rainlace: Withdrawal symptoms or "relapse"?

[rainlace]

I am currently taking Effexor 37.5 mg after two unsuccessful attempts to get off these meds. Each time i tapered off and was completely off the meds, I experienced some flu like symptoms and brain zaps right after discontinuing but i was then OK for the next 2-3 months. After about 3 to 4 months off the meds i suddenly get severe anxiety, a complete loss of appetite, and can't sleep. A lot of people have reported these symptoms but i haven't found anyone yet to mention if they experienced these symptoms directly after stopping the meds or if it developed over time. Does anyone know if it is still considered withdrawal if the symptoms are of a delayed onset? My doc told me its a relapse in depression however i don't know if this is in fact true as i never had anxiety that bad BEFORE i started these drugs 10 years ago. 

 

Thanks guys and i would appreciate any input. 

Edited May 27, 2017 by scallywag
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[ChessieCat]

Hi Rainlace and welcome to SA,

 

What you are describing are withdrawal symptoms.  It seems to be reasonably common for the medical profession to say it is relapse as many of them don't seem to recognise that coming off ADs too quickly can cause withdrawal symptoms, sometimes several months after stopping the drug.  I have experienced both.  I had symptoms turn up several months after a cold turkey off a previous AD when I had been feeling really great.  And I have experienced brain zaps from just missing my dose of Pristiq.

 

So that we can see your complete drug history please create a drug signature Create Your Signature.  Please include details for the last 12-18 months of  all drugs, dates, doses and discontinuations & reinstatements.  If you can't remember dates, please write it as "early March" or "mid-August".  Please provide a summary of any drugs prior to that which can just be listed with start and stop years.  Please include all prescription, non-prescription drugs and supplements you are currently taking.  Phone Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature.  Please also remember to update it with date and dose whenever make a change so that it remains current.  Thank you.

 

I will give you some links to check out.

 

Before you begin tapering what you need to know

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Withdrawal Symptoms - Delayed Onset

 

Is it withdrawal or relapse?  Or something else?

How do I know it's withdrawal and not relapse?

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine)

 

SA recommends tapering by no more than 10% of the previous dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  These really helped me to understand SA recommendations:

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

This is your own Intro topic where you can ask questions about your own situation and journal your progress.  Click "Follow" top right and you will be notified when someone responds.

[TikkiTikki]

Hi rainlace,

 

Yes, I've been there before too. I tapered over 3-4 months with minimal symptoms and then 3-4 months after completely stopping I felt severe anxiety, depression, obsessive thoughts - I was a complete wreck and afraid of everything.

 

I tapered more slowly than my doctor recommended, and they said it was just relapse.

 

where are you at now? Have you reinstated your ADs and are considering quitting again, or are you still off them and feeling awful?

 

All that stuff Chessiecat has recommended is vital to know.

 

I'm planning a 1-2 year taper in the hope that  won't "relapse" again.

 

Tikki

[peng]

A question I have had on my mind at times, too, rainlace.  Cheers.

 

What are the clearest symptoms to distinguish withdrawal from relapse?

[rainlace]

Thank you ChessieCat for all the links, the info has been really eye opening for me! I will definitely try tapering at the 10% rate. I'm happy to hear what i experienced seems to be withdrawl and maybe (hopefully) with time it will pass. 

Tikki i went off Effexor last year for only 3 months, when i experienced those symptoms i went right back on the drugs because i thought maybe i really did need to be on them. I do plan to start tapering soon, i think i will be able to stick out the hard times now that i understand what i will be experiencing and why its happening. 

[peng]

A question I have had on my mind at times, too, rainlace.  Cheers.

 

What are the clearest symptoms to distinguish withdrawal from relapse?

 

Any of the mods able to offer anything on this one, please?

 

I often read on SA that most doctors will say it is a relapse, whilst SA policy, mostly, it seems to me, is to say it is withdrawal.

Not deliberately trying to be provocative, I really want to know for the sake of my own program and believe this has to be one of the key questions for most of us.

Thank you..

[bubble]

We have a few topics here on WD vs relapse.

 

Just google surviving antidepressants plus anything that comes to your mind (relapse).

 

Here is ond summary by scally:

 

How do I know it's withdrawal and not relapse?

 

Typically, in withdrawal symptoms such as melancholia, anxiety, and disorientation come in intense waves, sometimes only a few minutes long, which differentiates them from relapse of a psychological condition.

 

In withdrawal, symptoms are much more intense than the original psychological condition. People suffering from withdrawal often say things like

 

- "This doesn't feel like my depression."

- "I've never had symptoms like this before."

- "I feel very weird and not like myself."

- "I can't feel my feelings."

 

It's up to you to decide whether your body and brain are behaving "normally" as they did before you tried medication, or if you are feeling differently. No one else, not even a doctor, can determine this.

[ChessieCat]

Here's a topic:  Is it withdrawal or relapse?  Or something else?

[peng]

Thanks, bubble and ChessieCat. 

 

Yes, I guessed there would have been a lot on SA about the subject I raised.

Thanks for helping me focus on the main threads.

We all know how to google, but a pointer from experienced forum members and mods saves a lot of time and frustration, mainly from being sidetracked.

 

I think my main side effect from 5-10% rate of withdrawal over the past year has been the unmistakable brain zap.  I have not had them for a few weeks now, but fatigue, broken sleep and low mood prevail.

Not any worse than I was a year ago, but taking 125mg efex instead of 225mg must be a good thing?