thecowisback: wondering why I'm giving up Prozac

[RichT]

Hi TheCowIsBack,

 

It won’t be your last window! Hang on in there.

 

warmest wishes,

 

Rich

[thecowisback]

xx

[Rosetta]

What you are going through is so similar to my experience.  The worrying all day and bad dreams at night.  Your brain is trying to heal, and this is the result.  It will fix itself eventually.  You simply have to hold on until it does. "Simply" - it's very, very frustrating, I know.  If you can distract that will help.  I don't expect you to read my thread, but it is full of posts just like your last two.  I'm coming out of it now, more or less.  The worry is less intense.  The nightmares less frequent.  My house is still a mess, but I can handle it being that way, and I am pretty confident that I will be able to fix it eventually.  You will get to this place.  I am sure of it.  

 

I'm very glad to hear that people see you as happy and are glad to see you.  You are going to need contact with others, and that trait will be helpful.  

 

Everything is going to work out all right.  That impossible to see right now.  However, looking back I can see how irrational my thinking was, and how obvious it was that my worries were generated by my brain being altered by the drugs.  It takes much too long for it to change back, but it will.  Meanwhile, very few of your worries will actually happen, and you will continually become more capable i n dealing with problems that that do aris e.  Please give yourself a break right now, and pretend you have a broken leg.  You can't get up as fix the house!  Your leg is broken.  It needs to heal.  You don't need to damage it more, right?  (I'm not saying your brain will be damaged more by trying too hard.). Pretend it's impossible for you to physically do these things on the days your brain won't cooperate.  Then sit down with a cup of tea and watch funny tv, or funny cat videos, or teach yourself something via youtube.  It is in fact physically impossible to do some things and not others when our brains are repairing themselves.  You have to use trial and error to find out what you can do.  Make sure that whatever it is you choose something that is not increasing anxiety even if it seems frivolous and wasteful.of time.  Anything that causes you stress -- oops, that broken leg is back!  Can't do it.  The very basic survival activities you must do.  That is enough stress.  Otherwise, let as much go as possible, and watch soothing videos with calming music, painting videos, etc.  It is ok to let your brain heal first!

Rosetta

[thecowisback]

thankyou so much for your reply - i've been having a read through your thread and you've really been through the mill - it's only people like you on here who truly understand how i:'m feeling and why i'm so scared of such ridiculous things 💙💛💓💜💙💚

[thecowisback]

i've been on 5mg of prozac for 5 weeks now. i thought it was helping to reduce my fear 2 weeks ago when i had a 5 day window but now things are as bad as ever. 

do i need to updose again or have i not given it enough time to work? i know prozac has a very long half life so takes a while to kick in. 

 

[thecowisback]

if only i could remember everyday things the same way i remember my ocd thoughts. i missed another appointment yesterday, the 3rd one in the last few weeks because my head was full of obsessions. i wrote it in my wall calendar and knew i had to go but by the afternoon i'd completely forgotten and missed it!

 

[powerback]

5 hours ago, thecowisback said:

if only i could remember everyday things the same way i remember my ocd thoughts. i missed another appointment yesterday, the 3rd one in the last few weeks because my head was full of obsessions. i wrote it in my wall calendar and knew i had to go but by the afternoon i'd completely forgotten and missed it!

 

I relate TCIB ,for important appointments use your phone ,set an alarm for the date ,mine reminds me the day before and a few hours before the appointment . ,also put a note on the alarm of why its going off .

Peace . 

[thecowisback]

good idea pb! now i've just got to get one of the kids to show me how to do that 😆😆 i'm such on old luddite!

[Rosetta]

Missing appointments due to anxiety and worry taking over my brain is something I have dealt with constantly through this.  It's normal for people under a lot of stress and we are definitely under stress.  Forgive yourself.  The phone reminder idea is good, but a few hours before did not work for me.  I need constant reminders until I leave.  I can be swept up in a worry at any point along the way.  It's like a river current that redirects me down one side of a fork in the river.  Sometimes leaving very early helps because I become obsessed about the appointment itself throughout the time period.  

[thecowisback]

sounds like a common problem for us!

[thecowisback]

i'm so eaten up today because i have to talk to someone tomorrow (and apologise for something) and i can't stop running over and over in my head what i'm going to say to them. my husband says it will be fine and i'm overthinking it. what is the worst this person will do? they'll probably just shrug and say it's fine. my husband is so pragmatic. i am whatever the opposite definition of the word is!!!

[thecowisback]

after a sleepless night i met the person i needed to apologise to and they said there was no need! so of course i've come home and my ocd has turned to some other obsession. 

it's just relentless. i never had it this bad before withdrawal. it's days like this i'm tempted to up the dose to 20mg and hope it works, but then my rational mind tells me what a mistake that would be and i'd have even longer to taper off at the end of all this. 

practicing claire weekes' words right now.........

[thecowisback]

how long should i stay on my current dose? it's been nearly 8 weeks with very little in the way of improvement. i haven't been taking daily notes as they made me fixate too much on my symptoms but i have been jotting down how i feel each day. apart from a wonderful 5 day window things are just the same regarding my fear, panic and ocd. 

i'm scared to increase the dose in case it makes my anxiety even worse like it did the last time i upped it. is it possible that the drug needs longer than 7-8 weeks to get working?

@ChessieCat @Gridley @Altostrata @Shep

[Altostrata]

As usual, I need to know if the way you feel now is worse than you felt before, and in what way, when did it change yadda yadda yadda

 

We've been through this cycle so many times, I feel you should know how to do it by now. Yes, I need daily notes yadda yadda yadda

 

In general, I'm feeling your situation is not related to withdrawal, you need intensive therapy to change the way you react to your circumstances, or you need to change your circumstances, or something else we don't offer in peer support here. Whether an increase in dosage will help -- your guess is as good as mine.

[thecowisback]

will start taking notes again.....

[thecowisback]

i feel it has to be down to withdrawal as i never experienced fear like this before or during taking meds, and i read so many other peoples posts on here that describe the same level of fear of things that really don't matter to other people. 

intensive therapy is something i don't have access to (have been begging for help for 2years but mental health treatment in this country is woefully inadequate.) 

i keep reading through my cbt and act books and listening to claire weekes, but nothing seems to sink in when that first wave of panic hits and by the time i've realised what is happening 2 or 3 days have passed. i find it so hard to recognise that first 'what if?' thought as my brain playing tricks. 

 

 

[thecowisback]

i also feel 'your guess is as good as mine' is a very flippant way to reply to someone asking for help. i know i'm often going round in circles but i'm not the only one here stuck in groundhog day because of withdrawals. it's been commented before that i don't have withdrawals but i don't see how my case is any different from anyone else who came off long term use of ad's too quickly. i know i'm not going to cure my symptoms by taking meds again but i'm hoping to ease them and am very cautious about taking too much too soon, hence the question about updosing. 

i stopped making daily notes as every day is pretty much the same - neverending fear day and night. writing it down each day with no difference in symptoms makes me feel worse. 

i won't bother asking for advice any more. i just wanted to hear the opinion of someone more experienced and didn't expect such an offhand answer. 

there is no help to be had on the nhs - only last week someone  in our local news  committed suicide because they couldn't get access to professional help for their depression. a friend of mine lost her husband 3 years ago and is still on the waiting list for grief counselling.if you don't have money for private therapy you are buggered. 

 

[ChessieCat]

9 minutes ago, thecowisback said:

i also feel 'your guess is as good as mine' is a very flippant way to reply to someone asking for help

 

Alto isn't being flippant when she says this.  She is just being honest and admitting that she doesn't know.  If she did know, then she would be making a suggestion.

 

34 minutes ago, thecowisback said:

i keep reading through my cbt and act books and listening to claire weekes, but nothing seems to sink in when that first wave of panic hits and by the time i've realised what is happening 2 or 3 days have passed. i find it so hard to recognise that first 'what if?' thought as my brain playing tricks. 

 

Instead of trying to "fix it" when you finally realise it has happened, it might be better to do "check ins" throughout the day.

 

When my dog died 3 years ago my daughter was concerned about how I would cope.  She suggested that I check in with myself throughout the day to see how I was feeling.  To start with I set a reminder but after a while I didn't need to.  And I've ended up using this technique regularly and I've found it very helpful.

 

The idea of checking in with yourself is to help to nip it in the bud.  I also find that when I do this I take a few deep breaths so when I am doing okay at the check in time, I benefit from a bit of relaxation and a very short time away from whatever I am doing or thinking.  Sort of like a mini refresher time.  It's definitely made me more aware (mindfulness) and as a result I can pick up on the changes in me sooner than I used to. 

[thecowisback]

in the dare programme i'm following they advise not to check in. that's why self help is so hard because each different programme has different ways of dealing with things. 

i felt alto's comment was flippant as i only wondered how long it can take for prozac to work - i know it has a longer half-life than other drugs so takes longer to kick in but does that mean weeks or are we talking months? when i search online i find such varying information and some people say it can take a lot longer to work for anxiety and ocd than for depression. 

i'll just muddle along on my own from now on. 

[powerback]

Dont stay on your own unless youve got support.

Keep using examples like the other day when you met that person and it was fine.create new positive thoughts .

Its cruel tho isnt it because it feels like we are in that movie men in black and all our positive feelings and emotions are being wiped with the flick of a button .

I agree about not keeping a symptoms diary but try a diary for fears and thoughts .

Take care TCIB 

[thecowisback]

thanks pb x i'm getting disheartened by being told i can't have withdrawals after all this time. my doctors don't believe me and then doubts are expressed on here as well, one of the few places where i could go and be believed. 

i know i have to change.my thinking and i'm the only one that can do that but there has to be a physiological reason for my thinking. i had always been a glass half full type of person, and always looked on the bright side until 2 years ago. i stopped prozac and bang!! since then i have had an unrelenting terrible fear of anything and everything and my mind swings from suddenly thinking of something scary that could happen, to beating me up about things i got wrong in the past. 

this isn't who i am or what i was like before withdrawals hit. 

if, as alto and my doctors say, my state of mind have .nothing to do withdrawals then i have to accept that i am just going crazy and may as well go up to full dose of meds and be done with it. 

 

[direstraits]

I'm off drugs 5 years and still don't feel anywhere near my "normal" self.

I NEVER felt like this in my life,I've been depressed and anxious but never felt anything like this....I had no idea someone could suffer like this.

these drugs are evil and should be banned.

 

I'm sorry you're suffering like this ….you're not going crazy,it's the drugs.

 

hope we can all recover from this someday.❤️

[wantrelief]

2 hours ago, thecowisback said:

i stopped prozac and bang!! since then i have had an unrelenting terrible fear of anything and everything and my mind swings from suddenly thinking of something scary that could happen, to beating me up about things i got wrong in the past. 

this isn't who i am or what i was like before withdrawals hit. 

I think this is your answer....if this wasn't you before quitting Prozac, it is withdrawal.  My situation is different but I am experiencing these symptoms as well and see many others here with the same.  I am sorry it is so difficult to find in person support.  From reading your posts it sounds like you are trying your best on your own to find ways to cope with all of this.  In terms of drugs, unfortunately I don't think anyone can know if increasing the Prozac will be helpful or not.....it so hard to be stuck in this position of uncertainty.  I just want you to know you are not alone as you navigate your way through this.

[powerback]

1 hour ago, thecowisback said:

thanks pb x i'm getting disheartened by being told i can't have withdrawals after all this time. my doctors don't believe me and then doubts are expressed on here as well, one of the few places where i could go and be believed. 

i know i have to change.my thinking and i'm the only one that can do that but there has to be a physiological reason for my thinking. i had always been a glass half full type of person, and always looked on the bright side until 2 years ago. i stopped prozac and bang!! since then i have had an unrelenting terrible fear of anything and everything and my mind swings from suddenly thinking of something scary that could happen, to beating me up about things i got wrong in the past. 

this isn't who i am or what i was like before withdrawals hit. 

if, as alto and my doctors say, my state of mind have .nothing to do withdrawals then i have to accept that i am just going crazy and may as well go up to full dose of meds and be done with it. 

 

 

Hang in there.its hard when the  rug of validation is pulled from underneath us .if you believe its withdrawl then that's enough .we are seeking validation from DRs that don't even believe it can happen .one sentence  to them is "black box warning" .

Ive recently being checking out paitentslikeme.com ,maybe you could get more support you need  on there .

Im not talking for Alto but she is human like us all and  patience can ware thin at times ,please don't take it personal ,I should know, SA has given me ample support .   

  the beating yourself up needs looked at ,,its mostly nuero ,give it context .I thrash myself over my past because ive basically nothing because of my addictions and choices ,through introspection this has me with another diagnosis ADHD ,but I need to be honest with myself .that's why im on pateintslikeme.com ,I now need to learn about ADHD and the brain .setting labels aside in my own case my brain has never fired properly .

Try a gratitude journal but I'm aware this can trigger your fear.[I can see you now saying ,WTF have I to be grateful for in this mess ha] .

I can see your thorn between up dose or not for relief ,make a decision one way or not and stick with it for a while ,even to give you some breathing space .

Take care TCIB ,remember if your OCD starts to focus on the decorating ,look out the window instead ha ,change the channel .I literally do on the tv  because of my ADHD lol.

Peace.     

[TreeElf]

Hey, I haven't read your full thread but just wanted you to know it helped me to read your experience, so thanks for sharing. I can relate all to well to the ocd stuff, it's unrelenting most of the time. I've dealt with it since I was a teen. Regardless of how much of it is 'you' (whatever that is) or withdrawal (my instinct is that it's probably both in many cases), it does take great effort to get a handle on. But it can be done, don't doubt that. I've been hospitalised at times absolutely convinced I was a monster, practically begging a roomful of doctors to believe me, yet months or years later realising it was completely irrational and literally laughing at the state I got myself into. A good general rule that often helps is, if it feels like ocd, it most likely is. As soon as you get that tight fear, urge to ruminate, and deep inner doubt, that's your cue that your mind is going into irrational obsession mode. As I mentioned elsewhere in the site today, the work of Byron Katie has helped me a lot lately. Look her up. You can do this, you already have been. Just got to keep going, what else is there to do. Best wishes to you x

[Altostrata]

13 hours ago, thecowisback said:

i also feel 'your guess is as good as mine' is a very flippant way to reply to someone asking for help.

 

Sorry, at this point, your guess is as good as mine. I'm just a volunteer Internet support person. I can't go on asking for your symptom pattern. This must be the 30th time.  I have no idea what's going on. I don't have any idea if you need more drug or less drug or a different drug or no drug.

 

I don't know if you have withdrawal syndrome or are plagued by thoughts you cannot control. I can't be of any help, so I hope you understand, from now on, I will not be responding to your questions.

[JackieDecides]

9 hours ago, thecowisback said:

thanks pb x i'm getting disheartened by being told i can't have withdrawals after all this time. my doctors don't believe me and then doubts are expressed on here as well, one of the few places where i could go and be believed. 

 

it's harsh when you can't get good info from your doctors and you do need to talk here where we will believe you.  for what it's worth, it sure sounds like withdrawal to me. 

 

why not assume that's what it is? so often, what people are able to achieve is strongly influenced by their expectation.  expecting to get better is good for you. it's not always easy, but it's worth trying. 

 

13 hours ago, thecowisback said:

i felt alto's comment was flippant

 

I don't see it that way:  you might just be extra sensitive right now. lord knows I am, and I'm in a much better place than you are. 

 

ask yourself if Alto could just have been responding the best way she could and didn't mean to be flippant at all. and remember she built this site and spends hours, literally, every day posting here to help people.  I couldn't do it! 

 

it's a hard time, take care of yourself best you can. 🤗

[thecowisback]

i'm up to 6mg of prozac now and not seeing any difference whatsoever in my anxiety and panic. 

i'm considering going back on a full 20mg dose to see if that will help. i've heard of other people going back on a full dose and finding relief so i'm sorely tempted. 

the only thing stopping me right now is the fear that it might make my anxiety even worse. if this did happen would i be able to cut back down to 6mg again?

[Arcticjessy]

Hi. 
im in no way telling you what to do or suggesting it but I have read a few success stories where the patient had to go back to a higher dose to find relief. David Healy mentions it on his site that patients have to go higher than previous dose to see a reduction in symptoms. 

[Arcticjessy]

You could also ask for a very short dose of diazapam, it’s the only way I got back on antidepressants. I only took a low dosefor 10 days then stopped 

[thecowisback]

did you have very bad anxiety going back on?

[Arcticjessy]

Hi. Yes I did but I was extremely unwell. I’m not saying your not suffering but I couldn’t function in any but the most basic way. I was very close to throwing the towel  in. Good luck whatever you choose 

[thecowisback]

hmm, that worries me as we only have a few weeks to christmas and i need to be fully functioning for that. i may hold off upping until january. 

[Arcticjessy]

No I meant I was non functioning before. The anxiety does get worse for a week or so. 
it’s controversial but I truly believe some people’s lives are not worth living without medication I’m one.. I spent thousands on therapy. Meds are the evil and akathesia is the devil and most drs know rod all about these meds.. but I have to make my peace with it and accept something’s you just can’t change 

[thecowisback]

i guess it's that point when you think you have nothing to lose by going back on. it sounds like you had a truly awful time of things - i hope they're picking up for you now!!!

[thecowisback]

does anyone else have problems with guilt and shame during withdrawal?

i seem to be constantly beating myself up over things i should have done or did wrong in the past. i then start to badger my long suffering family for reassurance that i'm not a terrible person/parent. 

i don't know how to stop blaming myself for past mistakes. i never dwelt on thoughts like this before the withdrawals set in 😞