DaveB: trying to stop a roller coaster year

[DaveB]

I continue to be really up and down, not sure if I will ever stabilize. Is it time to try to switch back to Zoloft? @brassmonkey any idea why I am still so up and down after all this time? Does it ever get better?

[DaveB]

Anyone with any thoughts or advice?

[Martina23]

And how long does it take that you are still up and down? Anything from four to nine - ten months is ok. Everybody is other. It takes really longer.

[manymoretodays]

On 7/28/2018 at 7:29 PM, DaveB said:

Is it time to try to switch back to Zoloft?

 

If I were you Dave, I wouldn't do another switch.   I don't think that would add to stability at all.......rather the opposite........as well as keeping you on the medication merry go round ad nausea-tum.  I would think switching now would just add further instability.

Stress reduction tools that you are using now?  Symptoms and self care

Any improvement with spacing out your magnesium?  Or mixing it in a liter water bottle and then sipping it throughout the day.  I use the citrate form too, I usually empty 1/2 capsule of 500 mg into a liter of water without any digestive changes of note.  Just don't drink it all at once.

Is your long term goal to taper off your medications?

 

And congratulations on the new job opportunity.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

Edited August 1, 2018 by manymoretodays
link, more on magnesium

[DaveB]

14 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

 

If I were you Dave, I wouldn't do another switch.   I don't think that would add to stability at all.......rather the opposite........as well as keeping you on the medication merry go round ad nausea-tum.  I would think switching now would just add further instability.

Stress reduction tools that you are using now?  Symptoms and self care

Any improvement with spacing out your magnesium?  Or mixing it in a liter water bottle and then sipping it throughout the day.  I use the citrate form too, I usually empty 1/2 capsule of 500 mg into a liter of water without any digestive changes of note.  Just don't drink it all at once.

Is your long term goal to taper off your medications?

 

And congratulations on the new job opportunity.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

I have switched to magnesium glycinate to hopefully be easier on the stomach. Just started that, 400mgs. Hoping that I will be able to take that twice a day for a total of 800mgs and maybe that will help. 

 

Absolutely the long term goal is to be med free, just have been holding for about 7 months now and still feel far from stable. Morning is tough, but the anxiety will dissipate by the end of the day and I feel normal at night. Honestly I REALLY wish I could start my taper, but I do t dare while still so unstable, but maybe I should? Let me know your thoughts, thanks for all you do!

[Gridley]

Holding is doing something--it's letting your brain stabilize.  I would continue holding.

[Rosetta]

Hi, Dave,

I've been wondering how you were.  Seven months is a long time, I know.  It seems that it can take that long or longer, but every day you are one day closer.  It could start to happen at any time.  Of course, I'm still up and down, but the ups are higher and the downs not quite as low.  I'm sure that's discouraging to you.  I have made it through this far, and I want you to know you will get to stability.  I am frequently hoping that some new, magic cure will be discovered that is safe and "effective."  I don't want to wait any longer, but it's all I can do.  I'm afraid to risk all this progress.

Peace, R

[David182]

20 hours ago, DaveB said:

I have switched to magnesium glycinate to hopefully be easier on the stomach. Just started that, 400mgs. Hoping that I will be able to take that twice a day for a total of 800mgs and maybe that will help. 

 

Absolutely the long term goal is to be med free, just have been holding for about 7 months now and still feel far from stable. Morning is tough, but the anxiety will dissipate by the end of the day and I feel normal at night. Honestly I REALLY wish I could start my taper, but I do t dare while still so unstable, but maybe I should? Let me know your thoughts, thanks for all you do!

 

 

I hear you, Dave.

 

When I think of how long it’s going to take to taper off this stuff, it’s really frustrating and I just want to start. I haven’t stabilized either. I’m getting closer but not there.

 

Whenever I’m tempted to start tapering before stability, I just think to some of the horrible situations some people are in. I mean, I’ve been there to a degree also but I don’t want to make things worse than they are or have been.

 

Patience seems the best route and I wish I had something better but I can offer the fact that I feel your frustration. (Internal thoughts: Maybe I’ll feel better starting a taper, maybe it’s been long enough...or maybe it’ll be worse...)

 

I think Gridley nailed it when saying “holding is doing something”

 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Dave-- Have you been keeping a daily journal of your symptom patter? It would be good for us to see it if you have.  Stability is more about patterns than about not having symptoms so a second set of eyes could be a good thing.

 

Be careful about starting the magnesium.  Too much of a good thing can cause real trouble.  Start out small for a few weeks and see what happens, then if needed, build up the dose a little at a time.

 

Brassmonkey

[DaveB]

On 8/2/2018 at 1:06 PM, brassmonkey said:

Hi Dave-- Have you been keeping a daily journal of your symptom patter? It would be good for us to see it if you have.  Stability is more about patterns than about not having symptoms so a second set of eyes could be a good thing.

 

Be careful about starting the magnesium.  Too much of a good thing can cause real trouble.  Start out small for a few weeks and see what happens, then if needed, build up the dose a little at a time.

 

Brassmonkey

 

8am - woke to strong anxiety

9-10AM - Exercise

10-Noon - feeling ok, not great but manageable anxiety.

noon - 4 pm - pretty rough, strong anxiety

4pm - 11pm - anxiety lessening, but still coming in waves.

11pm - take paroxatine and Zyprexa, then bed. Feeling pretty good by this time.

 

yesterday was a pretty typical day of how I have been, for most of the last two years.

 

shouldnt I be getting better after all this time of holding?

[David182]

Hi @DaveB

 

How’s everything going? New career? Magnesium? Wave/window?

 

Been thinking of ya. Hoping your healing/getting some relief.

 

i remember reading of a person’a story where he was weaned of of an SSRI in one month. He started getting windows of the 11th month mark. It may seem daunting but healing IS coming.

 

I’m struggling myself with some weird back issues, sinus problems, everything else, etc. I’ve notIced my patience can be rather thin at times (haven’t we all already suffered enough?) but still going. One day at a time. It will get better. I certainly feels like won’t many times but it will.

[DaveB]

Hey all, quick update. I am doing ok, not better and mornings are still anxiety riddled. Almost 8 months into a hold now, I have spaced my Paxil dose to 20mgs AM and 20mgs PM. Was hoping it would helping the ups and downs, very little difference if any, but it has only been a few days. 

 

Mods still in agreement to keep holding even after all this time? Was it ok to split the one dose into two? I welcome any thoughts, or words on encouragement. You guys are awesome and have been a big part of my world the last year and I am so thankful for you! Been just really busy in my new career so haven’t had a chance to check in much. @brassmonkey @David182 @Gridley @Rosetta @Hazel @RachelSusan @Cheeky @bubble @manymoretodays @Dalalea @Waterfall @JanCarol @Carmie @Rabe I don’t want to forget anyone but you are all SO awesome and have been my rocks!

[RachelSusan]

Ah shoot David, it makes me angry that you still aren't feeling good. I'm angry at the medical system that allowed this to happen to you. I hate that you are going through this.  For what it's worth, it took me a good year and a half until I felt really stable.  I'm just a wee bit over two years in. I did have good periods before that year and a half was up but I never could say that I felt good over all.  I heard of people taking longer and of course those lucky ducks that can go on and off it with nary a problem.  Also I still get a resurgence of symptoms every time I taper. But I guess right about now you would gladly put up with my situation, right? Yes, I am real grateful that I am this far along in the healing process.

 

The mods will advise you but I don't know what else you can do besides hold?  I know when I was in the middle of the worst of it I kept struggling to find the right dosage, believing that a milligram more or a milligram less would finally hit that magic number that would allow me to stop feeling symptomatic.  I never did find that magic number, instead I figured out that the best thing I could do for myself was to be as consistent as possible and wait and wait and wait.

 

I hope stabilization comes as quickly as possible for you. Hang in there my friend.

 

RS

[Rabe]

I too, Dave...but then feeling better could come anytime!!  Think about you so often!!!  Hang in there and take care!!

[Rosetta]

Hugs, Dave.  I'm so impressed that you can work.  Hang in there.  You are going to make it! -Rosetta

[Carmie]

Hi Dave, 

 

It was nice to see you check in again. I’m sorry you’re still struggling so much. It’s great you’ve been able to work though. Wow, you’re doing amazing. 

 

Sometimes our holds feel like they last forever. 

 

I hope that you see improvements soon. This journey definitely isn’t linear. It’s all over the place n one can only take a day at a time. I know it’s frustrating though when you feel like you don’t seem to be moving forward in your tapering. 

 

Here’s to taking a day at a time. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

[brassmonkey]

Hi Dave-- the split dose shouldn't make much difference, but let's give it a few weeks and see how it goes. Things sound like they are settling down nicely which is an excellent sign.

[Hazel]

Hi Dave,

Just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you and hoping things settle down for you very soon. 🤗

[DaveB]

Yikes, so I need some help. I started splitting the doses like I said, when that didn’t seem to help the morning anxiety I decided to try a drop. I went from 40 to 30mgs of Paxil and everything was the same for about a week...then I went to Disneyworld with my family and it was great! No morning anxiety, no real anxiety at all, felt like I was really on to something with the drop. This lasted about 10 days, then things got really bad, really fast. I now am really struggling just to get through my days and I am waking at 6 am with a kind of panic. This is really bad, did I make a huge mistake trying a drop? Why was is so good just last week, and now not. I really need some advice, I am really struggling.

[DaveB]

Really thought I was on to something as those 10 days or normal were so awesome. I honestly just thought the 40mgs of paxil was too much and my body liked the 30 better...now I don’t know what to think or what to do. This is really bad!

[Rosetta]

Dave, 

That was a 25 percent drop.  Far too much.  Am I reading that right? Forty to 30?  You should think about reinstating, but I'm not sure how much.  Ten percent would have been 4 mg.  Mayybe a Mod will say to go back to 40?

[Rabe]

Hi Dave...I would ask the mods for some advice.  That feeling of being SO good happened to me after my rapid taper last September and often with tapers in general, but then I get much worse within bout 2 weeks or so.  That was a fast taper...I know the mods could give you some advice...put one of their names in your message so they see it.

 

[Cheeky]

Hey DaveB,

I really hate that your struggling like this and do understand what your going through. I personally think that the drop by 10mg is wayyyy to much. It’s taken me a good year and a half to get to 30mg and I’ve felt every dam drop. 

I know you want off these drugs but you can’t play around with your nervous system like that, it will make you more sensitive. 

Im sure the mods will give you advice.

hang in there mate xx

[DaveB]

3 hours ago, Cheeky said:

Hey DaveB,

I really hate that your struggling like this and do understand what your going through. I personally think that the drop by 10mg is wayyyy to much. It’s taken me a good year and a half to get to 30mg and I’ve felt every dam drop. 

I know you want off these drugs but you can’t play around with your nervous system like that, it will make you more sensitive. 

Im sure the mods will give you advice.

hang in there mate xx

 

Yeah you and @Rosetta are right, was too big of a drop I am sure. I just dropped from 60 to 40 last November and felt better for it, was hoping the drop from 40 to 30 would be similar. My thinking was my dose was just too much and further stressing out my system. For those 10 days it sure felt like I was right...then...not so much. Maybe my friend @brassmonkey will weigh in on this.

[brassmonkey]

Please reset the game clock to "0".  A 25% drop was way, way too much.  If it were only a couple of days ago you could have gone back to your full dose ans restabilized from there.  Seeing that it's been several weeks you can try a small updose, maybe 2mg.  That should help minimize the symptoms while you go through the stabilization process again.

 

Brassmonkey

[DaveB]

15 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Please reset the game clock to "0".  A 25% drop was way, way too much.  If it were only a couple of days ago you could have gone back to your full dose ans restabilized from there.  Seeing that it's been several weeks you can try a small updose, maybe 2mg.  That should help minimize the symptoms while you go through the stabilization process again.

 

Brassmonkey

 

I am not on liquid or anything so I don’t even know how to get to 32mgs. Is it worth roughing it out for a few weeks to see if my symptoms start to subside and stabilize at this dose. Any idea or theory  why after the 1st week I had such a great 10 day period?

[brassmonkey]

The updose would be to help take the edge off of your symptoms if they are really bad, so it's not necessary.  You'll be toughing it out for a lot more than just several weeks.  This basically puts you back to where in January.  Your body needs to to a lot of adjusting and realigning before it can stabilize again.  No one knows the exact mechanism behind it, but it is quite common to have a fantastic honeymoon period after a big drop, followed by a heavy crash.

[SkyBlue]

1 hour ago, DaveB said:

 

I am not on liquid or anything so I don’t even know how to get to 32mgs. Is it worth roughing it out for a few weeks to see if my symptoms start to subside and stabilize at this dose. Any idea or theory  why after the 1st week I had such a great 10 day period?

 

Hi Dave,

I strongly agree w/what Brass has said above. With many things in life, it is worth "toughing it out," but with psych drugs, that rule *most* unfortunately does not apply.

 

There are ways to get the exact dosage you need; please see this thread for info on tapering Paxil, which has info on getting a precise dosage even if you don't have brand-name liquid Paxil: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/405-tips-for-tapering-off-paxil-paroxetine/

 

As that thread states, it is technically possible to cut 10mgs into four 2.5s, but I had a lot of trouble with this (even using a pill cutter)--best bet might be weighing out the powder or making your own liquid (both are discussed in the thread).

 

[Gridley]

I agree with SkyBlue.  If you choose to use the scale, Brassmonkey used the Gemini-20 scale (available on Amazon) for his entire taper of Paxil, and I'm using it for my Lexapro taper.

[DaveB]

Sounds good thanks guys, maybe I will try an updose, my wife would like to see me go down to 20 as she thinks the Paxil is causing the issues. After this week I don’t think there is anyway I will be going down anytime soon.

[RachelSusan]

Hi Dave,

 

I saw your post and wanted stop by and say hello.  Sorry the drop is causing you problems.  If at all possible please keep us posted on what medication change you make and how you react.  I ask because so many of us care about you. Most of us have been in the exact same place you are in now so we can all relate.  I am hoping for quick stability for you.

 

Oh, one other thing, that honeymoon thing when you first taper followed by a crash is very common. I can't explain it and I hate it.  It's like the drug is cruelly teasing you, then punishing you.

 

RS

[DaveB]

2 hours ago, RachelSusan said:

Hi Dave,

 

I saw your post and wanted stop by and say hello.  Sorry the drop is causing you problems.  If at all possible please keep us posted on what medication change you make and how you react.  I ask because so many of us care about you. Most of us have been in the exact same place you are in now so we can all relate.  I am hoping for quick stability for you.

 

Oh, one other thing, that honeymoon thing when you first taper followed by a crash is very common. I can't explain it and I hate it.  It's like the drug is cruelly teasing you, then punishing you.

 

RS

 

Thank you for the support and kind words. I think I will try to stay at 30 and see how I do. Probably was stupid to drop the way I did, but I hate the idea of going up. Exactly, I had seriously thought the drop had made all the difference and I was finally stable...then BAM!!!

[DaveB]

Ugh...will I ever get better from this? Coming up on two years since my Zoloft CT, no idea it would ever be possible for this to happen. Biggest trial of my life, bar none!

[DaveB]

Still struggling, not sure if it is from the drop from 40 to 30 mgs orif it is from the testosterone shots I have been getting weekly since June. If I am being honest I am pretty sure I was doing much better in March - May before I started the testosterone. Maybe this drop has made it worse? I am SO sick of this process, I need to feel better and I don’t think it will ever happen at this point!

[DaveB]

Monthly Update:

 

Roller coaster continues. I am usually doing just fine at night, but mornings and most of the day until about 5PM can be a struggle. I have gone down to 20MGS of Paxil as I was not stable after so many months, so why not try a lower dose. If I am going to struggle either way, why not do it with less poison in my body. I started getting testosterone injections in June, I am not sure if they have made anxiety worse, but certainly have not made it any better.

 

Symptoms:

 

Anxiety - Still very much a part of my day-to-day life, but as I said, I am always pretty much normal in the evenings. 

 

Inability to concentrate or enjoy things - I can certainly enjoy things, had a good vacation to Disney World last month with the kids, concentration has improved from where it has been as well. 

 

IBS - This is still a little bit of a problem, especially since I dropped from 30 and again to 20.

 

Oily Skin - Dont' notice this anymore.

 

Face Flushing and feeling "hot" - Don't notice this anymore

 

Pins and Needles - Not an issue.

 

Negative Thoughts - Mostly just worry about not making progress and going backwards.

 

Sensitivity to Sound - Gone.

 

Sensitivity to Smell - Gone.

 

Shaking (especially in the hands) - Has come back to a small degree.

 

Burning Eyes - Gone, and was actually a real problem at one point.

 

OCD/Intrusive Thoughts - Not a huge issue. 

[DaveB]

Hmmm, seems like I am talking to myself these days. Hopefully that means my friends are feeling better and not on the site as much anymore.