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Evening relief window


ShakeyJerr
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I've mentioned this in my own thread, and seen other people mention it too - so I thought I would start an official topic so we can share information and ideas.

 

Most every evening I get an nearly complete relief of symptoms around 7-ish (with exceptions on extremely stressful and/or physically active days, and excluding the first couple of weeks of my withdrawal) The relief window takes me through to bed time and lasts until I wake up with high anxiety anywhere between 2am and 4am .

 

I used to call it "my false friend" because it was a tease of how life could be after withdrawal, but then it would leave again.

 

Now I look forward to it and protect/cherish it.

 

Anybody else experiencing this?

 

What are your evenings like just before it comes? What are you doing? Do you have a routine?

 

 

A typical timeline for me is:

 

2am to 4am - Wake up with high anxiety. Go to bathroom. Try to go back to bed. Toss and turn. Pray.

 

5am - Get out of bed. Feed cat. Drink adrenal cocktail. Maybe have a decaf black tea or chamomile tea. Pace. Pray. Take 100mg of Mag-Glycinate.

 

6am - Panic Attack!

 

6am (work days) - Take blood pressure med, shower, and leave for work.

 

6am (non-work days) - Lay down, panic, get up, pace, pray.

 

6:30am - Eat a little something.

 

Daytime - Various levels of anxiety. Drink (either in water or decaf black tea) 100mg of theanine twice during the day.

 

11-ish: Take a walk.

 

4:30pm (work days) - Get home. Still have anxiety. Interact with daughter. Prepare kitchen for dinner. 

 

6-ish - Wife joins us. We make dinner.

 

6:30 - Eat dinner. Clean up.

 

7ish - Go upstairs to read. Anxiety begins to subside. Might doze a little or just zone out. Pray with wife. Chat a bit.

 

10-ish - Go to sleep. Fall asleep rather quickly.

 

 

Anybody see anything in my routine that is promoting the evening relief window? Or something in there that is keeping me from getting it earlier in the day. Or something that I can do to get it to kick in earlier?

 

What is your routine like if you are also getting the evening relief window?

 

Comparing notes might help.

 

SJ

 

Main thread: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/14472-shakeyjerr-say-hello/

History: Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003. Ended up back on after 4 months because taking a beta-blocker caused immediate depression (just 2 doses - turned out I didn't even need it; I had no other withdrawal symptoms - I might have ended up med and withdrawal-free otherwise :(). - Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) in 2010. - Did a self-taper during 2016. - Developed Discontinuation Syndrome 02/17.

Supplements: Magnesium-Glycinate 400mg split into 4 100mg doses throughout the day. Vitamin C 500mg - once per day. Fish Oil 1360 mg (950 mg Active Omega-3) - twice per day.

I'm not a doctor. I use the internet, experience, and trial & error. Seek medical advice if necessary.

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Many people say they feel worse in am due to cortisol levels being up. Maybe also in evening the reading calms you down. Maybe try to read a bit in afternoon when you are home.

200 Zoloft; 10 mg Zyprexa; 4 mg valium as of May 2021;  Valium taper: July 16: 3.5 valium; July 30: 3 mg (paused valium taper); Aug. 23: 2.5 mg
Zyprexa: July 26: 8.75 mg; Aug. 9: 7.5 mg; Aug. 30: 7.1 mg

-------
Dec 1, 2016. 10 mg zyprexa for 1.5 month. Started taper mid-Jan. 2017. Cut 1.25 mg every 2 weeks; smaller cuts 2.5 mg down. Stopped at .6 mg. May 7, 2017: zyprexa free. 
Zoloft: Dec1, 2016, 200 mg. Started taper: Jun12, 2017: 197.5 mg; Jun19,:195 mg; July 2:185mg; July 9,:180 mg; July16,: 175; July 23: 170; July 30: 165; Aug6: 160; Aug13: 155; Aug. 20: 150; Aug.27: 146 mg; Sept3: 145 mg; Sept10:143 mg; Sept17:140 mg....Nov5: 122 mg...Dec3:112.5 mg; Jan14, 2018: 95 mg...Jan28: 90 mg; Feb21:80 mg; Mar11: 75 mg; May2:70 mg; May15: 68 mg; May28: 65 mg; Jun9: 62 mg;Jun25: 60 mg:July22: 55 mg; Aug25: 45 mg. Aug28: 50 mg...Oct 28: 38 mg; Dec.4: 30 mg; Jan8,2019: 25mg; Feb6: 23.5 mg; Apr1:17.5mg; May1:1 mg; May 5: 18;  May 18:15mg; June 16:12.5mg; Sept 10:11 mg; Sept.16:10 mg; Oct. 1: 9mg; Nov. 27: 8mg; Dec.5: 7mg; Jan.1,2020, 6 mg; Feb1: 5 mg; May 1: 2.5 mg; Jn 1: 2 mg; Jy 1: 1.5 mg

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Many people say they feel worse in am due to cortisol levels being up. Maybe also in evening the reading calms you down. Maybe try to read a bit in afternoon when you are home.

 

Cortisol spikes - me hates them! Yes, that is definitely at play during the day.

 

But then to just get a drop off to zero just like that in the evening seems so strange.

 

I have tried reading during the day, but it ramps me up. Probably a trick of the anxiety/restlessness. But you are right; I should try to revisit it as a daytime thing.

 

Do you get the Evening Relief Window?

 

SJ

Main thread: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/14472-shakeyjerr-say-hello/

History: Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003. Ended up back on after 4 months because taking a beta-blocker caused immediate depression (just 2 doses - turned out I didn't even need it; I had no other withdrawal symptoms - I might have ended up med and withdrawal-free otherwise :(). - Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) in 2010. - Did a self-taper during 2016. - Developed Discontinuation Syndrome 02/17.

Supplements: Magnesium-Glycinate 400mg split into 4 100mg doses throughout the day. Vitamin C 500mg - once per day. Fish Oil 1360 mg (950 mg Active Omega-3) - twice per day.

I'm not a doctor. I use the internet, experience, and trial & error. Seek medical advice if necessary.

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I used to often feel worse in morning

200 Zoloft; 10 mg Zyprexa; 4 mg valium as of May 2021;  Valium taper: July 16: 3.5 valium; July 30: 3 mg (paused valium taper); Aug. 23: 2.5 mg
Zyprexa: July 26: 8.75 mg; Aug. 9: 7.5 mg; Aug. 30: 7.1 mg

-------
Dec 1, 2016. 10 mg zyprexa for 1.5 month. Started taper mid-Jan. 2017. Cut 1.25 mg every 2 weeks; smaller cuts 2.5 mg down. Stopped at .6 mg. May 7, 2017: zyprexa free. 
Zoloft: Dec1, 2016, 200 mg. Started taper: Jun12, 2017: 197.5 mg; Jun19,:195 mg; July 2:185mg; July 9,:180 mg; July16,: 175; July 23: 170; July 30: 165; Aug6: 160; Aug13: 155; Aug. 20: 150; Aug.27: 146 mg; Sept3: 145 mg; Sept10:143 mg; Sept17:140 mg....Nov5: 122 mg...Dec3:112.5 mg; Jan14, 2018: 95 mg...Jan28: 90 mg; Feb21:80 mg; Mar11: 75 mg; May2:70 mg; May15: 68 mg; May28: 65 mg; Jun9: 62 mg;Jun25: 60 mg:July22: 55 mg; Aug25: 45 mg. Aug28: 50 mg...Oct 28: 38 mg; Dec.4: 30 mg; Jan8,2019: 25mg; Feb6: 23.5 mg; Apr1:17.5mg; May1:1 mg; May 5: 18;  May 18:15mg; June 16:12.5mg; Sept 10:11 mg; Sept.16:10 mg; Oct. 1: 9mg; Nov. 27: 8mg; Dec.5: 7mg; Jan.1,2020, 6 mg; Feb1: 5 mg; May 1: 2.5 mg; Jn 1: 2 mg; Jy 1: 1.5 mg

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I used to often feel worse in morning

 

Mornings appear to be the worst for most of us. Darn cortisol!

 

But so many of us get that couple of hours of window in the evening. Could it just be the cortisol has finally left the building for a while? Or is there something in our routines that we all seem to do that gives us that evening relief? That is the conundrum!

 

SJ

Main thread: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/14472-shakeyjerr-say-hello/

History: Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003. Ended up back on after 4 months because taking a beta-blocker caused immediate depression (just 2 doses - turned out I didn't even need it; I had no other withdrawal symptoms - I might have ended up med and withdrawal-free otherwise :(). - Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) in 2010. - Did a self-taper during 2016. - Developed Discontinuation Syndrome 02/17.

Supplements: Magnesium-Glycinate 400mg split into 4 100mg doses throughout the day. Vitamin C 500mg - once per day. Fish Oil 1360 mg (950 mg Active Omega-3) - twice per day.

I'm not a doctor. I use the internet, experience, and trial & error. Seek medical advice if necessary.

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Maybe a bit of both

200 Zoloft; 10 mg Zyprexa; 4 mg valium as of May 2021;  Valium taper: July 16: 3.5 valium; July 30: 3 mg (paused valium taper); Aug. 23: 2.5 mg
Zyprexa: July 26: 8.75 mg; Aug. 9: 7.5 mg; Aug. 30: 7.1 mg

-------
Dec 1, 2016. 10 mg zyprexa for 1.5 month. Started taper mid-Jan. 2017. Cut 1.25 mg every 2 weeks; smaller cuts 2.5 mg down. Stopped at .6 mg. May 7, 2017: zyprexa free. 
Zoloft: Dec1, 2016, 200 mg. Started taper: Jun12, 2017: 197.5 mg; Jun19,:195 mg; July 2:185mg; July 9,:180 mg; July16,: 175; July 23: 170; July 30: 165; Aug6: 160; Aug13: 155; Aug. 20: 150; Aug.27: 146 mg; Sept3: 145 mg; Sept10:143 mg; Sept17:140 mg....Nov5: 122 mg...Dec3:112.5 mg; Jan14, 2018: 95 mg...Jan28: 90 mg; Feb21:80 mg; Mar11: 75 mg; May2:70 mg; May15: 68 mg; May28: 65 mg; Jun9: 62 mg;Jun25: 60 mg:July22: 55 mg; Aug25: 45 mg. Aug28: 50 mg...Oct 28: 38 mg; Dec.4: 30 mg; Jan8,2019: 25mg; Feb6: 23.5 mg; Apr1:17.5mg; May1:1 mg; May 5: 18;  May 18:15mg; June 16:12.5mg; Sept 10:11 mg; Sept.16:10 mg; Oct. 1: 9mg; Nov. 27: 8mg; Dec.5: 7mg; Jan.1,2020, 6 mg; Feb1: 5 mg; May 1: 2.5 mg; Jn 1: 2 mg; Jy 1: 1.5 mg

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got an hour window lastnight ,i noticed that i was relaxed and it  unnerved me then nasty intrusive thoughts come back ,sleep ok but vivid dreams and nightmares make me wonder of the quality of sleep .

Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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The same thing happens to me. Nearly everyday I feel better in the evening. Sometimes it's longer...no pattern that I know of. At most, I get 6 hours of sleep a night, usually 5. I used to need 8 to feel good.

Thinking it was cortisol, I started taking 1200 mg Ashwagandha in the evening before bed. I have taken it for 4 days. After a few more days, I may up the dose. I also take no caffeine and try to stay away from sugar. During the day, I basically push myself to do anything. Anxiety comes and goes...the ashwagandha may be helping.

Oct 2016. 20 years fluoxetine (20 mg) and bupropion (400 mg). Ceased fluoxetine without taper and bupropion after 4 wk taper. Initial extreme fatigue resolved into moderate fatigue and depression with occasional brain zaps and tingling skin.
Oct 2017. Anhedonia, 90% of my day. Occasional anxiety. Milder brain zaps. In past two weeks, 3 window days and 11 wave days.
May 2019. Anhedonia, infrequent anxiety, mild brain zaps. Sleeping 6 hours nightly after lifetime of 8 hours. Typical daily pattern is wave until late afternoon, window until bedtime. Occasional full day windows.
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got an hour window lastnight ,i noticed that i was relaxed and it  unnerved me then nasty intrusive thoughts come back ,sleep ok but vivid dreams and nightmares make me wonder of the quality of sleep .

 

Your windows will get wider, PB. You are in a rough patch, to be sure. But there is healing to be had, and you will have it.

 

I wonder if there is something you are doing or watching or ruminating over in the evenings that is affecting your dreams. I know I have had to be extremely careful about what media I watch or read, and where I let my thoughts go. Most TV shows are off limits to me right now. And I also am not reading any novels because the few times I tried to distract myself with those, I had very bad nights as far as sleep and dreams are concerned.

 

Let's examine some of your activities and see if we can find some culprits.

 

SJ

Main thread: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/14472-shakeyjerr-say-hello/

History: Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003. Ended up back on after 4 months because taking a beta-blocker caused immediate depression (just 2 doses - turned out I didn't even need it; I had no other withdrawal symptoms - I might have ended up med and withdrawal-free otherwise :(). - Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) in 2010. - Did a self-taper during 2016. - Developed Discontinuation Syndrome 02/17.

Supplements: Magnesium-Glycinate 400mg split into 4 100mg doses throughout the day. Vitamin C 500mg - once per day. Fish Oil 1360 mg (950 mg Active Omega-3) - twice per day.

I'm not a doctor. I use the internet, experience, and trial & error. Seek medical advice if necessary.

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The same thing happens to me. Nearly everyday I feel better in the evening. Sometimes it's longer...no pattern that I know of. At most, I get 6 hours of sleep a night, usually 5. I used to need 8 to feel good.

Thinking it was cortisol, I started taking 1200 mg Ashwagandha in the evening before bed. I have taken it for 4 days. After a few more days, I may up the dose. I also take no caffeine and try to stay away from sugar. During the day, I basically push myself to do anything. Anxiety comes and goes...the ashwagandha may be helping.

 

I have been thinking about trying Ashwagandha. It's supposed to be very good for adrenal fatigue. But I became so supplement and food sensitive early on in my withdrawal that I am gun-shy of trying anything. Right now, it's just Magnesium Glycinate and Theanine for me. If I add something, it will be a probiotic. 

 

SJ

Main thread: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/14472-shakeyjerr-say-hello/

History: Prozac & Lithium from 1999 to 2003. Ended up back on after 4 months because taking a beta-blocker caused immediate depression (just 2 doses - turned out I didn't even need it; I had no other withdrawal symptoms - I might have ended up med and withdrawal-free otherwise :(). - Switched to Effexor (75mg 3/day) and Seroquel (50mg 3/day) in 2010. - Did a self-taper during 2016. - Developed Discontinuation Syndrome 02/17.

Supplements: Magnesium-Glycinate 400mg split into 4 100mg doses throughout the day. Vitamin C 500mg - once per day. Fish Oil 1360 mg (950 mg Active Omega-3) - twice per day.

I'm not a doctor. I use the internet, experience, and trial & error. Seek medical advice if necessary.

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got an hour window lastnight ,i noticed that i was relaxed and it  unnerved me then nasty intrusive thoughts come back ,sleep ok but vivid dreams and nightmares make me wonder of the quality of sleep .

 

Your windows will get wider, PB. You are in a rough patch, to be sure. But there is healing to be had, and you will have it.

 

I wonder if there is something you are doing or watching or ruminating over in the evenings that is affecting your dreams. I know I have had to be extremely careful about what media I watch or read, and where I let my thoughts go. Most TV shows are off limits to me right now. And I also am not reading any novels because the few times I tried to distract myself with those, I had very bad nights as far as sleep and dreams are concerned.

 

Let's examine some of your activities and see if we can find some culprits.

 

SJ

 

 

Hi sj  u could be on to something there ,I'm a big fan of crime documentary's ,but a lot of my dreams are to do with life experience and challenges .I'm a big fan of carl young ,he has great work on analysing dreams and the subconscious .my ruminating would win gold in the Olympics ,but sadly it does me no favours .

I had a lovely few days visiting my niece ,it wasn't a symptom free break but she is a tonic for me ,but I also get overwhelmed with emotion so I am always scanning my thoughts .

 

hope you keeping well and safe yourself.

 

PB    

Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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But so many of us get that couple of hours of window in the evening. Could it just be the cortisol has finally left the building for a while? Or is there something in our routines that we all seem to do that gives us that evening relief? That is the conundrum!

 

SJ

This has been my pattern too, for the entire time I've been recovering. It doesn't seem to be connected with anything I do, just the progression of time during the day.

 

It seems to be connected with our natural, daily cortisol cycles. We have a discussion topic where many members have shared their own experiences of this common phenomenon, along with some ideas about how to manage.

 

Here is the existing topic: Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing cortisol spikes - Symptoms ...

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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I had noticed this too, when I was reinstating Celexa three and a half years ago.

 

It felt like I struggled all day to get to a tiny patch of reasonable feeling in the evening, and then the next (early) morning I would be back where I started.

Celexa (Citalopram)    40mg  - 60mg - 40mg for 7 years          Tapered (over 3 months) drug-free Aug–Nov 2013 CRASH

40mg    Dec 2013 – Jan 2017 (7 weeks reinstatement hell then relief)

2017:    20mg    30 Jan       18mg   19 April          16mg   6 May          14mg   20 May      12mg  10 Jun

              10mg   7 July          9mg    7 Aug               8mg     16 Oct          7.5mg  27 Nov         

2018:    7mg      8 Jan          6.5mg  12 Feb          6mg  17 Mar            5.2mg  14 Apr      5mg  28 Apr

             4.8mg  4 Jun           4.6mg   23 Jun         4.4mg   24 Jul          4.2mg 13 Aug      4mg  20 Aug

             3.8mg  1 Sep           3.6mg  28 Sep          3.4mg  14 Oct          3.2mg  11 Nov     3mg  5 Dec

             5mg    26 Dec          10mg  28 Dec

Added Valdoxan 25mg   12 Dec 2018      stopped 24 Jan 2019

Wellbutrin 150mg     25 Jan

 

 

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