EmGiblets: hi! Duloxetine tapering.

[EmGiblets]

Hi, thank you for adding me.  My friend recommended this site.  I am on 30mg cymbalta/duloxetine, I have been on it over 5 years after developing CFS and associated anxiety and also back pain.  It was really good initially and overall it helped me a lot.  However, the last 2 years i have put on a lot of weight and it keeps going up despite really trying to cut down food and feeling like I am eating okay and should not be putting on this much weight.  Also I feel it is not as useful as it was and I want to come off it.  I have come down to 20 mg in last week and can feel symptoms esp in evening, especially head type symptoms and feeling a bit over excited, jittery and weird.  However I tried measuring the beads and it did not work for me, for one thing I ended up spilling them all over floor which is not good with kids around!  I will stay with 20mg for a few months then will half the 30mg capsules I have, for a few months, then half the 20 mg capsules, then third them, then quatter etc, I plan on taking about a year. I just thought I need support and it is great to have all the info on here.  I still have CFS and back pain but milder, but I do not know if coming down on dulox will make those worse, if it does I may have to quit, but I know much more about natural remedies now, and plan to supplement with AShwangandha and Rhodiola and some other things i know about and have tried.  I also have some other meds I can use, including cortisol, etc.  I was diagnosed with sub clinical thyoroid issues and low adrenal output but only by private GP, I tried thyroxine but did not work or suit me.  I have some gut issues too which I am trying to sort out, so have a lot going on.  Many thanks, Emily  

[joy2730]

Hi Emily

 

I am not a moderator but want to welcome this site.  My first response when reading your post was that you are doing this too quickly, this site and other books recommend no faster than 10% per month, that being 10% of the previous dose.

 

A moderator will be along to give you the links you need and then you will be able to see the recommended rate of withdrawal.

 

A major problem is that individuals do well for a while reducing large amounts and then crash, it is deceptive, the reactions are delayed, sometimes by months.

 

Joy

[EmGiblets]

Hi Joy

Thanks for this, I did try to do it more gradually but was not able to realistically measure out the beads etc, it was too faffy and it just did not work out for me, so I decided to do this on my doctors advice.  What sort of side effects should I get going down so fast?  This is my fourth attempt at reduction.  

Many thanks

Emily

[joy2730]

Hi Emily

 

The moderators on this site may be able to give you advice on how to measure your AD so that you can taper more slowly.

 

I do not want to worry you in any way, as you may do well, but you may get, and it may happen quickly 'out of the blue':

 

Nausea

Headaches

Muscle aches

Stiff neck

Dizziness

Constipation

Diarrhoea

Stomach distress

Sweating

Temperature intolerance

Anxiety

Low mood and

Insomnia.

 

Individuals seem to think they are doing well and then suddenly find they are not doing so well after all.  The problem is that ADs not just act in the brain, they act anywhere in the body there is a serotonin receptor and they are everywhere, including the stomach and the bones.  In this respect they are not very selective after all.  this is the reason they can affect sexual functioning in some individuals.

 

When a moderator replies to you they will give you valuable links, I recommend you read them and believe them.  I didn't believe how slowly I would need to go, it has taken me 3 years now to reduce from 30 mg citalopram to 18 mg, having got down lower several times, crashed and then gone back up to 20 mg citalopram.  I find reducing so slowly difficult, but if I had not gone so fast I would be in a better place now, perhaps?

[mammaP]

Hi Emily welcome to SA. Sadly doctors are not aware of withdrawal and safe tapering. You have already tried and failed at tapering, you are not alone, I tried several times to get off effexor by counting beads and failed miserably. Then, like you I thought I would do it over a year but still failed even more miserably! 

 

You are already suffering the effects of withdrawal which is not a good sign. I understand completely the problems with those terrible bouncing beads, they are a nightmare! It is best if you can get hold of a digital scale, so that you can weigh the beads instead of counting them. I will get some links for you. 

 

Tapering cymbalta

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/283-tapering-off-cymbalta-duloxetine/

 

Using a digital scale

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1596-using-a-digital-scale-to-measure-doses/

 

Some people use compounding pharmacies to make capsules with the correct doses, niot sure how that works on the NHS. 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1425-compounding-pharmacies-us-uk-and-elsewhere/

 

Why taper 10%

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

How people manage to count beads. Our members are very creative!

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1461-counting-beads-in-a-capsule-versus-weighing/

[EmGiblets]

Hi, many thanks, I really appreciate it.  The issue I have is that with CFS I feel a lot of symptoms on an almost daily basis, and never know what is withdrawal and what is CFS related, like today I am feeling nauseous and sick.  Daily I walk a tightrope of just about getting by, but I am sick of being on this drug when I have no idea if it is even still helping me in any way.  Thanks for the tips, I will have a look, you are right my GP is clueless.  

Just wondering how people have felt when they do manage to get off these drugs or reduce dosage, do you feel better, do you lose weight?

I am feeling determined this time around, has anyone got any specific natural supplements they take that can help me when I really need to chill out and feel better, I heard Theanine is good for this. 

Many thanks, Emily

[mammaP]

Lots of people feel better as the dose lowers, sometimes they don't even realise because the improvement is so gradual. I remember thinking back to the previous month and realising that I was sleeping better. Unless the taper is too fast and there is withdrawal, people usually feel much better. While tapering we have to look at non-drug ways of coping. While we are drugged, feelings are limited and things often don't bother people. My brother died and I felt nothing, because the drugs blunt emotions. When my niece died after my taper I was distraught and beside myself with grief. I worked through that grief, it is a normal reaction but it has been labelled mental illness and drugs are prescribed. Some people have never had to self-soothe and find it hard when the drugs have gone. As feelings come back emotions seem very intense, sadness is devastating and happiness is almost manic, we call them neuro emotions. and are a part of the brain readjusting. There are so many side effects that can make CFS worse, and a lot of people are diagnosed with CFS after starting the drugs and are actually suffering from side effects. 

 

We recommend everyone to read this topic in Symptoms. 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

 

What happens after zero

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7843-experiences-after-tapering-to-zero/

 

There are many success stories  here...

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/28-success-stories-recovery-from-withdrawal/

[EmGiblets]

HI, thanks for this, this has helped me feel more positive, I thought I was feeling better but this month my period pains have been intense, but I have to remember that every few months they are really severe and debilitating.  It is not necessarily the drug.  I lost all my libido on dulox and I mean ALL!  Does it come back?  I am 46 so dont know if it is premenopause etc.  Since coming down to 20 I do feel very apathetic and unmotivated though, but again I have phases of that anyway.  I will definitely try to stick to 20 for a while, 20 is better than 30 anyway.  I do have a lot or problems in my life to deal with.  My mum is not well and i have a child with autism.  I think the latter is one reason I ended up on this drug anyway as I could not cope thought I was a bad mum and then got swine flu and slipped a disc at teh same time, I hit rock bottom and needed something to help me back up off the floor..  I remember begging the doctor to give me something stronger than the Amitriptyline I was on for pain and sleep. At that time my hormonal fluctuations were intense, I fear they may come back but my GP is not interested in doing any tests, he said that if I was still having my periods regularly I was 'fine'. I tried Chasteberry but no effect.  Many thanks for your support, Emilyxxx

[mammaP]

You are suffering withdrawal symptoms from the 30% cut. Would you consider going back up a little?  Maybe not to the full 30mg but somewhere in between. It is so sad that you ended up on psychiatric drugs because you were sick. I had swine flu and it was horrendous, I also have a slipped disc and to have those together would put anyone out of action! 

 

Libido, it does come back and is actually quite amusing when all of a sudden you get a feeling and it is like whoa, where did that come from  . We have a discussion on PSSD in the symptoms section if you want to check it out.

 

Would you fill in your signature for us? We need t=your drug history, doses and when started/stopped or changed. This is so we can see at a glance when it appears at the bottom of your posts. I'm sorry I forgot to include the link for instructions. 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/12364-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

[EmGiblets]

Hi, thanks, I think symptoms are really kicking in today, I feel sick, nauesous, dizzy, my head is messed up I was in a right mood earlier was shouting at everyone almost delirious, I feel really bad!  How long will acute phase last?  I am determined, but I think I am literally going to have to not go out of house until this passes, this morning I went out and I was totally out of it, things felt unreal, it was horrible. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by ChessieCat
changed/removed obscenities

[ChessieCat]

Hi Em,

 

I have edited your Post #10.  We have a wide range of ages, beliefs and cultures who are members of this site who may be offended by your language.

[TikkiTikki]

Hi Emily,

 

I just wanted to say hi. I'm a fellow taperer. 

 

Sorry you are feeling so rotten. A reinstatement like MammaP suggested, maybe just a little bit up, might help. 

There are also lots of suggestions in Symptoms and Self-care Forum - like sipping Magnesium citrate in water, or Omega -3 or b12 that many people have found beneficial.

 

But you are relatively lucky - so many people only get to this site after going cold turkey or a very fast taper to zero and find themselves well beyond the reinstatement window and in a really bad way, and it can go on for years and years. You've made a big cut, but you will stabilise and then can taper gently from there.

 

Hugs

[EmGiblets]

Hi, thanks sorry for my language, yesterday I felt dreadful, really terrible and today I feel bad too, now my symptoms are worse in the mornings.  It is a head thing, I feel dizzy, out of it, really unwell, I did really well the first few days, I think I thought it would be easy.  Now I am wondering if I can do it or even if I should do it.  Maybe dulox is helping my CFS.  How long do head symptoms last.  I feel sick, spaced  out, not with it, almost delirious.  I am trying to busy myself with very light pleasurable activities and not pressure myself.  I am stunned at how much this drug is doing to me.  I have a month of relative stability then my partner is away for 2 weeks, which is when things can get stressful due to having a son with autism who is not at school.  Is there anything I can take for head symptoms.  

Sorry again for the language, yesterday I lost the plot and I cannot afford really to lose the plot, I went out with teh family and felt so so ill, the good thing is i am still feeling positive, definitely summer is a better time for me to attempt this as I can get really down in the winter.

Many thanks for your support, I am slowly reading all your advice and all the links and learning a lot from this site,

Emilyx

[mammaP]

You are suffering withdrawal Emily, and need to go up in dose a little.  You can taper down safely by going very slowly. You are not suffering because your nervous system needs the drug, it is because you are withdrawing. It isn't like some drugs that can be stopped and you recover after it has been eliminated from the blood. The drugs make changes in the brain and nervous system and when the drug is stopped or reduced, the brain struggles to cope and tries to balance itself . This is withdrawal and can take a long time to regain normality.  You will be surprised at how quickly the symptoms are alleviated just by increasing the dose slightly.  You could try 25 and see how that goes.  I feel for you, I have done this so many times until I found this site and learned about safe tapering!

[EmGiblets]

Hi, many thanks, I am feeling a little better today, I think I will take some extra beads when necessary but try to stick with my plan.  I will see how it goes.  I am feeling very down and intensely apathetic, it is a constant fight for me to actually motivate myself.  I have some amazing opportunities at the moment but dont feel up to them or even motivated to do them (I have a book coming out and I could not feel less excited about it), which is just crazy as this is a lifelong dream for me.  I look at other people and feel on the outside, they are living their lives while I am in limbo, doing nothing and just feel totally on another plane to most other people. I am struggling to relate to people and feel like hardly anyone cares about me or my family any more.  Feeling a bit lost, Emilyxxx

[EmGiblets]

Hi, I was doing really well but since yesterday been getting palpitations and struggling with sleep, is this WD or something else?

Thanks, Emilyx

[scallywag]

Heart palpitations and sleep issues can be withdrawal symptoms. Links to our discussion topics:

Tips to help sleep.

Irregular heartbeats, palpitations, tachychardia, brachycardia.

Heart palpitatoins and low blood pressure.

 

If you know you have a higher risk of cardiac issues because of family history or a previous event, you'd be wise to consult a physician to rule that out.