DaveB: trying to stop a roller coaster year

[powerback]

13 minutes ago, DaveB said:

I should have clarified not a sugar CT. I don’t drink coffee, two 32 oz Dr Peppers a day that I would like to cut due to caffeine and sugar. So not cut sugar completely, just get rid of my worst offenders. This week I cut down to 1 32oz and 1 20oz. 

there's a rule I learned and its 5gms of  sugar  per 100gm ,you'll see it on the label of any food product and a lot of these products we eat are 30grams or more per 100 gram .I read a book on giving up sugar and I was overwhelmed with the amount of work involved to quit but the fact you've reduced is great .

That's the thing I noticed about finding  the solution for withdrawl and our ills ,we learn so many other things about health that we didn't think we would .sugar is a serious poison.you cant even juice fresh oranges ,because its just the same ie sugar ,the amount of times my bubble has been burst with learning things lol.sugar goes straight to brain like cocaine ,extremely addictive .sorry dave I don't mean to give you anxiety .

good on ye cutting down 

[AshleeM]

Rosetta, Thank you for this! I couldn’t explain it better myself. It’s draining going through the panic/ adrenaline surge (what I call it) and then not being able to understand or articulate it. Family and friends just don’t get it. I try to explain that it’s like knowing your about to get on a plane that you know will crash only you’re not getting on that plane, you’re just living your daily life. It’s impending doom, fear, and panic all in one. Then it passes and there is relief then becomes complete sadness and the tears but I would rather have that than the panic. We will all get through this. We have to believe that. I try to remind myself in the situation that this is my central nervous system trying to heal itself and that it will pass. 

 

Im just confused bc I reinstated my Celexa at 5mg a couple of months ago and have been doing much better than being completely off but this last week has been really hard. I think being iced in and droopy weather plays a huge role 

[DaveB]

Just wanted to update, had a pretty good day yesterday. Strong anxiety in the morning and then one more really good bout at about 4-6PM, but other than that anxiety pretty much shut off. Woke up today with very minimal cortisol, least I can remember in quite some time. Hoping this means my most recent wave is passing, sorry for all the negativity and stupid questions. Though my waves can feel as bad as ever, they seem much more short lived than they once did. Also I have replaced my Dr. Pepper with a sugar free green tea drink today. It does have some caffeine (45mgs per drink) but it is less than Dr Pepper and doesn't have the sugar. Plus I have heard green tea's caffeine is kind of counterbalanced by the theanine it contains. Would love to hear others knowledge on this. 

[JamesF]

22 minutes ago, DaveB said:

 

Hey Jay, sorry to sidetrack your thread wildchild, but for me trying to stabilize on Paxil instead of the Zoloft I was on, in your opinion will it make it impossible to stabilize, or just that stabilization will take longer? Didn't you eventually stabilize on Zoloft from your withdrawals of Celexa?

 

I was referring to different classes of drugs. Close substitutes seem to be okay. 

 

I'd guess that stabilisation might take slightly longer than if it was the same drug, but that they're close enough that you'll do so. In your case it sounds like things are improving.

 

Maybe you can prove this to yourself  by keeping a record. Have considered keeping a daily log of symptoms / energy and rating/10 every day?

 

I have a basic one with energy and the amount I sleep that I've been keeping for a few months now. For instance sleep is gradually improving with time. It spikes up and down but the monthly average is improving. 

 

If you can see the overall pattern is improving , that would indicate you're stabilising, and might reassure you to have patience with the process? Just an idea

 

Jay

[DaveB]

2 minutes ago, JamesF said:

 

I was referring to different classes of drugs. Close substitutes seem to be okay. 

 

I'd guess that stabilisation might take slightly longer than if it was the same drug, but that they're close enough that you'll do so. In your case it sounds like things are improving.

 

Maybe you can prove this to yourself  by keeping a record. Have considered keeping a daily log of symptoms / energy and rating/10 every day?

 

I have a basic one with energy and the amount I sleep that I've been keeping for a few months now. For instance sleep is gradually improving with time. It spikes up and down but the monthly average is improving. 

 

If you can see the overall pattern is improving , that would indicate you're stabilising, and might reassure you to have patience with the process? Just an idea

 

Jay

 

Yes I have done a morning/afternoon/night anxiety ratings, and it is slowly getting better (lower numbers). I stopped doing this in February as a deal with my wife to obsess about "how I am feeling" less, but will probably resume it in March as it is helpful to look back. 

[JamesF]

8 minutes ago, DaveB said:

 

Yes I have done a morning/afternoon/night anxiety ratings, and it is slowly getting better (lower numbers). I stopped doing this in February as a deal with my wife to obsess about "how I am feeling" less, but will probably resume it in March as it is helpful to look back. 

 

Yeah I understand that. I keep it simple with just energy and sleep partly for that reason. 

 

I can see how a log would be bad if there's no evidence of improvement. But when it's heading in the right direction I think it definitely becomes a reassurance. 

 

When I see little spikes of bad sleep or energy now, I can see that its just a small blip in the context of improvement. (It literally looks like a spike, I made a little chart for my spreadsheet numbers)

 

I'm trying to view the spikes like pit stops on a long car journey. You might not be moving for a little while, but you're still on your way.

 

I think as with anything really gradual, there's a risk that you don't appreciate the improvement day to day. Or don't remember it during the bad moments. So personally at least, I find tracking it a great solace that keeps me positive.

 

[Rosetta]

No need to be sorry, Dave.  We are all here for support.  I'm relatively anxiety free today, too!

 

That person who got better -- I hope it lasts for him.  I have my doubts, but if he is lucky and stumbled upon the right thing for him at just the right time I really hope it lasts.  I don't think that if I were you, I would take the risk at this point because of where you are in the journey.  You are functioning.

 

But I can remember being desperate enough to try anything a doctor promised was a solution.  I was given Trazodone when I was desperate.  The Trazodone gave me relief every night by knocking me out, but the backlash in the day was horrid.  (I thought it was a sleeping pill; at no point was there any informed consent.  It's an AD! And I didn't actually sleep.  I was simply unconscious.  There very little restorative sleep.) There's an explanation here somewhere about how the body processes Trazodone and causes through the roof anxiety in the day.  The doctor should have known about the nearly guaranteed anxiety side effect, right?  I was coming to him because of anxiety!! I'm very worried that our friend is going to have a similar experience down the line.

 

I used to hate it when my husband would compare my condition to that of heroin addicts!  It made me feel terrible about myself.  But one thing he said was true enough: you have to get to the point that you are sick of being sick and you will endure anything to get past that feeling.  (Of course, that's how we decided that I should CT Zoloft because everyone thinks CT is the only way to get away from a drug -- big, big, big mistake!!!) I'm still sick to death of being sick and even taking an ibuprophen gelcap worries me.  I have come far enough that I don't think I would risk taking anything meant to affect my CNS. I think you have come that far, too.  Again, you are functioning.  It's not enough, I know, but eventually you will be where you can see that the risk is too great and you won't even think about taking the risk of jeopardizing the progress you have made.  I can see it from here.  Try to take some solace from that if you can.

 

@AshleeM I'm glad you found that helpful!

 

Wishing you some happy feelings today,

Rosetta

 

 

 

[DaveB]

What does everyone think about replacing Dr Pepper with this https://greenteahp.com/. It has 45mgs of caffeine so I shouldn't have withdrawals and headaches, but I get off the biggest offender of sugar for me. I would welcome any thoughts and opinions.

[manymoretodays]

Hi DaveB,

Well.........I am a great fan of teas myself.  So.........I think that's a good idea.  I looked at the link briefly.  Are you doing iced tea or hot tea?  Personally I really enjoy brewing on up the hot tea, yet I do admit to nuking(microwaving) it often as well.  In brewing it, however, it becomes a nice pause period of mindfulness and relaxation.  Put the pot on.......wait for the whistling.......pour the water into the teapot with the tea itself and wait again while it steeps.  And then enjoy.  Buy yourself a favorite cup or mug even to drink it out of.  Have a tea party with your kids.    If you want to sweeten it you might consider honey.  I haven't had any difficulty with honey at all.  I still indulge from time to time in some sweets myself.  Once I do though......then I crave again.......briefly.

 

I think a lot has to do with diet in general as well.  When I eat clean.......lot's of veggies and protein and some complex carbs........I'm not really interested in cakes or cookies or candy.  Oh......on occasion I do Pepsi, usually diet with lemon and that awful nutrasweet(wood alcohol or something) stuff.

 

So.....are you off Klonopin now completely?  I just glanced and saw the snafu in December where you took Klonopin instead of Paxil.  Are you gaining weight on the Zyprexa?  As it does have a fairly awful metabolic effect that I don't think exercise or diet can even touch.  I know that with me........ugh, it was zombifying.  And did not agree with my liver metabolism at all.  I wish they would remove Zyprexa from the market altogether actually.

 

Any lifestyle changes that have helped with the anxiety/panic?  I guess I mean do you do anything differently than what you once did when you sought out medication?  Meditation groups, yoga, spirtual calming?  Stuff like that.  Or perhaps even a stroll outside of the usual box of thinking even........all those self imposed and sometimes societal expectations.

 

Good to see that you are having some better moments and mornings.  A good time as well to start to plan ahead as far as tapering goes.  Educate yourself and loved ones as best you can.  Firm up on your reasons why.    Hopefully that's something you still are considering in the future?

 

Love, peace, healing/inrecovery, and growth,

mmt

Edited February 25, 2018 by manymoretodays

[ChessieCat]

On 25/02/2018 at 4:50 AM, JamesF said:

I can see how a log would be bad if there's no evidence of improvement.

 

Keeping a log can help you see small improvements which you can't feel.  It can also help you see if their is a pattern to when you feel worse.

[DaveB]

23 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi DaveB,

Well.........I am a great fan of teas myself.  So.........I think that's a good idea.  I looked at the link briefly.  Are you doing iced tea or hot tea?  Personally I really enjoy brewing on up the hot tea, yet I do admit to nuking(microwaving) it often as well.  In brewing it, however, it becomes a nice pause period of mindfulness and relaxation.  Put the pot on.......wait for the whistling.......pour the water into the teapot with the tea itself and wait again while it steeps.  And then enjoy.  Buy yourself a favorite cup or mug even to drink it out of.  Have a tea party with your kids.    If you want to sweeten it you might consider honey.  I haven't had any difficulty with honey at all.  I still indulge from time to time in some sweets myself.  Once I do though......then I crave again.......briefly.

 

I think a lot has to do with diet in general as well.  When I eat clean.......lot's of veggies and protein and some complex carbs........I'm not really interested in cakes or cookies or candy.  Oh......on occasion I do Pepsi, usually diet with lemon and that awful nutrasweet(wood alcohol or something) stuff.

 

So.....are you off Klonopin now completely?  I just glanced and saw the snafu in December where you took Klonopin instead of Paxil.  Are you gaining weight on the Zyprexa?  As it does have a fairly awful metabolic effect that I don't think exercise or diet can even touch.  I know that with me........ugh, it was zombifying.  And did not agree with my liver metabolism at all.  I wish they would remove Zyprexa from the market altogether actually.

 

Any lifestyle changes that have helped with the anxiety/panic?  I guess I mean do you do anything differently than what you once did when you sought out medication?  Meditation groups, yoga, spirtual calming?  Stuff like that.  Or perhaps even a stroll outside of the usual box of thinking even........all those self imposed and sometimes societal expectations.

 

Good to see that you are having some better moments and mornings.  A good time as well to start to plan ahead as far as tapering goes.  Educate yourself and loved ones as best you can.  Firm up on your reasons why.    Hopefully that's something you still are considering in the future?

 

Love, peace, healing/inrecovery, and growth,

mmt

 

Yes I have not taken a klonopin since my mix-up at the end of December, and for 7 months prior to that mix-up. I have gained some weight on Zyprexa, about 10lbs. I hate the Zyprexa and would like to taper it ASAP, but I don't feel I am stable enough. Yes I am for sure planning to taper in the future, still just trying to get stable for now though. Hopefully I will get stable soon? Did you ever suffer through withdrawals when you got off meds? This waiting to stabilize is just so very hard. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Dave,

 

Oh my gosh......yes, on did I ever suffer withdrawals when I got off medications?  I didn't know that was the case at that time though.....that it was W/D.  I was on W/D after W/D chased by many medications, for about 2 decades!  A different picture.  And I'm certain you will do better......so much better.......just based on your time frame of medication usage as well as your age.  I just want you to consider possibly some lifestyle/thinking changes.......just consider is all.  Changes that might promote your healing/recovery........I mean even if they are just a new way of looking at it all.......this wonderful life.  And I'm serious.    Life is wonderful.  Sacred even for me......

And I'm all for you waiting to stabilize.  Sorry if my comments seemed harsh somehow.....that wasn't my intention.   And I'm happy to hear that on the Klonopin/clonazepam.  Good, good, and another good!

I gained at least a pound a day while on the Zyprexa/olanzepine and for at least a month that continued.  I mean you can do the math.  I'm also a slow metabolizer, and so.......it affected my liver enzymes.   I was on 5mg. and then briefly on the 10mg.  before I got off of it........and not in the best manner.......the good old doctor recommend, which I still adhered to at that time. 

I'd ask for some labwork when you next see your prescriber, just to be on the safe side.  Liver enzymes.  And possibly a cytochrome P 450 panel, which helps to see how you are genetically situated to tolerate different psychotropic medications.  It may still be expensive to run that test in the U.S.  I'm not sure.   So don't panic if you are not able to get it done at this time.  Presently, I have mixed feelings on this testing.   You're on a fairly low dose and my best guess is that it is being prescribed for sleep.  And you may well not have the genetic metabolic set up that I do.   If at all possible I would advise you to not go up at all in your Zyprexa dosage.  And then when stabilized......start cautiously and slowly with the Paxil/paroxetine taper.

 

I hope that helps more than hinders Dave.

 

Love, peace, healing/inrecovery, and growth,

manymoretodays

 

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by manymoretodays
puncuation, content

[DaveB]

56 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi Dave,

 

Oh my gosh......yes, on did I ever suffer withdrawals when I got off medications?  I didn't know that was the case at that time though.....that it was W/D.  I was on W/D after W/D chased by many medications, for about 2 decades!  A different picture.  And I'm certain you will do better......so much better.......just based on your time frame of medication usage as well as your age.  I just want you to consider possibly some lifestyle/thinking changes.......just consider is all.  Changes that might promote your healing/recovery........I mean even if they are just a new way of looking at it all.......this wonderful life.  And I'm serious.    Life is wonderful.  Sacred even for me......

And I'm all for you waiting to stabilize.  Sorry if my comments seemed harsh somehow.....that wasn't my intention.   And I'm happy to hear that on the Klonopin/clonazepam.  Good, good, and another good!

I gained at least a pound a day while on the Zyprexa/olanzepine and for at least a month that continued.  I mean you can do the math.  I'm also a slow metabolizer, and so.......it affected my liver enzymes.   I was on 5mg. and then briefly on the 10mg.  before I got off of it........and not in the best manner.......the good old doctor recommend, which I still adhered to at that time. 

I'd ask for some labwork when you next see your prescriber, just to be on the safe side.  Liver enzymes.  And possibly a cytochrome P 450 panel, which helps to see how you are genetically situated to tolerate different psychotropic medications.  It may still be expensive to run that test in the U.S.  I'm not sure.   So don't panic if you are not able to get it done at this time.  Presently, I have mixed feelings on this testing.   You're on a fairly low dose and my best guess is that it is being prescribed for sleep.  And you may well not have the genetic metabolic set up that I do.   If at all possible I would advise you to not go up at all in your Zyprexa dosage.  And then when stabilized......start cautiously and slowly with the Paxil/paroxetine taper.

 

I hope that helps more than hinders Dave.

 

Love, peace, healing/inrecovery, and growth,

manymoretodays

 

 

 

I agree, I have changed much about my lifestyle. I eat more healthy, exercise regularly, make sure I get adequate water intake, I could add some other things like meditation and such, thanks for the advice. What symptoms did you struggle with? Mine is mainly anxiety, how are you doing now that you are off of everything?

[Rosetta]

You are doing so well!  Great job with the healthy food.  I'm still working on that one.  It's so good that you can exercise.  I'm afraid to do more than walk.  The water intake is huge!!!  I feel better in just 15 minutes if I realize I'm low on hydration.  

Peace, Rosetta

[DaveB]

1 hour ago, Rosetta said:

You are doing so well!  Great job with the healthy food.  I'm still working on that one.  It's so good that you can exercise.  I'm afraid to do more than walk.  The water intake is huge!!!  I feel better in just 15 minutes if I realize I'm low on hydration.  

Peace, Rosetta

 

I am trying, today is another grind it out kind of day through anxiety. Will this anxiety ever stop? Waiting to stabilize has been so hard, every-time I think I make improvements, it all comes crashing back down. I thought now almost 2 months since my medication mix-up I would be seeing some more definitive signs of stability. 

[Rosetta]

I'm sorry, Dave.  I'm having a rough day, too.  I think stabilizing is not "lack of symptoms," but "bearable symptoms."  You will get there. Hold on, buddy!

[DaveB]

19 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

I'm sorry, Dave.  I'm having a rough day, too.  I think stabilizing is not "lack of symptoms," but "bearable symptoms."  You will get there. Hold on, buddy!

 

Yes, I agree. I had a period about a week ago where my symptoms had been "bearable" for almost a week straight...that has changed again in the last week and even some of my symptoms I thought were long gone have popped back up. 

[DaveB]

Anxiety has all but "shut off" this afternoon. Seriously, when it goes away I wonder what the big deal ever was and it feels like it can't possibly come back again as bad as it was...and then it does...over...and over...and over again. I enjoy the windows when it shuts off, but I kind of always know it is just going to hit again so it is hard to really enjoy them. This is just the weirdest experience ever, and you would never believe it exists...unless you are fortunate enough to get to live through it. 

[RealMe]

16 minutes ago, DaveB said:

Anxiety has all but "shut off" this afternoon. Seriously, when it goes away I wonder what the big deal ever was and it feels like it can't possibly come back again as bad as it was...and then it does...over...and over...and over again. I enjoy the windows when it shuts off, but I kind of always know it is just going to hit again so it is hard to really enjoy them. This is just the weirdest experience ever, and you would never believe it exists...unless you are fortunate enough to get to live through it. 

A good thing about windows is that when you go through a wave, you can remember them and know they will be back--longer and stronger!  You are doing a good job, Dave!  Keep going.

[DaveB]

Any idea how long "rapid cycling" happens during a long hold? I wake up to strong anxiety, then it almost completely shuts off for a couple of hours until about noon. Then picks up again until like 2-3, then almost completely shuts off again for a few hours, comes back early evening, then shuts off for the night around 8-9PM. Is it common to have windows and waves so quickly? How long does this last? Should I take it as a good or bad sign of getting stable?

[Rosetta]

Good question.  I'm wondering the same thing myself.  It's a lot different from before.  So, that should be good.  Any change means your brain is putting itself right?  It's distressing though isn't it?  And very tiring.

[Cheeky]

Hey DaveB,

I’ve been following your thread and have a lot of similarities to you, the only difference is I’ve been on these drugs longer then you and I reinstated back to my original antidepressant after 4 months of trying every antidepressant under the sun with the added “Seraquel” that I now have to taper off as well. 

Everything you write  I could’ve written myself. 

Im in the process of waiting to stabilise as well and have been having the waves and windows just like you, my day is like s rollar coaster , when I’m in a window I feel

amazing and think its all finished then the aniexty keeps in then the thoughts

and BAM back in a wave. 

This process scares me to think I will have to go through this for  years and years. 

I have two boys to look after and run a business, so I often wonder should I even continue this , when I don’t know the outcome. 

I just really pray that I the future there will be help for us. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Dave, 

Yes I did have withdrawal.  Or suffer from it.......in answer to your question above.    And did have to wait to stabilize oftentimes on new medications.  I still do have some withdrawal symptoms, most definitely.  Much less intensity.  A whole grocery cart of coping skills and tools.   On occasion I have to step back and take it easy.  Usually just a half day.  Sometimes a whole day.  Prioritize.   Nothing like the frantic crashing I used to experience though.

I hope that helps.

Best,

mmt

[DaveB]

Twice monthly update:

 

Overall I went through a pretty rough wave the last week, I seem to be pulling out of it. Not sure if the switch to the green tea hp drink had anything to do with it, but it coincided with the wave, so I have discontinued drinking it and back to Dr. Pepper (I know, I know NOT ideal). 

 

Symptoms:

 

Anxiety - Morning anxiety got REALLY strong again during the wave, seems to be subsiding back to a strong annoyance, not the punch to the gut of the past. I seem to be rapid cycling from feeling totally fine for a few hours, to crushing anxiety for a few hours. This is better now than it has been over the past week.

 

Inability to concentrate or enjoy things - This took a little dip during the wave, but not much. Actually quite enjoyed watching the Olympics. 

 

IBS - Came back the last week in the wave, seems to be subsiding again. 

 

Oily Skin - Still there, but don't care. May not even be withdrawal related. 

 

Face Flushing and feeling "hot" - One symptom that didn't really come back in this wave.

 

Pins and Needles - Felt this quite a bit in this wave, but is receding again. Like an adrenaline rush in arms and legs that causes tingling. 

 

Negative Thoughts - Came back with a vengeance in recent wave, truly I felt like I had made no progress and would never be well again.

 

Sensitivity to Sound - Came back during the wave, now has completely resolved itself again. 

 

Sensitivity to Smell - Gone

 

Shaking (especially in the hands) - Came back in the morning during my wave, pretty much gone again.

 

Burning Eyes - Gone, and was actually a real problem at one point.

 

OCD/Intrusive Thoughts - Mostly gone.

[DaveB]

10 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi Dave, 

Yes I did have withdrawal.  Or suffer from it.......in answer to your question above.    And did have to wait to stabilize oftentimes on new medications.  I still do have some withdrawal symptoms, most definitely.  Much less intensity.  A whole grocery cart of coping skills and tools.   On occasion I have to step back and take it easy.  Usually just a half day.  Sometimes a whole day.  Prioritize.   Nothing like the frantic crashing I used to experience though.

I hope that helps.

Best,

mmt

 

It does help very much, thank you!

 

18 hours ago, Cheeky said:

Hey DaveB,

I’ve been following your thread and have a lot of similarities to you, the only difference is I’ve been on these drugs longer then you and I reinstated back to my original antidepressant after 4 months of trying every antidepressant under the sun with the added “Seraquel” that I now have to taper off as well. 

Everything you write  I could’ve written myself. 

Im in the process of waiting to stabilise as well and have been having the waves and windows just like you, my day is like s rollar coaster , when I’m in a window I feel

amazing and think its all finished then the aniexty keeps in then the thoughts

and BAM back in a wave. 

This process scares me to think I will have to go through this for  years and years. 

I have two boys to look after and run a business, so I often wonder should I even continue this , when I don’t know the outcome. 

I just really pray that I the future there will be help for us. 

 

Isn't it SO frustrating? A few hours a day I truly get an almost complete break from the anxiety, which makes it all the ore frustrating when it comes back. I don't know about you, but WHEN I finally stabilize, I won't be making any changes for a good LONG while. Like maybe 6 months, then I would like to tackle the Zyprexa as I simply HATE being on it.  Paxil, when I stabilize on it, is a fight for another day, I would like to get down to at least 20mgs, and maybe come off one day, but after what coming off Zoloft has done to my life, I don't really know or care if I get completely off Paxil.

 

19 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Good question.  I'm wondering the same thing myself.  It's a lot different from before.  So, that should be good.  Any change means your brain is putting itself right?  It's distressing though isn't it?  And very tiring.

 

Rosetta, you are awesome! Still so positive and supportive even when you are struggling. I look up to you!

[Rosetta]

Wow.  You are improving so much!  The negative thinking and intrusive thoughts are so miserable.  I'm glad you are getting a break.  This reinstatement is going to work out for you beautifully.  Great idea to just hold and get back to a normal life!

 

That's sweet that you look up to me.  You probably have a little bit of an idea, but I hope not too much of hard it is to feel that I'm not a failure.  I know, intellectually, that I'm ill, and I'm really doing all I can to keep going, but the neurotransmitters keep telling me that I'm a complete failure.  Someday all the effort is going to pay off and my brain will find balance again.  I never felt this bad about myself prior to Celexa.  It's neuro emotions I suppose.  I keep beating myself up for not pulling myself up and just doing whatever would have resolved this anxiety in the past.  However, when I do pull myself up there seems to be no correlation between my actions and my feeling of anxiety.  In fact, it seems that doing too much is the problem.  It's necessary to take a long view of progress -- very slow imperceptible improvements.  The falls back are crushing.  We humans aren't designed to see our progress wiped away and not be affected negatively.  WD really is a form of mental torture.

[Hazel]

59 minutes ago, DaveB said:

 

 

 

Isn't it SO frustrating? A few hours a day I truly get an almost complete break from the anxiety, which makes it all the ore frustrating when it comes back. I don't know about you, but WHEN I finally stabilize, I won't be making any changes for a good LONG while. Like maybe 6 months, then I would like to tackle the Zyprexa as I simply HATE being on it.  Paxil, when I stabilize on it, is a fight for another day, I would like to get down to at least 20mgs, and maybe come off one day, but after what coming off Zoloft has done to my life, I don't really know or care if I get completely off Paxil.

I hear you Dave.  WHEN I stabilize on the Paxil I want to hold for a good long while as well.  It used to be my goal to get off the meds, now I just desperately need a break from these withdrawal symptoms and just want to get stable.  I am okay with being on a small dose indefinitely, though I still have hope I will be med free one day.  It’s crazy what this medication does to us. I hope your day is going well so far.

Hazel

[Cheeky]

4 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

It does help very much, thank you!

 

 

Isn't it SO frustrating? A few hours a day I truly get an almost complete break from the anxiety, which makes it all the ore frustrating when it comes back. I don't know about you, but WHEN I finally stabilize, I won't be making any changes for a good LONG while. Like maybe 6 months, then I would like to tackle the Zyprexa as I simply HATE being on it.  Paxil, when I stabilize on it, is a fight for another day, I would like to get down to at least 20mgs, and maybe come off one day, but after what coming off Zoloft has done to my life, I don't really know or care if I get completely off Paxil.

 

 

Rosetta, you are awesome! Still so positive and supportive even when you are struggling. I look up to you!

Dave I'm with you on that, I want to give myself a break and then start the Seraquel tapper. My aim is to get to 20mg Paxil and  zero  Seraquel .

I'm also having windows and waves during the day and when I'm normal I feel like I can do anything but when a wave hilts I feel so vulnerable and helpless. I just want to stabilize soon.

Your not alone in this, message me anytime

[DaveB]

On 3/1/2018 at 3:39 PM, Cheeky said:

Dave I'm with you on that, I want to give myself a break and then start the Seraquel tapper. My aim is to get to 20mg Paxil and  zero  Seraquel .

I'm also having windows and waves during the day and when I'm normal I feel like I can do anything but when a wave hilts I feel so vulnerable and helpless. I just want to stabilize soon.

Your not alone in this, message me anytime

 

I believe we are in the same boat. I feel SO GOOD at times, but still SO BAD at others, all in the same day. Hoping the fact that the good times feel pretty much completely back to normal is a good sign, but then again the bad times recently have brought back some symptoms I thought were long gone so maybe I shouldn't be encouraged. The last week I have actually felt more up and down then probably ever, shouldn't it be the opposite at now 2 months of holding? 

[Hazel]

Hi Dave,

I have also been feeling more up and down than ever this past week or so as well.  It’s been over a year now that I was switched to Paroxetine, and I thought I would have stabilized by now.  I did a lot of dumb things over the past year like try to switch to Prozac and taking lorazepam as needed, which I know set me back.  I wish I knew how long this would take, but there’s no way of knowing.  Just know you are not alone and have support from many who understand what you are going through.

Hazel

[Rosetta]

2 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

I believe we are in the same boat. I feel SO GOOD at times, but still SO BAD at others, all in the same day. Hoping the fact that the good times feel pretty much completely back to normal is a good sign, but then again the bad times recently have brought back some symptoms I thought were long gone so maybe I shouldn't be encouraged. The last week I have actually felt more up and down then probably ever, shouldn't it be the opposite at now 2 months of holding? 

 

@Cheeky

 

Dave and Cheeky,

 

Hang in there.  I'm sorry you are struggling so.  I'm experiencing the same thing, but I'm not trying the stabilize from reinstatement.  I'm beginning to wonder if the longer days in Spring are messing with us.  I've been suffering WD for literally years since my switch to Zoloft in 2011, and my husband noticed many years ago that Spring is very difficult for me.  I thought it was hormonal, but now I'm thinking its WD being exacerbated by the lengthening days.  If so, it has settled out every year.  Circadian rhythm is a big factor in mental health so it makes sense.  I haven't looked into this idea, but it's quite probable.

 

I'm back to using my eye mask.  It's helping with the cortisol mornings at least.

 

Peace, Rosetta

[Rosetta]

I did look into the idea, and it's probably dead on.  Glasses that might help in this post.

[DaveB]

19 hours ago, Rosetta said:

 

@Cheeky

 

Dave and Cheeky,

 

Hang in there.  I'm sorry you are struggling so.  I'm experiencing the same thing, but I'm not trying the stabilize from reinstatement.  I'm beginning to wonder if the longer days in Spring are messing with us.  I've been suffering WD for literally years since my switch to Zoloft in 2011, and my husband noticed many years ago that Spring is very difficult for me.  I thought it was hormonal, but now I'm thinking its WD being exacerbated by the lengthening days.  If so, it has settled out every year.  Circadian rhythm is a big factor in mental health so it makes sense.  I haven't looked into this idea, but it's quite probable.

 

I'm back to using my eye mask.  It's helping with the cortisol mornings at least.

 

Peace, Rosetta

 

Maybe I should look into the eye mask. That is weird you have done worse in the spring, maybe there is something to it. I am hanging in, and honestly have some really good spells for a few hours every day, they just are followed by bad ones and I do still wake with some pretty strong anxiety. Anyone have a theory on why I am "rapid cycling" so much this far into reinstatement? Is there something I could do or change to keep this from happening?

[manymoretodays]

31 minutes ago, DaveB said:

Anyone have a theory on why I am "rapid cycling" so much this far into reinstatement? Is there something I could do or change to keep this from happening?

 

Hi DaveB,

Rapid cycling?  Is this your prescriber's label?  Oftentimes, many of us do experience a cyclical nature to our moods and feelings.  I know I do around the season changes.......not every year and sometimes it can be fall, othertimes it can be springtime.........as far as shifting just a bit into low feelings or increased fears.  Thankfully I can manage these shifts much better without the medication on board.  I thought I would just repost this link for you as well:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1160-how-psychiatric-drugs-remodel-your-brain/

 

It took me quite awhile.......... to fully grasp and accept my new understanding of myself, as well as the effect of medications....... that were not disclosed to me in a doctors office or even in the pharmacological literature.  Hope this helps.  Knowledge is power ........or it has been for me.

 

I'll just be a thankful survivor today but sending love and peace and healing and growth as well.

mmt

Edited March 6, 2018 by manymoretodays

[DaveB]

3 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

 

Hi DaveB,

Rapid cycling?  Is this your prescriber's label?  Oftentimes, many of us do experience a cyclical nature to our moods and feelings.  I know I do around the season changes.......not every year and sometimes it can be fall, othertimes it can be springtime.........as far as shifting just a bit into low feelings or increased fears.  Thankfully I can manage these shifts much better without the medication on board.  I thought I would just repost this link for you as well:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1160-how-psychiatric-drugs-remodel-your-brain/

 

 

No, it is a term I heard on someone's thread here, not sure I remember who. Describes experiencing windows and waves in a cycle of multiple times a day. For a few hours I will be totally fine, back to normal, then a wave of anxiety hits where it feels as bad as ever, followed by another window. This happens multiple times a day, good news is my windows seem to be almost completely anxiety free and I feel pretty much 100% normal, whereas they used to be low levels of anxiety where I fell about 70% normal. Maybe progress? However, the waves feel just as bad as ever and I seem to be going up and down even more so that seems to be the opposite of stabilizing. 

[Rosetta]

31 minutes ago, DaveB said:

 

Maybe I should look into the eye mask. That is weird you have done worse in the spring, maybe there is something to it. I am hanging in, and honestly have some really good spells for a few hours every day, they just are followed by bad ones and I do still wake with some pretty strong anxiety. Anyone have a theory on why I am "rapid cycling" so much this far into reinstatement? Is there something I could do or change to keep this from happening?

 

@manymoretodays Dave probably got that term from me.  I used "rapid cycling" without realizing it's a term used to describe bi-polar cycling.  I meant it literally -- hours of anxiety followed by relative calm followed by the anxiety coming back relentlessly.  That or one day cortisol awakening and none the next.  It's basically very short windows that are perceptible at the time.  

 

I can't put my finger on why this is more distressing than having long waves that last for days.  Maybe it's simply that I was hoping my longer windows were permanent and the waves were going to become shorter and shorter.  Instead, I'm a ping pong ball suffering everyday almost.  I have no life.

 

Dave, you are going to stabilize.  I can feel it.  This ping pong thing must mean you are getting there.  (For me, I'm not so sure.  It's tracking a different issue that you don't have to worry about.). Try to keep the stress down, rest when you can, and don't let anyone's opinion of your behavior stop you from doing what you need to heal.  Shut your door and listen to meditations.  Leave your office for walks.  Eat when and what you need to.  You are the boss -- take advantage of that and get well.  I'll be thinking of you. -- Rosetta