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My interaction with a 'highly-credentialed' academic psychiatrist re antidepressant withdrawal


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Mods: I wasn't sure where this topic belonged. Please move if necessary.

 

 

Last week I had the pleasure of being evaluated for a second opinion by an academic psychiatrist. For some background, this individual was the chair of psychiatry at a major research university in the USA, was the director of psychiatry at said University's hospital system, is an internationally recognized anxiety disorder specialist, and is the editor of an array of academic publications. You literally can't find someone with a more impressive CV.

 

Here is a condensed version of our session:

 

Psychiatrist: 
"There's just no way a Paxil withdrawal syndrome could be affecting you months or years later. It's impossible!"

Me:
"Hypothetically, could there be a complex set of genetic differences in a subset of the population that leads to a very slow homeostatic process to properly recover after stopping an SSRI?"

Psychiatrist:
"Perhaps it is possible, but infinitesimally small. Much more likely it's indicative of an underlying bi-polar spectrum disorder"

Me:
"So, the thousands of individuals who are experiencing disruptive neurological and psychological symptoms months or years after ceasing an SSRI actually just have a mood disorder. Even symptoms such as loss of concentration, akathisia, memory loss, blurred vision, vestibular issues, gastrointestinal issues??"

Psychiatrist:
"Bi-polar spectrum illness can manifest with cognitive/physical symptoms"

Me:
"Putting aside my extreme incredulity, what would you recommend?"

Psychiatrist:
"Lamictal, Lithium, maybe an atypical antipsychotic like Latuda or Zyprexa"

Me:
"..."

He spent the rest of our appointment in a fruitless effort to "convince me" that the symptoms I was experiencing were caused by an underlying, previously undiagnosed bi-polar condition. I thanked him for meeting with me and headed home. I sent the following email a few days later:
 

 

Dr. XXXXX, 

 

Thank you again for taking the time to meet. I appreciate your attempts to assist with a difficult situation. Certainly, having someone with your professional background share their insight was a rare experience. Now that I've had some time to fully reflect on our conversation, I wanted to share some thoughts. Although I don’t doubt it is unlikely to fundamentally alter your diagnosis, I wanted to outline my thought process when evaluating the road ahead.

 

Accepting your theory that what I have been experiencing is due to an untreated bi-polar spectrum condition would require acknowledging the following axioms:

 

1) The strange cluster of psychological, cognitive, and neurological symptoms I experienced upon Paxil cessation arose due to an underlying mood disorder.

 

2a) These symptoms appearing solely after stopping long-term Paxil treatment was a coincidence.

 

2b) While acknowledging a history of intermittent depression and perhaps hypomania, the utter lack of previous history of these new symptoms (particularly those of a cognitive, physical, or neurological bent) -- either prior to or during treatment with Paxil -- is another coincidence.

 

2c) Immediate relief from these symptoms upon re-instatement of Paxil or a similar SSRI (vilazadone, sertraline) is yet another coincidence or simply due to the placebo effect.

 

3a) The documentation of these very same symptoms when stopping long-term SSRI treatment, both in anecdotal patient accounts and academic research literature, is a further coincidence or those reporting them also have a bi-polar spectrum illness.

 

3b) That many of those reporting these same symptoms when stopping SSRI treatment had no history of mental illness and were taking the medication for any of a number of non-psychological conditions (menopause, gastro-intestinal condition, etc) is another coincidence.

 

Meanwhile, the hypothesis that I'm experiencing a protracted SSRI discontinuation syndrome requires that:

 

1) The strange cluster of symptoms I experienced after stopping long-term Paxil treatment is a direct result of stopping the medication.

 

2a) Long term treatment with SSRIs can lead to complex neurophysiological adaptations.

 

2b) These complex neurophysiological adaptations are not quickly reversed in some vulnerable populations.

 

2c) Cessation of long-term SSRI treatment in these populations can lead to some type of homeostatic dysregulation that can cause a wide array of symptoms that slowly dissipate over many months or years.

 

With some effort, I was able to locate two enlightening academic papers. Are they conclusive? Perhaps… perhaps not. But they describe a condition eerily similar to my own, with an array of possible mechanisms suggested:
 

# New Classification of Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor Withdrawal

http://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/371865

 

# Withdrawal Symptoms after Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor Discontinuation: A Systematic Review

http://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/370338

 

"[...] provides substantial evidence for SSRI withdrawal prompting the need for a new classification of withdrawal phenomena associated with SSRIs. [...] New and rebound symptoms can occur for up to 6 weeks after drug withdrawal, depending on the drug elimination half-life, while persistent postwithdrawal or tardive disorders associated with long-lasting receptor changes may persist for more than 6 weeks after drug discontinuation"

 

"[...] Persistent postwithdrawal disorders or tardive receptor supersensitivity disorders have been described with the use of antipsychotic medication. Tardive dyskinesia and supersensitivity psychosis are well-known postwithdrawal disorders (also called supersensitivity syndromes). [...] We now have increasing evidence for postwithdrawal disorders with SSRI long-term use"

 

"[...] The withdrawal syndrome typically occurs within a few days from drug discontinuation and lasts a few weeks. However, many variations are possible, including late onset and/or longer persistence of disturbances Bhanji et al. and Fava et al. documented the persistence of symptoms up to 1 year following paroxetine discontinuation. Belaise et al. described 3 cases of what they defined as ‘persistent post-withdrawal disorders induced by paroxetine'. Such disturbances appear to be quite common on patients' websites but await adequate exploration in clinical studies."

 

What that in mind, I don’t see how it would be prudent to take further risks with my condition by supplementing mood stabilizers and/or atypical anti-psychotics in a speculative treatment of a bi-polar spectrum condition. I’ve been through an unimaginable torture already, and each new medication only seems to exacerbate the problem in some fashion.

 

That being said, I welcome your thoughts and any further insight you wish to provide.


 

This was his response I received today (emphasis is mine):

 

"I've completed my report and will send it to you doctor. I have nothing more to say on this. You are free to do whatever you think is best. I've made the best recommendation that I can. I wish you luck in whatever direction you decide to go."

 

I can't say I'm entirely surprised. With each physician I talk to, the true depths of the denial become more clear. It was only after some digging that I found his financial disclosure on one of his academic studies:

 

"Grant and research support from GlaxoSmithKline, Pfizer, and Forest; is a consultant for Alza, Cephalon, GlaxoSmithKline, Forest, Eli Lilly, Janssen, Pfizer, Pharmacia, Roche, and Wyeth; has received honoraria from GlaxoSmithKline, Forest, Novartis, Pfizer, Pharmacia, and Wyeth."

:angry:
  :angry:  :angry: 
 
Edited by ChessieCat
added additional spacing for ease of reading

Medication before problems: Took Paxil 60-100mg from 2003 to 2014 for OCD.
1) Last pill taken November 2014, horrendous withdrawal started six weeks later.

2) Re-instated successfully @ 20mg May 2015, but accompanied by severe anhedonia, loss of emotion, apathy, and fatigue

3) Switched to Prozac, Viibyrd, Zoloft, Nefazadone, Cymbalta, Nardil in attempt at abating WD symptoms while not re-introducing anhedonia. Each one either failed to relieve WD or brought back anhedonia. So re-stabilized on Paxil at 15mg

4) Tapered down to 7.5mg as of October 2016. More energy, anhedonia/loss of emotions remains apart from short windows.

5) May 2017 - down to 3.5mg of Paxil (no other meds)
6) Early 2018 - added 8mg of Prozac
7) January 2019 - down to 1.05 Paxil / 5mg Prozac and continuing

8) October 2019 - down to 0.2mg Paxil / 3mg Prozac

9) November 2019 - down to 0.1mg Paxil / 3mg Prozac 

10) March 2020 - done with Paxil, 2.5mg Prozac

11) April 2021 - 0.03mg Prozac

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  • Moderator Emeritus
ChessieCat

Henosis, congratulations on the well-written letter to this person.  I think we all would have fallen off our chairs if you had received anything other than the reply that you did.  I think the financial disclosure says it all.  However, we can only hope that this interaction might make a difference to someone at some time.  Gwen Olsen, pharma rep for 15 years, finally realised the truth so there is hope.

 

My own general doctor knows that I am tapering and I have told him of this website.  I have been meaning to write to the psychologist who put me onto Pristiq after I chose to cold turkey my previous AD and then was told the diabetic/insulin myth.  I think that time is now!

So close to the end!!!

🏁

Current from 16 October 2021:  Pristiq 0.005mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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hi

 

my opinion

 

 

the system is strong nailed

 

better spending your time to inform your  family of the true that they not fall in the trap than trying to make a professional say he makes criminal crap work , what he knows since long time, it is a waist of time

for anxiety 

12 years paxil - cold turkey 1,5 month - switch celexa 1 year taper; total 13 years on brain meds 

67 years old - 9 years  med free

 

in protracted withdrawal

rigidity standing and walking, dryness gougerot-szoegren, sleep deteriorate,

function as have a lack of nerves, improving have been very little 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Great work Henosis - I reckon you should fire off letters like that whenever you can.  Intelligent, concise - eventually one may hit it's mark.  I've had good results writing to my own doctor - she just happened to be 'ready' at the time I happened to write, and now she wants to work with me to make changes about antidepressants at her clinic.  So keep at it :)

 

I especially love your words "strange cluster of symptoms..."  Classic! 

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

My story of healing:ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor; please do your own research and be able to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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Altostrata

Very well put, Henosis.

 

Very few physicians know anything about adverse reactions, still fewer know anything about withdrawal syndrome.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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DrugfreeProf

 

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

 

Drugfree Prof

Psychologist and Psychotherapist

Prozac 20 mg for approx 3 months during 2000, withdrew, no w/d sx

Prozac 10 - 30 mg Jan. 2008 - Dec. 2014

Ritalin 30-40 mg Jan. 2008 - Mar. 2015

W/d sx from Prozac started around 3 months after cessation--crying spells, depressed mood, lethargy; resolved in 8 - 12 mos. post cessation

Used and continue to use a TON of alternative methods--meditation, mindfulness, nutrition. supplements, exercise, etc.

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Just spotted this thread

Henosis, I compliment you on your great letter.

Great effort.

 

I have nothing more to say on this.

This is just so typical when faced with the undeniable obvious they simply choose to remain silent.

They have nothing to table to support their BS.

This mans voice is clearly influenced by his financial ties to pharma.

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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compsports

NZ11,

 

I hate to sound like a cynic but I am guessing that even if this guy didn't have drug company ties, he would have still reached the same conclusions. The issue is most psychiatrists and regular medical professionals look at any withdrawal problems from psych meds as a return of the illness.

 

Also, psychiatrists deny many other non-psych med side effects and attribute those to psych issues.

 

Now as an exception, I have had had good luck getting anesthesiologists to take my concerns about med sensitivity when I have spoken to them prior to my undergoing general anesthesia.   But interestingly, when I told the anesthesiologist who would be doing my anesthesia that I had been twice advised to skip versed which is given routinely before procedures under general anesthesia to relieve anxiety, she tried to justify it as a safe drug.  Of course, she abided by my wishes but it is like these folks just don't realize there is a subset of patients who are quite sensitive to meds.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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fema4psychiatrists

how would HE like another human being to make his genitals go numb forever. sounds fun huh? imagine if somebody did that to him when he was a child or did that to his child?

 

What scumbags these people are. All evil people have their great excuses. dont kid yourself. It is pure evil. They are sponsored by drug companies to kill harm and maim innocent defenceless and desperate people.

 

Youtube this as a video called "your psychiatrist"

 

 

it is done to unbiased unbipolar lab rats. simple.

Edited by ChessieCat
removed offensive term

Cocktail drugged since 9

Genitals went numb

Extreme intestinal gas and pain

Extreme anxiety cant concentrate

All permanent

 

Post-SSRI Sexual Dysfunction (PSSD)

http://pssdblog.blogspot.com

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  • 2 weeks later...

Wow. Bravo.  I'm so impressed with your "industry terminology" and how calm you were.  And your letter is so impressive, I would give it to other doctors. 

But how sad that he won't even admit that you're making a good point.  And the fact that he's being paid by all those pharmaceutical companies... ugh... the whole thing makes me feel so hopeless and sad.

2005-2008: Effexor; 1/2008 Tapered 3 months, then quit. 7/2008-2009 Reinstated Effexor (crying spells at start of new job.)
2009-3/2013: Switched to Pristiq 50 mg then 100 mg
3/2013: Switched to Lexapro 10mg. Cut down to 5 mg. CT for 2 weeks then reinstated for 6 weeks
8/2013-8/2014: Tapering Lexapro (Lots of withdrawal symptoms)
11/2014 -8/2015: Developed severe insomnia and uncontrollable daily crying spells
12/2014-6/2015: Tried Ambien, Klonopin,Ativan, Lunesta, Sonata, Trazadone, Seroquel, Rameron, Gabapentin - Developed Anxiety disorder, PTSD, and Psychogenic Myoclonus
7/2015-1/2016: Reinstated Lexapro 2 mg (mild improvement, but crying spells still present)

1/2016-5/2017: Lexapro 5 mg ( helped a lot, but poor stress tolerance & depressive episodes)

5/20/2017 - Raised dose to Lexapro 10 mg due to lingering depression(Total of 2 failed tapers & severe PAWS)

9/11/2018 - Present: Still on 10 mg Lexapro and mostly recovered.(Extremely sensitive to stress which triggers Myoclonus.)

Intro page: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4149-lilu-depression-worsened-by-meds/

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  • 1 year later...
Barbarannamated

Extremely well articulated, Henosis! 

 

I'm not surprised by his response.  However, you planted a seed.  That's a tremendous step, especially with one at that *esteemed* level with numerous reasons to hold tightly to his paradigm.

 

May that seed sprout a bit of cognitive dissonance! 

 

Kudos!  

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to My interaction with a *highly-credentialed* academic psychiatrist re antidepressant withdrawal

Doesn’t this show the big problem we have. I have trouble when I go to the doctor and ask her to take my withdrawal symptoms into account. She says she had prescribed antidepressants for many patients and has never seen this problem! You can see her thinking I am just a head case! I come out of there so frustrated and angry. They are not even willing to look it up. And I have been  to different doctors. Even your friends and family react the same way. And then you get the ‘ leave Dr Google alone’ spiel. I have been experiencing extreme anxiety and OCD lately which happened after my last effort at reduction and I’m told to go see a doctor, but I don’t trust them. Their lack of knowledge worries me and I’ m not willing to take more drugs. When I first had withdrawal in 2015, I didn’t know what was wrong with me and thank goodness I found this site. Are the experts ever going to understand  this syndrome fully and expand their understanding of it, so they can educate the normal doctors all of us see and so we are not being further harmed by an ignorant medical profession!

 

 

 

 

1987 Anafranil

1987-1989 Prothiaden

1990-Jan 2015 Prozac 40mg Feb-Mar Prozac 30mg Ap-Nov Prozac 20mg (+10mg Zoloft for 1 week in Sept) Dec Prozac 10mg 2016 Jan-2017 Oct Prozac 15mg  Nov Prozac 14mg  Nov Prozac14.5mg

Other drugs Humira and Methotrexate for rheumatoid arthritisSupplements :Magnesium and calcium.Folic acid 5mg.

Inderal 10mg (stopped 2018 Dec).        

2018 Nov Quetiapine fumarate 25mg Dec 150-125mg 2019Jan 125-25mg Feb 25-12.5mg

2018 Dec Sertra 25-150-125mg

2018 Dec Pregabalin 75-150mg                                                                                                  

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They are trying to make a psuedo science into a science is my opinion to this.

 

The only response to do such is to diagnosis a different condition to claim there is scientific explanation for this.

 

Watch the movie "brain on fire" and alludes to how little we really know about the brain and how new issues are constantly be discovered which allude similar symptoms.

My Intro FB Zyprexa 2015-September 2018

1st time I tried to come straight off of 10mg Zyprexa I was hospitalized for insane insomnia.

Current - Abilify Maintena & L Theanine(for akathisia)

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Henosis, your email was so great. It is funny how we all have the same experience! Unbelievable. You answered so greatly. Sad, that it did not help you, he wrote there something in the report which can make you even problems in the future. I have the same experience.

05/2013 Lyrica 100 mg / per day for pain + PGAD resulting from caesarian delivery11/2014 started to taper: 50 mg per day/ for one week then c/tafter one month reinstated at 50 mg /per days of 10 July 2015 drug free-

symptoms OCD

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to My interaction with a 'highly-credentialed' academic psychiatrist re antidepressant withdrawal
  • 1 month later...
  • Mentor

Brilliant email. Make no mistake: he was threatened by your knowledge and argument. If you apply “Occam’s razor” to his hypothesis and then to yours, it’s clear which one should be dismissed. But these people are not strong enough to rethink their position on meds because they have so much invested in their current approach to psychiatry. For many of them, their entire professional identity and standing depends on viewing these drugs as benign.

2000–2015: sertraline 150mg for dysthymia and generalized anxiety disorder

2000–2002: clonazepam .5mg 3x/day, then tapered quickly with no withdrawal
Jan 2015–Dec 2016: tapered sertraline from 150 to 50mg; severe withdrawal at 50mg
Jan 2017: sertraline 100mg; clonazepam .5mg 2x/day

Feb 2017: sertraline 150mg; clonazepam .5mg 2x/day

April 2017–present: sertraline 200mg

April 2017: aripriprazole 1mg; clonazepam .5mg 2x/day

Aug 2018: aripiprazole 0.5 mg, tapered off clonazepam

Nov 2018: aripiprazole 1mg; Dec 2018: aripiprazole 0.75 mg; Jan 2, 2019: aripiprazole 0.5 mg; March 11, 2019: aripiprazole 0.25 mg; May 8: aripiprazole 0.22mg; June 8, 2019: aripiprazole 0.20mg; July 14, 2019: aripiprazole 0.18mg; Aug 21, 2019: aripiprazole 0.16mgai; 11/22/19: aripiprazole 4mgpw; 1/1/20: aripiprazole 3mgpw; 2/1/20 aripiprazole 0mgpw

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm not sure where to pose this question. In order to continue my slow taper I am going to have to lie to my psychiatrist. When I last visited him I was down to 112.5 mg of Venlafaxine. I started on 225mg and dropped to 187.5, 150 and finally 112.5 in 3 months dropping at 37.5mg increments each time. I did fine until 112.5 when I started getting mild symptoms so I researched and found this site and decided to do the 10% taper starting at 112.5 which isn't really what you recommend but nevertheless I was supposed to drop another 37.5mg which of course I didn't do and have been weaning. Currently I am holding at about 90 mg so I won't be down to 75mg when I see him next. So here's my thinking although I hate lying but I plan to tell him I couldn't drop 37.5mg successfully so I am staying on 112.5. Has anyone else had to lie to get enough of their meds to continue the slow wean. He is pretty arrogant, opinionated and gives me like 5 minutes at the most for a visit so I don't even want to try to convince him of anything. Your thoughts? I don't want to look for another psychiatrist because of what I read they are all pretty much the same.

 

Early 1980s 2 mg. vallium prn; Mid-1990s Paxil and 2mg. vallium prn; Somewhere in there Buspar

Early 2000s Sertaline 50 mg. and .25mg Xanax prn 

2008 Sertaline 50 mg but Xanax was increased to .5mg 6 times a day 

2015 Sertaline increased to 100mg. 2 mg. vallium prn and Wellburtrin (only on a few days)

April 2016 Venlafaxine XR 225mg with 50 mg. Zolft  and 10 mg. Vallium 3 times a day as needed

Fall 2017 Venlafaxine upped to 300 mg - 5 mg. Vallium 3 times a day prn; Jan. 2018 Venlafaxine 225mg w/Vallium

April 2018 weaned  to 187.50mg, 150mg, 112.5 mg at 4 to 5 week intervals vallium 3 times a day prn

July 2018 112.5 mg ; July 2018 started SA's 10% guideline w/ 2.5 vallium prn; lost notes  dropped to 89 mg by 10/22; 89 mg 10/29; 10/6 86 mg, 10/13 83 mg; 10/20 - 11/2 updosed to 89mg; 11/3 86 mg; 11/17 80 mg. 11/24 77mg - 12/20 80mg 1/ 20 77 mg venlafaxine; 2/19 75 mg Ven  still taking vallium 2.5 mg morning, after and evening

Simvastatin 40mg. daily with supplements: Magnesium, Omega Fatty Oils, Vitamin D3, Turmeric, Magnesium, 25 mg. to 50 mg. diphendramine for sleep

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6 hours ago, WantoffVen said:

I'm not sure where to pose this question. In order to continue my slow taper I am going to have to lie to my psychiatrist. When I last visited him I was down to 112.5 mg of Venlafaxine. I started on 225mg and dropped to 187.5, 150 and finally 112.5 in 3 months dropping at 37.5mg increments each time. I did fine until 112.5 when I started getting mild symptoms so I researched and found this site and decided to do the 10% taper starting at 112.5 which isn't really what you recommend but nevertheless I was supposed to drop another 37.5mg which of course I didn't do and have been weaning. Currently I am holding at about 90 mg so I won't be down to 75mg when I see him next. So here's my thinking although I hate lying but I plan to tell him I couldn't drop 37.5mg successfully so I am staying on 112.5. Has anyone else had to lie to get enough of their meds to continue the slow wean. He is pretty arrogant, opinionated and gives me like 5 minutes at the most for a visit so I don't even want to try to convince him of anything. Your thoughts? I don't want to look for another psychiatrist because of what I read they are all pretty much the same.

 

 

I know many people that have done just that. “I’ve decided to stay on it” becomes much easier than explaining your own tapering process with an unsupportive doctor. 

Medication before problems: Took Paxil 60-100mg from 2003 to 2014 for OCD.
1) Last pill taken November 2014, horrendous withdrawal started six weeks later.

2) Re-instated successfully @ 20mg May 2015, but accompanied by severe anhedonia, loss of emotion, apathy, and fatigue

3) Switched to Prozac, Viibyrd, Zoloft, Nefazadone, Cymbalta, Nardil in attempt at abating WD symptoms while not re-introducing anhedonia. Each one either failed to relieve WD or brought back anhedonia. So re-stabilized on Paxil at 15mg

4) Tapered down to 7.5mg as of October 2016. More energy, anhedonia/loss of emotions remains apart from short windows.

5) May 2017 - down to 3.5mg of Paxil (no other meds)
6) Early 2018 - added 8mg of Prozac
7) January 2019 - down to 1.05 Paxil / 5mg Prozac and continuing

8) October 2019 - down to 0.2mg Paxil / 3mg Prozac

9) November 2019 - down to 0.1mg Paxil / 3mg Prozac 

10) March 2020 - done with Paxil, 2.5mg Prozac

11) April 2021 - 0.03mg Prozac

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You might find this amusing. I'm Catholic so I asked my husband if I lie to the psychiatrist do I need to go Confession and he said "No, the psychiatrist needs to go to Confession."

Early 1980s 2 mg. vallium prn; Mid-1990s Paxil and 2mg. vallium prn; Somewhere in there Buspar

Early 2000s Sertaline 50 mg. and .25mg Xanax prn 

2008 Sertaline 50 mg but Xanax was increased to .5mg 6 times a day 

2015 Sertaline increased to 100mg. 2 mg. vallium prn and Wellburtrin (only on a few days)

April 2016 Venlafaxine XR 225mg with 50 mg. Zolft  and 10 mg. Vallium 3 times a day as needed

Fall 2017 Venlafaxine upped to 300 mg - 5 mg. Vallium 3 times a day prn; Jan. 2018 Venlafaxine 225mg w/Vallium

April 2018 weaned  to 187.50mg, 150mg, 112.5 mg at 4 to 5 week intervals vallium 3 times a day prn

July 2018 112.5 mg ; July 2018 started SA's 10% guideline w/ 2.5 vallium prn; lost notes  dropped to 89 mg by 10/22; 89 mg 10/29; 10/6 86 mg, 10/13 83 mg; 10/20 - 11/2 updosed to 89mg; 11/3 86 mg; 11/17 80 mg. 11/24 77mg - 12/20 80mg 1/ 20 77 mg venlafaxine; 2/19 75 mg Ven  still taking vallium 2.5 mg morning, after and evening

Simvastatin 40mg. daily with supplements: Magnesium, Omega Fatty Oils, Vitamin D3, Turmeric, Magnesium, 25 mg. to 50 mg. diphendramine for sleep

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4 hours ago, WantoffVen said:

You might find this amusing. I'm Catholic so I asked my husband if I lie to the psychiatrist do I need to go Confession and he said "No, the psychiatrist needs to go to Confession."

 

You made my day lol hilarious :D

 

1995 to 1997: different antidepressants at maintenance dosages along with benzos 3 times a day.  

1998 to 2000: Citalopram 20mg + Benzo twice daily.

2001 to 2015: Sertraline 50 mg + Alprazolam (half of 0.25 mg once daily which is next to nothing)

2016 to 2017: Sertraline 50 mg + Dosulepin (Prothiaden) 25 mg (NO BENZO)

2017 to 2018: Dosulepin (Prothiaden) 50 mg  (NO BENZO)

2018 (Earlier): Olanzapine (Zyprexa) 5 mg + Clonazepam 0.25 mg x 2 daily (7 weeks on Olanzapine was a disaster, antipsychotics are not for panic disorder)

2018 August : Sertraline 50 mg for 20 days (couldn't take it any longer) + Clonazepam.

2018 Sept. 1st week: Dosulepin (Prothiaden) 25 mg + Clonazepam 0.25 mg -- 2018 Sept. 2nd week: Dosulepin (Prothiaden) 12.5mg +Clonazepam 0.25 mg 

2018 November: Clonazepam 0.50 mg at night (for sleep disturbed by tinnitus)

2019 January to now: Clonazepam 0.25 mg at night and 0.25 mg in the morning.

Remember: Going out for a Walk or for a Change does help, it may take a few days or weeks or months for some, but it definitely helps.

Here is Knowledge for you: The more you Know about your sickness the more bad it is for you, so forget about it !

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Barbarannamated

Depending on where you live, telemedicine may be available to help out. It was originally targeted for rural areas, but is offered by many different hospital groups, independent physicians and groups, CVS clinics, etc. Many are geared toward psych. It's covered by many insurers. The prescriptions are sent directly to your pharmacy and covered by insurance. Regulations differ by state in the USA. 

 

I'm not sure how this might effect your relationship with your regular doc, so that's a big consideration, but I thought I'd mention. 

 

 

 

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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On 9/26/2018 at 10:59 AM, Barbarannamated said:

Depending on where you live, telemedicine may be available to help out. It was originally targeted for rural areas, but is offered by many different hospital groups, independent physicians and groups, CVS clinics, etc. Many are geared toward psych. It's covered by many insurers. The prescriptions are sent directly to your pharmacy and covered by insurance. Regulations differ by state in the USA. 

 

I'm not sure how this might effect your relationship with your regular doc, so that's a big consideration, but I thought I'd mention. 

 

 

 

 

 

After spending years in the withdrawal world, I’m thoroughly convinced there is nothing a conventional physician could offer. Slow tapering, along with a clean diet and exercise seems to the only treatment. 

Medication before problems: Took Paxil 60-100mg from 2003 to 2014 for OCD.
1) Last pill taken November 2014, horrendous withdrawal started six weeks later.

2) Re-instated successfully @ 20mg May 2015, but accompanied by severe anhedonia, loss of emotion, apathy, and fatigue

3) Switched to Prozac, Viibyrd, Zoloft, Nefazadone, Cymbalta, Nardil in attempt at abating WD symptoms while not re-introducing anhedonia. Each one either failed to relieve WD or brought back anhedonia. So re-stabilized on Paxil at 15mg

4) Tapered down to 7.5mg as of October 2016. More energy, anhedonia/loss of emotions remains apart from short windows.

5) May 2017 - down to 3.5mg of Paxil (no other meds)
6) Early 2018 - added 8mg of Prozac
7) January 2019 - down to 1.05 Paxil / 5mg Prozac and continuing

8) October 2019 - down to 0.2mg Paxil / 3mg Prozac

9) November 2019 - down to 0.1mg Paxil / 3mg Prozac 

10) March 2020 - done with Paxil, 2.5mg Prozac

11) April 2021 - 0.03mg Prozac

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Barbarannamated
On 9/27/2018 at 9:14 PM, Henosis said:

 

 

After spending years in the withdrawal world, I’m thoroughly convinced there is nothing a conventional physician could offer. Slow tapering, along with a clean diet and exercise seems to the only treatment. 

 

Henosis, I agree completely!

My comment was only meant as an alternative to dealing with your doctor's attitude and to be able to taper as slowly as necessary. 

 

My apologies for any confusion. 

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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16 hours ago, Barbarannamated said:

 

Henosis, I agree completely!

My comment was only meant as an alternative to dealing with your doctor's attitude and to be able to taper as slowly as necessary. 

 

My apologies for any confusion. 

 

No worries. Thankfully I have a pretty good psychiatrist. The man mentioned in this post was for a second opinion.

Medication before problems: Took Paxil 60-100mg from 2003 to 2014 for OCD.
1) Last pill taken November 2014, horrendous withdrawal started six weeks later.

2) Re-instated successfully @ 20mg May 2015, but accompanied by severe anhedonia, loss of emotion, apathy, and fatigue

3) Switched to Prozac, Viibyrd, Zoloft, Nefazadone, Cymbalta, Nardil in attempt at abating WD symptoms while not re-introducing anhedonia. Each one either failed to relieve WD or brought back anhedonia. So re-stabilized on Paxil at 15mg

4) Tapered down to 7.5mg as of October 2016. More energy, anhedonia/loss of emotions remains apart from short windows.

5) May 2017 - down to 3.5mg of Paxil (no other meds)
6) Early 2018 - added 8mg of Prozac
7) January 2019 - down to 1.05 Paxil / 5mg Prozac and continuing

8) October 2019 - down to 0.2mg Paxil / 3mg Prozac

9) November 2019 - down to 0.1mg Paxil / 3mg Prozac 

10) March 2020 - done with Paxil, 2.5mg Prozac

11) April 2021 - 0.03mg Prozac

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Junglechicken

I agree with the others Henosis, excellent letter!

 

One of these days, these highly paid drug pushers are going to "get it" right where it hurts.

 

Total denial of reality, and the embarrassment will be on them in the end, because healthcare systems (certainly the UK one) are coming round to the fact that ADs DO cause long-term / protracted WD symptoms.

 

 

Dose History: 19 Feb 2014 - Escitalopram 10mg daily June 2015 - Started taper, 5mg every other day July 2015 - 5mg every 2 days August 2015 - 5mg every 3 days September 2015 - 5mg every 4 days Sept 14th - Completed tapering, but at 7 weeks "drug free" I suffered serious WD symptoms as a consequence of "incorrect" tapering. Nov 25 2015 - Re-instated Cipralex @ 2.5mg daily. WD symptoms faded. Held at this dose and experienced "windows and waves". 12 Oct 2017 Reduced dose to 1.25mg. 13 Mar 2018 Reduced dose to 0.625mg (approx.). 16 April 2018 0mg. Windows and waves triggered by stress (IBS/reflux, headaches, sinus issues) Aug 2019 Mirena coil fitted 6 Jan 2020 MAJOR Wave hit 19 months following last dose (protracted WD).  Symptoms listed below Mar 2020 Mirena coil removal.

Therapy: Nov 15th 2016 Re-started therapy Jan 19th 2017 Started CBT Dec 2017 Started listening to Hypnotherapy CD (self-esteem). Nov 2019 Started couples therapy.

Supplements: "Bioglan" Biotic Balance Ultimate Flora 10 billion CFU, live Bacteria, Probiotic, suitable for Vegetarians, with Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Rhamnosus, Bifidobacterium Longum"Pukka" Vitalise a unique blend of 30 energising botanicals.

Diet: 16 April 2018 Detox cleanse / anti-candida for 90 days. Jan 2020 Started "small plate" diet (i.e child size portions).

Exercise: Stretching, Yoga, Pilates, Spinning, Elliptical/upper body workout, walking.

Medical Test Results: 4 Jan 2017 Homeopathic Treatment starts 24 Feb 2017 Started weight loss program 24 Mar 2017 Naturopathic Treatment + anti-Candida diet started due to suspected Candida Related Complex (CRC). DETOXED for 7 weeks to "re-set" gut. April 2017 "Genova Diagnostics" Comprehensive Stool Analysis NEGATIVE; Full Blood Count (Normal) / Blood Cholesterol: 5.6 (Borderline) / Blood Sugar (Normal) / 28 Jun 2017 FSH 8.2 / 14 Nov 2017 FSH 17.7 Dec 2017 Blood Cholesterol: 3.9 (Normal) / Kidney Function (Normal) / Blood Sugar (Normal). December 2017 "Genova Diagnostics" Food panel allergy (bloodwork) analysis - a few "VERY LOW/VL" allergens; Mar 2018 "Genova Diagnostics" SIBO urine analysis: High Level of Yeast/fungal markers found in small intestine but NO SIBO.  April 2018 Thyroid (Normal) / Full Blood Count (Normal) / FSH (Normal). 16 April 2018 Started anti-Candida diet - 3 month protocol.   25 March 2020 All test results "Normal". CRP" 5 mg/L (normal range to 0-5 mg/L).

Symptoms:  Flu-like symptoms, anxiety, anhedonia, sinus headaches right-side (severe), IBS issues/reflux (severe)**, tinnitus, fatigue, inner tremor, nausea, chills/hot flushes, pounding heart, muscular issues including stiff left hip flexor, intense anger, PSSD (ongoing).  **Histhamine intolerance (suspected).

 

Major Life Events: 

Re-located to UK from Canada: Jan 2016

My father died: 5:05pm, Monday 5 Feb 2018 Last Lexapro dose: 16 April 2018 (its now been over a year since I quit ADs)

Moved house: Friday 23rd February 2018  "Divorced" toxic Mother: Monday 26 March 2018 Starting working again: 19 November 2018

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A consultant just told me today my own anxiety is making me think I have these issues and asked do I research ailments often ,the man has planted a seed in my head about spectrum disorder.

I got the whole thing about the "condition" coming back .I'm sorry I went .

the frightening thing is that there's parts to my character in this process that is playing into he's hands .

I'm by no means perfect but there's serious trouble coming ,we are worried about the likes of trump but its phyciatry that is playing us like fiddles .the fact there not even open to criticism is scary .

is this were the narcs go for power .as far as I'm aware  Jordan Peterson is on meds ,so if the likes of him is on it and thriving there's a lot building up against this situation we are in .

I was scared today ,I felt like I was sitting in front of Putin.

The one thing ile admit is since childhood I've been very malleable to Authority[especially health] and I think this is why I'm crushed after today .the seed was set in me a long time ago in childhood when I didn't have a choice but to be told .  this created a distain in me as an adult 

Great letter H .

take care . 

Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, powerback said:

A consultant just told me today my own anxiety is making me think I have these issues and asked do I research ailments often ?

 

The good part is, the doctors are not always wrong my dear :) 

1995 to 1997: different antidepressants at maintenance dosages along with benzos 3 times a day.  

1998 to 2000: Citalopram 20mg + Benzo twice daily.

2001 to 2015: Sertraline 50 mg + Alprazolam (half of 0.25 mg once daily which is next to nothing)

2016 to 2017: Sertraline 50 mg + Dosulepin (Prothiaden) 25 mg (NO BENZO)

2017 to 2018: Dosulepin (Prothiaden) 50 mg  (NO BENZO)

2018 (Earlier): Olanzapine (Zyprexa) 5 mg + Clonazepam 0.25 mg x 2 daily (7 weeks on Olanzapine was a disaster, antipsychotics are not for panic disorder)

2018 August : Sertraline 50 mg for 20 days (couldn't take it any longer) + Clonazepam.

2018 Sept. 1st week: Dosulepin (Prothiaden) 25 mg + Clonazepam 0.25 mg -- 2018 Sept. 2nd week: Dosulepin (Prothiaden) 12.5mg +Clonazepam 0.25 mg 

2018 November: Clonazepam 0.50 mg at night (for sleep disturbed by tinnitus)

2019 January to now: Clonazepam 0.25 mg at night and 0.25 mg in the morning.

Remember: Going out for a Walk or for a Change does help, it may take a few days or weeks or months for some, but it definitely helps.

Here is Knowledge for you: The more you Know about your sickness the more bad it is for you, so forget about it !

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  • 4 months later...
noearthlyfamily
On 5/17/2017 at 8:58 PM, DrugfreeProf said:

 

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

 

 

omg THIS!!!!! 😁 yes

UPDATED: 9/01/2019

Quetiapine:  2000-2005: 50mg;  2005: 100mg;   2008: 400mg;   2011: 100mg;   2014: 300mg;   2014-2017: 400mg;  7/2018-2/2019: 75mg;  1/2019: 68.75mg;  4/2019: completed switch to 3x daily dosing (25mg 8AM, 18.75mg 4PM, 25mg MIDNITE);  5/2019: 68.75mg (switched to all liquid taper using HUMCO suspension agent)  8/2019: 61mg       

Clonazepam:  2008: 2mg then 0.25mg;   2012: 0.5mg;   2014: 1mg;   4/2019: 1mg ~completed switch to 3x daily dosing (0.25mg 8AM, 0.25mg 2PM, 0.5mg 8PM);   8/2019: 1mg (switched to all liquid taper using propylene glycol as solvent)    

Gabapentin:   2011: 100mg;   2011: 200mg TID    2014: 300mg;  2017: 600mg;   2019: 900mg PM;   3/2019: completed switch to 3x daily dosing (300mg q8h)

Prior drugs: Please see this link:    (the remaining dates & meds records will be updated as i receive my complete medical files.)

Suppl's: Deva Vegan Multi & Mineral Supplement w/Greens 1x, Magnesium Lysinate Glycinate Chelate 100mg 4x, vit c 1000mg  2x, zinc gluconate 50mg 1x q.o.d., Allicin Max 180mg TID,  chlorella/spirulina 50/50 blend 2tabs 5x daily

HRT:  300mg oral progesterone h.s., 0.1mg estradiol transdermal patch 2x week

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noearthlyfamily
On 9/24/2018 at 8:24 PM, WantoffVen said:

You might find this amusing. I'm Catholic so I asked my husband if I lie to the psychiatrist do I need to go Confession and he said "No, the psychiatrist needs to go to Confession."

 

i'm in tears!! 😂 your Hubbs is so correct!

UPDATED: 9/01/2019

Quetiapine:  2000-2005: 50mg;  2005: 100mg;   2008: 400mg;   2011: 100mg;   2014: 300mg;   2014-2017: 400mg;  7/2018-2/2019: 75mg;  1/2019: 68.75mg;  4/2019: completed switch to 3x daily dosing (25mg 8AM, 18.75mg 4PM, 25mg MIDNITE);  5/2019: 68.75mg (switched to all liquid taper using HUMCO suspension agent)  8/2019: 61mg       

Clonazepam:  2008: 2mg then 0.25mg;   2012: 0.5mg;   2014: 1mg;   4/2019: 1mg ~completed switch to 3x daily dosing (0.25mg 8AM, 0.25mg 2PM, 0.5mg 8PM);   8/2019: 1mg (switched to all liquid taper using propylene glycol as solvent)    

Gabapentin:   2011: 100mg;   2011: 200mg TID    2014: 300mg;  2017: 600mg;   2019: 900mg PM;   3/2019: completed switch to 3x daily dosing (300mg q8h)

Prior drugs: Please see this link:    (the remaining dates & meds records will be updated as i receive my complete medical files.)

Suppl's: Deva Vegan Multi & Mineral Supplement w/Greens 1x, Magnesium Lysinate Glycinate Chelate 100mg 4x, vit c 1000mg  2x, zinc gluconate 50mg 1x q.o.d., Allicin Max 180mg TID,  chlorella/spirulina 50/50 blend 2tabs 5x daily

HRT:  300mg oral progesterone h.s., 0.1mg estradiol transdermal patch 2x week

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noearthlyfamily
On 9/24/2018 at 12:54 PM, WantoffVen said:

I'm not sure where to pose this question. In order to continue my slow taper I am going to have to lie to my psychiatrist. When I last visited him I was down to 112.5 mg of Venlafaxine. I started on 225mg and dropped to 187.5, 150 and finally 112.5 in 3 months dropping at 37.5mg increments each time. I did fine until 112.5 when I started getting mild symptoms so I researched and found this site and decided to do the 10% taper starting at 112.5 which isn't really what you recommend but nevertheless I was supposed to drop another 37.5mg which of course I didn't do and have been weaning. Currently I am holding at about 90 mg so I won't be down to 75mg when I see him next. So here's my thinking although I hate lying but I plan to tell him I couldn't drop 37.5mg successfully so I am staying on 112.5. Has anyone else had to lie to get enough of their meds to continue the slow wean. He is pretty arrogant, opinionated and gives me like 5 minutes at the most for a visit so I don't even want to try to convince him of anything. Your thoughts? I don't want to look for another psychiatrist because of what I read they are all pretty much the same.

 

 

you know, i wanted to post this same dilemma, but didn't cause i was afraid of it somehow violating the rules. but i have thought of just telling them that to make sure they don't tell my insurance i'm trying to go off my meds or be medically incompliant or some such nonsense and get my coverage or my prescriptions dropped. i have these kinds of fears/anxiety but i don't think they're unfounded especiallly with all the true horor stories of people like us getting CT'd or dropped by the dr's when they see thier cash cow getting leaner and leaner so to speak. i am looking for another psych or regular dr because the office staff is horrible (has been for 15 years) and recently so has the dr it took her ...9 days to call in a prescription after we paid $144 bucks to see her. can't have that happening when it comes to the psych med refills, that could seriously put me in the hospital! so the search is on. 

UPDATED: 9/01/2019

Quetiapine:  2000-2005: 50mg;  2005: 100mg;   2008: 400mg;   2011: 100mg;   2014: 300mg;   2014-2017: 400mg;  7/2018-2/2019: 75mg;  1/2019: 68.75mg;  4/2019: completed switch to 3x daily dosing (25mg 8AM, 18.75mg 4PM, 25mg MIDNITE);  5/2019: 68.75mg (switched to all liquid taper using HUMCO suspension agent)  8/2019: 61mg       

Clonazepam:  2008: 2mg then 0.25mg;   2012: 0.5mg;   2014: 1mg;   4/2019: 1mg ~completed switch to 3x daily dosing (0.25mg 8AM, 0.25mg 2PM, 0.5mg 8PM);   8/2019: 1mg (switched to all liquid taper using propylene glycol as solvent)    

Gabapentin:   2011: 100mg;   2011: 200mg TID    2014: 300mg;  2017: 600mg;   2019: 900mg PM;   3/2019: completed switch to 3x daily dosing (300mg q8h)

Prior drugs: Please see this link:    (the remaining dates & meds records will be updated as i receive my complete medical files.)

Suppl's: Deva Vegan Multi & Mineral Supplement w/Greens 1x, Magnesium Lysinate Glycinate Chelate 100mg 4x, vit c 1000mg  2x, zinc gluconate 50mg 1x q.o.d., Allicin Max 180mg TID,  chlorella/spirulina 50/50 blend 2tabs 5x daily

HRT:  300mg oral progesterone h.s., 0.1mg estradiol transdermal patch 2x week

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  • Administrator
On 9/24/2018 at 5:38 PM, Henosis said:

 

I know many people that have done just that. “I’ve decided to stay on it” becomes much easier than explaining your own tapering process with an unsupportive doctor. 

 

Exactly.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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On 5/18/2017 at 2:58 AM, DrugfreeProf said:

 

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

 

This quote is so apt. 

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse manic reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     

2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
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  • 3 weeks later...

Being a psychiatrist seems so easy, doesn't it? Remember a bunch of diagnostic criteria for a bunch of mental illnesses (or don't, and go by gut feeling), prescribe the drugs usually used to "treat" the condition, give a bunch of feel good advice.

The patient complains of worsening symptoms? Must be that his underlying condition is worsening, he clearly needs more / different drugs.

The patient starts feeling better after having made some changes in his life? Must be the drugs working.

The patient feels like garbage after discontinuing the drugs? Must be a relapse.

The patient doubts your competence or the usefulness of the drugs? Must be a symptom of his underlying condition, may be schizophrenic / biploar, more drugs!

The patient has ended his life/killed someone? He clearly didn't take the drugs as directed or his underlying condition worsened.

 

Makes me wonder just what these turkeys learn about during their student years, and I doubt a doctor's coffee machine is that hard to operate. I never stepped foot in any medical school and I know and understand more about these things than these clowns. I cannot understand how anyone can be this short sighted, I'm starting to suspect pure malice.

Recent History:
ESCITALOPRAM
01/01/2019 - 11/03/2019: 10mg each morning 12/03/2019 - 20/03/2019: 5mg each morning 21/03/2019 - counting: Discontinued

Pantoprazole 2016 - 2017 (exact dates unknown), 10mg each morning
Loperamide As needed, about 4mg per week on average
Caffeine 3-4 small cups a day, exact dosage unknown
Cannabidiol As needed, 3 drops of a 10% oil under the tongue (As of 12/03/2019)

Recreational cannabis Used very rarely, maybe once per year
 

Past History:
Escitalopram,
2011 - 2012: 10mg daily tapered 100% -> 50% -> 0% over one week
Loperamide and Caffeine, as described in Recent History

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/28/2018 at 2:14 AM, Henosis said:

 

 

After spending years in the withdrawal world, I’m thoroughly convinced there is nothing a conventional physician could offer. Slow tapering, along with a clean diet and exercise seems to the only treatment. 

Concur. Would add to this psychiatry in general has done nothing but worsen my previous existing issues. I consider it to have been a costly and destructive detour. I just needed a good and compassionate therapist. Positive mirrors, so to speak. My depression was a human response to exogenous suffering. I am also drinking less alcohol s ince lowering my ssri dose. Diet, exercise and love that’s what many disorder responds to. This WD trumps anything I’ve ever experienced and I’ve seen a lot of darkness. 

SA is the best resource for WD . It took me a while to realise this. Physicians cannot treat a problem they do not believe exists. 

 

“Underlying condition” to me is the darkest most dystopian phrase. It is the axis on which so many lives fate turns. It is a disturbing falsity but with so much power . 

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse manic reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     

2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
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