DaveB: trying to stop a roller coaster year

[Gridley]

3 hours ago, DaveB said:

 Ashwaganda...today I woke up into a nightmare of anxiety that won’t let up. So who knows if I will ever make real progress.

 

I definitely had a paradoxical reaction to Ashwaganda.

 

I, for one, know you will make real progress.

[DaveB]

1 hour ago, Gridley said:

 

I definitely had a paradoxical reaction to Ashwaganda.

 

I, for one, know you will make real progress.

 

Thanks Gridley, it is always good to hear. Really a bad reaction to Ashwagandha? That is disappointing. Everything I have read says it is good to lower cortisol. How long did you take it?

[Rabe]

Hi Dave....I believe you are and that you will...each day is different and not predictable...that much I have learned.  It is not fun...but you are doing this and you are progressing and healing.  And you are not alone!! Take care!

[DaveB]

51 minutes ago, Rabe said:

Hi Dave....I believe you are and that you will...each day is different and not predictable...that much I have learned.  It is not fun...but you are doing this and you are progressing and healing.  And you are not alone!! Take care!

 

Just knowing I am not alone really is a little comforting.

[Rabe]

You aren't alone Dave...none of us are...that is comforting...but if I had a wand I would wave it and have us heal!!!  Blessings!!

[Gridley]

3 hours ago, DaveB said:

How long did you take it?

Around 3 weeks.

[DaveB]

8 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Around 3 weeks.

Really, and it just made you progressively worse?

[Gridley]

Not progressively worse, just anxious instead of calming.

[DaveB]

8 hours ago, Gridley said:

Not progressively worse, just anxious instead of calming.

 

Good to know, I will watch out for that. So today has really been ok, seems I am on an every other day pattern, does that make any sense??

 

Seriously if I go back through the last week or two every other day is manageable followed by a horrific day. Has anyone heard of or experienced anything like that?

[Rabe]

Hi Dave...Sometimes I think it is that when we feel so awful we dont do much, and then when feel better do more which sets us back again maybe?  IDK...but glad to hear that today has been better!!

[Rosetta]

20 hours ago, DaveB said:

So today has really been ok, seems I am on an every other day pattern, does that make any sense??

 

Seriously if I go back through the last week or two every other day is manageable followed by a horrific day. Has anyone heard of or experienced anything like that?

 

I call it yo-yoing.  It's a part this for me.  Can be only hours before there is a swing.  I believe it means you are healing.  This is really great news for you, Dave, if you ask me.  

 

I'm going through yo-yoing right now.  It doesn't scare me this time.  I know it's a part of this.  My brain is adjusting to some change in the number of receptors perhaps and overshooting the target?  That's how I think of it.  Some days my brain gets the formulation right.  I feel like Frankenstein's monster.  I used to get very upset by it, but this time I'm happy about it.  I'm making another shift!!  I may be crying one minute and feeling happiness that I haven't felt in years a few hours later.  The happy feelings are starting to come back and they are bringing with them some extremely sad thoughts.  I've heard that good feelings are the last to return.  When the yo-yoing involves all bad feelings or neutral feelings, it's very confusing, frightening and nerve wracking.  Try to think of it as a sign that you are seeing a good change.

[RachelSusan]

Hi DaveB,

The fact that you have good days is, well good. It's always disappointing to have a bad day after a good one.  Just give it time, eventually you will have all good days.

RS

[DaveB]

On 12/15/2018 at 10:19 AM, Rosetta said:

 

I call it yo-yoing.  It's a part this for me.  Can be only hours before there is a swing.  I believe it means you are healing.  This is really great news for you, Dave, if you ask me.  

 

I'm going through yo-yoing right now.  It doesn't scare me this time.  I know it's a part of this.  My brain is adjusting to some change in the number of receptors perhaps and overshooting the target?  That's how I think of it.  Some days my brain gets the formulation right.  I feel like Frankenstein's monster.  I used to get very upset by it, but this time I'm happy about it.  I'm making another shift!!  I may be crying one minute and feeling happiness that I haven't felt in years a few hours later.  The happy feelings are starting to come back and they are bringing with them some extremely sad thoughts.  I've heard that good feelings are the last to return.  When the yo-yoing involves all bad feelings or neutral feelings, it's very confusing, frightening and nerve wracking.  Try to think of it as a sign that you are seeing a good change.

 

Yeah I think you are right, the yo-yoing May point to healing, I hope so, have been up and down a lot the last 2 days.

 

On 12/15/2018 at 10:35 AM, RachelSusan said:

Hi DaveB,

The fact that you have good days is, well good. It's always disappointing to have a bad day after a good one.  Just give it time, eventually you will have all good days.

RS

 

Thanks Rachel, I hope so. How are you doing, I see you have done a great job at getting your dose low, still feeling stable while you go?

[RachelSusan]

Hi DaveB,

Yes I am feeling stable. The trick for me was finding the right amount to reduce.  At the moment it's around 4% every four weeks, sometimes if I have a symptom I wait six weeks. It's hard to go this slow but I hate the crap feeling. This way it works in the background with not to many problems.  Perhaps when you are feeling better you will join me on the very slow train to freedom. In the mean time, please stand pat and stabilize.  We have got to get you feeling better.

RS

[DaveB]

On 12/16/2018 at 3:06 PM, RachelSusan said:

Hi DaveB,

Yes I am feeling stable. The trick for me was finding the right amount to reduce.  At the moment it's around 4% every four weeks, sometimes if I have a symptom I wait six weeks. It's hard to go this slow but I hate the crap feeling. This way it works in the background with not to many problems.  Perhaps when you are feeling better you will join me on the very slow train to freedom. In the mean time, please stand pat and stabilize.  We have got to get you feeling better.

RS

 

I agree I need to feel better then get off this garbage slowly like you are doing. 

[DaveB]

Wow was reading side effects of Zyprexa and holy crap, why was I ever prescribed this for anxiety? Diabetes and movement disorders (dyskinesia and dystonia) I gotta get off this crap, I am REALLY scared that I have been on this for over a year now. Seriously why this stuff, why wasn’t I prescribed a benzo or something like that instead?

[Rabe]

Hi Dave...your doses are getting low as well....you are getting there and sound pretty good today!  Glad to hear!  Thinking of you and wanted you to know.

[DaveB]

11 hours ago, Rabe said:

Hi Dave...your doses are getting low as well....you are getting there and sound pretty good today!  Glad to hear!  Thinking of you and wanted you to know.

 

Thanks Rabe, I really appreciate it! How are you doing? I have been up and down but I think I am improving.

[DaveB]

Really tough day today, not sure why. I thought the last week I have shown some improvement, today has just been intense anxiety all day!

[Gridley]

DaveB,

 

It's going to be up and down.  That's the way it is.

[Rabe]

Hi Dave...I sure understand...it is so nice to feel better...and then hard when a wave hits again.  

57 minutes ago, DaveB said:

Really tough day today, not sure why. I thought the last week I have shown some improvement, today has just been intense anxiety all day!

Hi Dave...it is so nice to feel better...and then can be discouraging when a wave hits again huh?  But the fact that you are having good times and then not is the waves and windows that lead to healing.  So each wave and each window is a step in the right direction though I'm with you that it sure doesnt feel that way at times!  The anxiety is so hard...but you have made it through these days before and you will get through this one as well....you will!

 

6 hours ago, DaveB said:

Thanks Rabe, I really appreciate it! How are you doing? I have been up and down but I think I am improving.

  Just 6 hours ago you posted this which was when you were feeling better than now....even you thought you were improving!  😃  Another wave doesnt mean you aren't improving...just that your brain is again trying to readjust to the new circumstances r/t to the drugs...trying to put itself back together again.  You are strong and resilient and will get through this day too...I know it!!  Take care.

[Carmie]

Hi Dave, 

 

Yes, the windows and waves pattern shows we are healing. As Gridley said, this is a journey of lots of ups and downs. 

 

We just need to take each moment as it comes and find distractions and use other coping strategies. We are going to have lots of waves in this journey, there is no way around it. It is forward movement though. Each day is a day closer to healing. 

 

Take care, sending hugs🤗

 

[DaveB]

@Gridley @Rabe @Carmie - thanks guys, you made a really tough day bearable with your support. I REALLY appreciate you taking the time to let me know you are there and you care!

[Rosetta]

HI Dave.  Merry Christmas.  Hope you are feeling better now.  -R

[RachelSusan]

DaveB,

 

How are you doing?  I wanted to wish you a Pleasant Holiday. Yep, I'm not sure I should be using Happy Holidays quite yet.  I would settle for just pleasant myself. Whatever you do I hope it is above average. 😀

 

RS

[DaveB]

11 hours ago, Rosetta said:

HI Dave.  Merry Christmas.  Hope you are feeling better now.  -R

 

1 hour ago, RachelSusan said:

DaveB,

 

How are you doing?  I wanted to wish you a Pleasant Holiday. Yep, I'm not sure I should be using Happy Holidays quite yet.  I would settle for just pleasant myself. Whatever you do I hope it is above average. 😀

 

RS

 

You guys are so awesome to think of me! Things are very much up and down, but I would say improved since I quit the testosterone replacement therapy. Hopefully I can hold and stabilize on this low dose and go from there. How are you two doing, I agree pleasant is enough for now! Merry Christmas to all the brave survivors, we will get through this and be better on the other side because of it!

[DaveB]

Well I had a pretty good Christmas Eve, followed up by a disaster Christmas Day. Can’t believe I am another year into this and really no better, I actually think I was better last year. That is disheartening, and makes me wonder if I can ever truly recover from this.

[Tom37]

Dave,

 

Of course you can recover from this. I think though with all your dose changes over the last couple of months you really need to sit tight on current dose and you should begin to stabilise.

 

We both know it will be in weeks and months more than days but it does happen. Doesn’t mean you will be symptom free but you should be consistent in your daily symptoms which is what I’m looking for. I find the ‘unknown’ of tomorrow the hardest to deal with. I’m up and down with symptoms changing by either coming or going. I am lucky to have experienced two almost symptom free windows for a week at a time since holding so hopefully that means I’m on the right track but I question it every day.

 

I know you have gone through a lot over the last year or two but you need to keep strong and keep fighting as you never know.....maybe tomorrow could be a better day?

 

Hang in there!

[DaveB]

On 12/25/2018 at 9:48 PM, Tom37 said:

Dave,

 

Of course you can recover from this. I think though with all your dose changes over the last couple of months you really need to sit tight on current dose and you should begin to stabilise.

 

We both know it will be in weeks and months more than days but it does happen. Doesn’t mean you will be symptom free but you should be consistent in your daily symptoms which is what I’m looking for. I find the ‘unknown’ of tomorrow the hardest to deal with. I’m up and down with symptoms changing by either coming or going. I am lucky to have experienced two almost symptom free windows for a week at a time since holding so hopefully that means I’m on the right track but I question it every day.

 

I know you have gone through a lot over the last year or two but you need to keep strong and keep fighting as you never know.....maybe tomorrow could be a better day?

 

Hang in there!

 

Thanks Tom, I really need the encouragement. Have been very up and down this week. Today is a DOWN day for sure, really struggling. Hoping this all will become bearable at some point!

[Rosetta]

Hi Dave, When in a wave, the mind believes you will never get better.  When in a window, the mind is certain you will get better if the window lasts long enough for the adjustment.  I'm sorry Christmas Day was so hard.  I agree that holding study on your dose is the best idea.  I hope today is better. -R

[DaveB]

36 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Hi Dave, When in a wave, the mind believes you will never get better.  When in a window, the mind is certain you will get better if the window lasts long enough for the adjustment.  I'm sorry Christmas Day was so hard.  I agree that holding study on your dose is the best idea.  I hope today is better. -R

 

Thanks Rosetta. I was doing ok yesterday, not great but managing. Then mid-day I got hit with a really bad wave and now I am really struggling to cope. Like a switch flicked in my brain and everything got really bad. I haven’t done anything different, why would this all the sudden get so bad?

[DaveB]

Maybe Ashwaghanda has kind of turned on me? Maybe just a wave? @brassmonkey do you know anything about Ashwaghanda? Do you think if I just stay at my doses I will eventually stabilize? Looking back, I feel like I may have been getting pretty close to stable in the spring before I started the testosterone and dropping my Paxil dose.

[Gridley]

I had a paradoxical reaction to Ashwaganda--it made me anxious.  

[brassmonkey]

Do a Google search of the site. There's a lot of information.

[Rabe]

Hi Dave...I dont do well with any of those herbs...if you read about them I do think there are reasons they can be an issue for some.  I wanted you to know that I believe you are healing and that you are getting better though understand the feeling of doubting that. Take care of yourself! 

[Rosetta]

9 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

Thanks Rosetta. I was doing ok yesterday, not great but managing. Then mid-day I got hit with a really bad wave and now I am really struggling to cope. Like a switch flicked in my brain and everything got really bad. I haven’t done anything different, why would this all the sudden get so bad?

 

That happens with this completely maddening syndrome.  Often, I seem to discover a lot of healing has occurred after the symptoms have been very bad.  The intense impulse to find "what went wrong" never goes away.  It might fade over time just like all symptoms.  The theory is that symptoms get bad because a change has occurred in the brain and the needed neurotransmitters are not available to accommodate the new situation.  It's quite plausible isn't it?  Nonetheless, we are used to learning from our mistakes, and suddenly feeling much worse drives the mind to analyze, analyze, analyze.  It's usually futile, but your mind will do that anyway.  Try to distract until you feel better, Dave.  These are signs that your neuroplasticity is in action.  That's a gift.  I am still in awe that my brain can heal from this horrible, horrible damage!!  We are very lucky.