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papaloapan: How to detox from psychiatric drugs and eliminate side effects?

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ChessieCat

This may be the topic you are thinking of:  preparing-to-taper

 

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mammaP
Posted (edited)
On 26/03/2018 at 3:44 PM, papaloapan said:

I NEED HELP: (continuation of tramadol tapering)

march 24 morning 9 drops night 9 drops

march 25 morning 6 drops night 6 drops, that night (yesterday) I could not sleep most of the night, I felt a horrible adverse effect (or I think it was a withdrawal effect) like something inside my head was moving, very disturbing, couldn't breathe right through my nose because my nose felt stuffed? I don't know how to translate from spanish. I have to say that since I hang out with friends on the weekend, friday and saturday night I slept later, friday night 2am and saturday night 3:30am. Saturday in the morning I got up from bed at 2pm and also sunday in the morning I got up from bed at 2pm. Sunday at night I layed down at bed at 11:50pm. Maybe that could affected because in the weekend I didn't take tramadol at the same time as the weekdays (weekdays I go to bed early, 11:30pm and in the mornings I wake up at 8:30am). 

So should I stay in 6 drops in the morning and night for more days? Or what should I do? 

 

 

Hi, I'm sorry I didnt see your PM.  I have been away from the forum for a few weeks preparing to move house. 

The above post describes tramadol withdrawal perfectly.  It is difficult because of the opiate withdrawal combined with the added SSRI/SNRI. Opiate withdrawal can be over quite quickly after taking them for a short time. How are you now, did you taper any more? 

Edited by mammaP

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papaloapan

Hi mammaP, Thank you so much for your reply, for your time and caring. I appreciate it so much. This has been how I tapered tramadol:

 

march 12 in the night: started 15 drops of tramadol

march 13 to  march 19: 15 drops twice a day: morning and night  

march 20 morning 15 drops, night 12 drops

march 21 morning 12 drops night 10 drops (felt at night some breathlessness)

march 22 morning 12 drops  night 12 drops

march 23 morning 12 drops night 12 drops

march 24 morning 9 drops night 9 drops

march 25 morning 6 drops night 6 drops (felt a horrible w/d effect while trying to sleep: horrible movement inside my head and other horrible w/d effects)

march 26 morning 9 drops night 9 drops

march 27 morning 9 drops night 9 drops

march 28 morning 6 drops night 6 drops

march 29 morning 6 drops night 6 drops

march 30 morning 4 drops night 4 drops (started feeling more dizziness, vertigo, at night while trying to sleep felt a bad w/d effect)

march 31 morning 4 drops night 4 drops (continued with dizziness,/vertigo and also at night had mild involuntary bicep stiffness, at in the middle of the night another hard to explain with words bad w/d effect)

april 1st (today) morning 6 drops

 

As you can see, each time I notice my body is having severe w/d effect and can't handle it, I go back to the last dosage, and now instead of holding each dose for 2 days, I'm going to try maybe for 3 or 4 days.

I feel hopeless, I would like to know if any person in SA has been hooked to 3 psychiatric drugs like I am now, and if that person managed to get off 3 or more psychiatric drugs. That would help me to believe that I also can do it. 

I  acquired the patience for knowing that I have to taper gradually (decrease 10% every 4 weeks) first of pristiq 50mg (by converting to effexor XR 100mg) and then taper IR quetiapine 100mg. I really don't have the patience for tapering that slow tramadol. This have been a ******* nightmare. I'm so ******* angry with the dentist because he prescribed me tramadol for the dental pain for extracting my teeth. I want him and the manufacturers of pristiq, quetiapine and tramadol in jail and to pay me money for causing me so much pain and suffering. But I don't have the time to sue them. Thank you so much for reading my post.

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papaloapan

I'm having as a side effect dry mouth and dry throat, the dry throat is affecting me because I take singing lessons and I do daily singing exercises so it obviously affects the performance of my throat and singing, I searched already for "dry throat" in the search bar of SA but didn't found a solution for it. Anybody knows a solution or a doctor that can help me with this?

 

Btw I'm still tapering tramadol, my body could only handle tapering 1 drop every 2 weeks. Today I'm taking 3 drops in the morning and 4 at night. Still taking 50mg pristiq and 100mg quetiapine

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papaloapan

I'm weaning off gradually tramadol in drops (100mg/ml, each drops equals 2.5mg). I was doing all right in this dose: 2 drops in the morning and 3 drops at night.

I read somewhere here in SA that in order to go to the next reduction, we have to be in an emotional stable state. I was aware that when I went to the next reduction 2 days ago (last sunday, july 8th) I was not emotionally stable, and also recently on july 5th, I had a very bad side effect while trying to sleep which was breathlessness and lots of anxiety. Also I'm aware that as the dose gets smaller, I have to stay for more days in the dose. I was for 19 days in the 2 drops in the morning and 3 drops in the night dose, and the next day in which it was my 1st day in which I went to the next reduction (2 drops in the morning and 2 drops at night) it took me so much more time to get asleep. I tried a 2nd day (yesterday) with this new dose, but yesterday I suffered insomnia again (it took me again a lot of time to get asleep). So I decided definitely today to go back to the previous dose (2 drops in the morning and 3 drops at night). I know that this time I have to stay for more days in this dose in order to be able to jump to the next reduction, so more days than last time, that means more than 19 days. My question is, for how many days? I just updated my signature so you can see how I've been tapering down gradually tramadol.

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manymoretodays
Posted (edited)

Hi papaloapan,

On 7/10/2018 at 2:25 PM, papaloapan said:

I know that this time I have to stay for more days in this dose in order to be able to jump to the next reduction, so more days than last time, that means more than 19 days. My question is, for how many days? I just updated my signature so you can see how I've been tapering down gradually tramadol.

It looks like you have been managing to do some drops at around an every 2 week schedule........sometimes more than 14 days.

This really stinks.......that due to the dental procedure you got dependent on tramadol.  And now.......it's such a bear to get off.

 

And okay found this:  It is tramadol 100mg/ml in drops, each ml contains 100mg of tramadol hydrochloride, each ml is equivalent to 40 drops. (from your post on March 20th)

So presently with your taking 5 gtts(drops), which is = 12.5 mg of the tramadol.

This is good, as you were on 75 mg or 30 gtts at the start.  You've made progress.

 

Hindsight is kind of worthless........yet I wish you could have more rapidly tapered at the start.........before dependencies set in.

If I were you.........I'd consider sticking to an every 2-3 week taper schedule.  And if/when insomnia or other withdrawal symptoms set in..........consider doing some non-drug coping to deal with the symptoms, rather than upping your dose again.  You can also hold at a dose for longer if need be.  You are the best judge really as to how many days.  You may not feel completely perfect.......yet good enough to do another drop.

It might help to keep track on paper as to your dosages, and changes, and then symptoms as well..........you could use a calendar or a journal for this..........so that you can see when you usually seem to stabilize a bit after each dose drop.

 

We've got a whole menu indexed of different things you can try here, as far as non drug coping goes:  Important topics about symptoms-including sleep problems

Go down the list in that link and you'll find some things that may help with insomnia.

Here is another link that may help you understand a bit more and find ways to cope with withdrawal symptoms: Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Could you just summarize your other medications/drugs again for me here?  I'm having trouble reading your signature as it's so small at the moment.  Feel free to double check my math as well on your tramadol dose in milligrams(mg).  Two minds are always better than one.

 

Okie doke.  Try and keep us updated papa.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

Edited by manymoretodays

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papaloapan

Thank you very much for your time and caring manymoretodays, I really appreciate it. Sure, how about just copying and pasting here my signature but in a bigger size so that you can be able to read it? If it's still not clear enough, let me know so that I can make it more clear to you. Thanks a lot.

 

Before Nov/30/17 I took many psychiatric drugs with many psychiatrists (since 2013).

Around september 2017 I started taking these supplements: italviron (aminoacids and B6 vitamin) and sukrol (gluthamic acid, lecithin and thiamin).

Nov/30/17 started quetiapine IR (immediate release) tablets 100mg 0-0-1. 

Dec/1/17 started pristiq (desvenlafaxine) 50mg tablets 1-0-0. Added centrum performance. Then added ginko biloba 80mg tablets.

Jan/4/18 Started tapering pristiq, psychiatrist told me to alternate dosages, 1st week: first day take it, next day don’t. 2nd week: 1st day take it, 2nd & 3rd day don’t-> couldn’t sleep one whole night so I'm almost sure that next day I went back to first day take it, next day don't - pattern.

Jan/5&6/18 Instead of IR quetiapine 100mg I took quetiapine XR 300mg.

Jan/7&8/18 changed to quetiapine XR 150mg.

Jan/9/18 went back to IR quetiapine 100mg 0-0-1. (some day around here I was not able to sleep)

Jan/9/18 discontinued italviron, sukrol and centrum performance. (still was taking ginko biloba 80mg supp). 

Jan/14/18 started with one 1.5mg melatonin tablet 0-0-1 (helped me to be able to sleep), fish oil capsules 1-0-1, magnesium capsules 2-0-2.

Jan/15/18 went back to pristiq 50mg first day take it and the next day don’t (alternating dosages). 

Jan/20/18 I learned at SA that alternating dosages is wrong so I went back to one daily pristiq 50mg in the morning (along with the IR 100mg quetiapine tablet 0-0-1 which I started again in Jan/9/18) By taking daily the same dose of pristiq 50mg and 1.5mg of melatonin I was able to sleep again.

 

Tramadol

Mar/12/18 at night started 15 drops of tramadol. 

March 13 to march 19: 15 drops twice a day (in the morning and at night). 

March 20: morning 15 drops, night 12 drops. 

March 21: morning 12 drops,  night 10 drops. 

March 22:  morning 12 drops,  night 12 drops. 

March 23: morning 12 drops,  night 12 drops.

March 24 morning 9 drops, night 9 drops.

March 25: morning 6 drops, night 6 drops.

March 26: morning 9 drops, night 9 drops.

March 27: morning 9 drops, night 9 drops. 

March 28: morning 6 drops, night 6 drops.

March 29: morning 6 drops, night 6 drops. 

March 30: morning 4 drops, night 4 drops. 

March 31: morning 4 drops, night 4 drops (felt terrible).

April 1st-April 5th: morning 6, night 6. 

April 6th - April 10th: morning 5, night 5. 

April 11: morning 4 night 4 (felt terrible). 

April 12- April 18 (7 days): morning 5, night 5. 

April 19th morning 4 night 4 (felt terrible). 

April 20th - May 3rd (14 days): morning 4, night 5.

May 4th - May 18 (15 days): morning 4, night 4.

May 19- June 1st (14 days): morning 3, night 4.

June 2nd - June 18 (17 days): morning 3, night 3. (june 13 severe depression)

June 19 - July 7th (19 days): morning 2, night 3 (June 25th extreme depression and July 5th felt breathlessness and huge anxiety while trying to sleep).

July 8 - July 9: morning 2, night 2 (took me much more time to get asleep both days). 

July 10th: back to morning 2, night 3.

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manymoretodays

Okay.  Thanks.  Got it.

 

Current medications are:

Pristiq 50 mg

Quetiapine 100 mg

Tramadol current dose is 12.5 mg

 

Other:

melatonin, fish oil, magnesium

 

Did you come off the Ginko Bulba?

 

If you can........now that we've got all that summarized in your post above..........try and do a more abbreviated signature.  It will really help us to help you when you post again.  Include some dates as well, especially with your current medications.  Symptoms along the way can go right here on your main intro/journal page.

I'll re-post the link to signature for you to refer to paploapan:

signature

 

Please keep us updated.  Hopefully another try on the tramadol taper in another week or so?

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

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papaloapan

I didn't come off the gingko biloba. I'm still taking one daily gingko biloba capsule.

I just abbreviated my signature right now and I can't abbreviate it more than how is right now, I really tried to abbreviate it as much as possible. Thank you so much for your time and caring manymoretodays.

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papaloapan

Hey guys. I continued to wean off gradually tramadol succesfully until this week. So from june 2nd to june 18th (17 days) I took 3 drops in the morning and 3 drops at night. From june 19th to july 7th (19 days) I took 2 drops in the morning and 3 at night. July 8 and july 9 I took 2 drops in the morning and 2 drops at night but both days at night it took me A LOT of time to fall asleep so I had to go back to 2 drops in the morning and 3 drops at night from july 10 to august 6 (28 days).

Then 2 drops in the morning and 2 drops at night from august 7 to september 3 (28 days). Then 1 drop in the morning and 2 drops at night I planned it for 28 days BUT since september 10th (4 days ago) till today I started having an extremely intensely debilitating withdrawal effect: way too intense intrusive, involuntary and incessant thoughts that won't let me have even a single second of silence in my head the whole day, therefore I can't meditate which was helping me a lot. Yesterday I really felt so bad because of this annoying thoughts that I'm no longer able to handle it, it is no longer tolerable, and this caused me a second and a third adverse effect these last 5 days: intense irritability and I can't get up from bed the moment my wake up alarm sounds in the morning, I feel so much tired, so I'm getting up from bed late.

So I'm 99% sure that today I'm getting back to 2 drops in the morning and 2 drops at night but now it will be a longer hold: 5 weeks (35 days), because when I was in the last dose (2 drops in the morning and 2 drops at night) I was feeling good and I was able to meditate. 

Each drop is 2.5mg of tramadol. I talked via direct/private message of SA (inbox) with mammaP for asking her which is the best form of tramadol to taper and she told me that the one I'm using (drops diluted in water) is the best way. Of course I'm still taking daily one 50mg pristiq tablet in the morning, one IR 100mg quetiapine tablet at night, the 1.5mg melatonin tablet at night, and the supplements: one fish oil capsule in the morning and one at night, 2 magnesium capsules in the morning and 2 at night, 1 ginko biloba capsule in the morning and one "neurovit" capsule in the morning (neurovit contains vitamin B1, B2, B6, B12, glutamic acid, HCI lysine, sodium glycerophosphate, nicotinamide, calcium pantothenate and folic acid). These last 5 days have been hell for me, I've been crying every night because of the terrible situation and because I was not able to meditate. This is a nightmare. I just updated the whole tramadol tapering in my signature. Obviously this caused me to feel more hopelessness than ever. I appreciate so much your time and caring for reading me.

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Altostrata

papaloapan, don't blame yourself. Sometimes you need to rest before the last stretch.

 

You're doing the right thing in updosing a bit. You'll be able to go off by tiny amounts later.

 

Can you get an oral syringe that measures 0.5mL or 1mL? That will enable you to make smaller drops. Veterinarians might have them, to treat baby animals.

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papaloapan

Thank you so much Altostrata. The tramadol that I am taking right now is a generic. In my pharmacy there is only this generic and one patent version. I didn't convert into the patent version because I thought that my body already got used to the generic. So I have always used the generic. I know that generics can be low quality/sloppy. So should I convert to the patent version? Or should I keep taking the same generic?

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SkyBlue
4 hours ago, papaloapan said:

Thank you so much Altostrata. The tramadol that I am taking right now is a generic. In my pharmacy there is only this generic and one patent version. I didn't convert into the patent version because I thought that my body already got used to the generic. So I have always used the generic. I know that generics can be low quality/sloppy. So should I convert to the patent version? Or should I keep taking the same generic?

Hi p,

 

We generally recommend sticking with whatever formulation you've been taking. If you've been taking generic, probably best to stick with generic. For some reason, people can have trouble switching formulations.

 

You've been doing great with your taper! This requires a lot of diligence and patience and I see you're showing those! : )

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