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InNeedOfHope

Counting beads in a capsule versus weighing

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InNeedOfHope

 

 

Funnels:  a member has posted the funnels they use to fill their capsules

 

Link:  If you are using capsules which contain evenly sized beads you could try this method:

 

slys-method-for-measuring-beads-of-the-same-size-instead-of-counting-them

__________________________________

 

I am counting beads, but notice that sometimes the grains differ. I try to make sure I don't take out big or tiny ones. Are scales necessary. I have seen some but with postage they are $50 as they are not available in the UK, so I would have to wait on delivery too. Can some people be this sensitive? Should weighing make any difference? Thank you

 

Edited by ChessieCat
Added link

Sept 2010 - Citalopram 1 day

Sept 2010 - Zopliclone for ten weeks (paranoia ended a couple of months after coming off this and sleep settled down again until the last couple of months)

Ocober 2010 - Cymbalta 30mg

November 2010 - Cymbalta 60mg

February 2011 - 60mg to 30 mg (lasted 10 days)reinstated 60mg

March 2011 - Took 2 60mg tablets on one evening in error - paralysis of face, back of head, shoulder, stabbing in right kidney, lost 30% of hearing)

March - June 2011 went down quickly 1mg a day until I got stuck at 25mg, went up to 27mg, because couldn't breath.

26th June - 26mg

3rd July - 25mg

17th July - 24mg

24th July - 23mg

7th Aug - began reducing by a bead every couple of days or so went well at first then hit a wall

24th October - now on 18.5mg. Since the kidney infection at start of September, have been in constant pain and anxiety, no let up. Given Ciprofloxacin.

8th Jan 2012 17.8mg (currently reducing 0.2mg a week)

8th Jan 2012 17.6mg last reduction was 6 days ago.

15th Jan 17.4mg

21st Jan 17.2mg

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Altostrata

InNeed, I believe you're extremely sensitive. An electronic digital jeweler's scale probably would be a good investment for you. You can find them on Amazon for about $30 US.

 

There's information about the scale here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/235-tapering-techniques/page__view__findpost__p__13379

 

Fef: Information about tapering Effexor and cutting up tablets: Tips for tapering off Effexor and Effexor XR (venlafaxine)


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Altostrata

Compounding pharmacies can do the weighing for you and repackage capsules into smaller doses.

 

For example, if you are taking 75mg Effexor XR and wish to reduce to 70mg, rather than counting out beads or weighing them yourself, you can ask your doctor to write a prescription for the compounding pharmacy to follow to make enough 70mg capsules for a month.

 

The compounding pharmacy will open up Effexor XR capsules, weigh out 70mg doses, and put them in new gelatin (or vegetarian, by request) capsules.

 

Contact your compounding pharmacy to see how they would want such instructions written in a prescription.

 

Note: It may be less expensive for you for the compounding pharmacy to open the larger 150mg Effexor XR capsules and repackage them into 70mg doses. Fewer capsules of the larger dosage will be used. The size of the beads doesn't matter -- they'll be weighed.

 

Check with the compounding pharmacy to see how you will be charged for this.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Altostrata

See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1461-counting-beads-in-a-capsule-versus-weighing/

 

In Effexor XR, I believe the filler is combined with the drug inside each bead. The capsules are filled by weight; this wouldn't make sense unless there was a consistent ratio of filler to drug in each capsule.

 

The beads vary slightly in size, that's what causes the dosage variation while counting beads. If you are sensitive to this variation, weighing with a digital scale will be more exact.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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peggy

Hi Caro

 

I too plan on getting a digital scale - not sure where from, will probably look on ebay. I must be a bit strange - i kind of enjoy the counting....the easiest way i found was to get a piece of black velvet, open the capsule and pour a line out - sometimes i felt like if someone was watching they would think i was about to sniff it up LOL. Then i get a butter knife and group them into five bead groups and scoop them into the capsule. That's how i worked out the numbers are different in each capsule - once i started counting IN rather than counting OUT.

 

I have a blank table printed out that i fill in the date and number of beads, I do a 3 week supply at a time and put them into an empty pill container. At the end of the 3 weeks i can decide whether i want to do another week on that dosage or proceed to the next decrease. I have started to think in terms of beads rather than dosage - i am now on 60 beads (which is somewhere between 15 and 17mg).

 

I think it is important to have at least 2 consistent weeks of feeling good after any withdrawal symptoms before going down to the next dosage.

 

If you are feeling at all fragile, please hold on 37.5mg for a while and make sure you are taking some 'me time' in your life - do some yoga and some exercise to get that heart rate up - all good stress busters. And be kind to yourself, you are doing great!


Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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peggy

If you are truly taking 37.5mg Effexor XR, you might be able to switch to regular Effexor, taken twice a day -- half a tablet (18.75mg) in the morning, half later. If this works, you could make a liquid from regular Effexor.

 

Unfortunately regular effexor tabs are no longer available in Australia :(


Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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jr1985

I noticed my Effexor XL capsules don't all weigh the same. The weight of the beads ranges from approx. 185 - 195 mg. why so much variation?

 

Does this mean a) the capsules contain slightly different doses, or B) every capsule contains 75mg Effexor, therefore, the capsules with more beads must contain less Effexor per bead? If this is the case, should I be weighing the total amount of beads in each capsule, then halving this to get approx 37.5mg, which is the dose I'm on currently? Right now I'm just weighing out 89mg beads.


2003-2011: Paroxetine,Citalopram,Effexor; Aug/Sept 2011: Effexor to Mirtazapine; Oct 2011: C/T Mirtazapine back to Effexor; Nov/Dec 2011: Fast Tapered Effexor - w/d hell; Feb 2012: Reinstated Effexor 37.5mg; June 2012: Dropped to 35.6mg; Jan 2016: Propranolol 2.5mg per day for general anxiety; Feb 2016: Finasteride 0.25mg per week to slow hair loss; 18th May - 8th June 2019: Started Vyvanse 7.5mg and increased by 7.5mg weekly to 30mg (lowest “therapeutic” dose for adults).; 21st June 2019 - 12th July: Cross tapered from venlafaxine brand Rodomel to Efexor (1/4 > 1/2 > 3/4 weekly before ditching Rodomel); 13th July 2019: Cut Vyvanse dose to 15mg; 15th July 2019: Akathisia returned after years of being free; 16th July 2019: Went back up to Vyvanse 30mg

Supplements: Omega-3, Vitamin D, Zinc, Phosphatidylserine 

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Altostrata

Wow, really? They vary that much when you weigh the beads outside of each capsule?

 

That is a question for the manufacturer. Could be they have a quality control error worthy of complaint to a central agency. Or, could be that variation is permitted -- but it does seem like a huge difference!


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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peggy

jr, that is pretty scary. When i told my Dr the difference in the number of beads in a capsule her immediate response was quality control..

 

I don't have any 75mg or 150mg capsules left, but it would be interesting if someone who did have some could weigh those and see if there is much variation. If there wasn't much variation in those capsules then maybe it would be worth using them - cheaper too - a 150mg capsule would last me about 8 days! When i look at it that way, i have come down a lot!


Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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jr1985

Wow, really? They vary that much when you weigh the beads outside of each capsule?

 

That is a question for the manufacturer. Could be they have a quality control error worthy of complaint to a central agency. Or, could be that variation is permitted -- but it does seem like a huge difference!

 

Yes, I just weighed the beads from a few capsules and found - 180mg, 195mg, 185mg, 190mg. It's a generic called "Rodomel XL".

 

If you take 180mg as 75mg active ingedient, which is what I've been doing, the dose varies from 75 - 82mg.

 

Do the manufacturers base the dose on the weight of the beads? If so, then each capsule must have slightly different doses, so I'm safe weighing out 89mg, as it will be the same dose each time. I think this must be true because I've read about a boy having problems tapering off Effexor. He was removing beads from each capsule every so often, but some days he had really bad withdrawal. He discovered it was because each capsule contained different amounts of beads, so he started counting them out, which seemed to solve his problem and he eventually got off.


2003-2011: Paroxetine,Citalopram,Effexor; Aug/Sept 2011: Effexor to Mirtazapine; Oct 2011: C/T Mirtazapine back to Effexor; Nov/Dec 2011: Fast Tapered Effexor - w/d hell; Feb 2012: Reinstated Effexor 37.5mg; June 2012: Dropped to 35.6mg; Jan 2016: Propranolol 2.5mg per day for general anxiety; Feb 2016: Finasteride 0.25mg per week to slow hair loss; 18th May - 8th June 2019: Started Vyvanse 7.5mg and increased by 7.5mg weekly to 30mg (lowest “therapeutic” dose for adults).; 21st June 2019 - 12th July: Cross tapered from venlafaxine brand Rodomel to Efexor (1/4 > 1/2 > 3/4 weekly before ditching Rodomel); 13th July 2019: Cut Vyvanse dose to 15mg; 15th July 2019: Akathisia returned after years of being free; 16th July 2019: Went back up to Vyvanse 30mg

Supplements: Omega-3, Vitamin D, Zinc, Phosphatidylserine 

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Skyler

Yes, I just weighed the beads from a few capsules and found - 180mg, 195mg, 185mg, 190mg. It's a generic called "Rodomel XL".

Alto, could this be the 20% variance that is allowed by law.. between the amounts in individual capsules??

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Altostrata

 

Yes, I just weighed the beads from a few capsules and found - 180mg, 195mg, 185mg, 190mg. It's a generic called "Rodomel XL".

Alto, could this be the 20% variance that is allowed by law.. between the amounts in individual capsules??

 

I have a hard time believing this amount of variance is permitted by law. Most likely the generic manufacturer is out of compliance.

 

The capsules are filled by weight.

 

Good thing you're weighing the beads, jr, well done!


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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jr1985

I've been preparing my capsules a little differently this week, as I believe it's a more accurate way to do it. It's a 3 step process -

 

1) Weigh out ~90mg beads (roughly 37.5mg Effexor)

 

2) Count those beads, ensuring I have 149 (add/remove beads as necessary)

 

3) Weigh them again, adding/removing beads to get 89mg

 

I do It this way because 149 beads weighs around 88-91mg (varies due to slight variation in bead size), which means I just have to add/remove 1-3 beads to get the correct dose. If the scales want me to add/remove much more than that, then I'll know something is off. I also found calibrating the scale before weighing each set of beads really helps.


2003-2011: Paroxetine,Citalopram,Effexor; Aug/Sept 2011: Effexor to Mirtazapine; Oct 2011: C/T Mirtazapine back to Effexor; Nov/Dec 2011: Fast Tapered Effexor - w/d hell; Feb 2012: Reinstated Effexor 37.5mg; June 2012: Dropped to 35.6mg; Jan 2016: Propranolol 2.5mg per day for general anxiety; Feb 2016: Finasteride 0.25mg per week to slow hair loss; 18th May - 8th June 2019: Started Vyvanse 7.5mg and increased by 7.5mg weekly to 30mg (lowest “therapeutic” dose for adults).; 21st June 2019 - 12th July: Cross tapered from venlafaxine brand Rodomel to Efexor (1/4 > 1/2 > 3/4 weekly before ditching Rodomel); 13th July 2019: Cut Vyvanse dose to 15mg; 15th July 2019: Akathisia returned after years of being free; 16th July 2019: Went back up to Vyvanse 30mg

Supplements: Omega-3, Vitamin D, Zinc, Phosphatidylserine 

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Skyler

I've been preparing my capsules a little differently this week, as I believe it's a more accurate way to do it. It's a 3 step process -

 

1) Weigh out ~90mg beads (roughly 37.5mg Effexor)

 

2) Count those beads, ensuring I have 149 (add/remove beads as necessary)

 

3) Weigh them again, adding/removing beads to get 89mg

 

I do It this way because 149 beads weighs around 88-91mg (varies due to slight variation in bead size), which means I just have to add/remove 1-3 beads to get the correct dose. If the scales want me to add/remove much more than that, then I'll know something is off. I also found calibrating the scale before weighing each set of beads really helps.

 

That sounds right on to me jr.. given my sensitivity to slight changes in Lyrica, I think you are right on. The amount of variance you had with your previous system would have kept me in WD too. I hope you find this helps, but it may take a few weeks for you to find out.. at least that is how long it takes for slight changes to make a difference on this end.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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aberdeen

I had issues switching to generic from brand name and my dr agreed that there is a wide margin allowed for "error"...meaning a good percentage of your pill might just be inactive fillers. I noticed, when I switched from one type of venlafaxine to another that the white beads were coming out in the toilet, undigested at all!!!!! The pharmacists will deny this, but my dr didn't deny it, he is as disgusted by the drug companies as his patients are.


2 Timothy 1-7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Effexor 75mg to 262.5mg 2005-2010 for post partum depression

Started having poop out mid 2010, also switched generic brands, then crashed in Dec 2010 (anxiety/ "terror", intense DR, anhedonia, suicidal ideation, chills, insomnia, horrible intrusive thoughts, disorientation, ect)
Rapid "tapered" from 262.5mg Effexor in 3 months

Tried Celexa,Cipralex, then Paxil to deal with wd(this switching made things worse and added akathesia)

Found online support and started tapering Paxil 7 months after quitting Effexor (at this point was having small windows).

Paxil taper: dropped 10% every 4-8 weeks

Year 1 October 2011 to Nov 2012 20mg to 10mg

Year 2 March 2013 to Feb 2014 10mg to 4mg

Year 3 April 2014 to May 2015 4mg to 1.1mg

Year 4 June 2015 1.1mg , dropping by 10% until .5mg, after then dropped by 0.1mg every 5 weeks until 0.1mg.

Finished! Official last dose of 0.1mg on June 15/16

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Altostrata

Given the recall of Teva generic Wellbutrin XL, it's clear the generic makers might have quality control issues. There have been similar recalls for psychiatric drugs from the major pharma companies, too.

 

It is a disgusting situation.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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aberdeen

Given the recall of Teva generic Wellbutrin XL, it's clear the generic makers might have quality control issues. There have been similar recalls for psychiatric drugs from the major pharma companies, too.

 

It is a disgusting situation.

 

 

Wow...it was when I switched from Novo Venlafaxine to Teva Venlafaxine that my horrors with Effexor truly began. I had switched from brand name and back without as much difficulty but it was this particular switch that started the ball rolling.It was never the same since. I never again reached stability and eventaully came off and the rest is history. However if none of that had happened, I may have stayed on these meds for years and never had the courage to attempt getting off them. I Really have had no choice, but maybe that's a blessing.


2 Timothy 1-7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Effexor 75mg to 262.5mg 2005-2010 for post partum depression

Started having poop out mid 2010, also switched generic brands, then crashed in Dec 2010 (anxiety/ "terror", intense DR, anhedonia, suicidal ideation, chills, insomnia, horrible intrusive thoughts, disorientation, ect)
Rapid "tapered" from 262.5mg Effexor in 3 months

Tried Celexa,Cipralex, then Paxil to deal with wd(this switching made things worse and added akathesia)

Found online support and started tapering Paxil 7 months after quitting Effexor (at this point was having small windows).

Paxil taper: dropped 10% every 4-8 weeks

Year 1 October 2011 to Nov 2012 20mg to 10mg

Year 2 March 2013 to Feb 2014 10mg to 4mg

Year 3 April 2014 to May 2015 4mg to 1.1mg

Year 4 June 2015 1.1mg , dropping by 10% until .5mg, after then dropped by 0.1mg every 5 weeks until 0.1mg.

Finished! Official last dose of 0.1mg on June 15/16

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peggy

so, the other day i came down to 54 beads from 60. I found the capsules had from 128 - 138 beads in them - so about a 10% variation. i don't think the difference in size of the beads is as big as the variation in the number of them.


Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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Altostrata

In the Effexor XR capsules you've been prescribed, approximately how many milligrams does 6 beads represent?

 

To calculate the milligrams, you will either have to weigh all the beads in a few capsules (without the capsule itself) and weigh 6 beads with a digital scale OR count the number of beads in a few capsules to get an average number of beads per capsule.

 

Then calculate using percentages how many milligrams 6 beads represent.

 

Once you find this out, you can convert to regular Effexor and make a liquid from it (take twice a day). This will enable you to make smaller decreases in dosage than reducing bead by bead. Each bead can be roughly 1mg; with a liquid, you can reduce by a fraction of a milligram.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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jr1985

I think I'm going to try the bead counting method from now on. My scales were showing 149 beads weighed ~89mg, but over the last few weeks they've been drifting upwards to 92-95mg. I bought the scales recommended here (AWS Gemini-20) and I'm still having problems, e.g 149 beads weighed 82mg, then the same beads weighed 89mg after re-weighing, and I didn't do anything different! I've tried using the 10g weight but it didn't make any difference.

 

Hopefully there's less variation in bead size compared to the amount of variation caused by the scales. They do look roughly the same size.


2003-2011: Paroxetine,Citalopram,Effexor; Aug/Sept 2011: Effexor to Mirtazapine; Oct 2011: C/T Mirtazapine back to Effexor; Nov/Dec 2011: Fast Tapered Effexor - w/d hell; Feb 2012: Reinstated Effexor 37.5mg; June 2012: Dropped to 35.6mg; Jan 2016: Propranolol 2.5mg per day for general anxiety; Feb 2016: Finasteride 0.25mg per week to slow hair loss; 18th May - 8th June 2019: Started Vyvanse 7.5mg and increased by 7.5mg weekly to 30mg (lowest “therapeutic” dose for adults).; 21st June 2019 - 12th July: Cross tapered from venlafaxine brand Rodomel to Efexor (1/4 > 1/2 > 3/4 weekly before ditching Rodomel); 13th July 2019: Cut Vyvanse dose to 15mg; 15th July 2019: Akathisia returned after years of being free; 16th July 2019: Went back up to Vyvanse 30mg

Supplements: Omega-3, Vitamin D, Zinc, Phosphatidylserine 

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mammaP

I am down to the last 4 beads. There are 400 beads in my 75 mg capsules so that is a teeny dose. I feel ready for my next drop

but to reduce 1 bead will be 25% reduction. Last time I went down to 3 I had to go back up to 4 because of withdrawal. At the time

I was under stress which didn't help.   I tried the liquid and had to go back to beads because of allergic reaction to something in

the medicine.  I am reluctant to try making a liquid from tablets because that will mean a change of brand and I am so sensitive

I'm afraid that will affect me too. 

 

I read about some people on lower doses have alternated doses....ie, 3 beads one day and 4 beads the next.  Is that something

worth trying, or will that be as bad as skipping doses? I managed to crush a bead and wonder about doing that so I can drop 1/2 a bead

 they are extended release so would that be a good idea or a disaster?  I have been feeling stable but don't want to rock the boat too much! 


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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Altostrata

When you're down to a few beads, you don't have a lot of options. I guess you could try the 3 beads one day, 4 beads the next method.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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mammaP

Thank you Alto, I've started the 3/4 alternate days and will see how it goes.

Last time I went from 4 to 3 I had to go back to 4 so hopefully this will go ok. 


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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mammaP

I have finished my effexor taper and want to share my method for tapering the last few beads. When I was at 4 beads I couldn't get down to 3 without withdrawal, tried alternating 3 one day 4 the next but still had withdrawal. I cut to 3 and had to updose again, and thought I would never get off those 4 beads.

 

 Then started this......I took the LARGEST 4 beads from the capsule each day. I tipped the beads out into a little box so I could find the biggest ones with a magnifying glass and pair of tweezers.  When I got to 4 of the smallest  ones I went to 3, Did the same again taking 3 of the largest beads. It is still tapering as the dose is getting smaller as the beads get smaller. At 2 beads I took 2 big ones until down to the small ones, then dropped to 1 bead. Stayed at 1 bead for a few months then quit.  All together it took 2 years to go from 4 beads to zero, the last year was as described. It is 4 months since stopping and no effexor withdrawal to speak of, a little tingling and numbness, and insomnia which is a problem for me anyway so not blaming effexor withdrawal. 

 

I feel like my brain is even clearer and it is amazing how many side effects  just one bead can cause! I didn't rush the last leg because it is the hardest, rush and end up updosing again. It just isn't worth it! 


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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ktp

weight of beads seems to vary by manufacturer.  With TEVA manufactured Effexor XR caps, the beads are approximately 1mg each, which makes for pretty easy counting.  

 

don't trust me, check it yourself: a 37.5 mg capsule contains anywhere from 36 to 38 beads.  

Most beads are identical, with an occasional tiny or huge bead.

don't trust that, either: count several capsules to convince yourself.

 

my whole story is in my sig; you may be able to see that effective 7/31 I'm removing 4 beads from 37.5 and calling it 33.


20090810 Dx GeneralAnxietyDisorder & PanicDisorder.  Rx Pristiq (desvenlafaxine) 50mg.  stable, side effects minor but blurry vision, impotence, others. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5418-ktp-weaning-from-4yrs-50mg-pristiq/ for more details.

20140210 switch Pristiq50mg (can't cut them!) to Effexor (venlafaxine, V) same drug but easier dose reduction (and mfr TEVA's beads are handily ~= 1mg ea).  20140218 125mgV  0309 112mg 0401:100mg, 410:75, 0506:70, 0512:65, 0525:56, 0614:37.5, 0620:30, 0624:27, 0630:26, 0706:24, 0724:22, 0801:20, 0804:19, 0808:18, 0813:17, 0818:16, 0819:15, 0821:13, 0903:12, 0911:11, 0918:10, 0921:9, 0927:8, 1001:6, 1021:5, missed a day?, darn, it was going so well, or so I thought.  SEVERE ANXIETY, INSOMNIA. WAY TOO QUICK REDUCTIONS! hindsight: 0813:5%/5days, 0818:6%/5days, 0819:6%/1day, 0821:13%/2days, 0903: 7%/14days, 0911:8%/8days, 0918:9%/7days; 0921:10%/3days, 0927:11%/6days, 1001:25%/3days (still okay!) 1021:16%20days.  guideline is 10%/30days =  i am a self-diagnosed idiot

20141103 back to 6mgV, xanax next several days. 1111 insomnia bad, 10mgAmbien slept well. 1112 8mgV no Ambien; miserable. 1113 Ambien+xanax, tough night. 1114 Very Tired. 0.125Xanax, 25mgV at 10, better 10min later. 20141115 37.5mg V +Ambien. miserable month, still insomnia & anxiety. 1214 upped to 75mg V, ate .125Xanax. 1215 37.5mg mornings; force sleep for one week and come back". 20150115 lots of appts lots of chat but we never get to MY agenda = meds discussion.  Upping to 47.5mg mornings (no more xanax-, lunesta-forced sleep) but still anxious.  PAYING BIGTIME FOR TOO-FAST WEANING in OCTOBER 2014!  20150220 50mg V. 20150330 still anxy each am let's try reducing: 45mg V 1/day mornings. 20150511:42mg, 0611:40, 0626:39, 0710:38, 0717:37, 0731:33, 0813:32, 0915:29, 0927:28, 1004:27, 1015:26, 1101:25, 1116:22mg/day.  Still anxiety every morning, this sucks.  20151124 found a shrink who seems to get weaning: 20151125 add 10mg/day Prozac aka fluoxetine F, continue taper V to zero, then taper the F, "easier".  20151203:10mg Prozac=P 19mg V, 1213:10mgP17mgV, daily anx quieter but lurking. 1227:10mgP15mgV, 20160108:10mgP14mgV, 0124:10P13V, 0131:P10,V12. 0215 P10,V11.  0223:P10V10.  0314:P10V9. enjoying relatively quiet brain.  0407 P10V8, 0427P10V7, 0517P10V6, 0611P10V5, 0706P10V4, 0818P10V3, 0921P10V2,  1021P10V1, 20161128Prozac10mgVenlafaxineZERO,

20170115 still anxious upped Prozac to 20mg/day, better anxiety control... 

20190301 finally stable enough to consider weaning again, started skipping one day / week.

20190501 started skipping every 3rd day so 13.3mg/day average.  several days long 1/2life must be why the docs think of prozac as 'self-tapering' i think it just means longer time between upsetting the cart and seeing apples all over the road.  skipping is bad practice, even with longlife prozac: let's do liquid: 20190902 first day of 13mg via 5ml liquid made from 13 20mg caps in 100ml water.  20190921 12mg same way(7.7%/20days).  20191010 11mg (8.3%/20days) 20191031 10mg (9.1%/20days) 20191124 9mg (10.0%/24 days) 20191213 8.5mg (5.6%/20 days) 20191231 8mg (5.9%/20days) 20200120 hit a wall?  going another 20 days at 8mg, just started Lisinopril for hypertension (caused by prozac withdrawal creating less-than-panic-grade anxiety) and doubled atorvastatin to 40mg.  Minimizing changes in general and had a semi-panic 4am 1/20... BP still wild. 20200208 back to 9mg daily anxiety starting about 1/18.  

20200212 increase to 10mg prozac cap daily.  anxiety still there but clears within hour of drugs.  20200222 still anxy 2 hrs after 10mg, added another 1mg and mucho better.  20200223 11mg early.  anxious enough to be glad i can actually sit.  will wait another 5 days before adding another milligram. 20200229 12mg prozac still anxious.  20200317 13mgProzac still anxious.  20200610 15mgProzac.  bp under control with Losartan50mg (lisinopril cough dictates change)  

20200721 "Parkinsonism" declared by neurologist my TD won't stop but it's largely left arm with symptoms that started 2005 after nerve pinch in neck, still feels like same thing to me.

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SquirrellyGirl

I have the Gemini 20 scale and have noticed problems with it.  I am tapering both venlafaxine and mirtazapine, though I am focusing on the latter right now.  I recently weighed out a batch of beads, put them in gel caps, and had taken them for a several days when I found myself having WD symptoms at night, sweating, burning sensations, fitful sleep.  My husband works in a lab and thought perhaps my last batch was off, so he took a 75 mg capsule to weigh at work.  Average bead weight was 2.7 mg (Teva brand, so different than the one mg ktp mentioned above.  I was aiming for 82% of my starting dose of 37.5 mg so figured about 31 beads.  When I went back to count how many beads were in the caps I had measured out, there about 35 beads!  So, I had updosed, it would seem, odd that that would cause the symptoms I was having, though they could be side effect symptoms of venlafaxine, yes?

 

Anyway, since I am also weighing out mirtazapine amounts, I calibrated the scale with the weights and weighed a full 30 mg tablet, which weighed 300 mg. Convenient, since I can recheck the calibration of the scale with one of these tablets.  I have found at times that the scale would under-weigh, even after calibration.  And the weighing isn't linear - 10 beads do not weigh one third of 30 beads, so the less you weigh, the less accurate the scale seems to get.  This will be a problem when I get down to the smallest amounts.  And yes, the beads vary in size.  What I did with my last batch was start by weighing a mirt cap first to make sure it was reading 300 mg, and then weigh 30 beads to get 80 mg gross (80% of my starting dose).  If I got 83 mg, I'd swap out a bigger bead for a smaller one to get 80 mg.  This is all tapping into my OCD quite nicely!


Started ADs back around 1995 after bad break-up, starting with Prozac.  Switched to Wellbutrin, and then to Effexor in 2002
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Extreme emotions, poor concentration as I stepped back down, didn't connect the dots!
Summer 2014 reduced to 0 very quickly, was sick of anhedonia/sexual dysfunction due to meds, depression never controlled if not worse. Didn't recognize WD since symptoms built slowly (thought I had ADD! and menopausal on top of it), starting with severe sweats, very bad cog-fog and memory issues, culminating in weight loss, severe anxiety and depression, panic, severe apathy and insomnia by eight months off.  Saw p-doc who put me on Remeron, increased from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly though able to sleep.

June 1. 2015 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  Joined SA and began on advice of friend who recognized it was WD all along! Began tapering in July 2015.

Been tapering both meds ever since, focusing on one more than the other or doing no more than 5% of each per month.

12 mg Effexor and 5.8 mg Remeron (mirtazapine SolTabs to make a solution with OraPlus) as of 5/4/2017 

Update 3/14/18: 2.9 mg Remeron and 6 mg Effexor; 6/10/18:  2.6 mg Remeron and 4.9 mg Effexor

 

My intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9313-squirrellygirl-effexor-withdrawal-etc/page-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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ktp

Could be problems with your scale I guess.

Regarding Teva's Venlafaxine XR, it doesn't matter how much the beads actually weigh - what matters is that there are approximately 75 consistently sized beads in a 75mg dose, which leaves each bead responsible to deliver 1 mg. Have to figure there are inert ingredients in each bead!


20090810 Dx GeneralAnxietyDisorder & PanicDisorder.  Rx Pristiq (desvenlafaxine) 50mg.  stable, side effects minor but blurry vision, impotence, others. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5418-ktp-weaning-from-4yrs-50mg-pristiq/ for more details.

20140210 switch Pristiq50mg (can't cut them!) to Effexor (venlafaxine, V) same drug but easier dose reduction (and mfr TEVA's beads are handily ~= 1mg ea).  20140218 125mgV  0309 112mg 0401:100mg, 410:75, 0506:70, 0512:65, 0525:56, 0614:37.5, 0620:30, 0624:27, 0630:26, 0706:24, 0724:22, 0801:20, 0804:19, 0808:18, 0813:17, 0818:16, 0819:15, 0821:13, 0903:12, 0911:11, 0918:10, 0921:9, 0927:8, 1001:6, 1021:5, missed a day?, darn, it was going so well, or so I thought.  SEVERE ANXIETY, INSOMNIA. WAY TOO QUICK REDUCTIONS! hindsight: 0813:5%/5days, 0818:6%/5days, 0819:6%/1day, 0821:13%/2days, 0903: 7%/14days, 0911:8%/8days, 0918:9%/7days; 0921:10%/3days, 0927:11%/6days, 1001:25%/3days (still okay!) 1021:16%20days.  guideline is 10%/30days =  i am a self-diagnosed idiot

20141103 back to 6mgV, xanax next several days. 1111 insomnia bad, 10mgAmbien slept well. 1112 8mgV no Ambien; miserable. 1113 Ambien+xanax, tough night. 1114 Very Tired. 0.125Xanax, 25mgV at 10, better 10min later. 20141115 37.5mg V +Ambien. miserable month, still insomnia & anxiety. 1214 upped to 75mg V, ate .125Xanax. 1215 37.5mg mornings; force sleep for one week and come back". 20150115 lots of appts lots of chat but we never get to MY agenda = meds discussion.  Upping to 47.5mg mornings (no more xanax-, lunesta-forced sleep) but still anxious.  PAYING BIGTIME FOR TOO-FAST WEANING in OCTOBER 2014!  20150220 50mg V. 20150330 still anxy each am let's try reducing: 45mg V 1/day mornings. 20150511:42mg, 0611:40, 0626:39, 0710:38, 0717:37, 0731:33, 0813:32, 0915:29, 0927:28, 1004:27, 1015:26, 1101:25, 1116:22mg/day.  Still anxiety every morning, this sucks.  20151124 found a shrink who seems to get weaning: 20151125 add 10mg/day Prozac aka fluoxetine F, continue taper V to zero, then taper the F, "easier".  20151203:10mg Prozac=P 19mg V, 1213:10mgP17mgV, daily anx quieter but lurking. 1227:10mgP15mgV, 20160108:10mgP14mgV, 0124:10P13V, 0131:P10,V12. 0215 P10,V11.  0223:P10V10.  0314:P10V9. enjoying relatively quiet brain.  0407 P10V8, 0427P10V7, 0517P10V6, 0611P10V5, 0706P10V4, 0818P10V3, 0921P10V2,  1021P10V1, 20161128Prozac10mgVenlafaxineZERO,

20170115 still anxious upped Prozac to 20mg/day, better anxiety control... 

20190301 finally stable enough to consider weaning again, started skipping one day / week.

20190501 started skipping every 3rd day so 13.3mg/day average.  several days long 1/2life must be why the docs think of prozac as 'self-tapering' i think it just means longer time between upsetting the cart and seeing apples all over the road.  skipping is bad practice, even with longlife prozac: let's do liquid: 20190902 first day of 13mg via 5ml liquid made from 13 20mg caps in 100ml water.  20190921 12mg same way(7.7%/20days).  20191010 11mg (8.3%/20days) 20191031 10mg (9.1%/20days) 20191124 9mg (10.0%/24 days) 20191213 8.5mg (5.6%/20 days) 20191231 8mg (5.9%/20days) 20200120 hit a wall?  going another 20 days at 8mg, just started Lisinopril for hypertension (caused by prozac withdrawal creating less-than-panic-grade anxiety) and doubled atorvastatin to 40mg.  Minimizing changes in general and had a semi-panic 4am 1/20... BP still wild. 20200208 back to 9mg daily anxiety starting about 1/18.  

20200212 increase to 10mg prozac cap daily.  anxiety still there but clears within hour of drugs.  20200222 still anxy 2 hrs after 10mg, added another 1mg and mucho better.  20200223 11mg early.  anxious enough to be glad i can actually sit.  will wait another 5 days before adding another milligram. 20200229 12mg prozac still anxious.  20200317 13mgProzac still anxious.  20200610 15mgProzac.  bp under control with Losartan50mg (lisinopril cough dictates change)  

20200721 "Parkinsonism" declared by neurologist my TD won't stop but it's largely left arm with symptoms that started 2005 after nerve pinch in neck, still feels like same thing to me.

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SquirrellyGirl

Oops, didn't check this after I wrote about the scale.  I am tapering the Mirt because I was gaining weight and it quit working which is why my doc added back the venlafaxine.  I had gone off of it last year, much too fast, and simply didn't make the connection that all the problems I was having were due to venlafaxine WD - I thought I had ADD and severe menopausal symptoms!  

 

So far, this is working out ok, to work on the mirtazapine primarily.  I will drop a bead of venlafaxine every few weeks, but at this point that is about a 3% cut.  Sleep has still been good.  I may get the mirtazapine down to a fairly low dose, say 7.5 mg, and hold that for awhile while I work on the venlafaxine more since hopefully the mirt will continue to help with sleep.  Insomnia was horrendous when I was unknowingly WDing from ven before, and I dread insomnia.  It seems that insomnia is something that probably most have problems with as they get off ADs.  I have also read WD stories of people coming off of mirt who had insomnia.

 

I've read that venlafaxine and mirtazapine are two of the hardest ones to get off of, so I know I have quite a journey ahead of me.


Started ADs back around 1995 after bad break-up, starting with Prozac.  Switched to Wellbutrin, and then to Effexor in 2002
Effexor XR 2002-2014 up to 225 mg at one point, down to 37.5 mg towards end but back up to 75 mg in 2014; now realize I had W/D as I dropped down, memory very poor about history.  Extreme emotions, poor concentration as I stepped back down, didn't connect the dots!
Summer 2014 reduced to 0 very quickly, was sick of anhedonia/sexual dysfunction due to meds, depression never controlled if not worse. Didn't recognize WD since symptoms built slowly (thought I had ADD! and menopausal on top of it), starting with severe sweats, very bad cog-fog and memory issues, culminating in weight loss, severe anxiety and depression, panic, severe apathy and insomnia by eight months off.  Saw p-doc who put me on Remeron, increased from 7.5 mg/day to 37.5 mg by May 22, 2015; still doing very badly though able to sleep.

June 1. 2015 Reinstated Effexor XR 37.5 mg, Remeron dropped to 30 mg PM. Immediate relief of symptoms, like nothing had ever happened!  Joined SA and began on advice of friend who recognized it was WD all along! Began tapering in July 2015.

Been tapering both meds ever since, focusing on one more than the other or doing no more than 5% of each per month.

12 mg Effexor and 5.8 mg Remeron (mirtazapine SolTabs to make a solution with OraPlus) as of 5/4/2017 

Update 3/14/18: 2.9 mg Remeron and 6 mg Effexor; 6/10/18:  2.6 mg Remeron and 4.9 mg Effexor

 

My intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9313-squirrellygirl-effexor-withdrawal-etc/page-2#entry196679

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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peggy

i used to count beads, but now weigh.  As i get lower, the inconsistencies in the number of beads and sizes make it too difficult.  I have the scale mentioned above, but the capsules vary slightly - between 123 - 128mg per 37.5mg capsule.  I can live with that better than the variation in the number of beads - 118 - 140.


Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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ktp

Can you ask for a different manufacturer? I've found TEVA caps of venlafaxine xr all sizes have pretty consistently one bead per mg.


20090810 Dx GeneralAnxietyDisorder & PanicDisorder.  Rx Pristiq (desvenlafaxine) 50mg.  stable, side effects minor but blurry vision, impotence, others. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5418-ktp-weaning-from-4yrs-50mg-pristiq/ for more details.

20140210 switch Pristiq50mg (can't cut them!) to Effexor (venlafaxine, V) same drug but easier dose reduction (and mfr TEVA's beads are handily ~= 1mg ea).  20140218 125mgV  0309 112mg 0401:100mg, 410:75, 0506:70, 0512:65, 0525:56, 0614:37.5, 0620:30, 0624:27, 0630:26, 0706:24, 0724:22, 0801:20, 0804:19, 0808:18, 0813:17, 0818:16, 0819:15, 0821:13, 0903:12, 0911:11, 0918:10, 0921:9, 0927:8, 1001:6, 1021:5, missed a day?, darn, it was going so well, or so I thought.  SEVERE ANXIETY, INSOMNIA. WAY TOO QUICK REDUCTIONS! hindsight: 0813:5%/5days, 0818:6%/5days, 0819:6%/1day, 0821:13%/2days, 0903: 7%/14days, 0911:8%/8days, 0918:9%/7days; 0921:10%/3days, 0927:11%/6days, 1001:25%/3days (still okay!) 1021:16%20days.  guideline is 10%/30days =  i am a self-diagnosed idiot

20141103 back to 6mgV, xanax next several days. 1111 insomnia bad, 10mgAmbien slept well. 1112 8mgV no Ambien; miserable. 1113 Ambien+xanax, tough night. 1114 Very Tired. 0.125Xanax, 25mgV at 10, better 10min later. 20141115 37.5mg V +Ambien. miserable month, still insomnia & anxiety. 1214 upped to 75mg V, ate .125Xanax. 1215 37.5mg mornings; force sleep for one week and come back". 20150115 lots of appts lots of chat but we never get to MY agenda = meds discussion.  Upping to 47.5mg mornings (no more xanax-, lunesta-forced sleep) but still anxious.  PAYING BIGTIME FOR TOO-FAST WEANING in OCTOBER 2014!  20150220 50mg V. 20150330 still anxy each am let's try reducing: 45mg V 1/day mornings. 20150511:42mg, 0611:40, 0626:39, 0710:38, 0717:37, 0731:33, 0813:32, 0915:29, 0927:28, 1004:27, 1015:26, 1101:25, 1116:22mg/day.  Still anxiety every morning, this sucks.  20151124 found a shrink who seems to get weaning: 20151125 add 10mg/day Prozac aka fluoxetine F, continue taper V to zero, then taper the F, "easier".  20151203:10mg Prozac=P 19mg V, 1213:10mgP17mgV, daily anx quieter but lurking. 1227:10mgP15mgV, 20160108:10mgP14mgV, 0124:10P13V, 0131:P10,V12. 0215 P10,V11.  0223:P10V10.  0314:P10V9. enjoying relatively quiet brain.  0407 P10V8, 0427P10V7, 0517P10V6, 0611P10V5, 0706P10V4, 0818P10V3, 0921P10V2,  1021P10V1, 20161128Prozac10mgVenlafaxineZERO,

20170115 still anxious upped Prozac to 20mg/day, better anxiety control... 

20190301 finally stable enough to consider weaning again, started skipping one day / week.

20190501 started skipping every 3rd day so 13.3mg/day average.  several days long 1/2life must be why the docs think of prozac as 'self-tapering' i think it just means longer time between upsetting the cart and seeing apples all over the road.  skipping is bad practice, even with longlife prozac: let's do liquid: 20190902 first day of 13mg via 5ml liquid made from 13 20mg caps in 100ml water.  20190921 12mg same way(7.7%/20days).  20191010 11mg (8.3%/20days) 20191031 10mg (9.1%/20days) 20191124 9mg (10.0%/24 days) 20191213 8.5mg (5.6%/20 days) 20191231 8mg (5.9%/20days) 20200120 hit a wall?  going another 20 days at 8mg, just started Lisinopril for hypertension (caused by prozac withdrawal creating less-than-panic-grade anxiety) and doubled atorvastatin to 40mg.  Minimizing changes in general and had a semi-panic 4am 1/20... BP still wild. 20200208 back to 9mg daily anxiety starting about 1/18.  

20200212 increase to 10mg prozac cap daily.  anxiety still there but clears within hour of drugs.  20200222 still anxy 2 hrs after 10mg, added another 1mg and mucho better.  20200223 11mg early.  anxious enough to be glad i can actually sit.  will wait another 5 days before adding another milligram. 20200229 12mg prozac still anxious.  20200317 13mgProzac still anxious.  20200610 15mgProzac.  bp under control with Losartan50mg (lisinopril cough dictates change)  

20200721 "Parkinsonism" declared by neurologist my TD won't stop but it's largely left arm with symptoms that started 2005 after nerve pinch in neck, still feels like same thing to me.

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shelbytrev

They said I have to give them my rx and they make their own formula? I'm confused as to how they can make their own formula. So I guess I'm back to counting beads. I thought they would take my medicine and open them and re weigh them to make smaller dosages ????


Panic attacks-Prozac 20mg 4 years

Effexor 75mg approx 9 years

Effexor to Zoloft 25 mg approx almost 2 weeks

Also used very low dose of Valium 1 mg sometimes 2x a day for anxiety for a month during medication changes.

Zoloft to Celexa 10 mg approx a week

Celexa to Prozac 10 mg for approx 5 weeks

Weaned off Prozac 10-5-2.5 mg

As of 1-8-2016 off everything

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ktp

compounding their own formula is what it's all about - you give them the drugs and they formulate your dosage.  Instead,

 

Do it yourself!  To do so easily, find a pharmacy that dispenses TEVA (manufacturer) CAPSULES (which contain beads!).  Walgreen's is good in California, dunno about others, i got lucky I guess.  

 

The nice thing about TEVA's capsules of Venlafaxine XR is that a 150mg capsule contains you guessed it 150 beads.  ditto a 37.5 contains 37.5 beads okay that's a joke.  some beads are a little big some are a little small but mostly they're quite consistent - count out any size capsule and it works out quite consistently.  It doesn't matter how much they really weigh, each TEVA bead delivers approximately one milligram of medicine.  if you find a tiny one call it the half mg, it works.

 

I'm still at 25mg/day; I use a small funnel and dump 25 beads into old Pristiq bottles labelled SMTWTFS, then count them again as I take them.  6 doses from a 150mg cap, and it comes out on the money every time so far!  

 

I haven't figured out how I'll approach splitting up less than one milligram, but probably will switch to instant release (IR) venlafaxine.  If you can't find consistent size beads, using IR may be your only way.  Using IR will mean >1 dose / day but i can live with that I think.  

I can't imagine achieving very good accuracy in trying to weigh single submilligram doses, there's just too much room for error.  Much easier to take some fraction of a known amount.  Probably the easiest way to do that will be to dissolve the IR tabs in water, then drink the correct amount of liquid.  That eliminates eyeballing little piles of dust or trying to weigh them.  Suppose your desired dose is 1/4 mg, you could crush and dissolve a 25mg tablet in 100ml of water, at which point 1ml of water (aka 1 cubic centimeter) will contain 0.25mg of meds.    

 

I sure hope I don't make the mistake of lowering my dose too quickly again; I'm still paying with daily anxiety ever since I screwed up in october 2014.  be careful, it's your brain on drugs!


20090810 Dx GeneralAnxietyDisorder & PanicDisorder.  Rx Pristiq (desvenlafaxine) 50mg.  stable, side effects minor but blurry vision, impotence, others. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5418-ktp-weaning-from-4yrs-50mg-pristiq/ for more details.

20140210 switch Pristiq50mg (can't cut them!) to Effexor (venlafaxine, V) same drug but easier dose reduction (and mfr TEVA's beads are handily ~= 1mg ea).  20140218 125mgV  0309 112mg 0401:100mg, 410:75, 0506:70, 0512:65, 0525:56, 0614:37.5, 0620:30, 0624:27, 0630:26, 0706:24, 0724:22, 0801:20, 0804:19, 0808:18, 0813:17, 0818:16, 0819:15, 0821:13, 0903:12, 0911:11, 0918:10, 0921:9, 0927:8, 1001:6, 1021:5, missed a day?, darn, it was going so well, or so I thought.  SEVERE ANXIETY, INSOMNIA. WAY TOO QUICK REDUCTIONS! hindsight: 0813:5%/5days, 0818:6%/5days, 0819:6%/1day, 0821:13%/2days, 0903: 7%/14days, 0911:8%/8days, 0918:9%/7days; 0921:10%/3days, 0927:11%/6days, 1001:25%/3days (still okay!) 1021:16%20days.  guideline is 10%/30days =  i am a self-diagnosed idiot

20141103 back to 6mgV, xanax next several days. 1111 insomnia bad, 10mgAmbien slept well. 1112 8mgV no Ambien; miserable. 1113 Ambien+xanax, tough night. 1114 Very Tired. 0.125Xanax, 25mgV at 10, better 10min later. 20141115 37.5mg V +Ambien. miserable month, still insomnia & anxiety. 1214 upped to 75mg V, ate .125Xanax. 1215 37.5mg mornings; force sleep for one week and come back". 20150115 lots of appts lots of chat but we never get to MY agenda = meds discussion.  Upping to 47.5mg mornings (no more xanax-, lunesta-forced sleep) but still anxious.  PAYING BIGTIME FOR TOO-FAST WEANING in OCTOBER 2014!  20150220 50mg V. 20150330 still anxy each am let's try reducing: 45mg V 1/day mornings. 20150511:42mg, 0611:40, 0626:39, 0710:38, 0717:37, 0731:33, 0813:32, 0915:29, 0927:28, 1004:27, 1015:26, 1101:25, 1116:22mg/day.  Still anxiety every morning, this sucks.  20151124 found a shrink who seems to get weaning: 20151125 add 10mg/day Prozac aka fluoxetine F, continue taper V to zero, then taper the F, "easier".  20151203:10mg Prozac=P 19mg V, 1213:10mgP17mgV, daily anx quieter but lurking. 1227:10mgP15mgV, 20160108:10mgP14mgV, 0124:10P13V, 0131:P10,V12. 0215 P10,V11.  0223:P10V10.  0314:P10V9. enjoying relatively quiet brain.  0407 P10V8, 0427P10V7, 0517P10V6, 0611P10V5, 0706P10V4, 0818P10V3, 0921P10V2,  1021P10V1, 20161128Prozac10mgVenlafaxineZERO,

20170115 still anxious upped Prozac to 20mg/day, better anxiety control... 

20190301 finally stable enough to consider weaning again, started skipping one day / week.

20190501 started skipping every 3rd day so 13.3mg/day average.  several days long 1/2life must be why the docs think of prozac as 'self-tapering' i think it just means longer time between upsetting the cart and seeing apples all over the road.  skipping is bad practice, even with longlife prozac: let's do liquid: 20190902 first day of 13mg via 5ml liquid made from 13 20mg caps in 100ml water.  20190921 12mg same way(7.7%/20days).  20191010 11mg (8.3%/20days) 20191031 10mg (9.1%/20days) 20191124 9mg (10.0%/24 days) 20191213 8.5mg (5.6%/20 days) 20191231 8mg (5.9%/20days) 20200120 hit a wall?  going another 20 days at 8mg, just started Lisinopril for hypertension (caused by prozac withdrawal creating less-than-panic-grade anxiety) and doubled atorvastatin to 40mg.  Minimizing changes in general and had a semi-panic 4am 1/20... BP still wild. 20200208 back to 9mg daily anxiety starting about 1/18.  

20200212 increase to 10mg prozac cap daily.  anxiety still there but clears within hour of drugs.  20200222 still anxy 2 hrs after 10mg, added another 1mg and mucho better.  20200223 11mg early.  anxious enough to be glad i can actually sit.  will wait another 5 days before adding another milligram. 20200229 12mg prozac still anxious.  20200317 13mgProzac still anxious.  20200610 15mgProzac.  bp under control with Losartan50mg (lisinopril cough dictates change)  

20200721 "Parkinsonism" declared by neurologist my TD won't stop but it's largely left arm with symptoms that started 2005 after nerve pinch in neck, still feels like same thing to me.

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scallywag

While talking with a friend about how I was doing and what I was doing to reduce my anti-depressant, I mentioned that I was counting the beads in capsules and that I found it tedious and sometimes annoying. She suggested using a seed dispenser, such as those used for hand planting of very small seeds, e.g. carrots and radishes. I've found two different types on the market. Both are available on Amazon's USA site; retail garden centres and internet/mail-order consumer gardening supply sellers also carry them, e.g. Lee Valley (ships to Canada & US).

 

I've ordered the round one posted below. I'll post again after I've used it.

 

j3omgv339dle8iw6g.jpg   bq9ollu5druunna6g.jpg


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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scallywag

Initial report on the round, plastic seed dispenser:  I don't recommend it. 

  1. The clear plastic cover is difficult to remove. I had to use a knife with a thin metal to keep some leverage while I worked a sturdy butter knife around the edge to pry the cover off. 
     
  2. Shaking or tapping the dispenser creates friction between the beads and the dispenser, and a static charge builds. Eventually the beads get stuck to the plastic.

It's possible that the tight fit of the cover will decrease with use. I'll experiment to see if I find something that works. I'll also try a couple of things to reduce the static.  If I find simple and effective fixes, I'll post them here.

 

/signature in post immediately above


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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scallywag

Updated seed dispenser report: Two thumbs up! A+++++! Would buy again!  :D

 

The issue with the lid being difficult to remove was a one-time thing for my gadget. It now has appropriate friction to stay in place and I can remove it quite easily. For the static issue, I did some searching on the web and came across a very simple solution -- dishwashing detergent. I mixed 1 tsp of liquid dishwashing liquid (the sink kind not the dishwasher variety) in a small plastic container that was big enough hold the dispenser then put the dispenser in the container. Rinse.  I haven't had static build up since.  Here's what I do when it's time to set up some doses:

 

Gear/stuff

  • cake pan or roasting pan with at least 1" high sides;  sheet pan/jelly-roll panwould work just that the sides aren't as high. This keeps the beads from rolling all over the table and possibly the floor.
  • seed dispenser
  • capsules of the drug -- Effexor XR, Cymbalta, etc.
  • empty gel capsules, or vegan capsules if that's important to you
  • a dark coloured piece of paper folded accordion style: /VV (the beads go in the bottom of one of the Vs)
  • a pencil or knife or other pointy object to move the beads

Method:

  1. Put the dispenser, the folded paper and the dispenser in the roasting pan.
  2. Open a capsule and pour about half the beads into the circular holding area. Keep the capsule close to the bottom of the dispenser so the beads don't bounce out.
  3. Check for beads in the rim where the lid goes.  If there are any, dump the dispenser upside down into the clear lid, then carefully transfer the beads back to the green holding area.
  4. Put the lid on. Turn the opening to "0" which has no hole for the beads to come out.
  5. Set up the folded paper so that it's easy to tap/shake the dispenser's spout into one of the Vs.
  6. Turn the clear lid to opening marked "1"
  7. Shake out a bunch of beads into the paper. Close the lid by turning it back to 0.
  8. Count the beads in the paper, write this down on another scrap of paper
  9. Open an empty capsule, carefully lift the paper and transfer the beads into the empty cap.
  10. Put the gel cap top back on the bottom you've just filled
  11. Repeat steps 5-10 until you've
    - reached  your desired bead count, or
    - you've run out of beads (then go back to step 2).

My previous method was to shake the beads directly from the capsule onto a suede-like cloth, then count the beads on that to reach my taper # of beads. I find this better controls the beads than what I was doing before.  And, I like gadgets. :P


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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brassmonkey

Scallywag-- I just reposted this to the Best of SA thread.  Brilliant idea.

 

Brass


20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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