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Sunnyday

☼ Sunnyday: go back up in dosage?

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Sunnyday

Hi! English is not my first language so I apologize if my texts are confusing, same with my signature. 

 

I quit the last 5 mg escitalopram/cipralex 3 weeks ago. When I went down from 10 to 5 mg nothing got better so I started reading about tardive dysphoria which made me very eager to quit my medication completely. I also found out about 6 months ago that quitting 5 mg at a time is way too drastic for someone who has been using the medication for years, but I figured i'd just endure this last time.

The problem is that I've now found out from reading on this site and on other places that some of the side effects might become permanent. So my question now is, should I go back up to 5-4 mg, and then slowly go down 1 mg at a time from there? Or should I just wait this out when it has already been 3 weeks. I'm willing to wait it out if it gets better. But if there are big risks about doing what i'm doing right now i'm gonna go back up if that's your advice.

Ps: I do feel horrible physically and mentally and can practically not be around people, but as I said i'm willing to endure it if it gets better.

 

I can't trust my doctors anymore, they want to make me go back up to max dosage with both voxra and cipralex + start giving me more benzo for no good reason. Which is why I'm asking here, the people here seem to have good knowledge about this.

 

TL;DR: Go back up to 5 mg and go down 1 mg at a time or endure this and wait for it to get better?

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Petunia

Welcome,

Your English is fine.

 

Thank you for filling in your signature. Please would you add the date you stopped taking Cipralex.

 

You mentioned benzos, are you taking these also? If so, please would you add those to your signature, even if you only take them occasionally. Having a complete drug and tapering history in your signature helps people get a clear understanding of your situation. The previous 2 years is the most important.

 

You tapered much too fast. 5mg is not a small amount, that was my full dose for the 6 years I was taking escitalopram. We suggest reducing by no more than 10% of the current dose every 4 weeks, this reduces the risk of withdrawal symptoms arising. Please read through this which will explain why:

  

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Its great that you found us and are asking for advice now, because you are still in a good time frame for when reinstatement is likely to help. When you stop taking an antidepressant too fast, withdrawal symptoms can sometimes last a long time, especially if you have been on the drug long term.

 

Withdrawal syndrome can last for months and in some cases years. I came off the same drug too fast at the end of 2010, after being on antidepressants for 13 years, and I'm still not completely recovered. By the time I learned about withdrawal, it was too late for me to go back on the drug and taper slowly.

 

You will get better, but its impossible to know how long it will take.

 

Reinstatement of a small amount of the drug can often work well to alleviate withdrawal symptoms. According to medical knowledge, reinstatement is the only way to alleviate withdrawal. Reinstatement is best done immediately upon appearance of symptoms. The more time that passes, the less likely it is to work. Once you have stabilized on a low dose of the drug, then a slower, safer taper can be started. Here is some information about reinstatement to help you decide if its something you would like to try:  About reinstating and stabilizing to stop withdrawal symptoms

 

Because you have been off the drug for 3 weeks, and stopped from 5mg,  I would suggest you try going back onto 2.5mg and see how you feel.

 

Here are our tips for tapering Cipralex, where you can find methods of dividing your dose into small quantities:

 

Tips for tapering off Lexapro (escitalopram)

 

Please read through the links and come back here to your thread if you have any questions.

 

Stay in touch and let us know what you decide, we will be here with help and support if you need it.

 

Petunia.

 

Edited by ChessieCat
name change

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Sunnyday
On 2017-04-24 at 0:46 AM, Petunia said:

Welcome LouBlue,

Your English is fine.

 

Thank you for filling in your signature. Please would you add the date you stopped taking Cipralex.

...

 

Thank you, I've added that info to my signature now.  

 

Do you think it's okay to cut the pills instead of taking it in liquid form? At least in the beginning if I cut a 10 mg pill in 4 pieces. I did see some people in the threads you linked did cut pills instead of taking liquid but I got the impression they saw it as a risk, since it was difficult to get an exact dosage. Maybe I can ask the doctor to give me 5 mg pills again, even though the doctor I got the last time was very stubborn and did not want to listen to me at all. If my only option is to cut the 10 mg in 4 pieces, do you think that's okay? I just tried cutting them and they don't look uneven in that way.

 

Thank you for the links and for taking the time. I have no one else to ask for help that has the knowledge so I'm very happy that I found this place.

Edited by scallywag
trimmed quote to relevant portions

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Petunia

Yes, it would be ok to cut your pills to start with, but when you start tapering, you will need to learn how to use a more accurate method. Here is some information about cutting pills:

 

How to cut up tablets or pills

 

And more information which may be helpful later:

 

Preparing to taper

 

How to calculate dosages?

 

How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques

 

Using a digital scale to measure doses

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Sunnyday

Hi. I have just read brassmonkey's thread about Emotional spirals, and Healing's thread about neuro-emotions. Both had great information and I can relate a lot. This has been the worst part for me during withdrawal.

My biggest fear is that this will be something permanent. I was never like this before. I made confrontations only when I really needed to and stayed calm most times. I was rarely aggressive or someone who acted out without good reason, I think family and friends would agree on that. 

My personality has changed drastically for the worse.

 

I can handle this better if I know it's not something permanent, that this just like some of the physical symptoms will pass. Is it a possibility that these strong emotions that are very illogical and unjustified (and extremely hard to control) will become permanent? Or will I become my old self, sooner or later? I understand that it takes time, in any case.

 

Thank you

Edited by scallywag
merged topic "Permanent? (personality change)" in Symptoms

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ShakeyJerr

Hi -

 

This is not a permanent change. You will become your old self. Actually, you will likely become an even better version of you for having gone through this. A you that is more aware of how he wants to think and act and treat others.

 

Your brain and body are recovering their balance. It takes time. As you heal, take the time to reminisce about good memories. Allow them to form who you want to be. When you feel bad memories or anger coming on, acknowledge their existence, and then do some mindful breathing to calm and center yourself, while telling yourself that you do not need to give in to the bad. Do not fight against the feelings; that will fire the conflict within you further. Just realize that they are there, tell them you are not going to dwell or act on them, and move your thoughts and actions in the direction you want them to go. 

 

Yes, this can be a difficult thing to do - especially because what is happening to us is chemically based. But it can be done, and in the doing you will actually alter the way your body reacts to the chemistry, eventually altering the chemistry itself.

 

Hang in there. Be mindful. Breath. Go slowly.

 

SJ

 

Edited by ChessieCat
name change

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Sunnyday
On 7/2/2017 at 9:27 PM, ShakeyJerr said:

Hi  -

 

This is not a permanent change. You will become your old self. Actually, you will likely become an even better version of you for having gone through this. A you that is more aware of how he wants to think and act and treat others.

 

Your brain and body are recovering their balance. It takes time. As you heal, take the time to reminisce about good memories. Allow them to form who you want to be. When you feel bad memories or anger coming on, acknowledge their existence, and then do some mindful breathing to calm and center yourself, while telling yourself that you do not need to give in to the bad. Do not fight against the feelings; that will fire the conflict within you further. Just realize that they are there, tell them you are not going to dwell or act on them, and move your thoughts and actions in the direction you want them to go. 

 

Yes, this can be a difficult thing to do - especially because what is happening to us is chemically based. But it can be done, and in the doing you will actually alter the way your body reacts to the chemistry, eventually altering the chemistry itself.

 

Hang in there. Be mindful. Breath. Go slowly.

 

SJ

Thank you. I'm trying to handle my feelings as best as I can and already doing some of the stuff you mentioned. Had some progress, but as you say it's very difficult. It's also difficult when some people around you who haven't known you before don't understand the situation and start to think that this is the real me, probably because it doesn't make sense to them that I would change like this because of a medication (or lack of medication). I feel like it's very hard to maintain the relationships I have because at this point they are fragile. Both because I'm isolating myself and because of my unstable behavior and mood.

Edited by ChessieCat
name change

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Sunnyday

Hi. I just read benzo is the stuff to taper first, preferably. I have 20 mg left of the diazepam. Is there a risk with taking these (if I should really need them) now that I'm several months into the withdrawal? Will there be any serious consequenses. Good to know might be that I've been taking the benzo less than once a month, usually even less than that so I'm not really dependent on it in that sense.

 

Thank you

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Sunnyday

I meant I'm several months into the antidepressant withdrawal, not benzo.

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Sunnyday

Hi. Lately I've noticed some manic behavior in myself (I think, never experienced anything like this before). I've started becoming extremely emotionally involved in certain people, almost feeling kind of euphoric when with them some days, and the next day I feel nothing. It's like everything revolves around them for a short while. What has really made me start to wonder was that my sexdrive was extremely high all of a sudden. I thought this was a good sign, because before it meant that the more depressed/anxious I was the less of it I had. Then when I googled it I found that it could be a manic symptom (made complete sense when ), and therefor it could be a sign of being bipolar, and I also read that if a manic period is really bad it can end in psychosis (?). 

Last time I was at the doctor they suggested I might have bipolar when I decided to be honest about how I felt. At that point i regretted I had said anything because as usual they just couldn't see the whole picture I thought (with the withdrawal stuff), but now I'm just more and more unsure about the situation.

 

They gave me these pills when I was 17. I started showing signs of depression when I was 14-15. During those years before the pills I can't remember any manic periods that I had, but it still makes me wonder if it's a possibility since I was so young when all this started, or if it's just the withdrawal. 

I feel that I don't want to try to fix this by myself after I read about the risks of psychosis. I'm scared it'll get worse if I don't do something. It also feel like a trap because it usually takes a while for me to realize that I'm in it when I feel so good at first.

 

I searched the forum and saw some people experiencing mania, but nothing about how to handle it. This is kind of what I'm looking for, or some kind of insight. 

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MiguelFreeman

 post this on your introduction post it will help you get a response faster 

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Martina23

Are you sure that it is mania? It doesn't have to be. I had a lot of mood swings on the beginning of withdrawal, when still on drugs, some of them felt as if I started to be hypomanic but it always went away. You might also be in love. I felt hypomanic on the beginning of the withdrawal also when I took something brain activating like tea, coffee etc. Because the brain on withdrawal is much more sensitive on all substances like before.

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Sunnyday
11 hours ago, MiguelFreeman said:

 post this on your introduction post it will help you get a response faster 

 

Thank you for the suggestion, I'll do that!

 

1 hour ago, Martina23 said:

Are you sure that it is mania? It doesn't have to be. I had a lot of mood swings on the beginning of withdrawal, when still on drugs, some of them felt as if I started to be hypomanic but it always went away. You might also be in love. I felt hypomanic on the beginning of the withdrawal also when I took something brain activating like tea, coffee etc. Because the brain on withdrawal is much more sensitive on all substances like before.

 

I have no clue what it is to be honest, but it was the first thing that seemed pretty accurate when reading about it. I'm (pretty) sure I'm not in love, but it's possible that some substance is making me feel manic, it just seems so inconsistent to me.

I drink soda rarely, weak tea some days, and I also drink alcohol sometimes. I started writing down when I drank alcohol to maybe see a pattern, but there was none that I could see. I think the fact that the doctors mentioned bipolar is also what reinforced my suspicion, so it's hard to say. The ''manic'' periods (or whatever it is) are great though and I desperately hold on to them everytime. Maybe I'm just not used to feeling happy and that's what it is, haha. Because this time I don't have that obsessive feeling in the same way. Maybe it differs from time to time though, I'm not sure.

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Martina23

And how log does each manic episode last? Are they very short or take more days? And how many did you already have? Yes, sure, I mean you know the best if you are manic or not. I would observe it on your place, do now nothing, and see if it disappears or goes worse.

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Sunnyday
On 2017-12-17 at 11:33 AM, Martina23 said:

And how log does each manic episode last? Are they very short or take more days? And how many did you already have? Yes, sure, I mean you know the best if you are manic or not. I would observe it on your place, do now nothing, and see if it disappears or goes worse.

 

Sorry for a late reply, I haven't been at home. I've experienced it maybe 3 times so far, and everytime they seem to last at least one day. Sometimes 3 days. Right now I'm not sure what's going on, because I don't feel very manic but just relatively happy ever since I wrote here last time. I hope it'll last, but I don't have any expectations. 

Thank you for being someone I could share my thoughts with though, I think that's what I needed at the time!

Easy to feel alone and lost in this situation, because there is no one to relate to IRL.

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Martina23

But have you had such irrational thoughts like are typical for being manic that you could do everything on the world, that you could be for example president immediately, and you can not sleep and maybe at 4 o clock in the morning you decide to go to municipalities and are angry that they are not open, because why should they sleep :-)

 

If not and you are just happy then I would let it on your CNS to balance itself. I also sometimes feel very happy even without a cause, mostly after I was painting on the fresh air, it somewhat makes me happy. Maybe it is just naturally that you feel happy.

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Altostrata

Hello, Sunnyday.

 

I'm sorry we missed your posts in the other forums. I merged most of them here. Your Intro topic is a good place to ask why you are having particular symptoms.

 

What drugs and dosages are you taking now?

 

When you were taking antidepressants, how did they affect your sex drive?

 

 

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Sunnyday
18 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Hello, Sunnyday.

 

I'm sorry we missed your posts in the other forums. I merged most of them here. Your Intro topic is a good place to ask why you are having particular symptoms.

 

What drugs and dosages are you taking now?

 

When you were taking antidepressants, how did they affect your sex drive?

 

 

Hi, and thank you. No worries, I felt many of my posts were kind of all over the place anyway.

 

I'm not taking any prescribed drugs now, I just realized I needed to update my signature when you asked, so I've done that now.

Something that might be worth mentioning is that on december 13th I started taking cbd oil (without THC, so it doesn't make me high or anything). I felt it was worth a try, and unless it's something else that has caused it, I do feel that my emotions are a lot easier to manage now. For the record it is legal here, right now at least.

 

When I started taking my antidepressants I was pretty young, under 18. And years before that I was so depressed anyway so whether it was because of age or depression, or both, my sex drive wasn't very strong to begin with. But even during the time that the antidepressants made my depression better temporarily, I didn't have much of a sex drive.

Now months after quitting them (the Escitalopram especially), I do feel a big difference. I wasn't sure if it was a good thing though, because it has been most obvious during my ''manic'' periods, or whatever I should call them. I'm not sure what they are.

 

Also want to say that today I'm having a relatively good day after a week of very bad days, and I'm very thankful for that. Can't seem to notice any patterns though.

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Altostrata

I think your poor nervous system and hormonal systems are still getting adjusted after so many years of being suppressed.

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Sunnyday

Thank you for the response Altrostrata, that makes sense. Sometimes I take a long time to respond (because of self loathing and I end up feeling stupid for no reason as soon as I try to interact with others), so I apologize for that.

Thought I'd just give a small ''update'' (even if just for myself to look at later). I feel very scared in general. Not for any reason or because of any thoughts that scare me, just the feeling of being scared. Small incidents and just sounds can make me feel very shaken as well. I try to meditate, but sometimes I get the impression not much is changing, probably because it happens so slowly.

 

I think at this point I can also say with certainty that I have lost a friend that was one of my most important relationships, and I blame myself because you always have a responsibilty (more or less), but also the medication that created all this chaos. 

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Gridley

Hello, Sunnyday,

 

Sorry about your losing your friend.  We are not ourselves on these drugs and even less so when we are in withdrawal. You might want to re-read the link on neuroemotions that you read earlier.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/14397-neuro-emotions/

 

Let me make two other suggestions that might help ease withdrawal for you.  I know you wrote that you have difficulty with meditation, but many members are found relief from some of the techniques described in these two links:

 

 
We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. 
 
Best, 
Gridley

 

 
 

 

 

 

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Sunnyday

Gridley: Thank you for the links and for caring. I often come back to the link about neuro-emotions just to remind myself. I can handle my emotions a lot better now than 6 months ago though, which is worth a lot. 

 

The meditation is going pretty well now when I do it and it helps  temporarily, just the over all change is very subtle, and stagnant almost. Yesterday was a very bad day when I made that post, life felt very ''dark''. 

 

I'm taking omega 3 and magnesium, it probably helps but without me noticing anything drastic.

 

Losing the friend was something that was happening over a period of time, maybe kind of intentionally from my part, pushing people away when I don't think I'm handling relationships well at the moment. 

It feels very sad obviously, but I'm thinking it's for the best.

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Sunnyday

Thought I'd give another update, just for the sake of updating but also for giving information about how the WD is affecting me. I don't want anyone to feel obligated to answer everytime I write here, since it's not necessarily needed everytime and I don't contribute much to other threads so I don't want it to seem like it's a one sided thing (hope it makes sense).

 

I've noticed that the feelings of euphoria I felt a while ago, the ones that felt fake and almost ''synthetic'', has started to show again but in opposite direction (depression). It's very distinct in the sense that it doesn't feel right, compared to the more natural waves of depression. I can get extremely sudden waves of it, just like with the euphoria and with the exact same sensation that it almost doesn't feel natural or makes sense. It's like I can tell that there is another genuine mood/feeling underneath this shallow and fake feeling(?). Not sure how else to put it. It's a very unique experience, which made me come to the conclusion that it most likely is a symptom of the WD.

The problem with the waves of depression is obviously that it's a lot more destructive and also harder to get some sort of control over, compared to euphoria/excitement.

 

The second thing is that I've developed extreme tics in a certain part of my body. Makes it very hard to sleep and even relax sometimes. Lack of sleep and stress makes it a lot worse too. Not sure if this is common or not, but I thought I would mention it.

Purchased some epsom salt today, thought I would try and see if that might help.

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ChessieCat

Hi SunnyDay thanks for updating.

 

 It would be good if you would simplify and update your signature.  This is the preferred format.  Thank you.

 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

  • Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
  • A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
  • Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
  • Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
  • Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
  • Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

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Sunnyday

Hi, I've updated my signature to the best of my ability, some dates aren't exact at all unfortunately, because I don't know exactly when it was.

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PoetJester

Hi Sunnyday

 

be a little careful with the epsom salts.  not everyone tolerates the magnesium bath well.  i ended up in the emergency room after taking an epsom salt bath to see if it would help with my wd sleep problems.  my limbs felt like they were made of lead when i got out of the bath.  i got extremely tired and my body was so heavy i knew i wouldn't wake up if i laid down.  i had to take a cab to the hospital.  it took hours for the effect to wear off.   i have read of this happening to other people occasionally also.  

 

Poetjester

 

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Sunnyday

Hi PoetJester, I had no idea of that risk. Thank you for the warning. And sorry to hear that it happened to you, sounds horrible. Would it be best to try as little as possible  you think, and then maybe increase the dose little by little every time? Or what would be the best way to go about it in your opinion.

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ChessieCat

Here is the topic on Magnesium which is aka epsom salts (Magnesium sulfate).

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Sunnyday
4 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Here is the topic on Magnesium which is aka epsom salts (Magnesium sulfate).

Thank you!

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Sunnyday

Thought I would update. Tried the epsom salts, very little to start with but didn't need much to feel a difference. It seems to help temporarily against the tics in my hands and feet, which is worth a lot. 

Having severe anxiety the last few days, not sure why it came so suddenly. Can't seem to get any help from the things that usually helps me, for example comedy and meditation. Will try to do some yoga, finding it too difficult to go outside for walks (social anxiety).

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Miracle123

Hi Sunnyday, since last year Dec 2017 you are just off of your lexapro. Withdrawal symptoms will coming like a roller coaster got up and down. Its normal in between window and waves pattern with extreme and intense anxiety and panic attack even though you are at claiming stage. I faced same like you when hit with anxiety with the heart pounding so bad i couldnt claimed myself even i try to keep busy to distracted everything or just walk outside to take fresh air. Our nerves system already mess up and need to rewire again but need long time to healed. Believe yourself will healing and other members stories here. Please read other members succesfull stories especially Aeroman, he already off Lexapro about 10 yrs and 100% more back to normal.I used magnesium citrate to help me lower my heart pouding to turn down a bit my anxiety and for sleeping as well.Beside at night i will drink some chamomile tea occasionally if i really needed for mind racing and sleeping. But becareful the supplements and food you take because some can really trigger your withdrawals flare up. Please take note if you cannot eat or vitamins will made you more sensitive trying small dose to see your body reaction. I already took magnesium citrate for over 7 months it work great for me but over time my body in the stage over sensitived i couldn't take a new refill bottled of my magnesium citrate anymore.i also so curious about this? This also same for epsom salt bath too.So always listen to your body and dont force yourself .Acceptances,  Time and Patience is a key of recovery . I hope you will getting more improvement and better coming over months. I hope you well and take good care.

 

Warmest regards,

Miracle.

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Sunnyday

Hi Miracle. Thank you for the reminder, I know it can be tough for a long while, sometimes it's just so sudden and strong that you start to ask yourself if something is more wrong than it should be, you know? But I know that's probably not the case. It's a little better today, which is a relief.

 

I will read Aeroman's success story, thank you for the suggestion. I often come to this site when I need some kind of reassuring or ''consoling''. It's a life saver some days. Thank you for caring, hope you're doing okay as well!

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Sunnyday

Hello again. I was searching the forum but couldn't find specifically what I was looking for, so I have a question if anyone knows.

 

Is it very risky to drink alcohol during WD?

I tend to drink between 1-3 glasses of wine maybe 4-5 times a week during my waves (my waves are pretty frequent still), but then I take breaks that are ca 3-4 weeks long a little now and then to make sure I'm not dependent on it.

I've read alcohol craving is a common WD symptom, so I understand it can be risky in that sense. But with breaks worth several weeks at a time, should I be okay?

 

Maybe most importantly, could it prolong my WD?  I've never had issues with hangovers, and during the WD I still don't, surprisingly enough. I don't feel that my anxiety is worse the days after I drink either, and during my worst evenings it is an extreme relief, especially to be able to communicate with some friends and not lose all of them. I feel ten times worse after a full night of anxiety than after a night of alcohol, if I put it that way (many times it's like a night of anxiety follows me into the next morning in the shape of extreme exhaustion and tension).

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Miracle123

Hi sunnyday, wine and alcohol is dangerous and will make your withdrawal even worse and more suffering because will effect our whole body. I hope inside you can get your answer. Take care. 

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Sunnyday

Thank you very much for the link Miracle. So far very interesting to read, makes me realize a little more the risk that comes with it.

 

In any case I have been reading earlier today about drinking recommendations per week and realized I was drinking too much, so I will minimize my drinking by a lot.  So far no strong dependence on it (I think?), so shouldn't be an issue hopefully.

 

It does feel slightly sad in a way, because it helps me stay in touch with friends. I have a very hard time socializing during my waves while I'm 100% sober, many days I find it impossible. So I guess in a sense I have been dependent on it.

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Miracle123

Hi Sunnyday, i really understand hang out with friends can really help a lots to distract your moody emotional which is good but trying not to drink alcohol during withdrawal and recovery period. During this time try to limit your intake because i might worries will effect your healing process. Its depend on individuals but for me i never took a wine for almost a year like i always used to drink with hubby or friends (1 to 2 glasses only twice per week)

Me too...i have a very hard time to going out with friends..dislike to going out at all , no social life and like a zombie stay at home alone just lay on bed watch tv and see forums. Maybe u can choose drink same healthy fruits better than take alcohol during these periods for temporary. Take care.

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