Tomahawk

[Tomahawk]

Hello,

Thank you for making this site, i appreciate it. This is my first question/post on SurvivingAntidepressants.

After 13 years of antideps usage: Effexor 15 months, Paxil 5 years, Lexapro 6 years, Remeron 4 months...

i'm now off all antideps. I stopped Remeron 2 months ago and Lexapro 3 weeks ago: both done on a 4 months taper until the 1 mg mark. Although i feel depressed and anxious, the worst is how bad my neck and back feel. 
 
For me Serotonine has been remarkably anti-inflammatory and although i knew i would have back problems by coming off antideps, i didn't know how bad it would be: i can't sit or stand-up for more than a few minutes and i don't sleep well. Psychiatrist wants me to try Valium 5mg again but on a long-term basis because he says that 2-5% of users don't have to up their dosage. I don't see how this would not make me more depressed, plus i know it doesn't help my back much. 
 
I already had problems with Xanax twice, i'm not interested in getting addicted to another benzo. Anyhow, this option was proposed because i'm running out of options. I run 4km everyday, i eat well, i strech, doing psychotherapy...but i really feel my body (problaby more than my mind) needs something to calm itself down. Serotonin is the only thing that has helped to get rid of the pain. 

So i'm now thinking of trying Zoloft. I'm willing to try it but since i'm from Canada here is the problem:
here the only available form of Zoloft is in capsules. My pharmacist told me i could open the capsule and divide the drug in smaller amounts for a slow taper. Is that feasible ? Thank you for any help/info.

Edited May 27, 2017 by scallywag
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[ChessieCat]

Hi Tomahawk and welcome to SA,

 

When did you start experiencing the neck and back problems?  What sort of problems are they?  Have you suffered an injury?

 

SA recommends a taper of no more than 10% of the previous dose followed by about a 4 week hold to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  A 4 month taper is fast and you may be experiencing withdrawal symptoms.  If you are, and they are unbearable, the only know way to reduce the symptoms is to reinstate a small amount of the drug you were last on.  If you decide to reinstate we can suggest what dose you could try.  Please do not go back on the last dose you were taking because your brain will have already made some adjustments during the time you have been off.

 

We need additional information so please create a drug signature Create Your Signature.  Please include details for the last 12-18 months of  all drugs, dates, doses and discontinuations & reinstatements.  If you can't remember dates, please write it as "early March" or "mid-August".  Please provide a summary of any drugs prior to that which can just be listed with start and stop years. Please include all prescription, non-prescription drugs and supplements you are currently taking. Phone Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature. Please also remember to update it with date and dose whenever make a change so that it remains current. Thank you.

 

Here are some links to check out:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist   see #56

 

tension-pain-twitches-spasms-in-muscles-and-joints   see Post #15

 

Tips for tapering off Lexapro (escitalopram)

 

A very common withdrawal problem with mirtazapine is rebound insomnia from Post #1:  Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

These helped me to understand SA's recommendations:

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

This is your own Intro topic where you can ask questions about your own situation and journal your progress.  Click "Follow" top right and you will be notified when someone responds.

[Tomahawk]

Thank you for your reply ChessieCat,

I'm exhausted from all these legal drugs, i'm depressed, tired, nervous, troubles sleeping, body aches... I was already tired of my life and of my fragile body before trying all these legal drugs 12 years ago, now i've been contemplating suicide on a daily basis for the last year. I don't have the energy or the will to describe what i've been through anymore: all options have been tried and even if i miraculously managed to retrieve some sort of equilibrium, i have so many other health problems that life has become just suffering and no pleasures. One thing is for sure, i will not go back on a small amount of Lexapro as it's now certain that in the last year was causing more harm than relief. I'm seeing someone for my suicidal ideations, and a psychotherapist for more crying that leads nowhere: honestly i see these meetings as some sort of testament.

That's right, you're reading the comments of a human being who's had enough of this endless suffering and his useless life. I'm sorry for being so down, i guess we can 'save' everyone. During my passage on Earth, i just wanted to create in Art & Philosophy and leave my grain of salt in the hearts and minds of the future generations, but now that i've become a hopeless zombie (and not even a fonctionnal one!) i just can't take it anymore. At 47, after trying for 22 years to be productive i've finally realized this day will never come. I do want to thank you again for taking the time to respond, it's appreciate it. Good luck to everyone...

"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy. All the rest— whether or not the world has three dimensions, whether the mind has nine or twelve categories—comes afterwards. These are games; one must first answer. And if it is true, as Nietzsche claims, that a philosopher, to deserve our respect, must preach by example, you can appreciate the importance of that reply, for it will precede the definitive act. These are facts the heart can feel; yet they call for careful study before they become clear to the intellect."
― Albert Camus, The Myth Of Sisyphus (1942) 

[Madeleine]

Sounds like you tapered too fast and you are in withdrawal. And this is likely cause of your feelings of despair. Once withdrawal eases you will feel better. One of the mods will hopefully provide concrete advice. Things will improve for you. Have faith. Don't ruminate on negative thoughts. Stay positive.

 

Are you sure running 4 k every day is not making your back worse? What about trying swimming instead? It would likely put less strain on your back while allowing you to stay fit.

 

Yes, from experience I can tell you Zoloft in capsules can be tapered. Mix it with a set amount of water then with a syringe take out percentage out a time. Detailed instructions are found on this site. tapered off 200 mg that way but unfortunately had crisis and went back on. I plan to taper same way again.

 

Wishing you well,

M

[Madeleine]

Ps. i find that reading philosophers such as Nietzsche is not good when one is in withdrawal. Read writers like c. S Lewis, inspiring biographies. Etc

[Tomahawk]

Thank you for your effort, Madeleine. Slow taper or not, most of what i've read on this site are people who can't stay off AD no matter how they stop it. If they succeed in staying off of it, they usually say that they still feel awful after months/years. I've done very slow taper with benzos, and short ones: all with same results. I too would say that my current despair is blown up by quitting Lexapro, but i have been in despair for the last 20 years: this is just the last draw. I'm tired of fighting without results. This is not a life i want for me or anyone else for that matter.  I think your proposition to replace running by swimming is a good one, unfortunately it's not possible at the moment. In the last 3 days, my back has been a bit better. 3 weeks ago i added 300mg/day of Magnesium Citrate to my regimen and i hope this is why my bach hurts less. 

As for Nietzsche and Camus, contrary to what we've heard way too often: these thinkers were not nihilists but humanists (Camus) and wanted mankind to succeed. I'm not reading them these days, but let's say that i prefer honest philosophers who tried to be as truthful as possible instead of telling people what to be or what to think. The quote i posted of Camus earlier is part of a book that tries to find ways to live a decent life (without religion of god) once who've decided 'not' to commit suicide and that life is worth living.

Wishing you well too,
Simon

 

[nz11]

Simon

Sorry you are in this bad place.

Slow taper or not, most of what i've read on this site are people who can't stay off AD no matter how they stop it. If they succeed in staying off of it, they usually say that they still feel awful after months/years.

There is a whole thread of success stories of people who got off and they are so glad they did and i might add many testify to being much improved.

 

I know of one person who got off and it was very difficult for many years but is doing a whole heap better in many areas and doesnt regret getting off and is very glad he did.

 

What do you think about the idea of doing a drug signature?

[Madeleine]

 I wrote you a long reply on my phone, but when I hit "reply" it didn't, and now I am typing this on computer.

There's a section on this forum on how to deal with negative emotions. Take a look through that. The suggestions might be useful to you. 

Have you read the book Feeling Good by David Burns? I think you might find it helpful too.   It's a self-help book based on Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. 

You said you have had 20 years of despair, but it'd guess that it's likely that you are overgeneralizing, that you are looking at things in a black-and-white way. There must have been some times of happiness.  There are likely many positives in your life that you are overlooking.  For starters, you live in Canada.  Canadians have it better than most other people in the world.    Secondly you seem very articulate, well read, and seem well educated. That's a positive too.  

 Every life is valuable. And, so is yours. 

There are millions of people on antidepressants (ADs.)  I read somewhere that up to 10% of Americans are on some sort of anti-depressant, and likely Canadian figures are similar.  And, in many European countries this is the same.  So the numbers are staggering. Yet, there are only just under 4,000 from around the entire world who have introduced themselves here. That is a minuscule proportion of all those on ADs. There are likely many who taper, have no or only minor symptoms, and then recover. Many of the people who come here are those who have problems with ADs and/or are anxious and scared. They post when they are scared, or feeling bad, or anxious. When they are feeling better or well, not that many come here to post that they have had a good day or that they are recovered.  There are a fair number of Success Stories on the site, but I think that the numbers do not reflect the numbers that do get off and recover. People do not want to revisit the site when they are feeling good as it reminds them of what they went through before.  They have moved on. So by reading all the posts, one gets a somewhat skewed view I think. 

Also, a lot of people find that faith in God keeps them from despair.  i do.  Maybe it's something you might want to consider or re-consider.  You enjoy philosophy. Maybe check out the theology section in a bookstore if you are near one.  I find used bookstores often carry a good selection. 

Thinking of you,

M.
 

[Tomahawk]

I'm not overgeneralizing about my despair in the last 20 years. On top of anxiety/depression/chronic pain, i also have a condition (urinary) since the age of 25 years old that prevent me from travelling, from going out for more than hour, from sleeping properly, from having a sexual life, from having a regular job, from drinking any alcohol, from eating pretty much everything that taste good, etc. And the worst, because of that condition i can't take most of the medications that could help to relieve pain/anxiety/depression. Lexapro was the only one that was giving me less problems, but now that it turned against me there isn't much i can take other than Benzos (which i hate and just make me more depressed, and quickly aggravate anxiety). So why would i do a drug signature since i can't take all available meds ?

Being from Canada does not prevent anyone from being sick and having damaging conditions for the rest of their life. Do you know that where i live (Quebec), we have one of the highest suicide rate in the world? 3 human beings die everyday here from suicide. And please don't talk to me about the most popular imaginary friend in the world call god, i don't have enough time left on Earth to waste it on that fairy tale. Btw, rational philosophy is the opposite of theology. If you really want to help: no god or religion suggestion... thank you.

So i'm at a crossroad, i have to decide if i really want to continue on living like a living-dead with Chronic Pain or do i want to end the suffering for good. I've been working extremely hard in the last 20 years to resolve my health problems, without success. Being sick everyone hour of every day got the best of me and i'm tired of living like this. All possible solutions for a decent life or just to get a little relief have been tried and i've had enough. And yes, as you know, i work out, i eat well, i'm seeing a psychotherapist... and it's usually right at this moment that someone says: "Have you tried Yoga?" And it goes on and on in circles like that for what seems like an eternity...

I still appreciate those who took the time to reply, so thank you. I wish you well...





 

[powerback]

Ps. i find that reading philosophers such as Nietzsche is not good when one is in withdrawal. Read writers like c. S Lewis, inspiring biographies. Etc

 

hi ide agree about  Nietzsche and it was ironic how he spent the last ten years of he's life ,we can do way too much Analysing when the time isn't appropriate ,when we should be just resting .    

[Tomahawk]

What's ironic about being in  a final stage of a tertiary syphillis and being poisonned by mercury, a treatment for syphillis at the time? 
I have studied the writings, life and philsophy of Nietszche from many perspectives and i do know that most people don't have the slightest idea what he was really about and what he wanted to achieve. People just regurgitate what they heard about him, which is usually far from reality. Just like Powerback who just googled Nietzsche and thinks he connect the dots. What we now know for sure is how religious and godfearing people hate him without having study his work or his life properly. So thanks for nothing, 'powerback'. If you want to help, just stick to what you know about antideps. Btw, the OP quote wasn't even from Nietzsche but from Albert Camus.  
 

“There is not enough love and goodness in the world to permit giving any of it away to imaginary beings.”
- Nietzsche
 

Now i regret ever being on this site, feels like i'm on the AA version of antideps recovery...

[powerback]

 

What's ironic about being in  a final stage of a tertiary syphillis and being poisonned by mercury, a treatment for syphillis at the time? 

I have studied the writings, life and philsophy of Nietszche from many perspectives and i do know that most people don't have the slightest idea what he was really about and what he wanted to achieve. People just regurgitate what they heard about him, which is usually far from reality. Just like Powerback who just googled Nietzsche and thinks he connect the dots. What we now know for sure is how religious and godfearing people hate him without having study his work or his life properly. So thanks for nothing, 'powerback'. If you want to help, just stick to what you know about antideps. Btw, the OP quote wasn't even from Nietzsche but from Albert Camus.  

 

“There is not enough love and goodness in the world to permit giving any of it away to imaginary beings.”

- Nietzsche

 

Now i regret ever being on this site, feels like i'm on the AA version of antideps recovery...

 

 

hi no offence intended,  I have  listened to some of he's work but only a novice ,I do try to draw on he's teachings about overcoming challenges and adversity ,like the torture we all are living in withdrawal.

much respect in your recovery

PB    

[Tomahawk]

Thank you for clearing that up, PB.