Celexa on 5/12/18.

 

I am currently in recovery and I am very slowly getting better. I still have waves and some are quite bad. But overall the trend is toward healing.

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FalseGods

Hi Myndfull,

 

Thanks for the reply :) Some of your story does ring true with me. On the whole, despite having crappy physical symptoms I actually feel OK in the brain department right now which is less common than I'd like. 

 

I've definitely become more interested in old hobbies, but I still go through periods of just feeling terribly unmotivated and lazy. Right now I've been feeling so ill that I can't really do much. It's very frustrating - not to mention I'm not getting paid. Coming to terms with the amount of time it's going to take to get off completely is a bit sad, but yeah, patience is a good skill to learn. Sometimes I get little glimpses of life without SSRIs, like having a sex drive for a whole day (imagine!) and actually just feeling pretty mentally level, like I do now. It's encouraging, but equally maddening at times. 

 

One thing I have recently found quite liberating is to let go of psychiatric labels. At some point recently I realised that I'd become so bogged down in trying to "find out what was wrong with me" or some specific nuance of an existing label that I was basically pathologising everything I did. It was awful. I decided to stop using the internet to look for endless information. My internet usage dropped to about a tenth of what it was (!) and I suddenly felt a lot freer. Although my diagnosis had initially felt comforting, relying too hard on finding my own special pigeon hole, which doesn't exist, was actually doing me more harm than good. 

 

One of my friends would love your Hemp oil suggestion, she's obsessed! I'll see if I can get some, it's a good call. My work is pretty physical (I work in a kitchen at the moment) and I cycle most places, but it would be good to get back into some running again. 


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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FalseGods

Also, I really messed up tonight and accidentally took double my normal dose because I was distracted when I was diluting and forgot to do it twice *facedesk* trying not to beat myself up, but feel like a bit of an idiot. If I'm lucky, it might take the edge off my symptoms, but obviously I don't intend to do it again :/


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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FalseGods

Feeling a bit less like death today. I'm a bit worried that the symptoms will come back tomorrow after my regular dose, but I'm trying to be positive. Trying to focus on drinking plenty and eating well!


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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powerback

:D the amount of times I cant remember taking my drug and spend the day watching out for symptoms .good your being positive and eating well .

I can so relate to feeling like an idiot but we got to acknowledge how dam strong and determined we are to get through this .

keep strong

PB


Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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FalseGods

Thanks PB!

 

Trying to hang in there. I'm pretty relieved that the flu symptoms have calmed down. Going back to work tomorrow....


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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powerback

good you have something to focus on  ,when symptoms are manageable its good to keep busy


Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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FalseGods

Weird day so far. Managed to get up and out of bed to go to therapy this morning. It's a nice 25 minute walk through the park to get there. On my way back I popped into work for a little training and within an hour I started to feel really light headed and quite out of it. Sort of floaty. I had something to eat, which helped a bit, but I came home for a couple of hours before my shift starts to have a nap. I'm still feeling a little fuzzy. I need to work today or I'm going to be very short on rent this week, but I think I'll be taking regular breaks and sitting down as much as I can. 

 

This is really odd. Does anyone else have experience of this? 


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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myndfull

FalseGods -- What you said about pathologizing everything is an issue that I've had trouble with, too. I don't know what my diagnosis is, really. My doc proscribed an SSRI because I brought it up. He replied with the old, "Well, diabetics need insulin. Depressed people need more serotonin." The chemical imbalance idea. I don't use the Internet as much as I used to; I gave up Facebook. I try to encourage in me and others more face-to-face time.

 

I've come to believe that we're all chemically imbalanced to some degree and that that's the human condition. The modern world doesn't make it easy. So, yeah, I get not wanting to "nail" a diagnosis. Those labels only pin oneself down and define. I'd rather just like to believe that "We're all in the same boat. Let's not point fingers. Let's help each other out." We are who we are. It is what it is. My mother, who was British, used to say I was "nervous." Yes, possibly a bit more than others, but not unreasonably so. We use the word "anxious" now

 

And I've skipped or missed doses, too, plenty of times. I feel a little off for a few days, but the equilibrium returns.

 

The sex drive does come back. And if weight has been an issue, losing weight becomes relatively easy. I've lost almost thirty pounds since beginning my taper. That has helped me get back into more frequent exercise. So, there's lots of positives to this journey and they happen along the way. 

 

Fuzzy headedness is a withdrawal symptom. Try to get a copy of the monthly symptoms chart so that you can track your daily symptoms. If you do you'll begin to see, month by month, how "regular" the rise and fall of withdrawal symptoms are. You can find it somewhere here on SAD.org. It's identified with a doctor's name....


 

I had tried and failed to stop Paxil several times (though never using a long, slow taper) and thought Celexa might be easier, so I shifted to Celexa in 2012. In August of 2014 I began a serious tapered withdrawal from Celexa (20 mg.), making monthly drops, mostly 10% of the last dose, sometimes more, sometimes less.  In July of 2016 I took an early retirement at 59 in large part because of my intense withdrawal  symptoms.

 

Three years and eight months after beginning my taper, I stopped taking Celexa on 5/12/18.

 

I am currently in recovery and I am very slowly getting better. I still have waves and some are quite bad. But overall the trend is toward healing.

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powerback
3 hours ago, FalseGods said:

Weird day so far. Managed to get up and out of bed to go to therapy this morning. It's a nice 25 minute walk through the park to get there. On my way back I popped into work for a little training and within an hour I started to feel really light headed and quite out of it. Sort of floaty. I had something to eat, which helped a bit, but I came home for a couple of hours before my shift starts to have a nap. I'm still feeling a little fuzzy. I need to work today or I'm going to be very short on rent this week, but I think I'll be taking regular breaks and sitting down as much as I can. 

 

This is really odd. Does anyone else have experience of this? 

exactly FG .fake it till you make it .do enough to get you through the day and get what you need .


Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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FalseGods
4 hours ago, myndfull said:

I've come to believe that we're all chemically imbalanced to some degree and that that's the human condition.

This is kinda interesting, the way you said it. Maybe it would be more kind to think of it as a spectrum within the human condition. Sometimes our moods go up and down and since the mind and body are intrinsically linked, this is bound to have an effect on our physiology...in this case our neurotransmitters and general brain chemistry. From this angle I can almost sympathise with the insulin-for-diabetics-seratonin-for-depression argument, but of course the main difference between those is that diabetes has a known and proven biological pathway, but mental health conditions do not. Sorry for the waxing lyrical! Just sparked my interest.

 

My Mum and Dad both said I was a sensitive and anxious kid and my Mum recently told me she worried about my sense of self esteem when I got into my teens because of some stuff I used to say. Shame that sort of thing isn't considered as part of healthcare as I'm certain that some people are hypersensitive and some people remain pretty level and unphased by anything (another spectrum!).

 

I've been worried for ages that my sex drive will never come back properly. I used to be such a sexual person with a really high drive and now I'm never interested, especially since I've been lowering my dosage again. My poor partner :( 


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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FalseGods

Thanks PB! (sorry, have to say, when I shorten your name I imagine peanut butter sandwiches! :) )


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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powerback
9 hours ago, FalseGods said:

Thanks PB! (sorry, have to say, when I shorten your name I imagine peanut butter sandwiches! :) )

:D haha


Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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powerback
10 hours ago, FalseGods said:

This is kinda interesting, the way you said it. Maybe it would be more kind to think of it as a spectrum within the human condition. Sometimes our moods go up and down and since the mind and body are intrinsically linked, this is bound to have an effect on our physiology...in this case our neurotransmitters and general brain chemistry. From this angle I can almost sympathise with the insulin-for-diabetics-seratonin-for-depression argument, but of course the main difference between those is that diabetes has a known and proven biological pathway, but mental health conditions do not. Sorry for the waxing lyrical! Just sparked my interest.

 

My Mum and Dad both said I was a sensitive and anxious kid and my Mum recently told me she worried about my sense of self esteem when I got into my teens because of some stuff I used to say. Shame that sort of thing isn't considered as part of healthcare as I'm certain that some people are hypersensitive and some people remain pretty level and unphased by anything (another spectrum!).

 

I've been worried for ages that my sex drive will never come back properly. I used to be such a sexual person with a really high drive and now I'm never interested, especially since I've been lowering my dosage again. My poor partner :( 

ye I agree its a very interesting post ,I've heard Terence McKenna  talk about this .the chemical brain but I'm not sure if he making an argument for marijuana and that was years ago .its a very interesting topic ,the insulin situation seems to be so simple and straight forward ,but these drugs are so complicated and the side affects are endless.

I agree about the sensitivities as a child ,I have done loads of introspection into my past and I have my mother worn out with questions the last 5 years ^_^.great women very accommodating ,if not a little defensive with some questions :D.

I believe once you give up on the meds/insulin comparison it leaves you open to understanding the body's homeostasis and our history .

 

when you say sensitive to most people  ,the ego is mixed up with it and its seen as a weakness but in the body something must be going on with the nervous system .this is why diet could be even more important when it comes to kids ,with ADHD thrown around so much .antibiotics,vaccines ,infections and so on this all plays a part on stress in the body  ,it can be something of a lottery .

very interesting what you say about self esteem  ,I approached very painful feelings in therapy and I developed very low self esteem and its all connected ,how can it develop when anxiety is ripping through our body's and causing us stress and its not understood ,especially when I was a kid .

but I do believe self esteem can be worked on and built up .

I believe self esteem is the stepping stone to self actualisation [this all has to be built on when coming off the meds I reckon ]

when I was a kid I was constantly being told negative things [doctors, teachers ,peers,adults  ] it sticks and forms a certain view of ones self .I seemed to absorb the negativity .[I believe my parents did there best though]

grown up with anxiety is tough and it holds you back massively and your IQ can be affected because of the constant fight or flight going on .

sorry I ramble ,I could chat all day about this stuff ,you know were to find me :D.

Peace

PB

 


Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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FalseGods
On 7/28/2017 at 10:53 AM, powerback said:

antibiotics,vaccines ,infections and so on this all plays a part on stress in the body  ,it can be something of a lottery .

 

Infections and disease are part of the human condition. They all have an effect down the line for sure though. A friend of mine has chronic fatigue disorder and has been essentially housebound for almost 5 years. The origin of these sorts of illnesses is usually linked with early post-viral fatigue. Interestingly, I would say she's one of my most sensitive friends as well. She gets very easily upset and is very bodily aware (and not just because she is very depressed due to her condition). I mean, this is all anecdotal of course, but still interesting to think about.


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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myndfull

FG and PB--

 

Self-esteem--I prefer the word confidence--is also largely chemical. It's passed down. Positive self-worth probably comes more from a fight within ourselves, not from without. It doesn't come from the teacher who reflexively says, "Good job!" when we feel it wasn't. It comes out of, or from, or through a process of reflection. All the criticism we hear and see in the world doesn't have to make us feel bad about ourselves. It can give the impetus to feel better. A paradox, I know. Experience is meant to teach us something.  One of those lessons might be, "When you have a lemon, make lemonade." 

 

Here's a couple of articles that relate to this a bit.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/03/well/live/turning-negative-thinkers-into-positive-ones.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=Moth-Visible&moduleDetail=inside-nyt-region-3&module=inside-nyt-region&region=inside-nyt-region&WT.nav=inside-nyt-region

 

https://www.nytimes.com/guides/well/how-to-deal-with-stress

 


 

I had tried and failed to stop Paxil several times (though never using a long, slow taper) and thought Celexa might be easier, so I shifted to Celexa in 2012. In August of 2014 I began a serious tapered withdrawal from Celexa (20 mg.), making monthly drops, mostly 10% of the last dose, sometimes more, sometimes less.  In July of 2016 I took an early retirement at 59 in large part because of my intense withdrawal  symptoms.

 

Three years and eight months after beginning my taper, I stopped taking Celexa on 5/12/18.

 

I am currently in recovery and I am very slowly getting better. I still have waves and some are quite bad. But overall the trend is toward healing.

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FalseGods

I was actually talking about self esteem with my therapist today. It does sort of feel like this intangible thing that other people have I don't know how to get. 

 

Thanks for the articles, they were very interesting :)


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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FalseGods

Hi all,

 

It's been a bit of a crazy couple of weeks, work-wise. I seem to be having a good window at the moment and I'm grateful for it. It's amazing the clarity that comes with a good period of mental health. Everything seems easier to cope with and fending off those brain gremlins takes no time at all. I'm trying to enjoy it and not worry about it going away. It's allowed me to really get on with projects and business ideas which has been glorious. All the perceived problems I had with my partner seem to have melted away and we're also in a really good place. 

 

I'm keeping on my supplements, dosage regimen etc...could definitely be doing better in the exercise department, but I'm really tired from being on my feet at work all the time! It's probably time to drop my dosage again really, but I'm dragging my heels for obvious reasons. 

 

How is everyone?


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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FalseGods

Hi SA,

 

And alas, I find myself here again. Two days ago I woke up with The Dread. The gut-punching severity of it was out of nowhere, although this time at least I had managed to recognise that I was starting to find it more difficult to cope. I suspect I have been pushing myself way too hard with work during the window I just had (must have been just over two months, but it felt longer!). Have been dealing with some quite severe work stress, including money worries, probably overworking myself trying to start a new business and having to deal with some seriously abrasive people in my work place. 

 

My friend was visiting me from abroad and she was able to calm me down a bit with logic and assure me that it was just a hiccup, but I'm feeling really scared. Last time I had a wave, it was incredibly severe and lasted six months or so. In that time I managed to almost destroy my relationship (again) and could barely work or do anything. I'm trying really hard not to panic, but having this feeling in my gut again is really worrying. I panicked so hard the day it arrived, I felt suicidal. 

 

I feel a bit annoyed as I had identified that I wasn't coping and was starting to find the brain gremlins creeping in again, and as such had made a plant to change my schedule so that I could take more time for self care etc. But evidently I was too late. The most frustrating thing about these bouts is that despite the obvious connection of the wave with work stress (I've been having multiple stress dreams all about work) my brain always focuses on there being problems with my relationship. It's almost instantaneous, like there's some groove that's been carved in my brain associated with the terrible, terrible feeling in my gut. Sure, my relationship isn't perfect, but I really don't think this has anything to do with why I'm feeling crappy at the moment. Does anyone else experience this - doggedly coming back to the same false ideas and struggling to stave them off?

 

I have been on a 4mg dose since July some time (I should have kept better notes on this) and was having such a good window that I didn't want to mess it up. Now it's clear that I won't be able to move from 4mg for a while. I'm feeling pretty upset, but also determined to focus inwards and give myself a break. Do some yoga, that sort of thing.


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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myndfull
On 10/1/2017 at 5:55 AM, FalseGods said:

Hi SA,

 

And alas, I find myself here again. Two days ago I woke up with The Dread. The gut-punching severity of it was out of nowhere, although this time at least I had managed to recognise that I was starting to find it more difficult to cope. I suspect I have been pushing myself way too hard with work during the window I just had (must have been just over two months, but it felt longer!). Have been dealing with some quite severe work stress, including money worries, probably overworking myself trying to start a new business and having to deal with some seriously abrasive people in my work place. 

 

My friend was visiting me from abroad and she was able to calm me down a bit with logic and assure me that it was just a hiccup, but I'm feeling really scared. Last time I had a wave, it was incredibly severe and lasted six months or so. In that time I managed to almost destroy my relationship (again) and could barely work or do anything. I'm trying really hard not to panic, but having this feeling in my gut again is really worrying. I panicked so hard the day it arrived, I felt suicidal. 

 

I feel a bit annoyed as I had identified that I wasn't coping and was starting to find the brain gremlins creeping in again, and as such had made a plant to change my schedule so that I could take more time for self care etc. But evidently I was too late. The most frustrating thing about these bouts is that despite the obvious connection of the wave with work stress (I've been having multiple stress dreams all about work) my brain always focuses on there being problems with my relationship. It's almost instantaneous, like there's some groove that's been carved in my brain associated with the terrible, terrible feeling in my gut. Sure, my relationship isn't perfect, but I really don't think this has anything to do with why I'm feeling crappy at the moment. Does anyone else experience this - doggedly coming back to the same false ideas and struggling to stave them off?

 

I have been on a 4mg dose since July some time (I should have kept better notes on this) and was having such a good window that I didn't want to mess it up. Now it's clear that I won't be able to move from 4mg for a while. I'm feeling pretty upset, but also determined to focus inwards and give myself a break. Do some yoga, that sort of thing.

 

FA -- It seems to me you know how to take care of yourself, though your brain chemistry sometimes might want to mess with you. Stress management has always been a problem of mine and early in my life I found two things worked for me very well--you'll already know them: meditation (TM) and exercise (long-distance running). 

 

Unfortunately, I can't do TM now unless I'm having a window. It simply won't "take" when I'm in a wave. I still exercise but I only do two miles on a treadmill, four to five times a week. It's better than nothing and no matter my mood before exercising I always have a much easier time getting stuff done after I run. It gives me energy. 

 

Anyway, I hope you can find the energy to make a safe drop sometime in the next two months and that you get back to that window before you do.

 

Myndfull


 

I had tried and failed to stop Paxil several times (though never using a long, slow taper) and thought Celexa might be easier, so I shifted to Celexa in 2012. In August of 2014 I began a serious tapered withdrawal from Celexa (20 mg.), making monthly drops, mostly 10% of the last dose, sometimes more, sometimes less.  In July of 2016 I took an early retirement at 59 in large part because of my intense withdrawal  symptoms.

 

Three years and eight months after beginning my taper, I stopped taking Celexa on 5/12/18.

 

I am currently in recovery and I am very slowly getting better. I still have waves and some are quite bad. But overall the trend is toward healing.

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FalseGods

Thanks Myndfull

 

I am feeling much better now. I think a lucky coincidence of some useful support in crisis and being able to take a few days for myself (I'm currently on a little holiday with my boyfriend and his parents) has really put me back on track. I feel really proud about how I coped, despite being utterly terrified at the time. Every crisis is an opportunity to learn something about the nature of my chemical and mental response to stressors. I'm so sensitive to things at the moment. I've basically had to give up everything - even coffee! Oversensitivity is definitely a new red flag on the list!

 

This has also solidified my intent to find a support group for OCD sufferers. I've been thinking for some time now that I have undiagnosed "pure" OCD....it certainly fits the bill better than anything else that I've been treated for. I think it would be helpful to go to some meetings and speak with some others to see if my suspicions have any weight. 

 

I'm also planning to drop again soon...my libido has disappeared again, although more frustratingly it's largely physical non-responsiveness than a lack of desire :/ I hate these damn pills!


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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mammaP

Hi FG, I'm glad to see that your wave did not last very long. You are describing how I am when I get a bad day, immediately my brain tells me that this is it, this will never end so I might as well end it because I can't live with this! I remind myself not to listen to the lies and get on with it. It will soon pass and it always does. It is cruel how we can come so far and feel so good then out of nowhere come these waves that are terrifying.   I would wait a bit longer before making a cut to be sure the wave has settled and is not still swirling slightly under the surface and your circumstances are more stable too. 

 

Enjoy the rest of your holiday, you deserve it! 


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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FalseGods

You guys are the best. Great to know I've got a place I can turn to when things get a bit hectic in the brain dome. Been doing some hardcore sitting around, yoga and eating yummy food whilst away...and I've managed to get lots of important business-related stuff done as well :) I'm feeling proud of my coping mechanisms right now.

 

Also got a response from the leader of an OCD support group which I'm going to try to attend in a couple of weeks. I think it will be helpful and hopefully I'll be able to take my partner along at some point so he can learn something more about it. 


From March 2014-May 2016 20mg Citalopram daily. Tapered to 10mg daily around May 2016 but couldn't continue due to withdrawal symptoms. Doctor tapered me from 10mg to 5mg then to 2.5mg over the course of about 6 weeks, which was unsustainable. stayed at 5mg for 3 months before putting together a more sensible taper for myself.

 

Currently dosage 4mg: Tapering roughly 10% dosage reduction by diluting Cipramil solution (drawing from a dilution of 10mg/ml).

 

Supplements: Deva vegan multivitamin, 3000mg Vitamin D spray, Opti3 vegan Omega oil daily, 80mg magnesium chloride.

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