Ryder: Zoloft to clomipramine

[Altostrata]

Hi, Ryder, I'm just catching up here. First off, I want to commend our fine moderators scallywag, AliG, baroquep, ChessieCat, and mammaP for their excellent contributions. You have been in good hands.

 

How are you doing on 100mg Zoloft? It will take at least 4 days to get to steady-state in your bloodstream. Please stay calm, you may see symptom fluctuation while your body adjusts again to the changes. Please be very consistent in taking your drugs at the same time and dosages each day.

 

What times of day do you take that and your clonazepam doses? Are you taking anything else now?

 

Yes, that symptom pattern record is very important. Thank you for keeping such good records of your drug changes. We need to see how your symptoms change, too. Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages.

 

4 hours ago, Ryder said:

when I report my symtoms to Doc that I want to come off or that I am feeling better, so I am advised to taper down to roughly 50-25mg of Sert. Then I jump on to SA and have to decide.

 

Yes, this is exactly what's going on. If you read back in this topic, you can see that if those 25mg vacillations worked for you, you'd be off the drug by now.  Instead, you have been alternating withdrawal symptoms and drug reactions for months. No wonder your poor body broke out in a rash. It's trying to tell you something.

 

As you stabilize on one daily dosage, it may take some time for your nervous system and body symptoms to settle down. Please let us know how you're doing as the days go on.

 

Many people here take their drugs irregularly, as you have, out of anxiety and frustration. Please consider how this has been working for you.

 

The reason we have explained how to make a liquid from sertraline is so that you can make adjustments that are smaller than 25mg (I assume that's a quarter of one of your tablets). There are nearly infinite gradations between 100mg and 75mg, for example. The liquid enables you to make changes in very small gradations so as not to shock your nervous system.

 

Our most common recommendations are 10% adjustments, which seem small enough for most to tolerate, but an increase or decrease can be in any percentage.

 

Your doctor is probably unaware that one can take a drug in dosages of any number of milligrams. He or she may never have heard of titrating with a liquid.

 

4 hours ago, Ryder said:

I like the idea of and sticking with it. It is actually so simple and repeated over and over on this forum. It's something I  have to be willing to re-learn to be patient once more. It's just a matter now talk is cheap and puttin it back into action. 100mg I have taken today and Yesterday. Feel O.K. I want to ask. Is it normal to feel like you don't want to do anything even when presented with opportunities.

 

Slow and steady is a simple idea but it takes discipline. Please make a note of how you're feeling today in your daily record. This will remind you that, even if you get odd symptoms, 100mg seems okay, at least when you initially take it.

 

On 2/23/2018 at 1:13 AM, Ryder said:

When I explained I have been feeling panicky and like numb (De-personalizeation) on 125mg of Sertraline during this past week, my GP again said try it out for 10 days! It's enough no more. I have taken 125mg for about 3 days this week, I started getting muscle twitches and intensely nervous :(.

 

Your body is telling you 125mg sertraline is too much for you. Please don't make this increase again.

 

On 6/24/2017 at 2:43 AM, Ryder said:

A different doctor said they will have NO effect and suggested I just pursue meditation, yoga and excercise and really come off the medication really slowly.

 

^ This is pretty much what we recommend.

 

Ryder, here is your assignment:

 

- Take 100mg sertraline and your clonazepam doses on a regular daily schedule. Don't improvise.

- Keep daily notes, hour by hour if need be, of your symptoms. We also need to know if they get better or worse as time goes on.

- Let us know how you're doing. You don't have to post here every day, you can keep in touch when you see significant changes. (Or you can post every day if you wish.)

- Let us know immediately if you get a very bad reaction. (Please note, this site is not staffed 24 hours a day, our response may take some hours.)

- Stay as calm as possible. Your symptoms may not go away immediately. You need to be a calm observer of your own symptoms so you can make good decisions.

 

And please -- stop jumping around with your drug dosages!!!!

 

PS Magnesium can help with muscle pain. Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

[Ryder]

On 2/25/2018 at 6:26 AM, ChessieCat said:

 

It is "normal": disconnect-between-interest-and-actionmotivation

 

 

 

The drug notes are helpful but as mammaP said below we need you to add the symptoms:

 

 

Please do this for the next 3 days and then post them here in your Intro topic.  This will help the mods to assess your situation and offer suggestions.

 

O.k. I am going to chart my symptoms from what I've written down from the past 10-days to give some understanding. I wrote these down next to my dose with small descriptions.

It's a bit embarrassing but thats whats needed. I will make a post after following 3-days as I know there will be waves and I don't want to bombard this forum. Sigh ok.

 

 

Date - Drug/dosemg - Notes & Symptoms, Sleep.                            

 

 

 

16/Feb/2018 - 125mg (Sert)/4mg Clon - Dinner with family, trouble maintaining concentration but O.K sleep. 

17/Feb/2018 - 0mg(Sert)/4mg Clon - Rest from 125mg. Sleep not so good.

Sunday 18th Feb - 100mg/6mg Clon - 100mg still causing pain.

Monday 19th Feb - 125mg/4mg - No sleep, back pain, eye pain, stress.

Tues 20th Feb - 125mg/ 6mg clon - Had broken bike (bicycle tyre) panicky, flat tyre again on way home. Used L-Carnintine for Muscle soreness.

Wed 21 Feb - 100mg/6mg Clon - Saw silly movie. Fell asleep 2:30 a.m. Wrote down wish to come of Sert and saw GP that day.

Thurs 22nd Feb - 125mg/4mg Clon - Retrieved Cycle for second flat tyre! - "Depressed on 125mg". 'Broke me today' is what I wrote. Partly getting back my bike in order ordeal. Asleep 3.A.m

Friday 23rd Feb - 100mg/4mg - Didn't feel so well. Sleep not so well. Took L-Carnitine and felt dizzy.

Saturday 24th Feb 100mg/4mg - L-Carnitine and Introduced CoQ10 - Felt confusion, anger, memory loss, lost afk where I was in house. Crying spells. Sleep 6.a.m.-12p.m.

Sunday 25th Feb 100mg/4mg Clon - LCarn/CoQ10 - Same symtoms of anger rage, confusion. Crying Spells my mother came round as I explained I did not know what to do :/. Removed CoQ10 from shelf. Sleep 3.a.m-9:30a.m

 

As for today, I noted that I took 100mg for the days I checked in here. I did fizzle out towards the ends of those days. Parents have advised what you have advised just to stick with your dose. I note Alto has stated it will take 4 days or so to work (even if I don't like it, and theres no logical sense) 125mg for today and this week. That's just the number i'm sticking (No logic to it just balancing advice that I may need it from GP, need to stick on it regardless of how I feel, and need to pick a dose.) Noting also you guys have recommended 100mg. Alto has also asked how I am/was doing 100mg Sertraline on my overall period. Overall: not good. When I initially take it it feels ok you are right. At the end I am capiche. Also I take Clonazepam before bed even if I am struggling just so I know i have something to switch off from.

 

As for my ambition Ches, that first link you sent over to me, user 'Brighteningup' made this post to which summarizes my mood and disconnect. I also realize not to use this as an excuse here it is:

 

 

"Wow this is a fascinating.

 

One of the reasons I wanted off the ADs was they seemed to have made me really de-motivated.

 

Less stressed out, less emotional in any direction. The first 2-3 months this was a relief. After that it wasn't.

 

For the first time in my life I found myself going back to bed in the morning. This never happened when I'd been depressed and anxious before but not on ADs. I found it really hard to do anything much. It was worse from about 3 months in. It was one of the reasons I was so keen to get off them. This feeling persisted off and on as I tapered off.

 

The good news is that I'm finally starting to get my energy back and hopefully my motivation too, though it's not back to normal yet.

 

This topic actually gives me hope, before the ADs I could always manage to get myself motivated somehow. During the ADs it was really hard, now as I'm post AD hopefully this motivation will come back as my system re-sets itself.

 

I'm fascinated that I have experienced this too, even tho' I was on the meds a much shorter time than most people here. Althoughin my case, my HPA axis feedback mechanism may have been already been a bit messed up prior to the ADs, by topical corticosteroids, which probably didn't help either.

 

Here's to more good days for everyone.

 

Best,

 

Bright"

 

Alto, MammaP, Ches I will be checking in 3-days as to not bombard you with a twitter feed as these waves are to be expected.

Alto I have also been taking magnezium - This has been good. I struggle taking fish oil. Maybe when I am ready to taper.

 

It means alot for your care and support as I try and piece my body back together.

 

Sincerely,

Ryder.

 

                                                                                       

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

41 minutes ago, Ryder said:

125mg for today and this week. That's just the number i'm sticking (No logic to it just balancing advice that I may need it from GP, need to stick on it regardless of how I feel, and need to pick a dose.)

 

This is what Alto said about your dose:

 

On 25/02/2018 at 8:40 AM, Altostrata said:

Your body is telling you 125mg sertraline is too much for you. Please don't make this increase again.

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by ChessieCat

[Ryder]

She is right. Took 125mg in the morning when checked in here and gave it a go. Yup, 25mg vacillations stagger me and it is not my dose either.

I am back down to 100mg tomorrow and stick with the assignment alto gave me instead of thinking I know better.

[Ryder]

On 2/25/2018 at 8:40 AM, Altostrata said:

 

Your doctor is probably unaware that one can take a drug in dosages of any number of milligrams. He or she may never have heard of titrating with a liquid.

 

 

Slow and steady is a simple idea but it takes discipline. Please make a note of how you're feeling today in your daily record. This will remind you that, even if you get odd symptoms, 100mg seems okay, at least when you initially take it.

 

 

Your body is telling you 125mg sertraline is too much for you. Please don't make this increase again.

 

 

^ This is pretty much what we recommend.

 

Ryder, here is your assignment:

 

- Take 100mg sertraline and your clonazepam doses on a regular daily schedule. Don't improvise.

- Keep daily notes, hour by hour if need be, of your symptoms. We also need to know if they get better or worse as time goes on.

- Let us know how you're doing. You don't have to post here every day, you can keep in touch when you see significant changes. (Or you can post every day if you wish.)

- Let us know immediately if you get a very bad reaction. (Please note, this site is not staffed 24 hours a day, our response may take some hours.)

- Stay as calm as possible. Your symptoms may not go away immediately. You need to be a calm observer of your own symptoms so you can make good decisions.

 

And please -- stop jumping around with your drug dosages!!!!

 

PS Magnesium can help with muscle pain. Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Hi Folks,

 

Checking in post 3 days after I was given an assignment from alto. 125mg as recommended by my Doc - Not good. 100mg as taken in my assignment still - no good. There were alot of windows and waves so I resisted the temptation to post daily. After 100mg of Sertraline I stayed on it Tues, Wed, Thurs today a Friday in Australia where the timezone where I live.

 

On the Monday, yes I could not function on 125mg Sert. Went on a gut feeling that perhaps I was wrong and my GP (A doc I trust - since I was just a wee boy) said 'keep trying'. Symtoms included: Red face, Rash, Tight muscles, Racing thoughts etc. Interesting I took a run with Dog in evening to try ease anxiety symptoms and whilst they did a bit I was still so agitated. Also, I had ALOT of confusion I wrote down during that run. Also I had been running/swimming atleast 3 times per week. But as i'm not getting restful sleep and not repair alot of the muscle that is used/broken down to repair, I can see that other muscles in legs as such are feeling the crunch of over-excercise so I have stopped for the week. Also before on Sunday 25th (100mg) was going bonkers. In an attempt to calm the mind & body I re-claimed some supplements CoQ10 with LCarnitine to try calm the body. They just gave me furious anger towards the slighest thing - agitation, especially my parents. That is another reason I guess I chose to knock up the 125mg on Monday. I guess 'gut feeling' mixed with a messy mind gives you massively incorrect intuition/judgement.

 

For the 3 days I took 100mg Sert, 4mg Clonaz. My symptoms I wrote were and are:

• Back cramps spasms, eye cramps, balance, confusion, real bad driving so I have stopped and cycle instead.
• Insomnia (Asleep from 4:30 a.m - 11 Monday 125mg) (3:30-10:30 a.m Tues 100mg) (Wednesday 3:30am - 7:am) - I felt like i was drunk/stoned yesterday and I almost fell asleep at the wheel. I had to pull over with a friend just to get something to eat and drive home only 2-3 Kilometres at a slow 35-40km/hr/
• SO i tell you guys I have this rash on my face that gives me a physicalogical indicator of my stress. It increasingly got worse my stress and the rash followed dotted rash, pretty red.
• Re-introduced L-carn this morning to give my body some relief as I just crashed during the day today.
• Haven't even bothered touching the Sertraline as I am considering going into hospital to seek treatment. I know you guys gave me a solid plan. I followed it (barring the first day -125mg) was on 100mg before and after these days and still felt awful.

I am considering this approach because the pain management situation well, its not manageable. I don't want to be a burden on my parents who have taken ample time to look after me even though they are divorced an I'm an adult in my mid - late 20's. I pushed myself out of my comfort zone last night to go out of home and be around people at a function. I was tearing/welling up inside because of the ammount of symptoms of anxiety and strong pain either the medicine or whatever it is giving me.

 

I just really tried even before these weeks to push it. And perhaps I need a change in meds or come off completely. To be frank, I wouldn't know how to piece my life and myself back together again I really did try and I guess my spirit is a bit broken.

 

100mg/4mg clon for 3 days. Manezium + Calcium for supplements.

 

Sincerely,

 

Ryder.

[ChessieCat]

8 minutes ago, Ryder said:

Manezium + Calcium for supplements

 

Magnesium and calcium should be taken at different times.  I have seen magnesium with calcium tablets in the chemist.  However I have read in the magnesium topic here on the site that they should be taken separately.

[ChessieCat]

9 minutes ago, Ryder said:

I pushed myself out of my comfort zone last night to go out of home and be around people at a function.

 

Pushing yourself adds stress.  Adding stress means that your brain has to divert its attention away from healing to deal with the stress.

[ChessieCat]

11 minutes ago, Ryder said:

Haven't even bothered touching the Sertraline as I am considering going into hospital to seek treatment. I know you guys gave me a solid plan. I followed it (barring the first day -125mg) was on 100mg before and after these days and still felt awful.

 

It takes 4 days for a dose change to get to full state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

[Ryder]

Yes it is distressing for mind and body, calcium I just take before bed if need be - It helps me to sleep for some reason.

Also just take half tab magnezium in morning.

 

75mg will be my current dose for this week and whilst its not pleasant, I can see my irritability has gone down which is a positive thing.

[ChessieCat]

Had to google calcium and sleep and found this:

 

"Calcium helps the brain use the amino acid tryptophan to manufacture the sleep-inducing substance melatonin. This explains why dairy products, which contain both tryptophan and calcium, are one of the top sleep-inducing foods." In magnesium deficiency, chronic insomnia is one of the main, central symptoms."

 

I might start taking mine at night instead of my magnesium.

[Ryder]

I read the Dare book written Barry McDonagh that gets to the core of ones anxiety. His consensus like you guys is magnezium(Glycinate) as the only real supplement to work with. His recommendation was to use + calcium helps with absorption. Those are the two supplements he recommends in his book so I take both before bed.

 

I use L-Carnitine was because of a Naturopaths advice grrr. in my experience. it does ease muscle relaxation. HOWEVER, you feel your cognition go It is sort of a back up. With L-Carnitine I would not recommend taking it to anyone here as it can become very addictive, hard to come off and you become dependent to it and can cause long-term damage.

[ChessieCat]

3 hours ago, Ryder said:

His consensus like you guys is magnezium(Glycinate) as the only real supplement to work with. His recommendation was to use + calcium helps with absorption. Those are the two supplements he recommends in his book so I take both before bed.

 

In SA's magnesium topic is says not to take magnesium and calcium at the same time.

 

You might find these helpful:

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)
 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

[Ryder]

Hi SA,

 

Just wanted to update here on my situation and am reaching out for help.

 

As you know from my recent drug history in the past 24months I have been on Sertraline jumping up and down to find my correct dose. I was a year and a half on 200mg before I thought... shite I want to come off and was bouncing 50 > 75 > 100 after a period of going Cold Turkey. I was never able to re- stabilise my therapeutic dose. Since I CT’D roughly for about 5-6months.

 

Over the summer/autumn period here in Australia I admitted myself into hospital as I just wasn’t able to find my feet and was feeling, the lowest I’ve felt. I looked at my future and felt suicidal during the preceding weeks I came in here. I am not feeling suicidal no more once I was able to explain my situation to the nurses and doctors in here which is good news. (I’m at the Northside, St Leonard’s, Sydney for those who are in Oz or just want to know.) 

 

However, I need some advise. I explained that the Sertraline is no longer working. The docs and nurses improvised quite an ‘aggressive’ tapering schedule when I came in at 75mg. Within two weeks I went from 75 > 50 > 25 mg to now 0. This was bc they want to x taper me to clonipromine which is an “SRI” a new breed of drugs. I don’t want to go on bc I know the journey. I even tried to explain this to parents but they don’t understand. I feel the taper was wayy to fast and while Sertraline is uncomfortable, I want to propose to my doc tomorrow when I see him and walk up to his office (he’s a reasonable guy) to perhaps re-Instate Sertraline at a low low dose (maybe 25mg??) and when I’m ready in a few months, come off that way. I was also taking inconsistent doses of clonazepam 4-6 as previously noted as I just couldn’t find the balance of having restful sleep 💤. They also tapered that at the Clonaz at the same time to stick on 4mg for 2 weeks and this has remained constant. I guess a good thing to keep a regular schedule which I was unable to do when I first came, but overall a massive a shock to my system.

 

What do you guys think? Is my thinking correct here or should I accept that they know best. If you have used clomipromine, anybody please speak up.

 

Sincerely, 

Ryder

 

[Ryder]

Anybody ?

[Kristine]

21 hours ago, Ryder said:

However, I need some advise. I explained that the Sertraline is no longer working. The docs and nurses improvised quite an ‘aggressive’ tapering schedule when I came in at 75mg. Within two weeks I went from 75 > 50 > 25 mg to now 0. This was bc they want to x taper me to clonipromine which is an “SRI” a new breed of drugs. I don’t want to go on bc I know the journey. I even tried to explain this to parents but they don’t understand. I feel the taper was wayy to fast and while Sertraline is uncomfortable, I want to propose to my doc tomorrow when I see him and walk up to his office (he’s a reasonable guy) to perhaps re-Instate Sertraline at a low low dose (maybe 25mg??) and when I’m ready in a few months, come off that way. I was also taking inconsistent doses of clonazepam 4-6 as previously noted as I just couldn’t find the balance of having restful sleep 💤. They also tapered that at the Clonaz at the same time to stick on 4mg for 2 weeks and this has remained constant. I guess a good thing to keep a regular schedule which I was unable to do when I first came, but overall a massive a shock to my system.

 

What do you guys think? Is my thinking correct here or should I accept that they know best. If you have used clomipromine, anybody please speak up.

Hey Ryder, I am so sorry to read you are in hospital and you were taken off Sertraline so rapidly. I just wanted you to know you are not alone and also wanted to bump you up the thread...hopefully a mod will see this soon. Reinstating a small amount of setraline sounds wise (maybe even less than 25mg)....when was your last dose of sertraline? 

 

Thinking of you Ryder...I have been in your shoes before. Much Love. K 

 

[Kristine]

On 24/04/2018 at 10:46 PM, Ryder said:

I want to propose to my doc tomorrow when I see him and walk up to his office (he’s a reasonable guy) to perhaps re-Instate Sertraline at a low low dose (maybe 25mg??) and when I’m ready in a few months, come off that way.

Hey Ryder, Just checking in to see how you are. How did the appointment go? Much Love. K xo

[Ryder]

Hi Kristine,

 

I'm still here. Your Q: How did the appointment go? 

 

I basically handed myself in.

 

They wanted me to switch to Clomipramine from the day I reached 0mg Sertraline last Friday. I did ask about going back on Sertraline at 25mg.  He said that would be a mistake and 25mg has no use. I tried to explain the tapering process to no avail. One nurse who's son had a similar problem managed to stead clear her son of meds before he took any. She also agreed that i switch however for meantime to Clomipromine.

 

 

I have been able to make it to group therapy but i feel shattered bc Im unable to decipher if its withdrawals or just my OCD and anxiety 😞 

 

[Kristine]

27 minutes ago, Ryder said:

I'm still here. Your Q: How did the appointment go? 

 

I basically handed myself in.

 

They wanted me to switch to Clomipramine from the day I reached 0mg Sertraline last Friday. I did ask about going back on Sertraline at 25mg.  He said that would be a mistake and 25mg has no use. I tried to explain the tapering process to no avail. One nurse who's son had a similar problem managed to stead clear her son of meds before he took any. She also agreed that i switch however for meantime to Clomipromine.

 

 

I have been able to make it to group therapy but i feel shattered bc Im unable to decipher if its withdrawals or just my OCD and anxiety 😞 

I'm so sorry the psychiatrist didn't listen to you regarding tapering and I assume the benefit of reinstatement. As we know this is not uncommon. Have you started the clomipromine? If so, What dose? Have you been put on any more meds since going to hospital?  I understand how shattered you must feel. I'm so sorry you are going through this. Thinking of you. K....ps..no need to answer the questions if you are not up to it or feeling overwhelmed. 

[Ryder]

59 minutes ago, Kristine said:

I'm so sorry the psychiatrist didn't listen to you regarding tapering and I assume the benefit of reinstatement. As we know this is not uncommon. Have you started the clomipromine? If so, What dose? Have you been put on any more meds since going to hospital?  I understand how shattered you must feel. I'm so sorry you are going through this. Thinking of you. K....ps..no need to answer the questions if you are not up to it or feeling overwhelmed. 

 

Thats ok. You’re the only person who answered me really. I haven’t started the clomipromine as I asked him if I could have several days off on 0mg Sertraline and see if I could cope after 7 days.

 

Doc wants me to start on 25mg Clomipromine (Anafranil). 

 

Also I was on 6mg Klonazepam coming in here. Doc tapered that overnight to 4mg Klonazepam.   Complained abt 4mg Klonazepam & They added circadin (2mg - melatonin prolonged release) to help me sleep. I was cramping up in my sleep still am during group therapy w others. 

 

When to start ? They want me to start the clomipromine tonight. I guess on top of circadin, Klonazepam because it’s taken during night and makes you drowsy. This is now day 7 and past the deadline I agreed. 

 

If it were me, I’d go back on 25mg Sertraline. I would also put myself back on 6mg Klonaz but I’m naw a doctor. He just explained that 6mg of klonazepam is the equivalent of 16 standard drinks 🍷, and if you wanted to give someone amnesia that is how you’d do it. That scared the crap outta me but I’m pretty sure I got amnesia now anyway. I’m also not an advocate as I know it shrinks the brain after prolonged use. (3 years of use everyday for me on Klonazapam).

[Kristine]

16 hours ago, Ryder said:

Thats ok. You’re the only person who answered me really. I haven’t started the clomipromine as I asked him if I could have several days off on 0mg Sertraline and see if I could cope after 7 days.

Could you possibly negotiate and say something like "I would like to try reinstating a small amount of Sertraline and see if that helps ease my symptoms, if not, I may consider the clomipromine".....just an idea. 

16 hours ago, Ryder said:

Also I was on 6mg Klonazepam coming in here. Doc tapered that overnight to 4mg Klonazepam.   Complained abt 4mg Klonazepam & They added circadin (2mg - melatonin prolonged release) to help me sleep. I was cramping up in my sleep still am during group therapy w others. 

6mg is a massive dose of clonazepam. From my knowledge 4mg is the maximum dose. However, for the psychiatrist to remove 2mg overnight is brutal. So you are most probably suffering wd from both the clonazepam and the Sertraline. Clonazepam also acts as a muscle relaxant, so this may explain why you are suffering from cramping.

16 hours ago, Ryder said:

When to start ? They want me to start the clomipromine tonight. I guess on top of circadin, Klonazepam because it’s taken during night and makes you drowsy. This is now day 7 and past the deadline I agreed. 

 

If it were me, I’d go back on 25mg Sertraline. I would also put myself back on 6mg Klonaz but I’m naw a doctor. He just explained that 6mg of klonazepam is the equivalent of 16 standard drinks 🍷, and if you wanted to give someone amnesia that is how you’d do it. That scared the crap outta me but I’m pretty sure I got amnesia now anyway. I’m also not an advocate as I know it shrinks the brain after prolonged use. (3 years of use everyday for me on Klonazapam).

The doctor who first prescribed 6mg of clonazepam was incompetent. I'm so sorry you are going through all this Ryder...just try to keep updating. Thinking of you. K 

[Kristine]

Hey Ryder, how did your day go? Just letting you know I'm thinking of you. Much Love K 

[Ryder]

2 hours ago, Kristine said:

Hey Ryder, how did your day go? Just letting you know I'm thinking of you. Much Love K 

 

Hi Kristine,

 

Thanks,

 

• I refused the anafril past two nights (night time medication).
• Sleep is shite. Cramps etc. etc. 

 

My thoughts are either:

a. I’m over thinking it, and just take the new medication. I can see I’m struggling during the day.

b. I should take it because maybe I know too much (too much information) and leave it to those who know what to do with how my brain is operating. 

c. Trust and pray to G-d and leave it to him.

 

I’m pretty exhausted. To the point where I don’t sleep 💤. My doc said he won’t re-in State 25mg Sert. He won’t re-up the Klonaz, which might be good even though I don’t know where I am most the time. I’m guessing that forced sleep is bad when taking melatonin on top of this and the body’s giving you pain as a guide.

 

Hope this makes sense to you, I’m locking in option c as that is the only person I can talk to in this moment.

 

thinking of you to and thanks for looking out for me.

 

Sincerely,

Ryder.

 

 

[Ryder]

Hi all,

 

Been a while since I checked in.

Current taper was 75 - 50 - 25 > 0 in two weeks.

6 mg Clonazepam 1st week hospital. 

Dropped from (6mg 2nd week 4mg) > 4mg - 3 mg now.

 

Crossed tapered up to 150mg Clonipromine from week 3 here.

Been here for 6 wks.

[Ryder]

Request for mods to update post to include tapering of Anafranil(Clonipromine) in Header and Tag.

 

@Altostrata @ChessieCat

[Altostrata]

On 5/25/2018 at 4:09 AM, Ryder said:

Hi all,

 

Been a while since I checked in.

Current taper was 75 - 50 - 25 > 0 in two weeks.

6 mg Clonazepam 1st week hospital. 

Dropped from (6mg 2nd week 4mg) > 4mg - 3 mg now.

 

Crossed tapered up to 150mg Clonipromine from week 3 here.

Been here for 6 wks.

 

Ryder, how do you feel now? Why did the doctors decide clomipramine was the right drug for you?

 

What times of day do you take your drugs, and at what dosages? Are you still taking melatonin?

 

I am very sorry you've been having such difficulty with these drugs. I read your experience with Zoloft as a combination of side effects, which were improperly treated with clonazepam, withdrawal effects, and inconsistent dosing leading to nervous system instability.

 

Some of this was caused by your doctors' ignorance, and some by your own impatience and tendency to fiddle with your dosages.

 

You also seem convinced you need to take drugs to control your OCD. Do you intend to stay on your combination of drugs permanently?

 

[Ryder]

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Ryder, how do you feel now? Why did the doctors decide clomipramine was the right drug for you?

 

What times of day do you take your drugs, and at what dosages? Are you still taking melatonin?

 

I am very sorry you've been having such difficulty with these drugs. I read your experience with Zoloft as a combination of side effects, which were improperly treated with clonazepam, withdrawal effects, and inconsistent dosing leading to nervous system instability.

 

Some of this was caused by your doctors' ignorance, and some by your own impatience and tendency to fiddle with your dosages.

 

You also seem convinced you need to take drugs to control your OCD. Do you intend to stay on your combination of drugs permanently?

 

 

Hi,

 

As you can imagine not well. I still have difficulty sleeping and often will be awake during the night. I was exercising to aide this and took appropriate 2-3 rest days until I picked up a slight knock, with little recovery - I ran every 2-3 days here factoring in rest days. I am tired also during day doing group therapy for my anxiety.

 

Why Clonipromine?

 

The doctor here suggested I take Clonipromine as it was the best new thing on the market right? I did refuse as was in my patients rights here at this hospital. I was given a two week period to come off Zoloft (SSRI)and slowly taper the Klonazepam(Benzo). I explained assertively to taper one drug at a time, not the SSRI + Benzo and that the process would take months to finish. The nurses, doctor and my parents advise I start it ASAP as After the to week taper of Zoloft 75 down to 0mg, I asked him to have a 7-day grace period to see if I could come off and time to think 💭 about the new drug. As you can imagine by the end of 7 days I was exhausted even though gut feeling was to stay off it. During that last day I was basically ‘Carrying my Bottom Lip’. He did say I could take Zoloft again but “I won’t be the one to prescribe it, so you will have to ask another doctor.” I was and still am stuck in hospital - everything goes through him. Nothing is done w/o him saying yes or no. 

 

When is it taken ?

 

50mg in the morning and 100mg at night time. It is a sedative drug.

 

Am I still taking melatonin.

 

Yes. 2mg Circadin at night time (prolonged release). 

 

Some of this was caused by your doctors' ignorance, and some by your own impatience and tendency to fiddle with your dosages.

 

Some was my own impatience you are correct. Some just bad advice GPs close to me.

 

You also seem convinced you need to take drugs to control your OCD. Do you intend to stay on your combination of drugs permanently?

 

No - never convinced. Always come into the doctors room with the intention that drugs should be last resort. And even still in a worse case, I would hope they afforded me opportunity to ride it out - Not in hospital.

 

I took the Clonipromine (Anafranil) with the view to stabilise and then come off permanently. Drugs is all I know since I was roughly 18 yrs old. That’s a long time.

 

 

Sincerely,

Ryder.

 

 

[Altostrata]

Ryder clonipramine is a very old drug, and a strong serotonergic.

 

What kind of effect does it have on you? What exactly are your symptoms, do they occur at any particular time of day? What is your sleep pattern like?

 

 

[Ryder]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Ryder clonipramine is a very old drug, and a strong serotonergic.

 

What kind of effect does it have on you? What exactly are your symptoms, do they occur at any particular time of day? What is your sleep pattern like?

 

 

 

O.k.

 

For #1 It makes me pretty tired. I get up at 7 say after not sleeping 💤 night before. As soon as I sit down - boom. Game Over. ill miss Group 1 which starts at 9am and make the second group after eleven a.m. 

#2 Absolutely dry mouth but that’s nothing.

#3 Trouble going to the Loo - constipation. I can finish a newspaper faster than time spent in there. Doc warned this would happen. Never a problem for me before.

#4 Tremors - I was usually first one to speak in class/group. Now I’m too afraid. I’m looking at the ground bc my muscles shake/spasm where I’m tense. 

#5 Slowed down - If you spoke to me 1 on 1 - Sometimes I’ve trouble just getting the words out out of my that I want to say. Cannot think of the words as they come to mind. Speech Slurred. Also I’ll slouch Forward when I’m by myself,  won’t realise until nurse comes in. Thoughts are slower but so are my actions. 

 

#6 Feel the on set of panic during day.

#7 Loss of an appetite. Might have 1-2 meal per day body can’t digest it. 

#8 Intrusive thoughts - When trying to sleep and during day.

 

Ryder

[Altostrata]

That sounds like you're taking too much clomipramine.

 

You fall asleep after your morning dose? If I were you, I'd reduce the daytime dose to 40mg to start. Why does your doctor have you taking it twice a day? Clomipramine has a half-life of several days.

 

Those intrusive thoughts are your underlying thought habit. You need to learn to quiet them. Please look at Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms You might consider a therapist who will coach you in Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT).

 

Please correct the Anafranil date in your signature.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Altostrata
corrected spelling

[Ryder]

Hi Alto, 

 

I think you mean Clonipromine. Clonzapine is an AP and I’m not on that.

 

I will clarify:

 

Anafranil/Clonipromine has a short half life from what I’ve read briefly. It falls under the new ‘SRI’ or trycyclate drug category. Also don’t forget I’m also taking Klonazepam (Benzo) now 3mg at night along with melatonin 2mg, Anafranil 100mg. It’s spelt also with a letter C here as ‘Clonazepam’ and that’s how I’ve marked it in my signature. 

 

So so to clarify at night time 🌛I will take 100mg Anafranil (Clonipromine), 3mg Clonazepam(Benzo) and 2mg Circadin (Melatonin).

 

Morning ⛅️  50mg Anafranil/Clonipromine

 

They all start with C and even the nurses get it wrong so I gotta remember what the tablets look like in colour, size before taking them. 

 

So Answer: It is twice a day bc of the half life. Thanks for the link you have posted. That is more usable to what I’m taking 🥊.

[ChessieCat]

14 minutes ago, Ryder said:

Anafranil/Clonipromine

 

It's actually spelled clomipramine.  From Wiki:  "Clomipramine, sold under the brand name Anafranil among others"

 

From https://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB01242

 

Half life

Following oral administration of a single 150 mg dose of clomipramine, the average elimination half-life of clomipramine was 32 hours (range: 19-37 hours) and of desmethylclomipramine was 69 hours (range: 54-77 hours). Elimination half-life may vary substantially with different doses due to saturable kinetics (i.e. metabolism).

[Ryder]

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

 

It's actually spelled clomipramine.  From Wiki:  "Clomipramine, sold under the brand name Anafranil among others"

 

From https://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB01242

 

 

THANKS Chessie. It is spelt with an M. I thought on the box it was an N. I also used and spelt the word trycyclate. The drug is/are classed as ‘Tricyclics’ abbreviated as TCA. 

 

Updated signature. Clomipromine is the new drug marketed under Anafranil.

[ChessieCat]

Did you see the information about the half life?

[Altostrata]

Clomipramine is a very old drug, predating the SSRIs.

 

Sorry for the confusion about the drug name. This information is accurate:

20 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Clomipramine has a half-life of several days.

 

You seem to be taking too much clomipramine. Your doctor is correct, you are suffering common side effects, but he or she seems curiously unconcerned about your quality of life.

[Ryder]

2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Did you see the information about the half life?

 

Im unsure what to make of it. 150mg seems the standard? I think ones metabolism is the reason they load up on you. I will run it by him.

 

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Clomipramine is a very old drug, predating the SSRIs.

 

Sorry for the confusion about the drug name. This information is accurate:

 

You seem to be taking too much clomipramine. Your doctor is correct, you are suffering common side effects, but he or she seems curiously unconcerned about your quality of life.

 

I brought up problems regarding bathroom. He stated in order for the digestive system to work well, excercise + drinking water every day. Also states my responsibility to sort it by grabbing a few tablets from nurses if I feel indigestion. So yeah says it’s part and parcel of taking it, and has also stated that anything less than 150mg isn’t a therapeutic dose for OCD. 

[ChessieCat]

21 minutes ago, Ryder said:

also stated that anything less than 150mg isn’t a therapeutic dose for OCD

 

Therapeutic dose is term coined by the pharmaceutical companies.  The medical profession get their information about the drugs from the pharmaceutical companies.

 

We need to change the forced mindset that we have and think in terms of the lowest effective dose.