DaveB: trying to stop a roller coaster year

[DaveB]

So is it the consensus that I have never become stable because I have always added or taken things away? (I.e. testosterone therapy, Paxil fast taper, etc). Keeping things the exact same and letting my body figure it out, it that what we feel is the best course of action at this point?

[DaveB]

12 hours ago, DaveB said:

So is it the consensus that I have never become stable because I have always added or taken things away? (I.e. testosterone therapy, Paxil fast taper, etc). Keeping things the exact same and letting my body figure it out, it that what we feel is the best course of action at this point?

 

Anyone? Or have a screwed enough up that I need more intervention than this?

 

@brassmonkey, @Altostrata @Gridley or @ChessieCat have any thoughts?

 

Woke today at 7AM to really tough anxiety!

[Gridley]

Keeping things the same and letting your body stabilize is the best course of action at this point.  It will likely take several months.

[Altostrata]

15 hours ago, DaveB said:

So is it the consensus that I have never become stable because I have always added or taken things away? (I.e. testosterone therapy, Paxil fast taper, etc). Keeping things the exact same and letting my body figure it out, it that what we feel is the best course of action at this point?

 

Your body needs to adapt to changes, but you also have to observe for a while to see if the change was a good one. If it wasn't, then you can tweak something. This takes patience and discipline.

 

It looks like your system is adapting to the significant decrease in Paxil dosage.

 

I would like to see what the separate effects of Paxil and Zyprexa. They have an interaction that might be affecting your symptom pattern  https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=1744-1113,1800-1156

 

Can you gradually move your Paxil dose up an hour or so every day until you're taking it in the morning? You will need to track your dosing and symptoms, including your sleep pattern, every day.

 

It's possible that taking Paxil earlier will reduce some of the alerting you get during the day. But you will need to observe if it makes you too dopey to work, etc.

[DaveB]

5 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Your body needs to adapt to changes, but you also have to observe for a while to see if the change was a good one. If it wasn't, then you can tweak something. This takes patience and discipline.

 

It looks like your system is adapting to the significant decrease in Paxil dosage.

 

I would like to see what the separate effects of Paxil and Zyprexa. They have an interaction that might be affecting your symptom pattern  https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=1744-1113,1800-1156

 

Can you gradually move your Paxil dose up an hour or so every day until you're taking it in the morning? You will need to track your dosing and symptoms, including your sleep pattern, every day.

 

It's possible that taking Paxil earlier will reduce some of the alerting you get during the day. But you will need to observe if it makes you too dopey to work, etc.

 

Yes I can do that. When I was on 60mgs of Paxil, I was taking it in the AM and I didn’t really see a difference between AM and PM. I just started doing it in the PM for simplicity, vitamins in the AM and Perscription meds in the PM. That was just so I remembered to take it at the same time every day.

 

A really tough day today, 2nd time this week anxiety has been unbearable.

[Altostrata]

Please keep reminding yourself about waves and windows.

[DaveB]

11 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Please keep reminding yourself about waves and windows.

 

I know I am sometimes bad at his. Thanks for the reminder and all your help Alto!

[Tom37]

I’m the same mate....these bad days after good days do your head in and on the bad days hard to believe a good day is around the corner. At least when you do get stable you will be able to draw strength from going through all these bad days. Nothing will faze you.

 

Just keep everything dosage amount wise as you are until the moderators think a change may be required. Can take a while to stabilise especially after lots of recent changes. I’m kind of the opposite in that I’m **** scared to change mine for fear of getting worse.

 

Be gentle on yourself.

[DaveB]

1 minute ago, Tom37 said:

I’m the same mate....these bad days after good days do your head in and on the bad days hard to believe a good day is around the corner. At least when you do get stable you will be able to draw strength from going through all these bad days. Nothing will faze you.

 

Just keep everything dosage amount wise as you are until the moderators think a change may be required. Can take a while to stabilise especially after lots of recent changes. I’m kind of the opposite in that I’m **** scared to change mine for fear of getting worse.

 

Be gentle on yourself.

 

Thanks man! I have followed you a bit and you are a warrior, this stuff is tough enough, add in no sleep and it is a special kind of torture. Thanks for the support, it means a lot.

[DaveB]

Yesterday was actually a pretty good day, was able to work, and while I didn’t feel normal it was manageable. Did some exercise at 7PM and I felt GREAT after, totally normal.

 

Woke today back to some tough anxiety that is not going away. Just trying to get through the day. At some point this gets better right?

[RusTW]

Your doing good Dave.Stay course.yull probably get your evening window.

[DaveB]

14 minutes ago, RusTW said:

Your doing good Dave.Stay course.yull probably get your evening window.

 

I hope so Rus, only thing getting me through the day.

[RachelSusan]

Dave,

From Nov of 2017 to Sept of 2018 you held at 40 mg.  I seem to recall you being more stable last spring, but that is just my recollection, so I am asking you. Was there any time during that period where you were more stable than you are now?

Rachel

[DaveB]

1 hour ago, RachelSusan said:

Dave,

From Nov of 2017 to Sept of 2018 you held at 40 mg.  I seem to recall you being more stable last spring, but that is just my recollection, so I am asking you. Was there any time during that period where you were more stable than you are now?

Rachel

 

Yes, for sure last spring, before I started the testosterone replacement therapy and made the reductions in my Paxil dose. Not sure if that really helps me at this point, but yes, I believe I slowly became more stable last Spring.

[RachelSusan]

I think it does help you.  Now you know for sure that your problems are caused by tapering at a rapid rate and throwing in the Testosterone. I was fearful that perhaps you never started to stabilize, which is why I asked the question. You started to stabilize once and you will do it again. From reading your posts it looks like you are now having a few good days here and there. At first when the withdrawal hit you, this time around, were really hurting, at least that is how your posts sounded to me. What amazes me, at least with my own tapering experience, is how delayed the withdrawal symptoms can be.  Of course I do get small symptoms a week or two after I taper but big withdrawal problems usually show up a month to three months after I taper. Dave, I know you are hurting but it really sounds like your are stabilizing.  I too want off this monster drug, and I am getting there. I know you want off too, and you will get there. For now though, just don't make any changes, hold tight.  Exercise is good but for now perhaps keep it a little more low key than you would like. We are all want you to feel good, and you will.

 

[DaveB]

1 hour ago, RachelSusan said:

I think it does help you.  Now you know for sure that your problems are caused by tapering at a rapid rate and throwing in the Testosterone. I was fearful that perhaps you never started to stabilize, which is why I asked the question. You started to stabilize once and you will do it again. From reading your posts it looks like you are now having a few good days here and there. At first when the withdrawal hit you, this time around, were really hurting, at least that is how your posts sounded to me. What amazes me, at least with my own tapering experience, is how delayed the withdrawal symptoms can be.  Of course I do get small symptoms a week or two after I taper but big withdrawal problems usually show up a month to three months after I taper. Dave, I know you are hurting but it really sounds like your are stabilizing.  I too want off this monster drug, and I am getting there. I know you want off too, and you will get there. For now though, just don't make any changes, hold tight.  Exercise is good but for now perhaps keep it a little more low key than you would like. We are all want you to feel good, and you will.

 

 

Thanks Rachel, you are so awesome to me and so supportive, it is so helpful. Yes I suppose if I started to stabilize once I should be able to again. I was so stupid to try the testosterone replacement while I was still unstable. Not sure what I was thinking. Because of that I made another bad decision to fast taper, and the rest is history. At some point I have to stabilize right? I think my friend @brassmonkey used to say it is “enevitable, but it just takes longer than you want it to.” 

[DaveB]

Tough day today, gave way to a decent night. Here is to hoping for a better tomorrow.

[DaveB]

Woke to EXTREME anxiety today! I am not sure if I can keep living like this. I may have to start a benzo or something, I just keep getting worse and worse every week. Honestly just not sure what to do at this point, feels like there is no hope.

[RachelSusan]

DaveB,

 

Please, if at all possible avoid a Benzo. I know it was offered to me as well when I was going through the thick of it however it only adds another layer to the the problem.  I know what you are going through is awful, but you have to wait it out.  One of the reasons it might be getting worse is that you fast tapered in multiple stages. I think that each stage is hitting at a different time.  The only reason I am commenting on this is because I did something very similar and had similar results.  Don't be hard on yourself, I don't think any of us realized how powerful these drugs really are. I do think if you understand what is going on with you though it does make it less frightening. I know this is probably the worst thing that you have gone through, but if you can just take it one day at a time, get through that day, and live the next, eventually it will get better.  Hang in there.

 

[RachelSusan]

There is hope.  I would suggest you read my thread but it is way to long and way to boring. Just know I was really awful.  Really really awful. I can't even begin to describe it. Awful on so many levels. I was hopeless.  I am living a fairly normal life now. Some things are different. I'm still tapering and still sensitive to medications and other things, but life is good.  Just get through today, and then do it again tomorrow. Get through tomorrow, and so on.  It will improve.

[RusTW]

3 hours ago, DaveB said:

Woke to EXTREME anxiety today! I am not sure if I can keep living like this. I may have to start a benzo or something, I just keep getting worse and worse every week. Honestly just not sure what to do at this point, feels like there is no hope.

Dave a benzo might make you worse.I tried 2mg of valium and paid for it for 10 days.plus you will doubt your recovery because you added a new disaster drug to postpone and cover symptoms.You are improving dont mess that up.yull b ok .ride it out to get better 

[DaveB]

2 hours ago, RachelSusan said:

There is hope.  I would suggest you read my thread but it is way to long and way to boring. Just know I was really awful.  Really really awful. I can't even begin to describe it. Awful on so many levels. I was hopeless.  I am living a fairly normal life now. Some things are different. I'm still tapering and still sensitive to medications and other things, but life is good.  Just get through today, and then do it again tomorrow. Get through tomorrow, and so on.  It will improve.

 

Thanks, just two really bad days in a row, making things tough!

 

1 hour ago, RusTW said:

Dave a benzo might make you worse.I tried 2mg of valium and paid for it for 10 days.plus you will doubt your recovery because you added a new disaster drug to postpone and cover symptoms.You are improving dont mess that up.yull b ok .ride it out to get better 

 

I know a Benzo is probably not the answer, I just feel pretty demoralized at this point!

[RusTW]

Just now, DaveB said:

 

Thanks, just two really bad days in a row, making things tough!

 

 

I know a Benzo is probably not the answer, I just feel pretty demoralized at this point!

focus on the positives-neuroplasticity exercises-art-meditation-exercise-diet-faith and staying busy .fill your time with recovery thoughts.some people get waved out for long periods with no windows.

[DaveB]

1 minute ago, RusTW said:

some people get waved out for long periods with no windows.

 

This is what I fear I am headed towards. Windows getting shorter and less clear the last few weeks. Waves more often and more intense.

[RusTW]

Just now, DaveB said:

 

This is what I fear I am headed towards. Windows getting shorter and less clear the last few weeks. Waves more often and more intense.

anticipatory anxiety thats building your fears causing the experience to b worse.whatever comes our way we can deal with it then.im learning this too my friend.my waves are intense also.the fear makes them worse and maybe hindering windows by prolonging the waves because of doubt.its a shift in thinking when my windows are beginning.

[ChessieCat]

12 minutes ago, DaveB said:

Thanks, just two really bad days in a row, making things tough!

 

It seems that generally we improve at a gradual rate, so wit can take a little while for us to realise that we have improved.  On the other hand when they worsen, they seem to worse in one go.  I think this in itself can make it seem worse, because of the contrast between being improved and the worsening.

 

14 minutes ago, DaveB said:

I know a Benzo is probably not the answer

 

I think you know for certain that a benzo is not the answer.  I think it is better for your peace of mind to accept that fact.  Then there will be less "fighting" going on in your brain.  Sometimes we just need to sit with the symptoms and get through them as best we can.  You've done a lot of chopping and changing and it hasn't worked before.  If you can start accepting that it is what it is at this time, you can be less stressed which will allow the brain to concentrate on adapting, instead of dealing with the stress you are adding to yourself.

[DaveB]

41 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

I think you know for certain that a benzo is not the answer.  I think it is better for your peace of mind to accept that fact.  Then there will be less "fighting" going on in your brain.  Sometimes we just need to sit with the symptoms and get through them as best we can.  You've done a lot of chopping and changing and it hasn't worked before.  If you can start accepting that it is what it is at this time, you can be less stressed which will allow the brain to concentrate on adapting, instead of dealing with the stress you are adding to yourself.

 

I know, when things are bad I just want to fix them, find out what I did wrong, what is going on, and fix it. It has been tough to try to learn to just sit with it and let it be what it will be, especially when the anxiety is so strong.

[Happy2Heal]

On 1/8/2019 at 12:55 PM, DaveB said:

At some point this gets better right?

 

 

yes it does!!

notice all the things that have been gradually improving, even if just a wee bit.

 

when you have a bad day or two, remind yourself that the symptoms are signs that your brain is doing the work of healing, as bad as it feels, it's a good thing (yeh ironic, eh?)

 

 

3 hours ago, DaveB said:

I just want to fix them, find out what I did wrong, what is going on, and fix it.

 

oh I hear you! I'm a 'fixer' too 

but this is one of those things that TIME fixes the best

 

 

you are going to be ok!! 

 

 

[DaveB]

1 hour ago, Happy2Heal said:

 

 

yes it does!!

notice all the things that have been gradually improving, even if just a wee bit.

 

when you have a bad day or two, remind yourself that the symptoms are signs that your brain is doing the work of healing, as bad as it feels, it's a good thing (yeh ironic, eh?)

 

 

 

oh I hear you! I'm a 'fixer' too 

but this is one of those things that TIME fixes the best

 

 

you are going to be ok!! 

 

 

 

Thanks you so much, seriously the outpouring of support and care on this site is honestly amazing! I am feeling MUCH better now in the evening. At least I can usually count on that. That is tough though as I usually feel the worst at work when I need to be on my A-game. Oh well I will take the break anytime I can, and seriously to all who posted here today THANK YOU, I don’t think I could have made it through the day without you, I am serious!

[Rosetta]

(((Dave)))

[SkyStreamer]

Hi DaveB!

 

I only joined this site within the last couple of weeks. 

 

I sympathize with the struggle you're going through. A few months ago, I tapered too much of my dose (before I came across SA) and ended up getting very horrible withdrawal symptoms. Terrifying nightmares. Suffocating anxiety and fear. Panic attacks. Everything else that comes with these awful waves. Gratefully, I am now beginning to stabilize. 

 

Two things I learned from my experience. The first was that windows always follow waves, and that sometimes windows come shortly after a peak in a wave. For instance, in my situation, I experienced a strong wave in the last two weeks. It was so bad that I thought about reinstating a bit of my reduced dose. In the end, I decided to push through without reinstating. Thankfully, a few days later, my state improved and I am now beginning to stabilize.

 

The second thing I learned is that "acceptance" is probably the best tool for dealing with the waves. WD symptoms carry their own degree of internal suffering. But, we add another layer of unnecessary suffering on top of that when we decide to resist whatever is happening to us at any given moment. Whenever I try and accept my WD symptoms as they are, from moment to moment, I find that the intensity of my suffering usually decreases by 20-50%.

 

Here's a good video about Acceptance by Eckhart Tolle: https://bit.ly/2QtwjFN. 

 

And, here's two guided relaxation meditations by Michael Sealey, which have helped me tremendously through some very tough moments: https://bit.ly/1N1eUuJ & https://bit.ly/2QBhhhs

 

Maybe these videos can provide you with some support and encouragement when things get challenging. They're also good to watch/listen to when things are a little more calm as well. They'll be easier to process.

 

Hope you have a good week! Keep persevering!

 

 

[DaveB]

Response to SkyStreamer's post:

 

Thanks, this is great advice and good stuff, I really appreciate it!

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by ChessieCat
removed quote and added note

[Carmie]

Hi Dave, 

 

I’m so glad you feel much better in the evening. It’s something to look forward to, isn’t it? Sending hugs🤗

[DaveB]

Morning has been a little tough today, but better than yesterday. We will see how the day goes.

[Rosetta]

Thinking of you.  I hope your day is better than yesterday.

[DaveB]

58 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Thinking of you.  I hope your day is better than yesterday.

 

Thanks Rosetta, how are you doing?