DaveB: trying to stop a roller coaster year

[DaveB]

Thanks guys, jury is still out on the Ashwaghanda, but good to know it has caused problems for some. Today was actually a pretty good day, especially because the morning wasn’t looking good.

[Rabe]

@Rosetta  I just wanted to say thank you..I have copied and pasted much of what you wrote about yo young and the brain healing and the need to analyze...I SO need to try to remember that when I fall back, like today. 

Hi Dave, I had a good day yesterday...not so good this afternoon...and like you I am trying to find a reason...food?  My walk?  Did a lot yesterday?  At least its still trying to work!! 🙄

Take care and know I am thinking about you!!

[DaveB]

9 hours ago, Rabe said:

@Rosetta  I just wanted to say thank you..I have copied and pasted much of what you wrote about yo young and the brain healing and the need to analyze...I SO need to try to remember that when I fall back, like today. 

Hi Dave, I had a good day yesterday...not so good this afternoon...and like you I am trying to find a reason...food?  My walk?  Did a lot yesterday?  At least its still trying to work!! 🙄

Take care and know I am thinking about you!!

 

Thanks Rabe! I know it is funny how when things go south, I am constantly trying to figure out why. I have tried to just accept it is the way it is, but it is hard!

[RachelSusan]

Dave,

I think we all try and figure out why things go bad.  For me it's about being able to control a situation.  If I can figure out why something goes south I know to avoid that food, supplement, or whatever again. If I am having a good day and can figure out what I did before it then I believe I can repeat that action and have a good day. Sometimes we can figure out why but other times we just can't. For me it's hard to accept that I can't figure it out. I think we all keep searching for the reason something changes.  You are not alone in that activity.

 

Happy New Year Dave. I think 2019 will be a good year for you.  From what I read you appear to be showing some improved days. I think it will only get better for you.

 

Warm wishes,

Rachel

 

[DaveB]

3 hours ago, RachelSusan said:

Dave,

I think we all try and figure out why things go bad.  For me it's about being able to control a situation.  If I can figure out why something goes south I know to avoid that food, supplement, or whatever again. If I am having a good day and can figure out what I did before it then I believe I can repeat that action and have a good day. Sometimes we can figure out why but other times we just can't. For me it's hard to accept that I can't figure it out. I think we all keep searching for the reason something changes.  You are not alone in that activity.

 

Happy New Year Dave. I think 2019 will be a good year for you.  From what I read you appear to be showing some improved days. I think it will only get better for you.

 

Warm wishes,

Rachel

 

 

Thanks Rachel you are awesome! How have you been feeling? Seems last we talked you were hoping for a pleasant holiday, I hope you got it!

 

Yes it is like I always try to figure it out when things go bad, and sometimes there may be a cause, but other times, not so much. Good to know I am not alone in this often futile exercise.

 

I do have high hopes for 2019, maybe this is the year it starts to “fade to the background” of my life. I have had some improved days so I am trying to hold to that while grinding through the not so good times. Wishing you a Happy 2019 as well!

[RachelSusan]

Thanks Dave. It did work out for me.  I had a pleasant Christmas.  I was on antibiotics and I think they did mess with my body and I felt a little like I was starting withdrawal symptoms but then ***poof****💨 like magic they went away.

 

Just stay the course Dave.  Don't add anything.  Don't take away.  You will get there.  Yes you will. You will. You will. You will. You will. You will. You will.You will. You will. 😀

[DaveB]

16 hours ago, RachelSusan said:

Thanks Dave. It did work out for me.  I had a pleasant Christmas.  I was on antibiotics and I think they did mess with my body and I felt a little like I was starting withdrawal symptoms but then ***poof****💨 like magic they went away.

 

Just stay the course Dave.  Don't add anything.  Don't take away.  You will get there.  Yes you will. You will. You will. You will. You will. You will. You will.You will. You will. 😀

 

Thanks Rachel exactly the reminder I needed! Wish it would come sooner though that is for sure.

[DaveB]

Well back to work after the holiday break. Holidays were really up and down, had a LOT of good moments, but some pretty bad anxiety times as well. 1st day back to work and I am worried that I only improved over the holidays due to lack of work because today is NOT good! High anxiety making it hard to function, just wish I could sometime experience some lasting improvements.

 

Woke at 6:50 AM - mild anxiety

Got up at 7:30 AM - higher anxiety

Took Garden of Life Multivitamin, Vitamin D, Fish Oil, Magnesium and Ashwaghanda.

Meeting at 8:30AM - Anxiety still climbing

 10-11:30AM Tried to relax and lay back down in between meetings. Probably a mistake, anxiety REALLY high.

[DaveB]

Wow, not sure what has caused this today, but this is terrible. Just constant, unrelenting, unbearable anxiety. Could my body really be reacting this badly to simply going back to work? Not sure what to do, I honestly don’t know how much more I can take of this.

[Altostrata]

Hi, Dave, did you overdo any celebrating over the holidays?

 

What is your daily drug schedule now? Please update your signature.

[DaveB]

27 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Hi, Dave, did you overdo any celebrating over the holidays?

 

What is your daily drug schedule now? Please update your signature.

 

Hi Alto, thanks for the reply!

 

No I really didn’t, just had a quiet New Year’s with my wife and kids, I don’t drink. 

 

I take 10mgs of Paxil and 2.5 msg of Zyprexa at night at about 11PM. Made some admittedly too large of drops before settling on this dose of Paxil for the last month and a half.

[Altostrata]

Why do you take the two drugs at the same time?

 

How are you taking 10mg Paxil? Are your tablets or capsules old?

 

Please put ALL your drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php
and copy and paste the results or a link to them in this topic.

[DaveB]

https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=1800-1156,1744-1113

 

No reason for why I take them together. Have always taken my AD at night, even when I was on Zoloft for all those years, and doc said take the Zyprexa at night as well. 

 

I take tablets, they are a month or two old, but that is it.

[DaveB]

29 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Why do you take the two drugs at the same time?

 

How are you taking 10mg Paxil? Are your tablets or capsules old?

 

Please put ALL your drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php
and copy and paste the results or a link to them in this topic.

 

I was also doing testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) that I started in June but discontinued at the start of Decemeber due to the fact I thought it may be exacerbating my anxiety/withdrawal.  

[Altostrata]

Did you feel any different after stopping testosterone? It can take weeks to get out of your system.

 

Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

[DaveB]

11 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Did you feel any different after stopping testosterone? It can take weeks to get out of your system.

 

Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

Unfortunately I haven’t noticed much difference since I stopped the testosterone (for good or bad). 

 

Yes, I am usually worse in the morning and afternoon, and feeling better and less anxiety in the evenings.

[ChessieCat]

19 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

Example:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

[DaveB]

33 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Example:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

4 hours ago, DaveB said:

Well back to work after the holiday break. Holidays were really up and down, had a LOT of good moments, but some pretty bad anxiety times as well. 1st day back to work and I am worried that I only improved over the holidays due to lack of work because today is NOT good! High anxiety making it hard to function, just wish I could sometime experience some lasting improvements.

 

Woke at 6:50 AM - mild anxiety

Got up at 7:30 AM - higher anxiety

Took Garden of Life Multivitamin, Vitamin D, Fish Oil, Magnesium and Ashwaghanda.

Meeting at 8:30AM - Anxiety still climbing

 10-11:30AM Tried to relax and lay back down in between meetings. Probably a mistake, anxiety REALLY high.

 

I understand, as you can see I started it earlier today. I am also having a major issue with premature ejaculation since dropping my dose. I know that is super embarrassing, but it really adds to the feeling of my body being “not well”. @Altostrata is that common in WD or when making a big drop? I just wish I could get to the point where I could say, “definitely healing is happening and I am getting better.” After 2 years I still don’t think I can even say that.

[DaveB]

Honestly had a conversation with my wife last night and I said “I am not where I want to be, but I really like where I am at and the path I am on.” Then today woke up into a nightmare! This up and down is so painful! Starting to feel a little better now that it is getting later in the day, but dreading tomorrow and what it might bring. Does this really get better in time?

[ChessieCat]

42 minutes ago, DaveB said:

I understand, as you can see I started it earlier today.

 

It's better if you post a whole day in one go.  Much easier for the mods.

 

42 minutes ago, DaveB said:

I am also having a major issue with premature ejaculation since dropping my dose. I know that is super embarrassing, but it really adds to the feeling of my body being “not well”.

 

What is helpful in understanding what is happening is that when one thing in your brain is changed it sets off a chain reaction.  Change one thing, then another thing has to be changed etc and so on down the line.  A domino effect.

 

When we were visiting my in-laws many years ago there was a large earth tremor (Newcastle earthquake in NSW Australia) and I broke out in hives.  That is a example of what one added stress caused and very quickly.

 

You also need to look at the big picture and be mindful of the changes you have made in recent months, not just the most recent.

 

1 minute ago, DaveB said:

but dreading tomorrow and what it might bring.

 

You need to be careful not to get caught up with anticipatory anxiety, worrying that something is going to happen.  It just adds stress and then the thing you are worrying about is more likely to happen.

 

Acceptance

 

4 minutes ago, DaveB said:

“I am not where I want to be, but I really like where I am at and the path I am on.”

 

Also instead of comparing how you are feeling now with how you were feeling at your best, compare how you are feeling now with how your were feeling at your worst.

 

[DaveB]

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

 

It's better if you post a whole day in one go.  Much easier for the mods.

 

 

What is helpful in understanding what is happening is that when one thing in your brain is changed it sets off a chain reaction.  Change one thing, then another thing has to be changed etc and so on down the line.  A domino effect.

 

When we were visiting my in-laws many years ago there was a large earth tremor (Newcastle earthquake in NSW Australia) and I broke out in hives.  That is a example of what one added stress caused and very quickly.

 

You also need to look at the big picture and be mindful of the changes you have made in recent months, not just the most recent.

 

 

You need to be careful not to get caught up with anticipatory anxiety, worrying that something is going to happen.  It just adds stress and then the thing you are worrying about is more likely to happen.

 

Acceptance

 

 

Also instead of comparing how you are feeling now with how you were feeling at your best, compare how you are feeling now with how your were feeling at your worst.

 

 

Good to know it is better to do a whole day when keeping a note of times and symptoms. I will wait until tomorrow and finish what I started this morning.

 

This is great stuff Chessie Cat! All stuff I needed to hear and focus on. So would the consensus of the mods be that I should stay doing exactly what I am, make no changes, and this should start to even out? I am glad I stopped the TRT, that was just another variable I didn’t need in all of this.

[Rosetta]

I wanted to chime in and say that sometimes there is a really horrendous day that makes me question whether I'll ever get out of this, but then it's over and there is some improvement the next day.  When I'm in the thick of it or exhausted by the turmoil earlier in the day I need reassurances that this is just WD.  It gets very hard once in a while and then lets up enough that I feel I can go on.  I think that's what is happening to you.  Are you feeling better now that it's evening?

[ChessieCat]

6 minutes ago, DaveB said:

So would the consensus of the mods be that I should stay doing exactly what I am, make no changes, and this should start to even out?

 

We need to see your daily notes.  With those it will be easier to see if there is a pattern.

[DaveB]

7 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

I wanted to chime in and say that sometimes there is a really horrendous day that makes me question whether I'll ever get out of this, but then it's over and there is some improvement the next day.  When I'm in the thick of it or exhausted by the turmoil earlier in the day I need reassurances that this is just WD.  It gets very hard once in a while and then lets up enough that I feel I can go on.  I think that's what is happening to you.  Are you feeling better now that it's evening?

 

Yes, anxiety still coming in waves. Not “shutting off” like it usually does at night, but it is better than this morning and afternoon for sure.

[Rosetta]

You were sounding really positive just a few days ago.  Don't forget that.  The yo-yoing is awful, but it means you are healing.   Maybe the Mods will tell you to make a change based on your symptom pattern, maybe not, but don't forget that you have had good moments lately and they will come again.

[Rabe]

The up and down is so tiring.  Also hard to get a grip on it =...I did it a bit like trying to hold on to the wind...it all seems so elusive.  But they are right...it is the healing process and without it we cant move forward.  Thinking about you lots Dave and hope tomorrow holds some of the warmth you have been feeling on and off lately.

[Rabe]

@ChessieCat I wanted to say thank you for what you posted here...I copied and pasted it to read over and over...very helpful.  Thank you again!  Take care!💜

[Rabe]

@Rosetta Wanted to thank you as well Rosetta...copied yours as well...I need to remember the yo doing.  Thanks much!!💜

[DaveB]

Ok @Altostrata and @ChessieCat here are my notes.

 

Woke at 6:50 AM - mild anxiety

Got up at 7:30 AM - higher anxiety

Took Garden of Life Multivitamin, Vitamin D, Fish Oil, Magnesium and Ashwaghanda.

Meeting at 8:30AM - Anxiety still climbing

 10-11:30AM:Tried to relax and lay back down in between meetings. Probably a mistake, anxiety REALLY high.

11:30 - 1PM - tried to stay busy to keep my mind off the anxiety, working from home so put away laundry and did some things around the house, anxiety really high.

1PM Lunch - unrelenting high anxiety still.

1-3:30PM - Calling new clients, anxiety still very high

3:30 - 9 - Anxiety still tonight to deal with in waves, but more manageable. Anxiety probably peaked at about 1.

9-10:30 - Doing much better, but not completely shut off like most nights, anxiety still hanging around.

10:30 - 10mgs Paxil, 2.5MGs Zyprexa, and bed.

 

6:00AM - Woke to mild anxiety

6-7:30 - Half awake, but anxiety still quite mild.

7:30 - 8:30 - Wake, get ready, drive to work, anxiety still quite mild.

 

I know I don’t get very specific in “symptoms” but my symptom is really just a keyed up feeling in anxiety. When it is bad it feels like my arms and legs are kind of burning, and I get a little nauseous, but it is mostly just high anxiety.

[ChessieCat]

Reminder about Dave's large and fast Paxil reductions:

 

40mg     19 Nov 2017 - 3 Sept 2018

30mg     4 Sept                   25% reduction

20mg     28 Sept                 33% reduction

10mg     7 Nov                    50% reduction

 

To put things into perspective:

 

Calculations for 10% reduction current dose every 4 weeks:

 

dose	start date
40.00	9/3/2018
36.00	10/1/2018
32.40	10/29/2018
29.16	11/26/2018
26.24	12/24/2018

 

Current dose would be:  26.24mg

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by ChessieCat

[DaveB]

Feeling much better today. Crazy how this works. Yesterday was probably my worst day in months, today is about as good as I have ever felt on a work day. Hoping for some stability in this!

[ChessieCat]

Don't overdo it when you are feeling a bit better though.

[DaveB]

19 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Don't overdo it when you are feeling a bit better though.

 

Good advice, sadly I missed it. Not feeling as good today and it could be because I exercised last night. I really like to exercise as I feel SO much better for the few hours after, but it seems I sometimes end up paying for it a bit the next day.

[Rosetta]

Such good news that you swung back to feeling surprisingly better!!  This is evidence of good changes in the brain!  Yes!!  Exhausting, I know, to swing the other way again.  Exhausting.  But it's so encouraging.

[DaveB]

On 1/4/2019 at 12:44 PM, Rosetta said:

Such good news that you swung back to feeling surprisingly better!!  This is evidence of good changes in the brain!  Yes!!  Exhausting, I know, to swing the other way again.  Exhausting.  But it's so encouraging.

 

Thanks Rosetta, it was amazing to have that day filling the one previous. Last few have not been good, but I have been able to manage so far. No where near as bad as Wednesday, that was a crazy bad day for whatever reason.

[DaveB]

On 1/2/2019 at 7:17 PM, ChessieCat said:

 

We need to see your daily notes.  With those it will be easier to see if there is a pattern.

 

 

9:30AM - Wake for the day after tossing and turning with anxiety since about 7.

 

10:30-11:30AM - Exercise at Orangetheory, felt pretty good.

 

11:30AM - 12:30PM -  Take Multivitamin, Fish Oil, Magnesiun, Vitamin D and Ashwaghanda. Feeling pretty good, anxiety low after exercise as usual.

 

12:30 - 4PM - Anxiety coming in waves, sometimes quite strong. Tough but not completely overwhelming.

 

4PM - 7PM - Anxiety still around, but the waves are less intense heading into the evening.

 

7PM - 11PM - Feeling pretty good at this point. Not 100%, but not far off.

 

11PM - 10mgs Paxil, 2.5mgs Zyprexa, and bed.

 

Any thoughts on these two days notes so far?